Indian Naval Discussion

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 06 Jan 2012 14:10

Austin wrote:Some old INS Chakra Stories

FIRST HAND | How Shrimp Nearly Wrecked India's First Brush With A Nuke Sub

Wonderful wonderful wonderful.

A young captain aboard a nuclear submarine the first in India -- oh man imagine the experience, the honor, the prestige.

The wow factor.

Man I yam jealous. So very jealous.

SNaik · Post by **SNaik** » 06 Jan 2012 16:11

Teg fires her A-190.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... E-Rbdeu5Lw

aniket · Post by **aniket** » 06 Jan 2012 16:51

Six 533 mm (21in) tubes all bow for a max load of 12 torpedoes. Usually a mix of 2 kT anti-ship nuclear torpedoes, 2 Tsakra (SS-N-15 Starfish) 15kT anti-submarine torpedoes, Charlie I's with 4 anti-ship/submarine HE torpedoes, Charlie II's with 8 anti-ship/submarine torpedoes or a total of 24 AMD-1000 ground mines.

Did the Charlie class INS Chakra come with KT anti ship nuclear torpedoes and this complement ?

SNaik · Post by **SNaik** » 06 Jan 2012 19:41

aniket wrote:
Six 533 mm (21in) tubes all bow for a max load of 12 torpedoes. Usually a mix of 2 kT anti-ship nuclear torpedoes, 2 Tsakra (SS-N-15 Starfish) 15kT anti-submarine torpedoes, Charlie I's with 4 anti-ship/submarine HE torpedoes, Charlie II's with 8 anti-ship/submarine torpedoes or a total of 24 AMD-1000 ground mines.
Did the Charlie class INS Chakra come with KT anti ship nuclear torpedoes and this complement ?

The only thing nuclear was the reactor.

trushant · Post by **trushant** » 06 Jan 2012 20:10

[quote="SNaik]The only thing nuclear was the reactor.[/quote]

SNaik saar .... any news on the Kochi and Chennai ??

tejas · Post by **tejas** » 06 Jan 2012 22:48

Fromhttp://www.manoramaonline.com/cgi-bin/M ... &BV_ID=@@@

IAC 1. OMG

maz · Post by **maz** » 06 Jan 2012 23:05

Could someone translate the Mallu content please?

http://www.manoramaonline.com/cgi-bin/M ... 613&BV_ID=@@@

Thanks in advance!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 06 Jan 2012 23:17

Happy New Year Maz!!!

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 06 Jan 2012 23:49

i dont think its the ads by long shot. looks more like a 10,000t dry bulk goods ship or tanker.

SagarAg · Post by **SagarAg** » 07 Jan 2012 00:09

http://tarmak007.blogspot.com/

Singha Ji the same pic is posted in the blog as IAC-1....it might be it

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 07 Jan 2012 00:16

short...weak...so yindu...

tejas · Post by **tejas** » 07 Jan 2012 01:01

^^^ GD that's the SDRE version. IAC 2 will be more TFTAd and likely have more shakinaw effect. Also the thing aint done yet. I have far more pride in a solid effort desi product than a shiny imported one. Thank Allah for the Indian Navy.

ps. i know you are only joking

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 07 Jan 2012 02:01

Kartik,yes,this is the advantage of having a STOVL fighter when compared with a conventional carrier aircraft,in recovery,which is so much easier and safer with vertical landings.No need to steam into the wind,etc.I mentioned R-Recov, some time ago and the need for the IN to plan for a STOVL version of the FGFA if possible for future carriers.One has to see if the US's def. cuts will also dump the STOVL version of the JSF which the USMC wants for its amphib flat tops.

Here's IT on the PLAN's counter to India's naval strategy.
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/chin ... 67084.html

China plans military base in Northern Pakistan, says report

RELATEDS

China's aggression brings India-Japan closer
Diplomat ill-treated in China, India protests
China has overtaken India in the field of science: PM (*whose fault?)

A secret report prepared by the government's joint intelligence committee has confirmed India's worst fears - China is planning a military base in Pakistan.

The report, based on inputs from the Research and Analysis Wing, is meant for the PM, members of the cabinet committee on security and the national security adviser.

The report says China is keen to build military bases in FATA or the Northern areas while Pakistan wants to counterbalance Indian naval forces by having a naval base in Gwadar. But it does not spell out the exact location of these bases.

"China's deepening strategic penetration of Pakistan and joint plans to set up oil pipelines/ rail/ roads and naval and military bases are a matter of concern," the report says.

It notes that the issue was discussed during the visits of Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari to China and during a visit late last year of the ISI chief, Shuja Pasha, to Beijing. The Chinese Vice- Premier and public security minister reciprocated the visits.
"China's desire for a military presence in Pakistan has been discussed by the political and military leadership of that country in recent months," the report says.

China appears more concerned about Pakistani tribal areas harbouring radicals.
According to the assessment, Chinese presence in these areas might enable the People's Liberation Army to counter the Muslim separatists operating from such areas for terrorist activities in Xinjiang.

What has rung alarm bells in the South Block is that it may not be politically feasible for Pakistan to openly allow China to set up military bases on its soil. But it might allow China to use its military facilities without any public announcement.
Read more at: http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/chin ... 67084.html

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 07 Jan 2012 03:15

If that is a bulk cargo vessel, it certainly has a fine air-ops island for union bosses to keep an eye on those two wide gashes on the sides for the elevators that will carry them lazy headload union workers up and down.

(Captions gist says INS Vikrant floated out into Kochi backwaters, as part of construction process. The ship will look more massive when the topdeck and all those overhangs are hammered on. btw, Tarmak's sideways view looks a lot more bigger. Overall excellent progress for a first-time effort of such a complex program

)

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 07 Jan 2012 03:27

When the IAC was floated out in Dec, its weighed 14,000 tons. Its a long way off the final 40,000.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 07 Jan 2012 03:46

That's roughly 3/4th the length ... the whole ski jump is missing ... so is the aft ... at 262 mtrs it is not much shorter than 65,000 tonners (roughly 300 mtrs).

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 07 Jan 2012 05:13

Video of INS Teg firing the gun was awesome. That is a lot of shells in a short time. Have to salute the recoil and reload equipment that keeps it stable under such stress

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 07 Jan 2012 08:18

tarmak has posted a few more pics now. looks like a additional layer of flight deck will be welded on later and overhang both sides of the ship hull.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 07 Jan 2012 13:15

Vice Admiral AG Thapliyal appointed as the Chief of Personnel of the Indian Navy

SNaik · Post by **SNaik** » 08 Jan 2012 00:12

Two questions:

- What is the reason for this temporary floating of IAC, which ship is going to take it's place in the dock?

- Which dock/docks can accommodate Vikramaditya, if there's a need?

naird · Post by **naird** » 08 Jan 2012 00:18

SNaik wrote:Two questions:

- What is the reason for this temporary floating of IAC, which ship is going to take it's place in the dock?

- Which dock/docks can accommodate Vikramaditya, if there's a need?

As per Tarmak

"
We have established that the vessel can float safely. There have been delays due to various equipment developing serious snags. We have addressed them and have conducted a series of underwater trials, in addition to testing all hi-end technologies time and again. The Phase-II work has begun and it mainly consists of out-fitting jobs. The platform will be re-docked again
"
Guess they just wanted to ensure stability of hull structure and they will be moving it back to dock again for further construction

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 08 Jan 2012 00:29

SNaik wrote:What is the reason for this temporary floating of IAC, which ship is going to take it's place in the dock?

CSL is a civilian shipyard under ministry of surface transport. Many SCI (PSU shipping company) ships are built there. Eg. http://www.ndtv.com/article/kerala/coch ... els-164604

SNaik wrote:Which dock/docks can accommodate Vikramaditya, if there's a need?

http://www.pipavavshipyard.com/drydocks.html
http://cochinshipyard.com/shiprepairfacility.html

Eric Leiderman · Post by **Eric Leiderman** » 08 Jan 2012 01:27

To completely utilise the space in a drydock basin, Multiple vessels are built/repaired
Hence the completion times of the differennt vessels might not co-incide.
Hence they make the in-complete vessel temporarily watertight and flood the dock.
This is normal in commercial shipping.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 08 Jan 2012 04:24

The report earlier said that it was to make space to accomodate another order.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 08 Jan 2012 05:50

^^^ I remember reading that too. It was floated out to build some commercial vessel.

P.S. http://www.defencenow.com/news/446/indi ... -dock.html

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 08 Jan 2012 07:40

Some reports says it is going back within a year. But what will be interesting is the next float-out with more steel piled on. Floodable Pontoons welded on?

btw that faceted side tapering towards the bow is very contemporary looking. Stylish for the season and Carlo Kopp might be getting oiled up

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 08 Jan 2012 10:32

ADS being a upsized Cavour, it has also borrowed the 'stealth' concepts of faceted side in the hull and no doubt in island later
we can expect the final product to look like this
http://worldofgorman.files.wordpress.co ... cavour.jpg
http://www.defencetalk.com/pictures/dat ... uzione.jpg

it will make the vikramaditya look like a ambassador vs honda jazz

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 08 Jan 2012 11:18

Is the 45 thousand ton Vikramaditya capable to docking at Mumbai or will she be based at Karwar ?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 08 Jan 2012 12:08

I believe it was always planned to operate Vik from karwar only.

SNaik · Post by **SNaik** » 08 Jan 2012 15:38

tsarkar wrote:http://www.pipavavshipyard.com/drydocks.html
http://cochinshipyard.com/shiprepairfacility.html

tsarkar, Cochin is too tight lengthwise and too narrow for her angled deck, that leaves only Pipavav. She's a big beast compared to IAC 1.

Singha, hopefully by next launch IAC will look more like this

SNaik · Post by **SNaik** » 08 Jan 2012 16:03

Philip wrote:The report earlier said that it was to make space to accomodate another order.

Exactly, that was the reason of my question. I just wonder if they are able to continue building while she's moored outside the dock. She's already behind the schedule and this will add further to the delay.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 08 Jan 2012 16:17

Some one monitoring its development mentioned the IAC would take another 5 years till it gets commisioned .... lets see I was hoping for 2015.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 08 Jan 2012 17:24

One year was reportedly lost due to non-availability of special steel.I think that another year at least will be added to the time because oif this partial float-out,etc.Al our carriers in future should be able to base them selves at any of the major naval bases on both east and west coats,but Karawr seems to be the key future naval base once the full-fledged repair facilties are established.The problem with Karwar is that there is no industry back-up in the immediate hinterland.What the GOI/State govt. should do is to establish a huge industrial SEZ nearby,or between Mangalore and Karwar,which will have the advantage of the two ports,just as new SEZs in Andhra are taking advantage of the new ports coming up on its coast.

Here is a report on how Russia are modifying their Oscar class SSGNs to accomodate more missiles in each of the 24 silos that house the
SS-N-19/P-700/Shipwreck/Granit missiles.If 3 Brahmos missiles or equiv. are fitted inside each silo,the sub could launch 72 supersonic missiles apart from the heavy load fired from its tubes.Seems to be similar to the options with the ATV.

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htsub/ ... 20107.aspx

Xcpt:

Oscar Shifts From Quality To Quantity
January 7, 2012: Russia is planning to rebuild its Oscar II class nuclear submarines to carry a wide variety of missiles. Currently, each Oscar II carries 24 large anti-ship missiles. But by rebuilding the missile launchers (which are outside the pressure hull) to carry more, but smaller missiles, each Oscar II can carry up to 72 missiles. This makes it easier to overcome the anti-missiles of enemy surface ships. What is lost in range and warhead size will be made up with better target detection and countermeasures technology.......

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 08 Jan 2012 21:50

Philip ,the stratpage article on Oscar modernisation is not fully correct , Oscar 2 is being modernised with Oniks and Kalbir but the number of missile each tube will carry is not very certain , so the 72 missile is not exactly the truth.

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 09 Jan 2012 21:31

SNaik wrote:tsarkar, Cochin is too tight lengthwise and too narrow for her angled deck, that leaves only Pipavav. She's a big beast compared to IAC 1.

That was one of the initial reasons for not acquiring, but later on, I believe one of the shipyards, in all probability CSL, was designated for maintaining the carrier, after infrastructure upgrades. PSL did not figure in the thought process, it was not on the horizon.

SNaik wrote:She's a big beast compared to IAC 1

But IAC 1 will carry more planes (30 vs 28)?

maz · Post by **maz** » 09 Jan 2012 23:13

Could someone please translate the mallu

http://www.manoramaonline.com/cgi-bin/M ... &BV_ID=@@@

Thanks in advance.

Ramana, HNY!!!

Nikhil T · Post by **Nikhil T** » 09 Jan 2012 23:32

maz,
That news has been taken off the website.

Also guys, can we continue the IAC discussion in this new thread INS Vikrant News and Discussion. Thanks!

member_21708 · Post by **member_21708** » 10 Jan 2012 19:21

INS Khukri survivor bats for his captain at Diu memorial
Posted: Mon Jan 09 2012, 02:55 hrs Rajkot:
On Sunday, the tourists who visited INS Khukri Memorial at Diu had a special guide in Pritam Singh to narrate the story of this ill-fated ship, which sank with 18 officers and 176 sailors 40 nautical miles off Diu after being torpedoed on December 9, 1971, during the Indo-Pak war.

Singh (64), one of the 70 survivors and the only one to ever visit this memorial, gave this voluntarily service for two reasons close to his heart: firstly, to personally pay tribute to his colleagues and seniors, and secondly, to clear recent controversy surrounding his former captain that raised questions about possible aversion of the disaster.

“It’s an emotional moment for me. From here, I would like to speak for my captain,” he said, adding, “I had been planning to come here for a long time and speak about the incident. And finally, I did so.”

Singh, who used to look after electronic equipment on Khukri, retried from Navy in 1975 and joined Merchant Navy. He is now settled in his native Moga village in Punjab.

Referring to a leaked Naval report during 2005-2006 and a book, Sinking of Khukri: Survivals Stories, that had raised some doubts, Singh told tourists at the memorial, “It pains when I hear that my then Captain M N Mulla, who was later awarded gallantry award, Mahavir Chakra, might have saved the ship had he opted for a different strategy.”

“Some blame Mulla for reducing speed of the ship that led to the attack. It was not his decision, but of an engineer specially deployed by the administration... Mulla kept telling others till the last minute to abandoned the ship and take the rafts,” he added.

Singh maintained that Khukri’s sonar set could detect only up to 3,000 yards and it was no match to Pakistan’s Hangor submarine that could fire up to 6 km. “I was taking news update on Doordarshan at 9 pm when the first torpedo hit us. It was soon followed by two more.”

According to Singh, the ship took just three minutes to go down and there was not even time to throw inflated liferafts in the sea. Seventy crew members got hold of some rafts thanks to the automatic release system. They spent the whole night in the sea and were rescued by another naval ship Kirpan in the morning, he said.

Singh also spoke for Kirpan’s captain R R Sood. “Some people say Kirpan should have picked us up in the night itself. But I believe Captain Sood took the right decision to not stop, which saved lives of 240 people on board his ship.”

Singh, who plans to spend two days at Union Territory of Diu, wished to get in touch with all the survivors. “I am in touch with only two of them. Wish I could know about others, too,” he told The Indian Express.
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/ins-k ... l/897492/0

akimalik · Post by **akimalik** » 10 Jan 2012 19:45

vikramd wrote:the only one to ever visit this memorial

This statement is factually incorrect, Cmde SN Singh in fact had innaugrated the memorial http://article.wn.com/view/1999/12/22/U ... _memories/
I distinctly remember this coz Cmde SN Singh is a family friend.
In fact my dad was on Kripan that night.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 10 Jan 2012 21:07

Warship captain sacked after misguided order leads to death

New Delhi: The captain of the INS Talwar, a frontline frigate of the Indian Navy, has been removed from command after his order caused the death of a young officer at sea.

Captain Rahul Parmar allegedly ordered young officers on board his ship to dive into the sea off the coast of Gujarat. He allegedly wanted to test their bravery and readiness for emergencies. One of them- a sub-lieutenant and the youngest officer on the ship - drowned. The tragedy occurred on December 20.

The INS Talwar was on patrol duty; it has been used for anti-piracy operations in the recent past.

A Board of Inquiry has been completed by the Navy; it has asked for the removal of Captain Parmar.