Indian Army : News and Discussion

nelson · Post by **nelson** » 03 Apr 2012 08:22

It is the same Natwar Singh. 'The Hindu' has refused to put on its site the following comment. Looks like some are more equal than others.

"It always happens like this in India. The corrupt have to, and will, defend their ilk. And the public lap it up because of their poor collective memory. To remind ourselves, Mr Natwar Singh was sacked from the Union Cabinet in the Food for Oil Scam.
As for the author of the post it is 'exiguous' that public money, yours and mine, is swindled by his corrupt brethren -the politicians, babus and their cohorts in uniform, but it is sanctimonious that the General brought it out, intentionally or otherwise.So Natwar adds his name to the list of persons who are baying for the General's blood, Lalu, Ravi, Mulayam...
For 'The Hindu' to devote its bandwidth/columnspace to such eminently corrupt people to defend the corruption is another astonishment."

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 03 Apr 2012 08:49

Brajesh Mishra's statements for VKS head can lead us to clues if George Fernandes was responsible for Adm Vishnu Bhagwat's sacking. IIRC, an Paki official in an interview was asked what if top BJP leadership were wiped out. he said nothing as Brajesh Mishra will continue running the government. (not exact sentence.)

Interesting fellow, who decided the fate of nation during NDA tenure.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 03 Apr 2012 09:32

I hold no brief (or briefcase) for K.NWS. "Nitwit" Singh's reputation might've been tarnished for the Iraqi food for oil scandal,but he has an extremely incisive mind and was a Congress insider for aeons and past FM.His viewpoint about the CCS,etc. are valid.His fault.He got caught,unlike many of his colleagues, and by comparison his misdemeanours are a trifling matter,when you compare them with the current mega-scams involving billions.In fact,he never stole from the country's till,he merely allegedly used his connections to make some extra pocketmoney thanks to pal Saddam! Man Mohan's cabinet colleagues and party cronies like Kalmadi,stole billions from the nation's treasury right under his nose...while his own PMO was busy putting the finishing touches to the mothers-of-all-deals,Antrix and Coalgate (one could make a super cartoon out of that scam,the PM brushing his black teeth with "coal-gate")!

"Nitwit" does cut through the skin,flesh and bone and gets to the heart of the issue,whether one agrees with him or not.He is extremely blunt.He also has a three-point solution,which is a practical one.

The Prime Minister has three options. Immediate damage control. Ask the Chief of the Army Staff not to go to the media. And request the Defence Minister to be more alert and assertive.

I agree with him on some points,neither the chief nor the DM are paragons of virtue,honest men though they may be. As said many a time that the chief's many lengthy media interviews and lengthy explanations,the first for any COAS of the IA were unbecoming of a COAS,whatever the justness of his cause ,which in my opinion was a mistake.This led him open to attack from every quarter and the sensationalising of the issue in the media,a matter which a good PM would've sorted out in camera .(St.) Anthony,sat like the sphinx holding his head in his hands,so beautifully demonstrated by him to the house! He thus displayed his total incompetence,while the cartoon accompanying Nitwit's piece ,our beloved PM's indifference to the burning house like Nero fiddling,is the cherry atop the pile of sh*t.

The chief's allegations of bribery and corruption on just one piece of eqpt. now proven correct, has now opened pandora's box and what will tumble out of it in the future is eagerly awaited.(St.) Anthony's parting shot to the chief,"streamline" your process,as if it was the chief's fault that the preparedness of the IA is in such an appalling state,actually adds insult to injury.What was he doing for years? He must rival Deve Gowda for the title of super-sleeper! I am sure our tenacious chief will not let him get away with that parting shot.

PS:I once aeons ago,accompanied a foreign VIP to see Nitwit.It was an interesting meeting.He struck me as being too clever of himself,high intellect-he's an authority on Forster,shades of pomposity and in many ways similar to Pranab M.A typical Congressman of the old order. Had he not got caught,he probably would've still been FM.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 03 Apr 2012 09:52

One would have thought India Today would have had at least a shred of self-respect, but no -
General VK Singh's item number in Anna Hazare's tamasha - http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/gene ... 82695.html

Tatra deal: If Ravi Rishi ‘sings’, skeletons could tumble out - http://www.firstpost.com/breaking%20vie ... 62632.html

Roperia · Post by **Roperia** » 03 Apr 2012 09:56

Video: IBN panel debate pins down who is at fault. The truth about Tatra deal: What's the inside story?

sum · Post by **sum** » 03 Apr 2012 09:57

One would have thought India Today would have had at least a shred of self-respect, but no -
General VK Singh's item number in Anna Hazare's tamasha - http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/gene ... 82695.html

Wow, IT really seems to be plumbing the depths...Has Kapil Sibal taken over as Editor of IT, going by the Lahori logic and language being used?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 03 Apr 2012 09:58

Don't forget Notwar Singh undercut India by saying the 1998 tests should not have been done after he was the Minister for External Affairs and that too in some foreign country.

Philip while he was giving you the interview he was scamming Saddam Hussein for money for his own account in addition to the INC account.

And he has the nerve to talk about an honest Army Chief.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 03 Apr 2012 10:09

...as I said,"typical Congressman of the old order" (Nehruvian, of '62 vintage)!

anjan · Post by **anjan** » 03 Apr 2012 10:25

Philip wrote:I agree with him on some points,neither the chief nor the DM are paragons of virtue,honest men though they may be. As said many a time that the chief's many lengthy media interviews and lengthy explanations,the first for any COAS of the IA were unbecoming of a COAS,whatever the justness of his cause ,which in my opinion was a mistake.This led him open to attack from every quarter and the sensationalising of the issue in the media,a matter which a good PM would've sorted out in camera

You're 300% right. The right course of action would have been to retire and fulminate on an internet forum. In the meantime he should have compiled a list of derogatory names for the PM, the same to occasionally throw out in said forums. That would have showed them!

And exactly why should he not talk to the media? Were you not the same poster grousing at length on the Army being treated like an unloved dog? Was that only a bash the congress exercise? This "unbecoming an officer and a gentleman" has been used as a convenient stick by the political class and their minders, our brilliant babus of the IAS.

Jaybhatt · Post by **Jaybhatt** » 03 Apr 2012 10:48

An Upright Civil Servant Assesses the VKS Affair

Like Abou Ben Adhem, may Omesh Saigal's tribe increase.

Alas, there are few babus like him in this country at this juncture.

More power to his pen.

By Omesh Saigal
30 Mar 2012 10:58:00 PM IST

The bribe and the babu

Whether General V K Singh’s sudden public revelation of the bribe offer, a year and a half after it was made, was the deft move of an ex-commando or the innocent protest against civilian apathy of a third generation soldier….well, let future historians decide. For me, though, it is a bold effort of a person who stands for probity and honesty and, maybe, it is a blow against the ‘consultants’ and middlemen ridden world into which the bureaucrat has to tread. I wish I had shown just a part of his courage when confronted with a similar situation.
I had just cleared my files as in walked an Member of Parliament who, though then in the Rajya Sabha from Uttar Pradesh, earlier represented Delhi, a state where I had spent the bulk of my working years. It was soon clear that he was here to request for postponement of an order for embossing a certain statutory warning on cola bottles, which, if implemented, would cost several crores of rupees to his bottling company. “We met the minister”, he declared, “he is clear that he will do as advised by you.”
His statement did not surprise me; a minister is supposed to be guided by the departmental secretary. What he said next took my goat. “How much do you think the minister will want?” he asked suddenly.
It was all so matter of fact that I didn’t even think there was something amiss. “Why don’t you ask his private secretary?” was my simple retort. For a moment he may have been taken aback but soon he quipped. “Okay, Mr Saigal….tell me how much do you want?”
My response, though instant, was quite different from the General’s ‘Get out’ reaction. I sprung up in my seat: “Slap me as hard as you can, Mr….!” And, before the taken-aback MP could react, I went on: “That will cause me less pain than your query.” With just a moment’s respite, I went on: “With my retirement just a couple of months away, I was happy in the thought that at least I could spend my old age narrating stories about my integrity and probity and the fact this was appreciated and accepted by all. But, sir, you have shattered that dream. I have nothing left to count now but my meagre retirement benefits, that won’t even buy me a two-bedroom flat in Faridabad.”
I salute the solder in General Singh for having the guts to disclose a fact like this while still in service because I have been able to do so only now, a full 10 years into my retirement.
The relationship between the babu and bribe has always been intimate, almost like the left hand to the right. My father, who joined the imperial services way back in the Twenties of the last century, often joked: “The corrupt person is a dohathad (two-handed)… he takes his salary with the right and uses the left to collect the balai money (bribe).”
In the ‘good’ old days the bribe was really of the nature of bakshish, a voluntary payment by the beneficiary. Even the British had found a way to ‘reward’ officers who spent almost their entire lives honestly serving the king and country. Just a few years before their retirement, they were seconded to the political service and appointed as agents in one of the princely states. It was a tradition to give dalis during Christmas. Naturally, the dali had to measure up to the ruler’s self perception and meant a substantial pre-retirement bonus for the officer.
Both the balai and the dali had one thing in common: they were voluntary. And that was essentially the nature of bribes that babus took. I found this early in my career, during my first posting in Hamirpur, UP. During tea with the SDO of the PWD, he had a visitor. Hardly any words were exchanged and the chap left leaving a few hundred rupee notes on the table. “Did he owe you the money?” I queried. “No, no”, quick came the reply; “this is my consultancy fee”. Seeing the puzzled look on my face, he continued: “You know the doctor, sees your pulse, tells you the medicine…and you pay him. Same with the lawyer….”. “But what advise did you give him?” I asked, still not clear what he meant. “Arre what else… I told him how to get his bill passed and to seamlessly get the cheque.”
It is not that all people who made balai were ‘consultants’. The SDO himself narrated the case of an engineer who cheats on cement and steel. “You know what happened to him?” The SDO confided. “A bridge made by him fell down and he is still serving a jail sentence!” He himself never let such events cloud his ‘consultancy’.
Another version of the ‘consultant’ was the babu in Akbar’s court who refuses to give up his corrupt ways even after umpteen transfers from one job to another. A not very amused emperor orders his transfer to the farther most corners of the empire. His duty: count the waves. It is not funny how he converted this too into a money making venture by not letting ships come in (of course without paying) as it would disturb the waves he was counting.
This guy may have thought of himself as a genius but he had yet to reckon with the 2G guys of our time. At least he could see the waves; the latter, who probably made more money than Akbar himself, was dealing with a much more invisible and insubstantial entity.
Whether the changeover from dali-balai to multi crore scams was seamless or can be pinned on a particular person or persons, there is no doubt the old order has changed and has yielded place to the new. The new order has given a new meaning to the word ‘consultant’, a meaning that will shake the old Hamirpur SDO out of his dhoti.
Whatever the consultant may appear on paper or through is CV, he is nothing but a middleman, an agent. His job is to get the contract awarded and then execute it through third parties….after retaining a substantial cut for himself and, of course, for the babu who facilitated his ‘consultancy’ in the first place.
The consultants have made it big now. In fact so big that they walk into offices of highly placed functionaries as was done in my case by the MP and in the case of the General by a highly ranked retired officer of the services. If Anna Hazare has made a big mark by pointing out to the need of reining in the babu through the aegis of the Lokpal, General Singh has sounded a powerful cautionary note to the babu to beware of the army of touts and agents, whatever they may call themselves. Apart from whatever he may have done in the Rajput Regiment, this will be the greatest service the General has done to promote probity in the bureaucracy.

(Views expressed in the column are the author’s own)

Omesh Saigal is former chief secretary, Delhi and secretary to government of India. E-mail: omesh2omesh@yahoo.co.in

© Copyright 2008 ExpressBuzz

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 03 Apr 2012 10:50

All the while the babus and netas do ungentlemanly things!!!

Jaybhatt · Post by **Jaybhatt** » 03 Apr 2012 10:54

Saint Anthony Assessed Very Perceptively

This should be of interest to BR colleagues. Those who think of Shri Anthony as the original saint, this may open their eyes. Or maybe not.

http://epaper.dnaindia.com/epapermain.a ... =2012-4-03

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 03 Apr 2012 11:02

So who leaked the General's letter to the PM?

Was there a time deadline or is it elastic now that the Army HQ was exonerated?

Jaybhatt · Post by **Jaybhatt** » 03 Apr 2012 11:21

ramana wrote:All the while the babus and netas do ungentlemanly things!!!

Hear, hear !

Jaybhatt · Post by **Jaybhatt** » 03 Apr 2012 11:26

ramana wrote:So who leaked the General's letter to the PM?

Was there a time deadline or is it elastic now that the Army HQ was exonerated?

It is early days as yet.

The ungodly may have many tricks up their sleeves, after losing the first round at the IB level. Trotting out Brijesh Mishra and Nutty Singh didn't work well for them at all.

Therefore, we can expect some really slimy moves from the dirty tricks lot in the near future.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 03 Apr 2012 13:45

Pl.Anjan,I too have my own opinions and respect those of others.I'm no spokesman for the Cong or UPA-2,far from it.I've always maintained that Gen.VKS is an honest man,but made mistakes due to poor judgement and I maintain that his media campaign,especially the style of it,was unneccessary.He was also naive about the assurances (not in writing) from his superiors.There were other methods which he could've used to equal effect.We can debate the issue endlessly.

The released details/ complaint about the Tatra bribe after the SC verdict on his DOB issue made it appear that it was because he lost his case that he had brought it up.Several upright senior retd. senior officers with unblemished reputations also felt that his judgement was poor and the tactics of his capaign showed the IA in very poor light.To put it in perspective,he allowed himself to be attacked as an ingrate,remember the "self before service" article,in truth, his campaign lacked finesse.

This is not to deny that his campaign against corruption was misplaced,far from it.This is what is expected of any chief,to fight against the corruption within the MOD,IA and place on record the shocking state of unpreparedness of the IA due to inaction by the GOI/MOD of the day.Kudos for him.Unfortunately,all the sound and fury on the DOB initially clouded the issue and the good general's timing of the exposes has led to the doubts initially expressed about his intentions.It is now clear to almost all ,as I said long ago, "something is rotten in the state of the IA/MOD" and a massive clean-up is needed.That we have to thank Gen.VKS for his role in bringing the sorry state of affairs to light is not in dispute.

It is a great tragedy that the regime of the day swings into action only when their backsides are threatened! This has been the case with all the recent scams and the suspicion ,now almost a certainity,is that the Cong./UPA-2 are heavily involved in the scandals and are primarily rsponsible for the plunder of the nation's wealth.It is inconceivable that (St.) Anthony ,a man of his reputation did b*gger all after the chief brought the attempt to bribe him to his notice,unless he (though personally upright) had something to hide,perhaps realising where the scam might lead to! Why did he act like a blind man and for so long? Instead of trusting his chief he trusted his babus in the MOD more.He has been an abject failure and there is no way in which he can salvage his reputation,in the manner in which the chief has done.The issue now is no longer that of an error of a DOB,but that of the entire arms procurement system,especially those involving PSUs,the tricks being used to heavily inflate products manufactured by PSUs and the true nature of "indigenisation",actually covert imports with accompanying ToT,merely screwdriver expertise.

This is why the DRDO is always treated by the MOD like a sacred animal.There is absolutely no accountability for its delays,failures and cost overruns.As Gen. Shankar Roy C put it,the IA is unconcerned about what a system costs,only its performance ,whether it meets requirements,as the armed forces are totally out of the loop when it comes to finance matters where the MOD rules alone.The BEML fraud must now see all PSU's being open to scrutiny and it is incumbent upon the CAG and CVC to expose the rackets in other undertakings where the "pickings" are huge.Tatra could be just the tip of the iceberg.

Gen.VKS has had enough time in office and still a few more weeks in which to lay a devastating paper trail (record) of the state of affairs within the IA/MOD which goes against the grain.AKA is now seen as not only being ineffective against corruption within his ministry,but also incompetent as he has allowed the state of health of the IA to fall to alarming levels.The knee-jerk actions being now taken fool no one.It is well known that decisions must be taken well in time as procurement takes years and training of personnel and commissioning of the systems add to the time before the systems have any real effect on the battlefield.If further revelations about other scams come to light,(St.) Anthony will have to fall on his own sword.Since he does not possess one of his own,he could ask Gen.VKS for the loan of his!

ManuT · Post by **ManuT** » 03 Apr 2012 16:28

IMO, you can't play in the World Cup without first playing the national team, it is more likely that Natwar Singh has had practice in his craft/graft.

I did not even read him, seriously that is.

nelson · Post by **nelson** » 03 Apr 2012 17:38

Former COAS Gen retd Shankar Roy Chowdhury "Defence Ministry kept all Army chiefs in the dark"

http://ibnlive.in.com/videos/245204/def ... -dark.html

hailinfreq · Post by **hailinfreq** » 03 Apr 2012 18:16

Former COAS Gen retd Shankar Roy Chowdhury "Defence Ministry kept all Army chiefs in the dark"

I am somewhat shocked ... Sorry for the noob question:
Even if they did not negotiate the prize, by the size of the deals, the tatra deals must have been at least a line item in most budgets. Ditto for the cost of spares. How would army chiefs be "kept in the dark" of the costs? Are some acquisitions not in the budget?

nelson · Post by **nelson** » 03 Apr 2012 19:19

At least in the Army, what the retd General says would have been the case, when he was COAS and before. The budget holders for capital acquisition were entirely in MoD till delegation took place in 2006 onwards. And for everyone's information procurement of spares and stores for air-crafts, naval vessels, vehicles and weapon systems fall under the Capital heads of defence outlay and not Revenue budget as discussed earlier in this forum. For more information please visit...
http://www.cgda.nic.in
(site is under reconstruction and some links may not work as desired)

But, IMHO, the General need not have gone out on a limb to extend the circumstances and offer broad protection to some of his illustrious successors. That would be tough to defend.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 03 Apr 2012 20:23

^^^
And some one was saying that acquisitions are primarily driven by IA.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 03 Apr 2012 21:15

Philip, Is there ever a good or right time for the IA chief to reveal corruption? India is the only country with a folklore story of "Two men and a donkey"!
Moral of that story is a decison is criticised by everyone who are not even stake holders!

In case of INC/GOI elite they are steak eaters!

Its really amazing for Natwar Singh implicated in the UN Food for Oil scam in Iraq to point fingers.

Essentially he is saying that the soldiers should let the loot go on. And is critical of MMS for allowing the scam to be exposed.
That is his real beef.

Has the incisive genius thought that maybe MMS wants the country to know whats happening and is allowing the sunlight to seep into the dark corners of the government procurement scams?

peter · Post by **peter** » 03 Apr 2012 23:47

Jaybhatt wrote:Saint Anthony Assessed Very Perceptively

This should be of interest to BR colleagues. Those who think of Shri Anthony as the original saint, this may open their eyes. Or maybe not.

http://epaper.dnaindia.com/epapermain.a ... =2012-4-03

Thanks! I find this quote rather interesting from the paper in your link:

Arackaparambil Kurian Antony is described as St Antony by the media in Kerala. His friends in New Delhi call him Mr Clean. For the media in Kerala, army chief Gen Singh is the villain and Antony the Prince of Delhi.

What could be the reason for the entire press in Kerala calling General VKS a villain?

peter · Post by **peter** » 03 Apr 2012 23:48

ramana wrote:Philip, Is there ever a good or right time for the IA chief to reveal corruption? India is the only country with a folklore story of "Two men and a donkey"!
Moral of that story is a decison is criticised by everyone who are not even stake holders!

In case of INC/GOI elite they are steak eaters!

Its really amazing for Natwar Singh implicated in the UN Food for Oil scam in Iraq to point fingers.

Essentially he is saying that the soldiers should let the loot go on. And is critical of MMS for allowing the scam to be exposed.
That is his real beef.

Has the incisive genius thought that maybe MMS wants the country to know whats happening and is allowing the sunlight to seep into the dark corners of the government procurement scams?

Do you feel that people who have made up their minds are ever going to change their belief based on logic or reason?

Samay · Post by **Samay** » 04 Apr 2012 00:08

The article above clearly states that the likes of antony were funded by cia in kerala.

cant find anything special this so called saint has done for his country

anjan · Post by **anjan** » 04 Apr 2012 00:29

Philip wrote:Pl.Anjan,I too have my own opinions and respect those of others.I'm no spokesman for the Cong or UPA-2,far from it.I've always maintained that Gen.VKS is an honest man,but made mistakes due to poor judgement and I maintain that his media campaign,especially the style of it,was unneccessary.He was also naive about the assurances (not in writing) from his superiors.There were other methods which he could've used to equal effect.We can debate the issue endlessly.

I absolutely do no dispute your right to an opinion. I question the opinion itself. So please do expound on what you believe he should have done. Our corrupt brethren are brazen enough that this episode will not end the gravy train. So what should a future chief do? It's entirely relevant to this episode and if you're going to carry on saying "poor judgement", "should have done something else" etc, then it's proper to ask you to justify your statements.

The released details/ complaint about the Tatra bribe after the SC verdict on his DOB issue made it appear that it was because he lost his case that he had brought it up.Several upright senior retd. senior officers with unblemished reputations also felt that his judgement was poor and the tactics of his capaign showed the IA in very poor light.To put it in perspective,he allowed himself to be attacked as an ingrate,remember the "self before service" article,in truth, his campaign lacked finesse.

The DoB is frequently brought up. Why shouldn't he have the same constitutional recourse afforded to anyone else? Did it affect national security? Does the law believe that having made one complaint, any future complaint from the same person must be judged through those lenses rather than on it's own merits?

"upright officers" rendering judgement is meaningless. As many with as great reputations think he did right and he himself is an officer with a stellar reputation and great respect within the Army. So let us confine ourselves to the question of constitutional propriety rather than any nebulous concept of what someone "feels" or whatever. Although how anyone imagines getting your reputation torn to shreds in newspapers everyday for the sake of army preparedness and cleaner procurement is an example of "self before service" is beyond me. Does the constitution say anything about the Chief not being allowed to talk to the media? On Corruption? Is it only embarrassing things he can't talk about? So is he a professional who can only give out good news? Is that his mandate? He has made no personal attacks on any of his superiors. That might be classed as insubordination. That has not happened. So what is it that you believe he did that he should not do?

And 'finesse' is what he's showing here. A lesser man wouldn't be able to walk the rope of not directly accusing his superiors of acts of commission and omission while yet exposing the corrupt structure. Has he raised a stink? Yes. It is simply not possible to do anything against corruption and do so subtly. Ultimately a lot of money and threatened and people will always react in this manner. If you believe otherwise please do point to other high functionaries with restricted power exposing corruption and coming out looking all heroic and not being crucified.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 04 Apr 2012 01:02

Philip might be good intentioned but he is living in a utopian world when he expects this

He was also naive about the assurances (not in writing) from his superiors

No one in real world in those sort of positions will give you in writing.

As the IAS guy said it is really hard to imagine standing up to these crooks in such positions. The system comes back with a vengeance to anyone upsetting the gravy train

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 04 Apr 2012 03:25

india today continues its relentless character assasination of VKS

found coule of more souls who were told to go out and do a hit

as if an army chief is MLA or MP to dole out largesse. There seems to be no depth to which India today will plummet!!

It has assigned another set of kids to write up saying how VKS has neglected his village as if he is a MP or MLA who can distribute largesse.
There is also a tinge of resentment. Villagers think the Army chief did not do enough for this otherwise undistinguished Haryana village, eight kilometers from Bhiwani district.

"We have heard something (about the controversy) but do not know the details," says his cousin Narender Singh, disinterestedly. They are more concerned about the number of Bapora boys he took into the Army.

"He managed to get only some of the village boys into the Army; only the fit ones. There are many more who wanted to join the Army but got no help," he adds. The village has a population of over 14,000 persons

Read more at: http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/army ... 82908.html

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 04 Apr 2012 03:42

Surya wrote:india today continues its relentless character assasination of VKS
"He managed to get only some of the village boys into the Army; only the fit ones. There are many more who wanted to join the Army but got no help," he adds. The village has a population of over 14,000 persons
Read more at: http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/army ... 82908.html

everyone has a loser cousin.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 04 Apr 2012 03:51

I am actually surprised that the cretins at IT let that out there. If anything it shows that he will not use his influence.
maybe it was newbie hitman - not yet trained .....

member_22539 · Post by **member_22539** » 04 Apr 2012 05:51

peter wrote:
Jaybhatt wrote:Saint Anthony Assessed Very Perceptively

This should be of interest to BR colleagues. Those who think of Shri Anthony as the original saint, this may open their eyes. Or maybe not.

http://epaper.dnaindia.com/epapermain.a ... =2012-4-03
Thanks! I find this quote rather interesting from the paper in your link:
Arackaparambil Kurian Antony is described as St Antony by the media in Kerala. His friends in New Delhi call him Mr Clean. For the media in Kerala, army chief Gen Singh is the villain and Antony the Prince of Delhi.
What could be the reason for the entire press in Kerala calling General VKS a villain?

Man this is truly funny, haven't these DDM heard about the commie party in Kerala. A substantial part of the media is controlled by this commie filth, who would love nothing more than demolish the so called "St. Antony's" clean image. The DDM gets dumber and dumber with each passing day in our country.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 04 Apr 2012 05:57

The January night Raisina Hill was spooked: Two key Army units moved towards Delhi without notifying Govt

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 04 Apr 2012 06:09

nothing like a good fat lie about a potential coup leaked by our babus to keep them as lords of the universe

sure a Delhi cop is going to stop a mech unit at a checkpoint

Nikhil T · Post by **Nikhil T** » 04 Apr 2012 06:10

^^^ Thank you for posting this article. Eye-opening and also, very well written for a change. I shudder to think how IndiaToday or Suman Sharma would've spun this.

Surya wrote:nothing like a good fat lie about a potential coup leaked by our babus to keep them as lords of the universe

sure a Delhi cop is going to stop a mech unit at a checkpoint

Don't know about the leak, but I know from experience that GT Road entrance into Delhi from Karnal side at Sonepat-Delhi border and the Bahadurgarh entrance from Rohtak side can be easily clogged if the cops start flagging down a few cars. The report didn't claim that the cops were going to stop the Army.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 04 Apr 2012 07:11

abhishek_sharma wrote:The January night Raisina Hill was spooked: Two key Army units moved towards Delhi without notifying Govt

The Indian Army scares enemies of the people, both internal and external.

member_22539 · Post by **member_22539** » 04 Apr 2012 07:21

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 04 Apr 2012 07:26

Don't know about the leak, but I know from experience that GT Road entrance into Delhi from Karnal side at Sonepat-Delhi border and the Bahadurgarh entrance from Rohtak side can be easily clogged if the cops start flagging down a few cars. The report didn't claim that the cops were going to stop the Army.

fair enough

and it can be unclogged with a couple of rounds fired in the air.

anyway we are too large and messy for a coup.

anjan · Post by **anjan** » 04 Apr 2012 07:27

The story says more about our netas and babus than it does about the Army. Units planning a coup don't go back when they're politely asked.

Edit: And that "additional checks in place" is BS. If an Army Commander really decided to go rogue and could convince his subordinate commanders, then no power, save another Army Commander or a Divine act, is going to stop him. The reason why we don't have coups is simply because you couldn't find the necessary Army, Div and battalion commanders who'd actually want to do it. As a CBM for the neta/babu log, I propose we disband the Army.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 04 Apr 2012 07:29

or wait for clogged roads to clear up

the bullcrap story of Bluestar mutiny is ironical

considering it was other army units that intercepted the mutineers.

What turds run this country!!

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 04 Apr 2012 07:31

anjan wrote:The story says more about our netas and babus than it does about the Army. Units planning a coup don't go back when they're politely asked.

Shekhar Gupta's hit job on Indian defence forces