PRC Economy - New Reflections : Dec 15 2011

member_20810 · Post by **member_20810** » 06 Apr 2012 04:15

ashi wrote:
Raja Bose wrote: We pay too much attention to people's feelings and what they think and not enough attention on the main goal which is making money and projecting positive image.
Tell that to the hundreds of million of people who lives in slums and don't have enough food to get by daily that "you are paying too much attention" to their feelings.

I thought the previous effort that you put up to mock and bash China was better than this sarcasm which is neither witty nor funny.

Oh exalted one, please tell us on how to better the lives of hundreds of millions of people. Please reeducate us.

zlin · Post by **zlin** » 06 Apr 2012 07:13

Engineering marvel--The Qing-Tibet Railway, by Discovery Channel

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 06 Apr 2012 07:21

ashi wrote: Tell that to the hundreds of million of people who lives in slums and don't have enough food to get by daily that "you are paying too much attention" to their feelings.

I can definitely do that - I am going to China in 2 weeks.

ashi wrote: I thought the previous effort that you put up to mock and bash China was better than this sarcasm which is neither witty nor funny.

Please forgive my 4th cousin, he sometimes logs in through my BRF account. Why do you think you are the target??

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 06 Apr 2012 09:06

Tell that to the hundreds of million of people who lives in slums and don't have enough food to get by daily that "you are paying too much attention" to their feelings.

Slum dwellers don't want to evict the slums . They are sometimes offered an equivalent of USD 100K to offer a small piece of land in dharaavi , yet they refuse.

You can get a better understanding the political dynamics of slums in mumbai by the following article..

http://opinion.inquirer.net/8739/a-walk-thru-dharavi

Slum dwellers are not in as bad shape as you might imagine. Many have LCD tv and satellite connection..

a decade or 2 down the line mumbai may be slum free.. once they are offered a satisfactory compensation Dharaavi might end up with shopping malls and high rise buildings .. there won't be any skyscrapers due to its proximity to airport. but it ll become a decent area.

http://www.dharavi.org/Dharavi_Advocacy ... nt_Project

when you talk about Indian slums , you don't known what you are talking about..

ashi · Post by **ashi** » 06 Apr 2012 09:20

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gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 06 Apr 2012 09:27

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gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 06 Apr 2012 09:30

if people were allowed to film freely , even more grotesque pictures would emerge..

It is a matter of time , that India will achieve the infra , that China has achieved . But China will never achieve the judiciary , the democracy , the freedom of speech etc that India has already achieved and is continually evolving..

ashi · Post by **ashi** » 06 Apr 2012 09:35

gakakkad wrote:if you want to get to poverty p0rnography , I can show you chinese poverty ..

The official statement from Chinese government is we are still a poor country in per capital base. And the video you show is the poverty in remote village in China. Usually those place are not well connected in road with other parts of China. It is not a slum.

ashi · Post by **ashi** » 06 Apr 2012 09:39

gakakkad wrote:if people were allowed to film freely , even more grotesque pictures would emerge..

It is a matter of time , that India will achieve the infra , that China has achieved . But China will never achieve the judiciary , the democracy , the freedom of speech etc that India has already achieved and is continually evolving..

Gakakkad, I suggest you to pay a trip to China to see if anyone stopping you from filming the poor village. Every year there are far more tourists go to China than India. You heard anyone complaining (not counting the spies)?

Whatever the judiciary,democracy you have, has it stopped the rampant corruption and inept government? The democracy you have, it is as real as the communism we have in China currently.

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 06 Apr 2012 09:52

The official statement from Chinese government is we are still a poor country in per capital base. And the video you show is the poverty in remote village in China.

the official statement from Indian government is that we are still piss poor.. the official statement for BR-fite is that we are still poor due to the socialist nutheads running the country.. no one here ever claimed otherwise ..

Usually those place are not well connected in road with other parts of China. It is not a slum.

there is no internal visa in India .. villages migrate to slums at a certain time of the year to work in businesses.. There are no slums in shanghai because they are not allowed to be there.. first thing is that people are not allowed to reside in shanghai due to the internal visa ..second thing is that they are locked up at night than allowed to build a slum..

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38248053/ns ... 35waasS01I

China's capital has started gating and locking some of its lower-income neighborhoods overnight, with police or security checking identification papers around the clock, in a throwback to an older style of control.

you don't see slums in Beijing because you lock them up..

[youtube]X4jyvqSY5rw[/quote]

P.S India is a piss poor country... we have a corrupt inefficient government and boor-o-cracy

Jai hu Jai mao..

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 06 Apr 2012 09:53

Whatever the judiciary,democracy you have, has it stopped the rampant corruption and inept government? The democracy you have, it is as real as the communism we have in China currently.

Plan to visit China sometimes. I have visited HK as a kid.. liked to place..

I suggest you visit India..

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 06 Apr 2012 09:59

Aha. More pissing contests. jai hu, jai mao.

ashi wrote:Gakakkad, I suggest you to pay a trip to China to see if anyone stopping you from filming the poor village. Every year there are far more tourists go to China than India. You heard anyone complaining (not counting the spies)?

Yup, easy for a drone to say that. But if you overstep the invisible line, you'll disappear with no recourse in law, courts, anything.

Whatever the judiciary,democracy you have, has it stopped the rampant corruption and inept government? The democracy you have, it is as real as the communism we have in China currently.

Whoever said democracy was about stopping rampant corruption and inept government. Democracy is about the govt respecting people's fundamental rights, first and foremost. It for instance, has stopped the govt from implementing a one-child-only policy by fiat here. Or coercive curbs on internal migration. What a disaster that would've been... Intruding that much into people's private lives won't stand in a democracy. Whereas, in PRC its par for the course and will find wilful defenders among the dronistas.

Lest anyone have delusions about this - slums existed even in the first world a century ago. They existed in Toronto as late as the 1950s. It took a century plus of steady growth to get the 1st world to its slum-free existence today. Even then, trailer parks and inner city ghettos abound. We'll get there someday, a generation or 2 hence.

In any case, this 'debate' itself is pointless. I might hajaar admire PRC's halmony and plogress but its impossible to replicate the PRC style govt here. Just not happening. So we move on, exposing our faults, faultlines, weaknesses, rotten-ness and corruption to the open, to the sunlight's disinfecting properties. Here, what you see is what you get. Truth and honesty (even unconsciously done) have something to them after all. Time will tell or so I hope.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 06 Apr 2012 10:35

ashi wrote:You heard anyone complaining (not counting the spies)?

You mean any one who complains is considered a spy (and then conveniently shot)? Even before they can emigrate with their Kanadian vijja?

ashi wrote: The democracy you have, it is as real as the communism we have in China currently.

This is the statement which conclusively proves that democracy is alive and thriving in India - Jai Hu!

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 06 Apr 2012 10:58

I repeat..this never happens in India

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38248053/ns ... ges-night/

BEIJING — The government calls it "sealed management." China's capital has started gating and locking some of its lower-income neighborhoods overnight, with police or security checking identification papers around the clock, in a throwback to an older style of control.

I am sure the chinese guest line of argument will be like this - "Just because you don't lock up your poor does not mean that you are a true democracy "

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 06 Apr 2012 13:30

Moderator's Note: What's the point of this Nth democracy vs authoritarianism flamewar ? Haven't we all established that the debate never amounts to anything more than collateral damage ?

zlin: please stop wasting bandwidth demonstrating your cut and paste skills. This isn't one of those soulless Chinese boards. You're expected to debate.

sha · Post by **sha** » 06 Apr 2012 14:18

gakakkad wrote:I repeat..this never happens in India

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38248053/ns ... ges-night/

BEIJING — The government calls it "sealed management." China's capital has started gating and locking some of its lower-income neighborhoods overnight, with police or security checking identification papers around the clock, in a throwback to an older style of control.

Eegregation system is bad indeed.

In india it may not hapen in this way, but happeds in another invisiable but more terrible way.

Welcom to china. Please share your stories about exprience in China. Just like the Chinese guy told his exprience in India's countryside.

http://tieba.baidu.com/p/1491364062?pn=1

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 06 Apr 2012 16:20

Raja Bose wrote:I think you made a mistake in the list.

3 Hsuehshan（雪山隧道） Taiwan 12.942 km (8.0 mi) 2006 2x2 5

silly phool..

'one china' lemember

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 06 Apr 2012 21:43

^^^Taiwan is part of China?? Why didn't anybody tell me??

wrdos · Post by **wrdos** » 06 Apr 2012 21:47

http://youtu.be/_EUxUM27cNQ

Guangzhou BRT

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 06 Apr 2012 22:21

Raja Bose wrote:^^^Taiwan is part of China?? Why didn't anybody tell me??

At this rate if we build a bridge or tunnel in Arunachal Pradesh, it will show up on their list.

ashi · Post by **ashi** » 06 Apr 2012 22:39

Raja Bose wrote:^^^Taiwan is part of China?? Why didn't anybody tell me??

Taiwan is called Republic of China officially.

paramu · Post by **paramu** » 06 Apr 2012 22:54

Mods:

Could you please start a" PRC Benis" thread for drones to post whatever they like there? Transfer relevant posts from this thread to that. Sanity of this thread has to be reclaimed.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 06 Apr 2012 23:02

ashi wrote:
Raja Bose wrote:^^^Taiwan is part of China?? Why didn't anybody tell me??
Taiwan is called Republic of China officially.

But that's different from People's Republic of China. Can I visit Taiwan for a business trip if I just have a business visa for PRC?

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 06 Apr 2012 23:17

ashi wrote:
Raja Bose wrote:^^^Taiwan is part of China?? Why didn't anybody tell me??
Taiwan is called Republic of China officially.

It's a different country from the People's Republic of China, just as Pakistan and Bangladesh are different countries from India.

anishns · Post by **anishns** » 07 Apr 2012 07:14

Bose babumoshai

Doesn't the same hold true for Hong Kong as well? Or is it OK for you to visit HK on a Chinese business visa...

Raja Bose wrote: But that's different from People's Republic of China. Can I visit Taiwan for a business trip if I just have a business visa for PRC?

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 07 Apr 2012 07:20

I think you don't need a visa for HK for upto 2 weeks stay unless you are a Paki.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 07 Apr 2012 11:15

Raja Bose wrote:I think you don't need a visa for HK for upto 2 weeks stay unless you are a Paki.

Pakistanis, Bangladeshis and Sri Lankan citizens also need a transit visa for HK airport, in addition to a visit visa requirement. Indian citizens require neither of those. I ran into an SL guy there who was complaining about it when I told him I just came back from a quick trip to the city on a short layover.

anishns · Post by **anishns** » 07 Apr 2012 18:46

How about Mainland Chinese folks? Can they visit HK as and when they please?

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 08 Apr 2012 01:22

^^^I would presume so. Would be strange if they couldn't.

Rishirishi · Post by **Rishirishi** » 08 Apr 2012 01:53

anishns wrote:How about Mainland Chinese folks? Can they visit HK as and when they please?

Nope. chinease people cant just enter HK, they need at least a passport, and I think a permit.

ashi · Post by **ashi** » 08 Apr 2012 04:01

Suraj wrote: It's a different country from the People's Republic of China, just as Pakistan and Bangladesh are different countries from India.

Name one major country which recognize Taiwan is a country. Not even India. I guess you can vote a government that will next time.

shyam · Post by **shyam** » 08 Apr 2012 04:54

Jhujar wrote:Any list of internationally recognized literary,intellectual work done in last 2,3 decades?

Jhujar-bhai, you also have to give hints how to copy that and reproduce cheap versions.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 08 Apr 2012 11:30

ashi wrote:
Suraj wrote: It's a different country from the People's Republic of China, just as Pakistan and Bangladesh are different countries from India.
Name one major country which recognize Taiwan is a country. Not even India. I guess you can vote a government that will next time.

It's still a country with its own independent government, currency, foreign affairs and defence. Unlike Tibet, it is not even a government in exile because it is not hosted by another country - they run their territory.

Furthermore, your contention is not quite accurate: India does not recognize the ROC's claim over the mainland. It de-recognized ROC and instead recognizes PRC as the sole 'China'. However, it also recognizes Taiwan as a separate de facto nation of its own (without recognizing its claim to the mainland) - there exists both a Taiwan embassy in New Delhi as well as a consulate in Bombay, and an Indian consular office in Taipei.

Taiwan Embassy in India
N-88, Panchsheel Park
New Delhi

Taiwan General Consulate in Mumbai, India
9th Floor, Hoechst House, 193 Backbay Reclamation
Nariman Point
Mumbai

Indian Representative Office in Taipei, Taiwan
Room 2010, 333 Keelung Road., Sec. 1
Taipei

You want to belabor the point of de facto vs de jure recognition ? By all means, do. It's the only fig leaf you have. Every country that maintains consular relationships with Taiwan essentially mocks China. The only ones who follow a proper One China policy are those who do not maintain any consular ties with Taiwan. Everyone else (including India) just says 'yes, yes, One China onlee' from one side of the mouth, while talking to Taiwan from the other side of the mouth, if you get my drift.

From my perspective it is not even rhetorical - if I wanted to visit PRC, I get a PRC visa. If I wanted to visit Taiwan, I get a Taiwan visa. Actually, Indians with professional visas or permanent residencies from a bunch of western nations can enter Taiwan visa-free; that applies to me as well.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 08 Apr 2012 11:36

ashi wrote:
Suraj wrote: It's a different country from the People's Republic of China, just as Pakistan and Bangladesh are different countries from India.
Name one major country which recognize Taiwan is a country. Not even India. I guess you can vote a government that will next time.

hmm...strange question since for visiting Taiwan one needs to get a Taiwanese visa and not a PRC visa. And there used to be a Taiwanese embassy quite close to my home in New Delhi, probably still is there. I dont think 'non-nations' or entities which are not nations have proper embassies with consular services in other countries.

partha · Post by **partha** » 08 Apr 2012 11:47

Raja Bose wrote:^^^Taiwan is part of China?? Why didn't anybody tell me??

I once asked a man from Taiwan whether he was from China. He got offended.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 08 Apr 2012 11:56

^^^I did that to a Paki once who told me he was from Kashmir and I replied, "oh! So you are a fellow Indian"

Poor Paki's face looked like Groper was fiddling with his testimonials.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 08 Apr 2012 11:57

partha wrote:I once asked a man from Taiwan whether he was from China. He got offended.

Every Taiwanese I know has made it a point to politely ask me to refer to them as Taiwanese and not Chinese. Sample size of about a dozen people in all.

partha · Post by **partha** » 08 Apr 2012 11:58

Raja Bose wrote:^^^I did that to a Paki once who told me he was from Kashmir and I replied, "oh! So you are a fellow Indian" Poor Paki's face looked like Groper was fiddling with his testimonials.

I'll keep this in mind

sha · Post by **sha** » 08 Apr 2012 17:53

sha wrote:
Eegregation system is bad indeed.

In india it may not hapen in this way, but happeds in another invisiable but more terrible way.

Welcom to china. Please share your stories about exprience in China. Just like the Chinese guy told his exprience in India's countryside.

http://tieba.baidu.com/p/1491364062?pn=1

Marten wrote:Sha, let me call you on the BS. First post disappeared, he say? You gotta be kidding us. Why waste your time and ours? This is like a bunch of schoolkids operating, not the professional drones that you are. Please bring us better material to understand how the Chinese understand Indians because most Indians really don't get China or the Chinese. Most folks don't even care.

Marten, I don't understand why you were offended.

I think it's the one of the wonderful material for the Chinese to understand India and for the Indians to unsterstand how Chinese view India.
Some amazing facts about the thread. It has a hit rate of over ten millions with 8000+ replies up to now. It has also been reproduced to various forums and other websites.
It only takes four days for this happening. It seems that the ordinary Chinese's interest (or curiosity) in India is growing.

chola · Post by **chola** » 08 Apr 2012 20:02

ashi wrote:
Gakakkad, I suggest you to pay a trip to China to see if anyone stopping you from filming the poor village. Every year there are far more tourists go to China than India. You heard anyone complaining (not counting the spies)?

Whatever the judiciary,democracy you have, has it stopped the rampant corruption and inept government? The democracy you have, it is as real as the communism we have in China currently.

The Chinese people should be proud of the fact that it is doing as well as it has despite being a communist dunghole. But it should be less proud that it is communist. Because without a shadow of a doubt, all communist states were failed ones from the USSR to Romania to North Korea.

Without communism, you chinis should be at where Taiwan, Japan and South Korea is today. But you are not, you are many many times poorer per capita.

Conversely, India should be more confident of the fact that the wealthiest nations on earth are democracies. Instead, while we speak of democracy as being great for freedoms of speech, association and other higher aspirations onlee, we refuse to acknowledge that it is also the most powerful creator of material wealth on earth.

As a democracy India should be already be where Taiwan, Japan and South Korea is today. We are rightly proud of democracy but we should be less proud of how we we've failed to use this advantage.

If China remains communist, and I hope it does, it will eventually collapse. If it democratizes in the future, it will take a lead that no one else can ever overcome as a Japan times 10 or a Hong Kong times 100.

But my bet is that it will remain communist and eventually crumble under its own weight and contradiction -- at which point, it will be rebuilt by the US in its own image and Panda will remain as an American lapdog like South Korea or Japan forever more.