Indo-Israel: News and Discussion

sanjeevpunj · Post by **sanjeevpunj** » 13 Feb 2012 22:19

Right, we got to see ramifications of this before reaching any conclusions.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 13 Feb 2012 22:32

>> If it turns out mossad agents were deported inspite of knowing that they were on the trail of terrorist someone's head has to roll

oh really ? mossad agents should have free run of the country without needing to notify us ? how stupid can you get.

sunnydee · Post by **sunnydee** » 13 Feb 2012 22:41

i said if we knew that they were on trail of terrorists. for eg: if we knew that they came after terrorists after we caught them how long would have it taken it to change this to a joint run operations by adding a liason officer from IB.
"how stupid can you get" - i am assuming that is mod language ?

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 13 Feb 2012 22:43

shyamd wrote:Israeli diplomats car hit by explosion on aurangzeb road, Delhi - condition of diplomat unclear. Bomb dismantled under diplomat car in Georgia and in another country.

OT but why the hell do we name a road after Aurangazeb'?

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 13 Feb 2012 22:45

KLNMurthy wrote:
shyamd wrote:Israeli diplomats car hit by explosion on aurangzeb road, Delhi - condition of diplomat unclear. Bomb dismantled under diplomat car in Georgia and in another country.
OT but why the hell do we name a road after Aurangazeb'?

There is one after Stalin another after Babar etc. Delhi is "secular".

Mihaylo · Post by **Mihaylo** » 13 Feb 2012 22:52

sunnydee wrote:i said if we knew that they were on trail of terrorists. if we knew that they came after terrorists after we caught them how long would have it taken it to change this to a joint run operations by adding a liason officer from IB.
"how stupid can you get" - i am assuming that is mod language ?

Ha!! you see such 'impromptu joint operations' in reel life not real life.
A joint operation is possible if proper protocols have been followed not when you are caught with your pants down as in this case. In almost all cases in every country worth its salt the same procedure would have been followed of deporting agents that have been caught even if the agents caught are from friendly countries.

-M

sunnydee · Post by **sunnydee** » 13 Feb 2012 23:09

I am not an expert on intelligence ops so i will take a beating on the first statement unless you are not an expert....

So what would we do if we know that the foreign agents are after terrorists but the sop states we need to deport them ?

pushkar.bhat · Post by **pushkar.bhat** » 13 Feb 2012 23:14

Smells like a false flag to me...

Mihaylo · Post by **Mihaylo** » 13 Feb 2012 23:18

sunnydee wrote:I am not an expert on intelligence ops so i will take a beating on the first statement unless you are not an expert....

So what would we do if we know that the foreign agents are after terrorists but the sop states we need to deport them ?

I am not an expert either. Just using common sense.

Besides who knows if there isn't a joint operation going on at this time (irrespective of today's incidents). However, if I have to bet my bottom dollar on this, I would think that joint operations are not the result of such scenarios as you paint but rather would be a result of following proper protocols, with solidified and unchangeable objectives and with a set timetable and of course a myriad of other things which a layman like me would not know. But this (as you describe) would never result in a 'joint operation' a la Bollywood ishtyle.

-M

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 14 Feb 2012 00:06

Rahul M wrote:>> If it turns out mossad agents were deported inspite of knowing that they were on the trail of terrorist someone's head has to roll

oh really ? mossad agents should have free run of the country without needing to notify us ? how stupid can you get.

++1.

doesn't matter if they were after terrorists. even if it was miraculously DI himself. it doesn't matter. sovereign countries, which aren't banana-republics, don't let known foreign agents run around if they aren't notified prior to arrival....that's how it works. any self respecting country does the same!

unless it is decided that they are going to shadow the foreign agents and see where it takes them! this is a valid excuse, and the only excuse.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 14 Feb 2012 00:15

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/0 ... n-israeli/

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 14 Feb 2012 00:26

I have a feeling it that wahabites are behind it. KSA stands to benefit a good deal in case of Israel-Iran war .

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 14 Feb 2012 00:59

Was a sticker bomb used in the Delhi car blast?
http://www.rediff.com/news/report/was-a ... 120213.htm

Quote:
Details into the car blast that occurred in New Delhi [ Images ] near the prime minister's residence remain sketchy with investigators still looking for more clues. Four diplomats were injured in the incident.
Investigators confirmed that it was an act of terror, and added that the role of various modules was being looked into. Israel has hinted that the Lebanon-based and Iran-backed Hezbollah could be behind the attack. However, India [ Images ]n agencies have said that there still is no concrete link to suggest that. They also do not rule out a stray Hezbollah operation in India. There has been a lot of activity ever since the 26/11 attacks in Mumbai [ Images ] where Israelis were openly targeted

( Watch The Video )

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 14 Feb 2012 01:19

Jhujar wrote:Was a sticker bomb used in the Delhi car blast?
http://www.rediff.com/news/report/was-a ... 120213.htm

Quote:
Details into the car blast that occurred in New Delhi near the prime minister's residence remain sketchy with investigators still looking for more clues. Four diplomats were injured in the incident.

Investigators confirmed that it was an act of terror, and added that the role of various modules was being looked into. Israel has hinted that the Lebanon-based and Iran-backed Hezbollah could be behind the attack. However, Indian agencies have said that there still is no concrete link to suggest that. They also do not rule out a stray Hezbollah operation in India. There has been a lot of activity ever since the 26/11 attacks in Mumbai where Israelis were openly targeted

( Watch The Video )

The key is its proximity to the PM's residence. People are overlooking the signigifance of that.

Secondly its nto a forerign substance that exploded as the Home Secy was airing!

Thirdly, the 26/11 attack was a Paki hand with US 'rogue' agent Daoud Gilani involved.

How many stray Hezbollah folks are in India

Most likely its Pak module which got outsourced this attack.

Pak has so many terrorist groups operating all over the place that they cant be ruled out.

nawabs · Post by **nawabs** » 14 Feb 2012 02:06

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 878760.cms

Investigators later got a crucial clue to the assailant in the footage from two CCTV cameras installed at industrialist Analjit Singh's 15, Aurangzeb Road residence. The bomber, in brown jacket on a motor cycle, is seen tailing the embassy car at 3.10 pm at a distance of 2-3 seconds. The cameras could not capture the registration number of the bike.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 14 Feb 2012 02:21

Am a noobie here so bliss be gentle

.

The moment I heard of the assassination modus-operandi of the assassins of the Iranian Nuke scientist. I wondered, how easy would it be to replicate in heavily populated areas, where mobility of the people is limited to mostly where there legs can carry (city centers in India , or even some areas of Massa Land for that matter). A person with a bike can easily merge in and out of traffic and later on merge into the crowd, its safe, easy and would be one of the first thought that comes to any demented individual.

Just like 26/11 would be in the reference books of the pigs, I think this would be the new way of assassinating anyone who drives around without vehicular security cover.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 14 Feb 2012 02:22

Was that lady or the embassy involved in nook business? Or else its a target of opportunity.

krithivas · Post by **krithivas** » 14 Feb 2012 02:45

This attack may have something to do with the deportation of two Israeli agents from Kerala?

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 14 Feb 2012 03:02

ramana wrote:Was that lady or the embassy involved in nook business? Or else its a target of opportunity.

She was off to bring her kids from school. Such activities have predictable routes and predictable timings.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 14 Feb 2012 03:18

FYI, Hezbollah have been making preparations for an offensive on the northern borders of israel. So this could have been that provocation. Lets see what the investigation shows.

anmol · Post by **anmol** » 14 Feb 2012 03:20

ramana wrote:Was that lady or the embassy involved in nook business? Or else its a target of opportunity.

This is the Facebook id of the lady https://www.facebook.com/people/Tal-Yeh ... 0189908949

Most recent entry on her wall (posted on 9th).. have some kind of personal website with lots of pictures of the family. Doubt anyone who is involved in nook business would post so much of personal information on the web.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 14 Feb 2012 03:24

So the attack was a random one on Israeli diplomat.

Despicable.

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 14 Feb 2012 03:32

Must be Shri Ram Sena carrying out one of their valentine day's eve attack.

Despicable indeed that third rate terrorist nations can act with impunity in our country without the fear of consequences.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 14 Feb 2012 03:36

- If a country (friendly or not) operates NOC agents inside India, they got to be neutralized (picked-up, prosecuted, deported, whatever) at the earliest. No matter however hollywood-kosher that work be, we dont want them. eg: No one in US is saying "we should have watched over Fai, he is a friendly. he might bag us bad-e-haqqani". But when it comes to India, we got to be accommodating?

- Everyone who is working inside India should be a part of official laison teams that work within the Constitution of India and New Delhi is not averse to such teams.

So Israelis were being less than stellar because:
- wrong to run a NOC team in a friendly country. Makes it worse that they seem to have run it in a shabby fashion.
- wrong in not informing the Indian side on any actionable intel that would have helped that lady not get critically injured today in Indian soil.
- if they feel a tipoff of their team happened (by xyz country) for a reason, they should have told Indian side about the general objectives

No heads in India need to roll for someone else's mistakes.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 14 Feb 2012 03:59

Technically speaking,a "false flag" op is where you recruit an agent pretending to belong to a particular country/agency,when you are actually the opposite.In this case the attackers well knew who they were attacking,from the diplomatic licence plates of the car.They would've monitored the movements for some time,and as a memeber has said,in India it is so easy to monitor anyone using a two-wheeler,the best mode of transport for surveillance.Given the ease with which the Pakis/ISI run their ops in India ,using their stooges of the IM and their numerous sleeper cells,it would've been easy for them to have executed the op.We well know that Chechen fighters were trained in Pakistan by the ISI too in the past.Georgia being a pro-western state would be easier for outsourcing the job to a Paki run entity,than having an Iranian/Hiz operative do the business.

This was a sophisticated attempted hit and not a youth seeking his 72 houris,betraying an agency at work.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 14 Feb 2012 04:01

Well whatever happens, blame should be with MHA or PC, he is ultimately responsible to provide security to all citizens/visitors of our nation. We can always deflect and say uncle Israeli didn't tell us this or that, but ultimately we should have had intel on the attack and should have been able to stop it. No excuses.

Now expect a whole host of copy cat terror attacks targetting someone important.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 14 Feb 2012 04:09

Thinking coldly and logically - as has been already said - nothing is impossible. Unlikely or likely is in our individual estimation.

Why is it impossible for Iran to try it? Just looking at the reactions here - we can see that, for the majority, Iran doing it is "impossible" to believe. Therefore all the more cover - if Iran really decided to do it. The message would go across to Israelis anyway - no matter what the majority of Indians refuse to or want to believe. The majority Indian faith in "Iran cannot do it" will guarantee that Iran's relations with India remains intact.

Is it impossible for the Pakis or any Islamists to carry this out? Not at all. It is actually more plausible to carry it out in India. Because even if the perpetrators are caught or nabbed and turn out to be Muslims, the Indian investigations are most likely in the end to exonerate them all charges - and may actually find the hand of saffron terror behind it.

The message still goes to the Israelis.
In fact either way it is the Islamist opposition to Israel who stands to benefit.

EITHER: If Islamists are caught or implicated, they will eventually be released and found not guilty or falsely implicated.
ELSE: If Indians manage to construct saffron hand behind this, then there is hope that Israel itself begins to doubt the reliability of Indians as an ally.
OVERALL : Such an attack is more likely to strengthen Indian support for Palestine. This will be based on a shrewd political estimate - that any Islamist terror, suspected or estimated - brings in more appeasing policy or gestures of appeasement from India.

As for Mossad agents, yes they do operate under the radar in many countries, as do agents of most other nations. Some are found to be completely "innocent" like the American citizen whose "email account" was hacked into in connection with a "terror" attack, while "Israelis" in sensitive areas are unlikely to be found innocent. If they really are Mossad agents, then they are used to such possibilities - and no big deal. Since Mossad operatives can be caught pronto by our intel, but not scouts like Hadley, we can safely conclude that pro-Islamic scouts/operatives have a special invisibility screen that does not activate the scanner which catches onlee non-Islamic operatives, saffron and Israelis.

On the other hand, it is not entirely impossible that Mossad and our intel do work hand in hand, but Mossad was getting on the nerves of and too close for comfort for people in the region we do not want to feel bad in any way - so the Mossadis had to be packed off.

OT for this thread: but are we not supposed to know and have complete intel from our intel about planned outrages such as this one in Delhi? We can prevent coups in BD and know everything that is going to happen in Male.

ManjaM · Post by **ManjaM** » 14 Feb 2012 04:28

Is it a coincidence that the attack was in India which is one of the few countries still actively trading with Iran. If it were Iranians, they could have picked Israelis diplomats residing in any number of countries across the world.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 14 Feb 2012 04:38

Bji:
What you are saying is either very profound or wrong. You are essentially saying BRFites think similar to the influential, powerful and strategists of India. You are propounding a theory based on the behavior of some BRFites. Just because some BRFites think something "impossible" does not mean Indian governmental authorities or institutions think the same way. Or you are saying Indian strategists think like BRFites

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 14 Feb 2012 04:39

Someone needs to say it : everything is possible, so maybe the Israelis themselves did it to perfidiously blame Iran or Hezb or Palestinians! No one else has any reason to do it it seems.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 14 Feb 2012 04:51

SwamyG wrote:Bji:
What you are saying is either very profound or wrong. You are essentially saying BRFites think similar to the influential, powerful and strategists of India. You are propounding a theory based on the behavior of some BRFites. Just because some BRFites think something "impossible" does not mean Indian governmental authorities or institutions think the same way. Or you are saying Indian strategists think like BRFites

Well if the gov thinks like BRF, it cannot function - because it will split in opinions right down the middle on almost everything under the sun. On the other hand, how can we distrust information from high level sources? This intrigues me, because there appears to be a pattern to the "misses" and the "hits".

On the other hand : which other country can you think of that would be better to carry out such an attack? A country friendly to both is the best one. For every other country, there are serious problems - India provides the least of those countering factors to pull it successfully off without losing the friendship of India as a consequence.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 14 Feb 2012 05:08

How was the attack in Tibsli, thwarted? Did anyone know the timing of both attacks in GMT maybe?

There seems to be a difference in the attacks.

The one in Tibsli was detected by the Embassy staffer and defused and disposed off by the local police.

The one in Delhi exploded within minutes of implanting the device.

Was the Tibsli attack earlier in the day than the Delhi one?

Maybe the attackers didn't want to take chances of delay in the Delhi attack?

Common thread is both cars were on way or returning from picking up children to school.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 14 Feb 2012 05:22

brihaspati wrote:Thinking coldly and logically - as has been already said - nothing is impossible. Unlikely or likely is in our individual estimation.

Why is it impossible for Iran to try it? Just looking at the reactions here - we can see that, for the majority, Iran doing it is "impossible" to believe. Therefore all the more cover - if Iran really decided to do it. The message would go across to Israelis anyway - no matter what the majority of Indians refuse to or want to believe. The majority Indian faith in "Iran cannot do it" will guarantee that Iran's relations with India remains intact.

Yes, Iran is such a power that it can guarantee beforehand that the perpetrator will not be caught, if caught will not reveal anything, if he reveals something, GOI will not act on it; that no foreign power will develop any useful information etc., so it will absolutely risk embarrassing one of its few remaining trading partners - it is just so plausible that I wonder why I didn't see it before.

Anyway, we don't know that Iran did not do it; what we do know is that the consequences for them less likely to be favorable w.r.t. India if they get caught doing it (so the motive is weaker) than e.g., a Pakistan-based outfit.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 14 Feb 2012 05:39

It is that belief that Iran cannot do it - or cannot even be behind it - [a Paki outfit could still be paid off to do it by Iran, theoretically] - which would be a great cover itself.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 14 Feb 2012 05:40

The other thing to note is the nature of explosives used. It seems that they were not powerful enough to cause and significant structural damage to the SUV (from the picture posted above), other than the usual burning (which is more of an after effect).

Maybe because these folks wanted to keep trace-ability from the explosives to a minimum they might have chosen locally (and easily) available ones and hence that did not have the explosive power to kill. The idea would then be use shrapnels to penetrate the glass (from the damage to the backside) and cause bodily injury instead (which is what happened).

Someone does not want any trail to be left behind.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 14 Feb 2012 06:12

less than 500 metres from Prime Minister Manmohan Singh's official residence

had it been manio, things would have been different.. I am ashamed people have belittled this.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 14 Feb 2012 06:20

ToI is now saying - Indian intelligence hints at Iran's hand

On Monday afternoon, a motorcycle-borne youth tailed an Israeli embassy vehicle on Aurangzeb Road in the high security zone in New Delhi, close to the PM's residence, and allegedly placed "something" on the rear of the car when it stopped at a traffic signal at the intersection of Aurangzeb Road and Safdarjung Road in the Capital's high-security zone.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 14 Feb 2012 06:21

Georgia-Iran relations:
2010:
Georgia Develops Functional Relations With Iran
http://www.jamestown.org/programs/edm/s ... no_cache=1

August 2010
Georgia and Iran: Saakashvili changing patrons?
http://www.georgiatimes.info/en/interview/45721.html

In September, during the UN General Assembly, Akhmadinedzhad raised a stink by saying that the terrorist act of September 11, 2001 was organized by American special services with the purpose of launching war in Iraq and Afghanistan. This is not the best background for Georgia-Iran relationship, considering Georgia's considerable material dependence both on the USA and European Union. That's why, perhaps, Deputy Foreign Minister of Georgia Nino Kalandadze has been repeating all these months that setting up relationship with Iran does not prejudice Georgia's donors.

However, Kalandadze is playing cunning. Iran is a scarecrow for the West and the relationship with Iran is the best way for Tbilisi to blackmail its cooling-down friends. From the economical point of view, Georgia will surely benefit from cooperation with the southern neighbor but it will suffer great losses should European Union grow resentful, and the relations with Iran won't make up for these losses.

Nov 2010
Iran-Georgia sign visa-free travel deal
http://presstv.com/detail/149549.html

Jan 2012
http://www.georgiatimes.info/en/articles/71247.html

Ex-president of Georgia and the seasoned diplomat Eduard Shevardnadze warns - participation in a military campaign against Iran would be disastrous for the country. He has not ruled out that Saakashvili may get involved in the operation to keep his seat, and this issue will certainly be discussed at the negotiations between the Georgian and U.S. Presidents Barack Obama on January 30. "They must not allow carrying out anti-Iranian campaign at the territory of Georgia", Shevardnadze gave advice to his "successor".

Feb 2012
http://www.georgiatimes.info/en/news/71683.html

Tbilisi cannot say exactly what position will take in the case of U.S. attack on Iran, the chairman of the Georgian Parliament David Bakradze said, according to "Georgia News".

http://www.georgiatimes.info/en/news/71798.html

Georgian opposition politician and billionaire Bidzina Ivanishvili believes that Georgia won't be used as landfill in a possible U.S. military operation against Iran, "Georgia News" reported.

According to the oppositionist, the issue of Georgia's active participation in the conflict is not considered, and such a problem doesn't threatened the country. "But if something like this happens - it will be big trouble. I hope it won't happen", Ivanishvili added.

Earlier, the chairman of the Georgian Parliament David Bakradze stated that Tbilisi can not say exactly what position they would choose in case of U.S. attack on Iran.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 14 Feb 2012 06:24

anupmisra wrote:ToI is now saying - Indian intelligence hints at Iran's hand

On Monday afternoon, a motorcycle-borne youth tailed an Israeli embassy vehicle on Aurangzeb Road in the high security zone in New Delhi, close to the PM's residence, and allegedly placed "something" on the rear of the car when it stopped at a traffic signal at the intersection of Aurangzeb Road and Safdarjung Road in the Capital's high-security zone.

^^^

Sources in Delhi Police did not rule out the possibility of Iranian sympathizers enlisting the modules of Lashkar, who despite their loathing of Shias, are unremitting in their animosity towards Israel.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 14 Feb 2012 06:31

b'ji, have you seen a single report yet that blames anyone but the iranians ? I haven't.
it is possible but highly unlikely. this would create tremendous pressure on India to back off from relations with iran.