Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 15 Jan 2012

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 07 Feb 2012 06:05

nachiket wrote: That is age old paki propagandu, but you already know that. I know you have been trying to emphasize on US weakness w.r.t pakistan, but this is ridiculous.

Just goes to show that for any given situation a slight change of perspective gives a new meaning.

I believe that our ability to read any situation is marred by something that a lot of people don't find ridiculous. When the US fails to attack Pakistan after losing 2000 men in peacetime it is souperpower strength. When India does that it is cowardice.

I stand by that statement even if you thought it was ridiculous. How about some Americans looking at it the Paki way - as an Indian I don't care about protecting American echandee.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 07 Feb 2012 06:19

shiv wrote:
I stand by that statement even if you thought it was ridiculous. How about some Americans looking at it the Paki way - as an Indian I don't care about protecting American echandee.

That statement of yours was about pakis fighting the USSR. What has that got to do with US echandee? And yes, "pakis fighting USSR to a standstill" is a ridiculous paki self-delusion about their martial prowess (of course, they go even further and claim they defeated the soviets). If you push this line, you are making a completely unnecessary own goal in order to make your (quite valid) point about Americans being helpless when it comes to pakis.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 07 Feb 2012 06:24

DocJi, I am saying so in jest, but looks like you have joined the elite club whose members include Sarmila Bose; those who are overawed by TSPA's TFTA martial prowess

.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 07 Feb 2012 07:05

CRamS wrote:DocJi, I am saying so in jest, but looks like you have joined the elite club whose members include Sarmila Bose; those who are overawed by TSPA's TFTA martial prowess .

I hope that does not worry you in any way CRamSji. The association does not bother me. The clubs that you think I beling to are of little concern to me although I am definitely tickled by the way I can provoke "American honor needs to be defended" reactions form BRFites by being sufficiently critical of the US. This speaks volumes about the way the US has managed to build up a loyal group of followers from all nations - but it is the Indian followers who are relevant to me.

What this means to me personally is as follows. When I follow a particular line of thought on BRF (which may be wrong or right) I am often critical of Islam and Pakistan. Both sets of thoughts get people cheering me and egging me on. When I criticise India I get mixed reactions - mostly positive. But when I criticise America there is a standard bunch of people who rise to America's defence as a robust "first line of defence". The lines run several layers deep - I just have to continue being scathing and mocking of America on Bharat Rakshak forums to bring out more and more lurkers and who are provoked into responding and protecting American echandee.

Why do I do this? I have several reasons for exposing the level of loyalty and America patriotism that exists among Indians. The first is to show up the reactions as biased so that other thoughts and other non American viewpoints can be highlighted as possibly valid. But that is a relatively minor issue compared to what else shows up in the reactions of uptight America Rakshaks reacting to criticism of America. It is not germane to this thread, but as I interpret it, India has been so backward and has had such a negative experience in the lives of so many Indians, that their own self esteem has been restored only by migrating to the USA. Elements of the self esteem that comes from being America, and a deep sense of pride in America and the American way show up in posts (and in conversations). This is an admirable thing that the US does to Indians. But it amazes me that Pakistanis have it too. Self esteem is a nebulous entity. One can be a zero in life or belong to a zero nation, but self esteem brings pride and the willingness to stand up and fight for what one admires and holds as superior and valuable. Absence of self esteem leaves one more likely to reject everything associated with oneself as bad or negative.

Many Indians who move from lousy India to bountiful America retain memories of all that was bad in India and feel strongly about all that is good in America, and that shows up in what they say. They do not necessarily like being told something different, and react with anger. Americans are wont to react particularly aggressively to criticism of America in my observation, because they are indoctrinated into believing America's superiority. It is hilarious that this bunch is now fighting Islamist who are indoctrinated into believing the superiority of Islam.

Cheers. You don't need to undertsand. I don't care either way. Just said what I felt needed saying.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 07 Feb 2012 07:09

nachiket wrote:
shiv wrote:
I stand by that statement even if you thought it was ridiculous. How about some Americans looking at it the Paki way - as an Indian I don't care about protecting American echandee.
That statement of yours was about pakis fighting the USSR. What has that got to do with US echandee? And yes, "pakis fighting USSR to a standstill" is a ridiculous paki self-delusion about their martial prowess (of course, they go even further and claim they defeated the soviets). If you push this line, you are making a completely unnecessary own goal in order to make your (quite valid) point about Americans being helpless when it comes to pakis.

No saar. You are commenting on my statement after misreading it. I am saying that Pakis fought both the US and the USSR to standstill using US aid. It may be a Paki delusion. But it causes me to laugh and maybe there is some truth to it in how stupid the US has been. First Pakistan was aided to oppose the USSR, and then Pakistan got aid from the US to oppose the US

Here is my original statement

shiv wrote:What i admire about Pakistan is that they fought the USSR to a standstill - using US aid. Now they have fought the US to a standstill - using US aid again!

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 07 Feb 2012 07:25

People who died in Afghan war should get more credit than people who trained/armed them.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 07 Feb 2012 07:31

abhishek_sharma wrote:People who died in Afghan war should get more credit than people who trained/armed them.

It is ironic that the people who trained them, the Pakis take credit for victory, and the people who armed them, the USA also take credit for the victory.

If the current situation is not a falling out among thieves, what is it? It is being spun as a great game being played by a souperpower. There is no game but this game and it's name is echandee.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 07 Feb 2012 07:35

US and Pakis should not take credit for Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan. The right question to ask is:

Let us assume that X Afghans died in the conflict from 1979-1989.
Was Pakistan/US willing to sacrifice X citizens for defeating soviets.
My guess is no.

I know money/arms matter but they are relatively less important.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 07 Feb 2012 07:55

Odd. There are two near simultaneous articles about a 1951 standoff between India and Pakistan that I was unaware of. Any further info anyone?

Jhujar wrote:Monkey Trap For Donkey?
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 2012_pg3_4
Army and the birth of an insecure state —

“I would rather have Pakistanis starve than let Pakistan’s defence suffer!” That was Prime Minister Liaquat Ali Khan, also the Defence Minister of Pakistan.

Liaquat’s statement made during a war-like India-Pakistan standoff in 1951 — the so-called 1951 Flap — expresses Pakistan’s deepest sense of insecurity.

and

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/rafal ... e/908640/0
Rafale comes home
Jasjit Singh : Tue Feb 07 2012, 03:29 hrs

The first lesson in diversifying sources of arms was learnt when India mobilised and deployed its armed forces on the border in early 1951 in response to Pakistan’s threat of war. And the aircraft selected was the Dassault’s Ouragon in preference to the British Meteor. US arms aid to Pakistan after 1954 led to an expansion of the IAF and the first fighter selected was the Dassault’s Mystere IVA, the most heavily armed combat aircraft that the IAF has had till the Su-30MKI joined the fleet.

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 07 Feb 2012 09:11

abhishek_sharma wrote:US and Pakis should not take credit for Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan. The right question to ask is:

Let us assume that X Afghans died in the conflict from 1979-1989.
Was Pakistan/US willing to sacrifice X citizens for defeating soviets.
My guess is no.

I know money/arms matter but they are relatively less important.

There was no victory to begin with. Soviets withdrew under their own compulsions. Even after the Soviet withdrawal in 1988-89, the Afghan National Army continued to fight till March 1992 (and scored some big victories against the mujahids) a whole 3 years past the withdrawal. It was only after the breakup of the Soviet Union and as a result stoppage of the aid money that their fighting ability went south in a hurry.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 07 Feb 2012 09:13

pakistan ka matlab yeh Hai

( Veena Malik is Safe in indian arms )

Pakistan: Three women killed for "loose morals": "They deserved death. I can’t let my wife talk to other men"When violence doesn't "work" to the satisfaction of the one throwing the punches, it tends to escalate. The final result was a triple homicide. "‘Honour’ crime: Three women killed ‘for loose morals’," by Owais Jaffery and Tariq Ismaeel for the Express Tribune, February 5:
Kot Chuttha police have arrested a man who has admitted to killing his wife, Samina, her sister (his brother’s wife) and their mother in collusion with his brother in a Dera Ghazi Khan village.
Talking to The Express Tribune at the police station, Ismaeel said he did not believe he had committed a crime. “My wife and her sister (his brother’s wife) had loose morals. They deserved death. I can’t let my wife talk to other men,” he said. He said he had caught Samina (his wife) talking to a man over cell phone.
The suspect said he and his brother, Imran, had shot and killed Samina and Zarmina, their wives, and their mother, Kulsoom, on Friday night. “Their mother was to blame for it. She had failed to raise her daughters in accordance with our traditions. I had warned her (mother-in-law) several times to control her daughters,” he said.

arunsrinivasan · Post by **arunsrinivasan** » 07 Feb 2012 10:32

shiv wrote:Pakistan's future is with India and not against India.
...

Hakim sahab, I presume you are talking from an economic perspective. I think most people in TSP believe that China is a better bet than India. Would be nice to get an understanding of the comparative strengths of China vs India for TSP. Has that been tackled before? If yes please share a link. Thanks.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 07 Feb 2012 10:37

arunsrinivasan wrote:
shiv wrote:Pakistan's future is with India and not against India.
...
Hakim sahab, I presume you are talking from an economic perspective. I think most people in TSP believe that China is a better bet than India. Would be nice to get an understanding of the comparative strengths of China vs India for TSP. Has that been tackled before? If yes please share a link. Thanks.

Pakistan consists of a largely agrarian population whose produce is most useful/usable only in nearby India. The area called Pakistan was economically integrated with India for millennia before 1947. China ain't gonna be able to step in anytime soon no matter what Paki delusionals imagine. Pakis have little to trade with China and plenty to trade with India, given their core economy and tenuous Himalayan road links to China.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 07 Feb 2012 10:38

Chor Chor Mausere Bhai , Ik Khusra Ik Harjai
Gas accord will be honoured, Iran assured

ISLAMABAD: Notwithstanding international pressures, Pakistan gave on Monday an unequivocal assurance to Iran that it would implement, on a fast track basis, multi-billion-dollar gas and electricity import projects.
“Pakistan is fully committed to importing electricity and gas from Iran and we are working on a fast track basis to finalise these deals at the earliest,” Dr Abdul Hafeez Sheikh, the prime minister’s adviser on finance, told visiting Iranian Deputy President Ali Saeedlou.The assurance was given at a time when Washington is putting pressure on Islamabad to back off from the Iran-Pakistan gas pipeline project, under which the country is to receive up to one billion cubic feet of natural gas from Iran by 2014.The US, which has intensified its efforts for increased economic sanctions against Iran, offered to Pakistan alternative sources of energy in the form of LNG imports and natural gas transmission from Turkmenistan.

Charlie · Post by **Charlie** » 07 Feb 2012 10:50

Pakis itching to do a Lankan Army on Balochis.

Pattom · Post by **Pattom** » 07 Feb 2012 12:09

Chicago Paki cabbie pleads guilty to terrorism

Possibly the leading intellect on Deaf and Dumb, who was featured on Pakistani Achievers when he got a taxicab medallion, has admitted to plotting against the land off which he leeches.

jrjrao · Post by **jrjrao** » 07 Feb 2012 17:47

NY Times report of today shows how very desperate and how very pathetic the Amerikhan is, in trying to beg the MUNNA to go back being the MUNNA of the old.

"please, pretty please, will you please accept new fresh arms from us"?

"please, come on now, can't we restart the "training" program we had set up just for your officers"?

"please, can we now just go back to the sweetness of the past"?

U.S. Sending Commander to Repair Ties With Pakistan

WASHINGTON — A senior American military commander is expected to travel to Pakistan this month in what Obama administration officials say is the first step toward thawing a strategic relationship that has been in effect frozen for more than two months.

Pakistani and American officials are quietly optimistic that ... a chain of public engagement and private negotiations that will reboot the two nations’ frayed strategic relationship...

The State Department is supporting a proposal circulating in the administration for the United States to issue a formal apology for the deaths of the Pakistani soldiers in the Nov. 26 airstrike by American gunships.

“We’ve felt an apology would be helpful in creating some space,” said an American official who has been briefed on the State Department’s view and who spoke on the condition of anonymity as internal discussions continued.

American officials in Washington said the thaw had already started, unofficially...
On the military side, Pakistan’s generals had started discussions over border coordination and the resumption of Coalition Support Funds, the main United States subsidy to Pakistani military operations.

Behind the scenes... General Mattis will try to learn what is possible in the relationship regarding training, arms sales and improving border coordination centers.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 07 Feb 2012 18:41

shiv wrote: I am definitely tickled by the way I can provoke "American honor needs to be defended" reactions form BRFites by being sufficiently critical of the US. This speaks volumes about the way the US has managed to build up a loyal group of followers from all nations - but it is the Indian followers who are relevant to me.

DocJi, I think you are way too obsessed and overusing this cliche about American loyalists garbage. It belittles everything else you say, and in fact when I see this cliche right at the beginning of your post, I ignore the rest, extrapolating that its got to be some similar hot air. Nobody here is defending American honor. At least I am not. I can't imagine how you can conclude that if you have read my posts both here and on Indo-US thread where I am biting in my sarcasm and mockery of US foreign policy motives, and the religions/racial bigotry that dominates US domestic politics. But I do acknowledge a statement of reality that US is a supreme super power, one should not be misled about some US elites bemoaning its decline, and it has used its enormous military/economic/diplomatic prowess to prop up TSP and box us SDREs in a South Asia box, and worldwide, it has secured its interests like a bullying street thug and masquerades its real intentions through pompous claims of supporting democracy and human rights.

My gripe is with Indian leaders from VajpayeeJi who mumbled about "India and US are natural allies" to Jassu bhai who gubos before
"my fried Strobe", and of course to MMS who has exceeded all his predecessors in rendering India a pathetic soft state. Had Indian leadership played a bit more hard ball post 9/11, we wouldn't be in this situation today where TSP, the biggest perpetrator of terrorism, remains unscathed militarily, in fact gaining strength as AfPak winds down. And only Indis suffers as a result, not US.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 07 Feb 2012 18:57

My gripe is with Indian leaders from VajpayeeJi who mumbled about "India and US are natural allies" to Jassu bhai who gubos before
"my fried Strobe", and of course to MMS who has exceeded all his predecessors in rendering India a pathetic soft state.

I see nothing wrong in Vajpayee's statement there. I see for example everything wrong in MSAs statement that says Pakistan and India are natural allies and we should face the world together. If India ever develops that Islamic world view, i'd be on America's side if it opposes an India like that. I and most Indians i am sure still value value systems. That the fastest growing faith in the US is Dharmic is not lost on all. Of all major countries in the world, US and India indeed are beginning to share a lot. As for soft state, we are in the throes of appeasement politics which is really the source of your anger and the apparent softness of our state versus Terror inflicted, Islamist violence and such. Jassu is an old feudal, these folks love Gora company and he'd rather spend his evenings sipping cocktails with Strobes, feudals from Pakistan share Urdu couplets while gaining political mileage in a Hindu party.

deepan gill · Post by **deepan gill** » 07 Feb 2012 20:04

Many Indians who move from lousy India to bountiful America retain memories of all that was bad in India and feel strongly about all that is good in America, and that shows up in what they say. They do not necessarily like being told something different, and react with anger. Americans are wont to react particularly aggressively to criticism of America in my observation, because they are indoctrinated into believing America's superiority. It is hilarious that this bunch is now fighting Islamist who are indoctrinated into believing the superiority of Islam

.

Hi Shiv,

I am sorry but I disagree with your statement above. I know many Indian Americans 1st and 2nd generation who did not find India to be lousy. The memories that I retain of India is that India is a Socialist State where polity is so corrupt that it will take many years to cure. Yet, with all the misery it is our home. It is Indians who are unable to digest criticism, it is Indians, who believe they are the center of universe and when they come to foreign lands, they realize India is some third world and no one cares.

Americans on the other hand, will take criticism well. If they find no merit in the criticism they will ignore and walk away. Americans are not indoctrinated into anything, the only thing they are indoctrinated is, no matter what happens, America will take care of its citizens, and no matter what part of globe they are in, America will take care of its own. I don't know about you but this is what vedic India used to be. Every Indian today hopes for the same from India as well. As for US fighting Islamist fundoos, America reacted, and reacted in the language that enemy understands, someone explain to me how has India reacted. Next time when the oath is read out to the elected PM please listen to the words in English carefully and then ask whether they performed their duty for all these years.
Jai Hind

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 07 Feb 2012 20:24

^^^ Another newbie falls hook, line and sinker to the hakim.... And proves shiv's point along the way.... par for the course, of course.

deepan gill · Post by **deepan gill** » 07 Feb 2012 20:29

Rationalization after rationalization is articulated by these Pakis while their circle of influence shrinks; so far will our bounteous mother Bharat let them retreat into the welcoming folds of her sari that they blindfold themselves ever more tightly with her pallu and convince themselves that all is well.

This is a brilliant piece. This part I have quoted is so well written!! This forces me to think, if Pakistani establishment keeps allowing such forces to creep into urban centers, and all other aspects, eventually they will be right at India's borders. Will India give birth to a Prithvi Raj and Hari Singh Nalwa to counter this menace?

The other question, rationalization of Indian intellectuals when it comes to appeasing the Islamic view of Indian Muslims, what will that lead to? What impact will it have on Indian society? What will be the consequences of social engineering in India?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 07 Feb 2012 20:30

Hari Seldon wrote:^^^ Another newbie falls hook, line and sinker to the hakim.... And proves shiv's point along the way.... par for the course, of course.

Actually Deepan has been around since the late 90s.

Anyhow my OT reply is here
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 4#p1239214

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 07 Feb 2012 20:34

deepan gill wrote:Americans on the other hand, will take criticism well. If they find no merit in the criticism they will ignore and walk away. Americans are not indoctrinated into anything, the only thing they are indoctrinated is, no matter what happens, America will take care of its citizens, and no matter what part of globe they are in, America will take care of its own.

Except when the issue at hand is Pakistan, it seems like. Anyway, each to his/her own opinion, I guess. Have a nice day.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 07 Feb 2012 21:08

Pakistan nationals will be able to roam freely in India soon

In a bid to ensure more people to people contact, India is contemplating easing visa regulation for Pakistan nationals. With the cabinet note on the issue set to be tabled in a few days, it might be a couple of weeks before visa regulations are eased.

The new regulation ensures that Pakistan nationals on a visiting visa have wider access to the country, the new norms will allow Pakistan nationals access to five Indian cities as opposed to three cities earlier.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 07 Feb 2012 21:17

deepan gill wrote: Will India give birth to a Prithvi Raj and Hari Singh Nalwa to counter this menace?

Deepan when will your country, America, stop supplying the Pakistan army with weapons and money? When will an Indian abroad become an Udham Singh who avenged Jalianwala? When will an Indian in America stand up and punch an American politician in the face for supporting Pakistan? Or are they all Americans now, interested in saving American lives only? India is only home. Like a faded memory of a long dead mother.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 07 Feb 2012 21:37

Looking at it from a Pakistani viewpoint Faisal Shazad the Times Square bomber, and Dr Aafia Siddiqi are patriots who too the war against America to America. Faisal Shazad did not sit in the US asking when Pakistan would give birth to a Ghaznavi or advise fellow Pakistanis on how they should protect Pakistanis the way America protects Americans.

Because we Indians dislike Pakistan, we agree with the American viewpoint that Shazad and Dr Aafia are criminals/terrorist. But we are dhimmis. We have already forgotten that Reagan called Islamic terrorists from Pakistan as freedom fighters. The same guys are now called terrorists. We are quite happy to toe the American line aren't we?

Why should we agree with the US viewpoint? The US is a supporter of terrorism from Pakistan.

sum · Post by **sum** » 07 Feb 2012 21:39

WTF is wrong with GoI? We have still not been able to locate the last batch of "tourists" who turned up for Indo-ak cricket matches and now we have this?

Pakistan nationals will be able to roam freely in India soon

In a bid to ensure more people to people contact, India is contemplating easing visa regulation for Pakistan nationals. With the cabinet note on the issue set to be tabled in a few days, it might be a couple of weeks before visa regulations are eased.

The new regulation ensures that Pakistan nationals on a visiting visa have wider access to the country, the new norms will allow Pakistan nationals access to five Indian cities as opposed to three cities earlier.

Unlike in the past where Pakistan nationals were not allowed to enter and exist India from different cities, the new norms ensure that Pakistan nationals can enter and exit from different cities in the country.

India has also eased business visa rules for Pakistani businessmen. Business establishments with a turn over of half a million dollar or more will benefit with the new visa norms.

The new visa norms are expected to help students, senior citizens, business men, tourists and group tourists. The new visa regime however does not amend any restrictions for religious tourists.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 07 Feb 2012 21:40

Deepan when will your country, America, stop supplying the Pakistan army with weapons and money? When will an Indian abroad become an Udham Singh who avenged Jalianwala? When will an Indian in America stand up and punch an American politician in the face for supporting Pakistan? Or are they all Americans now, interested in saving American lives only? India is only home. Like a faded memory of a long dead mother.

I hope this is not an incitement to violence. It is however, irresponsible and reportable.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 07 Feb 2012 21:49

sanjaykumar wrote:Deepan when will your country, America, stop supplying the Pakistan army with weapons and money? When will an Indian abroad become an Udham Singh who avenged Jalianwala? When will an Indian in America stand up and punch an American politician in the face for supporting Pakistan? Or are they all Americans now, interested in saving American lives only? India is only home. Like a faded memory of a long dead mother.

I hope this is not an incitement to violence. It is however, irresponsible and reportable.

Go ahead and report it sir. "Incitement to violence" is a ludicrous claim given the statement that was made . Like saying "the girl was dressed so provocatively that I was incited to rape her" Incitement to violence indeed. I just love it.

Why is everyone shitting bricks when the US supplies lethal arms to Pakistan. Why this dhoti shivering di? People are so enthusiastic about rah rah rah ing the US and claiming that India is at fault for not giving rise to Prithviraj's. And we talk of nuking Pakistan. Nuking the Kaaba

Goes to show how scared ordinary citizens are about the US law enforcement apparatus in a country that tom toms freedom. I grew up with stories of how Russians were made to spy on their families and report them if they did counter revolutionary things. What you are doing is implementing the same for America.

Congratulations.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 07 Feb 2012 22:14

sanjaykumar wrote:Deepan when will your country, America, stop supplying the Pakistan army with weapons and money? When will an Indian abroad become an Udham Singh who avenged Jalianwala? When will an Indian in America stand up and punch an American politician in the face for supporting Pakistan? Or are they all Americans now, interested in saving American lives only? India is only home. Like a faded memory of a long dead mother.

I hope this is not an incitement to violence. It is however, irresponsible and reportable.

It is not, but rather a nieve expression of frustration on the wrong target. US is an oligarchy, and so contact with any politician of note, and that too us lowly SDREs is all but impossible except those Indian American shameless losers who turn up at Sarah Palin rallys of all people with placards that read crap like "South Asians" for Sarah and empty their pockets, mostly for personal recognition. Heck, in my 20+ years of living in US, I can count the number of times I have had an intelligent, non jingoistic conversation with an American, must less someone in power. They could care two hoots beyond football, baseball, and their latest gal/guy. Those elites with whom I did get to communicate with just dismiss us nationalistic SDREs when the argument gets hot. So, no, not everybody is an Uncle Tom establishment mouthpiece like Fareed Zakariah. Some of us try, but its impossible.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 07 Feb 2012 22:17

Here is some incitement to violence for Indians
1. In Pakistan shoot Hafeez Saeed
2. In India throw chappals at Mani Shankar Aiyar for advocating friendship with Pakistan
3. In Syria, kill Assad
4. In Iran throw a shoe at Ahmadinejad
5. In North Korea throw a brick at Kim Jong Un (or whoever is still alive)
6. In America shake hands with and cheer your senator because he protects you in the land of the free.

Now someone report me please.

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 07 Feb 2012 22:33

Cross Posted from the Af-Pak thread

Fantastic article. Have a read:

http://armedforcesjournal.com/2012/02/8904030

Quote:
Truth, lies and Afghanistan
How military leaders have let us down
By LT. COL. DANIEL L. DAVIS

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 07 Feb 2012 22:33

In contrast, a persecuted person/community in India could escape to virtually any place and survive in the easy weather. Food and water are fairly easily available also.

The indian subcontinent is so blessed that you do not need clothes (just a lungi) and you can sleep under a tree. It is the biggest arable landmass check this list

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/agr_a ... nd-of-area

1. Bangladesh (61.1%)
2. Moldova
3. Ukraine
4. India (51.1%)

There is no reason what so ever for Indians to be poor especially since they have been living in this land mass from centuries., the only reason that Indians are poor is because of the poor defense of this mass.

china only has 10%

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 07 Feb 2012 22:37

shiv wrote:Looking at it from a Pakistani viewpoint Faisal Shazad the Times Square bomber, and Dr Aafia Siddiqi are patriots who too the war against America to America. Faisal Shazad did not sit in the US asking when Pakistan would give birth to a Ghaznavi or advise fellow Pakistanis on how they should protect Pakistanis the way America protects Americans.

Because we Indians dislike Pakistan, we agree with the American viewpoint that Shazad and Dr Aafia are criminals/terrorist. But we are dhimmis. We have already forgotten that Reagan called Islamic terrorists from Pakistan as freedom fighters. The same guys are now called terrorists. We are quite happy to toe the American line aren't we?

Why should we agree with the US viewpoint? The US is a supporter of terrorism from Pakistan.

Reminds me a story.

One fine morning a beggar stood in front of a house and cried out loud "Mother, kindly give me some foood!". The daughter-in-law shouted saying "we are busy, come later". After waiting for another minute, the beggar moved onto the next house.

Then the mother-in-law came to the front-gate and called the beggar back. The poor beggar happily returned to this house hoping that he is going to get some alms. Then the mother-in-law said "Why the hell you are listening to the DIL, you stupid beggar? Who is she to ask you to come later? Now I am telling you - we are busy, come later".

Pakis are terrorists, whether India/US says so or not. I am happy as long as Pakis are recognized as terrorists, irrespective of who bells the cat.

By bringing Regan's "Freedom phitor" comment, you too are doing the same - giving legitimacy to Unkil's opinions.

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 07 Feb 2012 22:38

When will an Indian in America stand up and punch an American politician in the face for supporting Pakistan? Or are they all Americans now, interested in saving American lives only?

all NRIs have to do is send emails, faxes, phones to their local legislators telling them the perfidy of the naPakis.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 07 Feb 2012 22:41

SBajwa wrote:
When will an Indian in America stand up and punch an American politician in the face for supporting Pakistan? Or are they all Americans now, interested in saving American lives only?
all NRIs have to do is send emails, faxes, phones to their local legislators telling them the perfidy of the naPakis.

Well we are representatives of current GoI, which sends dossiers to Pakis

Yatha Raja, tathaa Praja!

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 07 Feb 2012 22:42

Exactly!!

What more NRIs can do!!

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 07 Feb 2012 22:44

Ati sarvatra varjayet!

Too much piskology is injurious to doctor's health!

Sharing opinion, not facts!

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 07 Feb 2012 22:57

harbans wrote:
We certainly are blessed with a geography that give us time to think and assimilate, that's about all. It doesn't give us an eternity to do so.

Bharat Mata's bountiful resources(including man power) give Hindus a chance to defend themselves. It was the vigorous defence mounted by the Hindus that slowed down the invaders for centuries and even forced them to accomodate(at least to a certain extent).

Hinduism's depiction as boa constrictor is a british artifact. Hindus actually shunned not just the invaders and their ideology(outrightly and completely) but even shunned those who were influenced by them or those who surrendered to them(willingly or foreced by circumstances). Infact, those who were lost to Hinduism in this manner were never re-assimilated(not even those who were forced by circumstances). A woman who was kidnapped and raped by the invader was effectively lost, as far as Hindu family was concerned(most of the times). The progeny of such rapes(or such connections) were not allowed into Hinduism. Such was Hindu orthodoxy.

It was not a perfect approach. But, perhaps, the Hindus of that time saw it as the only measure to keep their ideology safe from corruption.

In short, historically Hindus were not keen to assimilate any foreigner or his ideology. Further, they shunned them and any new converts(without second thoughts).

So, Bharat Mata's bounty was not used for assimilation but for mounting defence and mutinies. Again and again. Repeatedly. This process never stopped, even when the invader had already established his rule. Some group or the other raised their head and tried to challenge the invader. This forced the invaders to secure the support of the majority of population by allowing some concessions. This situation forced the invaders to take the help of local landlords, local rulers and even local Gurus. Of course, the invaders were barbarically cruel. But, they could not be as cruel as they wanted to be or as cruel as their ideology(or ideologues) exhorted them to be.

In conclusion, assimilation was never the way. Defence using Bharat Mata's bounty is.