India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

The Strategic Issues & International Relations Forum is a venue to discuss issues pertaining to India's security environment, her strategic outlook on global affairs and as well as the effect of international relations in the Indian Subcontinent. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Virupaksha
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 3110
Joined: 28 Jun 2007 06:36

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Virupaksha »

Theo_Fidel wrote:I was talking to my uncle just now and he said the odd thing is if MMS came down to Kudankulam personally and asked the people for 'theyagham' in national interest, with the understanding they would be benefited in future and would have some nominal say in future expansion/activities, this entire thing could blow over in a matter of days. The fact that he sends intelligence operatives rather than taking charge says a lot about the mean spirited nature of the man.
-------------------------------------------------------
Theo ji,

I have a problem with that. If MMS comes and "some" knuckle heads decide to say no, the only remaining option will be extreme extreme force. (just as in congress, Rani mata shows only her pleasant face to everyone except modi on whom the entire congress falls like bricks).

PMs publicly come at the final point of signature when it is already signed in duplicate. They only come to sign on the triplicate - and smile around in public - say on the occasion of opening of plant and announcing a local package.

yes, a highly regarded former President, son of the soil, a nuclear scientist to boot was sent as an central emissary. You can never get any higher than that. What your uncle seems to be saying is he wants a face saving gesture. There might be many other face saving gestures, like getting APK to speak once again in a seminar but sending MMS is not one of them, because if that fails - there will be no face saving gesture left from either side.

and at the end of it all, what the hell does that face saving gesture do?? Its clear that the local leaders especially the church has f*cked up.
Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21537
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Philip »

If saving face is more important tham getting satisfied about the safety of the plant,then the entire protest movement is a fraudulent one.The PM is not a nuclear expert and even if he visits what can he say,other than to echo what the country's finest nuclear experts have said before-that the plant is safe,which the PMANE rent-boys don't want to hear at all.They have a single-minded agenda to destroy the country's nuclear programme no matter how many layers of safety measures have been incorporated into the design.They are the equivalent of the Taliban who want to circumsise women,keep them in purdah and ban music!
amit
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4325
Joined: 30 Aug 2007 18:28
Location: The Restaurant at the End of the Universe

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by amit »

PratikDas wrote:
shyamd wrote:CBI, police to probe NGOs involved in anti-nuke stir

A file photo of the Kudankulam nuclear plant in Tamil Nadu. (Petr Pavlicek/IAEA)
The government is readying its ammunition against non-governmental organisations (NGOs), which it suspects are using foreign funds to sponsor the ongoing agitation against the nuclear plant at Kudankulam in Tamil Nadu. After North Block suspected serious financial irregularities by 12 NGOs in handling foreign funds in the southern districts of Tamil Nadu, the home ministry ordered a detailed inspection of their records and is all set to recommend CBI probes into the working of two NGOs while another two will be investigated by the state police.
It is understood that these NGOs had received funds from the US and Scandinavian countries.

Top government sources said a discreet yet comprehensive probe into NGOs allegedly involved in the Kudankulam nuclear plant agitation has identified a dozen of them suspected to be involved in falsification of documents, diversion of funds and lack of transparency in financial dealings.

The outcome of this probe was sent to home minister P Chidambaram and home secretary RK Singh a month ago. The matter was then referred to the foreigners division, which handles the Foreign Contribution (Regulation) Act (FCRA), 2010, for action. Show cause notices will be issued on the basis of alleged discrepancies, it is learnt.

HT's sources also said an American nuclear equipment contractor had informed the highest officials that the US and European NGOs were behind the agitation against the Kudankulam plant.

Now let's see the sequence news stories that have come out over the past few days. First the PM says US and Scandinavian NGOs involved in agitation. Then the names of the NGOs were flashed in the press with some estimates of the kind of money involved. After that a German national who was funnelling some of the money was caught and deported. At the same time we have this report of a CBI probe which could land a lot of people in loads of trouble, as we know.

And interestingly out of the blue the "good, patriotic and nationalist" anti Jaitapur protestors jumped into the fray by criticising the PM's comments and by preventing Kakodkar from speaking at an event even though the PM made no mention of the Jaitapur situation. Unsophisticated minds could construe that action by the Jaitapur champions as a sort of moral support for the "anti-national" KKNP agitators, nah? But more interestingly something must have happened behind the scenes to get the top leadership of the Shiv Sena shaken, otherwise how could one explain the very rare downhill skiiing exhibited regarding the Kakodkar incident.

And in all this Sanku ji stands magnificently stead fast with his one point babble: Man Mohan is only trying to muddy the waters and will do nothing to stop the anti nuclear protests...

One reason why I respect Sanku ji and am an avid reader of his posts is because he occasionally shows a remarkable degree of prescience whether wittingly or otherwise. In one of his earlier posts he had the famous quote: "Jo Lahore mein..."

How more true can it get?

:)
Last edited by amit on 28 Feb 2012 13:34, edited 1 time in total.
Virupaksha
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 3110
Joined: 28 Jun 2007 06:36

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Virupaksha »

Philip wrote:If saving face is more important tham getting satisfied about the safety of the plant,then the entire protest movement is a fraudulent one.The PM is not a nuclear expert and even if he visits what can he say,other than to echo what the country's finest nuclear experts have said before-that the plant is safe,which the PMANE rent-boys don't want to hear at all.They have a single-minded agenda to destroy the country's nuclear programme no matter how many layers of safety measures have been incorporated into the design.They are the equivalent of the Taliban who want to circumsise women,keep them in purdah and ban music!
The leaders are dead meat. No use beating them - better to give them some H&D and close the issue & silently take away the agent provocateurs.

Wish they could have been more inclusive, they could have brought some amount of much needed transparancy to nuke industry - like the sterilized zone. A completely lost oppurtunity for India on the nuclear side.
amit
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4325
Joined: 30 Aug 2007 18:28
Location: The Restaurant at the End of the Universe

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by amit »

One thing that needs to be understood is that any form of police action at KKNP has to come from the TN police, unless the centre decides to send in central paramilitary. And the situation on the ground does not warrant such an extreme action as the agitation leaders have been very careful to ensure that there's no violence.

So in that sense the PM is dependant on Jayalalitha. I think Sridhar ji has hit the nail on the head as to when moves the get the plant back on track will start - after the by-election. With 4000 MW deficit I don't see a practical lady like Jayalalitha sitting back for much longer.

JMt
Neela
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4137
Joined: 30 Jul 2004 15:05
Location: Spectator in the dossier diplomacy tennis match

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Neela »

Virupaksha wrote: The leaders are dead meat. No use beating them - better to give them some H&D and close the issue & silently take away the agent provocateurs.
Wish they could have been more inclusive, they could have brought some amount of much needed transparancy to nuke industry - like the sterilized zone. A completely lost oppurtunity for India on the nuclear side.
Indeed. I have said this all along.
Kick out the foreign anti-nuclear lot. They do not deserve to be here. Drag them to the airport and kick them out.
The rest- PMANE, church groups ,fisherfolk - they are our lot. Our peoples. They should be dealt with utmost respect,dignity and care must be taken to ensure that no aspect of safety was left to chance.

I do not believe that AEB couild have done anything simply because they did not expect this to happen. Hopefully, lessons are learnt and tghey form policies, consultation groups with locals for the other projects.
Sanku
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12526
Joined: 23 Aug 2007 15:57
Location: Naaahhhh

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Sanku »

nachiket wrote:
Sanku wrote:
Dont expect Man mohan to do anything +ve on KKNP and do everything to muddy the waters further.
Sanku saar, I probably despise the present administration as much as you do, but I feel you might be losing the big picture here. So far, MMS has only talked about the foreign money and NGO angle that we had been discussing here for weeks, which I think you'll agree is a clear and present threat. So I don't see how he has muddied the waters.
Nachiket-ji; some of the statements I have made are certainly "forward looking" in the sense that I have made yet another "ahead of curve according to Sanku :mrgreen: " statement, we shall see if this prediction turns out right or wrong.

Having said that, according to me Man mohan muddied the water by taking a "tu-tu main-main" approach; there is no doubt that the charges are valid, but what is equally true is that this is was a statement like saying "the sun rises in the east" and sleeping till 12 afterwards.

My point is; from the statement made does it
1) Help to influence protesters to back down or does it inflame them further?
2) Address the root causes both valid concerns, as well the real root of trouble making?


Clearly, even if you think that all protesters are idiots (which btw I dont, I think at least 3-4 issues that have been raised should be done by GoI anyway) -- I think you will agree that this is now a very sensitive issue and needs adroit handling.

Which would be a effective application of both the right steps as well as punitive actions.

The right steps like Independent agency, better compensation, more local engagement in security drills etc should be done VERY LOUDLY

The punitive actions like driving the bamboo up the meddling firangs should be done quitely, so that the locals whose sympathy they have gained are not upset and yet their influence removed.

Instead, the Man mohan creature has done everything the wrong way,
1) He has rubbed off a lot of people even more
2) He has done nothing really on ground to convince anyone of GoI (UPAs) intentions.

Good job, jai ho and all that.

The thing is, whatever be his personal credibility, when he makes such accusations as the PM of India, his words carry far more weight than those of the other people already saying it.
Sir-ji, unfortunately for all concerned, the PM position and Man mohan are inextricably intertwined, when Man mohan speaks, we can not say that he has "PM hat on" and not "a servituder of dynasty and god knows who else hat on"
he NGO's probably know how dangerous the central govt.'s machinery can be when they really want to get someone out of the way as we saw during the Baba Ramdev saga. They might take this as a warning to back off. If they don't we'll see the government's true colors anyways. So let's wait and watch.
Sir to take the precise example further, in Baba Ramdev's case, there was no warning, here there is, that in itself says that to silence Baba Ramdev was a need which was pressing for Man mohan et al, here as I explained, they are actually making things worse (as explained above)
Sanku
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12526
Joined: 23 Aug 2007 15:57
Location: Naaahhhh

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Sanku »

Virupaksha wrote: Wish they could have been more inclusive, they could have brought some amount of much needed transparancy to nuke industry - like the sterilized zone. A completely lost oppurtunity for India on the nuclear side.
That is the whole point, the way the situation is being handled is only going to put people back against the ways of GoI in nuclear sector more and more.

A pathetic handling if there ever was one.
Sanku
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12526
Joined: 23 Aug 2007 15:57
Location: Naaahhhh

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Sanku »

SSridhar wrote:
Sanku wrote:Dont expect Man mohan to do anything +ve on KKNP and do everything to muddy the waters further.
Sanku, your assessment may be wrong in this case. Man Mohan Singh cannot do anything without Ms. J.Jayalalitha and she is enjoying the discomfiture and helplessness of the Central Government even though the people of the state are suffering and except for a handful of people, there is no support for anti-KKNP protests even in the southern districts of TN.
...................
This agitation has been blown out of proportions because of inaction by the State & the Centre, for different reasons. Anything else is unalloyed humbug.
SSridhar Sir-ji; I humbly submit, I was fully aware of the dynamic that you mention, in fact a very long time ago, I had posted in exasperation that there is no use discussing KKNP any more because it now purely political and no merits or demerits of Nuclear energy and KKNP are germane to the matter any more.

After that I refrained from posting on the same.

However NOW -- what Man mohan has done is rather shortsighted (I personally would use the word criminally stupid if you will forgive me), clearly in the already heightened tension environment, is unfortunate in the extreme.

As I posted just a little while above, what was needed was sensitive handling with give and take

------------------------
Which would be a effective application of both the right steps as well as punitive actions.

The right steps like Independent agency, better compensation, more local engagement in security drills etc should be done VERY LOUDLY

The punitive actions like driving the bamboo up the meddling firangs should be done quitely, so that the locals whose sympathy they have gained are not upset and yet their influence removed.

Instead, the Man mohan has done everything the wrong way,
1) He has rubbed off a lot of people even more
2) He has done nothing really on ground to convince anyone of GoI (UPAs) intentions.
------------------------

I think we are going to see more and not less pushback, the Churchs which have been involved, can not be, and are not being shut down or separated, they will just not be able to handle the "external interference" by this piddling action of deporting one german and closing a few NGOs.

All this will do is warn the external agencies to become more discreet and also channel the anger towards GoI.

A perfect text book case of "how to lose friends and inflame people"
Sanku
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12526
Joined: 23 Aug 2007 15:57
Location: Naaahhhh

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Sanku »

amit wrote: And in all this Sanku ji stands magnificently stead fast with his one point babble: Man Mohan is only trying to muddy the waters and will do nothing to stop the anti nuclear protests...
That is unfortunately the reality, spin masters, apologists and other such distinguished personages apart.
Sanku
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12526
Joined: 23 Aug 2007 15:57
Location: Naaahhhh

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Sanku »

Philip wrote:If saving face is more important tham getting satisfied about the safety of the plant,then the entire protest movement is a fraudulent one.
Philip-ji, as I said long back, the issue had ceased to be one discussed on the merits of the situation a long time back (primarily due to the intelligence, transparency and trustworthiness displayed by GoI on the issue) -- this is now purely a perception issue for better or worse.

It can not be dealt like a "wooden ventriloquist dummy" approach; needs tact, convincing people by actions on the ground, and use of punitive machinery in the background.
SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 25387
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by SSridhar »

Neela wrote: The stories get weirder and loopier. Was not the same MMS described as:
playing to the Hinduism is in danger crowd!
Yet the same person , when he comes down, the issue will vanish it seems. I deeply suspect that there is a pun in "if MMS comes down" :twisted:
Neela, MMS has to come down like a ton of bricks.
vishvak
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 5836
Joined: 12 Aug 2011 21:19

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by vishvak »

Virupaksha wrote:
Philip wrote:If saving face is more important tham getting satisfied about the safety of the plant,then the entire protest movement is a fraudulent one.The PM is not a nuclear expert and even if he visits what can he say,other than to echo what the country's finest nuclear experts have said before-that the plant is safe,which the PMANE rent-boys don't want to hear at all.They have a single-minded agenda to destroy the country's nuclear programme no matter how many layers of safety measures have been incorporated into the design.They are the equivalent of the Taliban who want to circumsise women,keep them in purdah and ban music!
The leaders are dead meat. No use beating them - better to give them some H&D and close the issue & silently take away the agent provocateurs.

Wish they could have been more inclusive, they could have brought some amount of much needed transparancy to nuke industry - like the sterilized zone. A completely lost oppurtunity for India on the nuclear side.
Or may be the leaders taken to courts for many reasons, such as:
1. Not listening
2. Clearly indicating not to listen
3. Preventing workers in reaching nuclear plant thus disturbing day to day work & putting safety of plant, workers and others in jeopardy without bothering to find out if it could.
4. Berating scientists.
5. Attacking nuclear energy as a scientific field and potential.
6. Bluffing that nuclear energy is the thing of the past.
7. Bluffing during safety exercises.
8. Disinformation campaigns.

I don't think it is only the Govt. that can sue these people and their European backers. Anyone possibly can.

It is particularly important to get European troublemakers extradited to face Indian Law in bankrolling the protests in guise of funding the Church. No amount of bullshit should be accepted from anyone on this.
SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 25387
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by SSridhar »

I am encouraged by the deportation of the German national who was said to be a key personality behind the KKNPP agitation for this action was taken by the Q-branch of the TN Police.
Sanku
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12526
Joined: 23 Aug 2007 15:57
Location: Naaahhhh

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Sanku »

SSridhar wrote:I am encouraged by the deportation of the German national who was said to be a key personality behind the KKNPP agitation for this action was taken by the Q-branch of the TN Police.
But if the real push is coming from the Church, how much does removal of one individual help? A ban on foreign funds in general for religious organization may be far more meaningful act of control.
SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 25387
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by SSridhar »

Sanku ji, I do not agree with your assessment of Man Mohan Singh's statement and we can agree to disagree; but, I agree largely with other aspects of your post regarding tackling the situation. I have always believed that the unbending 'greens' would have to eventually come under law-and-order, the locals must be explained to in simple terms about the safety features and those leaders who are unreasonable and are intent on disrupting the plant must be dealt with severely.

However, it may not be possible to 'quietly' take punitive action against disruptionists. I am also sceptical about weaning away the locals from the clutch of these leaders because the Parishoners are tightly under the control of the Church. It is a possible reason for the hesitation of Ms. J. Jayalalitha. It is easy for these leaders to ensure that the locals remain 'unenlightened' on this issue and that is why taking action against these leaders (including religious ones) is important.
nachiket
Forum Moderator
Posts: 9207
Joined: 02 Dec 2008 10:49

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by nachiket »

Sanku wrote:
SSridhar wrote:I am encouraged by the deportation of the German national who was said to be a key personality behind the KKNPP agitation for this action was taken by the Q-branch of the TN Police.
But if the real push is coming from the Church, how much does removal of one individual help? A ban on foreign funds in general for religious organization may be far more meaningful act of control.
^^Wouldn't that require a constitutional amendment? And that would be like trying ti kill a fly with a sledgehammer. An NRI donating money to a temple or church charity can be considered as foreign funds being given to a religious organization. Trying to treat the symptoms would be better here. Like deporting the guilty parties and banning the NGOs. If the church loses its allies it can be stopped.
SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 25387
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by SSridhar »

Sanku wrote:But if the real push is coming from the Church, how much does removal of one individual help?
I didn't mean it that way when I wrote it. I am encouraged because the the TN police which was inactive (and even partial to the anti-KKNPP agitators) have acted now. Does it signal a change in Ms. J. Jayalaitha's approach ?
Sanku
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12526
Joined: 23 Aug 2007 15:57
Location: Naaahhhh

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Sanku »

nachiket wrote:
Sanku wrote: But if the real push is coming from the Church, how much does removal of one individual help? A ban on foreign funds in general for religious organization may be far more meaningful act of control.
^^Wouldn't that require a constitutional amendment? And that would be like trying ti kill a fly with a sledgehammer. An NRI donating money to a temple charity can be considered as foreign funds being given to a religious organization. Trying to treat the symptoms would be better here. Like deporting the guilty parties and banning the NGOs. If the church loses its allies it can be stopped.
I think not much can be done till we address the root causes Sir. Till then sending one German out etc is all right, but of limited utility.

Strictly OT; NRI sending money back will be ok, they are Indians after all, individual donations etc.

What should be stopped would be individual/institutional donation by non Indians to religious charities.

I have thought about it you know, including the demographics of which charities raise money how. :wink:
Sanku
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12526
Joined: 23 Aug 2007 15:57
Location: Naaahhhh

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Sanku »

SSridhar wrote:
Sanku wrote:But if the real push is coming from the Church, how much does removal of one individual help?
I didn't mean it that way when I wrote it. I am encouraged because the the TN police which was inactive (and even partial to the anti-KKNPP agitators) have acted now. Does it signal a change in Ms. J. Jayalaitha's approach ?
Good point, I would suspect probably not, since there are no indicators that her "demands" have been acceded to. Possibly something that TN Police had to do in this case since there was blatant violations of visa use norms.
Sanku
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12526
Joined: 23 Aug 2007 15:57
Location: Naaahhhh

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Sanku »

SSridhar wrote:Sanku ji, I do not agree with your assessment of Man Mohan Singh's statement and we can agree to disagree; but, I agree largely with other aspects of your post regarding tackling the situation.
Thank you SSridhar-ji; let us see how it pans out. Maybe we both will have reasons to reassess our current understanding.
SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 25387
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by SSridhar »

Let us also not kid ourselves that Ms. J.Jayalalitha can prolong without taking action because the power situation is deteriorating and people are angry, are losing jobs, businesses are hit etc. Any incremental addition to power would help that much. Ms. J. Jayalitha cannot keep quiet until wind situation improves in June or Mettur TPS comes chugging in another six months (if everything goes well) etc.
SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 25387
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by SSridhar »

Just now saw on the CNN-IBN channel that the TN government constituted expert committee has also certified the KKNPP as safe. That augurs well for re-opening the KKNPP.
Sanku
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12526
Joined: 23 Aug 2007 15:57
Location: Naaahhhh

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Sanku »

SSridhar wrote:Let us also not kid ourselves that Ms. J.Jayalalitha can prolong without taking action because the power situation is deteriorating and people are angry, are losing jobs, businesses are hit etc.
I am not really sure how much she can also do. A situation develops its own dynamics. The matter would also involve courts, the more the Govt pushes, there will be more push back. More court cases and what not.

This can quite easily go way the way of Sardar Sarovar project, the question is, will the Govt wake up and do the right things rather than be forced after 10 years of KKNP sitting idle while charges are traded back and forth.

We can all blame the protesters, but I would squarely blame UPA for messing the situation and letting a small itch bloom into a full fledged rash.

No gracefulness at all.
Sanku
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12526
Joined: 23 Aug 2007 15:57
Location: Naaahhhh

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Sanku »

SSridhar wrote:Just now saw on the CNN-IBN channel that the TN government constituted expert committee has also certified the KKNPP as safe. That augurs well for re-opening the KKNPP.
SSridhar-ji, do you think that the protesters are likely to be influenced by the local study? (This is not a rhetorical question at all)
Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21537
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Philip »

WE are dealing here with a situ where one side,the protesters are vehement in their demand for "NO nuclear power at any cost".Therefore,there is little chance of any compromise wiht them.The law must take its own copurse.If I start an agitation saying that there should be no two-wheelers on the road because of the thousands of deaths every month in the country due to them,will any govt. in the country listen to me?

The Q is what is in the national interest? We are a democracy,where the N-plant has been under construction for a very long time at huge exense,when on the verge of it going critical, and when it was only after we stood firm despite US pressure on the N-Liability bill,that the opposition to the plant and protests were suddenly "switched on",so obviously at the behest of the "foreign hand".The Fukushima catastrophe was a happy coincidence,taken advantage of to put fear into the minds of innocent simple fisherfolk and locals.That the entire affair is being orchestrated by the US and its cronies is being lost in the debate about local fears etc.,which are another tangential issue and require a different method of redressal,as some have suggested.This does not mean that we should shy away from exposing the true nature of the protests and the issues involved.At stake is the future of the nation's N-programme and its cascading effect upon the power situ and the economy ultimately.
SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 25387
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by SSridhar »

Sanku wrote:I am not really sure how much she can also do. A situation develops its own dynamics.
Sanku ji, all that you say may or may not happen. But, if she keeps quiet and doesn't cooperate with the Centre (without even taking the side of the agitators), then nothing can happen for the re-opening of the plant. That much is certain. To that extent, I am, as a supporter of KKNPL, feeling encouraged.
SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 25387
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by SSridhar »

Sanku wrote:
SSridhar wrote:Just now saw on the CNN-IBN channel that the TN government constituted expert committee has also certified the KKNPP as safe. That augurs well for re-opening the KKNPP.
SSridhar-ji, do you think that the protesters are likely to be influenced by the local study? (This is not a rhetorical question at all)
It will not unless and until the locals are removd from the clutches of these 'leaders'. However, Ms. J.Jayalalitha cannot remain silent after this. She would have to explain to the people of the state why she was refraining from acting after all these.
chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34990
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by chetak »

Sanku wrote:
SSridhar wrote:{quote="Sanku"}But if the real push is coming from the Church, how much does removal of one individual help?

I didn't mean it that way when I wrote it. I am encouraged because the the TN police which was inactive (and even partial to the anti-KKNPP agitators) have acted now. Does it signal a change in Ms. J. Jayalaitha's approach ?
Good point, I would suspect probably not, since there are no indicators that her "demands" have been acceded to. Possibly something that TN Police had to do in this case since there was blatant violations of visa use norms.

Why are we always so toleramt of white folks crapping on India, even today??

Colonial hangover? or st antonia syndrome?

Either way we should be ashamed. Piddly norway grabbing hold of two Indian Passport holding kids and harassing the parents. Never ever heard of anything like this.
Sanku
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12526
Joined: 23 Aug 2007 15:57
Location: Naaahhhh

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Sanku »

Philip wrote:WE are dealing here with a situ where one side,the protesters are vehement in their demand for "NO nuclear power at any cost".
I do not think that has been the position of most, a few possibly but certainly not the most. In any case even if that was the situation, assuming so, there is still only a few things that the Govt can do.

They are not going to deport the entire population around the plants forever are they?
Sanku
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12526
Joined: 23 Aug 2007 15:57
Location: Naaahhhh

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Sanku »

chetak wrote: Either way we should be ashamed. Piddly norway grabbing hold of two Indian Passport holding kids and harassing the parents. Never ever heard of anything like this.
True; fully agree.
chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34990
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by chetak »

SSridhar wrote:
Sanku wrote:{quote="SSridhar"}Just now saw on the CNN-IBN channel that the TN government constituted expert committee has also certified the KKNPP as safe. That augurs well for re-opening the KKNPP.

SSridhar-ji, do you think that the protesters are likely to be influenced by the local study? (This is not a rhetorical question at all)
It will not unless and until the locals are removd from the clutches of these 'leaders'. However, Ms. J.Jayalalitha cannot remain silent after this. She would have to explain to the people of the state why she was refraining from acting after all these.
The "shiv sena" has weighed in from coimbatore.

Is aunty JJ going to make it a religious thing??

Shiva Sena activists demand early commissioning of Kudankulam power project
chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34990
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by chetak »

Or is it just a common or garden variety property dispute with the frocked worthies promising their "innocent" flock more shekels :)

Plea to give jobs to local youths in Kudankulam power project
Memorandum to PM seeks more compensation for land and insurance cover


The Kudankulam Land Protection Council has urged the government to provide suitable employment to the educated youth in the Nuclear Power Project.

In a memorandum to the Prime Minister, Manmohan Singh, the secretary of the council, R. R. Raja Ram said that a majority of the people in Kudankulam favoured the commissioning of the nuclear power project as they thought it would bring prosperity and job opportunity to the locals. It is because of this that they gave their land for a pittance. However, the management failed to fulfil even the minimum aspirations of the local people.

Citing the directive passed by the Madurai Bench of the Madras High Court a few years ago, directing the KKNPP management to give priority in jobs to the displaced persons and the locals, he said that this was never implemented. The people in the area believe that such acts of omission have only resulted in the present stalemate. People still believe that the support of the local people can be got if some of the demands are met.

He also noted that the PM should announce that the people living in Kudankulam need not vacate their houses once the plant was commissioned. Approval for constructing new houses should also be given by the local panchayats and protected water should be made available to all houses in Kudankulam. To encourage agricultural activities, all the five major tanks around Kudankulam viz, Maruthakulam, Kurinchikulam, Sanankulam, Uppilakulam and Kuluvanerikulam should be renovated and filled with water from either Tamirabarani river or from Palayaru Shuchindrum river. Schools, colleges and technical institutions should come up in Kudankulam for the benefit of the locals. A super specialty hospital should function round the clock in Kudankulam, he said.

Expecting employment in the plant, the locals had given up their land for Rs. 2000 per acre but as they got no benefit from the project, a market rate of Rs10 lakh per acre should paid for the land acquired. All basic infrastructures such as roads, drinking water, sewage lines, street lights and children's park should be developed at Kudankulam and the local people should be provided with an insurance coverage of Rs. 5 lakh etc.

Any project of such magnitude cannot run smoothly without the involvement and the support of the locals, hence the Government should consider their genuine demands and redress their grievances before commissioning the project.

A copy of the memorandum has been sent to the project director of KKNPP and the Collector of Tirunelveli district to take immediate steps for the benefit of the local people, said Raja Ram
harbans
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4883
Joined: 29 Sep 2007 05:01
Location: Dehradun

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by harbans »

Many of these large projects that are put up, don't have to much population in their vicinity. Mostly it would be a lakh in the nearby vicinity. We also know that agitations and land acquisition problems are becoming endemic. Local village level folks may not be able to see the long term benefits that accrue with such large injection of money. The majority really don't also benefit in the short term to medium term. That's where the temptation to give a few hundred thousand dollars in doles to key players, it's easy to create an agitation. Suggest the GoI make some sort of bench mark that provides immediate visible benefits as the project comes up. For example a project 2 billion USD and more investment, an investment of 15 crores on a High school, Vocational Institute (that create opportunities in local units themselves), Health clinic would be feasible and very tempting to a vicinity population of 1 lakh.

Today viewed from the eyes of a local villager who has not even got money for the land a big project offers no medium/ short term benefits. A bench mark that would involve constructing these kind of facitlites would provide temptation and benefits to local communities that are against offering land for development plans. The State and Central establishments must sort out some kind of guidelines to provide such benefits to the local populace to prevent them falling into the hands of unscrupulous foreign set ups and agendas. There are lessons to be learnt from this fiasco.
Sanku
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12526
Joined: 23 Aug 2007 15:57
Location: Naaahhhh

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Sanku »

harbans wrote:..... The State and Central establishments must sort out some kind of guidelines to provide such benefits to the local populace to prevent them falling into the hands of unscrupulous foreign set ups and agendas. There are lessons to be learnt from this fiasco.
+1; Fully agree, we need to see this approach on the ground.
Neela
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4137
Joined: 30 Jul 2004 15:05
Location: Spectator in the dossier diplomacy tennis match

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by Neela »

What ? Job? IN new nuclear power plant? Nooooooooooooo! That cannot be!!

I know. I have never been there but I know.
100% of the poeple want No power plant.
There is power excess in TN so we don't care. And we are patriots.
There is seismic activity there.
No church recd foreign funds - show proof. This has no foreign connections.
The church is blameless in all this.
We want the PM to come here and do somersaults. Maybe PM can also do strip show.
We want a panel for assessing risk. No scientists there though. Only people chosen by us.
We know the dangers. Indian scientists know nothing. We are barely educated but we know more.
Don't push us further. We have no standing but we will resort to violence. And the PM is to blame.

:roll:
nuff said
SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 25387
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by SSridhar »

Neela, that is a good summary so far.
SSridhar
Forum Moderator
Posts: 25387
Joined: 05 May 2001 11:31
Location: Chennai

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by SSridhar »

Anti-KKNPL stir may be aimed at scuttling India's nuclear programme
In the past few weeks there was no word about nuclear safety. Questions were about reprocessing and the second stage (of the nuclear programme) where plutonium would be produced for Fast Breeder Reactor and that was “under attack.” Stating that India wanted to be world leader in taking nuclear technology to the thorium reactor, he [Nuclear Power Corporation of India Limited's Chairman and Managing Director S.K. Jain] said so far nuclear technology had been the domain of a few rich countries.

He said what was there in Kudankulam today was the so-called international green activists and lobbyists, with of course some elements of local politics.

Mr. Banerjee said that from safety the questions were now diverted to a totally different area of reprocessing of spent fuel while Kudankulam was not going to have a reprocessing plant.

The Tamil Nadu government was requested to facilitate entry of NPCIL personnel into the plant and make it ready for commissioning. Within two months of the zero date, the plant would be ready for loading the fuel. “We didn't get any reply so far [from the State government],” he said.
VinayB
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 93
Joined: 19 Jan 2011 14:23

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by VinayB »

Theo_Fidel wrote:... Very head scratching moment. Very reminiscent of the past. ..
There are things about him and his government that will be revealed in the coming months.
His government would be the UPA government guided by the UPA chair-person. So this is a RSS conspiracy funded by the west and mounted by Tuticorin church?

Scratching only!
chetak
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34990
Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00

Re: India Nuclear News and Discussion 4 July 2011

Post by chetak »

SSridhar wrote:Anti-KKNPL stir may be aimed at scuttling India's nuclear programme
In the past few weeks there was no word about nuclear safety. Questions were about reprocessing and the second stage (of the nuclear programme) where plutonium would be produced for Fast Breeder Reactor and that was “under attack.” Stating that India wanted to be world leader in taking nuclear technology to the thorium reactor, he [Nuclear Power Corporation of India Limited's Chairman and Managing Director S.K. Jain] said so far nuclear technology had been the domain of a few rich countries.

He said what was there in Kudankulam today was the so-called international green activists and lobbyists, with of course some elements of local politics.

Mr. Banerjee said that from safety the questions were now diverted to a totally different area of reprocessing of spent fuel while Kudankulam was not going to have a reprocessing plant.

The Tamil Nadu government was requested to facilitate entry of NPCIL personnel into the plant and make it ready for commissioning. Within two months of the zero date, the plant would be ready for loading the fuel. “We didn't get any reply so far [from the State government],” he said.
There have been insidious questions about reprocessing and India's plans for the FBR almost from day one.

The GOI has paid off a lot of the local leaders and trouble makers by cheque. These jokers seem to have reneged on their promises to stay out.

It takes but a simple "confession" to salve the conscience and seek forgivness for sins of commission and ommission. 8)
Post Reply