Shaashtanga wrote:This is TIRP thread so I am not sure if this is the right place, mods please remove if it is not appropriate for this thread.
What can Pakistan learn from Indian education system? (Sochta Pakistan, 20 Jan 2012)
. His thought process epitomizes the state of higher (and lower?) learning in pa'astan. May his tribe grow in the land of plenty.Mulla Shiv, I sometimes have a hard time figuring out if you are simply being sarcastic or making a real point..India blaming Hindu terrorists and not attacking Pakistan - or sending dossiers will put the Paki army in a spot because they still cannot do USA's job and USA will still be killing momeen. If Paki people protest against the army the army does not stand a chance.
Suppiah, when a bomb goes off in India, BRF says "Pakistan". But heck, when a MiG 21 crashes, BRF says "Shoddy HAL, Uncaring Indian Air Force"Suppiah wrote:Mulla Shiv, I sometimes have a hard time figuring out if you are simply being sarcastic or making a real point..India blaming Hindu terrorists and not attacking Pakistan - or sending dossiers will put the Paki army in a spot because they still cannot do USA's job and USA will still be killing momeen. If Paki people protest against the army the army does not stand a chance.
Brilliant! This and the earlier post. Could not agree more. And one of the few sensible posts here after a very long time. Thank you.shiv wrote:We need to look at the Pakistan army's dilemma. Whenever the Pakistan army has taken power in a coup, they have done so with full support of the Pakistani people, saying that they will save Pakistan. And they have invariably had to withdraw from power when Paki civilians got sick of them. This time, if there is a coup, they will not be saving Pakistan from India. They will be asked to save Pakistan from Americans. That is the last thing that the Paki army can do. The only last minute hope for the Paki army is to conduct a massive terror raid on India - say Republic day... <SNIP> So a coup is unlikely without a terror attack on India. Just my guess. India will be the center of mass of the subcontinent and all its people will live by the rules of that center of mass as has been the case for 5000 years.
ISLAMABAD: A probe into a major scandal threatening Pakistan’s president on Tuesday appeared at risk of collapsing as investigators ruled out travelling abroad to hear the testimony of the star witness.
American businessman Mansoor Ijaz, who implicated President Asif Ali Zardari in a May memo seeking US help to rein in Pakistan’s powerful military, has refused to travel to Pakistan, citing fears for his safety.
“The commission cannot go abroad because the Supreme Court has restrained Husain Haqqani, so in the same way, Mansoor Ijaz’s statement should be recorded in Pakistan,” said Justice Qazi Faez Isa.
“He will be given box security. I assure you that his name will not be put on exit control list,” Malik told the commission.
pankajs wrote:“He will be given box security. I assure you that his name will not be put on exit control list,” Malik told the commission.
Rehman Malik doing his version of downhill skiing.WASHINGTON: India has made "sincere efforts" to reduce trust deficit with Pakistan with which it has a history of complicated relationship, a top Indian diplomat has said, as she expressed concern over "difficult terrain" ahead.
"We are engaged in a very conscious effort, a sincere and honest effort to try and see how we can reduce the trust deficit in our relationship with Pakistan in order to see how we can move towards coherent process normalisation.
This is not going to be easy," Indian ambassador to the US, Nirupama Rao, said. "There is a lot of difficult terrain ahead. We recognise that. We are realist about it," she said in response to a question.
With Pakistan, its immediate neighbour, India has had a difficult, complicated and very fractious relationship for over six decades now, she said.
But she argued there is need for trade and business ties to grow and the travel between the two countries to be facilitated in a smoother way.
"In the region of Jammu and Kashmir we have consciously worked on putting in place confidence building measures that enable trade across the line of control, better transportation facilities so that people can connect more easily," Rao said.
"But fundamentally, I think we have sought to stress and emphasise Pakistan that there is need for them to act on the issue of terror. It threatens to destroy the fabric of life in themselves today. I think they realise that very well."
The ambassador said the threat of terrorism is compounded given the possibility of intersection between terrorism and the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction.
"We have been affected by clandestine nuclear proliferation in our neighborhood," she said.
WASHINGTON: India has sought a cautious approach on the US-backed peace talks with the Taliban, warning against a victory for the "dark forces of terrorism" if such negotiations are put on a fast track.
"While we agree that ultimately there would have to be political solution, we also believe that this should not become an over-riding objective that needs to be achieved at all costs for that would risk the prospect of the victory of the dark forces of terrorism and extremism that have plagued the region for long," Indian Ambassador to the US, Nirupama Rao has said.
India has been "fully supportive of US efforts to fight terrorism in Afghanistan and to bring stability there. In this regard we are keenly watching recent efforts for a political dialogue," Rao said.
"Let us not wait for the dusk and the owl of Minerva to spread its wings, with awareness coming too late. Too much is at stake both for Afghanistan, and for our region in what happens in that country," Rao said.
Rao said both India and the US understand the imperative of ensuring success in Afghanistan. "We have been engaged in developmental assistance efforts in Afghanistan at considerable human and economic cost," she said. Rao said India's vision of Afghanistan is that it should become a stable peaceful and a very strong democratic country.
"It's a very diverse and pluralistic society like India. How do you cohere all the different ethnic groups and interest together. That's the challenge," she said.
Anujan wrote:How can a foreign citizen be a member of the national assembly and the spokesperson of the President?! Though I do have a soft corner for Farahnazisnt this a bit too much?
In other news: Civvies in Pakistan subtly threatened to put Mansoor Ijaz on exit control list. When he balked at showing up, they want him to be charged with contempt of court now
Does Daktar Rehman Malik mean providing security to the“He will be given box security. I assure you that his name will not be put on exit control list,” Malik told the commission.
ISLAMABAD: Prime Minister Youaasuf Raza Gilani and Foreign Minister Hina Rabbani Khar met with Chief of Army Staff (COAS) Gen Assfaque Pervez Kayani and the Director-General Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) Lt Gen Shuja Pesha on Tuesday, the foreign ministry said, ahead of a trilateral summit on the future of Afghanistan.At the meeting, PM Gilani asked the foreign minister to visit Afghanistan to discuss reconciliation efforts there.A senior government official told Reuters that Khar’s visit was also to prepare for a US-Pakistan-Afghanistan meeting to be held in Islamabad in the coming weeks.President Asif Ali Zardari is currently on a two-day state visit to Myanmar.
When did DocJi suggest this? I must have missed it. If true, it is tragic to my mind at least that in our collective SDRE inability to punish TSP for its crimes against us, we have to devise such low, self flagellating devices and hope & pray that they work so TSP spares us. Wow, like you it takes my breath away. I am flabbergasted that any surrender of any proportion can be spun away as Chanakyan provided India "exists".Abhijit wrote:Wow! What a policy prescription! The best way to defeat paki satan is to blame any and all terror attacks on a non-existent Hindu terror. This will force the paki army to do a coup on the paki civilians. Paki civilians won’t like it. And then what? I can’t imagine that people on BRF are going ga ga over a prescription that mani Shankar aiyer and susan roy couldn’t come up with in their moments of most intense intellectual onanism!
Shiv saar, I am an unabashed fan of your analysis but this prescription took my breath away in its terrible simpleton nature.
Pakistan has in most areas of agriculture a monsoon climate, and there might be abundant rainfall during the wet season and then a very long dry season where crop production depends very heavily on irrigation water. Groundwater is a very important source of irrigation for farmers. Ground water is being over-pumped extensively in order to meet current demands for food production but if our demands exceed that renewable supply, then we must be in the situation that we might be over-pumping groundwater to satisfy the demand, or taking too much water from the river basin systems. The result will be the formation of salinity and barren land that in the long run will cause food scarcity. Over-pumping of groundwater for agriculture, industry or domestic use comes at a sharp ecological price. It disrupts the natural hydrologic cycle,causes Rivers and wetlands to dry up, the ground to collapse and fish and wildlife and trees to die.Millions of Pakistanis currently lack access to clean drinking water, and the situation is only getting worse. Pakistan has approximately 35 million acres (140,000 km2) of arable land irrigated by canals and tube wells, mostly using water from the Indus River.Chashma, Mangla, and Tarbela are mainly use for irrigation purposes but the gross capacity of these dams has decreased because of sedimentation, a continual process. Per-capita surface-water availability for irrigation was 5,260 cubic meters per year in 1951. This has been reduced to a mere 1,100 cubic meters per year in 2006. The water shortage will cause a wheat deficit of 12 million tons per year by 2012–13.
Abhijit I did not say that and no thanks for imagining that I said that. I don't want to be given a break by people who choose to imagine that i said what I did not say because I do not give anyone a break for saying stupid things.Abhijit wrote:Wow! What a policy prescription! The best way to defeat paki satan is to blame any and all terror attacks on a non-existent Hindu terror. This will force the paki army to do a coup on the paki civilians. Paki civilians won’t like it. And then what? I can’t imagine that people on BRF are going ga ga over a prescription that mani Shankar aiyer and susan roy couldn’t come up with in their moments of most intense intellectual onanism!
Shiv saar, I am an unabashed fan of your analysis but this prescription took my breath away in its terrible simpleton nature. This prescription is a non-sequitur from everything that preceded it (and I am assuming that I correctly interpreted your posts interspersed with these nuggets). If you want to engineer a split between paki civilians and paki army, by all means go ahead and do it(it has been done by paki army itself at least 4 times, so what's new? and it wasn't exactly done by PA with an India card. they in fact claimed that they had to step in to save paki satan from the greedy politicians) but why bring a non-existent Hindu terror into it? And what is the next step after this split? we sacrifice hundreds/thousands of our civilians to the bhasmasur of paki-army-engineered terror, so that paki civilians can have a better life? What is the end-game in this? And whatever the end-game, bringing a non-existent Hindu terror is unacceptable, at any cost.
Poaq PantherPrime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani has said that the authority to appoint a thanedar rests with him. This is the approach of our chief executive, who takes pride in having the authority to appoint a mere SHO. Doesn’t this statement show the mental bankruptcy of our leaders?
Marrezt Irfan Daffar
The scene changes again. Now I hear a thousand horsemen, crossing the world’s highest mountains and running into the valley. They come in groups, some small, some large. They keep coming for hundreds of years. Wherever they stop, they build homes and settle down. It sounds familiar. I understand it. I identify with it.But my search does not end here. Now I hear music and songs. It is a group of girls in white saris with red borders. Wearing fragrant garlands around their necks and arms and colorful bindies on their foreheads, they sing as they move towards the river with their offerings of flowers and fruits. I understand their song. I recognise their music.Dress. Flowers. Fruits. All seem familiar. After all we share so much with them. Our social habits, our culture, languages and even physical features are similar. So I see a link.Their song fades away. Once again I hear horses and battle cries. These are ancient warriors who came with their horses and arrows and conquered the valley. They come and over-powered those who lived here before them. But the valley really conquered them and they never went back. Now they live with us. I speak the words I borrowed from them; I share their customs, their tales and even their prejudices about castes and creed.
But does my journey end here? No, I also have affinities with those who lived here before them. I feel a sense of attachment to the un-ciphered tablets discovered from the ruins of the Indus cities of Moenjodaro and Harrapa. The statues of the mother goddess fascinate me. The dancing girl of the Indus is no stranger. She lives inside me — frozen in a frame of ecstasy which has been copied by countless generations of dancers ever since.Many in my country say that this journey of thousands of years ended in 1947 when we assumed a new identity, that of Pakistanis. After that we should shun all other identities. We have been trying to do so for more than 60 years now but it has not worked. I can’t ignore the invisible string that links me to all those who came before me.Yet there are some who put my new identity in conflict with my old identities. Besides being a Pakistani, I am also a Punjabi, a Sindhi, a Baloch and a Pashtun. And I am also a South Asian.There are some who don’t feel comfortable living with the past. The controversies they stir also disturb me. It has pitched my faith against my politics, my traditions against my work, my ethnic origin against that of others and my language against that of my neighbor.y being a Muslim is not enough. I also have to identify myself with the groups doing politics in the name of Islam. My being a Pakistani is not enough. I must also associate with those who look at any mention of other historical, social or cultural references with suspicion. I also have to subscribe to the narrow ethnic identities of various groups who have their own definitions of nationalism.
The problem is that you reinforce Paks' narrative. Like "Samjhauta was done by Prohit onlee, who also bumped off Kurkuray".shiv wrote:... Might as well blame Hindu terror ...
That is not Pakistan's narrative.Pranav wrote:The problem is that you reinforce Paks' narrative. Like "Samjhauta was done by Prohit onlee, who also bumped off Kurkuray".shiv wrote:... Might as well blame Hindu terror ...
By claiming the bolded part above, Hafiz Saeed has made it quite clear to even those who have been fudging this issue that indeed LeT and PA are one and the same.In a spectacle guaranteed to “send a chill through New Delhi,” as The Financial Times put it, Hafiz Saeed, the suspected mastermind behind the 2008 Mumbai terror bombings, is being feted in Pakistan as a “hero” attracting thousands of people as he “criss-crosses” the country at the head of a radical road-show targeting India and calling for “jihad.”
The newspaper suggested that Mr. Saeed's campaign had the covert support of Pakistan's “India-fixated [military] generals” opposed to Pakistan President Asif Ali Zardari's bid to improve relations with India. His re-emergence in such a big way after being forced to lie low following the Mumbai carnage was a “stark illustration of how the authorities allow extremists to flout bans and operate in full view,” it said.
In a front-page report, “The mullahs, the militants and the military — Pakistan's shadowy coalition stages return,” the FT said a crowd of 10,000 chanted “If God asks, we will go for jihad” at a rally he addressed recently.
Mr. Saeed, founder of the banned Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT), said he wanted to send a message to India, America and NATO forces that the defence of Pakistan was his main priority.
shiv wrote:I am also speculating that this new policy of GoI of not even blaming Pakistan let alone punishing Pakistan might be aimed at reinforcing a civil military split. If that is true, I hope it works.
I agree that what unites mango abduls/jihadis and the puke-mil is their hatred for India. However what divides them is the mango abduls/jihadis hatred for amreeka in contrast to army's ties to amreeka.SSridhar wrote:Hafiz Saeed threatens India
For Paks it is a win-win situation ... if Yindoos blame Paks they will say we are being blamed falsely, it was done by Yindoos to get an excuse to attack. If Yindoos don't blame Paks, they will say, see we told you so, now even Yindoos are forced to admit that they did samjhauta and killed Kurkuray.shiv wrote: Pakstan's narrative is damaged by Indians saying "Hindu terrorists. We are not blaming Pakistan" .
The Mumbai attacks were also a bait by the PA to attack Pakistan to divert attention.Kiyani was being GUBO'ed by the then US government to take action against the Taliban in SWAT.Look at the timelines then the taliban occupied SWAT and please look at that angle.Such an operation and the logistics associated with it cannot solely be implemented by L-e-TAnujan wrote:It is also possible that India centric jihadis are seeing their funding and importance die down as the afghan Taliban take up bulk of the money attention and recruits. This might be a marketing push by LeT to show that they are still relevant. Remember that Mumbai attacks were also to show that they were potent and relevant.
OT , but just curious.. Ramana Saar, you too a fan of Ayn Rand ?ramana wrote: Might be pearls before swine.
Anujan ji, I have a different take on this 'diffa' affair. I agree with you that there could be a motive for the LeT to show its jihadi cadres that they were still relevant. In fact, that was one reason for the 26/11 attack as well, as the LeT cadres were deserting it for the TTP.Anujan wrote:It is also possible that India centric jihadis are seeing their funding and importance die down as the afghan Taliban take up bulk of the money attention and recruits. This might be a marketing push by LeT to show that they are still relevant. Remember that Mumbai attacks were also to show that they were potent and relevant.
ISLAMABAD: The government faced a variety of criticisms during the Senate session on Tuesday, with senators across party lines urging the government first and foremost to implement the recommendation of the parliamentary committee on national security to shoot down US Predators entering Pakistani territory. They were lodging their protest over the recent drone strikes in North Waziristan which allegedly killed innocent citizens.
“Don’t make tall claims if you (government) don’t have the courage to stop drone strikes,” said Leader of the Opposition in the Senate Maulana Abdul Ghafoor Haideri. Speaking on a point of order he said, “If the civilian government and military leadership army had no courage to stop drone strikes then they should at least lodge a case against US-led forces in an international court for violating Pakistan’s sovereignty.”
Definitely. But this could mean good news for India. If the JuD/LeT are openly supported by the army (as opposed to the covert/denied support prior to 26/11) then any LeT action is going to get blamed on army so army will tie down LeT from taking rash action that damages its interests. It's interests can be damaged if India develops brain fever and actually attacks Pakistan (could happen in mosquito season)pankajs wrote:The Hafiz Saeed rally is designed to return the mango abduls/jihadis focus back to India, the eternal enemy and in the process strengthen puke-mil's hand in its battle with amreeka on one side and pak-gov on the other.
WASHINGTON: The United States rejected Monday the findings of a Pakistani probe into Nato air strikes that killed 24 Pakistani soldiers in late November, saying the investigation ignored the fact that “mistakes” were made on both sides.
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“The statement that this was an unprovoked attack by US forces is simply false,” said Navy Captain Kirby. “It was not an unprovoked attack,” he said. “There were errors made by both sides here.”
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Kirby said the Pentagon was “100 percent” behind the findings of the investigation report released last month by the US military.
That report, while acknowledging some responsibility in the bombing of one or two Pakistani border posts, argued that Nato troops had fired in “self-defense” after being shot at by “heavy weapons and mortar” from an “unidentified” source in a remote area infiltrated by Taliban organizations.
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The crisis in US-Pakistani relations has been overshadowed by a stand-off between the courts and the civilian government that analysts believe could force early elections in Pakistan within months.
shiv wrote:Pranav wrote:
That is not Pakistan's narrative.
Pakistan's narrative is: "India and Hindus are out to destroy Pakistan and terror by Hindu extremists in India is blamed on Muslims and Pakistanis" Pakistan's narrative is reinforced every time India blames Pakistan and Pakistan blames India back by saying "Maybe Hindu terrorists but Pakistan is being falsely implicated"
Pakstan's narrative is damaged by Indians saying "Hindu terrorists. We are not blaming Pakistan" .
I am not endorsing this. I do not endorse it. But this seems to be the GoI's new policy in addition to the existing Pakistan policy of never attacking Pakistan for a terrorist attack. I am also speculating that this new policy of GoI of not even blaming Pakistan let alone punishing Pakistan might be aimed at reinforcing a civil military split. If that is true, I hope it works.
If you look at Indian retaliation against attacks since the parliament attack, there seems to be a plan not to hit Pakistan. Oh the armed forces are planning allright - but the GoI has no intention of hitting Pakistan. But the "do not hit back" plan has never been announced publicly.Neela wrote: Surely you cannot call it a plan when un-armed civilians are left to face cowards with guns and bombs and babus calling it " It is all working to plan onlee"
