Indian Railways Thread

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 09 Dec 2011 12:46

100Cr per km! for 187 mph. Like double the speed of existing max? what would it cost an aam rider?

Building autobahns or interstates should be cheaper, and perhaps this could add on at a later time along these lines.

That would actually enable kalam ji's PURA plan as well.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 09 Dec 2011 14:11

So 664 km long Hyderabad-Vijayawada-Chennai route will cost around 70,000 cr

kmkraoind · Post by **kmkraoind** » 09 Dec 2011 14:17

It seems Japanese have got good pulse of Indian psych. My bet the proposes rail routes are not alone for high speed rail, but they will build 2+2 rail lines in all those routes, giving equal weightage for freight and passenger. If they mention purely freight only, Chinese chamches in India may oppose and worst can defame it during land acquisition process and it will get delayed, so naming of it quite different.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 09 Dec 2011 15:39

Wish they would complete the chennai leg before i die..i want to travel from chennai to coimbatore ...

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 09 Dec 2011 17:16

There is a real possibility of the Chennai-Bengaluru sector progressing. The Japanese want to improve infrastructure in these areas as their investments are growing. In Chennai alone, there are now over 400 Japanese companies functioning. A Japanese-only township is also coming up. Recently, the Japanese ambassador has directly taken up the matter of poor road access to the Chennai & Ennore ports with the PMO. This sector is also highly saturated with almost all the 10 odd pairs of trains running full every day. The affordability of higher cost for the bullet train by passengers may not also be an issue in this sector.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 09 Dec 2011 17:21

People are willing to pay if they get quality...atleast people will try to travel once to be a part it

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 25 Dec 2011 05:52

WR to build deluxe toilets in stations

One can imagine the fate of these toilets after a couple of months, stinky, leaky, dilapidated, and no running water. Funds are always allocated for capex but not for recurring expenses such as maintenance. That is the foresight of our bureaucrats.

Going corporate style to provide better facilities to passengers, Western Railway will set up deluxe toilets including washrooms at Indore, Ratlam and Ujjain railway stations in the coming year, officials said on Wednesday.

Set to be built on the BOT (build, operate and transfer) basis, each toilet would cost at Rs 20 to Rs 25 lakh, sources said.

Three private firms – Arya Bhatt Seva Sansthan, Akhil Bhartiya Prayavaran aur Gramin Vikas Sansthan, and Vasundhara Sanrakshan Smajik Sastha – will construct these toilets, sources said.

Rishirishi · Post by **Rishirishi** » 26 Dec 2011 03:27

SaiK wrote:100Cr per km! for 187 mph. Like double the speed of existing max? what would it cost an aam rider?

Building autobahns or interstates should be cheaper, and perhaps this could add on at a later time along these lines.

That would actually enable kalam ji's PURA plan as well.

There are much better way of investing the money. Even if they could increase the speed to 200 km per hour, the travel time could come down to 3,5 hours. That too at affordable prices.

Christopher Sidor · Post by **Christopher Sidor** » 26 Dec 2011 16:13

Rishirishi wrote:
SaiK wrote:100Cr per km! for 187 mph. Like double the speed of existing max? what would it cost an aam rider?

Building autobahns or interstates should be cheaper, and perhaps this could add on at a later time along these lines.

That would actually enable kalam ji's PURA plan as well.
There are much better way of investing the money. Even if they could increase the speed to 200 km per hour, the travel time could come down to 3,5 hours. That too at affordable prices.

Amen to that. Instead of going for white elephants like this, we should go to increase the speed of all our passenger trains to 200 kmph. And more importantly we should do the following
1) Make our tracks capable of carrying double stacked container trains on all our routes
2) Increase the speed of goods trains to 100 kmph.
3) Make IR carbon free as far as fuel/power is concerned.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 26 Dec 2011 19:23

There is an idea, i don't know whether this can be implemented. It's about installing solar panels for electricity generation all along the lines. Railway don't have to invest in land. It's already there. So why not use it to generate electricity for their own use and also sell the excess power.
Something like this

This has been tried
http://www.gizmag.com/solar-rail-tunnel ... re/135712/
But here it's a tunnel and on top of that they installed the panels. We may not be able to build such huge tunnels. So May be something like in the picture posted above. poles to support the panels that's above or it can be on both sides of the track.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 26 Dec 2011 19:28

Added later. The idea has been tried in a different version in Europe
http://www.constructiondigital.com/unde ... olar-train
For us, this is what i meant.
http://www.sciencephoto.com/media/341332/enlarge

But more close to signal post near the track and to the beginning of the road (end of railway property) . And all across India on a massive scale.
May be combine both and

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 26 Dec 2011 20:33

Within couple of days they will get stolen

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 26 Dec 2011 22:14

I do think the tracks still exist. If the panels don't have anything costly within it and it's uselss silicon substances and if the set cannot be used except in railways systems with their own mechanism for joining etc (let's say the panels are very long, the length of a railway wagon), then the chances of stealing are almost nil.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 27 Dec 2011 00:14

converting the existing tracks to 200kmph is a good thought, however it would not be just the tracks alone but actually the train itself like the design of hydraulics and suspensions, aerodynamics, etc. But, it is worth investment. One must look at France and learn for this. To do this, one has to start from kicking the politicians balls so hard so that he does not visit back again for mistakes. They are empowered to help us grow, and not to eat and grow themselves. people need to protest and start asking questions on these lines. People should chart out requirements, and bring to GoI notice.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 29 Dec 2011 12:43

IR puts bullet train project on fasttrack

Railways' ambitious project of running bullet trains in six select corridors has been fast tracked as the state-run transporter is ready with the Cabinet note for setting up of a high speed rail authority.

Railways' top brass are also in intense negotiations with the visiting Japanese delegation, seeking their cooperation for introduction of a high speed train that can run at 300km per hour.

The authority will be empowered to decide on whether a particular corridor project will be implemented on PPP or non-PPP mode based on pre-feasibility study. Sources said that the authority will have the power to decide on ownership and management of each high-speed corridor. Besides, it will take a final call on project packaging, such as operator, fixed infrastructure and rolling stock.

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 04 Jan 2012 21:25

Govt approves Rs 19,000 cr for J&K rail project.

The government today approved a proposal to sanction over Rs 19,000 crore for the Udhampur- Baramulla rail project that was announced over 17 years ago to connect Kashmir Valley with Jammu.The approval was given at a meeting of the Union Cabinet, official sources said, adding that the fund will be utilised for building rail tracks from Katra in Jammu to Qazigund. The deadline for completion of the project is 2017.

Sources said the delay in completion of the 290-km railway project has led to cost escalation, necessitating sanction of more money.
Union Minister Farooq Abdullah, who was keen on getting this fund sanctioned, was also present in the cabinet meeting.

Work on the 119-km Qazigund-Baramulla track was completed in 2009. It is still underway for Udhampur-Katra and Katra-Qazigund sections and the deadlines for completion of the two sections have been set at 2013 and 2017, respectively.

Christopher Sidor · Post by **Christopher Sidor** » 05 Jan 2012 14:41

Vipul wrote:Govt approves Rs 19,000 cr for J&K rail project.

The government today approved a proposal to sanction over Rs 19,000 crore for the Udhampur- Baramulla rail project that was announced over 17 years ago to connect Kashmir Valley with Jammu.The approval was given at a meeting of the Union Cabinet, official sources said, adding that the fund will be utilised for building rail tracks from Katra in Jammu to Qazigund. The deadline for completion of the project is 2017.

Sources said the delay in completion of the 290-km railway project has led to cost escalation, necessitating sanction of more money.
Union Minister Farooq Abdullah, who was keen on getting this fund sanctioned, was also present in the cabinet meeting.

Work on the 119-km Qazigund-Baramulla track was completed in 2009. It is still underway for Udhampur-Katra and Katra-Qazigund sections and the deadlines for completion of the two sections have been set at 2013 and 2017, respectively.

Very good. Now please start the work on Chandhigarh-Manali-Leh railway line along with extension of railway line from Ramnagar to deep interior of Uttrakhand.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 05 Jan 2012 14:44

Stone-pelting at passing train kills a young GRP cop in Mumbai

A 28-year-old constable with the Government Railway Police (GRP) died on Wednesday, two days after he was hit by a stone on his forehead near Seawoods Darave station on the harbour line. Ironically, he was involved in the GRP's ongoing Railway Safety Week where one of the main focuses is to prevent stone-pelting .

Constable Deepak Jadhav was attached to the Vashi GRP and was recently sent on deputation to assistant commissioner (Central Railway) Sunil Malusare's office at Mankhurd. Jadhav stayed at Kamothe in Navi Mumbai with his wife, Priyanka. The couple was married less than a year ago.

On January 2, GRP constable Deepak Jadhav and his colleagues assisted ACP Sunil Malusare in conducting a special drive at Mankhurd station, prosecuting hawkers and teenaged boys who were travelling in the ladies compartment illegally and handing them over to the RPF (Railway Protection Force). Around 7pm, Jadhav boarded a Panvelbound train. As the train was packed, he stood on the footboard of the general compartment . He was to get off at Mansarovar station and then travel further to his home in Kamothe.

Vasu · Post by **Vasu** » 06 Jan 2012 15:05

The police needs to come down on these murderous pests with the vengeance of God. Forget teaching anything, this society only responds to the danda.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 09 Jan 2012 12:31

About time.....
Anyone for fare increase?

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/ind ... ef=wl_home

Railways may need Rs 10,000 cr investment to tidy up things

The estimated cost for converting the current toilets, which are little more than a hole in the coach floor, could swallow 40 per cent of the Railways' annual passenger revenues.

And, if they go the airline way and use the Western option, the cost would be Rs 25-30 lakh/coach; an Indian version may cost Rs 3-4 lakh/coach.
RLYS-DRDO MODEL

Even the most affordable model of the Indian Railways and the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), by using bio-digesters, would cost about Rs 75,000-1,00,000/unit, according to official estimates.

In this model, a special strain of bacteria is used to biodegrade human waste into harmless and odourless products. The model is under trial in Gwalior-Varanasi Bundelkhand Express for a year, and the Railways plans to adopt 2,500 such units in 2012-13.
VACUUM DISCHARGE

A costlier option is the vacuum toilet model – used in aircraft and trains in developed countries. It costs about Rs 25-30 lakh/coach.

The process involves collecting waste in a retention tank and discharging it at a terminal station later. The model is emerging as a standard in countries such as Germany. The Indian Railways envisages the use of this model in high-end trains such as Shatabdi.
IIT-KANPUR-RDSO MODEL

Another model under trial is developed by IIT-Kanpur and Research Development and Standards Organisation, the Lucknow-based research arm of the Indian Railways. This model uses a mix of recycling the waste and evacuation. Its cost — at about Rs 10 lakh/coach — is higher than the Railways-DRDO model.

Vasu · Post by **Vasu** » 09 Jan 2012 18:52

add to this the cost of teaching the masses how to use the system! Most of the population that travels on the Railways probably has never seen a system, and i'm sure many wouldn't have used even a flushable toilet before.

When even the travelers traveling on 3AC and 2AC manage to trash everything in the coach, I can't imagine what will happen in the rest.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 10 Jan 2012 11:53

Trapped in a coach with bedbugs

Bedbugs made travel a nightmare for passengers in the two-tier air-conditioned coach of train no. 16346 Netravati Express from here to Kurla on Sunday.

The 46 passengers, many of them senior citizens, have rashes and swellings in their skin as the bugs bit them through the journey. Railway officials allegedly showed apathy in meeting their demand to replace the coach, forcing them to travel all the way to the destination suffering the bites.

Kartik Shah, a music composer, and his wife, Nirali Shah, a singer, who boarded the train from Kayamkulam, said there were thousands of small and big “khatmal” (bugs) in the coach, which was unhygienic. As the request to the travelling ticket examiner to take action went unheeded, the commuters pulled the chain near the Mangalore railway station on Sunday night.

“We asked the ticket examiner to call up the Station Superintendent, Mangalore, to replace the coach. When we reached Mangalore and demanded the same, the Station Superintendent and others said they were helpless,” Mr. Shah, who hails from Versova, told The Hindu over the phone. The offer given to us was to allow spraying of disinfectants or to wait eight hours to get the coach replaced.

A section of the passengers turned their ire against fellow passengers as they were not ready to wait any further in Mangalore and wanted to reach Mumbai on Monday evening.

“We had no other option but to get back in the same coach. There were two six-month-old babies and foreign tourists in the coach. It was a horrible night with bedbugs appearing from blankets and curtains,” he said.

Ms. Shah said the journey would not fade easily from mind. “It was a nightmare with bedbugs everywhere and no place to go. There are handwritten complaints of passengers who had travelled in the coach last November saying that there were many rats and advising not to travel in the coach,” she said. The ticket examiner informed them that railway officials in Thiruvananthapuram knew about bedbugs in the coach.

V.K. Sukumaran, 64, a retired railway employee, who was one of the passengers, said he was bitten all night by the bedbugs and had rashes now. P.G. Shankaram, Professor in SNDT University, Mumbai, is worried as the bugs have gone inside his luggage and belongings.

“We are worried that all these will come into our house now and make life miserable,” he said.

When the train reached Kurla on Monday, the railway officials were on the platform to inspect the coach. Mr. Shah said that after seeing the bedbugs, the officials said it was for Southern Railway to act as the coach belonged to it.{that is how Indian officials shirk their responsibility. The coach might belong to any zone but the bugs do not make any such distinction, do they ?}

It is to be seen whether the coach has been replaced or it is part of the rake of the train that makes its return journey.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 10 Jan 2012 13:39

Beach-Arakkonam Section to come under Train Protection Warning System

Southern Railway will extend the Train Protection Warning System (TPWS) currently deployed in the Madras Beach-Central-Gummidipoondi EMU sector to the 68-km Beach-Arakkonam section.

The Railway Board has sanctioned Rs.27 crore for the project and tender works are under process, official sources told The Hindu .

The project involves linking up about 400 signals on the Beach-Arakkonam route and laying track-side equipment (installation and wiring of Line-side Electronic Units) and their interfacing with balises (electronic beacons) installed on the track.

One of the priorities for the Railways as it seeks to expand the TPWS circuit would be to avoid the teething troubles that surfaced during the pilot phase on the Beach-Gummidipoondi sector. Officials point out that the TPWS provides additional layers of safety in a fully automatic signal circuit like the Chennai Division. Following the adoption of European Rail Traffic Management System in suburban services in Chennai —the first time the technology was deployed outside Europe. Meanwhile, Indian Railway has also commissioned its arm, RITES, to develop a more basic version of TPWS to spread this system of signalling wider in the Railway network.

At present, barely 3 per cent of the route kilometres on the Railways are covered by automatic signal systems.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 10 Jan 2012 16:52

SSridhar wrote:Bedbugs made travel a nightmare for passengers in the two-tier air-conditioned coach of train no. 16346 Netravati Express from here to Kurla on Sunday.

I am not a very frequent traveller (these days) by train. But my experience that coach cleanliness and hygeine is going from bad to worse. Rats etc. I now see in pretty much every coach. Did not have the privelege of being treated by bed bugs. Have seen some similar sentiments at IRFCA forums also.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 10 Jan 2012 19:32

One sees the benefit of the old wooden sleepers and rexine coverings w/ no bedding.

Bring your own bedding folks. Problem solved.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 10 Jan 2012 20:29

Sachin wrote:I am not a very frequent traveller (these days) by train. But my experience that coach cleanliness and hygeine is going from bad to worse. Rats etc. I now see in pretty much every coach.

There is no maintenance and cleaning at railway yards. The yards themselves present decrepit state with bushes and creepers all over the place. We may even find snakes. Some years back, a cleaning unit used to be towed to the platform at junctions and the toilets used to be cleaned. That has all stopped for a number of years now. Why did they discontinue this practice, for example ?

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 10 Jan 2012 23:21

Vasu wrote:add to this the cost of teaching the masses how to use the system! Most of the population that travels on the Railways probably has never seen a system, and i'm sure many wouldn't have used even a flushable toilet before.

When even the travelers traveling on 3AC and 2AC manage to trash everything in the coach, I can't imagine what will happen in the rest.

And we had arguments made in other threads how the govt is forcing people's toilet habits to modern ways rather than go out in the open. Now if trains are not restricted to elites alone, then the monies spent by the govt in giving free toilets to rural folks below poverty level is worth every paisa.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 11 Jan 2012 07:48

Better solution

stop the train at regular intervals and let people go out in the open

... just like long distance bus travel

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 11 Jan 2012 12:26

krishnan wrote:Better solution

stop the train at regular intervals and let people go out in the open ... just like long distance bus travel

This was what was being done until the early 1900's, when passengers had to toilets at stations. trains would stop at nondescript stations for such breaks, but there were huge complaints, hence toilets installed in trains.

Vasu · Post by **Vasu** » 11 Jan 2012 14:56

So that English letter from the Bengali gentleman that apparently started it all for Railway toilets over a hundred years ago - is that an urban myth or true?

I suppose then once these toilets are installed, when the coaches are at stations and/or are parked for the night, unless they're locked, they can be used as free loos for the slum/other populations living around the station.

In fact, if there is a bacteria that takes human crap and turns it into non-polluting natural substances, there could be so many more applications for them around the country. Mumbai, the financial capital of India with much of its population crapping outdoors, could use many such products.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 11 Jan 2012 19:51

Vasu wrote:I suppose then once these toilets are installed, when the coaches are at stations and/or are parked for the night, unless they're locked,

This happens already. In several stations, passengers trains are free water tankers that poor villagers jump on to and drain the water if passengers leave the doors open.

WRT toilet, villagers sadly prefer the open air. Compared to tight, aromatic, uncleaned and water starved toilets, the open air is so airy-fairy free.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 14 Jan 2012 11:47

Trains targetted with petrol bombs in South Tamilnadu

The recent incidents of hurling petrol bombs on trains in Ramanathapuram district have posed danger to the lives of innocent people, railway and public properties.

The incidents that exposed the lapses in providing security to the passengers travelling on trains have opened up a Pandora Box among the security agencies.

Rameswaram-Chennai Express and Madurai-Ramewswaram Passenger trains were targeted by the unknown antisocial elements on a single day on Wednesday.

Another train was attacked with petrol bomb during the second week of September last year. The interesting aspect of the incidents was that all of them were targeted between Chathirakudi and Paramakudi railway stations. {These are the areas where people take pride in their 'aruval' (machette) culture.} It was fortunate that none was injured or killed in the incidents, thanks to the timely action of passengers, who put out the fire by using water from toilets and washbasins of the respective compartments.

The worrying aspect is that though First Information Reports were filed in all three cases, none was arrested so far. As many as five months elapsed since the first incident.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 14 Jan 2012 12:57

well fisrt the antisocial elements were throwing stones at trains. Now they have graduated to petrol bombs, what next, machine guns and RPGs?

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 14 Jan 2012 21:35

The PRC thread now has some discussion on HSR viability or lack of. So if that is true why is someone of Sreedharan's stature signing up for HSR and openly speaking of it as an inevitability at least for short stretches. IMO we need to bite the bullet and try it out in any case, economics of it all notwithstanding. In places where land is a real premium, wide 4 + 4 lane roads to take all the traffic is just not going to happen.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 18 Jan 2012 06:11

New Policy to Attract Private Participation in Railways

Facing a huge backlog of pending projects worth Rs 1 lakh crore, Railways is planning to opt for build, operate and transfer (BOT) model as part of a new investment policy to attract private participation in rail connectivity and capacity augmentation projects.

Besides BOT, cost sharing model for doubling and multiple line projects will also be a part of the new Railway policy.

“The new policy would be a comprehensive one and more investment-friendly,” said a senior Railway Ministry official involved with the finalisation of the policy.

Though there are two existing policies to attract private investment, it did not bring required results. The Railways had earlier formulated a policy for industry connectivity in 2010 and coal and iron ore sector connectivity policy in 2011 to attract private sector.

Railways have a huge backlog of pending projects that require more than Rs 1 lakh crore in investments. While new line projects need about Rs 65,000 crore, the doubling and gauge conversation projects require about Rs 40,000 crore for the implementation of these projects.

“Though some proposals came from private players for rail link projects under the existing policies, the same could not be implemented due to various factors. There were problems on implementation side. So we decided to formulate a new policy altogether addressing the issues that had cropped up during the implementation stage,” he said.

Unless the Railways do not grudge a reasonable RoI for these private partners, there won't be a good response.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 18 Jan 2012 11:40

SSridhar wrote:Stone-pelting at passing train kills a young GRP cop in Mumbai

Once I saw a lady living in a shanty near the railway tracks on the Mumbai-Pune route with a stone in her hand, poised to throw it at the passing train.

member_21708 · Post by **member_21708** » 18 Jan 2012 19:09

Rly makes ID proof mandatory for AC passengers

New Delhi: Faced with increasing incidents of misuse of tickets, Railways have made it mandatory for all passengers travelling in AC classes to carry an identity proof with them. So far, carrying ID proof was required only for passengers travelling with e-tickets or with tatkal tickets.

The decision will come into effect from February 15 in all trains across the country, said a Railway Ministry official. The official said any one passenger in a group will be required to carry the ID proof.

http://zeenews.india.com/news/nation/rl ... 53414.html

dinakar · Post by **dinakar** » 22 Jan 2012 18:07

A very good website to get a idea about locomotives used in different divisions.. clicky

Clicky Line haul cost Coaching
Clicky Line haul cost of freight
Clicky Details of energy charges

neerajb · Post by **neerajb** » 24 Jan 2012 14:42

Vasu wrote:In fact, if there is a bacteria that takes human crap and turns it into non-polluting natural substances, there could be so many more applications for them around the country. Mumbai, the financial capital of India with much of its population crapping outdoors, could use many such products.

Sometime back visited the Sulabh toilet museum in Delhi. They have a working model of toilet which recycles everything that goes inside it

Actually they have a working loo outside their premises which is open to all. The processing plant is insdie, they take the stuff, recycle the water and pakistaniyat. They provide free of cost natural gas to two households for two hours daily. Lighthing in the garden uses the electricity generated by burning the gas and the recycled water is used for gardening. The recycled water was so clear that one japanese gent asked whether it is safe to drink

which was not the case. The free DVDs were a delight to watch, It covered the change Sulabh is bringing to the lives of ordinary Afghans by their activities in Afghanistan backed by GOI.

I believe it won't be too difficult to adapt the system for IR use. Infact the DRDO recycling model sounds very similar. Cheapest and best option.

Cheers....

Vasu · Post by **Vasu** » 30 Jan 2012 12:32

And I wonder what stops us from implementing these across the country on a war scale!

Its not that we don't have solutions, but most times, we dont have the scale.