Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 20 Apr 2012 19:33

happy to see the britards farting in anger..IMHO we need BENIS dhaga of UKistan.. It is about time we downgrade them to the levels of pakees..

BrijeshB · Post by **BrijeshB** » 20 Apr 2012 19:34

^^

I feel a crazy A5 MIRV possibility in future.

When a nuclear armagedon occurs we cudnt rely on any sats for directing ICBMs towards target coz every sats will be either denied access or destroyed within mins of such a war. Hence It wud be better each missiles cud carry their own dedicated sats with them. ie: When A5 MIRVed with 2 or more TN Petals & one among the petal being a 30kg^^ Micro Satellite dedicated entirely for each ICBM is released frm the MIRV, within seconds SAT operates, zoom and lock on to the same tgts being preprogramed already by the A5-MIRVs and guide each TN RV petals towards their destinations and completes their sole duty before being demolished by enemy ASAT.

Gurus.. whatsay

?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 20 Apr 2012 19:42

[quote="kasthuri"]Trajectory of fire: Agni V

quote]
I suspect many of his writings reflects this dhaaga from BR. ramana?

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 20 Apr 2012 19:46

excellent review on Re-entry vehicles.. nice graphs

http://exoaviation.webs.com/pdf_files/A ... -Entry.pdf

velocity-altitude curve from the above link..

note 22500 foot/sec == 7km/sec..

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 20 Apr 2012 19:47

brijeshbji, sats might be a little more complicated than that...

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 20 Apr 2012 19:48

I want to see Agnis launching satellites as and when needed.

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 20 Apr 2012 19:49

i want to see agni's being rented to engineering college kids to design and launch their own satellites .

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 20 Apr 2012 20:15

Totally haraam on BRF.

I wil do a cut and paste - any asterisks that appear are not my doing

Chinese media pick chinks in India's missile armour

The news item is from Hindustan times and the word that BRF refuses to allow in the link and in the news is C.H.!.N.K.S.

"Chinese media picks c.h.!.n.k.s in Indian Missile armour"

Pleas remove the @ in the url below
http://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/China/Chinese-media-pick-ch@inks-in-India-s-missile-armour/Article1-843480.aspx

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 20 Apr 2012 20:21

perhaps BR should allow in the right context of homonym, with a quotes on "ch!nks" [fissure - quite apt here].

yantra · Post by **yantra** » 20 Apr 2012 20:39

Not sure if this has been discussed before, sorry if I am re-posting it, some interesting points:

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/a ... 332940.ece

The mission was so perfect that the missile's re-entry vehicle hit the waters of the Indian Ocean in the targeted area with an accuracy of a few metres. ...

“This gives us the confidence to go in for larger number [of missiles] and longer ranges. But a longer range is not the issue. Our main focus is on induction [of the missile into the armed forces],” Mr. Chander stressed.

Mr. Chander, who also acted as Programme Director, Agni-V, said: “With Agni-V, we can reach all targets of interest from deep inside India. The same system allows you to reach the farthest corners where you want to exert your influence while providing sufficient protection for yourself.” Since it could be launched from a road mobile launcher and a canister, it was difficult to intercept the missile and defeat it while being launched.

V.G. Sekaran, Director of Advanced Systems Laboratory (ASL), Hyderabad, said: “A great advantage in the configuration of Agni-V is that we can further enhance and expand its range. We could upscale Agni-III with a range of 3,500 km to Agni-V in a short time. On similar lines, we can go beyond Agni-V. That is the beauty of Agni-V's configuration. Its up-scaling and mobility is high.”

...
G. Satheesh Reddy, Associate Director, Research Centre Imarat, said the missile's two navigation systems, on-board computers, control actuator systems and mission interface units used the latest technology. During the mission, the on-board computer estimated the trajectory every few milliseconds and made the missile system follow that path. Besides the propulsion, Mr. Reddy said, both the navigation systems worked perfectly, giving accuracy of a few metres.

anmol · Post by **anmol** » 20 Apr 2012 20:41

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 20 Apr 2012 20:59

We know first stage was 90 seconds. Do we know the time for rest of the stages?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 20 Apr 2012 21:07

so, 2nd stage + 3rd stage time should be = start time - 90 - end-time.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 20 Apr 2012 21:17

the chinese built TELAR noko is using, and likely the DF31 will move to using it or a derivative too.

http://pollack.armscontrolwonk.com/file ... 427731.jpg

dinesha · Post by **dinesha** » 20 Apr 2012 21:22

^^^^^Total flight time of the A-V was 1130 seconds

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 20 Apr 2012 21:25

so, at 7km per sec [average?] we need to calculate for 18min and 30 seconds of 2ndstage and 3rd stage + rv time combined.

SagarAg · Post by **SagarAg** » 20 Apr 2012 21:26

Agni-V: China tries to provoke Agni-V fear, says it can hit Europe
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 752380.cms

BEIJING: China's strategic experts and the official media are trying to provoke western countries saying the Agni-V missile has a longer range than India would admit, and it can hit cities in Europe.

In comments that are obviously authorized by the defence ministry, Chinese experts said the Indian missile actually has a range of 8,000 kilometers and not the shorter range of 5,000 kms, as claimed by India. There are signs China will try to pressure the US and Russia not to sell missile guidance systems to India.

"The missile brings the whole of Asia, 70 per cent of Europe and other regions under its strike range and puts India among a select band of countries in the world to possess the technology of intercontinental ballistic missiles," the official Xinhua news agency said in a dispatch published in dozens of Chinese newspapers. Another paper, the Global Times, even carried a map showing Moscow, Tehran and Jakarta among cities coming within the range of Indian missiles.

An expert at the PLA Academy of Military Sciences said the Agni-V actually has the potential to reach targets 8,000 kilometers away, according to the Communist Party-controlled Global Times. It quoted the researcher, Du Wenlong, saying the Indian government had deliberately downplayed the missile's capability in order to avoid causing concern to other countries.

"According to China's standard, an ICBM should have a range of at least 8,000 kilometers. The Agni-V's range could be further enhanced to become an ICBM," the paper quoted another expert, Zhang Zhaozhong, a professor with the People's Liberation Army National Defence University, as saying.

But some Chinese experts have raised questions about New Delhi's capability to actually use the missile.
Ch!pandas pants wetting moment
"India does not posses high-precision guidance system. To make up for the shortfall, it has to buy it from US and from Russia. These counties may be reluctant to sell their most advanced technology," the official China Central Television quoted some experts as saying.

CCTV even questioned India's infrastructure capabilities. "The missile weighs 50 tonnes. It has no suitable loading vehicle to transport it. Due to India's poor infrastructure, the country's bridges and roads cannot bear the weight of the missile". "So far, it can only be launched from a fixed position. Even though it was successful, it will take a long time to build an operational missile force," it said.

In the Global Times interview, Zhang suggested the Agni-V would help India rise from a regional to a world power. China must work on developing defence systems against the threat of ballistic missile. "It is India's goal to possess an ICBM, as the country seeks to improve its status and become a major world player. Without it, India will remain a regional power," Zhang said.

By itself, the Agni-V will not take away China's superiority in this technology, Zhang said. "But for the sake of regional stability, China should continue to develop defence systems against ballistic missile threats," he said.
Ch!pandas spine shivering moment

The Communist Party's main organ, the People's Daily, ran a commentary, "Risks behind India's military build-up" saying the Agni-V development shows Indian's intention to seek a regional balance of power.

"However, in the context of the eastward shift of global economic power and the changing Asian geopolitical pattern, India should cooperate with neighbouring countries and reduce its own persecution mania," it said.

China successfully conducted its first ground-based mid-course ballistic missile interception experiment in January 2010, becoming the second country in the world to conduct this kind of missile defence test, the local media pointed out.

These views, mostly fuelled by experts connected to China's ministry of defence, were different in tone and content from comments made by the foreign affairs ministry on Thursday. The foreign affairs ministry said China was for "cooperative partnership" with India as it was not a rival.
Chipandas trying to mend relationship to Hindi-Chini bhai bhai

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 20 Apr 2012 21:31

There are signs China will try to pressure the US and Russia not to sell missile guidance systems to India.

What about the guidance systems stolen by china from amrika?

here:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technol ... ws/3319656

just to point one.

MMS should actually now, talk about this cheating, lying and stealing behavior of chinese.
quite a strategic blow to them for long term.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 20 Apr 2012 21:37

SagarAg wrote:Agni-V: China tries to provoke Agni-V fear, says it can hit Europe
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 752380.cms

What kind of condom-nation is this! Why complain to the khans, ruskies and the rest. As if these guys do not know the real range. Why has it taken the Chinese so long to realize what was known to BRF long before the launch? I get it! They perhaps thought it would tumble into the ocean on launch.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 20 Apr 2012 21:39

thats what happens you make friends with paki...you start acting like one

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 20 Apr 2012 21:49

LiveFist

India's Tomahawk-like long range cruise missile Nirbhay is expected to be test-fired for the first time in July-August this year, according to the Dr V.G. Sekaran, director of the Advanced Systems Lab (ASL) at DRDO.

This will be, without a doubt, the most significant weapon test since, perhaps, the Agni-III. The Nirbhay, shrouded in secrecy for long, is understood to be a two-stage high subsonic cruise missile with loitering capabilities. Sources suggest that apart from the engine (apparently supplied by NPO Saturn), the rest of the system is fully indigenous.

Indian private sector giant Tata revealed recently that it was building the vehicle [PDF] that will be the carrier/launcher for the Nirbhay system. The Nirbhay will be based on the "indigenous high mobility, all-terrain and all-wheel drive Tata LPTA 5252-12 X12 vehicle", developed in partnership with DRDO.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 20 Apr 2012 21:51

Good to hear from China - all their analysis and warnings, etc.

Validation.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 20 Apr 2012 22:02

pankajs wrote: I get it! They perhaps thought it would tumble into the ocean on launch.

No. remember few pages back? they can't even reach BRF to read the facts.

.

denial of service to public.

if they move over to genuine deomcracy.. then it could be possible for them to know in advance.

so, actually this is a politica message to their people and not the world or us. they are totally screwed, as the people will ask questions, why china did not know ahead.

it is a dependency issue.. that is what we need to join and attack. btw, if this turned out to be liberating tibet, so be it.

Fidel Guevara · Post by **Fidel Guevara** » 20 Apr 2012 22:04

Let's see what we can eventually do with this basic chassis:

1) 1MT city-busting RV, 6000km+
2) 500kT MARV, 6000km+
3) 500kT RV, 10000km
4) 3x150kT MIRV, 6000km+
5) LEO sat launcher for 300kg sats...instant mini spy sat on demand
6) Kinetic energy aircraft-carrier killer, covering entire IOR...1100kg at 6000m/s on a flat-top = 19.8 GJ = 4.9 MT of TNT > 4 Brahmos warheads
7) ASAT launcher for 5-10 guided sub-munitions
8 ) Send 50-100 kg to the Moon, on demand...e.g. emergency supply for 1 astronaut for 1 week.

This should be tested until it becomes the Jeep of DRDO and ISRO...manufactured in the hundreds to bring down the per unit cost. Just swap out the mission payload on top for each specific mission.

vina · Post by **vina** » 20 Apr 2012 22:07

Singha wrote:all-terrain and all-wheel drive Tata LPTA 5252-12 X12 vehicle", developed in partnership with DRDO.

That is the answer to your question on the TELAR for A-5.
It looks like quite a beast . Check out the specs in Team-Bhp Tata Defense Vehicles, pretty neat and top end specs. Scroll down and look at the truck

Tata can easily make that into a 16X 16 bogey and split the cab soviet style to make the road TELAR for A-5 , if the want to go the unit truck and not articulated towed truck way. Problem is if you go integral truck way, you need many more axles to be steerable or it wont go around corners. 70 ft articulated trucks are really not that big a problem.

But I think , the Agni V is best as a rail mobile missile, like the one post that briefly appeared on Youtube about the train with an Agni on it and a sliding opening roof.. Moving that stuff by road will surely attract gawking attention everywhere and will be passed around in MMS messages and photos of cell phone cameras. A Changu-Mangu goods train with an Agni hidden in one of the wagons with a will draw a big yawn all around.

kvraghavaiah · Post by **kvraghavaiah** » 20 Apr 2012 22:32

I feel, this is time to celebrate after hearing so much good news.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 20 Apr 2012 22:40

I question whether the missile really weighs 50 tonnes. Too heavy compared to contemporaries. It's just an official number, it appears.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 20 Apr 2012 22:57

50 tonnes with maraging steel perhaps.

SagarAg · Post by **SagarAg** » 20 Apr 2012 22:58

Very high resolution images of Tessy

http://drdo.gov.in/drdo/English/index.jsp?pg=agni_5.jsp

David Siegel · Post by **David Siegel** » 20 Apr 2012 22:59

Posting after a long time that too on this great occasion of Agni varsha. Sorry for off the topic post.
Canada surpisingly was criticisizing India's missile test on one of its leading journal. But as I was going through the reader's comment (mostly against India), loved to see this note from a German (Anid_007) , posted on 5:31 AM on April 20, 2012 --literally thrashing the negativism spread by the commie chipandas on that new article's comment section. A must read for all BRFites.

@ Mod: Please feel free to move this to 'news and multimedia' thread if is not suitable here

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/wor ... /comments/

member_19648 · Post by **member_19648** » 20 Apr 2012 23:03

SaiK wrote:50 tonnes with maraging steel perhaps.

Or maybe the range was really 8000 km, which the Chinese satellites picked up and so they were the first ones to soil their trousers and run around spreading the news!

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 20 Apr 2012 23:04

pankajs wrote:They perhaps thought it would tumble into the ocean on launch.

Thats exactly what it did, 5000 km away

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 20 Apr 2012 23:08

Something to think about. To be able to conduct to more tests in a year means they have quite a few vehicles in unassembled state in DRDO godowns/storage sheds/bunkers. We know from when the A5 campaign was announced with DRDO team flying in to station to the flight test is about 20 days for missile assembly. Something for Panda to ponder about. Its not like there was only one off A5 lurking in India.
Also the all up system test from launch to fuze shows that the payload has been standardized and is accepted by the community. All those debates are complete/over.
Sun is khush with the outcome.

SagarAg · Post by **SagarAg** » 20 Apr 2012 23:10

AdityaM wrote:
pankajs wrote:They perhaps thought it would tumble into the ocean on launch.
Thats exactly what it did, 5000 km away

It did something else also with the chipanda

This is the statistics chart from one of the Agni-V videos on youtube:

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 20 Apr 2012 23:10

approved by ndtv

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 20 Apr 2012 23:12

David Siegel wrote:Posting after a long time that too on this great occasion of Agni varsha. Sorry for off the topic post.
Canada surpisingly was criticisizing India's missile test on one of its leading journal. But as I was going through the reader's comment (mostly against India), loved to see this note from a German (Anid_007) , posted on 5:31 AM on April 20, 2012 --literally thrashing the negativism spread by the commie chipandas on that new article's comment section. A must read for all BRFites.
e
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/wor ... /comments/

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11:37 AM on April 19, 2012

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To all the fools here pontificating about India's poverty over its Nuclear programme, you need a little bit of history lesson.

India was the most important founding member of NAM(non aligned movement). A grouping that was for non-proliferation of nuclear weapons and did not officially align itself to either US block or the Soviet block, although they were pushed by the Americans towards Soviets.

Even so, they were officially neutral. The objective was to lay focus on developmental economics(Fabian socialism, albeit) rather than on militarism.

What happened to NAM? It was laughed off. Its leaders back-stabbed and the movement forced off the international limelight.

In other words, India and others tried, albeit outside the norms of neo-imperialism, ie, refusing to come under the umbrella of US imperialism and Soviet imperialism. Even in spite of NAM collapsing, India has an excellent record of non-proliferation.

India even tried maintaining friendly ties with China, sans the militarism. So what did India get for its friendly gesture? A Chinese betrayal of historic proportion, a night of long knives. Meanwhile the Americans were busy weaponising Pakistan.

No nukes, then no freedom for India. Its an existentialist question that has been answered by having the nukes.
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5:31 AM on April 20, 2012

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Lots of funny comments on this post mostly from Canadians (not sure how many are real Canadians though - I guess mostly immigrants --but its new global world order--so I take a bow in deep respect -- no offence meant - and I mean it )

So, Why so angry, Canada? That too with Indian missile test which will not reach Canada -- come on, you are second home to so many Indians after all.

I am not an Indian (I am a German) but probably since I work with lot of Indians in my office (Siemens A.G. Erlangen, Bayern) I know a bit more about Indians.

(And please don't judge the country 'India' by those immigrants who settled in your country--though all of them are not bad-- Here, I am talking about Indians who stay in India today and participate in research work with us--we discuss a lot about about day to day life, politics etc among each other and that's how I know India, in a better way) .

Well, as per history, India had never played a role of invader (Google does not lie-check multiple references).

Neither they joined Bush to bomb Iraq to stop Saddam from possessing 'WMD' - (which never was there). Neither they are threatening NK or Iran or neither taking side of Israel though Israel has a very strong military ties (in terms of military hardware R&D and export I believe) with India.

India, always has its own opinion about it world events and never bothered to toe the line of NATO or even Russia, at times--and that needs backbone.

Poverty and dis-order (superficial) in Indian systems?

When you run a family with 10-12 kids, you gonna get into a mess in making your family perfect. So is India, with 1 Billion plus population. There are fundamentalists, frauds, poor.

But is that all? Or all our countries are so perfect? I feel shame, that WW-I and II was the eventuality of some of our past leaders. But I live in a different Germany now and we don't believe in WAR, cause we know (better than others) how bad it could be. But does it mean we wont have military? Noo, at least till the day other countries had armed forces, we won't let our guard down. Same applies to India. simple. Period.

And today's India does not want to take things lied down when you start sh*tting with them. And that's absolutely fine unless your country is planning to do so . LOL

It is one of booming economy and generating wealth in much faster speed and needs safety.

And it also produces doctors and engineers of great quality, and the count of engineering graduates in India every year is probably more than what you have in Canada (or even say in Germany) in a decade ...Google it !!! And these folks participate in all great international industry.

For starters, this will do -- a western documentary, (to suit the accent? ) --view this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBk4Z4q1fEg

and

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 20 Apr 2012 23:13

How hot do the exhaust gases get? Hot enough to melt road surfaces & train tracks ?
The ones at the launch side are quality controlled, but not the regular road/rail

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 20 Apr 2012 23:18

ramana, modular construction could also help in quick assembly.. getting their only takes time.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 20 Apr 2012 23:26

My point is its not only one flight vehicle right now. There are atleast two three available in a month or less.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 20 Apr 2012 23:28

Also I want the burn times of the motors. Its not simple as subtracting from flight time. What is needed is the Second Stage burn time from the AIII flights. Can then estimate conicaal motor burn time from the velocity profile.