All threads that are locked or marked for deletion will be moved to this forum. The topics will be cleared from this archive on the 1st and 16th of each month.
I see visions of draja, apatel and other wild eyed loyalist courtiers forming the 1st Queens Hussar's recon brigade, hiding in the bushes along the highways reporting back to "high command" over cellphones as emergency helicopter is organized on the lawns of 10 janpath to fly out certain VVIPs to a italian LHD parked off the mumbai coast, periodically taking time off to wipe their soiled rear ends.
meantime in lutyens delhi, all remaining retainers forming the people's militia for revolutionary socialist democratic congressi front, armed with INC flags , sticks and pitchforks defending each roundabout bitterly to save their leaders.
The reason the UPA govt may have gotten spooked is beause they know they f-ed up relations with the armed forces to such an extent. They know how they have ill treated our defence preparedness.
Surya,I have known of upright officers in the past,who in the real world (today) would've never signed on the dotted line as Gen.VKS did,never did,one sacrificing even his promotion prospects which would've led him to the top of the heap.I'm not here accusing Gen.VKS on what he did,he did it in good faith,blinked,but took out no "insurance".He also similarly gave his boss,(St.) Anthony only a verbal complaint about the 14 cr. bribe offer! Why didn't he also put it in writing when such an outrageous offer was made to him? AKA would've been forced to take immediate action.There is perhaps something more in the conversation between the two that we are unaware of.Perhaps Gen.VKS also wanted to see the reaction from "The Saint" before taking further course of action,whether "The Saint" was already in the know of matters!
Coming to the media features on the whole affair. While the cover titles IT-"Gen.Singh's War on India",Outlook-"Disgrace" (condemning both Gen.VKS and AKA),the Week-"Gen.VKS,shooting from the hip",are sensational,they need to sell copies after all,one must read the fine print inside the articles to get a broader picture.Let me give for the benefit of those abroad without access to the issues,a better picture of the debate and accusations.
IT (Sandeep U):
1.Condemns Gen.Singh for plotting his act of "revenge" after the Feb.10th SC verdict.
2.Says he revealed the existence of the IFF (top secret unit operating under RAW with Tibetan guerillas) which the GOI had earlier denied,that too when the Chinese head honcho was in India.
3.Deny the prospects of his successors who are against him,by instigating reports/actions against them but the real target is (St.) Anthony!
4."The Saint",says IT, is unconvincing for his inaction when Gen.VKS informed him about the alleged bribe offer.Though AKA claims that the general didn't want to pursue the matter,it was "his to take".
BJP leader Jaswant Singh is livid that the general didn't arrest TS on the spot,He says that a precedent was made with the case of Lt.Gen.Avadesh Prakash in the Sukna land scam (retd in 2010,dismissed in 2011,stripped of rank,etc.).
5.The chief's secret letter to the PM.Implication that "corruption and inactivity" had eaten into defence preparedness.Target AKA.
6."Astonishing virtual revolt",indicates that the "govt. has proved itself totally inept at handling a major crisis....The weakness of the govt. has eroded its moral authority;it is impotent before an army chief on the rampage."
7.Separate box report (MG Radhakrishnan) on "Marked Anthony".His inability to take tough decisions harks back to his days as CM.tenure had major corruption scandals,sex scandals,communal carnage.AKA did nothing,failed to take tough action against the accused.When he was Civil Supplies minister,he resigned when his min. was involved in the sugar import scam,evidence ofhim being a "quitter".He should've booked the crooks instead of leaving in a huff .
Says "the Saint's" ability to "float" above the chaos and corruption in his ministry may have earned him a reputation for personal integrity,but he lacked the "gravitas to transform the ministry".The label of inactivity during his 6 yr. tenure will be his legacy.
Lt.Gen Tejinder Singh:Chief recommended me to the NSA.says he was on a "good wicket" with the chief.Did not offer a bribe,wasn't a rep for the companies mentioned,just had tea with him-a 15 min meeting,"I'm not his bum chum"!
Maj-Gen Surjit Singh retd.: (fine words about the gen.who has got into an unfortunate situation.Says his age matter should've been settled long ago,but he shouldn't have made it an issue,"no matter who you are").Complete breakdown between services and govt. "Civilian control shouldn't become civilian dictatorship". Unfair to sack him as was done with Adm.Bhagwat.Recommends sending him on leave for 30 days.De-stress the situ.Both govt. and Gen.VKS "must no more than ever exercise equanimity and act sagaciously".
ramana wrote:The babus knew they were doing wrong things and cooked up this story.
Wonder if this is also CT!!!!
No sir. It is a story of preemptive nature. If VKS release more, they will use this story to put him behind bars. What a fall for IE.
Added later:
See their obsessions with MI
Shishir Gupta @sisir_gupta
Govt knew abt the so-called coup story two months ago as it was floated by a disgruntled MI off who had been posted out of Delhi. Hysterical
Last edited by Muppalla on 04 Apr 2012 08:52, edited 1 time in total.
anjan wrote:The story says more about our netas and babus than it does about the Army. Units planning a coup don't go back when they're politely asked.
I see a pattern here.
first
Allegations of spooking RM's office didn't work.
then
Allegations of leaking TOPSEC letter to PM didn't work.
now
Allegations of a coup.
what next,
Allegations of domestic abuse?
^^ Eerily similar to how reporting used to be against NaMo from 2002 till around 2010-11 when the DDM finally realised that these kind of media trash was proving counter-productive and magically such reports stopped?
Maybe the same will happen with VKS till the futility of this campaign becomes apparent to the powers-that-be
AFSPA, Hafiz Saeed, Zadari's visit, interlocutors and pre 1953 talk, SES fiasco, taliban talks in qatar, Siachen negotiations, etc together seems fishy. Perhaps the gov may be thinking of a pre 1953 settlement to the kashmir conflict. this could also be a reason for the shadow boxing between Army and GoI. Then again would GoI try it considering the border conflict with China and it's increasing presence in PoK?
sum wrote:^^ Eerily similar to how reporting used to be against NaMo from 2002 till around 2010-11 when the DDM finally realised that these kind of media trash was proving counter-productive and magically such reports stopped?
Maybe the same will happen with VKS till the futility of this campaign becomes apparent to the powers-that-be
I've been thinking the exact same thing for several days now.
I clearly remember reading that there is a SOP in place when it comes to movement of troops into Delhi - no size able movement of troops can happen into Delhi w/o the express consent of MOD. Even the COAS cannot order this w/o informing the MOD. Seems to have been put in place sometime in mid-80s.
Without questioning the bonafides of the Defence Secretary who has issued this statement (thereby doing the proper and honourable thing), I would also like him to institute inquiries within the MOD to find out if some other babus started this canard. Also, this Shekhar Gupta fellow and his cohorts in the Indian Express must be grilled about the whole affair.
Hacks like Gupta never do anything without motives. Who induced them to undertake this caper ? They don't have the cojones to undertake an exercise like this on their own.
rohitvats wrote:I clearly remember reading that there is a SOP in place when it comes to movement of troops into Delhi - no size able movement of troops can happen into Delhi w/o the express consent of MOD. Even the COAS cannot order this w/o informing the MOD. Seems to have been put in place sometime in mid-80s.
I may be wrong but this rule was instituted earlier in 1962 or 1963 when Gen. J.N. Chaudhuri was COAS and Nehru the PM. Some babus brought it to the attention of Nehru that some army units were heading towards Delhi. Although Gen. Chaudhuri and the AHQ explained the situation immediately and to Nehru's satisfaction, the rule of prior information to MOD, in case large army units are moved to Delhi, was instituted.
The entire history of this rule will be buried deep in some file in the MOD.
Now this explains why some in our political establishment help lumpen elements and don't take modernization of defences fast. They are afraid of a strong army and with good reputation unlike theirs. Guess if you are power you are always wondering who is going to snatch it from you.
According to top sources, the 50 Independent Para Brigade played out two different scenarios depicting the need for a quick operation almost akin to the situations that obtained in Maldives [ Images ] last month and the consequences of the mutiny by the Bangladesh Rifles (now Border Guards, Bangladesh) two years ago.
During the exercise, elements of the brigade travelled by road from Agra to Delhi [ Images ] to link up with the Indian Air Force base at Hindon on the outskirts of the capital, since the recently acquired medium lift transport aircraft, the C-130 Js are stationed there.
According to the latest plans worked out between the Army and the Air Force, these aircraft are to be used for any such out of area contingencies since they have the range and capability to fly more troops and equipment.
Sources involved in the operation told rediff.com that during the exercise, several unforeseen complications in the smooth execution of the well laid out SOPs (Standard Operating Procedures) were noticed.
Havildar Gupta instructed by Col MM Singh has fired a couple of smoke bombs
stop the absence of HE ammo most worrying stop The incompetent 2ic, Major
Antony, still hasn't been able to procure any ammo stop Batuni Kachua still
firmly ensconced in his bill stop Platoon Cdrs, Lt KC Singh and Parathasathy
to report to CO with more innovative ideas stop
Today's Express - all an orchestrated attempt to keep attention away from
the Statuary Complaint! Remember the cries of panic in the Bhagwat case:
Ships have been launched up the Jamuna!
A segment of the print and electronic media, who are supposed to be the sentinels for probity, honesty and integrity in public life have been repeatedly attacking the Institutional Integrity of the Indian Army by repeatedly launching attacks on the COAS. This has dangerous and unpredictable consequences and should not be allowed to pass. It cannot be tolerated by our people and our nation.
Enough is enough! Things have gone too far and it is time people are told of the truth as it stands. We - Admiral Vishnu Bhagwat, M.G. Devasahayam and Kunal Verma - therefore challenge the four media-men spearheading the campaign against General VK Singh - Arun Purie, Karan Thapar, Sandeep Unnithan and Raj Chengappa - for a nation wide TV debate on any of the Channels of their choice.
-- Admiral Vishnu Bhagwat
Former Chief of Naval Staff
This statement was released at 1100 hrs yesterday to all channels. Not one of them reprted it!
Individual corresspondents have reverted saying Aroon Purie's name having figured, they've been advised to show restraint!
There is a lot going on than what meets the eye. The relationship between the government and military is on the rocks. Absolutely no trust on the only person allowed to carry lethal weapons can only mean an impending disaster. No one screws around with the Armed forces.
MoS, Pallam Raju has said the news report is an anti-national act.
Natural fall out of that should be the arrest of Shekhar Gupta, Ritu Sarin and Parnab Dhal Samanta.
The behavior of the media gives new meaning to "many lives, many masters". It seems there are multiple power centers and each is using the episode to further his/her own gains. While the political cabal may well have been reigned in, the same cannot be said about the babus - they are a power center answerable only to themselves. The trotting out of BJ - who was a NSA in NDA regime - and now the article in IE are all part of the same game plan. Powers that be are hitting back at VKS for stepping out of line.
The media is all afire. Though BRF has dismissed the piece of crap (IE report) for what it is, without too much discussion, the media is all over the place with it.
Disgusting. Totally disgusting. And what is worse, is that this report has probably been planted by motivated elements in either the bureaucracy, or disgruntled elements in the Army. UPA seems totally unable to control its public servants.
burkha has been tweeting sensibly about this issue - coup is unthinkable, etc. (atleast a few hours ago anyway)
the mediots are mijjile maalishing as usual thinking this is cool cutting edge journalism, just goes to show the low IQ levels prevalent in the industry
Indian Media is just taught wrong fundamentals right from their Bachelors program. Their syllabus is all Left centric books to fight for the weak and to target the strong. This time the strong one is the Army. If Advani or NaMo had been in a yatra they would have targeted them. Army is just at the wrong place at wrong time.
I hope the Army PR takes the undytv,shakeitdaddy to task.
It is a sad state of affair. Even the Army chief bribe news needed different focus, but, people went after Defence Minister and real issue is forgotten. The Army spying on MoD, Chiefs DoB etc have been disinformation and blown out of proportion respectively. IMHO!
chackojoseph wrote:It is a sad state of affair. Even the Army chief bribe news needed different focus, but, people went after Defence Minister and real issue is forgotten. The Army spying on MoD, Chiefs DoB etc have been disinformation and blown out of proportion respectively. IMHO!
Its always been like this, even in Tehlka , even though the system of bribes in MOD was well before George Fernandes time, every went after him even though the allegations by the drunken Jain guy was totally baseless and even under UPA-1 and 2 CBI has found nothing and wanted to close the case. only due to political reasons the CBI recently opened the case again.
What is good for the goose is good for the Gander. Why should A.K.A be treated different or is it time CPI(M), UPA and media apoligise for such slander done to George Fernandes?
In fact per recent A.K>A admissions the case against A.K.A is far more stronger than it was against George Fernandes.
A report , already published in Rediff on 13th March and probably no one noticed anything out of the way , was twisted out of shape to give devious meaning to the whole exercise. What Army has done to deserve such treatment from Shekhar Gupta? And what has happened to Indian Express publishing such a piece of crap. This is nothing but another one in a long series of crappy hit jobs by eminent journalists. Wonder whose salt have they eaten to back stab the country. If Army wanted Coup, who could have stop it?
Tatra a.s. of the Czech Republic on Wednesday dismissed allegations that it was involved in corruption in supply of its vehicles to Army and said it has no direct or indirect relationship with Indian Army or any of its representatives.
The company said it will seek an explanation from Vectra chairman Ravi Rishi regarding the CBI’s probe against him in connection with alleged corruption in the supply of trucks.
It also stated that neither Mr. Rishi nor his investment company Vectra, control or have controlled — directly or indirectly — Tatra a.s.
“The British company Vectra Limited is a minority stakeholder in Tatra holdings and in principle holds one of the four votes. Nonetheless, Tatra will request from Mr. Rishi and Vectra Limited an explanation of the information about any initiated investigation of him and Vectra Ltd by Indian Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI) as it relates to sales of products branded with the ‘Tatra’ name.
“Otherwise, Tatra a.s has no responsibility for action taken or claims made by unrelated third parties with whom it has no relationships,” it said in the statement.
It said Tatra a.s. supplies for India various truck components that make up approximately 30 to 35 per cent of a complete vehicle.
“The remaining components are made or supplied by other manufacturers or by BEML, an Indian government-controlled company that also assembles the Tatra branded vehicles and then sells and delivers them to customers within India under license agreement for Tatra a.s.,” it said.
On March 13, three weeks before The Indian Express published its front page story today on mysterious army movements, Rediff.com published the story!
India's [ Images ] elite Parachute Brigade, based in Agra [ Images ], has of late practised two quick manoeuvres designed to test its readiness for quick armed intervention in India's immediate neighbourhood.
According to top sources, the 50 Independent Para Brigade played out two different scenarios depicting the need for a quick operation almost akin to the situations that obtained in Maldives [ Images ] last month and the consequences of the mutiny by the Bangladesh Rifles (now Border Guards, Bangladesh) two years ago.
During the exercise, elements of the brigade travelled by road from Agra to Delhi [ Images ] to link up with the Indian Air Force base at Hindon on the outskirts of the capital, since the recently acquired medium lift transport aircraft, the C-130 Js are stationed there.
According to the latest plans worked out between the Army and the Air Force, these aircraft are to be used for any such out of area contingencies since they have the range and capability to fly more troops and equipment.
Sources involved in the operation told rediff.com that during the exercise, several unforeseen complications in the smooth execution of the well laid out SOPs (Standard Operating Procedures) were noticed.
For instance, the thick blanket of fog that envelops North India in the winter months, slowed down the advance of troops from Agra to Delhi. Elements of the Para Brigade tasked to pick up vital equipment and weapons (read missiles and special ammunition) from a well-concealed depot in Bharatpur [ Images ] (near Agra but in Rajasthan [ Images ]) lost a lot of time in negotiating traffic and fog on the narrow roads in the area.
So, instead of the estimated three hours that the Parachute Brigade had given itself for the journey between Agra and actual take off from Hindon, troops took almost four-and-a-half hours, a 90-minute delay that could prove to be expensive in real-life situation.
Following the deficiencies noticed during the conduct of the exercise, the Army HQ has taken a decision to establish a dedicated arms and ammunition storage facility for the special equipment to be co-located with the Parachute Brigade at Agra.
Another fallout of the Para Brigade's exercise was the realisation that thick, unrelenting fog in North India could actually create an unforeseen obstacle for the movement of India's mechanised forces -- most of India's armour strength is located in the north Indian states -- in case they need to mobilise at short notice. So, some elements of armoured forces were also moved around in winter months to understand real-time problems they may encounter because of both fog and traffic.
And in the tradition of its commitment to journalism of courage and the readers' right to know, it will continue its investigation into the events of January 16-17 and the questions these raise.
Without completing investigation how could he come to any conclusion. Now even DS, RM and PM have rubbished it, not that it means much. All seems to be part of salsa or tango sequence to titilate readers and demoralise and demean Army. Sad that IE stooped so low.
Tatra a.s. of the Czech Republic on Wednesday dismissed allegations that it was involved in corruption in supply of its vehicles to Army and said it has no direct or indirect relationship with Indian Army or any of its representatives.
The company said it will seek an explanation from Vectra chairman Ravi Rishi regarding the CBI’s probe against him in connection with alleged corruption in the supply of trucks.
It also stated that neither Mr. Rishi nor his investment company Vectra, control or have controlled — directly or indirectly — Tatra a.s.
“The British company Vectra Limited is a minority stakeholder in Tatra holdings and in principle holds one of the four votes. Nonetheless, Tatra will request from Mr. Rishi and Vectra Limited an explanation of the information about any initiated investigation of him and Vectra Ltd by Indian Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI) as it relates to sales of products branded with the ‘Tatra’ name.
“Otherwise, Tatra a.s has no responsibility for action taken or claims made by unrelated third parties with whom it has no relationships,” it said in the statement.
It said Tatra a.s. supplies for India various truck components that make up approximately 30 to 35 per cent of a complete vehicle.
“The remaining components are made or supplied by other manufacturers or by BEML, an Indian government-controlled company that also assembles the Tatra branded vehicles and then sells and delivers them to customers within India under license agreement for Tatra a.s.,” it said.
My View:
Tatra brand name is being used by Vectra, which states that Tatra (Sipox) 'acts as a subsidiary' of Tatra As. Since he uses Tatra brand name, it must be true. Tatra has not stated an objection to it.
Vectra has no major stake in Tatra as stated above, but the Czech investigation states "The complaint alleges that Rishi misused his position in the board of Tatra Czech [the original equipment manufacturer (OEM) of Tatra trucks] to enable Tatra Sipox (UK) Ltd, a company Rishi’s Vectra Group incorporated in 1994 and now owns, to buy knock down trucks from Tatra Czech at below production cost." Rishi is at supervisory board (as per DNA). This seems to be connecting.
BEML buys 35% of the components from Tatra. How? Another probable proof that Sipox is Tatra subsidiary. Then it states contrary that BEML has license agreement with Tatra AS. (through Sipox)
(BEML claims 60% Indian make, so, there is a 5% component which comes from outside/other manufacturers. it could also mean that this is a job work incase the job has to be tailor made. )
Added later: There could be a hole in Tatra or vectra claims on shares
a) tatra says "one in four Votes"
b) Vectra says "Vectra owns 100% of Tatra Slovakia and nearly 66% of Tatra Czech Republic, claims he. "The undercarriage [for Tatra trucks] is made in Slovakia. Engines, cabin etc are made in the Czech Republic," he says of the vehicle that is in the eye of a storm in India.
too good for words.
(through Sipox)