Badges, Patches, Insignia, Medals & Uniforms

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Sachin
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Postby Sachin » 25 Feb 2005 16:26

The first change i remember would be the changing of the Lanyard, which was first put around the neck (like a noose, symbolising...i won't go further, would prob get into the bad books of MLI officers in BR!!) and now it is worn like other inf units around the (left?) arm.

AFAIK the personell of units given the "Royal" prefix during the British times, wore a red lanyard on the right shoulders. One of the MLI battalions (5th??) has got a Royal prefix, I guess.

NOW, the latest change is the new cross belt which has been introduced, like any typical cross belt with battle honours etc.

This is not a cross belt, but a pouch belt. Cross belt would be thinner in size, and would get attached to the waist belt. The pouch belt how ever is fat in size and also does not get clipped on to the waist belt.

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Postby ASPuar » 25 Feb 2005 16:46

Sachin.. also the erstwhile Royal Garhwal Rifles. They still wear the "Royal Rassi" as it is known, with pride. I believe some Gorkha units also had been accorded the privilege.

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Postby shek » 26 Feb 2005 06:19

ASPuar wrote:Sachin.. also the erstwhile Royal Garhwal Rifles. They still wear the "Royal Rassi" as it is known, with pride. I believe some Gorkha units also had been accorded the privilege.


Even the Brigade of Guards and the ASC are royal.

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Postby Anoop » 26 Feb 2005 07:00

ASPuar wrote:I also dont understand thi new policy for staff oficers to wear camo, allegedly to show solidarity with their brethren at the front... it just seems like a lot of symbolic showmanship.


You'd be surprised at how many agree with you on that.

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Can any body identify this unknown brigade ?

Postby Chayan » 26 Feb 2005 18:16

Hi can anybody identify the brigade. the formation sign being a black horse standing on its hind legs in a yellow background.Yellow background to my info should be armoured

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The future of studying and collecting Indian medals?

Postby Ed_Haynes » 20 Apr 2005 16:44

The following has just been published in the HT, Chandigarh edition. What does it bode for those of us who collect and study Indian awards? Is there cause for concern?!

=================

Hindustan Times, Chandigarh edition, 20 April 2005:

Medals won overseas, lost at home
Man Aman Singh Chhina
Chandigarh, April 20

A GANG of tricksters is on the prowl in the villages of Punjab, Haryana and Himachal Pradesh, trying to rob old soldiers of their hard-earned campaign medals. The cheats are interested particularly in the soldiers who took part in the Second World War and try to fool the veterans into handing these over to them.

With the 60th anniversary of the end of the war approaching in May this year, there have been several cases where these men appeared in interior villages looking for old soldiers or their family members. Medals of the Second World War are particularly hot-selling items in the antique markets because of the anniversary.

Some veterans have already parted with their medals on being told by these cheats that they have come from the “government” and the medals are needed for inspection. In other cases, some well-dressed men have told old soldiers that they have come from their regimental records office and that the medals are required by the regiment.

A city lawyer, Capt Navdeep Singh, also serving in the Territorial Army, learnt about this gang when he was approached by some of the victims. He has written to the Sainik Welfare Departments of Chandigarh, Punjab and Haryana, asking them to forewarn the ex-servicemen so that they are not fooled.

It is learnt that the Auxiliary Air Medal, awarded in WW-II, is quite in demand because the Auxiliary Air Force is no longer in existence. One veteran of the Punjab Regiment was approached to hand over his Burma Star, which was awarded to those who fought in Burma, but he refused to part with it.

There are various Indian medals already on sale on various websites. Whether these have been sold to their present owners or have been acquired through deceit is difficult to ascertain.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/5922 ... 000000.htm

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Postby Jagan » 20 Apr 2005 18:00

What Auxillary Air Medal - havenot heard about it. Maybe Aman Chhina can clarify better as he visits the forum often?

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Postby Jagan » 11 May 2005 00:16

Image

Marcos from Sainik Samachar Site

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Postby Mandeep » 11 May 2005 00:38

This would be the Black Charger Brigade. Gold with red outlines is the format used for armoured formation signs.

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Postby Shishir » 11 May 2005 01:31

Jagan,
Do you(BR) have an enlarged version of the MARCOS patch by any chance? Also is that a diver(s) with a submarine in that patch?
BTW, nice jingo image :lol:
Thanks

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Postby Priyank » 12 May 2005 22:28

Re: The Marcos photo

Can somebody identify the round red and gold patch? Also does the gold writing on the red patch above it say "Commando"?

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Postby Kartik » 12 May 2005 23:37

great pic ! could be there on BR's front page ! :D

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Postby Jagan » 13 May 2005 01:00

Shishir wrote:Jagan,
Do you(BR) have an enlarged version of the MARCOS patch by any chance? Also is that a diver(s) with a submarine in that patch?
BTW, nice jingo image :lol:
Thanks


Shishi, sorry, no marcos patches with me.. the only commando related stuff i managed to get is the commando badges for the Para Commandos and the NSGs (The trishul). I do have a neat photo of the Garud's commando badge which is a copy of the NSGs.

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Postby Shishir » 13 May 2005 01:08

Jagan wrote:Shishi, sorry, no marcos patches with me.. the only commando related stuff i managed to get is the commando badges for the Para Commandos and the NSGs (The trishul). I do have a neat photo of the Garud's commando badge which is a copy of the NSGs.

Jagan,
Thanks. BTW, any updates on the Garud article that was under development? I am referring to the visit by the Garud commander to the BR booth at Aero India....
p.s Nice pic of the ASTE fleet.

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Postby Jagan » 13 May 2005 01:57

I should hopefully have the article up next month.

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Postby Jagan » 14 Jun 2005 19:16

If you see anyone wear the following ribbon

Image

You know he has taken part in Operation Parakram - That is the medal ribbon for it.

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Postby Shishir » 25 Jun 2005 05:13

Image 1
Image 2

- Can anyone ID the left shoulder badge on the officer(2nd from right) in image 1? Looks like an infantry badge but not sure of the unit..?

- Also from image 1, a badge with a maroon/red background is visible on the 3rd officer from right (Hidden by Pranabda).. ID?

- In image 2, again what is the shoulder badge worn by the officer(3rd from right)? And what unit does the cap badge on the second officer from right represent?

- I know this has been discussed before but still confuses me.. Why does the officer in Image 1 wear the lanyard(?) on the left while the officer in image 2 wears it over the right shoulder? :-?

Thanks in advance

Edited later: Just realized that my first question represents the 14ID patch. Second Q might be the Central command badge but not quite sure..Can anyone confirm?

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Postby Jagan » 25 Jun 2005 05:54

>>In image 2, again what is the shoulder badge worn by the officer(3rd

Fighting Cock Division - Badge is not too clear

>>I know this has been discussed before but still confuses me.. Why does the officer in Image 1 wear the lanyard(?) on the left while the officer in image 2 wears it over the right shoulder? :-?

Each regiment / Corps / Branch has its own tradition


You have identified the command badge correctly as Central Command

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Postby AmanC » 25 Jun 2005 17:48

Should there have been a medal for Op Parakram at all?

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Postby Jagan » 25 Jun 2005 18:57

AmanC wrote:Should there have been a medal for Op Parakram at all?


To quote a couple of experts on this topic

"Somethings are best left unanswered" and "or best discussed after a number of drinks!"

It is a frustrating exercise to find out the armed forces is instituting medals for 'non-wars' . IMHO, Parakram does not deserve a medal. A clasp to the existing Vishesh Seva Medal = Maybe, but if you add a clasp, it doesn't increase the size of the ribbon bar, so someone instituted this!

Heck, Someone who got caught up in the battle of thagla in 62 and trekked hundreds of miles back to our territory will have only a NEFA clasp to an already exisitng General service medal to show for it.

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Postby Shishir » 27 Jun 2005 21:40

Jagan wrote:>>In image 2, again what is the shoulder badge worn by the officer(3rd

Fighting Cock Division - Badge is not too clear

>>I know this has been discussed before but still confuses me.. Why does the officer in Image 1 wear the lanyard(?) on the left while the officer in image 2 wears it over the right shoulder? :-?

Each regiment / Corps / Branch has its own tradition

You have identified the command badge correctly as Central Command


Jagan,
Thanks for the clarification. Also does the "lowest" formation in the IA orbat determine the badge the officer will end up wearing? IOW if an officer/jawan belongs to division X under 1 corps which falls under the Central command, the officer will sport the division X badge correct? Does this mean then that the officer in the above example(Wearing the Central command badge), works directly for the Central command and not for any of the affiliated field formations(1 corps, Dix X etc)?

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Postby Jagan » 27 Jun 2005 22:09

Shishir wrote:
Jagan wrote:>>In image 2, again what is the shoulder badge worn by the officer(3rd

Fighting Cock Division - Badge is not too clear

>>I know this has been discussed before but still confuses me.. Why does the officer in Image 1 wear the lanyard(?) on the left while the officer in image 2 wears it over the right shoulder? :-?

Each regiment / Corps / Branch has its own tradition

You have identified the command badge correctly as Central Command


Jagan,
Thanks for the clarification. Also does the "lowest" formation in the IA orbat determine the badge the officer will end up wearing? IOW if an officer/jawan belongs to division X under 1 corps which falls under the Central command, the officer will sport the division X badge correct? Does this mean then that the officer in the above example(Wearing the Central command badge), works directly for the Central command and not for any of the affiliated field formations(1 corps, Dix X etc)?


Shishir,

You are correct . A chap wearing Cent Comm patch is on the Central command HQ staff and not with the corps or with the div. the other case is whtne they are with a bn-level formation directly under the corps. Say forexample an EME workshop at Corps Level, or at Command level etc.

The formation thing ends with the Divisional Sign patch and in some cases the Independent Brigade Patch. So if someone is with xx brigade under x division, he will wear the x division patch. However some of them might be with y indep armoured brigade directly under Y corps or Western Commnand, then they wear the y indep bde patch.


You also have institute / academy patch (like IMA, NDA, CDM, ADA College etc) and the Area / Sub Area patch (ATTNK Area which again has Andrha, Tamil Nadu, Kerala and Karnataka as 'Sub Areas') . these are non-combat formation patches.

Finally you have the color coding of the these patches. The background is always

Red Black Red : Command HQ
Red White Red : Corps HQ
Black : Infantry Division or Bde
Yellow with Red border : Armoured Division or Bde
Maroon : Para Brigade
Red : Area or Sub Area

The institutes and academies have misc backgrounds

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Postby Shishir » 27 Jun 2005 22:32

Good information.
Maroon : Para Brigade

- By Para brigade, do you mean the 50th Ind(And there is just one brigade AFAIK) or para units in general?
- And what is the colour coding for artillery divs.?

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Postby Rupak » 27 Jun 2005 22:37

Shishir wrote:Good information.
Maroon : Para Brigade

- By Para brigade, do you mean the 50th Ind(And there is just one brigade AFAIK) or para units in general?
- And what is the colour coding for artillery divs.?


1. Yes there is just one Para Bde
2. Dark/Navy Blue

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Postby Rupak » 27 Jun 2005 22:38

Shishir wrote:Good information.
Maroon : Para Brigade

- By Para brigade, do you mean the 50th Ind(And there is just one brigade AFAIK) or para units in general?
- And what is the colour coding for artillery divs.?


1. Yes there is just one Para Bde
2. Dark/Navy Blue

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Postby Jagan » 27 Jun 2005 22:42

Shishir wrote:- By Para brigade, do you mean the 50th Ind(And there is just one brigade AFAIK) or para units in general?
- And what is the colour coding for artillery divs.?


Just one para brigade. There was a short lived 51st Para Brigade in the late 60s and early 70s - That would have had a similar colored patch.

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Postby Ved » 05 Jul 2005 07:23

Jagan wrote:
AmanC wrote:Should there have been a medal for Op Parakram at all?


It is a frustrating exercise to find out the armed forces is instituting medals for 'non-wars' . IMHO, Parakram does not deserve a medal. ......

Heck, Someone who got caught up in the battle of thagla in 62 and trekked hundreds of miles back to our territory will have only a NEFA clasp to an already exisitng General service medal to show for it.


I can understand the last part - and that is the part to be corrected, though its probably too late now. But the point is... the Parakram ribbon isnt really a medal in the classic sense of the term, its a campaign ribbon to signify that someone took part in, or was present during a certain operation/event - thats all. There's a lot of blood that was shed (accidentally), lots of hardship and individual acts of outstanding service during Parakram; though these should be recognised individually no doubt, and are being, I only mean that Op Parakram was an event worth recording by a ribbon - as long as we remember the difference between a campaign ribbon and a medal.

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Postby AmanC » 05 Jul 2005 17:54

We do understand the difference between a campaign ribbon and a medal and you should perhaps understand what a campaign is. Instead of going into the semantics of the whole thing we should see Op Parakram for what it really was. By no sense of the word was it ever a campaign. It was just a deployment which carried on and on and on.
Secondly, as far as giving sweat and blood in any deployment is concerned, it takes place in every Corps level exercise. Only, this time it was magnified because of the quantum of mobilisation. Even Op Bluestar did not get a medal (where several hundred lives were sacrificed).
If you're giving a medal for Parakram, then no harm in giving one for Brasstacks, Poorna Vijay, Digvijay etc etc. And now that we're giving gongs so liberally, lets start giving mini-medals for divisional level exercises too.

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Postby Ved » 09 Jul 2005 07:52

AmanC wrote:We do understand the difference between a campaign ribbon and a medal and you should perhaps understand what a campaign is. Instead ...Op Parakram ... was just a deployment which carried on and on and on..


Reflect a moment - one of the 'seniormost ' ribbons is the Naga Hills one, which one gets for just being there - like the Assam-Bengal ribbon. Even the 'Uchh Tungta' and the Siachen one are similar. Yes, I know what Siachen is like.

AmanC wrote: Even Op Bluestar did not get a medal (where several hundred lives were sacrificed). If you're giving a medal for Parakram, then no harm in giving one for Brasstacks, Poorna Vijay, Digvijay etc etc.


I agree.

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Postby shek » 09 Jul 2005 09:42

Ved wrote:
AmanC wrote:We do understand the difference between a campaign ribbon and a medal and you should perhaps understand what a campaign is. Instead ...Op Parakram ... was just a deployment which carried on and on and on..


Reflect a moment - one of the 'seniormost ' ribbons is the Naga Hills one, which one gets for just being there - like the Assam-Bengal ribbon. Even the 'Uchh Tungta' and the Siachen one are similar. Yes, I know what Siachen is like.

AmanC wrote: Even Op Bluestar did not get a medal (where several hundred lives were sacrificed). If you're giving a medal for Parakram, then no harm in giving one for Brasstacks, Poorna Vijay, Digvijay etc etc.


I agree.


ESP FOR OP BLUESTAR

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Postby shek » 09 Jul 2005 09:49

Guys!, this one is just a rumour as of now, but it seems to be certainly on its way...the army rather the 'Tiger' has planned to change the regular OG uniform. The new one will have the shirt and pant in different shades of green. In fact the shirt will be the real Olive Green colour and the pant would have a darker shade.
Dunno what he's upto?, but hoping it will look good.

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Op Parakram Medal

Postby Ed_Haynes » 02 Aug 2005 03:28

As if you really want to see what this dubious work of both policy and art looks like, here is the Op Parakram Medal (a tailors' copy, as the real ones are probably years away, but the design is 100% correct). Setting aside the likely confusion between this thing and the Wound Medal, inexplicably renamed as the "Parakram Padak", this shows how things can never be assumed not to be able to get worse.

Ed Haynes

http://faculty.winthrop.edu/haynese/OPCopy.jpg

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Postby Priyank » 16 Aug 2005 11:29


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Postby RayC » 16 Aug 2005 23:57

The lanyard on the right means "Royal". They are entitled to wear it on the right having earned the distinction as a coprs or arm or regt for exemplary service.

The girl with a right lanyard has a cap badge of the ASC, which was RIASC.

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Postby putnanja » 17 Aug 2005 00:36

Welcome back RayC, long time no see!!

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Last Indian Army VC passes away

Postby Ed_Haynes » 21 Nov 2005 22:35

The end of an era:

Victoria Cross winner Umrao Singh dead
NEW DELHI, NOV 21 (PTI)

Subedar Major and honorary Captain Umrao Singh, last of the surviving Victoria Cross winners in the Indian Army, died at the Army Research and Referral hospital here today after a prolonged illness.

Singh, 85, of Jhajjar in Rohtak, Haryana, won the Victoria Cross, the highest award for bravery under imperial India for beating off four Japanese attacks on his advanced battery position at Kaladhan valley in Burma on the night of December 15-16, 1944.

He struck down three Japanese soldiers before being knocked out.

Six hours later, on counter attack, Allied forces found Singh at the site of his gun, so severely wounded that he was hardly recognisable. Around him lay 10 dead Japanese soldiers.

He was the last survivor among 40 Victoria Cross winners in the Indian Army known for their feats in the first and second World Wars.

Singh's funeral will take place in Palra tomorrow with full Army honours, an Army spokesman said.

http://www.outlookindia.com/pti_news.asp?id=336439

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Postby Guru » 22 Nov 2005 00:13

Heck, Someone who got caught up in the battle of thagla in 62 and trekked hundreds of miles back to our territory will have only a NEFA clasp to an already exisitng General service medal to show for it.


One officer did a "retrograde manoeuvre" from Thagla ridge and rose to be the Eastern Army Commander!!

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Postby ASPuar » 22 Nov 2005 22:51

Guru wrote:
Heck, Someone who got caught up in the battle of thagla in 62 and trekked hundreds of miles back to our territory will have only a NEFA clasp to an already exisitng General service medal to show for it.


One officer did a "retrograde manoeuvre" from Thagla ridge and rose to be the Eastern Army Commander!!


Well, as the inimitable General Patton said.. "The way you win a war is not by dying for your country. Its by making the other poor bast*rd die for his!".

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Postby ramana » 22 Nov 2005 23:37

Aman, Parakram was more than a deployment and you know it. No need to disparage it. Years from now historians will understand its meaning.

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Postby ASPuar » 27 Nov 2005 20:08

Anyone want to venture some guesses on the ribbons on the IG of BSF in the center?
http://bsf.nic.in/photos/51.jpg


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