Bangladesh News and Discussion

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 01 Nov 2011 13:21

^^
Probably with some baksheesh to BD could be a tentative measure, but if that becomes a habit to BDs, we'll have a paki under our armpit.

himadri · Post by **himadri** » 01 Nov 2011 16:38

My cha vendor says only through lalgola ( jalangi border to be precise ) BDs of the order of a thousand get into Indian territory each night. Add to that volumes of drugs that enter and volumes of cattle leave. This scenario was promoted by CPIM ( just look at the border town political colors ) is still being promoted. This makes me depressed , WB has been compromised already.

member_20036 · Post by **member_20036** » 01 Nov 2011 19:26

Very terrifying.
What now mamata bannerjee is doing now. Something need to be done fast.
Hope bjp comes to power

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 01 Nov 2011 20:25

I have detected an error in the analysis. I took the overall Bd population growth instead of the Muslim growth to find illegal
Bd Muslim population. The corrections have been made below. The analysis suggests that illegal Muslim immigration into WB is not
the main reason for growth in Muslim population in certain regions of WB but is due to twice the fertility level of Muslims to Hindus. The Muslim population has grown 4 fold and the Hindu population about 2-2.5 fold in the whole of Bd and WB.

Supratik wrote:I have done an analysis of illegal immigration from Bangladesh into West Bengal based on census data from 1951 upto 2001.

All numbers are approximate.

The population of WB was about 25 million in 1951 with about 20 million Hindu (~78-79%) and 5 million Muslim (~20%).
The population in 2001 is about 80 million with 58 million Hindus and 20 million Muslims.
From language census the population of Hindi speakers in WB is 5.7 million and Urdu speakers is 1.5 million. The population of
Gurkhas is about 1 million and Santhals about 3 million. So adjusting for these populations the Bengali Hindu population is
about 49 million and Bengali Muslim population is about 18.5 million in 2001. Thus, overall the Bengali Hindu population has
increased by about 2.5 fold and the Bengali Muslim population by about 4 fold.

The population of Bangladesh in 1951 was about 41 million with about 9 million Hindus. The population in 2001 was 130 million
a rough increase of 3 fold. The overall increase in Bengali Hindu population in WB is about 2.5 fold. Assuming the same growth
for the Bengali Hindu population in Bangladesh the population in 2001 should have been about 25 million but the actual number
is about 11 million. So there are about 15 million missing Bangladeshi Hindus. Assuming that about 50% migrated to WB there
would be about 7 million Bangladeshi Hindus in WB.

The Bd Muslim population has grown from about 30 million to about 120 million (2001). So about 4 fold growth.
If we assume the same population growth for Bengali Muslims in WB and Bangladesh the Bengali Muslim population in WB and
Bangladesh have grown at similar proportion.

If about 7 million Bangladeshi Hindus migrated to WB, the actual population growth of native W Bengali Hindus is 42 million i.e.
roughly 2 fold over 1951.

So the Bengali bhadraloks have done population control with a vengeance and without immigration of Bangladeshi Hindus
and non-Bengali Hindus the demographic balance would have been even more against the bhadralok. The bhadralok will become less than 50% in the near future.

The current demographic trend from census 2011 suggests that the Hindu population growth is around 11% and the Muslim growth
around 20% i.e. almost double. Future demographic balance will depend on 1) rate of population decline in Bangladesh and by extension illegal immigration, 2) rate of migration primarily from Hindi speaking states, 3) comparitive fertility changes between the
Hindu and Muslim population.

arun · Post by **arun** » 03 Nov 2011 19:44

Bangladesh Prime Minister's Adviser for International Affairs Gowher Rizvi on the issue of providing Indian goods transit rights:

'There is no magic switch that can be turned on to begin transit.'

arun · Post by **arun** » 06 Nov 2011 07:54

X posted from the India-US Strategic News and Discussions thread.

Josy Joseph writing in TOI reveals that declassified Indian documents shown that US hostility to India during the 1971 war with the Islamic Republic of Pakistan was more intense than previously disclosed:

US forces had orders to target Indian Army in 1971

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 15 Nov 2011 16:51

Bangladesh MP charged with war crimes

DHAKA: Bangladeshi prosecutors have filed war crimes charges against a second opposition leader, accusing him of genocide and murder during the country’s 1971 liberation struggle, an official said Tuesday.

Salahuddin Quader Chowdhury, a senior lawmaker with the main opposition Bangladesh Nationalist Party, has also been accused of looting and facilitating rape, prosecutor Syed Haider Ali said.

“Investigators have found compelling evidence of war crimes against him. We filed charges against him late Monday and the International Crimes Tribunal will now decide whether to accept the charges,” he told AFP.

The tribunal, created last year to try people suspected of atrocities during the independence campaign from Pakistan, is a domestic set-up and is not endorsed by the United Nations. Opposition parties have dismissed it as a sham.

Ali said Chowdhury — the highest ranking BNP lawmaker to be investigated by the tribunal — is directly implicated in the murder of a high-profile Hindu businessman.

“We have found evidence that he turned his father’s Chittagong residence as a torture cell during the war,” Ali said, adding Chowdhury’s father was a strong supporter of Pakistan and opposed then-East Pakistan’s secession.

Last month, the tribunal charged its first suspect — Delawar Hossain Sayedee, a leader of an Islamic party — with atrocities including genocide, rape and religious persecution.

Sayedee is being held in detention along with four other suspects from his Jamaat-e-Islami party and two more, including Chowdhury, from the main opposition Bangladesh Nationalist Party (BNP).

Both parties — which ruled in coalition from 2001 to 2006 — have dismissed the tribunal as a government “show trial”, while the New York-based group Human Rights Watch has said legal procedures fall short of international standards.

Bangladesh’s government claims some three million people were killed during the nine-month long struggle. Independent researchers say the figure is far lower.Of course Pakis will argue about the numbers but not the actual killings

From the Paki tribune

Anindya · Post by **Anindya** » 23 Nov 2011 06:33

According to Sarmila Bose, none of these rapes/murders ever happened....

Bangladesh finally confronts war crimes 40 years on

Ms Priyabhashini was 23 at that time, when a group of Pakistani soldiers and their Bangladeshi associates stormed into her house and dragged her away. Her husband and three children watched helplessly as she was bundled into an army jeep.

For seven months, she was repeatedly raped and tortured at an army camp in the capital Dhaka, she says.

"I was subjected to extreme physical and mental torture. They had no mercy. Many of my friends and relatives were killed in front of me," she said.

Hindus attacked, raped Prosecution tells tribunal about his links to war crimes

Delawar Hossain Sayedee along with other collaborators kept a Hindu girl confined to her father's house at Parerhat in Pirojpur and raped her day after day during the Liberation War, the International Crimes Tribunal was told yesterday.

The victim, Bhanu Shaha, daughter of Bipod Shaha, left the country after liberation out of fear of public humiliation. She still lives in India, said Syed Rezaur Rahman, a senior prosecutor, while placing the opening statement against Sayedee.
...
Sayedee had led a 50-member team of the Razakar Bahini, an anti-liberation force, in attacking Hindu Para of Hoglabunia under Pirojpur.

Sensing the presence of the miscreants, members of the Hindu community had managed to flee.

The razakars, however, got hold of Shefali Gharami, wife of Madhusudan Gharami, and raped her.

Shefali gave birth to a baby girl after the war but, like Bhanu Shaha, she had to leave for India.

On May 5, 1971, Saif Mizanur Rahman, deputy magistrate of then Pirojpur Sub-Division; Foyezur Rahman Ahmed, sub-divisional police officer and father of famed writer Humayun Ahmed and noted educationalist-writer Muhammad Zafar Iqbal, and Abdur Razzak, SDO in charge of Pirojpur, were taken to the Baleshwar river bank and shot to death.

Sayedee as a member of the killing squad was present there.

Under his pressure, some 100-150 Hindus of Parerhat and other villages converted to Islam and had to go to a mosque, said the prosecutor.

He oversaw the creation of a fund with cash and other property looted by the razakars from the locals, mainly Hindu families. He also issued a Fatwa (religious edict) legalising war booty, said the prosecutor.

Pranay · Post by **Pranay** » 29 Nov 2011 02:58

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-15928541

Path breaking legislation in Bangladesh...

The Bangladeshi parliament has passed a landmark bill that will enable the return of property seized from the country's Hindu minority.

The land was taken under a controversial law enacted in the 1960s.

It was implemented by the East Pakistan administration before Bangladesh became independent in 1971.

The law, initially known as the Enemy Property Act, allowed the authorities to take over land and buildings of Hindus who migrated to India.

Under its terms, property belonging to millions of Hindus who fled to India was confiscated.

The law came into effect in 1965 when Pakistan and India fought a brief war.

The act was renamed as the Vested Properties Act after independence.

The Vested Properties Return (Amendment) Bill 2011 now enables Hindus to reclaim their property taken over by the government and individuals.

"There are some good provisions but it doesn't go far enough to address our demand that all the properties seized or taken over until recently should be returned to their rightful owners," Supreme Court lawyer Subrata Chowdhury told the BBC.

Exodus
Hindu community leaders say that even after the independence of Bangladesh in 1971 the law was still used to discriminate against them.

Human rights groups and civil society activists have long urged successive governments to repeal the act.

The governing Awami League made an electoral promise in 2008 that confiscated properties would be given back to the original owners.

Experts say that while the changes to the law are welcome, it will be impossible to return all the land because some of it was confiscated more than 40 years ago.

Most of it appears to have been taken over by Muslims with links to the main political parties.

The government says that it will soon publish a list of properties that were seized. It that any Hindus wanting to make a claim will have 90 days to do so.

It is estimated by one prominent academic that about 400 to 500 Hindu people are migrating daily from Bangladesh.

Professor Abul Barkat told the BBC that if the current rate continues, Bangladesh will no longer have a Hindu community in 25 years' time.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 29 Nov 2011 05:29

The Tipaimukh barrage/dam and Bark river projects are now the central focus in BD politics. BNP (the overt Islamist anti-India side in BD politics) is making it one of its main planks.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 30 Nov 2011 03:02

apparently 50% of the crowd was waving paki flags at the pak BD cricket match at dhaka.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 30 Nov 2011 22:45

I have a feeling that the next elections will see AL BNP sort of equal equal or AL might even lose the gov. The basic mobilization - that the BNP-Jamaat-overtly Islamist axis is projecting on, is supposed "exploitation" by India which AL gov is supposed to be facilitating, and the supposed "rollback" and attack on Islamism by the AL gov.

Given my earlier analysis of a roughly 40(covert Islamists like AL)+40(overt Islamists like BNP)+10(swingers)+10(ideologically committed others who split into two on Islamist+India bashing issue), leads to the 10% swingers as determining outcomes.

The AL gov is probably trying to win over the swingers who are mostly from the semi-urban urban zone that appears to be developing along a NW-SE axis. It is however still going to be decided on the issue of Islamism and India to a certain extent, and the focus appears to be veering that way. I wish the lord of the moon was available to comment on these developments. Rabindrasangeet does not appear to be doing anything. Well it never did matter anyway, as otherwise Noakhali would not have happened anyway.

Sudip · Post by **Sudip** » 05 Dec 2011 04:08

BD police riot gear seems to have improved

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 06 Dec 2011 22:01

Bangladesh Approves Hindu Property Restoration Act

link

The law, initially known as the Enemy Property Act, allowed the authorities to take over land and buildings of Hindus who migrated to India. Under its terms, property belonging to millions of Hindus who fled to India was confiscated. The law came into effect in 1965 when Pakistan and India fought a brief war. The act was renamed as the Vested Properties Act after independence.

The Vested Properties Return (Amendment) Bill 2011 now enables Hindus to reclaim their property taken over by the government and individuals. But Professor Abul Barkat told the BBC that if the current rate continues, Bangladesh will no longer have a Hindu community in 25 years’ time. It is estimated that about 400 to 500 Hindu people are migrating daily from Bangladesh.

“There are some good provisions but it doesn’t go far enough to address our demand that all the properties seized or taken over until recently should be returned to their rightful owners,” Supreme Court lawyer Subrata Chowdhury told the BBC.

Hope this helps somewhat in betterment of Hindus in Bangladesh.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 06 Dec 2011 22:07

pandyan wrote:
Rahul M wrote:apparently 50% of the crowd was waving paki flags at the pak BD cricket match at dhaka.
are you serious?

there was a lot of RnD over at the bangla forum over this. even a couple of FB pages.

Sudip · Post by **Sudip** » 09 Dec 2011 00:54

60 Hindus forced to 'become Muslims' (1971)

Resuming his deposition yesterday, Ruhul Amin Nabin told the International Crimes Tribunal that Jamaat-e-Islami leader Delawar Hossain Sayedee and other collaborators had compelled 60 Hindus to convert to Islam during the Liberation War in Pirojpur. He said they also helped the Pakistani army rape several women in 1971.

Freedom fighter Nabin, who was 21 years old at the time, said some of the Hindus of Parer Haat area, forced to convert, fled to India as they were unable to deal with the humiliation. They, however, returned after the liberation of Bangladesh and followed their own religion, he said.

Now 61, Nabin began his deposition Wednesday and resumed and completed giving his testimony yesterday. He is the second prosecution witness to testify against Sayedee, who has been charged with crimes against humanity committed during the 1971 war.

Nabin yesterday narrated how during the Liberation War Sayedee helped the Pakistani occupation forces loot valuables from Awami League activists, freedom fighters and the Hindu community in Pirojpur.

The Pakistani occupation forces went to Pirojpur district on May 3, 1971. Around 52 members of the force arrived in 26 rickshaws at Parer Haat area of Pirojpur on May 7, Nabin told the court, a fact which supports the statement of Hawlader made a day before.

Sekandar Ali Shikder, Danesh Ali Mollah, Mawlana Mosleh Uddin and Sayedee, among other collaborators, welcomed the Pakistani force led by one Cap Ejaz. Fluent Urdu speaker Sayedee managed to form a close and friendly relationship with the Pakistani occupation forces, Nabin said, echoing witness Hawlader's statement made on Wednesday.

With the help of collaborators, the Pakistani force looted over 50 houses and shops in the area, including the shop of a local businessman Makhan who had around 20kg of gold (22-sher) and silver jewellery buried under his shop.

They looted eight more houses in Pirojpur's Badura Chithalia village the following day and torched them, he said.

“On a Thursday sometime in mid-June, I took a boat to Parer Haat to gather rations for freedom fighters…It was a haat day [weekly bazaar]…I stood in front of Masud's store and observed the atmosphere of the surrounding area,” Nabin said.

It was then that he saw Sayedee in the distance. “He was wearing a panjabi and lungi,” said Nabin, adding, “He carried a corrugated iron sheet in one hand, and brass utensils in a wooden basket on his head.”

Nabin watched Sayedee, then known as Delwar Hossain Shikder, make his way to a shop, which used to be known as “Panch Tahabil”.

He directed passerby Moulvi Nurul Haque's attention towards Sayedee and said, “See, Delwar Saheb is taking away the loot.”

Nabin, who carried a revolver then, turned angry and told Nurul Haque, “I will shoot this robber right now!”

“Nurul Haque stopped me and said if I created a scene the Pakistani occupation forces would torch the remaining houses too and commit genocide.”

Nabin then made his way towards another shop in the bazaar area where he learnt from locals that Madan Saha's shop had been looted. He then saw Sayedee appear with five men. They began demolishing Madan Saha's shop.

The looted goods were then taken to Sayedee's father-in-law's house in the area, Nabin said.

According to Nabin, the collaborators took over two shops in Parer Haat to store the booty. Sayedee was in charge of the shops, Nabin said.

Nabin told the court that during their stay in Parer Haat the Pakistani occupation forces raped a number of girls with the help of the collaborators.

The collaborators also forced 50 to 60 Hindus to convert to Islam. The victims included Rony Saha, Makhan Saha, Dr Ganesh Chandra, Dr Sudhir Chandra Roy, Gouranga and Ajit Chandra Roy, he added.

“Everyday, they were taken to mosques and forced to pray five times. They were also forced to learn two to four suras [verses of the holy Quran] and were provided with materials for prayers.”

Unable to accept the insult, many of them escaped to India, he added.

On June 21, 1971, Nabin along with a number of freedom fighters went to India to receive guerrilla training. On his return, he took part in armed warfare against the Pakistani occupation forces, Nabin said.

Nabin, along with his fellow freedom fighters, returned to Parer Haat on December 18. The freedom fighters then searched different houses to get hold of the collaborators.

While some were arrested, identified collaborators like Danesh Ali, Maulana Mosleh Uddin and Sayedee could not be apprehended, he said. “We came to know that they had fled,” Nabin told the court.

Some looted goods were recovered from the houses of the collaborators. They were handed back to their original owners.

On behalf of the freedom fighters and the victims of the atrocities committed during the Liberation War by the Pakistani occupation forces, Nabin pleaded for justice.

Sudip · Post by **Sudip** » 09 Dec 2011 01:01

Rahul M wrote:there was a lot of RnD over at the bangla forum over this. even a couple of FB pages.

Which bangla forum and FB group are these? I am interested in going through it.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 09 Dec 2011 05:30

check banglacricket forget cricket forum, you will get a bunch of threads.

Sudip · Post by **Sudip** » 12 Dec 2011 04:21

Boundaries Of Blood -- Audio narration

A pakistani born in 1971 goes to bangladesh to explore the history of 71 war. Gets bitchslapped royally by a bangladeshi lady who suffered in 1971, while his own young brainwashed countrymen keep denying it. Definitely recommend listening to it. If possible someone could save the audio file in some repository. There is a second part that will be uploaded soon.

Forty years ago, Shahzeb Jillani was born in Sindh Province, Pakistan.

At the same time, a new nation was being born - Bangladesh. Shahzeb was born in the middle of the night.There was a blackout. Bombs were falling. There was a war, and Pakistan was losing.

Forty years on, Shahzeb, now the BBC World Service South Asia Editor, returns to the region to find out how these traumatic events shaped contemporary Pakistan.

It will be a personal journey of discovery to challenge the contradictions in the Pakistani narrative he was taught in school.

There he learned little, if anything, of the injustices visited in the 1950s and 1960s on Eastern Pakistan by the Western half - with government spending and political power overwhelmingly biased towards the West.

The discrimination came to a head in the bid for Bangladeshi independence and then a brutal war, which Pakistan expected to win.

When India entered on the Bangladeshi side, Pakistan suffered the ultimate humiliation: surrender on 16 December 1971.

Through this series, Shahzeb will try to understand what really happened in 1971 and to chart how it still continues to affect contemporary Pakistan.

He will explore how the memory of defeat at the hands of India has shaped the thinking of the Pakistani military - that the country faces a continued existential threat from its much larger neighbour, whether in Bangladesh or in Afghanistan.

Did it create the determination that Pakistan must acquire the bomb? Did the vacillation of the Western powers instil an essential distrust towards the outside world, and a belief that Pakistan must depend on itself?

And Shahzeb will explore the hidden legacy of violence, coming face to face with Bangladeshis who witnessed the widespread rape, torture, killings by Pakistani forces and to understand the resentment most Bangladeshis still feel towards Pakistan.

Hiten · Post by **Hiten** » 16 Dec 2011 08:36

on Bangladesh's independence day

Super-Concert to help people of Bangladesh, suffering genocide & oppression by the Pakistan Army

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rImpZrrCUAc

sanjeevpunj · Post by **sanjeevpunj** » 16 Dec 2011 17:05

40 years on, remembering heroes of the Bangladesh War.

In the pic: A mukti bahini guerrilla purported to be Kader Siddiqi, points his bayonet at men accused of collaboration with Pakistan during East Pakistan's struggle to become the independent state of Bangladesh.

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/slideshow ... 626596#top

Sanjeev, some morons might do their own captioning, but please be a little more discerning on BRF. I have edited the caption - JE Menon

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 16 Dec 2011 17:14

When pakis had done much worse why show a Mukti Bahini killing someone?

sanjeevpunj · Post by **sanjeevpunj** » 16 Dec 2011 17:22

Hi Aditya ji,

Ask DNAIndia! I just linked the photo slide show here.
http://www.dnaindia.com/india/slideshow ... 626596#top

Inder Sharma · Post by **Inder Sharma** » 16 Dec 2011 17:59

The unspoken story of that picture is more horrendous. Does anybody know the name of the photo-journalist who clicked that picture?

sanjeevpunj · Post by **sanjeevpunj** » 16 Dec 2011 18:09

Thanks J E Menon ji, I will keep this in mind. I was also surprised why "indian mukti Bahini, when it was Bangladesh's Mukti Bahini." Didn't occur I should edit it here at least, thanks again.I reported it officer@cybercellmumbai.com hope they take some action on DNA for this wrong caption.

@Inder Sharma.No Idea at all.DNAINDIA has not provided any clue.
Another image from the same slide show-

In the pic: Indian troops advancing into the East Pakistan (Bangladesh) area during the Indo-Pakistani war

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 16 Dec 2011 19:14

that picture of siddiqui killing the two men is part of a larger series. the incident happened after the victory in the centre of dhaka. the two men were believed to be razakars or informants. they were semi-lynched by the mob, whilst begging for their lives and then siddiqui bayonets them.

it is a brutal picture of callous violence. all i can hope is that the two men did much worse to others and therefore there is some sense of justice in what happens to them

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 16 Dec 2011 20:32

Lalmohan wrote:that picture of siddiqui killing the two men is part of a larger series. the incident happened after the victory in the centre of dhaka. the two men were believed to be razakars or informants. they were semi-lynched by the mob, whilst begging for their lives and then siddiqui bayonets them.

it is a brutal picture of callous violence. all i can hope is that the two men did much worse to others and therefore there is some sense of justice in what happens to them

I don't think it is callous violence. The "mukti yuddha" was a temporary coalition of mostly leftist "revolutionaries" and student radicals on one side and a section of middle order within the Islamist spectrum. A lot of the real radicalism against Pakis in BD actually started off and was nurtured by the leftists left back in BD and were primarily from the "Hindu". The language struggle, and subsequent movements were often precipitated impetuously by the youth and student activists - who until the late 60's were primarily coming from left-inspired positions. A significant portion of later [and current oldguard] AL had their roots in leftist student politics of the 60's.

Mujib himself was a disciple of Suhrawardy, the man singularly responsible along with other ML figures for planned genocide of Hindus in Calcutta and elsewhere in Bengal. So he represented the middle order of Islamists who looked towards getting Bengal for themselves as against domination by Paki Islamists - but both converged on the necessary power base of Islamism.

Mujib was astute enough to utilize the mobilizing capacity of the leftist militancy among the educated youth and the student movement - to go for a militant liberation struggle. But through that struggle the more radical wings within the movement were in a constant tussle with the more Islamist wing. A lot of the irregulars and the "revolutionaries" went into it thinking that they would be able to use the struggle for an eventual overthrow of the continuation of the Islamist regimes/societies/networks and establish a state more aligned to their own dreams.
Even while the stuggle was going on there were reportedly mutual accusations of collaboration with the enemy - and people like Tiger would very well know or be aware of the possibility that immediately after the victory, moves will be on by the closet Islamists within the AL to protect and save the Jamaat types [and their sympathizers even within overt pro-liberation sectors of the army command that had joined the liberation struggle. One BD journalist on semi-ermanent self-exile in UKstan, who is termed a rabid dog by the Islamist camp - openly suggests that the "declarer" of "independence" was actually part of an infamous intel-op group within the Paki army before the stuggle. Subsequent events, do tend to keep this angle open - with the smooth takeover by Khondokar Mustaq - a close inner member of the inner circle of Mujib, and Zia's reinstatement and rehabilitation of Jamaat].

Tiger and others probably anticipated this and tried to liquidate as much as possible before the protection measures started up. If he simply bayonetted them he was being "rahim" - merciful. Thye should have been slowly roasted, skinned alive and salted, poles being pushed into their behind - preferabley with a Paki flag in it, or castrated, allowed to heal and then raped - ALL OF THESE WERE CARRIED OUT BY THE ISLAMISTS ON MEN, WOMEN AND CHILDREN. (of course the flag in the islamist case happened to be the then proposed BD flag). Even the mob seems to have been quite merciful - for they did not lynch them into two-dimensions. None of the Paki soldiers should have been allowed to surrender to the Indian army. They should really have been turned around to face the music. Even from the Indian secuirty sense it would have meant so many thousands of armed and trained Pakis vanish forever, and not replenish the Paki strength in the west.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 16 Dec 2011 20:40

Mods, if you feel one of the lines in particular in my previous post should be taken out let me know. But that is exactly what I feel, and I have expressed perhaps only a millionth of what I feel about sadists - whether theological or in uniform. I greatly repsect Tiger, who had contacts with my dad. From what I know of him, he would not be indulging in personal revenge gratification.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 16 Dec 2011 21:18

B'ji, I agree with your statement about Paki soldiers surviving. the surrender option should not even be there for Pakis. they should have been killed off to the last man. 90000 less Pakis would have been a good riddance for India. we have to remove this philosophical blindness called "humanism". when dealing with Pakis, there is no humanism.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 19 Dec 2011 08:33

Then how did she give away every thing at Shimla??

Veil off ‘jugular but not J&K’ assurance.

New Delhi, Dec. 17: India gave an assurance in 1971 to Soviet Russia that it would not use the December war against Pakistan to alter the status of Jammu and Kashmir but would “go for the jugular” on the eastern front, a former diplomat in the thick of the negotiations disclosed here today.

Ambassador Ronen Sen, who was the special assistant to the Indian envoy to Moscow, D.P. Dhar, 40 years ago, said the war that led to the birth of Bangladesh was the outcome of “a politico-military-diplomatic strategy” under Indira Gandhi that was crafted to see the emergence of Bangladesh and the defeat of Pakistan, stave off a US-China pincer movement, and seal a pact with the then USSR to get crucial military aid.

Sen said that since General Sam Manekshaw told Indira Gandhi in April 1971 that he would take time to prepare for and plan the war, “there was no woolly-headed thinking” in New Delhi.

“Some called Indira Gandhi a Soviet stooge. Nothing of the sort. That frail woman gave nothing away in the negotiations with (Leonid) Brezhnev and (Alexei) Kosygin (the then Soviet President and foreign minister, respectively) but Soviet support was not unconditional,” Sen said.

In March, the Pakistani army had clamped down on the Bangladeshis. In some estimates, three million people were killed or maimed by the Pakistani forces. Even if that figure is exaggerated, India was taking in tens of thousands of refugees every day and its demographics were changing.

“The US was paranoid that we would seek to annex Bangladesh and alter the status of Jammu and Kashmir by crossing the Line of Control,” Sen said.

He was chairing a meeting called by an outfit of former soldiers, the Conclave of Defence Services Veterans, in remembrance of India’s victory in the 1971 war. Uttarakhand chief minister B.C. Khanduri gave the Manekshaw Memorial Lecture. But it was Sen’s disclosures that created a hubbub.

The retired career diplomat, who lists ambassadorships to Russia and the US among his assignments in about 75 countries, lifted the veil on the negotiations that led to the Indo-Soviet Treaty of Peace, Friendship and Co-operation on August 9 in the run-up to the war.

For the US leadership of President Richard Nixon and secretary of state Henry Kissinger, the Indo-Soviet pact was a “bombshell”.

Not only were the Soviets resolute in their support for India, said Sen, they also conveyed to the US that India would proceed with the two-front war with different strategies for the east and the west.

There was a tacit nod from the Soviets that on the eastern front the Indian forces “would go for the jugular”. The Indian Army, backed by the navy and the air force and along with the Mukti Bahini of Bangladesh, made a dash for Dhaka.

“This is important to remember, especially today, because I have found during my interactions with Bangladeshis that they feel that India does not give the Mukti Bahini due credit. It should not be forgotten that Field Marshal (then General) Sam Manekshaw was not only the chief of the Indian armed forces but also headed the India-Bangla joint forces,” Sen told the veterans in the auditorium, many of whom had served in the war and even trained the Bangladeshi guerrillas.

India had recognised Bangladesh as a sovereign country on December 6, 1971, 10 days before the Pakistanis capitulated.

For the western front, the Soviets had an assurance from India that its military strategy would be limited to a “holding (defensive) operation”. Indeed, the forays by the armoured divisions on the western front were mostly short bursts and not meant to occupy territory for long.

In return for the assurance from India, thousands of tonnes of military hardware was airlifted from Soviet Russia in the weeks preceding the war, which lasted 13 days from December 3 till the Pakistanis surrendered in Dhaka on December 16.

The Soviet Union helped by vetoing a UN Security Council resolution ( number 303) against India on December 3. On December 6 it, along with the UK and France abstained from voting against India.

Forty years ago, on December 16, Pakistani forces lead by Lt General A.A.K. Niazi surrendered to the Indian eastern command at the Ramna Grounds in Dhaka. More than 90,000 soldiers were taken as prisoners of war.

Samudragupta · Post by **Samudragupta** » 19 Dec 2011 09:17

But still this does not answer the question why didn't IG go for formal merger of the East with India...Was the ghost of Charu Majumder too strong to handle.....

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 20 Dec 2011 04:04

IG probably would still be under the shadows of the thought of the inner workings around the dynasty that had looked at Punjab and Bengal as problematic for control.

Alternate history is always criticized for being armchairship. However it is still tempting to think what might have been the alternative? The first task would be to hold China back with Soviet assistance, and ask for military deterrence on the naval side for IOR. Wait, pretend, dilly-dally until the soviet navy could show itself. But then, allow the BD war to drag on, pretend that max force would be applies on the east.

Dragging the BD struggle on, would have forced most of the "less-Islamists" and progressive elements to either migrate to India, or finished off in confrontations. This would create grounds and justifications later on to level the area. But use this opportunity to cut off the Pindi corridor - which would be the real strategic gain. Make it fait accompli and offer soviets a route through J&K/NA to IOR. Once this is finished - use a threat to sweep south to get Pak to cede East Pakistan.

Probably a huge resource constraint. Military experts can diss it if they want to - of course.

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 20 Dec 2011 04:15

Bangladeshi woman's husband 'chopped off her fingers' for going to college without his permission

A young Bangladeshi woman, whose husband is accused of cutting off her fingers after she began a college course without his permission, has spoken to the BBC about her determination to carry on with her studies.

The attack on Hawa Akther Jui, 21, is the latest in a series of acts of domestic violence targeting educated women in the country.

The brutal husband had just returned from working in some Gulf country. The link above has video interview.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 01 Jan 2012 21:06

India's indecisiveness is spoiling a good Bangladesh story

Indrani Bagchi, TNN Dec 30, 2011, 08.38PM IST

NEW DELHI: Despite a steady upward trajectory in India-Bangladesh ties in recent months, India may be falling short in taking this relationship forward, a fact that is worrying the top foreign policy leadership here.

"Bangladesh worries us," said top level sources in the government, less because of Bangladesh itself but more because of India's inability to take big decisions.

Last week, traders in Akhaura, Tripura went on a strike, impacting bilateral border trade worth lakhs of rupees. They were protesting against the pathetic infrastructure of the integrated check-post at Akhaura, which has made trading a hellish activity. Six months ago, home minister P Chidambaram inaugurated the checkpost with a lot of fanfare, promising construction in 18 months.

The traders' protest was obviously a reminder that the government had dropped the ball after promising much -- they were only persuaded to resume activity after senior officials from the Tripura government reaffirmed their commitment to complete construction on time.

Manmohan Singh's Bangladesh initiative had been the most important piece of neighbourhood diplomacy by the UPA government, but it seems to be slowing down. First, the exercise was largely in response to the first steps taken by Bangladesh prime minister Sheikh Hasina. Second, while Bangladesh has actually moved far in addressing India's security concerns, the perception has gained ground that India is dragging its feet.

In fact, India and Bangladesh have actually had a very productive year. A land boundary has been demarcated, the vexed issue of enclaves and adverse possessions resolved, India has been generous with tariffs leading to greater trade and investments.

But India failed at the last minute to stitch together a Teesta rivers agreement with Bangladesh after promising to do so, because the UPA government could not get West Bengal chief minister Mamata Banerjee to agree to the deal. Banerjee, famously capricious, dumped Manmohan Singh at the eleventh hour killing the PM's transformative visit to Dhaka in September.

"Our inability to settle the Teesta issue is making small incidents flare up," sources said. The Shaikh Hasina government had gambled big on the India relationship, but with India failing to come up to scratch, there is the inevitable bad blood that affects the bilateral relationship.

In another incident, which became bigger than it otherwise would have, three Bangladesh nationals were killed in firing by BSF forces in Govindpur in Malda District and Narayanganj in Coochbehar District of West Bengal on December 16 and 17, which raised hackles in Dhaka. Dhaka lodged a strong protest with India. New Delhi "regretted" the incident, though said the firing had been in self-defence.

In a statement, the MEA said, the policy of restraint by BSF personnel has "emboldened criminal elements" who have stepped up their attacks to facilitate their illegal activities and asked Bangladesh to take measures to restrict the movement of people along the border especially during night hours.

The MEA spokesperson said, "It is the view of the Indian government that illegal activities, which sometimes lead to regrettable loss of lives on both sides along the border, need to be addressed through joint collaborative efforts and mechanisms."

Recounting the incident, MEA spokesperson said, a group of around 50-60 miscreants from the Bangladeshi side pelted stones at a BSF personnel and tried to drag him towards the Bangladesh side. "Sensing imminent danger to his life, his two colleagues fired four rounds in all resulting in the miscreants fleeing the scene leaving the BSF jawan behind," the spokesperson said.

Incidents like these should be resolved at the local level, but residual discontent with India has contributed to small incidents acquiring a bigger dimension than necessary.

India is yet to appoint a high commissioner to Dhaka, a post that is one of the most important foreign postings for Indian diplomats. The last envoy, Rajeet Mitter retired a couple of months ago, and the post has been vacant since then.

Sources said a slew of candidates from Navtej Sarna, India's ambassador in Israel to Pankaj Saran from the prime minister's office are in the running for the job. But the government is yet to make up its mind on a crucial appointment.

The good thing is that India acknowledges the importance of Bangladesh and is willing to take small steps to keep the ties afloat, even as domestic politics has grounded substantive movement on issue that matter to Dhaka. Sheikh Hasina will be in Agartala on January 11 to receive a doctorate from Tripura University. But more important, she will be going down memory lane, because Agartala holds memories for their independence struggle, as well as some personal memories of her father, Sheikh Mujibur Rahman. It's a small gesture, but its important for states to develop an independent relationship with neighbours.

Bangladesh politics continues to pressure the Hasina government on the Tipaimukh dam prompting a recent urgent visit by hasina's foreign policy advisers, Gowher Rizvi and Matiur Rehman, who met the PM to apprise him of the brewing crisis. It prompted Dipu Moni, Bangladesh foreign minister to defend their position this week. "We want a joint study on the project to find out if it has any adverse impact on Bangladesh," Moni said.

There are any number of creative solutions to the Tipaimukh Dam issue, including making Bangladesh a beneficiary of it.

Bangladesh is a good news story for Indian foreign policy. But India's window of opportunity is limited, and it needs careful political nurturing, which is not possible in the current environment of Indian politics.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 01 Jan 2012 21:44

why the need to worry about BD? All of these issues were raised by me - tipaimukh, internal opposition and anti-India roots based in islamism, and the real nature of BD society in terms of Islamism. Pour more money and development - assuming in the self-deceptive propaganda of peaceful-sufi-Rabnidrasangeet-punch that Islamism is onlee an imagination. More money and development should win it over!

Forget of course that the society will never ever change unless its Islamic institutional foundations are destroyed. There is perhaps a genuine dilemma in Indian indecisiveness. To be diecisive it has to either ignore reality and pour more jizyia and continue to do so in perpetuity. Or openly abandon the propaganda about the peaceful-faith and cultural-overlap myths where politics is concerned, and take steps to clear the ground of mullahcracy. As long as mullahcracy survives in BD - India will never ever gain real friends or fellow-feeling there.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 12 Jan 2012 07:55

Because Agartala is special

member_21708 · Post by **member_21708** » 19 Jan 2012 17:16

Bangladesh army says foils bid to topple govt
Reuters – 56 minutes ago

REUTERS - The Bangladesh army has foiled a plan to bring down the government of Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina by a group of former and active officers, a military spokesman said on Thursday.

"Specific information has been unearthed that some officers in military service have been involved in the conspiracy to topple the system of democratic governance," Brigadier General Muhammad Masud Razzaq told reporters.

He said the officers had been identified. Some had been detained and would be presented before a military court, he said with giving further details.

http://in.news.yahoo.com/bangladesh-arm ... 31274.html

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 19 Jan 2012 17:51

Army foils coup plot against Hasina

Thu, Jan 19th, 2012 3:36 pm BdST

Dhaka, Jan 19 (bdnews24.com)—The Bangladesh army has said it has foiled a plot by some hardline officers to topple the Sheikh Hasina government and that the process to bring the culprits to justice has begun.

An army spokesman came up with a statement at a press briefing Thursday afternoon in the wake of the detention of alleged mastermind of war crimes Ghulam Azam and reports in the media that several fanatic former and serving army officers were trying to create chaos at the instigation of some Bangladeshi expats. .

"Specific information (evidence) has been unearthed that some officers in active military service have been involved in the conspiracy to topple the system of democratic governance through the army," the spokesman said.

The spokesman, brigadier general Muhammad Masud Razzaq, branded these officers as having extreme religious views.

It is rare for the army in Bangladesh to hold a news conference, which lends gravity to the alleged coup plot to overthrow the government,

"Recently, at the instigation of some of non-resident Bangladeshis, some serving as well as retired officers with extreme religious views have tried to create disorder in the army riding on the religious sentiments of other officers," the spokesman said.

"Such heinous attempts are being foiled" by the army, gen Razzaq said.

On Dec 28, a court of inquiry was established. "Stern legal measures will be taken against those involved."

"Some unruly and derailed military officers have been actively engaged in the execution of the heinous conspiracy through maintaining contacts with fugitive Maj Zia (Syed Mohammad Ziaul Huq) by mobile phones and Internet," the spokesman said.

"On Dec 22 last year, Maj Zia met a senior officer and tried to provoke that senior officer into using the army against the state and democracy," the spokesman said.

"The senior officer immediately informed the appropriate authorities and his (Maj Zia's) leave and transfer order was cancelled."

"But he did not return to work and has still kept himself engaged in trying to organise subversive activities against the army."

Gen Razzaq said retired lieutenant colonel Ehsan Yusuf and major Zakir have been placed under arrest on charges of government coup plot.

When asked how many people were involved with the plot, he said he cannot be specific with the number until the investigation ends.

"But we believe 14 to 16 people may have been linked to the coup attempt. The army could thwart the move because it has proper chain of command in place," the spokesman added.

"We are not ruling out anything," came the reply from Gen Razzaq when asked if any foreign country was involved.

To a question as to whether Comilla GOC major general Kamruzzman was missing, as rumours had it, the spokesman said he was staying in Dhaka Cantonment with his family.

"There is no such thing as house arrest in the army," Gen Razzaq said when he was asked if the officer was placed under preventive arrest.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 19 Jan 2012 23:55

^^^^ shyamd, link not working??
same news but different news media

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 20 Jan 2012 00:16

Bji had predicted the coup/attempts at coup, also hinted at assasinations in Bangladesh about two weeks ago.