Mass Rapid Transit in India

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 20 Dec 2011 21:31

That this excess traffic will lead to worse roads is what bothers me. As it is the area around the construction sites will be filled with debris and enough dust in the air. Lorries going in and out will ensure that half a km this way and that will have enough suspended dust in the air to ensure another few thousand get asthma or breathing problems for a few years. Sooner or later the entire city is going to have breathing problems!

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 20 Dec 2011 23:51

Is it that bad?

The are talking about 218 truck trips a day.

Elaborate measures would be put in place for collection, transfer and disposal of an estimated 1.85 million metric cube of excavated soil. Nearly four lakh truck trips would be required in a span of 4-5 years, which translates to 218 trips per day. “We have been allotted several abandoned stone quarries beyond Tambaram,” Mr.Rajaraman says.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 21 Dec 2011 20:57

Amma is blaming the Mannargudi Mafia for the Monorail debacle. Shows you how venal our bidding process is. She needs to get off her high horse and start off Phase-2 of Chennai Metro. This city will collapse with the traffic choking it right now.

Chennai doesn't have dilli billi or even Mumbai style wide arteries. 218 lorries is a lot.

Also CMRL is easily the best organized government construction unit I have ever seen. By faaar.

I'm sure they have a traffic plan that they can adjust as problems show. WRT dust and dirt the #1 contributors are the uncovered garbage vans and sand lorries that roll through the city leaving random offerings every where. They are mostly run at night so spills are confronted by us in the morning.

Marut · Post by **Marut** » 22 Dec 2011 16:20

Amma can blame whomsoever she wants but the point remains that monorail is a non-starter as an arterial mass transit system. The throughput is simply not adequate to deal with future increase in ridership. Given the urban sprawl being experienced, metro will be best bet to handle the load. The technology for monorail is proprietary and incompatible with each other unlike metro where its either meter gauge or standard gauge and rolling stock can be manufactured per specs by anyone. Monorail is a fit case of setting ourselves for being arm twisted during follow on orders.

Btw tea leaf reading says the bhoomiputras who have egged on Amma for the system weren't gonna make the cut hence the retender

Even in metro, I prefer underground construction rather than elevated ones. Given the haphazard layout of our cities and the lack information on myriad cables and pipes buried in the initial 2-3m, tunnelling about 9-10m below is the best way to avoid these hassles. For those making the argument of increased cost, 80% of pier foundations for the Mumbai Metro are unique as are about 40% of viaduct sections. These two factors by themselves have delayed the project by more than 1.5 years in all. The delay from the railway will take its toll as well. Now please calculate the costs of this delays due to lost ridership and we will be close to underground costs.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 23 Dec 2011 05:43

Marut,

underground will cause actually more delays than that. Even in underground they will have buy the land through which it passes + support the foundations of nearby buildings which might get affected due to the tunnel.

and the tunnel boring machines bring their own set of issues. For example in hyderabad, they failed because of the rocky nature of soil when they used for cables.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 27 Dec 2011 09:25

Roadblocks to Chennai monorail project

The Chennai Monorail network was supposed to be constructed rapidly and branch out into the city's booming suburbs. A 2014 deadline was set for the operational inauguration of at least one of the four lines in the 111-km long Phase-I.

But the lack of enough eligible participants in the bidding process and the subsequent decision to float a new tender for the project have come as temporary stumbling blocks. Many experts say that the eligibility criteria set by the government in the initial tender were too ambitious. .

The original Request For Quotation (RFQ) document of the global tender, which was initiated on August 15, says that in order to pre-qualify, a participating consortium/company should have been awarded an urban rail project (suburban, metro, monorail or tramway) with a minimum route length of 37-km within the last three years. Since awarding of the contract alone was sufficient, the project need not be operational.

Following the pre-bid meeting on September 8, the minimum route length required was changed to 25 km. An additional clause was added to allow those who had built a 12-km monorail line (not any urban rail project), which had also begun commercial operation, to participate.

A senior executive of a prominent monorail manufacturer, which was part of the bidding process, said that the bigger problem was the condition that the projects should have been awarded or constructed under a Public Private Partnership (PPP) model. One of the first monorail networks in the world to be built under a PPP model is coming up in Sao Paulo, Brazil, where an extensive monorail system is being built ahead of the 2014 FIFA football world cup.

The only city where a monorail line is under construction in India is Mumbai, where it is being built under what is called an EPC (Engineering, Procurement and Construction) contract. There are simply not enough monorail systems in the world that have been built under the PPP model. Official sources said that though over 15 entities initially elicited interest, a mere three qualified.

The monorail company executive said that some people were rendered eligible to participate only because of change in tender conditions. “A lot of things went wrong with the tender,” he said.

“I think senior members in the government sensed something was amiss. The Metropolitan Transport Corporation Managing Director (the nodal officer for the project) was transferred in a week after the government decided to float a new tender,” he added. Senior officials in the monorail cell were also shunted out overnight.

A senior government official said that the Finance Department is reviewing the new tender to be floated. “The Empowered Monorail Committee would take a decision shortly,” he added. The eligibility criteria are expected to be tweaked a bit.

There would also be several costs and benefits associated with Chennai's decision to go in for a PPP model. Unlike Mumbai's EPC model, where the city would own the monorail lines but the operator would be paid a monthly fee to run the trains, Chennai's monorail system would belong to a private operator for 30 years.

P.R.K. Murthy, head of the Transportation Division of the Mumbai Metropolitan Region Development Authority, said: “Under the PPP model, the city has to keep paying back the operator for decades. Sometimes, it is lucrative to invite a private player just to operate after the government builds the infrastructure.”

N. S. Srinivasan, former director, National Transportation Planning and Research Centre, said: “The government has to ensure there are adequate safeguards. It should have a say in, for example, the train frequency, the fare structure and the service quality.”

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 27 Dec 2011 10:20

SS, what are those big pillars in the middle of the road in Saidapet to Guindy meant for? monorail?

Traffic in chennai is better than blr, but that's not saying much. we also have to deal with dust and heat on the road, so it evens out. Roads are very constricted and there is no hope of expanding it inside the city.

Everyday I would see dozens of cops lined up and directing traffic whenever a "VIP" passes by. Someday a crowd will spillover and riot

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 27 Dec 2011 17:44

Gus wrote:SS, what are those big pillars in the middle of the road in Saidapet to Guindy meant for? monorail?

Traffic in chennai is better than blr, but that's not saying much. we also have to deal with dust and heat on the road, so it evens out. Roads are very constricted and there is no hope of expanding it inside the city.

Everyday I would see dozens of cops lined up and directing traffic whenever a "VIP" passes by. Someday a crowd will spillover and riot

Chennai Metro- not Mono rail. Everytime my commute to the airport gets delayed.

and MMS became all the more popular with me after delayed me for 3 hours yesterday. Damn and I had a full bladder in between.

My dad has anther fear. he says much of Chennai is only around 6ft above sea level and hence going underground is dangerous, any idea how this has been mitigated?.

Meanwhile my childhood playing area, Thir Vi Ka Park in Shenoy Nagar has been totally damaged. I feel atleast Bengaluru the ORR, NICE road and newer sections are better planned than the outskirts of Chennai like, ECR, OMR etc. Alternate roads are few and all the side roads are 20 feet wide, when houses come up only the main road can be used, 1 car gets parked and these roads are blocked.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 28 Dec 2011 07:37

Gus wrote:SS, what are those big pillars in the middle of the road in Saidapet to Guindy meant for? monorail?

Traffic in chennai is better than blr, but that's not saying much. we also have to deal with dust and heat on the road, so it evens out. Roads are very constricted and there is no hope of expanding it inside the city.

Everyday I would see dozens of cops lined up and directing traffic whenever a "VIP" passes by. Someday a crowd will spillover and riot

That section of the metro has come up quite fast and viaducts are in place over a 5 km stretch. They are about to place the rails and start the electrification work.

When I used to live in Bengaluru, I had the same opinion that Chennai traffic was better. May be it is a tad better. The traffic keeps moving at least. But, as you said, it is not saying much.

The roads are in-expandable width-wise. The density of vehicles has been geometrically progressing. In my quiet suburb, and especially in my street, the traffic is so high that I find it difficult to even take my car out of my garage. It is so difficult to drive a car around or find a parking place. The MTC cannot add any more buses within the city as the roads are saturated beyond their capacity. The MRTS has been unable to go beyond Velachery and connect to St. Thomas Mount mainline due to litigation now for a decade. We have a huge transportation problem.

As you said, the traffic cops are absolutely clueless. It is also a fact that they cannot offer alternate routes when congestion happens anywhere because there are none. The recent visit of Man Mohan Singh caused traffic jams for six to eight hours after he left !

That is why, I support any mass transit option to improve transportation within the city, whether it is monorail or MRTS or Metro. As Indians, we love arguing as to why one form would suit better than the other. But, at the end of the day, the ruling dispensation has the responsibility to choose something and implement it. They do not have the luxury of keeping quiet. With the huge financial mess of the State due to uncontrolled populist policies, they can only go for options that place less strain on them financially. It is a tricky situation.

manish · Post by **manish** » 28 Dec 2011 14:44

Aditya_V wrote: Meanwhile my childhood playing area, Thir Vi Ka Park in Shenoy Nagar has been totally damaged. I feel atleast Bengaluru the ORR, NICE road and newer sections are better planned than the outskirts of Chennai like, ECR, OMR etc. Alternate roads are few and all the side roads are 20 feet wide, when houses come up only the main road can be used, 1 car gets parked and these roads are blocked.

Indeed!
Getting around in Chennai has become a surprisingly difficult task. I still remember comparing BLR and CHN traffic during a visit in 2006 when I had concluded that Chennai was definitely far better than BLR. But now IMVVHO, the tables seem to have turned. With due apologies to Bangaloreans, I must say that they are very close to losing their coveted title of 'traffic jam capital' of the country

Over the past 5 years, in several places in Bangalore, the traffic situation has actually improved (in relative terms of course!!) thanks to some investments that have been made in road widening, construction of flyovers and underpasses, completion of sections of ring roads/NICE corridor and of course, the completion of reach 1 of Namma Metro.

In the mean time, in Chennai, they did next to zero work - with the notable exception of a few flyovers, interchanges and roundabouts built by NHAI, next to nothing seems to have been done within city limits. Even some of the formerly 'posh' residential neighbourhoods such as Adyar/Besant Nagar in the southern part of town have turned into virtual parking lots and the same seems to be the case almost all over the city. The commissioning of MRTS in 2007 was a definite step forward but as SSridhar saar says, the work has not been taken to the logical conclusion and we are yet to reap the full benefits from it. After years of dillydallying, they haven't managed to complete the port connectivity road projects which would have helped the city's economy a lot.

Absolutely nothing has been done for areas such as OMR which has aspirations of being the city's alternate CBD - the place should have been a showpiece and instead what we have is a half-complete road minus the service lanes and of course zero grade separation of any kind along its entire 30-odd km length.

However, I am still keeping my hopes alive and hoping that GMR will do a good job on the ongoing ORR project.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 29 Dec 2011 08:45

Pursue Phase-II of Chennai Metro: E. Sreedharan

Delhi Metro Rail Corporation (DMRC) Managing Director E. Sreedharan has urged the State government to pursue the Phase-II expansion of the Chennai metro rail network. Observing that there has been a “violent shift” in policy ever since the new government came to power in the State, he said that the plan to cover the entire city with a monorail system is “misguided”.

In a letter to the Chief Secretary Debendranath Sarangi, Mr. Sreedharan said that though three possible corridors have already been identified by DMRC, which is the principal consultant for the Chennai Metro project, the official go-ahead for starting the detailed project report (DPR) for the next phase is still awaited. (In the first phase, two corridors totalling 45.08 km are being built in the city).

DMRC has also submitted a DPR for extending Corridor-I from Washemenpet to Wimco Nagar, a distance of nine km, at an estimated cost of Rs.2,240 crore on December 20, 2010. “It is understood that for want of a directive from the State government, CMRL has not processed this extension, though badly needed, to the Government of India for inclusion in Phase-I,” he said.

“Chennai has a population of over eight million. For this level of population, a large metro network is inevitable as the backbone of the public transport system. Monorail can, at best, only function as a feeder system,” Mr.Sreedharan, who is set to retire this month, said.

vipins · Post by **vipins** » 29 Dec 2011 21:06

Xpost from Power Sector Thread
DMRC builds first underground power substations

In first-of-its kind in the country, Delhi Metro has constructed two underground substations here that will feed power to the high speed Airport Metro Express and plans to build nine such substations for its upcoming phase-III project.

"The substation, which is six metre below the ground, has already started feeding the Airport Line since June and would provide power supply to the Central Secretariat-Badarpur Line from next month," Delhi Metro Rail Corporation Director (Electrical) Satish Kumar said.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 04 Jan 2012 08:55

namma-Metro-II gets State Cabinet's Approval

Japan International Cooperation Agency would continue to be the funding agency for Phase II. The agency is funding Phase I of Namma Metro.

The routes under Phase I will be extended up to the periphery of Bangalore under Phase II. On the East-West Corridor of Phase I, the network will be extended to Whitefield from Byappanahalli (15.5 km) and up to Kengeri from Mysore Road Terminal near Nayandahalli (6.5 km).

On the North-South Corridor, the route will be extended up to Bangalore International Exhibition Centre from Hessarghatta Cross (3.8 km) and up to Anjanapura Township from Puttenahalli Cross (6.3 km).

A new trunk line will be constructed between Gottigere on Bannerghatta Road and Nagavara (21.2 km) via IIMB and Dairy Circle (elevated) Hosur Road, Madiwala, Vellara Junction, Brigade Road, Cauvery Emporium Junction, Kamaraj Road, Cantonment Railway Station, Tannery Road and Outer Ring Road Junction (underground).

A branch line will be constructed between R.V. Road Terminal in Jayanagar and Bommasandra Industrial Estate, off Hosur Road (18.8 km) via BTM Layout, Central Silk Board Junction and Electronics City.

prashanth · Post by **prashanth** » 04 Jan 2012 22:49

Namma Metro Phase II with a route network of 72.1 km to be implemented at an estimated cost of Rs. 27,000 crore by 2017.

They'll have difficult time in gathering Rs. 27000 crore, JBIC loan aside.

Purush · Post by **Purush** » 08 Jan 2012 12:11

Apologies if this is a repost.

http://www.cnngo.com/mumbai/life/pods-f ... 9090?pi=pi
India to get world's largest urban transport podcar system

After seeing the world's first commercially operational pod system at work at London's Heathrow airport, the Punjab government in India has begun to build the world’s largest urban Passenger Rapid Transport (PRT) system in Amritsar.

The 3.3-kilometer elevated guideway will cut 30 minutes off current journey times at prices similar to existing auro-rickshaws and taxis, according to Ultra Fairwood, the British company which designs, constructs and operates pod PRT solutions.

During religious festival days around 500,000 people visit Amritsar's Golden Temple, the holiest Sikh shrine, and the route from the railway and bus stations to the temple can become packed.

This is where, by 2014, a network of "ultra pods" will be in place -- rubber-tired, electric battery-powered vehicles capable of carrying four passengers and luggage.

These pods are driver-less, computer-driven, zero-emission vehicles that use one third the energy of a car and are nearly silent.
"The [Amritsar] pod system can carry up to 100,000 passengers a day on a two-mile elevated guide-way in over 200 specialist vehicles between seven stations, making it the world’s largest PRT system to date," said representatives at Ultra Fairwood.

Having broken ground in Amritsar on December 12, Ultra Global PRT said it's in discussions with authorities in other Asian cities that suffer from major transportation infrastructure issues.
“In one city, by installing a PRT system we could potentially reduce a current journey of up to one hour in peak hours to around seven minutes. In another country we may be able to reduce the number of cars on a major city’s streets by up to 20 percent," said Ultra Fairwood’s CFO and deputy CEO Alan Moore.

“Research has shown that by 2020, there could be between 50 to over 600 PRT system installations worldwide.”

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 09 Jan 2012 02:20

4 passenger pods?? yikes

Marut · Post by **Marut** » 14 Mar 2012 13:47

X-post from Infra dhaaga

Marut wrote:The E Sreedharan led panel has opined against PPP in urban transport infra projects. Having worked on two such projects myself, I can't find myself disagreeing with them.

http://articles.economictimes.indiatime ... -transport

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 10 Apr 2012 09:19

First Consignment of Chennai Metro rail tracks arrive from France

Metro Rail will start laying tracks for the Koyambedu to St. Thomas Mount stretch this month, marking significant progress in phase I of the project that will connect Chennai Central with St. Thomas Mount.

The rails are on their way from France to Chennai, by sea. They weigh a total of 3,500 tonnes and will arrive at the port on Tuesday. These tracks will be used on the elevated section from Koyambedu to St. Thomas Mount — the section that is expected to go operational by December 2013. The remainder of the 22 km-long corridor, which will run mostly underground, will require rails of a different kind.

According Chennai Metro Rail Limited (CMRL) officials, this is the first of four shipments arriving for the track work.

Each rail segment will be about 18m long. Fastenings to be used along the tracks are being sourced from the United Kingdom and China.

The very first consignment will be used in laying the stretch from Koyambedu to Vadapalani, and the rest for the depot coming up in Koyambedu.

CMRL officials say they want the work from Koyambedu to St. Thomas Mount to progress swiftly as its completion will help commence trial runs by the end of 2013.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Apr 2012 13:14

i think this pod thing will work in the congested inner city areas with people going to-from attractions. maybe the Taj also needs it.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 10 Apr 2012 17:12

why pink?

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 10 Apr 2012 23:41

^^^^^^

I still think these metro trains need to get bigger. Look at that cute thing encountering Chennai peak hour crowd on Mount Road. Heaven help us.

What is Delhi going to do after 8 coach trains reach capacity in a couple of years!The lines built at such expense will be maxed out 15 years after start!
ERS was great for the Metro but his emotional decision to go with smaller SG Coaches is going to haunt us for a long time.

The sad part is the other cities are not learning from this and building bigger coaches and longer trains from the first. Esp. Chennai's decision to limit at 6 coaches is truly baffling. All that investment with such puny capacity. We truly need to realistically deal India's incredible population density.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-new ... 34058.aspx

"To cope with the fast increasing commuters' pressure, we had introduced six-coach trains last year. But the situation has again gone out of control and we are left with no choice but to introduce eight-coach trains," said a DMRC official.

Delhi Metro had planned to introduce eight-coach trains in phase 3, which will be operational by 2016. But in view of the ever-increasing commuters pressure, it was advanced twice, first by 2013 and then to handle the increased passenger volume eight-coach trains would become a part of the fleet by June this year.

"The number of daily commuters on the Metro network has already reached 20 lakh now and is expected to go up further and that too at a very high rate," a senior DMRC official said.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 10 Apr 2012 23:45

Well, planning only for the present has been the bane of every infrastructure project in India. Highways, city roads, airports everything. The problem is not limited to Metro systems alone.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 11 Apr 2012 04:09

the sad part is not technology, but we just go by firangi statistics.. whose population is zilch compared to us.

we need technology for the masses .. jumbo jets, and high speed rail meaning, it must have more coaches and triple-quadriple driving engines.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 11 Apr 2012 07:14

^^^ Too true only.

Which is why broad gauge based mass rail transit is the best option - economical, scalable, ROI-generating heavy-traffic solution and all that. Sadly, it ain't pretty or sleek or very comfy either, admittedly. Plus little chance of kickbacks and all. So hasn't caught neta-babu fancy at all.

Look at the pathetic state of Hyd MMTS to get a clue. The funding for this extremely useful and beloved project has been starved by INC govts perhaps because its a TDP brainchild. Now, belatedly, some expansion talk is on the anvil.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 11 Apr 2012 08:53

I hate to call out the man, but ERS was the one who sent us down this path. All the planners strongly recommended sticking with Broad gauge 3.8m coaches. ERS even lost the fight initially but he decided to get back at the planners by strapping on the puny 3.0m coach to the BG bogies. Every metro since then has been forced to follow this dimension. As a nation we are now locked in. With the amount of metro coaches we are ordering we could have set a new world BG standard but for unfortunate decisions. It is hard to believe one man could send the entire nation down such a path but it has happened.

Hopefully all new lines are planned for at least 12-15 coach standards. Even that will prove inadequate as we hit the $5000 per capita mark and the entire population enters the modern age. Anyone know what Delhi metro-3 is being designed for? At least you don't get the toy monorail Chennai is being condemned to. Soon to be city of 20 million depending on monorail. Sigh!

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 11 Apr 2012 14:01

SaiK wrote:
why pink?

basking in sunlight right during sunset, its just concrete colour though. Looks quite ugly during my daily morning commute, without the paint and all. Now they are building this overhead line near the Kasi theatre and water drips on to the commuters below. I ride my bike to office these days to reduce the duration of my travel (40 mins in bike, 1 hour in car) and I am daily blessed with this water over me. Ahh bliss onleee!

nandakumar · Post by **nandakumar** » 11 Apr 2012 16:36

Theo_Fidel wrote:I hate to call out the man, but ERS was the one who sent us down this path. All the planners strongly recommended sticking with Broad gauge 3.8m coaches. ERS even lost the fight initially but he decided to get back at the planners by strapping on the puny 3.0m coach to the BG bogies. Every metro since then has been forced to follow this dimension. As a nation we are now locked in. With the amount of metro coaches we are ordering we could have set a new world BG standard but for unfortunate decisions. It is hard to believe one man could send the entire nation down such a path but it has happened.

Hopefully all new lines are planned for at least 12-15 coach standards. Even that will prove inadequate as we hit the $5000 per capita mark and the entire population enters the modern age. Anyone know what Delhi metro-3 is being designed for? At least you don't get the toy monorail Chennai is being condemned to. Soon to be city of 20 million depending on monorail. Sigh!

Theo
Dont know about the Delhi Metro, but in Chennai there was considerable debate about the broad gauge versus standard gauge. Three things tilted the decision in favour of standard Gauge.
1. Construction cost was greater under broad gauge and to make things worse the India didn't have the indigenous capacity for coach manufacture. The world over, city rapid transit systems are built on standard gauge track. So coach making capacity too is geared towards construction of standard gauge coaches. Ordering broad gauge coaches would have meant additional cost on tooling which would have pushed the cost further.
2. City transit systems typically involve alignments taking zig zag shapes as it has to traverse neighbourhoods with dense population. The trains would have to take a wider arc for every degree of curvature on the route. While that in itself is not a problem, what it also meant was that more land would have to be acquired whereever such acquisition became inevitable. The average civil servant knows that execution risks increase exponentially for incremental land acquisition. So a decision wwas taken to minimise the risk. Hence the preference for standard gauge.
3. The third argument was that the case for broad gauge was built on the notion of inter operability between long distance, suburban and intra-city rail systems. But this has rarely proved to be a must. For instance, the Chennai Beach- Tambaram suburban system ran on metre gauge for 50 years before the integration with the long distance broad gauge system happened. Till then, the system quite effectively ferried passengers wanting to travel to the North and the West (the South had to wait for long before broad gauge conversion happened) to Park Station to board trains at the Central Station terminal.
Given certain assumptions about traffic and its growth over time, the cost benefit calculations showed that standard gauge was a better option. Of course the key question is traffic estimation. I don't have the numbers. But what I do know is that the population within the city limits (the geographical footprint for the Chennai Metro) has been stagnant or grown only marginally while there is an explosion of population in the neighbouring districts of kanchipuram and Trivellore. What the Chennai metro will need in the days ahead are identification of suitable short spur lines brnaching off from key points along the current alignment of metro, MRTS and suburban train systems.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 11 Apr 2012 16:59

china has built a huge amt of metro systems lately, what guage do their big cities use. you can be sure land acquisition or cost would not have been blockers there.
the beijing subway is SG 1.4m but looking at photo the carriage is onlee MG sized!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:%E5%8 ... %BD%A6.JPG

same for shanghai metro
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... _Train.JPG
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Shang ... tation.jpg

and the delhi metro size and shape is identical!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Delhi ... ueLine.JPG

so the old man didnt pull it from his hat, he was following the strong worldwide trend. finding next gen designs, parts, service will be easier when you smoothly plug into a production setup for a very popular product like C-130 or F-16

we are not spending enough yet to be setting new world trends khan or china style. time to lick wounds, close gaps, sharpen knife and go with the flow for now.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 11 Apr 2012 20:21

The argument would not have reopened if the Metro lines were not maxing out so quickly. My argument is they could have kept the SG bogies but used BG coaches and kept the best of both worlds. Instead in Delhi they went the exact other way. They can still do this while the lines are being built by increasing clearances and following BG loading gauge, which by the way the entire remainder of our system is designed for. I agree the ERS got swayed by the firangi passenger numbers and slick images.

WRT Panda they don’t come close to Indian levels of density. Their cities are much more spread out.

Yes ERS definitely had a certain logic, but his argument was more about the running equipment, such as wheels motors and electronics. If we had bit the bullet and paid the Rs 2 Billion necessary to retool we would be benefiting right now. But like I said we are stuck in this mode. So pass the chai/biskutt and watch the tamasha when Chennai peak hour runs into this cute little thing. In Chennai in particular the transport is linear along Mount road and Poonamalee. In an urban study on mount road a few years ago passenger flow approaching 300,000 pphpd at peak hour was noted and increasing strongly. Yet somehow the Chennai metro at max 6 coach capacity is only a 40,000 pphpd medium capacity system. AFAIK none of the metros in India are high capacity systems with pphpd numbers above 100,000. So as soon as they are built they max out.

But the decision to go with 6-8 coach rakes is almost impossible to fix long term. I understand the financial imperative but we need to reconsider.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 12 Apr 2012 09:49

is the 8 coach rake limitation due to the sizing of platforms here? or there are other limitations like size of marshalling yards and repair shops?

if platform is limited which I agree is impossible to fix now, the only ugly workaround is first load the first 8 coaches, then lock the train, move forward 8 coaches, load the next 8 and then make the final move....

I fully agree the dinky trains one sees in bangalore will not be enough once the high density corridors like jayanagar, JP nagar and Chikpet come online...

Sridhar K · Post by **Sridhar K** » 12 Apr 2012 12:25

ERS was in Chennai yesterday overseeing the work. Being a Chennaiite my few cents

1) On the issue of BG vs SG and 6 coaches, sort of agree with Theo from a potential saturation perspective (not just potential, but saturation in on surely on the cards), though I am not an expert in navigation. Having travelled in Chennai (MG first and seen the transition to BG ) and the Mumbai locals felt that MG sized coaches running on SG in n NJ PATH & NY subways is too less for a dense city. The 12 car eMUs run by the Southern Railways today in Chennai are already overcrowded and wonder how the six cars would do unless the frequency is going to be extremely good.

2) With the city expanding outwards, also wonder why they chose to restrict the metro to airport/mount. The amount of people boarding local trains and buses in Tambaram, Chromepet and Pallavaram and the set of people travelling from Maraimalai nagar towards the city, cries for extending metro southwards. There was hue and cry about Thiruvottriyur for political reason but not Tambaram as the populace is generally salaried/middle class.

3) Also wonder why have 2 lines of the metro on the North South axis on phase 1 when we already have the suburban train running on that axis. MRTS was supposed to cover Mount AnnaNagar which is now taken by the metro and will fill one of the crucial lines. The Northeast - Southwest axis is crying for rail transportation with the city's traffic and vehicle movements pattern has changed with more people travelling to office in OMR, Tambaram-Chinglepet stretches these days than inside the city. The lines should have been Tambaram- Red hills and AnnaNagar - Thiruvanmiyur --Kelambakkam

Ideally, these planners and designers should spend months travelling on these locals trains and buses to understand the ground realities in addition to relying on stats.

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 12 Apr 2012 18:59

manish · Post by **manish** » 12 Apr 2012 19:19

Chennai (Perungudi)-Cuddalore IR line is supposed to help with connectivity along OMR and beyond. This is a sanctioned project although actual progress on the ground is very little.

The alignment has been more or less frozen in 2011 itself. It would dive East after starting off near Perungudi MRTS and continue roughly along the Buckingham canal till about Sholinganallur or so. Afterwards it roughly hugs the ECR towards Pondicherry.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 12 Apr 2012 22:10

Manish,

Is that intended to be a mainline+EMU 4 line section like beach tambaram. I hope they plan for emu services right away.
----------------------------------------------------

Sridhar,

Absolutely agree on the need for NE-SW connectivity. Esp. as there Zero proper road connectivity right now. IIRC Phase-2 of Metro was supposed to deal with some of that. I wish AMMA would do both mono and metro. That way she can finance mono from state, since JBIC & GOI won't touch mono with a barge pole and finance Metro from GOI & JBIC funds.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 13 Apr 2012 01:24

Yogi_G wrote:..Ahh bliss onleee!

even dmk color would look good. [black and red]. pure white-wash would be great! since chennai is sun friendly place, it would be ideal to have all infrastructure in darker grey shades, while most services and equipments could be lighter color. that would make it fantastic.

stay away from the gody ones - red, yellow, green, and teal blues.

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 13 Apr 2012 12:29

I doubt if anything will come up in OMR. Politicians may now want to be seen contributing towards amenities for IT people. There is some animosity towards IT-Vity folks in Chennai and any politician seen putting up facilities will likely go down. IT-Vity people are only to be milked and pay taxes.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 13 Apr 2012 20:30

Why have we made ourselves dependent on humans than processes?

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 13 Apr 2012 20:37

There is some animosity towards IT-Vity folks in Chennai and any politician seen putting up facilities will likely go down. IT-Vity people are only to be milked and pay taxes.

Considerable truth in that.OTOH,a MRTS line will accelerate development in OMR and this could be one of the economic powerhouses of the future in the entire SE Asia region.TN is now so far into industrialisation/services that it cannot go back.It requires more and more investment/technology/people and a positive attitude.If I were a betting man,I will go for MRTS before Jaya finishes her term.There are huge apartment complexes+IT +educational institutions.If connectivity is given from tiruporur to Chingelput line it will give an alternate line into Chennai.

I am pretty positive,but right now the middle of OMR is occupied by light poles.They will have to be removed for elevated line.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 18 Apr 2012 11:28

Theo_Fidel wrote:The argument would not have reopened if the Metro lines were not maxing out so quickly. My argument is they could have kept the SG bogies but used BG coaches and kept the best of both worlds.

Doubt BG coaches would be sufficient either. Mumbai is the counter example where a BG system, a metro and a monorail together will struggle to meet demand. Given the density of the bigger Indian cities, they need multiple transit systems. Delhi should start funding another Metro system or plan for additional tracks on the existing system.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 18 Apr 2012 19:54

We usually blame it all on the politicos, but here we have a different analysis by the metro man. Why do we suffer from such analysis paralysis to the detriment of infrastructure development. Too much bean counting is bad for future growth and benefits.

http://www.firstpost.com/economy/there- ... 76988.html

The only possible solution to today’s situation says Sreedharan, is that the bureacracy needs to change it’s mindset and make better and more responsible decisions. Citing the example of the Kochi metro project which he is now handling, Sreedharan said that the Kochi Metro project was was conceived in 2005, during which time the cost was only Rs 2500 crores. “All politicians wanted the project to come up — the communists, the Congress, all — but, the bureaucrats were stalling it simply as a plea that it should be done as a public private partnership (PPP) model — knowing well that in a PPP model no one is going to come and invest unless he knows that he is going to get a return out of it,” he said, adding, “Now, the cost has gone up from Rs 2,500 crores to Rs 5,100 crore. Who do you blame for this? You can’t blame the politicians. The bureaucrats did not take the right decision at the right time.”

Sreedharan said that the bureaucrats should have realised that private entities are after all businessmen and they will look for profits. Hence, they should realise that “Projects that you know are very viable, can be done in PPP but those that have a social aspect — meant to only serve society — and we don’t expect a business return, we can’t have it on a PPP model.”