Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2012

saip · Post by **saip** » 06 Apr 2012 00:01

Pakistan – Internet Subscribers : 531,787 -- Users : 30,943,124
India – ……Internet Subscribers : 10,990,000 – Users : 87,983,101

I was looking at the comments in the IT link above. As per Wiki, Pakistan has 60 piglets per connection but India has only 8 humans per connection!

Rohit_K · Post by **Rohit_K** » 06 Apr 2012 01:28

US imposes restrictions on PIA

KARACHI: The United States has imposed restrictions on PIA flights. According to the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) after April 22 prior to arriving in the US, all passengers and luggage on board PIA aircrafts will be subjected to another security check at the Manchester airport.

PIA flies to New York via Manchester three times a week. The average stop over time in Manchester is one and a half hour, but after the new restrictions this will be increased to between six and seven hours. The new restrictions will not only create problems for PIA passengers but also raise costs for the national flag carrier.

According to PIA officials, the new restrictions may completely throw the airlines flight schedule to the US in disarray. Observers believe that the new restrictions might be because of Pakistan closure of the Nato supply route.

saip · Post by **saip** » 06 Apr 2012 01:38

So they still cannot fly direct to US from Pakiland. When they got the new 777 ER, courtesy US govt, they were crowing that they got them ahead of AirIndia, and they will fly direct to US except US had other ideas.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 06 Apr 2012 03:40

Aap Ki Baat Episode
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4B8KHn1 ... r_embedded

Pagal Seh Gal and Pagal Ki Gaal!!
Resumption of Drone attacks sign of Normal US-Munna relation.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 06 Apr 2012 03:42

Resumption of Drone attacks sign of Normal US-Munna relation.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 06 Apr 2012 03:47

Yes as baksheesh/price is settled.

We need to understand that TSP is like a khota. And if US doesn't visit means their sustenanace is at risk. So drone attacks resumption means price is agreed and it will be business as usual.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 06 Apr 2012 03:58

Kuffar wale Din Beete re Bhaya, Poaqslam Aayo reh, Pakistan mei purity layo reh

Pak man arrested for blasphemy

A Shia man in Pakistan's Punjab province has been arrested under the controversial blasphemy law for allegedly using foul language against three Caliphs or companions of Prophet Mohammed, a charge denied by him.Iftikhar Ali was arrested in Okara district, about 100 km from Lahore following a complaint from a local resident. If found guilty, he could face life imprisonment."Ali was arrested for using foul language against the three Caliphs of Islam," said a senior police official of the district.The arrested man subsequently denied the charge."Since no one here dares to raise his voice against the controversial blasphemy law, it is being used to exploit minority communities or the Shia sect," said a minority legislator of the Punjab Assembly, who refused to be named because of fears of being targeted by extremists.The legislator told PTI that none of his colleagues in the assembly is ready to talk on issues affecting minority communities or the persecution of minorities through the misuse of the blasphemy law.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 06 Apr 2012 04:07

Pakistan: Pakistani schoolbooks full of contempt and bigotry against Christians, Hindus and Sikhs

http://www.speroforum.com/a/ARVPFQTRSH5 ... -and-Sikhs

The report shows that thousands of non-Muslim students are "forced" to study Islam and elements of the Muslim religion, for fear of discrimination. Among these, the decision taken by the Parliament of Punjab - one of the provinces of Pakistan - and approved "unanimously" that makes the study of the Koran mandatory. And non-Muslims "are not offered a viable alternative." At the same time, even in subjects like social sciences and linguistics about 20% of the content is linked to Islam. Again: the non-Muslim students are given the extra bonus of 20 points, reserved to those who deepen Islamic studies.Lahore (AsiaNews) - School textbooks that promote religious fanaticism, discriminate against minorities and trigger religious conflicts: Pakistani schools are - once again - the object of attention and study of Catholic NCJP activists who, in a detailed report, have examined the basic elements of discrimination of sectarian origins. In the report titled " Fanatic Literacy or Education," the National Commission for Justice and Peace Commission of the Catholic Church invites a rethink of school curricula, so that even Christians, Hindus, Sikhs and those belonging to minorities in Pakistan can deepen the study of their religion. Currently they are obliged to learn the basics of Islam, as practiced in some areas of the country, including Punjab.
The report shows that thousands of non-Muslim students are "forced" to study Islam and elements of the Muslim religion, for fear of discrimination. Among these, the decision taken by the Parliament of Punjab - one of the provinces of Pakistan - and approved "unanimously" that makes the study of the Koran mandatory. And non-Muslims "are not offered a viable alternative." At the same time, even in subjects like social sciences and linguistics about 20% of the content is linked to Islam. Again: the non-Muslim students are given the extra bonus of 20 points, reserved to those who deepen Islamic studies.

AsiaNews has long stressed the importance of education as a factor of redemption and growth for Pakistan, and even devoted a thorough dossier to schooling and education (see, Education can stop the Taliban in Pakistan). Peter Jacob, NCJP executive secretary, explains that "education and educational policy in Pakistan" are among the sectors in which sectarian nature of discrimination and violations of basic human rights clearly emerge. In addition there is a chronic "lack of initiatives" and complications caused by "widespread corruption and inefficiency."

In the study prepared by Christian activists they recall article 20 of the Constitution, which guarantees religious freedom, and article 22 that states that " no person attending any educational institution shall be required to receive religious instruction, or take part in any religious ceremony, or attend religious worship, if such instruction, ceremony or worship relates to a religion other than his own". However, the school and education system in general seem to "forget" these two fundamental laws of the Charter of the State, while diligently applying Article 31, under which "shall be binding upon the study of Islam and the Koran" so that - add Christian activists - there are no substantial differences between public institutions and the madrassas, or Islamic schools.Finally, the report says that religions other than Islam are viewed "with contempt and prejudice." Faced with a situation that is becoming increasingly critical, Justice and Peace calls for a substantial change in the educational policy and the opportunity for Hindus, Christians, Sikhs and students of other religions to deepen the knowledge of their own faith or, alternatively, have access to ethics and civic education.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 06 Apr 2012 04:44

Rohit_K wrote:US imposes restrictions on PIA

Blue glove chacha is waiting:

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 06 Apr 2012 06:36

surinder wrote:
shiv wrote: Isn't it curious that ten times as much trouble occurs in Karachi and in Peshawar/Quetta. But the army never gets called in? Why?
Interesting.

Actually, Shiv, could you expand on that?

You probably may think that it as an obvious common knowledge, but I don't totally get it.

This "curious" fact has struck me time and again, and I can reach more than one "off the cuff" conclusion, but I keep wondering which explanation is correct.

Let me start with examples from other countries. India, for example started with a bureaucracy/chain of command similar to that of Pakistan. Supposing there are riots in a city or (it can never happen) ten Martians with guns attack a city. The "first responders" are the local police. Maybe a special riot police get called in next. But finally, to bring in law and order you get the army and the imposition of Section 144 (curfew) in the area. In fact IIRC that Gilgit news actually mentioned section 144 which is exactly the same number used in India. If there is massive violence in India the army goes on standby for quick intervention of the civil authorities need their help. Despite the recent bullshit in the media the Indian armed forces are part of the government and are not a separate entity.

If you look at the US - most of the time the police handle things. The last time the army was called out was probably after hurricane Katrina.Maybe it was only in the anti-Vietnam riots of the 70s that they were called out earlier. The armed forces get called in when things get out of hand and require either the fire power or the engineering/transport skills of the armed forces.

Why does the army never get called out in Peshawar, Quetta or Karachi despite almost continuous violence leading to literally hundreds of deaths? One excuse for not calling the army would be to say "Oh the police are able to handle this". But if the police were able to handle it the violence should stop no?

Clearly the army is doing something different in Pakistan and I wonder why the difference? You see, even if the Pakistan army does not care for or support the civil administration ( as is supposed to be the case in Pakistan) surely the army should be interested in law an order. Even for people in the army, law and order issues affect the lives of their own kith and kin and the "fabric" of the nation. So the army technically has a stake in the well being of the entire country. So what is the game that the Paki army is playing?

The Pakistan army has a heavy and open presence in islamabad. The army responded with force when the Lal Masjid tamasha started. But the Paki army leaves Quetta, Peshawar and Karachi untouched.

Is this because the army sees itself as 'Punjabi" with no stake in other areas?
Is it because the army is waiting for things to get so bad that they can come in with force and tell the civilians that they are so good at bringing law and order?
Is it because the army actually does not wield the influence required in some areas and will find itself in an unwinnable civil war?

I would be interested in figuring out the exact issues - it could be a combination of all of the above.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 06 Apr 2012 06:36

No compromise on Kashmir: Pak on Zardari visit

Just neighbours at lunch: Sanjaya Baru

Drilling down on the Iran-Pakistan pipeline

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 06 Apr 2012 06:39

Jhujar wrote:Aap Ki Baat Episode
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4B8KHn1 ... r_embedded

Pagal Seh Gal and Pagal Ki Gaal!!
Resumption of Drone attacks sign of Normal US-Munna relation.

You may be right.

The questions that are asked here are

1. Do the Pakistanis know that drone attacks are occurring?
2. Does the US know where Hafiz Saeed is?

If the answer is "yes" to both, then relations are bad.

If the answer is "no" to both then it's back to normal

Tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies...

disha · Post by **disha** » 06 Apr 2012 07:01

shiv wrote:The Pakistan army has a heavy and open presence in islamabad. The army responded with force when the Lal Masjid tamasha started. But the Paki army leaves Quetta, Peshawar and Karachi untouched.

Is this because the army sees itself as 'Punjabi" with no stake in other areas?

Is it because the army is waiting for things to get so bad that they can come in with force and tell the civilians that they are so good at bringing law and order?

Is it because the army actually does not wield the influence required in some areas and will find itself in an unwinnable civil war?

I would be interested in figuring out the exact issues - it could be a combination of all of the above.

Searching on google, only 2007/2010 karachi riots are mentioned (and explored in great detail). Actually searching on google reveals two things:

1. All of the anal-ysts here are wrong. Pakistan is actually more peaceful than other countries, including USA or China and definitely better than India.

2. There are not many riots, just some inter-gang or intra-political rivalry or inter-ethnic rivalry spilling into public domain where people die unfortunately.

Since it is item #2., most likely outcome is that the government in power wants to sort out the issues within the gangs themselves (in true democracy) and why invite the army to complicate matters? It is like inviting the monkey in between a pig fight err cat fight. Also most of the rivalry is over land, wealth and wimmen (and goats). Otherwise it is Jihad., and waging Jihad is not riots.

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 06 Apr 2012 07:39

NATO is realizing the pakiness of the truck drivers:
Night vision goggles, anyone? We just got them from a NATO container

When strolling through a flea market in Karachi, one would not expect to come across new uniforms intended for North Atlantic Treaty Organisation (Nato) forces in Afghanistan. However, Mohammad Siddique, a shopkeeper in Jackson Bazaar, Kemari, claims not only to have such uniforms, but also new accessories like boots, socks, and knives in his possession.
Worried that the goods may be counterfeits? Siddique provides a “money back guarantee” to his customers in case they are not satisfied.
“US commando boots, safety shoes, army uniforms, glasses, knives, torches, tools, socks, beds and even night vision goggles are sold in Chaman and Peshawar,” says Siddique. Night vision goggles, especially, are considered a rarity for much of the Pakistani armed forces.
However, Siddique said that he does not display these items in his shop, as they are either stolen from Nato containers in Pakistan, or brought in from Afghanistan through the Chaman and Torkham borders.
...
...

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 06 Apr 2012 07:55

shiv wrote:........
The Pakistan army has a heavy and open presence in islamabad. The army responded with force when the Lal Masjid tamasha started. But the Paki army leaves Quetta, Peshawar and Karachi untouched.

Is this because the army sees itself as 'Punjabi" with no stake in other areas?

Is it because the army is waiting for things to get so bad that they can come in with force and tell the civilians that they are so good at bringing law and order?

Is it because the army actually does not wield the influence required in some areas and will find itself in an unwinnable civil war?

OR
because the army is in agreement with the way the violence unfolds -- anti-minority or minority against minority.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 06 Apr 2012 07:58

shiv wrote: Isn't it curious that ten times as much trouble occurs in Karachi and in Peshawar/Quetta. But the army never gets called in? Why?

surinder wrote: Interesting.

Actually, Shiv, could you expand on that?

You probably may think that it as an obvious common knowledge, but I don't totally get it.

shiv wrote: This "curious" fact has struck me time and again, and I can reach more than one "off the cuff" conclusion, but I keep wondering which explanation is correct.

Pakistan rangers have a permanent presence in Karachi: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan_R ... in_Karachi

They are *NOT* the equivalent of CRPF, they are the equivalent of Assam rifles. A detachment of Paki army "under" the interior ministry for protection in Karachi. These fellows have quite a colorful history. Search for "Karachi rangers" and you will get to see a stomach churning video of a fellow begging for mercy before being shot in the stomach. A BBC report about that is here http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13717106

These guys pretty much run the city, including supplying water. here is a (old) Dawn article

http://archives.dawn.com/2005/11/02/local5.htm

Rangers reduce water charges

KARACHI, Nov 1: The Rangers have revoked their earlier decision of adjusting tanker filling charges. The decision has been taken to prevent the tanker mafia from increasing rates of water tankers who were taking undue advantage of adjustment of filling charges.

Taking a prompt action against the owners of tankers who had increased the rates of tankers following some adjustments made by the rangers in the filling charges, an official of the Rangers said on Tuesday that keeping in view the difficulties of the consumers, the Rangers have restored the old filling charges so that commercial tankers could be made available at old rates.

When army is in, can their spooks be far behind? In fact it has been alleged that Haqiqi faction of MQM was split off from MQM to keep altaf in check by Military intelligence associated with Karachi rangers. Here is a dailywhines article about that:

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 2009_pg3_1

A rebel spook, currently running a human rights outfit for the “disappeared persons”, had once revealed that Haqiqi was used by the intelligence agencies to weaken the street power of Altaf Hussain. It had obviously not worked. In fact it had made permanent a dangerous urban split that the agencies could not have wanted had they known in advance what their policies would bring about.

There are stories of Military intelligence personnel being caught by MQM as revenge, tied to a chair and electric drills used on them. So now there is an uneasy truce between MQM and the TFTAs. Karachi is MQM territory, and they are quite jealous about protecting their popularity and street power (against the army and other political parties). Last time when the current Honorable Chief Justice of Pakistan tried to conduct a rally there this happened:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension ... achi_Riots

As soon as the CJP Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry's plane touched down in Karachi airport, The city erupted in violence, especially the famour Karachi road of 'Shahray-e-Faisal' was taken over by groups of armed mobs who fired indiscriminately at the people due to receive CJP. Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry had come to address the city bar association on the 50th anniversary of the establishment of the Pakistani Supreme Court.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 06 Apr 2012 08:07

Dont know how credible this is:
http://www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-News-1 ... -water-war

Pakistan and India have agreed in principle of a need to set up an independent office of the Indus Water Commission (IWC) comprising neutral experts from outside the South Asian region with an unblemished record and integrity to avert wars on water issues between the two neighbourly nuclear states.

The understanding was reached during a dialogue on strategic relations including water disputes under the track-II diplomacy held in New Delhi on March 28-30

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 06 Apr 2012 08:56

So Karachi is under Pak Ranger occupation/control!!!

Depend up on Pakis to disguise Army ops and pretend they are police ops.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 06 Apr 2012 08:58

ramana wrote:Anujan, Try to get the true history of LeT. I think it was created same time as AlQ. LeT was for India and AlQ was for other than India ie FSU. LeT was holding tank for Pakjabis and AlQ was for Arabs, Central Asians and other dregs.
When FSU collapsed the raisins for AlQ also collapsed. Hence it turned on its creators as it wasn't disbanded and de-militarized. After Op Parakaram LeT ops in India also got reduced. Again they turned on their creators. Again after mission failure the terrorists were not demobilized and de-militarized. Maybe hope was to retain them as hedge. But idle hands are devil's workshop.

So now figure out who the creators are?

TSPA is only midwife and wet nurse for these snakes.

Acharya wrote:LeT and Dawa was created in 1986 or so and not in 1990s.
This factual error is repeated to not show that LeT was product of the 80s Afghan jihad war. That war was supported by the US army and US agencies such as famous one.

There is extraordinary effort to rewrite the history of LeT afte 911.

We need to dig more. LeT is a rogue operation from the Afghan Mujhdeen times.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 06 Apr 2012 11:20

shiv wrote:I would be interested in figuring out the exact issues - it could be a combination of all of the above.

Shiv, there is a difference in Pakistan handling the issues in Karachi on the one hand and Peshawar & Quetta on the other.

The Karachi situation has been a very complex one as there are multiple forces operating simultaneously. Besides, Karachi also generated 70% of the revenues for the federal government and is the only port for Pakistan. Therefore, the use of the PA in Karachi has been selective. As Ms. Bhutto did in her second term, she did not try to stop the mayhem resulting from the factional fight among the MQM because she won either way. The six major dramatis personnae in Karachi are the Mohajirs, the Sindhis themselves, the Pashtuns, the jihadis, the mafia of various sorts and the Islamists like Jama'at-e-Islami and their madrasseh. Of course, there are Balochis and then the common target of all of them, the Punjabis. Each of the major groups fights the others at different times. When the Pashtuns are under attack, the ANP (Awami National Party) demands that the PA be deployed. When Altaf's MQM bleeds, he calls for army deployment which would be opposed by the PPP and the ANP. Ultimately, calling the Army for assistance is the prerogative of the State (or Provincial, in Pakistan's case) government. The Rangers, a semi-PA unit like the Frontier Corps, have been especially created for Karachi and the rest of Sind, and operates under Karachi-based V Corps. In Karachi, the PA had been deployed before during ZAB's time, or later when Zia-ul-Haq was ruling or when Nawaz Sharif came to power the first time around in the 90s. ZAB even sacked his COAS Gen. Gul Hasan Khan for refusing to spare troops to quell the language riots in Karachi in c. 1972. Of course, Bhutto then turned his attention to Balochistan and used the airforce to strafe that province. For his part, Gen. Zia-ul-Haq helped found the MQM to tackle the PPP. Even Ms. Bhutto, during her first term, tried to use the PA against MQM in Karachi but the Corps Commander, Asif Nawaz Janjua, refused to oblige. In early 90s, Nawaz Sharif was the blue eyed boy of the PA and they both colluded well as Nawaz became the PM. Both had a common goal of hitting at PPP and MQM as by that time MQM had fallen foul of the PA. They even set up military courts to try the cases of violence and Nawaz even introduced the Anti Terrorism Law with only Karachi in mind. In c. 1992, Nawaz deployed the PA (through the Rangers) to help the breakaway MQM faction (Haqiqi faction) and drive out Altaf Hussain to the UK. Operation Cleanup was a significant military operation during this time. Since then, Nawaz and the PA broke up and in his second term Nawaz did not show the same fervour with respect to Karachi. The book, 'Crossed Swords' by Shuja Nawaz, the brother of ex COAS Asif Janjua describes how the PA under his brother, who was then a Corps Commander, took action in Karachi. The Rangers have since then been effectively deployed in Karachi and Hyderabad (Sind) too. The Karachi University has a permanent detachment of the Rangers.

I would put the Quetta & Peshawar cases differently. Both these places have been virtually ceded to the Islamic Emirate, of which the PA is an important component. So, it has left the handling of the law & order situation to the local warlords, local and the Punjabi Taliban. They are dispensing quality justice there.

Rohit_K · Post by **Rohit_K** » 06 Apr 2012 11:46

Excellent post Sridhar. Minor error though. Karachi contributes about 25% to the federal government's coffers, not 70% or 68% as wrongly highlighted in the press or blogs. Many companies in Sindh and Punjab have head offices in Karachi and that's why it's share wrongly bumps upto 70% much like Bombay's.

Please see this graph which highlights contribution by state

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 06 Apr 2012 12:01

wiki tells me there are effectively 2 pakistan rangers, PR punjab and one for sindh.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mehran_Force

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 06 Apr 2012 13:38

ramana wrote:I think it was created same time as AlQ. LeT was for India and AlQ was for other than India ie FSU. LeT was holding tank for Pakjabis and AlQ was for Arabs, Central Asians and other dregs.

When FSU collapsed the raisins for AlQ also collapsed. Hence it turned on its creators as it wasn't disbanded and de-militarized. After Op Parakaram LeT ops in India also got reduced. Again they turned on their creators. Again after mission failure the terrorists were not demobilized and de-militarized. Maybe hope was to retain them as hedge. But idle hands are devil's workshop.

There is a lot of circumstantial evidence to what Ramana says.

Hafeez Sayeed was a co-founder, along with Abdullah Azzam, of Maktab-al-Khidmat (Office of Service) in Peshawar in circa 1979 to help the Arab jihadis. After Azzam's assassination on Nov. 24, 1989, variously attributed to Israeli Mossad or even the mujahideen faction, the Maktab became Jama'at-ud-Dawah.

In parallel, Hafeez Sayeed had started, along with Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi, Markaz-daw’a-wal-Irshad (MDI) in Muridke in 1986. MDI was started with the twin objectives of peaceful activities (such as running charities and prosletyzation) and Islamist jihad. In 1987, the deaths of the Emirs of two other Ahl-e-Hadith organizations (Allama Ehsan Elahi Zaheer of Jama’at-Ahl-e-Hadith and Jamil al-Rehman of Jamaat al-Dawa al-Quran wal-Suna) enabled the absorption of the members of these two organizations swelling thereby the strength of MDI.

In 1990, LeT was launched officially by MDI as its militant wing with Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi as its commander while Prof. Hafeez Sayeed remained in overall charge of the organization.

After the 1992 Babri mosque destruction, LeT sent Azzam Cheema to India to set up Tanzeem Islahul Muslimeen which much later became Indian Mujahideen.

Sudip · Post by **Sudip** » 06 Apr 2012 13:41

Sudip · Post by **Sudip** » 06 Apr 2012 13:49

Rajdeep · Post by **Rajdeep** » 06 Apr 2012 14:29

Swamy having a go at Hamid Ullu.

PS - The ability of these guys to lie through their teeth is what has helped these snakes survive.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 06 Apr 2012 15:08

ArmenT wrote:NATO is realizing the pakiness of the truck drivers:
Night vision goggles, anyone? We just got them from a NATO container
When strolling through a flea market in Karachi, one would not expect to come across new uniforms intended for North Atlantic Treaty Organisation (Nato) forces in Afghanistan. However, Mohammad Siddique, a shopkeeper in Jackson Bazaar, Kemari, claims not only to have such uniforms, but also new accessories like boots, socks, and knives in his possession.
Worried that the goods may be counterfeits? Siddique provides a “money back guarantee” to his customers in case they are not satisfied.
“US commando boots, safety shoes, army uniforms, glasses, knives, torches, tools, socks, beds and even night vision goggles are sold in Chaman and Peshawar,” says Siddique. Night vision goggles, especially, are considered a rarity for much of the Pakistani armed forces.
However, Siddique said that he does not display these items in his shop, as they are either stolen from Nato containers in Pakistan, or brought in from Afghanistan through the Chaman and Torkham borders.
...
...

No wonder many of the L-E-T pigs have very good Night Vision equipment, all stolen courtesy Khakis in the name of war against Terror. I am sure some of these equipment is used in Afghanistan also.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 06 Apr 2012 16:30

Rajdeep wrote:The ability of these guys to lie through their teeth is what has helped these snakes survive.

All for a good cause, as Zia mian overtly said and other Pakistanis have covertly followed. Nobody exposes their lies. We knew that in 2009, when Rehman Malik promised voice samples to Chidambaram, it was simply a bait to make him attend the SAARC Ministers' meeting and thaw the India-Pakistan relationship. P.Chidambaram triumphantly said upon return that within a week, India would get the voice samples. What is the situation now ? PC does not want to attend the lunch with Zardari tomorrow because Rehman Malik may be there. This is the end of the voice samples issue. Lying helps, This is how it usually ends up.

Besides lying, they are also adept at turning anything upside down. Like for example, the RFJ bounty was used by GoP to say that it was proof that there was insufficient evidence given by India against Professor saheb.

If the situation is beyond their usual capacity to salvage, they privately plead not to press an issue openly in order to save Pakistan's H&D or their own skin. And then, they deny any unwritten promise ever having been made.

Luit · Post by **Luit** » 06 Apr 2012 16:55

Azzam and Sayeed were/are bishops on a chessboard, PA is the queen and house of saud the king.

bruce reidel claims that Azzam was terminated by GID (Jordan). GID was perhaps wary of Azzam's intention to start jihad in palestine.

Sayeed will not be taken out unless Let starts hitting western interests in afghanistan, i think the bounty on his head is a warning to stay away from afghanistan. I think they are trying very hard to keep Let operations India centric.

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 06 Apr 2012 17:05

Pakistan dumps event, blames India

Pakistan Hockey Federation cancelled the three-nation tournament, scheduled to be held in Lahore from April 9-13, after Malaysia pulled out of the event two days ago and the Indian team was stopped in its tracks by a directive from its external affairs ministry on Tuesday.

"It is with deep regret that we have to announce that India has said it cannot send its team for the competitions," PHF secretary Asif Bajwa was quoted as saying in Lahore by agencies. "In the last two years, we have been to India several times and have invited them to come to Pakistan and assured them full hospitality and security. Unfortunately, neither the federation nor their government has responded in the same way."

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 06 Apr 2012 17:11

The Secret Strength of Pakistan's Economy

It’s early morning in Karachi, Pakistan’s biggest city, and Muhammad Nasir is outside his makeshift shelter of palm leaves, rags, and bamboo, washing up after breakfast. He uses water stolen from a nearby supply pipe that belongs to the local water utility. The 17-year-old bids farewell to his mother, an unlicensed midwife, and walks to his tire-repair shop, an open-air stand in a residential area with a table of tools and a wooden bench. He checks to make sure the electricity he’s drawing illegally from the overhead power line is on so he can run his tire pump. Then he sends 10-year-old Abid, one of his two employees, along with 12-year-old Irfan, to get tea from a nearby shop.

Nasir’s business, his home, his power and water supply, and even the cup of tea Abid brings him don’t exist in Pakistan’s official figures. They’re part of another economy that doesn’t pay taxes or heed regulations. It probably employs more than three quarters of the nation’s 54 million workers and is worth as much as 50 percent of Pakistan’s 18 trillion rupee ($200 billion) official gross domestic product. And while the documented economy had its smallest expansion in a decade at 2.4 percent in the year ended June 2011, soaring demand for cars, cement for houses, and other goods shows the underground market is thriving

Daily life of an abdul

He spends the morning repairing tires and fixing motorbikes, taking payments in cash and never issuing a receipt. At lunchtime he sends for salad and yogurt or lentil curry from one of the nearby pushcart vendors, none of whom is licensed. His mother and sister, a maid, supplement the family income with jobs in the informal sector. After work, a religious teacher comes to give them lessons on the Koran at home, charging a monthly fee in cash that isn’t reported to the government. Once a month, Nasir pays 300 rupees rent to a man who illegally settled on the land where Nasir’s family dwelling was built.

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 06 Apr 2012 17:15

SSridhar wrote: If the situation is beyond their usual capacity to salvage, they privately plead not to press an issue openly in order to save Pakistan's H&D or their own skin. And then, they deny any unwritten promise ever having been made.

SS garu
If they did provide voice samples then what? Will India ask Pak to extradite him? If so Will they oblige? If at all he is to be presented in an Indian court then what? Kasab was caught in the act on camera and we are still feeding him Biryanis. It just takes a fistful of cash for a disgruntled Abdul in Pakistan itself to blow him to his 72.
India needs to think out of the box to control the problem.
Altair

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 06 Apr 2012 17:35

SS/R=man et. al,

With all due respect to US and its Paki clients, I have a rather naive question. When US and its Paki clients rounded up and tortured 100s of so called Al Queda suspects, when US and its Paki clients bumped off 100s of so called Al Queda terrorists through drones, was there any "evidence" they brought to the table, much less place the bar of evidence so high as in the case of anti-India terrorist Hafeexz pig? Or as somebody else pointed out, this is a good move by US signalling to its Paki clients that Hafeez pig & Co should remain "good terrorists" and not sway into the bad territory?

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 06 Apr 2012 17:49

Brad Goodman wrote:The Secret Strength of Pakistan's Economy
Daily life of an abdul

He spends the morning repairing tires and fixing motorbikes, taking payments in cash and never issuing a receipt. At lunchtime he sends for salad and yogurt or lentil curry from one of the nearby pushcart vendors, none of whom is licensed. His mother and sister, a maid, supplement the family income with jobs in the informal sector. After work, a religious teacher comes to give them lessons on the Koran at home, charging a monthly fee in cash that isn’t reported to the government. Once a month, Nasir pays 300 rupees rent to a man who illegally settled on the land where Nasir’s family dwelling was built.

There was a very hilarious similar article where the Abdul is so unhappy with his current life and wife that he prefers to have a romp with his loyal donkey than his ugly and demanding wife

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 06 Apr 2012 18:43

Altair wrote:
SSridhar wrote: If the situation is beyond their usual capacity to salvage, they privately plead not to press an issue openly in order to save Pakistan's H&D or their own skin. And then, they deny any unwritten promise ever having been made.
SS garu
If they did provide voice samples then what? . . .
Altair

Altair saheb, oh, No. We both know the answer. That is besides the point. I was simply referring to the various Paki tactics. BTW, India is not the only country taken in by Pakistan.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 06 Apr 2012 19:00

CRamS wrote:Or as somebody else pointed out, this is a good move by US signalling to its Paki clients that Hafeez pig & Co should remain "good terrorists" and not sway into the bad territory?

About a week back, we heard the US Asst Defence Secretary, Michael Sheehan admit openly that the US has given up on changing the fixated mindset of Pakistan vis-a-vis India and that they have veered around to the PoV that they have to only work around that. I interpreted that as the US admission that jihadi terrorism against India by Pakistan was justified because of its inevitability. If the US is announcing this paper bounty as a warning to PA to keep the LeT reined-in as far as only Afghanistan went, then the quid-pro-quo can only be that LeT had a free hand wrt India especially in the backdrop of what Sheehan admitted.

I would say that it is as short-sighted as Zbigniew Brzezinski's 'a few stirred up Moslems' are better than the evil Soviet Union. The US should know better even going by Sheehan's admission. If PA has unwavering focus on India, then 'strategic depth' in Afghanistan will always be its goal, which meant that it wouldn't care for the US interests there if they clashed with those of Pakistan. After all thle-cross dealings the US has faced from the PA over the years, it should not expect anything else wrt reining-in LeT as well.

So, keeping LeT away from Afghanistan cannot be achieved by this bounty.

PS: Besides, LeT is a marginal player in Afghanistan, not a game changer there.

Abhijit · Post by **Abhijit** » 06 Apr 2012 22:00

Shiv saar:

Is this because the army sees itself as 'Punjabi" with no stake in other areas?
Is it because the army is waiting for things to get so bad that they can come in with force and tell the civilians that they are so good at bringing law and order?
Is it because the army actually does not wield the influence required in some areas and will find itself in an unwinnable civil war?

I have a couple of theories on this one. Look at the fun and games in krachi. If PA tries to intervene, they will get more body bags than they can handle, because the players in the game are almost as heavily armed as the PA itself. The brave jihad-i-fistula paki jernails are not going to risk their lives where there is a real chance of getting their heads chopped off or butts riddled with real bullets. Hence the hands off approach.

Another reason is that in an internal situation, especially outside the pakjab, the rest of the paki awam doesn't have much faith in the professionalism and integrity/impartiality of paki army. if PA tries to intervene in krachi, they are scared that the warring parties might call a truce and take on the PA instead.

JMHO.

--- edited after Ramana garu's post ---

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 06 Apr 2012 22:03

Abhijit, There is no compelling reason to bring in India into the TSP thread. There is nothing that warrants that.
Kolaveri?

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 06 Apr 2012 23:36

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 561694.cms
Hafiz Saeed helping de-radicalise militants: Pakistan

Why is TOI posting such drivel? There are umpteen youtube videos of that fellow yelling "India ka ek ilaaj, Al-jihad, Al-jihad"

The "deradicalization" is aimed solely at unkil where the likes of Faisal Shehzad are asked to do attack India but not america (see? They dont hate the west anymore, they just hate India! Deradicalized!!)

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 07 Apr 2012 00:05

^^^ Anujan, It comes from secular modern mind set.

If the L-e-pigs attack India its because India is Hindu.
Then it becomes Hindu-Muslim.

Even Bharat Karnad called the TSP attacks on India as riots with tanks.

If L-e-pigs attack West they are radicalized.

Its igniores the reason why the pigs attack the West!!!