A look back at the partition

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Sanku
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by Sanku »

ldev wrote:
I dont think Nehru needed anyone to push him towards the Soviet model of Central Planning. His admiration is plain. This was written in 1941 when the West had gone through 10 years of economic Depression, while the Soviets had industrialized their country in their 1st and 2nd Five Year plan.
Sigh, JLNs British influence significantly predate 41. He was already primed to like Soviet Union when he was allowed to go there, encouraged even.

Why for example did he not go to US in that period?

And why when he did go in 49 was that such a disaster?
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by Airavat »

devesh wrote:**deleted**
This is the original post.
viv wrote:In our hind-sight we blame him and criticize him not supporting the violent revolutionaries (earlier threads). Would that not have given rise to the possibility of multiple regions -some with British some against, some cooperating others looking for themselves? In other words, reverting to the anarchic times that led to foreign occupation.
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by Sanku »

I had mentioned about Indian elite distaste for US (Indian elite bred on Brit knees of course)

http://www.indianlifeandstyle.com/ILS-J ... summit.htm
At a personal level, Nehru, who had a very aristocratic upbringing, found the Americans’ propensity to flaunt their material wealth to be lacking in culture and good taste. Worse, he could not relate to his hosts at an intellectual level – during the White House dinner, Nehru complained in the letter saying, “A main topic of discussion between President Truman and his Vice President Alben Barkley concerned the merits of Kentucky bourbon whiskey.”
Bloody stuck up hypocrite. Did he think he went to US on a bloody personal jaunts. Letting personal predictions rule over Indian intrests.

On the other hand here is what US intrests in Indian freedom were ---

http://sepiamutiny.com/blog/2008/01/03/fdrs_war_for_in/
While Yalta was clearly significant on many levels, the earlier & lesser known Atlantic Conference should be interesting to mutineers because of the key role it played in Indian history… It was there that FDR made Indian Independence a pre-requisite to American involvement in WWII…

“I think I speak as America’s President when I say that America won’t help England in this war simply so that she will be able to continue to ride roughshod over colonial peoples.”
- FDR to Churchill
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by devesh »

Airavat,

as for parties in other regions, perhaps we should start debating about the careful elimination of "radicals" from other regions during the decades leading up to the Partition? the happenings in Bengal starting from the period of 1905 are very well known. perhaps we should start discussing how the British established state machinery was hand in glove with the British in making sure that "other regions" were carefully checked for "radicals" and "cleaned away" but somehow the "radicals" of INC variety and the coterie around Nehru, with its power base in the region between Punjab and Bihar, survive unscathed.

first you make a nonsensical argument about Jat Hindus and Sikhs being OK with British lordship, and then you make a grossly inaccurate statement about Baldev Singh. reading your statement, one would think that Baldev was OK with ML and general Muslim atrocities committed on non-Muslims. in fact, from your statement, one would think that BS was an advocate of Partition in the way and form that it did happen around 1947. nothing could be farther from the truth. and even more importantly, the whole process leading up to the Partition, in Punjab, had one overwhelming priority for the Sikhs: how to ensure that they would have the freedom to practice their beliefs. Baldev Singh, as the representative, was concerned with the same issues. At no time did he accept Gandhi's/INC's delusional insistence on non-violence in the face of Jihad. at no time did he condone or accept ML atrocities and the land allocation as it did happen. even after the possibility of Partition became a reality, the specific way in which the land was divided between Muslims and non-Muslims in the Punjab area was never clearly indicated by INC or Gandhi or Nehru. I find it hard to imagine that Baldev Singh ever accepted the way in which non-Muslims were left to fend for themselves, or even the final form of the partition itself. by 1947, the ML atrocities had become so egregious that the non-Muslims in Punjab had no choice but to accept genocide or survive and fight another day in India. they chose the later. the crime INC committed is basically playing Russian Roulette: they knew that the people of the area were being squeezed and had no choice but to accept whatever paltry land was thrown at them, if they wanted to survive; so INC didn't care b/c they knew the final outcome; simple needs of survival would push the Sikhs and Hindus to accept the rotten deal. this is the ultimate crime committed by INC/Gandhi/Nehru. they haven't paid for it yet.
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by Yayavar »

Sanku wrote:
viv wrote:It is not helpful to make assumptions and then rue a path not taken when the path never existed.
The idea here is to show that paths existed, and just because some one said so something at some point of time, it aint the gospel truth.
Then it needs to be laid out properly and its relevance to the current times discussed. If an error or event was a cause for certain deviation that we want to correct it will certainly be useful to understand it better. And knowing the cause will help in correcting the deviations. For example, knowing how AIT came about allows us to better recognize the common Indic-ness of us all and work to remove a division artificially planted on Indians.

Stating that Gandhi was against Hindus is hard to accept - it makes not sense. One can discuss the error made in support of Khilafat, the reasons for making that error, is continuation to current times and what would be the proper response. One can evaluate Gandhi's efforts against partition or during partition.

Similarly it is wishful thinking to state that revolutionaries would have got India Independence. It is possible The revolutionaries were not wrong and they did what certainly seems more appealing. Most of us grew up being energised by the stories of Azad, Bhagat Singh, Khudiram Bose, Savarkar and many others. However, it is more useful in my view to discuss why a pan India revolution did not happen.. What could have been the reason? What reasoning led Gandhi and many others to choose a certain path. We need to consider the result of revolutions in other parts of the world. See my earlier comment on the danger of balkanization.
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by Aditya_V »

It is also useful to WWII and the British having armed 2.5 million Indians had a significant bearing on the British deciding the game was finally up.

They just selected the shape and who will be their sucessor not to hostile to their interests. i.e keeping AIT alive etc..
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by ldev »

Sanku wrote:
ldev wrote:
I dont think Nehru needed anyone to push him towards the Soviet model of Central Planning. His admiration is plain. This was written in 1941 when the West had gone through 10 years of economic Depression, while the Soviets had industrialized their country in their 1st and 2nd Five Year plan.
Sigh, JLNs British influence significantly predate 41. He was already primed to like Soviet Union when he was allowed to go there, encouraged even.

Why for example did he not go to US in that period?

And why when he did go in 49 was that such a disaster?
Ofcourse, Nehru's British influence predates 1941, because he did his schooling in Harrow and thereafter went to Cambridge University. However, the socialist influence was very strong in early 20th century Britain in fact right from the time in the previous century that Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels had worked in Britain. Whether Nehru was influenced by socialism decisively during his years of studying in the UK is unclear. What is clear is that he was decisively influenced during his first visit to the USSR in 1927 and by the time the autobiography was written in 1941 there was no doubt as to his admiration.

I dont think there was any question of "allowing" Nehru to go. He went to the USSR just as he went to the UK to study. I dont think Britain would have refused him either trip by doing something as churlish as refusing him a visa.
Last edited by ldev on 06 Jan 2012 12:24, edited 1 time in total.
devesh
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by devesh »

Idev, a pan-India revolution was stopped with the assistance of INC. when Bhagat and others were starting to seriously make inroads into public sentiment, we all know what happened don't we? especially the role played by Gandhi/Nehru/INC in making sure that he doesn't survive....same with Bose....in the 1920's, revolutionary zeal was starting to spread in Coastal portions of AP too. once again, it was crushed with the active help of local INC strongmen. there is a very illustrative history of local land-owning elites, with influence and power in INC, crushing the nascent zeal of revolutionaries in that area. especially egregious is the fact that they had no problems in supplying info and intelligence to Brits to crush the resistance. Alluri Sita Rama Raju was one such famous revolutionary who was killed in the same manner.

the revolutionaries were never given the time or space to truly put up a challenge to the British. every time there was a possibility, it was stopped by INC with active involvement of respective local elites in cahoots with the British.....this pattern of local-elites-also-members-of-INC-also-in-cahoots-with-Brits all coming together to crush any "threats" to their power was a repetitive phenomenon in the decades leading to 1947.

the roots lie in the pervasive state-enforcement-machinery built by Brits. destroying that system should be a top priority for Bharat in the 21st century...
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by Sanku »

viv-ji, the discussion here is to learn, just in the way you mention, that is the primary purpose. We are in agreement. This is indeed a exploration.
viv wrote:
Stating that Gandhi was against Hindus is hard to accept - it makes not sense.
With respect Viv-ji, I have not said MKG was anti-Hindu, JLN was, clearly obviously and openly. He merely hid it when going out in masses while stressing on "Pandit" and in classes spoke about his open derision for the same.

Truly the mirror image of Jinnah.

However MKG's failing was letting the "ahimsa" bit get a little to heavy on him towards the end, nearly delusional. He often speaks of a "robust response" on many occasions, but around partition he had a epic fail -- judging him from his own statements and standards.

I am trying for the reasons of simple collapse of MKG around partition, many have suggested it happened as a result of previous shortsightedness which resulted in his burning many bridges with Bose, and other nationalists not open to blind acceptance of his ideology.
Similarly it is wishful thinking to state that revolutionaries would have got India Independence.
The idea is that revolutionaries could have served as one arm, while congress served the other.

The Irish model -- after all significant sections of both INC and Revolutionaries found common cause with Irish model, what was wrong in accepting this part as well?
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by member_19686 »

viv wrote: Then it needs to be laid out properly and its relevance to the current times discussed. If an error or event was a cause for certain deviation that we want to correct it will certainly be useful to understand it better. And knowing the cause will help in correcting the deviations. For example, knowing how AIT came about allows us to better recognize the common Indic-ness of us all and work to remove a division artificially planted on Indians.

Stating that Gandhi was against Hindus is hard to accept - it makes not sense. One can discuss the error made in support of Khilafat, the reasons for making that error, is continuation to current times and what would be the proper response. One can evaluate Gandhi's efforts against partition or during partition.

Similarly it is wishful thinking to state that revolutionaries would have got India Independence. It is possible The revolutionaries were not wrong and they did what certainly seems more appealing. Most of us grew up being energised by the stories of Azad, Bhagat Singh, Khudiram Bose, Savarkar and many others. However, it is more useful in my view to discuss why a pan India revolution did not happen.. What could have been the reason? What reasoning led Gandhi and many others to choose a certain path. We need to consider the result of revolutions in other parts of the world. See my earlier comment on the danger of balkanization.
So lets see.

The man demands that Hindus give whatever Muslims want and tells Hindus to get killed if Muslim "brothers" want to do it, yet it is hard for you to accept he was against Hindus.

Have you read his disgusting advice in the context of a woman being raped?

He would reiterate the same in the context of Partition when Hindu and Sikh women were being raped by the thousands.

Did he and Nehru not block population exchange?

Why don't all Gandhi lovers put such nonsense into practice then.

What exactly was the point of Pakistan then, Muslims get their own country where they can wipe out non Muslims while continuing the same separatist politics in the remaining rump "secular" India. Ya "great" foresight there by the amazing team of Gandhi and Chacha.
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by AjayKK »

surinder wrote:INC foreswore *any* use of violence.
Virupaksha wrote: Correction, INC(Gandhi/Nehru) foreswore *any* official use of violence against muslims. They were willing to use it against hindus/sikhs. The lower level congress many times participated in violence.

There are many instances of their "violent" behavior against the hindus. When Nehru was the interim prime minister, he threatened to use air force in bihar while just days earlier he refused to intervene in naokhali. He sent the army to control the bihar riots (unconfirmed but it is said he sent predominantly muslim units). No army was sent during the naokhali riots.
Your observation is borne out by history, though modern day chankianism, another name for historical revisionism, will deny this. One incident which highlights this trait of the angrez-congrez (British - INC) is the 1938 - 1939 Arya Samaj - Hindu Sanghtahanist versus Nizam of Hyderabad civil resistance movement.

On 21 st October 1938 YD Joshi started a Civil Resistance Movement against the Anti-Hindu and Pro-Muslim policies of the Nizam. Manikrao, a member of the Arya Samaj was shot dead on 27nd October, 1938 Dasshara day by the Nizam's thugs. There was great discontent in the Hindu populace of Hyderabad and the Hindu Sanghatanists and Arya Samajis offered satyagraha. All the satyagrahis marched under the Om flag. Many arrests were made, the prisoners were tortured in Aurangabad Jail.

The 1939 session of the Hindu Mahasabha at Calcutta observed the following points on the Hyderabad civil resistance movement:
But what is more encouraging to note from the Pan-Hindu point of view is the fact that it was not
only the Arya Samaj and the Hindu Mahasabha, though these two in the main led the struggle, but it was the whole Hindu brotherhood in general which joined hands and participated in the movement so wholeheartedly and with such fervour under the Hindu flag.

These crusaders received no pay nor were their families promised pensions. All of them knew they were unarmed, marching against an armed force and from the fate which those who preceded them they knew they will be tortured, starved, lathied and bayoneted too and yet they marched forth voluntarily, for there was no conscription but moral. You will be surprised to know that after the news of the outrageous lathi charge at Aurangabad on the Hindu Sanghanists prisoners,-volunteers came in larger numbers to our Shibirs to register their names and some who had then only recently returned after serving their first term in the Nizam jails as Civil Resisters, insisted on being sent again to defy the anti-Hindu bans in the Nizam State.
Then on the role of the congrez:

The Congress dictatorially anathematized the Nizam Civil Resistance Movement as 'Communal,' as 'anti-National.' Why did the Congress oppose it ? The Congress wanted to reform the States, well, was not Hyderabad the biggest and yet the worst ruled autocratic State in India ? Not only Gandhiji but no Congressite, neither the backward nor the forward nor the inward block or their heads, stepped out to condemn the Nizam Government even after the inhuman lathi charges on the Hindu Civil Resisters at Aurangabad jail or the bloody riots at Hyderabad. Then again, did not the Congress patronize civil liberties ? Was is not a fact that under Nizam Government even the life and property of millions of Hindus was held in daily danger, no freedom either of speech or worship or association worth the name existed ? Then why did not the Congress join hands with Hindu Sanghanists who were engaged in a life and death struggle to secure these civil liberties in the State or at least pass a resolution to support the justice of their demands ? Was it because the Hindu Sanghanists went to the
field as Hindus ?
The "Action taken" by the congrez:
Suffice it to say that the Hindu Mahasabha could secure the sympathy even of some English M.P.s in England and persuade them to protest against the horrible oppression at the Aurangabad jail and during the Hyderabad riots the Hindus had to undergo-but no Congress Ministers in all the seven provinces touched the subject even with a pair of tongs, initiated not even a discussion in the Congress or Indian Legislatures not uttered a word in defence of the Hindus against the Nizam Government.

The moral is plain and must be plainly told. So long as the Congress continues to hug to the 'Pseudo-National' ideology as it does today, its policy is bound to be anti-Hindu, is bound to betray Hindu interests, howsoever just and legitimate they may be.
Fast forward from 1939 to now and the same role is continued. A look back at the partition and the past deeds of the "leaders" gives us a clue of the present situation and the responses that will be offered to many such situations that will arise in the future. As for modern day chankian revisionists, we can look at the example of Russi Karanjia, the editor of Blitz, who in the 40s was close to both the angrez-congreaz cabal. But forty years later he completely dumped the baggage and during the 80s was against the pseudo-national activities and supported the Ram Janmabhoomi movement. It can take 40 years for Karanjia, but the hope that modern day chankian revisionists will agree to anything said against the angrez-congreaz cabal is unlikely.
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by Sanku »

ldev wrote: I dont think there was any question of "allowing" Nehru to go. He went to the USSR just as he went to the UK to study. I dont think Britain would have refused him either trip by doing something as churlish as refusing him a visa.

:rotfl:

Are you for real Idev? Chulish? The murdering, wife-selling briturds were systematically denying grains to starving population, crushing basic civil liberties, torturing people in Kala Pani yada yada yada.....Not letting Indians go to US (Komatagaru) --

and Nehru just chose to go to USSR because the oh so nice Brits would not be churlish.

:rotfl:
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by brihaspati »

arnab wrote:
ldev wrote:Brihaspati,

Misallocation of resources.

PS: Forgive the brevity. Trying not be verbose here.
to add to this - the 5 year plans worked relatively decently up until 1961, then it went on a downward spiral so to speak. Why did policy makers not change course? The answers in my opinion are:

1. intellectual hubris - the power a policy maker feels regarding their ability to influence the lives of millions. The 'lassaize faire' approach seems so shallow by comparison :); They probably tried to explain the decade of 1960s as 'atypical' due to 2 wars, famines etc.

2. Focus on equity rather than efficiency - I think focus on economic growth was eschewed in favour of income redistribution (Kaldor's committe on taxes to incease tax base etc etc). It was only in the 1990s that C Rangarajan commented that "Economic growth is the best anti-poverty program".

3. The over dependence of policy makers on leontiff input-output models and ignoring the game-theoretic approach, which would have included the impact of behavioural changes (policy making was not as sophisticated in those days) - so the outcomes achieved could be very different from what was intended, because people respond to policy changes.

4. Entrenched interest groups in the bureaucracy - by the 1970s, the services had started getting politicised and there were a lot of incentives in preserving status quo.
Interestingly, why would these factors onlee act about economic policy and not about previous political steps in the previous decades? If "behavioural" stuff do really affect people's "responses" - they did definitely do so before game theory was invented. [A theory is a model - and it has to be invented, it cannot be discovered].

So it must have been the underlying strategic approach to doing things [behavioural response to emerging situations] in the policy-makers as behavioural phenomena that existed before their mature mature years in the 60's.

So if they had been motivated to do and impose things on the political arena out of

(1) "intellectual hubris - the power a policy maker feels regarding their ability to influence the lives of millions." Choosing or selecting or preferring "approaches" dpending on ideological pre-conceptions. Trying to explain the "decade" as 'atypical' for example putting the blame of Partition violence on the abstract and mute feminine nation - who was merely suffering from pangs of childbirth.

(2) "Focus on equity rather than efficiency - I think focus on economic growth was eschewed in favour of income redistribution (Kaldor's committe on taxes to incease tax base etc etc)." This would be really really strange when translated into political scenario. In political analogy - "equity" would have meant redistribution of political power among competing claiming political groups. But this was sheer anathema - "no parity" for example! Why would people so insistent on "efficiency" suddenly switch over to "redistributions"?!!!

(3) "The over dependence of policy makers on leontiff input-output models and ignoring the game-theoretic approach, which would have included the impact of behavioural changes (policy making was not as sophisticated in those days) - so the outcomes achieved could be very different from what was intended, because people respond to policy changes." In political arena this means refusal to experiment with emerging models, or alternatives and staying committed to approaches/commitments/techniques or responses developed in an earlier era - from which things have changed.

This would be severely problematic with the current bend on supposed congrez approaches over transition. Apparently they were quick to abandon earlier positions where it benefited their immediate power objectives [for the good of the "majority" apparently]- why would such behavioural tendencies change in policymaking? Or was it that nothing changed - what they did was something they were committed to already for long - regardless of how things emerged?

(4) "Entrenched interest groups in the bureaucracy - by the 1970s, the services had started getting politicised and there were a lot of incentives in preserving status quo." So "services" were not politicized under the Brits?!!! Or is it that preserving and looking after Brit political interests cannot be seen as "politicization"? There were no "entrenched interest" groups in the bureaucracy before and no incentive in preserving status quo?

If the Brit ruled bureaucracy could change allegiances so smoothly into "nationalist" camp, dropping all their entrenched interests - what prevented similarly smoothly changing their developing "interests" into something more productive?

But overall my fundamental question remains unanswered - if the leadership were allowing these things to happen, why cannot we accept that they were doing the "best possible" with the interests of the nation and the "majority" in mind - under the given "situation"? After all we are lambasting here any questioning based on hindsight, about the motivations and underlying causes of leadership choosing to act in certain ways about policy. It is required of us to implicitly trust that whatever they were doing they were doing in good faith and for the best under the "given circumstances".

Why is it so difficult for those who claim this in the political arena - to accept the same leaders' actions in the economic arena? If people are supposed to be guided by behavioural phenomena - then there would be consistency in strategic behaviour - regardless of the field of action.
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by ramana »

Devesh, Please don't make assumptions about other posters views. We are all here to learn and understand in order to correct the systemic ills in the polity. Everyone who participates here has something to say and is saying it.

Continue.

ramana

PS: It would help if posters dont use smileys in this topic.
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by ldev »

Sanku wrote:
ldev wrote: I dont think there was any question of "allowing" Nehru to go. He went to the USSR just as he went to the UK to study. I dont think Britain would have refused him either trip by doing something as churlish as refusing him a visa.

:rotfl:

Are you for real Idev? Chulish? The murdering, wife-selling briturds were systematically denying grains to starving population, crushing basic civil liberties, torturing people in Kala Pani yada yada yada.....Not letting Indians go to US (Komatagaru) --

and Nehru just chose to go to USSR because the oh so nice Brits would not be churlish.

:rotfl:
Before the British Commonwealth Immigration Acts of 1962 and 1968, Commonwealth citizens had an unrestricted right to enter Britain. As such in the early 1900s, if an Indian citizen had the money, he/she had every right to go to Britain. Nehru's father was a well-off lawyer and was able to fund his son's education in Britain. There was nothing abnormal about it and did not require any special favors from the British.

As far as the Komata Maru is concerned, its passengers were refused entry into Canada according to Canada's then discriminatory immigration laws.(discriminatory against non Europeans). The people on board that ship were not prevented from leaving India by the British. However on their return, they were incarerated. The US also had similar non-exclusion immigration laws preventing persons of Asian origin from immigrating to the US during those years.

Added later: You can check with old timers who traveled to the UK in the 1950s. No visas were needed for Indian passport holders, because India was a member of the Commonwealth.
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by devesh »

ramana wrote:Devesh, Please don't make assumptions about other posters views. We are all here to learn and understand in order to correct the systemic ills in the polity. Everyone who participates here has something to say and is saying it.

Continue.

ramana

PS: It would help if posters dont use smileys in this topic.

what? I didn't make any assumptions about anybody's views. the debate has hit a lot of nerves. I was simply responding to the misleading statement about Baldev Singh. please read Airavat's statement and see for yourself the implied meaning. he almost makes it sound as if someone like BS was OK with the massacres that happened. his statement is specifically framed in a way which makes it clear that he thinks that BS knew before hand the massacres that were going to happen and accepted that.....that is a statement that deserves scrutiny and rebuttal. I am not going to apologize for it.
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by Sanku »

ldev wrote:
Before the British Commonwealth Immigration Acts of 1962 and 1968, Commonwealth citizens had an unrestricted right to enter Britain. .
Irrelevant,
1) We are talking of letting JLN go to USSR which when I checked last was not a part of commonwealth ever.

2) The British application of rules was clearly and obviously partisan, there were always ways to circumvent the laws for difficult people (Sarvarkar for example) -- so kindly do not quote the British rule book. Its not worth S*** in Indian context anyway.
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by ldev »

Sanku wrote:
ldev wrote:
Before the British Commonwealth Immigration Acts of 1962 and 1968, Commonwealth citizens had an unrestricted right to enter Britain. .
Irrelevant,
1) We are talking of letting JLN go to USSR which when I checked last was not a part of commonwealth ever.

2) The British application of rules was clearly and obviously partisan, there were always ways to circumvent the laws for difficult people (Sarvarkar for example) -- so kindly do not quote the British rule book. Its not worth S*** in Indian context anyway.
Just as the passengers on the Komata maru did not need permission to leave India, similarly Nehru did not need permission from anybody to leave India. Whether he was admitted into the USSR was not upto the British, it was upto the Russians. Similarly if the passengers were admitted to Canada or the US was upto those two countries. The Soviets and the Canadians decided who entered their country. The fact is that the British did not have any outbound emigration rules from India, unless you can research and come up with some.

Added later:
All countries and institutions have rules for troublemakers. Heck, even BRF throws out people who are troublemakers. Nothing wrong with that. But that does not make it into a conspiracy theory.
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by Sanku »

ldev wrote: Just as the passengers on the Komata maru did not need permission to leave India, similarly Nehru did not need permission from anybody to leave India. Whether he was admitted into the USSR was not upto the British, it was upto the Russians.
Yes Sir, and I have a Tajmahal to sell.

Nehru was a nobody who just went USSR without anyone noticing and this is a minor deal. When far less influential freedom fighters like Savarkar were given 3rd degree.

Please Sir, kindly stop insulting our intelligence and excuse me while I go and throw up at this line of spin.
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by ldev »

Sanku wrote:
ldev wrote: Just as the passengers on the Komata maru did not need permission to leave India, similarly Nehru did not need permission from anybody to leave India. Whether he was admitted into the USSR was not upto the British, it was upto the Russians.
Yes Sir, and I have a Tajmahal to sell.

Nehru was a nobody who just went USSR without anyone noticing and this is a minor deal. When far less influential freedom fighters like Savarkar were given 3rd degree.

Please Sir, kindly stop insulting our intelligence and excuse me while I go and throw up at this line of spin.
What I have stated in the prior posts is based on the immigration/emigration laws that existed at that point in time. Nobody is forced to believe anything.
surinder
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by surinder »

ldev wrote: Just as the passengers on the Komata maru did not need permission to leave India, similarly Nehru did not need permission from anybody to leave India. Whether he was admitted into the USSR was not upto the British, it was upto the Russians. Similarly if the passengers were admitted to Canada or the US was upto those two countries. The Soviets and the Canadians decided who entered their country. The fact is that the British did not have any outbound emigration rules from India, unless you can research and come up with some.

Rules are for fools. Brutish controlled the movement of INC leaders carefully. Even after independence MKG, JLN, Sardar and all the stalwarts who won freedom by the dint of their will do not disclose that their travel plans were always had to be approved by the Brutish authorities.

There are inadvertant mentions, sometimes. MKG or JLN could not visit Jallianwala bagha after the Brits killed becuase they could not get "permission" to go there. Many instances of such travel show up. These are all examples about within India travel, incidentally.

How you can claim to be a freedome fighter when you have to beg to even travel. There is no intelligent explanation for this.

The fact that travel was carefully choreograph itself suggests that the whole INC was a Brutish choregraphed game plan.
Last edited by surinder on 06 Jan 2012 23:38, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by surinder »

Airavat wrote:While people keep talking about INC did this or that, what about the other parties in the provinces? Why for instance did the parties representing Sikhs also accept partition? Baldev Singh became defence minister in the government knowing full well what carnage would be unleashed against non-Muslims. Earlier he negotiated with Sikandar Hyatt Khan of the Unionist Party......Why didn't these and parties in other regions take a more violent path?
The General is corrupt, he cavorts with the enemy general's wife. The entire command is cowardly and compromised. All the elite regiments, the special forces, the intelligence, the planners, the weapon builders etc. are corrupt, incompentent, and unmanly.

This entire army has en-masse surrendered to the enemy ignominously.

But hey, that sepoy in that corner, he surrendered too. Why are you blaming the whole army and it commanders when that puny sepoy in that corner also surrendered. He should be critized too. Why are you not critizing him? Why just the commander?
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by brihaspati »

When JLN visited USSR, he apparently wrote up a summary of his impressions and send it to some of his non-Indian friends. Do people know who these friends happened to be?
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by Sanku »

ldev wrote: What I have stated in the prior posts is based on the immigration/emigration laws that existed at that point in time. Nobody is forced to believe anything.
1) The rules do not mean anything in British context frankly.
2) Even if they did, those are hardly the only rules.
3) Even by the rules you posted JLN could not leave commonwealth for Russia without breaking laws or British permission. Since we know he did not break laws -- its obvious he went with permission.

Why make a big deal to deny the obvious.
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by Sanku »

brihaspati wrote:When JLN visited USSR, he apparently wrote up a summary of his impressions and send it to some of his non-Indian friends. Do people know who these friends happened to be?
No, but please do tell.
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by brihaspati »

From Irving's "Churchill's War - vol 2", p391 - on Churchill's successful manipulation of the failure of the Cripps mission:
Knowing that Churchill had wittingly destroyed the Cripps mission from afar, Roosevelt sent him an uncomplimentary message which arrived at three a.m. on April 12:
The feeling is almost universally held [Roosevelt suggested] that the dead- lock has been caused by the unwillingness of the British government to concede to the Indians the right of self-government, notwithstanding the willingness of the Indians to entrust technical, military, and naval defense control to the competent British authorities. American public opinion cannot understand why, if the British government is willing to permit the component parts of India to secede from the British empire after the war, it is not willing to permit them to enjoy what is tanta- mount to self-government during the war.
[...]
Since the telegram was addressed to him (as ‘Former Naval Person’), Churchill decided not to show it to the cabinet. Hopkins, who had been with him as he received the telegram, asked to ’phone Roosevelt at once – three a.m. in London was still late evening in Washing- ton. Mysteriously however, ‘owing to atmospherics,’ as Churchill explained to him, the call could not get through. From the message which Churchill sent to Roosevelt a few hours later, what Eden’s private staff described as a polite raspberry, it was plain that he intended to brook no further presidential meddling in India. ‘You know the weight which I attach to everything you say to me,’ Churchill silkily assured the president, ‘but I did not feel I could take responsibility for the defence of India if everything had again to be thrown into the melting-pot at this critical juncture. That, I am sure, would be the view of cabinet and Parliament. . . Anything like a seri- ous difference between you and me would break my heart, and would surely deeply injure both our countries at the height of this terrible struggle.’

Thus Churchill effectively shelved the Indian constitutional issue for the duration of the war. Neither he, nor Amery, nor Lord Linlithgow trusted the Congress Party. In sabotaging the mission, he had also taken Cripps down a useful peg or two. ‘Good-bye Mr Cripps!’ mocked the viceroy in the margin of one telegram.[144]

After an eight-day journey, Cripps arrived back in England on April 21. Roosevelt continued to interfere, grumbling to his own cabinet about India, and firing off more letters to Churchill. Once they even spoke by telephone about it; the prime minister again deprecated any American intervention, and lectured Roosevelt that neither Gandhi, a Hindu, nor his Congress Party represented all the Indian people. A million Indians had already enlisted in the British army, he pointed out.[145] On the last day of May 1942 he would send another acerbic telegram to Washington, this time about rumours that Nehru was to be invited to the United States; he added that neither he nor the viceroy relished the prospect that the meddlesome Colonel Johnson was to return to India. ‘ We are fighting to defend this vast mass of helpless Indians from imminent invasion,’ he chided the American president. ‘I know you will remember my many difficulties.’[146]
By the way in regards to supposed Brit capacity and inclination about being able to militarily hold down any potential revolutionary "India", here is a starter - again from the highly sympathetic Irving :
All this was just treading water. Deep down, he regarded the Indian sub- continent as lost. He would ‘amaze’ King George VI, the Emperor of India, in July 1942 with the casual remark that his cabinet colleagues and all three parliamentary parties were ‘quite prepared to give up India’ after the war. ‘Cripps, the Press, and U.S. opinion,’ observed the king, somewhat mysti- fied, in his diary, ‘have all contributed to make their minds up that our rule in India is wrong and has always been wrong for India.’147
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by brihaspati »

Roosevelt's concerns for the Indian front had to be fanned into a flame - for a beautiful milking operation. The Churchillian campaign of emphasizing the gravity of the "war situation in India" could be merely a ploy to extract more resources from the US for use on his favourite bomber campaigns. [again from Irving, vol 2 p 395]
On April 15, at a time when he was already sending hundreds of bombers to raise fires in German cities, the prime minister appealed to Roosevelt to allocate Ameri- can bombers to India. ‘Might I press you, Mr President, to procure the necessary decisions?160 The president replied that fifty fighter planes and almost as many bombers were already wending their way out to India. There were limits to the prime minister’s concern however. When Attlee suggested that they transfer the whole of Bomber Command to India and the Middle East, the prime minister predicted to him that the squadrons would do nothing once they arrived:‘We have built up a great plan here for bombing Germany,’ he explained, ‘which is the only way in our power of helping Russia.’161
More on the running tussle between FDR and Churchill over India:
Winston Churchill was very conscious of his own White Anglo-Saxon origins, and this was sometimes the despair of his colleagues – albeit a despair tinged with an element of hypocrisy. That same month, after an evening in which he downed eight slugs of whisky, he reacted furiously to Sulzberger’s suggestion that he was making a mistake in refusing to see Gandhi. Churchill exploded that he would see the Indian politician in jail. ‘I hate Indians,’ he burst out in a conversation with Amery at this time. ‘They are a beastly people with a beastly religion.’

Gandhi and the extremist Hindu members of his committee had declared a mass campaign of sabotage and civil disobedience in India, and early in August the viceroy ordered them arrested and interned – Gandhi in a palace, and his followers in less comfortable prison conditions in Bombay. It was an unavoidable action in the midst of a war: India might otherwise have found herself well on the road to another bloody mutiny.

The arrests aroused indignation around the world.

When the British refused to take American concerns seriously, Claire Booth Luce placed a large advertisement in The New York Times calling for mediation. Lord Halifax noted with private amusement, ‘I should like a full page advertisement in The Times calling a large meeting at the Albert Hall to consider the Negro problem’ in the USA. Another Englishman, arriving in New York, was asked about the Indian problem; he rejoined: ‘I didn’t know there was one. I thought you had killed them all off.’

To the Americans however India was no laughing matter. Roosevelt was both disappointed and embarrassed by the Churchill government’s attitude on India, which was so out of tune with the ‘people’s war’ that Washington hoped the Allies were fighting. The Chinese leader Chiang Kai-shek pro- tested to Washington that the Indian Congress leaders only wanted the British out of India so that they might help the Allies the more. Roosevelt for- warded this seductive Chinese argument to London, and Amery mischie- vously forwarded it to Churchill – by then slugging it out with Stalin in Moscow. The prime minister dismissed it as ‘eye wash.’ After Amery urged Winston to tell Chiang and the president to mind their own business, the prime minister cabled the president on August:
I take it amiss [that] Chiang should seek to make difficulties between us and should interfere in matters about which he has proved himself most ill-informed which affect our sovereign rights.
(He wrote ‘Chiang’ but clearly his real target was Roosevelt himself). The decision to intern Gandhi was, Churchill averred, taken by an Indian executive of twelve men, of whom only one was a European; the other eleven were as patriotic and able as any of the Hindu Congress leaders. ‘It occurred to me,’ he told Roosevelt, ‘[that] you could remind Chiang that Gandhi was prepared to negotiate with Japan on the basis of a free passage for Japanese troops through India in [anticipation] of their joining hands with Hitler.’ He suspected the hand of the diminutive Madame Chiang behind the message. ‘Cherchez la femme,’ he hinted to the president.
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by brihaspati »

Sanku wrote:
brihaspati wrote:When JLN visited USSR, he apparently wrote up a summary of his impressions and send it to some of his non-Indian friends. Do people know who these friends happened to be?
No, but please do tell.
Sanku ji, I am waiting for people who know so much more about JLN to enlighten me. Just as for knowledge about Mountbatten and his certificates about Indian admin officials.
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by ramana »

So who were the able eleven who took the decision to intern Gandhi please?
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by Prem »

Easing Mush Pain —Muhammad Ahsan Yatu
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 2012_pg3_4
The low and high mountainous north and west, the deep blue Indian Ocean in the south and the reach of the monsoon rising from the Bay of Bengal made up the boundaries of the subcontinent, and also of Indian nationalism that remained loosely knitted for most of its history due to thousands of invasions. But the last big invasion proved to be different.
The British needed comfort, food, cheap labour, communication systems, security and fulfilment of the basic purpose of their conquest of India — resources and markets. To achieve all this, a functioning oneness among the Indians was needed. The socio-economic developments leading to connecting people and evolving markets thus started. Besides raising a standing army and establishing bureaucratic and judicial systems, schools, colleges and universities were built, ports were made, railway tracks were laid, roads and irrigation system were constructed and industries were introduced.The oneness meant strengthening Indian nationalism. With the passage of time, political parties were formed. Politics strengthened Indian nationalism to such a degree that from Balochistan to Bengal and Khyber to Ras Kumari, every soul became Hindustani.
Despite its strength the revitalised Indian nationalism was not flawless. The British knew that it could also become a threat. They had to keep some safety valves. So two strategies were used; first, the Hindu-Muslim divide, second, variation in the quantum of development. Although less development was the main reason in the hatred for modern knowledge among the Muslims, the British choice to keep the people underdeveloped was specific. The western periphery or the present Pakistan was kept comparatively backward so that its population would remain attached to agriculture and would also provide recruits for the army. Simultaneously, to earn the loyalties of the elites of this area the centuries-old tribalism, shrine system and feudalism were patronised. Thus, the British ruled over India mostly through development and partly through the social and communal divide.World War II suddenly ended Indian nationalism’s 100-year-old relationship with its developers. Despite its flaws, Indian nationalism was so prevailing that the backward Muslim majority states till the last moment were prepared to remain connected to it in the way proposed in the Cabinet Mission Plan.The Congress accepted the plan but rejected it later mainly for two reasons. First, an underdeveloped area and its Muslim majority might not remain satisfied for long in a united India. Second, the US had emerged as the most powerful country after World War II and was meddling in Indian affairs.The communal divide finally divided India into two countries, India and Pakistan. The partition saved India from an identity crisis. The Congress kept intact all that which was positive about the British rule, and it did more to strengthen Indian nationalism by turning to speedy societal and economic development through social democracy, more industrialisation and land reforms.What partition brought to the other part of united India, history seems to be in a hurry in determining that. That Pakistan did not survive as one country and is struggling still is a question whose answer one can find in the fact that the policy to ‘divide’ rather than development was chosen to govern it. Though the nature of the divide changed, from a religious one to an amalgam of religion and ethnicity, it was a change for the worse. It left the newborn nation within months without any identity, without nationalism.
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by ldev »

surinder wrote:
How you can claim to be a freedome fighter when you have to beg to even travel. There is no intelligent explanation for this.

The fact that travel was carefully choreograph itself suggests that the whole INC was a Brutish choregraphed game plan.
India getting its independence was more of a negotiated agreement as opposed to the US fleeing Vietnam. There is no argument about that. It is also natural that the British would be comfortable dealing with an anglicized individual who had studied in Britain.

What was delivered in return was a country that after the initial formation of Pakistan has remained intact. People may scorn about getting independence on a negotiated basis, but those negotiations also allowed time to formally incorporate the 565 princely states. Speculating about "what may have been" is counter productive. But if there was no negotiated independence,( leaving Hindus and Muslims to sort out all issues) would there have been a patchwork of princely states dotted about within India? Would it be one entity as we know it today? Would there have been greater or lesser violence as Muslims within India decided to establish their own country?

I think that it is fine to look back at partition, but then it is more important to look ahead to the future. Re-fighting those years is not going to change history. Even changing the relative positions and reputations of individuals in history is not going to change either the present or the future.
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by Sanku »

ldev wrote: I think that it is fine to look back at partition, but then it is more important to look ahead to the future. Re-fighting those years is not going to change history. Even changing the relative positions and reputations of individuals in history is not going to change either the present or the future.
In which case why are you so involved in trying to get some sense in us dunderheads? Worried about us? Kindly dont be.

I am really tired of well wishers who want us to not talk about things that to them are "useless" !! Thats about the third thread in less than a week.

Please let us be. Thanks in advance.
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by devesh »

Idev ji,

past can't be changed. you're right. but future and CAN and WILL be changed. on that count you're wrong.
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by svinayak »

We have to continuously revalute all the old history and re image all the old leaders to fix things in the present and also in the future

We have to create a future of what we want. It is in our hands
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by KLNMurthy »

@ldev understanding partition is also key to understanding clear and present danger of TSP.
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by Prem »

KLNMurthy wrote:@ldev understanding partition is also key to understanding clear and present danger of TSP.
And, no doubt , we are well wisher of TSP.
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Re: A look back at the partition

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More extracts about US "perfidy" over Indian independence and Churchill : (Irving, vol 2).
mahatma gandhi’s coup de théâtre [1943] gave Washington an excuse to resume its interference in the affairs of British India. Once before, in 1942, Roosevelt had told his vice-president that his great ambition was to destroy the British empire, commencing with India. (It was an irony of history that Adolf Hitler, Churchill’s principal enemy, had often expressed the opposite desire.*)

Roosevelt left no doubt of his hostility to any empire other than the burgeoning American one, and Churchill showed little interest in opposing him. Roosevelt never lost sight of his goal. Driving alone and talking politics with George Patton in January 1943, he ‘discussed the P.M. to his disadvantage,’ as the general privately recorded, and gloated that India was all but lost to the British. To speed that process he had sent the Hon. William Phillips to Delhi in November as his personal representative, an officer whose principal qualification appeared to be a barely concealed disdain for Churchill, and who routinely wrote his private letters on the printed letterhead of Roosevelt’s new espionage service, the O.S.S.

Phillips stopped in London before proceeding to India. Both Amery and Cripps met him. He also lunched at No. 10 Downing-street, sending to Washington a dispatch the next day that rather dwelt on the prime minister’s ‘siren zipper-suit’ and boots. During the two-hour luncheon, which had begun at one-thirty, Churchill conducted his guest on a tour of every corner of his world; upon reaching India, he remarked that he was willing to grant Dominion status if the parties there should be in agreement (knowing that they were not). The British, reported Phillips, were saying that if they pulled out a civil war would ensue between Hindu and Moslem.

This was a prediction on which Roosevelt’s agent offered no opinion. Arriving in Delhi, he passed on to the viceroy a request from the president to release Gandhi; it was evidently inspired by that noisome duo, Eleanor Roosevelt and Madame Chiang Kai-shek, who was staying at the White House. Leo Amery reassured the viceroy that they were taking a robust line against American interference. ‘I do hope,’ he also asked Churchill, ‘you will make it quite clear to the president that his people must keep off the grass.’ He had little cause to fear. Churchill did not like Gandhi, that was plain. His views on India, as Amery remarked in private, remained those of the army subaltern Winston Churchill at Poona in 1892.

Interestingly, [Irving, vol2, p 347]
On the same date,[Feb 23] the master Lend–Lease agreement between Britain and the United States was signed. With this ticklish negotiation out of the way, Roosevelt now felt free to intervene directly over India. He sent a highly sensitive message to London for Ambassador Harriman to deliver to the prime minister in person on the morning of February 26. This inquired what steps Churchill proposed by way of conciliating the Indian leaders. The letter was an impertinent demand for Britain to give up India.
Truly it might be said that the empire had more to fear from her allies than from her enemies. ‘States which have no overseas colonies or posses- sions,’ Churchill would write, dipping his pen in the vitriol of sarcasm, ‘are capable of rising to moods of great elevation and detachment about the affairs of those who have.’ He wondered what right a country might assert to take such a lofty view when it had such troubled race relations as the United States.


In fact he had just set up an India Committee to examine this very issue – it was at its first meeting that evening, February 26, that Leo Amery decided that Churchill was on the brink of nervous collapse. The Viceroy of India, Lord Linlithgow, objected to Churchill’s plan to promise India Dominion status after the war. He wrote to Amery protesting about ‘these explosions in the prime minister’s mind.’ Amery, the only Conservative on the India Committee, saw three options – to do nothing; to revert to British rule in its most intractable form, or to move onward to an All- Indian Executive Council. Cripps however agreed with Churchill’s scheme, as did Attlee and Sir John Anderson.

Adrift in a rising political tempest, Churchill dragged his anchor. At that India Committee meeting on the twenty-sixth, in one of his more ‘expansive moments,’ as Amery charitably put it, the P.M. suggested that they might just dump India and concentrate on the defence of the British Isles, Africa, and the sea route to Australia.
Note that FDR really did not give up on psychologically keeping the screw tight on Churchill. They were both persistent and stubborn. obviously Churchill was using the threat of painting FDR as thwarting the "war effort", but within that the running battle continued.

[Churchill it appears, wanted to drastically reduce the size of the IA. Amery notes "‘ Winston,...has a curious hatred of India and everything concerned with it, and is convinced that the Indian Army is only waiting to shoot us in the back.’" another pointer to what the Brit tops thought about the prospect of military intervention].

I will finish this sequence off with the "Johnson intervention".
at this time [Cripps mission] there was an unforeseen intervention. Roosevelt had sent Colonel Louis A. Johnson, an American lawyer, out to India as his personal representative, ostensibly heading a mission on munitions; Johnson had arrived in Delhi on April 3, as the negotiations between Cripps and the Indian leaders were at their height. He rapidly established a rapport with Cripps, and together they developed an alternative formula on the tricky question of a native Indian minister of defence. Linlithgow immediately reported this to London. Linlithgow complained that Cripps, ‘presumably’ with Johnson’s assistance, had proposed to Nehru that an Indian would become defence minister. He added that Johnson ‘acts and talks as though he were sent to India as Roosevelt’s personal representative to mediate’ (as indeed he was). From Cripps meanwhile Churchill received a rather naive secret telegram, in their private code, asking him to thank President Roosevelt for Johnson’s ‘very efficient’ help.

Shocked by the scope of the new proposals, Churchill forbade him to proceed, pending the cabinet’s decision. Receiving Harry Hopkins in the cabinet room an hour or two later, at ten-thirty a.m. on April 9 – Hopkins had arrived in London with General Marshall on the day before – Churchill read out the viceroy’s telegram. He protested in vivid language at Roosevelt’s meddling in India, and predicted that his cabinet, meeting at midday, would reject this ‘Cripps–Johnson proposal,’ as he termed it.

Fearing that Roosevelt’s gauche action would set back his own strategic mission in London, Hopkins lied to Churchill: he insisted that Colonel Johnson had had no such instructions from Roosevelt, and that it was Cripps who was dragging Roosevelt’s name into the debate for his own reasons. ‘I told Churchill,’ noted Hopkins afterwards, ‘of the president’s instructions to me, namely that he would not be drawn into the Indian business except at the personal request of the prime minister.’

Churchill saw through Hopkins’s little subterfuge, but he drafted in long-hand a telegram to Cripps and the viceroy exploiting it to the full: ‘Colonel Johnson,’ he wrote, with Harry Hopkins looking over his shoulder, ‘is not President Roosevelt’s personal representative in any matter outside the specific mission dealing with Indian munitions and kindred topics on which he was sent. I feel sure President would be vexed if he, the President, were to seem to be drawn into the Indian constitution issue.’

The war cabinet was also critical of Cripps.They sent him two cables, objecting to the Cripps–Johnson formula, revoking his powers to negotiate, and rebuking him for going behind the viceroy’s back. In a wounded reply, Cripps indicated that he had belatedly found out that the viceroy was going behind his back. ‘ Your telegrams...,’ he wrote to the cabinet, ‘apparently refer to some sent from here which I have not seen.’

Colonel Johnson would report to Roosevelt that Cripps had explained to him, in some embarrassment, that Churchill had now rescinded his powers and would give no approval ‘unless Wavell and [the] Viceroy separately send their own code cables unqualifiedly endorsing any change Cripps wants.’

By skilfully exploiting Roosevelt’s diplomatic bêtise, Churchill had at one stroke thrown Cripps and his mission into promising disarray.
[Irving, vol 2, p 386]
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by brihaspati »

By the way, Hopkins was the private line to FDR cultivated by Churchill - by using Churchill's own DIL. This DIL later on went on to marry a "rich" entrepreneur back in US, and became one of the supposed key fundraiser/socialite/king-maker of US politics. She was instrumental supposedly in helping at least one particular charmer of a President to get elected. So do note all facets of Brit politics - including use of female kin. Maybe all for a noble purpose. Nripaniti varangana-sama - after all as per our SDRE ancients.
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by Prem »

But they have all overlooked the biggest news in the Andrew book?new evidence that proves that Harry Hopkins, the closest and most influential adviser to President Franklin D. Roosevelt during World War II, was a Soviet agent. Andrew had reported this in a book he had written in 1990 based on information provided by Oleg Gordievsky, a high-level KGB officer who had also been smuggled out of the Soviet Union by British intelligence. Gordievsky reported that Iskhak Ahkmerov, the KGB officer who controlled the illegal Soviet agents in the U.S. during the war, had said that Hopkins was “the most important of all Soviet wartime agents in the United States.”
http://www.aim.org/media-monitor/the-tr ... y-hopkins/
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Re: A look back at the partition

Post by brihaspati »

Whatever be the reality, before we claim that the Brits would have jumped into India with military intervention to crush any "revolution" - we need to look at several viewpoints coming from those times. We need to think - whatever be the reality - whether the Brits themselves really thought themselves as capable of doing so: first here from a distinguished Indian commander,

Military and the partition
The paper written by the Director Military Intelligence had a novel security classification – Top Secret, Not For Indian Eyes. My predecessor a British officer in a hurry to go back home to the UK on demobilization, had handed over the key of the almirah containing classified documents to me without checking the documents. This paper was written in the wake of the INA trials.

It stated that the Indian officers of the Army could be divided into three categories – those commissioned before 1933 from Sandhurst, the pre-war officers commissioned between 1933 and 1939, and the wartime emergency commissioned officers. The Sandhurst officers were considered more reliable. They were now middle aged with family commitments and did not nurture much grievance as they had been treated well. They were very few, their total number being about thirty. The pre-war, 1933 to 1939 officers had a grievance because their emoluments were not at par with their British counterparts. This disparity was removed during the war but its memory and of some other discriminations still rankled with them. The wartime officers numbering about 12,000 against a total of 500 of the two previous categories, were considered most unreliable. While in their schools and colleges, they had been exposed to subversive political influence culminating in the Quit India movement.

They faced an uncertain future because they were all emergency commissioned officers and only very few were likely to be accommodated in the permanent post-war cadre of the Army. They were working at the company and platoon level interacting directly with the soldiers.

As for the soldiers, the position regarding them had also changed radically. Prior to the war, the strength of the Army was 1.37 lakhs and recruitment was confined to the martial classes. A large number of soldiers came from traditional military families. During the war, floodgates had been opened for recruitment. The Army had been expanded from 1.37 lakhs to 2.2 millions. The INA had had a psychological impact on the officers and men of the Army.

Further, the bulk of the Army overseas had served in South East Asia, where they had seen how the prestige of the colonial powers had suffered at the hands of the Japanese in the early years of the war. Towards the end of the war, national movements for freedom had erupted in Asian countries ruled by colonial powers like the British, the French, the Dutch and the Portugese. The paper also took into account that an economically exhausted Britain after a long drawn out war, was not in a position to maintain a strong British military presence in India. In the circumstance, the paper recommended early British withdrawal from India. I was much impressed by this very analytical study.

The fact that the Indian Army had an impact on our movement for Independence and hastened the dawn of freedom is indisputable. Earl Atlee the British Prime Minister, who had presided over the liquidation of the British Empire in 1947, confirmed this during his visit to India in 1956. He told Mr Chakravarty, the then Governor of Bengal, that the decision to quit quickly in 1947 had been taken because the British could no longer rely on the loyalty of the Indian Army.
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