India and ASEAN / East Asia

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 03 Nov 2011 21:43

Arav wrote:India is engaging with Japan, Vietnam. But Phillipines is missing from Indian radar. Phillipines is placed at a very critical location. gurus any comment why?

They have some problems with India. It is also a semi US colony. It does not have a independent policy

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Nov 2011 03:56

We can discuss South Korea in this thread

Klaus · Post by **Klaus** » 11 Nov 2011 06:20

ramana wrote: What we are seeing now is the joint IN and 7th fleet merger of operations.

India needs to be clear in execution of 'Look East' policy, especially after recent developments such as the Indo-Pacific Ocean initiative made by the West.

Japan and South Korea need to be conveyed in the right tone that they must not confuse our actions under Look East policy as some kind of renewed Western initiative. IOW, do not let the message get drowned under.

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 11 Nov 2011 23:50

"They have some problems with India. It is also a semi US colony. It does not have a independent policy"

They( Philippines) are likely to make the more lowbrow-not ultra lowbrow- remarks about India, which essentially derives from a crude type of US influence. But the more elevated American influence passes them by utterly. And this is generally true of the South Koreans and Japanese as well. For example, you won't see a Filipino or South Korean quoting from or referring to, Will Durant, Abe Rosenthal, Jack Anderson or Robert Payne. Some 2nd or 3rd order Associated Press or CNN feature will catch their attention.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 12 Nov 2011 00:50

As Filipinos get richer they will lean towards India.

Please do look at pre-Philipain Philippines! What was there language what was their culture?

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 12 Nov 2011 03:11

I don't think it is proper to call Filipinos as mentally enslaved to the Americans, as not independent! The Chinese tend to portray India the same way, and obviously it is neither true nor welcome!

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 12 Nov 2011 03:54

US Naval update for 9th Nov

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 12 Nov 2011 09:07

"The Chinese tend to portray India the same way, and obviously it is neither true nor welcome!"

Those Chinese who try to make that equivalence, are real idiots. There is no comparison, in this case, in the diversity of opinions, perspectives, as well as real examples of Indians travelling to China and freely displaying their assessments, both positive and negative, of China in the Indian media.

What would those Chinese have the Indians say, that China is great, the Chinese government is great, and communism is wonderful? Because this is not at all the criticism that Indians can level at Filipinos, South Koreans and others.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 12 Nov 2011 12:12

Varoon Shekhar wrote:"The Chinese tend to portray India the same way, and obviously it is neither true nor welcome!"

Those Chinese who try to make that equivalence, are real idiots. There is no comparison, in this case, in the diversity of opinions, perspectives, as well as real examples of Indians travelling to China and freely displaying their assessments, both positive and negative, of China in the Indian media.

The Chinese say it because it suits their narrative of India not being in the same league as themselves as a power in our own right.

Varoon Shekhar wrote:What would those Chinese have the Indians say, that China is great, the Chinese government is great, and communism is wonderful? Because this is not at all the criticism that Indians can level at Filipinos, South Koreans and others.

Indians may use the narrative to justify the present lack of identification among these people with the Indian Civilization as was earlier on the case. We may be unwilling to admit that there was a tangible loss of Indian influence over the region, which is understandable considering that we were ourselves colonized for so long - physically and mentally.

In the mean time these countries (Philippines, South Korea) have started looking upon other people as worthy of emulation and not at us! We would rather think of them as 'dependent on' or 'enslaved by' the West as being the problem rather than our loss of influence as being the culprit!

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 12 Nov 2011 23:36

"The Chinese say it because it suits their narrative of India not being in the same league as themselves as a power in our own right."

Yes, that seems to be their sole interest vis-a-vis India, showing that they are better, and wanting India to acknowledge it.

Interestingly, this is not India's approach to Singapore, Philippines, Thailand or South Korea. Indians are not puzzled or dismayed that these countries refuse to recognise that India is "superior". What puts Indians off is the absence of closer identification, empathy, moral support and awareness of India in a more holistic sense.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 12 Nov 2011 23:46

The US 5th Fleet is supporting the Centcom.

THis is exclusive and the area includes the central asia.

Klaus · Post by **Klaus** » 20 Nov 2011 07:37

Indonesian President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono said he had received assurances from both the US and Australia that the move would not threaten his nation's integrity or sovereignty.

The Australian prime minister is expected to discuss the matter again with Dr Yudhoyono when she meets him for bilateral talks in Bali on Sunday.

Earlier in the day, Ms Gillard rejected concerns that the new military pact could have a negative impact on stability in the region.

However, it is clear the plan has caused friction, with Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak sayimg he did not back any development that would undermine regional security.

The comments from Dr Yudhoyono also come after a top Indonesian military chief warned the Australian and US plan could fuel tensions regarding an ongoing maritime dispute over the South China Sea.

Indonesian military commander Admiral Agus Suhartono warned the increased US military presence, which is seen as a hedge against the growing influence of China in the Asia-Pacific region, could draw Indonesia into the dispute.

What is somewhat unsettling is the silence from the Philippines, either they have given their prior consent or they are waiting to join the protest queue at a later time.

shyam · Post by **shyam** » 20 Nov 2011 07:44

How do Indonesians trust Aussies after separation of East Timore?

Klaus · Post by **Klaus** » 21 Nov 2011 05:54

shyam wrote:How do Indonesians trust Aussies after separation of East Timore?

Indonesia is looking out for western support and aid to separatist and secessionist movements in West Irian Jaya, which is the most likely flashpoint after East Timor.

The US-Oz alliance has a virtual line of sight to these areas from their ELINT centers in Guam, Darwin and Port Moresby.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 22 Nov 2011 03:27

Neighborly warmth infuses RI-India ties

Neighborly warmth infuses RI-India ties
Ashwini Devare, Singapore | Fri, 11/18/2011 8:57 AM A | A | A |
Today, a resource hungry India, eager to boost its presence in Southeast Asia, is wooing resource-rich Indonesia.

The unquenchable thirst for energy has Indian companies flocking to Indonesia, infusing a new vigor into a centuries-old friendship that was fairly forgotten and neglected until the start of this decade.

Housed in the same continent and separated by a short stretch of the Indian Ocean, India and Indonesia are Asia’s two biggest democracies with a mosaic canvas- multiethnic, pluralistic with a religious diversity.

Yet, despite their geographic proximity and civilizational links, India and Indonesia looked past each other for the most part of their modern history.

India may have initiated its Look East Policy back in 1991, but Look-West remained the cornerstone of its foreign policy.

Dogged by its Hindu rate of growth, preoccupied by the Cold War, Pakistan, and a war with China, India remained mired in its own problems. Consequently, Indonesia remained largely missing from India’s radar.

Today, the fruits of the Look East Policy are slowly but surely ripening. For the first time in 60 years, India invited Indonesian President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono as its chief guest for its Republic Day celebrations earlier this year.

The bonhomie between the two countries is mirrored by robust investments and trade figures, with bilateral trade topping US$13 billion in 2010.

Indonesia is India’s second biggest trade partner in ASEAN and both countries have ambitious goals of boosting trade to $25 billion over the next five years.

Both are currently negotiating a Comprehensive Economic Cooperation Agreement (CECA) that builds on the framework of the landmark ASEAN-India free trade agreement signed in 2009.

On the security front too there have been significant strides, with both signing a Defense Cooperation Agreement in 2001.

“The weight of geopolitics has asserted itself,” explains Navrekha Sharma, former Indian ambassador to Indonesia, who is writing a book on bilateral ties between India and Indonesia.

“Indonesia has become stable, it has become a convincing democracy, it has managed to resolve its ethnic conflicts, it has dealt firmly with terrorism. Simply size, population and expanse of Indonesia makes it the undisputed leader of ASEAN.

“So yes, that is the country we must deal with, even in dealing with ASEAN. Our relations with Indonesia will be watched because they will set the model for our relations with other countries in ASEAN.”

A view increasingly echoed in the corridors of South Block in New Delhi, which sees Indonesia as a gateway to increasing India’s presence in Southeast Asia, a bedrock for successful engagement with ASEAN.

The timing of India’s rapprochement with ASEAN coincides with China’s spreading footprint and access to the region. To a large extent, China’s rise has forced India not just to glance, but to really focus east, reflecting a strategic shift in mindset in New Delhi.

With the backdrop of China’s growing military might in the South China Sea, the theater of the wider Asia-Pacific landscape has acquired a growing geopolitical salience, top on the minds of leaders convening at the ASEAN and East Asia Summits chaired by Indonesia this week. The stage is being set in the balmy island of Bali, the lovely locus for the summits, not only for the traditional wayang kulit (puppet show) performance, but for a high-octane drama in diplomacy, with India, China, the US, Russia and ASEAN engaging in intense realpolitik.

Meantime, India’s enterprising entrepreneurs are fuelling the rapid pace of engagement with Indonesia by cherry picking opportunities in the country’s coal, oil and gas and mining sectors. India’s top firms — the Tatas, Birlas, Reliance, Essar, Jindal Steel, all have substantial investments in Indonesia.

While Indian auto giants Bajaj and TVS manufacture motorcycles in Indonesia, the Tatas own 30 percent of Indonesia’s two biggest coal mines. Last year Godrej became the first Indian consumer products company to acquire an Indonesian FMCG company, PT Megasari.

“Indonesia is a very exciting market for us with its 240 million consumers,” says Naveen Gupta, Megasari’s Chief Operating Officer, who spearheaded the acquisition. “Every day we touch 4 to 5 million homes with our products. Indonesia is a price-conscious market, with a modern retail trade mix. It is very similar to India, yet unique. Whenever I describe Indonesia, I say it is like India in ASEAN.”

Indonesians have welcomed Indian investment proactively, says Swati Chopra, consumer analyst with Bank of America, Merrill Lynch, who follows Indonesia closely. “While regulatory challenges and land acquisition are the hurdles Indian investors face, there is an incremental effort on the part of the Indonesians to attract foreign direct investment from India. There are also preliminary discussions to allow access to Indian
pharmaceuticals.”

“Indian investors are more humble and adaptable,” says a Jakarta-based Indonesian analyst. “There has been no major public backlash against the Indian investors, mainly because of their willingness and openness to be a minority shareholder, even in energy sectors like coal. That goes down well with the locals.”

Indian corporations and analysts point out to the remarkable resilience and strong economic fundamentals that have allowed Indonesia to rebuild itself and emerge as one of the more politically and economically stable countries in the region. Buoyed by strong domestic spending and investment, Indonesia has not only shielded itself from the crippling blows of the global recession far better than its export-dependent neighbors, Singapore and Thailand, but has come out as one of the best performing economies in the region, growing at 6.5 per cent this year.

Yet, despite the strides India and Indonesia have made, there is still a big information gap that separates the world’s second and fourth most populous nations. A majority of Indians remain largely oblivious to their huge democratic neighbor.

That the southern tip of the Nicobar Islands is less than 100 nautical miles from the Aceh coast of Indonesia is a geographic reality few are aware of. The Indonesian elections in July 2009 received next-to-nothing coverage in the Indian media. Like India, Indonesia too has a large population of young people, with nearly 30 percent of its population under the age of 15.

While Bollywood, notably Shah Rukh Khan, remains hugely popular in Indonesia, there is still a big chasm dividing both sides. That there are no direct flights connecting India and Indonesia is a glaring reflection of how relations have been neglected for too long.

India and Indonesia are in the nascent stages of rediscovering their old civilizational friendship. There is a lot to learn and build on. The good neighborliness is the denouement of a relationship that evolved through history, and was built on a foundation tried and tested over centuries.

Given the commonalities, the synthesis of traditions and values, it is a given that the path for closer alliance and understanding is just a matter of time. The modern chapter in the ancient relations between India and Indonesia has only just begun.

The writer, a former BBC correspondent, now is executive producer for Vichaar media.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 22 Nov 2011 14:57

>>That there are no direct flights connecting India and Indonesia

WTF? Seriously? This is crazy! With trade of over $13 bn?

Klaus · Post by **Klaus** » 07 Dec 2011 19:40

Thai Red Shirt leader surrenders voluntarily.

On Tuesday the hardliner turned himself in to a court in Pattaya to face separate charges related to the Red Shirts' storming of an Asian summit in the Thai resort city in 2009, forcing its cancellation as leaders were evacuated.

He was granted bail in that case

Yingluck Shinawatra is proving her worth, getting this group to come to the negotiating table, what needs to be seen is her methods in the restive Muslim southern region.

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 19 Dec 2011 13:15

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/19/world ... ml?_r=1&hp
North Korean Dictator Kim Jong-il Dies
"SEOUL, South Korea — Kim Jong-il, the North Korean leader who realized his family’s dream of turning his starving country into a minor nuclear-weapons power even as the isolated nation sank further into despotism, died on Saturday of a heart attack, according to the country’s state-run media.
The North had kept news of the death of its leader secret for roughly two days, perhaps a sign that the leadership was struggling to position itself for what many believe could be a particularly perilous transition. A few hours after the announcement, the powerful Workers’ Party and government officials released a joint statement suggesting Mr. Kim’s chosen successor, his youngest son, Kim Jong-un, was in charge.
The Workers’ Party announcement said that “Under the leadership of our comrade Kim Jong-un, we have to turn sadness into strength and courage, and overcome today’s difficulties.”
Kim Jong-un is believed to be in his late 20s and his youth and relative inexperience could make him vulnerable to power struggles; some analysts have questioned the depth of the military’s support for him.
Kim Jong-il’s death came after a long illness, dating to 2008, that American intelligence agencies believed involved some form of a stroke. The North has indicated he was 69 years old, but scholars have said he could have been a year older......"
Gautam

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 23 Dec 2011 07:48

x-post
India-Pacific strategic environment: IDSA

Before lifting the Uranium ban, Australia had floated the idea of a trilateral strategic dialogue with India and the US in October 2011. The idea was proposed to India through high-level diplomatic channels on the lines of the then proposed India-US-Japan tripartite talks, the first round of meeting of which was finally held in Washington on December 19, 2011, to discuss the India-Pacific strategic environment.

Australia has noted that China is ambitiously claiming South China Sea as its backwaters and the PLA Navy is acquiring long legs through surface platforms. The India-Pacific powers, including Japan, South Korea, Indonesia, Vietnam and the US have expressed their concerns over an assertive China. India has been engaging the US Pacific Command in Hawaii, Japan, South Korea and Vietnam through high-profile bilateral visits but Australia somehow has not figured in India’s strategic calculus prominently. There seems to be some reluctance in India to engage Australia seriously as the latter often tends to punch above its weight.

Australia may get caught in the US-China crossfire as it agrees to host nearly 2,500 US marines in the north, thereby escalating political and military tension in the region....In fact, one can also argue that the Australian decision to strengthen the US presence in the region may in due course force China to shift its attention away from the Indian borders towards the South China Sea. From India’s strategic interests, increased US military presence in the region could be a balancing factor. It is to be noted that India’s Oil and Natural Gas Corporation Ltd. (ONGC) is involved in exploring oil along with Vietnamese oil firms in the South China Sea.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 23 Dec 2011 11:28

NE security prompts Army chief’s visit to Myanmar

Shishir Gupta, Hindustan Times
New Delhi, December 23, 2011

With the security of north-east states in view and intensification of bilateral defence cooperation on the anvil, India is sending army chief General VK Singh to Myanmar on a five-day official visit next month. Top government sources said General Singh will be in Naypyidaw, the country’s capital, between January 5 and 9, 2012, and interact with the new top leadership of the country with an aim to clearing Myanmar of Indian northeast insurgent camps.

India sent satellite images of these camps across the Moreh border through home ministry channels after Myanmar President Thein Sein visited India last October.

Myanmar, on its part, has raised the issue of camps of the Kachin Liberation Army in the Tirap-Changlang sector in Arunachal Pradesh.

While the finer points of Singh’s visit are being discussed at the level of national security advisor Shiv Shanker Menon, New Delhi is ready to supply arms to Naypyidaw even though the latter only wants repair and maintenance of its weapons.

However, one of the key agendas of the visit is to offer to build the Ledo-Pangsau Pass-Tanai section of Stillwell Road, which leads to Yunan province in China. The contract of the Tanai-Pangsau pass road section was awarded to a Chinese joint venture last year after the ministry of external affairs and R&AW did not show interest in building the strategic road.

Although the sector commanders on both sides are in touch with each other on a quarterly basis, New Delhi wants to intensify engagement so that insurgent groups are choked of arms supplies and cadre in the north-eastern states.

New Delhi senses an opportunity in this as Bangladesh is doing its bit to stop anti-Indian activities on its soil.

It is learnt that the outcome of Gen Singh’s visit may pave the way for defence minister AK Antony going to Naypyidaw

India’s democracy push in Myanmar paying off

Jayanth Jacob, Hindustan Times
New Delhi, December 23, 2011

With an eye on China, India is playing its democracy card to the hilt in Myanmar, where pro-democracy leader and Nobel laureate Aung San Suu Kyi is set to contest in the by-elections early next year. New Delhi believes its position of engaging the leadership in Myanmar — a key neighbour and an important country in its Look East policy matrix — is paying dividends, even with the US.
India’s view is that more democratic countries and institutions will help check the Chinese influence on Myanmar, which has acknowledged that the experience gained from interacting with India can help its “democratisation process”.[/i]

After the recent visit of a parliamentary delegation from Myanmar to India, the Myanmar foreign ministry conveyed to New Delhi the interaction had significantly contributed to consolidation of ties.

India has been playing an active role in Myanmar’s transition to democracy. Earlier this month, Myanmar authorities granted permission to Suu Kyi’s National League for Democracy (NLD) party to rejoin mainstream politics. This is being seen as a key reform movement aimed at the transition.

Last year, the junta had denied NLD the status of a legal political party after it chose to boycott a rare multi-party poll. For New Delhi, the world taking note of the democratic transition in Myanmar is a welcome development. In December, US secretary of state Hillary Clinton became the highest ranking official from the country to visit Myanmar in the past 50 years.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 23 Dec 2011 20:38

Acharya wrote:Neighborly warmth infuses RI-India ties

Neighborly warmth infuses RI-India ties
Ashwini Devare, Singapore | Fri, 11/18/2011 8:57 AM A | A | A |
Dogged by its Hindu rate of growth,
The writer, a former BBC correspondent, now is executive producer for Vichaar media.

You cannot expect anything good from commies and stupid Media like BBC. They don't want to accept their failure but want to put the blame on evil yindoos. The slow Socialist growth rate under Congress rule is called Yindoo growth rate? I thought the above 10 percent growth rate under Yindoo Modi was the only growth rate that can qualify to be Hindu.
Now what is the above 10 percent growth under the Hindu nationalist BJP called?

nithish · Post by **nithish** » 24 Dec 2011 03:09

India, Thailand work on defence cooperation pact

Stepping up its engagement with countries in East Asia, India on Friday held the first meeting of defence dialogue with Thailand, taken in line with the agreement between the two countries reached earlier this year.

Both sides exchanged views on the regional security issues and reviewed ongoing programmes including joint exercises, training of personnel, diplomatic sources said adding that work has begun on a possible Memorandum of Understanding in the area.

The dialogue also assumes significance since India has invited Thailand Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra to be the chief guest at next year's Republic Day parade. Thailand Foreign Minister Surapong Tovichakchaikul, is scheduled to visit New Delhi from December 26 to 28 for a meeting of the Joint Commission.

The defence dialogue with Bangkok comes close on the heels of New Delhi's similar engagement with countries including South Korea, Japan, Vietnam, among others in East Asia.

Defence cooperation between India and Thailand comprises regular joint exercises/joint maritime patrols near the international maritime boundary to counter terrorism, piracy and smuggling; training of officers at each others' Armed Forces Training institutions and participation as observers in military exercises, staff talks and exchange of trainee visits at various levels.

COASTAL SECURITY

During the visit of the then Thailand Prime Minister, Abhijit Vejjajiva, in April this year, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh announced that both New Delhi and Bangkok agreed to strengthen defence cooperation by having senior official-level dialogue between the Defence Ministries. Both sides decided to cooperate to secure vital sealanes of communications in the Indian Ocean.

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 30 Dec 2011 08:26

Importance of Laos

Laos's $7.5 billion economy is 790 times smaller than China's, a 14th of the size of Vietnam's, and roughly two percent of Thailand -- but it has more than doubled since 2006, as has GDP per capita, which jumped from $600 to $1,200, according to World Bank data. A $7 billion Chinese-led high-speed railway linking China with Thailand is planned and national carrier Lao Airlines last month expanded its fleet of eight propeller planes with the $91 million purchase of two Airbus A320 airliners. Perhaps its most significant leap was a stock exchange launched in January, a $20 million venture with Korea Exchange, Asia's fourth-largest bourse operator.

Export revenue from copper and gold from Laos's two big mines was projected to reach $1.3 billion and $240 million respectively this year, double the 2009 figure, according to the International Monetary Fund. Thai firms dominate hydropower. With dozens of new dams, Laos aims to become the "Battery of Southeast Asia", providing 8 percent of its power by 2025, with the potential to generate 28,000 megawatts. Half of that is committed to neighbours by 2015.

Official data since 2000 shows Vietnam has invested $2.77 billion, China $2.71 billion and Thailand $2.68 billion, and they have little competition. Vietnam has a foot-in because of its close political relationship, but China appears to be using its wealth to muscle in on Hanoi's turf.

China sees Laos as its gateway to Southeast Asia's 600 million people and $2 trillion GDP, and bilateral trade with Laos has grown 40 percent to $1.1 billion annually since 2009. Chinese banks have offered loans to Laos to hire Chinese firms to build infrastructure, including $3 billion from the China Development Bank alone. China's growing presence is also contentious, with concern about gang crime linked to Chinese casinos and an influx of migrant workers settling after work is finished. "Vietnam still has the inside track politically. What Laos does is try to balance its relations with Vietnam and China, not favouring one over the other, and get benefits from both."

Klaus · Post by **Klaus** » 30 Dec 2011 09:16

Laos is to Vietnam what Taiwan is to PRC. An elusive target but which has been scheduled for absorption, either through pincer movements or in one fell swoop. The credit should go to the Vietnamese for keeping this subject under wraps for so long.

Even with respect to Indian interests, Laos just gives an additional space for Brit-CPC meddling and drug smuggling networks, they get a clear conduit across from Myanmar to Brunei to East Timor and beyond.

IMO need to include the Mekong river basin as part of our river basins model, i.e Ashta-Sindhu and not Saptha-Sindhu.

Airavat · Post by **Airavat** » 19 Jan 2012 08:17

More Indian tourists exploring ASEAN region

“Everybody is talking Cambodia and Vietnam now. The restored temples at Angkor Wat draw tourists to this ancient Cambodian city with mysterious past and rich cultural heritage,” Mr Talha said, adding that infinite stretches of powdery sand were one of Vietnam’s attractions.

“Elderly people from south Indian families show interest in visiting the Vishnu temple in Cambodia. They combine pilgrimage and leisure in Malaysia and Thailand,” he said.

Karthik Subramanian, who visited the Vishnu temple with wife, was mighty impressed by the ancient civilisation.

“We saw battle scenes from the Ramayana and the Mahabharata on the temple walls. The place is considered the seat of a civilization that dominated South Asia for years,” he said.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 16 Feb 2012 06:08

Account of blasts in Bangkok:
http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/securit ... -rock-city

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 16 Feb 2012 19:43

Thai police looking for a fifth suspect.
http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/2 ... mb-suspect

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 16 Mar 2012 20:54

Temple tantrum in Cambodia

A copy of the famed Angkor Wat is to be built alongside India's Ganges River by an Indian religious trust to reflect its admiration of the 12th-century original in Cambodia. The flattery does not please Cambodians nor the government in Phnom Penh, amid fears that their temple's uniqueness will be lost - along with tourists lured to the concrete upstart.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 16 Mar 2012 22:03

let them rebuild one of the temples destroyed by Islamics. then, they can talk about building replicas. if they have free money floating around, perhaps they should channel it in that direction. I suggest "expansion" of the temples complex in Ayodhya or Mathura. an ideal project in Mathura would be to build a temple which towers over the ugly mosque that was erected over the ruins of the preexisting temple that was destroyed by the Islamics. the Mosque was built to look down on the remaining small portion of the temple. it is time to retake the initiative by building a much larger temple, which will tower over the mosque.

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 16 Mar 2012 22:35

^^ The Mahavir Mandir Trust says they have $20 million to throw around. Instead of wasting it on a replica of a temple that has caught their Acharya's fancy, it would be better spent on, say, a university or boarding school project - one that gives their students a Dharmic education (Sanskrit, darshanas, etc) in addition to the best in modern science and humanities training. This is investing in human resources, who are the real building blocks of Vedic civilization. If he has a thing for architecture, he can indulge that in selected buildings on the campus. This temple replica and temple mosque construction competition is a real waste at this stage. The acharya Kishore Kunal doesn't sound like an enlightened man either. Spanish and Portuguese colonials in South America spent their loot in erecting grand cathedrals, whereas Anglo-Americans set up their first universities. See the difference.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 16 Mar 2012 22:40

nalanda is gaining a new university. it turns out that within months of nalanda's sacking, another four similar universities in eastern india were sacked by bakhtiar the vandal. why dont these guys go build another set of institutions of learning?

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 16 Mar 2012 22:44

Lalmohan, exactly my thoughts!

Even the Arab Islamics, when they were recuperating from the Mongol lovemaking, first thing they did was to setup another institution of learning - Mustansar Billah. That was a huge step towards making a comeback. Tejos will really botch things up if they pour everything into a mandir-masjid pissing contest.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 16 Mar 2012 22:57

Carl wrote:^^ The Mahavir Mandir Trust says they have $20 million to throw around. Instead of wasting it on a replica of a temple that has caught their Acharya's fancy, it would be better spent on, say, a university or boarding school project - one that gives their students a Dharmic education (Sanskrit, darshanas, etc) in addition to the best in modern science and humanities training. This is investing in human resources, who are the real building blocks of Vedic civilization. If he has a thing for architecture, he can indulge that in selected buildings on the campus. This temple replica and temple mosque construction competition is a real waste at this stage. The acharya Kishore Kunal doesn't sound like an enlightened man either. Spanish and Portuguese colonials in South America spent their loot in erecting grand cathedrals, whereas Anglo-Americans set up their first universities. See the difference.

Spot on, but cultural superiority is also one of the things needed to reach super power status and building massive temples in areas where temples were taken down/built on etc. BUT its a case of balance and I do completely agree. The Hindu system that we have needs good education especially on religion, values, nationalism, lessons from the Gita etc from a young age.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 17 Mar 2012 00:20

actually, building a huge temple that dominates the public place is a very good idea. the Christianists and Islamics have mastered this art. like erecting a huge Jesus Christ outside Chennai Central. by dominating the public place, you dominate the social psychology and ultimately the society.

but building a replica of the Angkor Wat is not advisable. primarily b/c that temple is the largest temple complex and represents the power of Indic Dharma to spread its wings well outside of Bharat and establish powerful and prosperous societies in those areas. replicating that temples somehow seems cheap and an insult to Bharatiyas and also the local culture, which was able to successfully capitalize the memes of Bharatiya culture and build a powerful state and society.

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 17 Mar 2012 00:32

^^ Apart from erecting a statue outside chennai Central, the EJs invested a lot more wealth into setting up convent schools and colleges across the country, educating Indian elites for the last 150 years. Many of these convents had elegant chapels on the premises.

Nothing wrong with dominating the public space with good architecture, etc., but let its utility be multiplied. There can be a temple spire rising above a high quality college or school campus. Even ancient temple complexes served multiple purposes - there were acharyas and teachers who lived near the temple ashram and who imparted knowledge, sometimes there were schools of art and dance associated with it, there were vendors at one level in the premises, etc. These days temples don't even have a resident acharya, and the public doesn't even go there to read or listen or serve. They just go there for "darshan". What is the level of involvement here? Its merely a sort of spiritual tourism. Don't get me wrong, I'm not invalidating even that, its good. But for just that value is it worth spending $20 million? Instead, building a nice institution is worth it, and it can be built around a central grand temple. The institution doesn't even have to just be a college; it could be a Vedic arts and sciences institute, to train and research relevant material; it could be a foundation to encourage physical fitness or martial arts disciplines, etc. So many ideas are there. Just building a temple, that too a replica, shows a paucity of creative imagination and civilizational purpose, IMHO.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 17 Mar 2012 01:29

^^^
I am inclined to agree with what you are saying, but no need to lambast the Trust for considering a temple. and definitely no need to sneer and deride them as "Tejos". perhaps, a more persuasive marketing campaign to "convince" them to better channel their energies?

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 17 Mar 2012 01:46

Perhaps a few good models for religious charity needs to be set. A few business models can be put out there for such religious foundations to consider.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 01 Apr 2012 09:35

Poaq Connection will come up in few days

Bombs in southern Thailand kill 14, injure 340

HAT YAI: Suspected Muslim insurgents staged the most deadly co-ordinated attacks in years in Thailand’s restive south, killing 14 people and injuring 340 with car bombs that targeted Saturday shoppers and a high-rise hotel frequented by foreign tourists.A first batch of explosives planted inside a parked pickup truck ripped through an area of restaurants and shops in a busy area of Yala city, a main commercial hub of Thailand’s restive southern provinces, said district police chief Col. Kritsada Kaewchandee.About 20 minutes later, just as onlookers gathered at the blast site, a second car bomb exploded, causing the majority of casualties. Eleven people were killed and 110 wounded by the blasts.A blast also occurred Saturday at a high-rise hotel in the city of Hat Yai, in the nearby province of Songkhla. Officials had initially attributed that blast to a gas leak, saying it was unrelated to the attacks blamed on insurgents. But after inspecting the hotel’s underground parking lot, authorities found a severely damaged sedan and a hole created by the explosion’s impact.The mid-day explosion at the 405-room Lee Gardens Plaza Hotel, where throngs of Malaysian and Singaporean tourists spend their weekends, killed three people and caused about 230 injuries, mostly from smoke inhalation, said police Lt. Puwadon Wiriyawarangkun.Regional police chief Lt. Gen. Jakthip Chaijinda said the Hat Yai incident “is likely related to what happened in Yala and might have been plotted by the same group of insurgents.”Police said the blast that occurred at the underground level of the hotel ripped the building’s cooking gas pipeline, causing a fire that sent smoke spiralling into the upper floors and trapping many people in their rooms until rescuers came. One of the fatalities was identified as a Malaysian tourist.A McDonald’s restaurant on the hotel’s ground floor appeared to have suffered heavy damage from the blast.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 02 Apr 2012 06:37

Not too long ago I posted details of the new policy of the Phillipines ,where secret discussions were on for the return off US forces in the nation's territories.This would mean a reversal of current for. policy,where after aeons,the US was asked post Cold War,to leave its huge bases there.With the aggro from China,illegally basing its troops on small islands in the Spratlys belonging to other nations,the US is returning.In fact,as the report says,the US has already secretly returned to the Phillipines 10 yrs ago!

the US military has already had virtually complete access to camps and bases of the Armed Forces of the Philippines (AFP). A 600-strong contingent of US soldiers under the Joint Special Operations Task Force (JSOTF-Philippines) has been stationed in an exclusive area within the AFP Western Mindanao's Camp Navarro headquarters in Zamboanga City.

http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-ne ... -us-troops

PH government now building naval base in Spratlys for US troops
Manila : Philippines | Mar 31, 2012

Xcpt:

MANILA, Philippinees- (UPDATE)The Philippine government is now building a mini naval base in Spratlys reigme of islands to accomodate US military troops participating in the yearly RP-US joint military exercises or Balikatan (Shoulder-to-shoulder).

"The plan of the Manila government to build a seaport in one of its controlled islands in West Philippine Sea confirms our assessment that the US government is very much inclined to build a mini-naval base in Spratlys to host American troops who regularly come to the country for the yearly Balikatan exercises," said the militant fisherfolk alliance Pambansang Lakas ng Kilusang Mamamalakaya ng Pilipinas (Pamalakaya) in a press statement.

The seaport which the Philippine government wants to construct in Pag-asa, Hicap said, will eventually be converted into a de facto mini-naval base for incoming and outgoing US troops who take part in the RP-US joint military exercises. "The country's controlled areas in Spratlys are slowly but surely being transformed into new US mini-naval bases with complete amenities including rest and recreation facilities for Washington troops.

We have a new Okinawa on the rise," the Pamalakaya leader added. The Department of Foreign Affairs (DFA) on Friday announced the Aquino government's plan to build the pier on the largest of the five Philippine-occupied islands, known as Thitu, but which it calls Pag-asa. The DFA in a press statement, asserted the country exercises sovereignty over Pag-asa island and therefore it can establish a seaport in Pag-asa and four other islands in West Philippine Sea.

But Pamalakaya accused President Benigno Simeon Aquino III and the Washington government of turning Palawan island province into a full-blown naval base for US troops who will be redeployed to the country once they leave their naval base in Okinawa, Japan.

Pamalakaya vice chairperson Salvador France theorized that the next joint US-PH military exercises in Palawan and the rest of Luzon Island scheduled on April 16-27, 2012 is a preparatory stage for the establishment of mini-naval bases in Palawan and all over the country which would cater to US troops in short-term and long-term stay in the country. The AFP said this year’s Balikatan will deal on responsive partnership with the community focusing on Humanitarian Assistance and Disaster Response (HA/DR) Training.

According to AFP, more than 6,000 US troops will take part in the PH-US Balikatan exercises. Aside from US troop, development officials and staff of the United States Agency for International Development (USAID), United States Pacific Command, United Nations Country Team, United Nations Office of the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs, World Food Program (WFP) and the International Federation of the Red Cross will join the US troops.

The development groups will essay civilian support part with their counterparts from the National Disaster Risk Reduction and Management Council (NDRRMC), Office of Civil Defense (OCD), Metro Manila Disaster Coordinating Council (MMDCC), AFP, and the Philippine Red Cross (PRC).

Local military officials said the exercise aims to enhance the AFP and US Armed Forces interoperability in the conduct of not only on traditional military training but also on non-traditional aspects that reach out communities in need of urgent assistance.

Meanwhile, Pamalakaya urged the Senate and the House committees on foreign relations to undertake a joint or separate congressional inquiries on the plan of the executive department to build a seaport in Spratlys. The militant group said the Aquino government and the Philippine military are hiding something big and sinister from the Filipino people, including the establishment of mini naval bases in West Philippine Sea to accommodate US troops who will be redeployed from Okinawa to the Philippines.

Pamalakaya noted that while there are several resolutions in both Congress calling for a review of VFA, including one authored by Senator Miriam Defensor-Santiago and other one authored by Bayan Muna Rep. Teddy Casino, the committees on foreign relations have yet to act on these legislative measures. Malacanang has repeatedly denied reports that the Aquino administration has granted rights to US troops for permanent basing, although it did not deny that it is asking the US government to increase the number of American troops participating in the yearly Balikatan exercises under the 1999 Visiting Forces Agreement (VFA).

Pimp

Meanwhile, the Communist Party of the Philippines (CPP) in a press statement sent to all voices also denounced President Aquino as "a pimp for the US imperialists in allowing the US military to trample on Philippine sovereignty by inviting the increasing presence of American interventionist troops in exchange for a few second-hand obsolete military hardware.

The CPP issued the statement in response to foreign secretary Alberto del Rosario offer to Washington government for greater access and use of air fields and sea ports to dock and launch US military warships, deploy US military planes, station and launch surveillance drones, carry out more frequent "joint exercises" and provide for requirements for increasing US military presence and intervention in the Philippines.

"The Aquino regime is virtually offering the entire Philippines to be used by the US as a big military base and allow it all-out latitude to use the intervene in the internal military affairs of the country and use it as a platform for waging wars of intervention and conducting power-projection operations in line with its hegemonist objectives in the Asia-Pacific," said the CPP.

Last month, news about near future talks between foreign affairs and defense officials of the US and Philippine governments graced the international and national headlines on the request of US President Barack Obama to allow increase in the presence of US troops in the country.

Likewise, part of the negotiating terms is the setting up of more military facilities for use of the American military. According to Philippine foreign affairs department, the US military also wants among others to have access to half a dozen civilian airfields to host its military planes and surveillance drones.

Complete access

The CPP maintained that for more than ten years now, the US military has already had virtually complete access to camps and bases of the Armed Forces of the Philippines (AFP). A 600-strong contingent of US soldiers under the Joint Special Operations Task Force (JSOTF-Philippines) has been stationed in an exclusive area within the AFP Western Mindanao's Camp Navarro headquarters in Zamboanga City.

"The Aquino regime is displaying outright puppetry and serving as a neocolonial adjunct of the US imperialists," said the CPP. "It is propagating a perverted sense of national sovereignty, one that is dependent on the favors of its masters, in a desperate attempt to fool the Filipino people and make them accept the total surrender of national freedom."

By Gerry Albert

Arav · Post by **Arav** » 10 Apr 2012 03:48

Spreading its wings

The 20th summit of the Association of South East Asian Nations last week has not only sought to consolidate ASEAN's gains, but also build a road map for its future. After stabilising itself as a regional cooperation forum for Southeast Asia, ASEAN started building bridges with its political and, more so, economic partners. The ASEAN Regional Forum, ASEAN+3, and the East Asia Summit are classic vehicles used by the association to build partnership with major powers across the world. From the U.S. and EU, to China, Japan, India, and South Korea, ASEAN has engaged in a useful and continuing dialogue. The objective was invariably to prevent conflict or friction and ensure free trade. At its just-concluded Phnom Penh summit, the association has firmed up plans for holding a global dialogue with institutions such as the World Bank, IMF, and UNCTAD. This will be held in November this year in Cambodia, along with other annual meetings. Again, ASEAN is trying to look into the future and engage development and finance institutions with a global reach to work with them in bringing about inclusive growth, an important objective given the fact that half of Southeast Asia continues to reel under poverty and under-development.

ASEAN legitimately took some credit for the successful conduct of by-elections in Myanmar that enabled Nobel laureate Syu Kyi and her party to contest and earn their rightful place in its Parliament, which remains packed with military nominees. Not surprisingly, the summit appealed to the U.N. and the West to lift the sanctions imposed on Myanmar over the years. Noting with concern continuing tensions in the Korean peninsula and the South China Sea, ASEAN called for the early resumption of the Six Party talks on Korea and for all countries with an interest in the South China Sea to continue to engage in dialogue and help defuse tensions. On India, regional leaders looked forward to the commemorative summit to celebrate 20 years of ASEAN-India dialogue relations to be held in New Delhi in December, and also to the recommendations of the Eminent Persons Group on future directions for this partnership. Despite its internal problems and the different systems of governance in vogue in its member-States, ASEAN has emerged as a model for other regional cooperation bodies to follow. It has also positioned itself at the centre of ongoing efforts to build pan-Asian economic and, eventually, even security structures. This is an arrangement all big powers with a stake in Asia — China, the U.S. and India — are comfortable with, provided the architecture which emerges is open and inclusive.

SAARC is not achieving much, It is better to dump Pakistan and include other members and move forward or merge SAARC members with ASEAN and build a bigger bloc. Pakistan is becoming a hurdle in realising SAARC objectives.