China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 29 Dec 2011 18:19

krishnan wrote:What if the ring doesnt come off???

If it does not come off at all the grenade won't explode. But if it is just a bit tight the throw will be off. To me the design looks stupid. For a grenade that is. I have seen similar designs on rattles for babies and thought they were good. Takes "Made in China" to a new level.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 29 Dec 2011 18:57

the more traditional pineapple grenade seems better able to resist such incidents. no holding onto cords and praying that it comes off properly...most of the world uses this system
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M67_grenade

member_20021 · Post by **member_20021** » 29 Dec 2011 19:41

The first video looks like the military training for college students, based on the uniforms they wore. The instructor is a military officer, while the trainee is college student. All new college students start their college life with military training of 4 weeks. They learn about civil defense against nuclear, chemical and biological warfare. They are also taught to use light weapons, including automatic rifle and hand grenade. At the end of training, the students have excises with live ammunition. The stick design of hand grenades gives the users alot more control over the throwing than the pineapple one. It allows the grenade be thrown farther with better targeting accuracy. Just like any sports, it is a skill to have, calling for training and lots of practices to do it well. And some people do better than others. The stick hand grenades can be bundled together to attack bunkers and light armed vehicles. They can also be used with grenade launcher for longer distance. I found a common demeanor in this forum is ignorant arrogance. Sometime absurd to the extent not even funny. Indeed, stupid is as stupid does.

member_20021 · Post by **member_20021** » 29 Dec 2011 19:52

abhischekcc wrote:Anybody of you know mandarin or planning to take lessons?

Perhaps no need for you guys, as you all speak English which more and more Chinese speakers are learning as a foreign language.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 29 Dec 2011 20:22

giving 4 week trainee types access to live grenades does not sound too bright to me. even in our NCC, they train with lee enfield 303 and other rifles but I have never heard of people tossing around live grenades as part of civil defence training...harks back to Mao's people's war concept against a massed soviet armour attack on the north chinese plain and the people's militia resistance that would be needed to back the PLA.

I am surprised they are still continueing on it in this day when the PLA has long moved to new doctrines and soviet threat has vanished

member_20067 · Post by **member_20067** » 29 Dec 2011 20:24

Jimi wrote:The first video looks like the military training for college students, based on the uniforms they wore. The instructor is a military officer, while the trainee is college student. All new college students start their college life with military training of 4 weeks. They learn about civil defense against nuclear, chemical and biological warfare. They are also taught to use light weapons, including automatic rifle and hand grenade. At the end of training, the students have excises with live ammunition. The stick design of hand grenades gives the users alot more control over the throwing than the pineapple one. It allows the grenade be thrown farther with better targeting accuracy. Just like any sports, it is a skill to have, calling for training and lots of practices to do it well. And some people do better than others. The stick hand grenades can be bundled together to attack bunkers and light armed vehicles. They can also be used with grenade launcher for longer distance. I found a common demeanor in this forum is ignorant arrogance. Sometime absurd to the extent not even funny. Indeed, stupid is as stupid does.

I hope this supposed student training someday can be useful in removing the communist regime ...

member_20067 · Post by **member_20067** » 29 Dec 2011 20:29

Jimi wrote:
abhischekcc wrote:Anybody of you know mandarin or planning to take lessons?
Perhaps no need for you guys, as you all speak English which more and more Chinese speakers are learning as a foreign language.

Learning a language from school system can never be compared with learning a foreign language while being adult... [OT]

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 29 Dec 2011 20:57

My personal feeling is that a lot more Indians should be learning Mandarin.

PrasadZ · Post by **PrasadZ** » 29 Dec 2011 21:58

Is this a poll? Am learning mandarin on my own. Not easy to pick up a new language at my age but i find the girls on mtv china are quite motivating .. lol

jai · Post by **jai** » 29 Dec 2011 22:17

shiv wrote:My personal feeling is that a lot more Indians should be learning Mandarin.

Absolutely, completely agree. Need of the hour are Aliancefrancaise and Max Muller equivalents for Chinese. I think only JNU have a Chinese course amongst the universities that's considered decent.

I learnt a few years back that Universities in Egypt teach Hebrew - and its very popular amongst the students. There is learning to be made from this model.

The more we know and learn the better !! The def academies like nda do offer Chinese but given the difficulty few choose it. I tried learning it a few years back but lost steam midway...

member_20021 · Post by **member_20021** » 29 Dec 2011 23:14

Prithwiraj wrote:I hope this supposed student training someday can be useful in removing the communist regime ...

If the political system were "Communism" in China, China has been bringing alots of good things to it. If it were "Democracy" in India, then India gives it a bad name. You guys have been hoping for alot, and must be used to the disappointment for not getting what you wished. Continue on your daydreaming, which is the few freedom your democraZy brings to you. Enjoy.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 29 Dec 2011 23:20

Jimi wrote:You have alot to hope for and must be used to the disappointment. Continue your daydreaming, which is the few freedom your democraZy brings to you. Enjoy.

Thanks mate! In China even to dream of having a second child you need government permit!

A small but vocal minority in China risk jobs and savings to have a forbidden second child

ZHUJI, China — Seven months pregnant, Wu Weiping sneaked out early in the morning carrying a shoulder bag with some clothes, her laptop and a knife.

“It’s good for me I wasn’t caught, but it’s lucky for them too,” said Wu, 35, who feared that family planning officials were going to drag her to the hospital for a forced abortion. “I was going to fight to the death if they found me.”

member_20067 · Post by **member_20067** » 29 Dec 2011 23:39

Jimi wrote:
Prithwiraj wrote:I hope this supposed student training someday can be useful in removing the communist regime ...
If the political system were "Communism" in China, China has been bringing alots of good things to it. If it were "Democracy" in India, then India gives it a bad name. You guys have been hoping for alot, and must be used to the disappointment for not getting what you wished. Continue on your daydreaming, which is the few freedom your democraZy brings to you. Enjoy.

wish I could have shared your optimism about China.. !! a bunch of brain-washed zombies.. at-least we have the right to gather and launch of movement against corruption... what your country has to offer.. a more sophisticated North Korean version of a country and nothing else..

and seriously .. Jimi..? is that your name..? Lolz....reminded me of a blockbuster hindi song

Don · Post by **Don** » 30 Dec 2011 00:38

Jimi wrote:
Prithwiraj wrote:I hope this supposed student training someday can be useful in removing the communist regime ...
If the political system were "Communism" in China, China has been bringing alots of good things to it. If it were "Democracy" in India, then India gives it a bad name. You guys have been hoping for alot, and must be used to the disappointment for not getting what you wished. Continue on your daydreaming, which is the few freedom your democraZy brings to you. Enjoy.

Why do you want to come here and make trouble ? If you are not interested in respectable discussion then why waste your time. You just going to end up trading insults. Don't you have better things to do ? This is coming from a non Indian.

member_20021 · Post by **member_20021** » 30 Dec 2011 03:06

Do people here want truth and reason? Respects are earned, and fairly traded. This is coming from a Chinese who want to let know his side of stories and perspective.

member_21997 · Post by **member_21997** » 30 Dec 2011 04:19

Jimi wrote:
Prithwiraj wrote:I hope this supposed student training someday can be useful in removing the communist regime ...
If the political system were "Communism" in China, China has been bringing alots of good things to it. If it were "Democracy" in India, then India gives it a bad name. You guys have been hoping for alot, and must be used to the disappointment for not getting what you wished. Continue on your daydreaming, which is the few freedom your democraZy brings to you. Enjoy.

Jimi - keep up the good work of Communism in China... Actually its so nice that all those who can are busy running away to US . Never to go back. With aover a container load comming in through each port in US

jai · Post by **jai** » 30 Dec 2011 10:19

Jimi wrote:Do people here want truth and reason? Respects are earned, and fairly traded. This is coming from a Chinese who want to let know his side of stories and perspective.

Ok, let's hear some Truths about China starting with Tienmen square, or is that not true ? What are the things that make you proud ? And truthfully what are things that don't make you proud ? Let's have your fair stories and perspective.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 30 Dec 2011 10:20

Jimi wrote:Do people here want truth and reason? Respects are earned, and fairly traded. This is coming from a Chinese who want to let know his side of stories and perspective.

Jimi you are a fun person to have here.

This is what you said earlier

Jimi wrote:. All new college students start their college life with military training of 4 weeks. They learn about civil defense against nuclear, chemical and biological warfare. They are also taught to use light weapons, including automatic rifle and hand grenade. At the end of training, the students have excises with live ammunition. The stick design of hand grenades gives the users alot more control over the throwing than the pineapple one. It allows the grenade be thrown farther with better targeting accuracy. Just like any sports, it is a skill to have, calling for training and lots of practices to do it well.

I would like to hear some truth and reason.

You say all college students have 4 weeks military training including " civil defense against nuclear, chemical and biological warfare. They are also taught to use light weapons, including automatic rifle and hand grenade."

You also said

"Just like any sports, it is a skill to have, calling for training and lots of practices "

Does the benevolent and efficient communist government of China feel that military training is "just like sport"? Sport requires training for a lot longer than four weeks. How come college students get only 4 weeks training in this sport? Or does the wise and wonderful communist government of China feel that four weeks training is enough for "lots of practice". Maybe the Chinese military also get four weeks training because it is "lots of practice" like college sport in China

Are these college students joining college to study how to fire guns and throw grenades? Or are the colleges meant to teach something else? Once again the "four week problem". Do the students go to college only for four weeks? India is more inefficient. Students in India need to stay in college for years, but maybe Indians are slow learners. Democracy is bad. I wish we could give students lots of practice throwing grenades in four weeks and call it sport. Or college education. < sigh >

The other thing is about sports. is throwing grenades the only sport that Chinese college students like? Or the only college course available? I mean what if the student likes Ikebana or Origami?

After the Chinese children get plenty of four weeks practice what do they become? Engineers? Communist party workers? Generals who advise sweetest friend and ally Pakistan on education and culture? But in Pakistan grenade throwing is taught at school level so they are a little ahead. But they are neither communist like China nor democracy like India.

Christopher Sidor · Post by **Christopher Sidor** » 30 Dec 2011 11:35

Jimi wrote:Do people here want truth and reason? Respects are earned, and fairly traded. This is coming from a Chinese who want to let know his side of stories and perspective.

Jimi you are more than welcome to share your story and perspective. It will be good to hear what chinese think and go through. Many of us want to hear your view.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 30 Dec 2011 14:41

Jimi wrote:Do people here want truth and reason? Respects are earned, and fairly traded. This is coming from a Chinese who want to let know his side of stories and perspective.

Jimi, what are your views on proliferation of nuclear tech. to pakistan?

Is it respectful to give nuclear tech to a country infamous for terrorism?

What is your side of perspective on terrorism emanating from pakistan and giving nuclear tech to pakistan?

member_20021 · Post by **member_20021** » 31 Dec 2011 07:43

Christopher Sidor wrote:Jimi you are more than welcome to share your story and perspective. It will be good to hear what chinese think and go through. Many of us want to hear your view.

Thank you, and I am glad to share.
I made quite a few comments mostly following the thread "India-China News and Discussion" (http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... f=1&t=6204).
Happy new year.

member_20021 · Post by **member_20021** » 31 Dec 2011 07:56

shiv wrote:military training is "just like sport"?

Do javelin-throwing, disc-throwing, boxing, fencing, shooting etc have military origins? Why is there "Military World Games" in which India is also a participant? If javelin-throwing is sport, why not hand-grenade throwing? For a man of advanced age like you, the question is just an indication of lacking common sense.

Selamat Pagi · Post by **Selamat Pagi** » 31 Dec 2011 09:37

jai wrote:
Jimi wrote:Do people here want truth and reason? Respects are earned, and fairly traded. This is coming from a Chinese who want to let know his side of stories and perspective.
Ok, let's hear some Truths about China starting with Tienmen square, or is that not true ? .

Truth about TAM
Noone died at the square. Students negociated a safe passage out.
All in about 200 to 300 people died including soldiers at a different location.
Few student died as most that died were armed workers manning the roadblocks leading to the square.
Some innocent people were killed in the cross fire.

These were based on western journalists that were actually at the square and Student leader that were actually at the square. US embassy papers that were declassified in 2004 also match closely what China reported. Mother of TAM that research into student death also could not find evidence of 3000 students dead.

Source for the 3000 killed and run over by tanks as they were sleeping were from Student leader Chai Ling that admited she was not at the square and a British reportor (Forgot his name) that was not at the square (20 years later he apologised for "giving the wrong impresion").

PBS progam The Tankman also corrected most of the misconception. Wikileak recently also reported on one died at the square.

member_21997 · Post by **member_21997** » 31 Dec 2011 10:28

Jimi wrote:
shiv wrote:military training is "just like sport"?
Do javelin-throwing, disc-throwing, boxing, fencing, shooting etc have military origins? Why is there "Military World Games" in which India is also a participant? If javelin-throwing is sport, why not hand-grenade throwing? For a man of advanced age like you, the question is just an indication of lacking common sense.

and I am sure that no country (except for china) had a mandatory 4 week capsule training in school for javelin-throwing or disc-throwing in medieval period !!!

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 31 Dec 2011 10:40

Jimi wrote:
shiv wrote:military training is "just like sport"?
Do javelin-throwing, disc-throwing, boxing, fencing, shooting etc have military origins? Why is there "Military World Games" in which India is also a participant? If javelin-throwing is sport, why not hand-grenade throwing? For a man of advanced age like you, the question is just an indication of lacking common sense.

Thank you. I had forgotten. But 4 weeks is hardly enough practice is it? And why all college students? I ask this question because young people can be fooled easily by old men. They might think that military training gives them power, while all that it is doing is indoctrinating those young people into a military style thinking where they believe that the old commie leader is correct. And those who have freedom like we have in my country know that all students do not like military training. But I am certain they are not allowed to protest in China. In fact one of those videos shows a really scared young boy.

Your nation too is following your old granddaddy leaders believing that it is necessary for a couple to have only one child, and that it is good for all college students to have 4 week military training throwing live grenades rather than throwing a javelin like the rest of the world does, or that permits are essential for travelling from one part of your own country to another. Your senile old leaders have hoodwinked you into believing that all this rubbish is necessary and good.

Your freedom to call someone an old man exists only on Bharat Rakshak forums. But your senile grand-daddys of China who have young people like you by the balls get only an obsequious salute from you. You are a mental slave of the communist party of China. And you don't even know it.

You idea of the truth is what your communist party teaches you and your lack of answers is covered up by saying "X is old. Y is Stupid. Z is foolish" When I learned history as a child I was taught of a China full of civilised and intelligent people. Now I know that communism has successfully converted that China into a bunch of witless spokespeople for the communist party like you - and you don't even have the pride to use your Chinese name.

member_20021 · Post by **member_20021** » 31 Dec 2011 12:04

shiv wrote: Thank you. I had forgotten.

You do not have to thank me; I was just telling you the truth and reason.

shiv wrote:you don't even have the pride to use your Chinese name.

What? A guy who is functionally illiterate, in Chinese language, telling a Chinese native that Jimi is not a Chinese name? This is a typical case of ignorant arrogance I was talking about you guys. In the holiday’s spirit, let me teach you, Ji-mi are 吉觅 in Chinese character, which mean “searching prosperity”. Find a Chinese keyboard, and key in "ji", the logogram 吉 will pop out; and "mi", 觅, likewise. It is so laughable that I would name this the best laugh of the year 2011. I am sure it will stick, unless you come up with more in a couple of hours. Hurry up to beat the time.

Don · Post by **Don** » 31 Dec 2011 12:19

Selamat Pagi wrote:
Truth about TAM
Noone died at the square. Students negociated a safe passage out.
All in about 200 to 300 people died including soldiers at a different location.
Few student died as most that died were armed workers manning the roadblocks leading to the square.
Some innocent people were killed in the cross fire.

These were based on western journalists that were actually at the square and Student leader that were actually at the square. US embassy papers that were declassified in 2004 also match closely what China reported. Mother of TAM that research into student death also could not find evidence of 3000 students dead.

Source for the 3000 killed and run over by tanks as they were sleeping were from Student leader Chai Ling that admited she was not at the square and a British reportor (Forgot his name) that was not at the square (20 years later he apologised for "giving the wrong impresion").

PBS progam The Tankman also corrected most of the misconception. Wikileak recently also reported on one died at the square.

Hey Selamat Pagi apa Kabar ?

Brando · Post by **Brando** » 31 Dec 2011 12:39

Jimi wrote: If the political system were "Communism" in China, China has been bringing alots of good things to it. If it were "Democracy" in India, then India gives it a bad name. You guys have been hoping for alot, and must be used to the disappointment for not getting what you wished. Continue on your daydreaming, which is the few freedom your democraZy brings to you. Enjoy.

It's good that you are defending your country and I think you are defending Communism simply because that is what your country has, not because you consider it to be the best solution.

But your idea of "brining a lots of good things" and what Indian's idea of "bringing a lot of good things" is not the same. People in China may be proud that there are tall buildings and large superhighways in Shanghai but that is not considered "good things" in India if it means thousands of people had to be made homeless, had to be forcibly evicted from their homes and made to accept government compensation.

In India, our system might not be as efficient, as fast or as smooth as the Chinese Communist system but it is a system that takes the welfare of the majority into consideration than only economic development. Look at China today, the fast cars, the tall buildings, the Western infrastructure - has it made the Chinese common people more satisfied ? People still work 12 hours a day, the average farmer cannot buy a apartment in Shanghai even if has money, the taxi drivers 10 years ago are still taxi drivers and the Communist Party leaders who were rich and powerful 20 years ago are still rich and powerful today. How many Tibetans, Uzbeks, Mongols or other minorities in China have risen to top PLA positions or top civilian posts ? These considerations are important to Indians - more important than building the second tallest building in the world or the fastest train in the world or building space modules.

The difference between America and China is that America has risen to the top by preserving the individual freedoms and liberties that it was founded on while China has risen by ignoring them. Chinese students who come to the United States realize this truth - maybe one day, you will realize that "greatness" comes more from the kind of society you build than the kind of cities you build.

Don · Post by **Don** » 31 Dec 2011 13:18

Brando wrote:
Jimi wrote: If the political system were "Communism" in China, China has been bringing alots of good things to it. If it were "Democracy" in India, then India gives it a bad name. You guys have been hoping for alot, and must be used to the disappointment for not getting what you wished. Continue on your daydreaming, which is the few freedom your democraZy brings to you. Enjoy.
It's good that you are defending your country and I think you are defending Communism simply because that is what your country has, not because you consider it to be the best solution.

But your idea of "brining a lots of good things" and what Indian's idea of "bringing a lot of good things" is not the same. People in China may be proud that there are tall buildings and large superhighways in Shanghai but that is not considered "good things" in India if it means thousands of people had to be made homeless, had to be forcibly evicted from their homes and made to accept government compensation.

In India, our system might not be as efficient, as fast or as smooth as the Chinese Communist system but it is a system that takes the welfare of the majority into consideration than only economic development. Look at China today, the fast cars, the tall buildings, the Western infrastructure - has it made the Chinese common people more satisfied ? People still work 12 hours a day, the average farmer cannot buy a apartment in Shanghai even if has money, the taxi drivers 10 years ago are still taxi drivers and the Communist Party leaders who were rich and powerful 20 years ago are still rich and powerful today. How many Tibetans, Uzbeks, Mongols or other minorities in China have risen to top PLA positions or top civilian posts ? These considerations are important to Indians - more important than building the second tallest building in the world or the fastest train in the world or building space modules.

The difference between America and China is that America has risen to the top by preserving the individual freedoms and liberties that it was founded on while China has risen by ignoring them. Chinese students who come to the United States realize this truth - maybe one day, you will realize that "greatness" comes more from the kind of society you build than the kind of cities you build.

I am not a big fan of Communism. I think its dead ideology. However, you must appreciate how the government of CHina has lifted millions out of poverty. Regardless of cities their the people are better educated, have better standard of living, and better future. Compared that to India where they have worse malnutrition than sub Saharan Africa and 42 percent still lives below poverty line. I think freedoom or democracy rings hollow when a government fails to provided even basic necessaties to large number of its population.

You also a talk about minorities in China. Every country have their own problems. How about oppression of the Dalits in your society. How about the Sikhs massacere at the Golden temple and the one after Indira Gandhi was assisinated where tens of thousands were lynched. HOw about the riots agaisnt the Muslims in Gujarat where numerous people were burned, raped and killed. You also have problem with numerous regional independent movement but that is not unique for a big country like India. The point is every country have its own problems.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 31 Dec 2011 13:50

Jimi wrote: You do not have to thank me; I was just telling you the truth and reason.

Ah ! Ji Mi? Not Jimi which is a "I am only slightly ashamed of my name" version. Sounds Anglo Saxon enough if you remove the space.

Your communist party bosses have taught you rhetoric well. But they have not taught you how to answer questions truthfully.

Why are college students in China given 4 weeks of military training that includes the throwing of cheap quality live Chinese made grenades "for sports"?

4 weeks discounting vacations means that 10% of the college academic year is wasted on indoctrinating teenagers into the communist party line of thinking - military first. Those poor Chinese children will forever be scared of the tinpot ChiCom party official who oversees their training and spend their lives saluting the Commie party representative and taking rhetoric like you and imagining it is "truth and reason". Dung beetles think dung is food, but not for humans. You think what your bosses tell you is truth. But not for free thinking humans whom you are meeting for the first time here.. Only commie robots toe the party line like you do comrade. Your truth and reason has spoken only about my age. But what about this "sporting" military training with live grenades instead of javelins? What do your party bosses tell you to write here in the name of truth and reason? Or is that a more difficult question than my age which is easy to answer. No ChiCom party permission required to speak about me. Permission required to talk sense about China only eh Ji Mi?

Maybe you have asked a higher official for advice on how to answer the college grenade question? What did they say?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 31 Dec 2011 14:15

I believe some form of compulsory political education of college students was introduced after tiananmen sq. not sure if its still in force or relaxed later.

Don · Post by **Don** » 31 Dec 2011 15:34

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/12/ ... AM20111229

New satellites to extend China's military reach

By David Lague
HONG KONG | Thu Dec 29, 2011 8:29am EST

(Reuters) - China this week reached a milestone in its drive to master the military use of space with the launch of trials for its Beidou satellite global positioning network, a move that will bring it one step closer to matching U.S. space capabilities.

If Beijing can successfully deploy the full 35 satellites planned for the Beidou network on schedule by 2020, its military will be free of its current dependence for navigation on the U.S. global positioning network (GPS) signals and Russia's similar GLONASS system.

And, unlike the less accurate civilian versions of GPS and GLONASS available to the People's Liberation Army (PLA), this network will give China the accuracy to guide missiles, smart munitions and other weapons.

"This will allow a big jump in the precision attack capability of the PLA," said Andrei Chang, a Hong Kong-based analyst of the Chinese military and editor of Kanwa Asian Defense magazine.

China has launched 10 Beidou satellites and plans to launch six more by the end of next year, according to the China Satellite Navigation Management Office.

Chinese and foreign military experts say the PLA's General Staff Department and General Armaments Department closely coordinate and support all of China's space programs within the sprawling science and aerospace bureaucracy.

As part of this system, the Beidou, or "Big Dipper," network will have an important military role alongside the country's rapidly expanding network of surveillance, imaging and remote sensing satellites.

China routinely denies having military ambitions in space.

Defense Ministry spokesman Yang Yujun Wednesday dismissed fears the Beidou network would pose a military threat, noting that all international satellite navigation systems are designed for dual civilian and military use.

CATCHING UP WITH THE U.S.

China accelerated its military satellite research and development after PLA commanders found they were unable to track two U.S. aircraft carrier battle groups deployed in 1996 to the Taiwan Strait at a time of high tension between the island and the mainland, analysts say.

The effort received a further boost when it was shown how crucial satellite networks were in the 1991 Gulf War, the 1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia and the 2003 invasion of Iraq.

While China still lags the United States and Russia in overall space technology, over the last decade it has rapidly become a state-of-the-art competitor in space-based surveillance after deploying a range of advanced satellite constellations that serve military and civilian agencies.

With the launch of more than 30 surveillance satellites over the last decade, according to space technology experts, the PLA can monitor an expanding area of the earth's surface with increased frequency, an important element of reliable military reconnaissance.

That coverage gives PLA commanders vastly improved capability to detect and track potential military targets.

Real-time satellite images and data can also be used to coordinate the operations of China's naval, missile and strike aircraft forces in operations far from the mainland.

"What we are seeing is China broadly acquiring the same capabilities in this area as those held by the U.S.," said Ross Babbage, a defense analyst and founder of the Canberra-based Kokoda Foundation, an independent security policy unit.

"Essentially, they are making most of the Western Pacific far more transparent to their military."

In a recent article for the Journal of Strategic Studies, researchers Eric Hagt and Matthew Durnin attempted to estimate the capability of China's space network using orbital modeling software and available data on satellite performance.

China's most basic satellites carried electro-optical sensors capable of taking high resolution digital images in the visible and non-visible wavelengths, wrote the authors.

More advanced satellites launched in recent years carried powerful synthetic aperture radars that could penetrate cloud and cover much bigger areas in high detail.

Added to that, China was now deploying satellites that could monitor electronic signals and emissions, so-called electronic intelligence or ELINT platforms, the authors said.

"Next to China, only the United States possesses more capable tactical support systems in space for tactical operations," they wrote.
(Editing by Don Durfee and Robert Birsel)

VikramS · Post by **VikramS** » 31 Dec 2011 17:37

Jimi wrote:Do people here want truth and reason? Respects are earned, and fairly traded. This is coming from a Chinese who want to let know his side of stories and perspective.

Jimi:

I have no doubt that your intentions are honorable and that you are proud to be Chinese, as you should rightly be.

However this mindless defense of the CPC which most Chinese display is so wierd to Indians. It reduces the credibility of the posters. Most Indians question their government vehemently; but when the Chinese do nothing but defend the government regardless of what they do we find it

There is this article this week about sending people who oppose the CPC to mental asylums and drugging them.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/stor ... 52260592/1

Or the One-Child Police.

Then we have someone here claim that all the reports about Tinnamen Square and tanks were false and only a few people died and those too were armed, and the reports of the death are all Western propaganda and the journalists reporting the killings were not there and all kind of "rewriting of history".

First of all, I am quite sure that the PLA will not tolerate armed protesters in the heart of Beijing for so many days. However I do not find either you or Don who originally posted the statement questioning it.

Second: Why did the PLA have to use tanks to clear up the square? In India we have Maoists killing security people in ambush and the government is reluctant in allowing even the use of helicopters to track them by local police. Even the IAF choppers required special permission to fire back if they took fire from them, when flying regular sorties. And we are taking about remote jungles here not the heart of the Chinese capital.

There are always more than one-side to an issue; the Chinese however seem to see one side and one side only. That sets a very dangerous precedent for the rest of the world. So stop acting like a brain-washed drone, and your words will be more credible.

ashi · Post by **ashi** » 31 Dec 2011 19:24

Can you guys please try not to be out of topic? This is a Chinese military thread. I don't give a crap about those political lecturing. There is a separate thread for that.

Selamat Pagi · Post by **Selamat Pagi** » 01 Jan 2012 10:34

VikramS wrote: Then we have someone here claim that all the reports about Tinnamen Square and tanks were false and only a few people died and those too were armed, and the reports of the death are all Western propaganda and the journalists reporting the killings were not there and all kind of "rewriting of history".

Strange isnt it ? The western "free" press has been lying about TAM all these years while the CCP has been closer to the truth.

http://ilookchina.net/2011/07/26/the-ti ... uare-hoax/

Don't just believe a hoax just to satisfy your hatred of the CCP.

Shankas · Post by **Shankas** » 01 Jan 2012 11:31

Selamat Pagi wrote: Strange isnt it ? The western "free" press has been lying about TAM all these years while the CCP has been closer to the truth.

http://ilookchina.net/2011/07/26/the-ti ... uare-hoax/

Don't just believe a hoax just to satisfy your hatred of the CCP.

Salamat Paji
Please feel "free" to Baidu permitted topics such as "Americans faked the moon landing", "Holocaust was a Myth", "Aliens live among us" ...

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 01 Jan 2012 12:14

Selamat Pagi wrote:
VikramS wrote: Then we have someone here claim that all the reports about Tinnamen Square and tanks were false and only a few people died and those too were armed, and the reports of the death are all Western propaganda and the journalists reporting the killings were not there and all kind of "rewriting of history".
Strange isnt it ? The western "free" press has been lying about TAM all these years while the CCP has been closer to the truth.

http://ilookchina.net/2011/07/26/the-ti ... uare-hoax/

Don't just believe a hoax just to satisfy your hatred of the CCP.

OT My response here
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 8#p1219628

Selamat Pagi · Post by **Selamat Pagi** » 01 Jan 2012 12:41

shiv wrote:OT My response here
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 8#p1219628

Oh there are more. Starting from 2004 and 2008 from Japan Times by Gregory Clark former Australian diplomat .
http://tiananmenmyth.blogspot.com/

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 01 Jan 2012 13:41

Selamat Pagi wrote:
shiv wrote:OT My response here
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 8#p1219628
Oh there are more. Starting from 2004 and 2008 from Japan Times by Gregory Clark former Australian diplomat .
http://tiananmenmyth.blogspot.com/

What make you believe "Gregory Clark former Australian diplomat" over many others? Is he not just another western observer, one amongst many? At best it means that the account is still hazy as to what was the exact sequence of the events.

From your reference

True, much that happened elsewhere in Beijing that night was ugly.

So would "ugly" mean 200 or perhaps 2000 where killed? Perhaps they were not killed in the center of the square or perhaps majority may not have even been killed in the square but just outside where the barricades where set?

When armed troops were finally sent in, they too met hostile crowds, but they kept advancing. Dozens of buses and troop-carrying vehicles were torched by the crowds, some with their crews trapped inside. In the panicky fighting afterward, hundreds, maybe even thousands, of civilians and students were killed. But that was a riot, not a deliberate massacre. And it did not happen in Tiananmen Square. So why all the reports of a "massacre"?

So you accept that "hundreds, maybe even thousands, of civilians and students were killed" and your only complain is "riot, not a deliberate massacre". Well I have never heard of a "riot" where the thousands die on one side and maybe not even a dozen on the other. If the above is what actually happened, it fits into the definition of a "massacre".

I do not care if it happened in the center of the square or on the periphery or even outside the square. The demonstration was held in the Tiananmen square and at the end there was a "massacre" but you can call it a "riot" if that is what you prefer.

Our difference it would seem is only in the semantics not in the substance. Peace!

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 01 Jan 2012 14:10

Don wrote:I am not a big fan of Communism. I think its dead ideology. However, you must appreciate how the government of CHina has lifted millions out of poverty. Regardless of cities their the people are better educated, have better standard of living, and better future. Compared that to India where they have worse malnutrition than sub Saharan Africa and 42 percent still lives below poverty line. I think freedoom or democracy rings hollow when a government fails to provided even basic necessaties to large number of its population.

You also a talk about minorities in China. Every country have their own problems. How about oppression of the Dalits in your society. How about the Sikhs massacere at the Golden temple and the one after Indira Gandhi was assisinated where tens of thousands were lynched. HOw about the riots agaisnt the Muslims in Gujarat where numerous people were burned, raped and killed. You also have problem with numerous regional independent movement but that is not unique for a big country like India. The point is every country have its own problems.

You can be a big fan or not, it's left to you. That's the basic tenants of any Dharmic faith. Some people in the west call it democracy, equality etc etc. May be the first death of Communist idea in China occurred when someone said, i prefer the white cat to catch mouse. Everyone appreciate the Chinese government for uplifting millions out of poverty even though we may not be appreciating the brutal power the communist rulers and party enforcing on the poor Chinese man, without asking them what they need. Similarly i think you'll be appreciating Indians uplifting themselves out of poverty after their independence in 1947. May be the Chinese people are also wise enough and capable enough to do such a task without the need of the government to tell them while taking their freedom. I will not say that Chinese citizens are better educated than Indians. If we take the basic information provided to you by the government, it feels that you're not only fooled but also taught wrong things. So it's worse than no education. Now it's not necessary to have power point presentations to learn. We Indians some who studied under kerosene lamps became the President of India. I don't think that not having something prevented people from accomplishing something. And by the way if you wish to know his caste, he came from the SC/ST category. I don't know any Tibetean Presidents in Communist China. May be you can try to make Dalai Lama as your president. We do stand with the best in he world in terms of knowledge. Standard of living without the freedom in China. That's standard of living in economic terms while sacrificing other standards. Better future than Indians? Here you go wrong. Miserably wrong. India and Indians do have a very bright future. If we can reach here without any communist rule for the past 60 years, then we do have a very bright future with the same Dharmic ways as our basic principles. Malnutrition than sub-saharan Africa? Those statistics are pulled out of someone's Musharraf. May be Indian kids don't eat X amount of beef and Y amount of Pork to be out of the malnutrition list. Regarding the statements of yours after this, you seem to be visiting Paki sites more regularly and getting usual dose of Arundhati Roy's dirty India stories a lot. And one more thing, your minority being the Tibetans, you're so blessed to have them. But like the saying it's like Garland in Monkey's hand. And for your kind information, we also do have the Tibetans. The same people whom your communist consider as

That tell the difference between India and Communist China.