Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): 29 March 2012

[CRamS]

One key issue that keeps troubling me is that no one from the Indian media, has brought up the simple issue of "what will Pakistan put on the table to earn this?"

That cannot be asked because the answer is obvious: TSP will put nothing and certainly not their only and vital trump cards against India: pigLeTs and nukes. And India will have egg on its face if it dare stares in the mirror and asks this question. More self satisfying to pretend that there is a Chanakyan strategy in play.

From the Indian side, the sell out is complete, mostly US dictated, and roughly runs along these lines: Ignore and absorb the punches TSP has delivered. You are so big that you can take it, after all, you are not God's own white children like us where every life counts. Make piss with TSP and we will see what we can do. And if you don't, we can make life hell for you. You have enough dirt underneath your feet (Modi et. al), and we can easily make you look as bad as TSP if not worse. And to a large extent US already has with its pigLeTs == "Hindu extremists" narrative.

The Indian elite is complete synch with the above characterization of the ground situation. This suits TSP just fine, because going along with this plan preserves their long terms strategy. They will strike when the iron is hot. Jab Loha garam hai, tho hatodi maar dho. Am I accurately capturing Gabbar Singh's dialogue in Sholay? And you know TSP generals and ISI are big fans of Bollywood.

[RCase]

Enlightened moderation starting in Sindh villages

Could this be a propagandu article intended to show how Pakistan is getting transformed from the bottom up with 100% female literacy and is an En-Mo country?

"What would you like to be when you grow up?" I asked Sakafat, a boisterous 12-year-old girl, while visiting a remote Pakistani village in the Sindh province.
"A scientist!" she immediately replied. "Why can't we be scientists? Why not us?"


The 500 villagers live in 48 small huts, except for the one "wealthy" family who recently built a home made of concrete. The village chief, Abdul Qadir Lashari, proudly showed off his village's brand-new community toilets, paved roads, and water pump that brings fresh water to the village.

[Prem]

Cruel Majaakh
US to cut $50m from aid to Pak for each American killed by ISI-backed terrorists

WASHINGTON: Alleging that Pakistan has for decades leveraged radical terrorist groups to carry out attacks in India and Afghanistan, a US lawmaker has introduced a bill that proposes to deduct $50 million from the US aid to Islamabad everytime an American is killed "as a result of actions of ISI". Congressman Dana Rohrabacher introduced the Pakistan Terrorism Accountability Act of 2012 on Friday 8%in Congress. The legislation would require the department of defence to list all Americans killed by terrorist groups operating with impunity inside Pakistan and Afghanistan and supported by elements of the Pakistani government. For each person killed, $50 million would be subtracted from US foreign assistance to Pakistan, a requested $2.2 billion, and given to the victim's family. Rohrabacher is chairman of the house foreign affairs oversight and investigations subcommittee.

[Prem]

http://ninme.com/archives/2012/05/sex_c ... swear.html
Sex! Crime! Islam! It’s Interesting I Swear!

Culture: Pakistani vs Punjabi vs Islamic
•A quick quote which I found rather sweet (altho hopefully she figured it out):
Sometimes the women, especially those who have come from Pakistan for an arranged marriage, need lessons on how to seduce their husbands. I told one woman that she needed to pay more attention to her husband and she paused and said: “I’ll iron more of his shirts then”. I had to explain that wasn’t quite what I meant.”

[Prem]

Asian grooming: why we need to talk about sex

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/cr ... 34712.html

Karmani is a plain-speaking man. For a Muslim imam he is breathtakingly so. "Oral sex and anal sex are taboo in the British Pakistani community," he announces matter-of-fact way over gosht palak in his favourite curry-house just up the hill from Bradford University. "Sex is seen as only for procreation and only in the missionary position. More so if your spouse is from abroad."He is addressing the question of whether a disproportionate number of British Asian men are involved in grooming underage girls for sex. He thinks the answer is "Yes" – which is also very plain-speaking on a subject around which the British policing, political, academic and social work establishment dances with over-sensitive diplomacy.Many British Pakistani men live in two worlds," he begins. "The first is encompassed by family, business, mosque. It is a socially conservative culture where there is no toleration of sex outside of marriage, and little emphasis on sexual gratification."
Many are emotionally browbeaten into preserving their family honour by marrying a cousin from their family's village in north-west Kashmir, the part of Pakistan from which the forefathers of Bradford's Asian community originally migrated.These new wives can bring with them "an unhealthy attitude towards sex and sexuality". It is not Islam which induces that, he says, but a traditional rural Kashmiri culture."The second world in which British Pakistani men live," he continues, "is the over-sexualised, material and lust-driven English lifestyle, where women are scantily clad, binge-drinking is a mainstream form of entertainment and ***** is a massive factor." You might have thought that, as time passed, British Asians would have found middle ground between these two worlds

Some in the Asian communities resent even this very qualified criticism. Iftikhar Ahmad, of the London School of Islamics Trust, has complained that "native Brits have double standards and are hypocrites [who] don't mention the fact that the they have no understanding of sex in a loving relationship, or any understanding of what is permitted and forbidden in Islam. They confuse Islam with conservative Pakistani culture."majority of men who go to countries in east Asia looking for under-aged sex are white European men".

[Dipanker]

Crams: And I would dare to say that from TSP's PoV, this strategy makes eminent sense. Generosity from a position of strength is a virtue, not from a position of weakness: India's bhai chara decision despite 26/11 and TSP's cock a snook post 26/11.

One key issue that keeps troubling me is that no one from the Indian media, has brought up the simple issue of "what will Pakistan put on the table to earn this?"

The Pakistani strategy has always been "pakistan keeps whatever it has - let's negotiate over what India gets to keep". This whole MFN tamasha only gives access to Indian markets to Pakistanis, who will steadily get shut out of other markets, due to incidents like Rochdale. Sir Creek, business visas leniency, IPL admission, educational access, Siachen are all done without any significant concessions on the Pakistani side.

Peace in itself is not a goal of Pakistan, since it still maintains 42 India specific terrorist training camps within pakistan.

So, what does pakistan give up to deserve all this - this question never seems to come up...

It is because it's own strategy Pakistan has been a historical loser and will continue to be a loser.

It would have been somewhat easier for India to let go of Sir Creek (that is my assesment based on what I have read about this conflict, but I am not advocating it at all, in fact I fully support GOI position), now if we have not relinquished our claim on Sir Creek after all these years, that means Paki are not going to get anything from India. Siachen has been in the news lately, and India has once again reiterated it's position. So where do you think the negotiation goes about Siachen?

I will worry about it when India starts to change it's position on these issues. It's not within MMS power to unilaterally change position on these issues. Recall that he got overruled by Mamata over the issue of giving away a few more cuesecs of Teesta River water to Bangladesh!

[RCase]

http://ninme.com/archives/2012/05/sex_c ... swear.html
Sex! Crime! Islam! It’s Interesting I Swear!

Culture: Pakistani vs Punjabi vs Islamic
•A quick quote which I found rather sweet (altho hopefully she figured it out):
Sometimes the women, especially those who have come from Pakistan for an arranged marriage, need lessons on how to seduce their husbands. I told one woman that she needed to pay more attention to her husband and she paused and said: “I’ll iron more of his shirts then”. I had to explain that wasn’t quite what I meant.”

Damn, next time I visit my dry cleaners and she asks me medium or mild starch .... maybe she is trying to seduce me!

[shiv]

One key issue that keeps troubling me is that no one from the Indian media, has brought up the simple issue of "what will Pakistan put on the table to earn this?"

The Pakistani strategy has always been "pakistan keeps whatever it has - let's negotiate over what India gets to keep".

<snip>
Peace in itself is not a goal of Pakistan, since it still maintains 42 India specific terrorist training camps within pakistan.

So, what does pakistan give up to deserve all this - this question never seems to come up...

I think this observation is an accurate summary of what is happening now. Pakistanis are not expected to give up anything so long as they don't go further down the drain. As I see it an artificial and vague line is being drawn between the Pakistani people/civilian politicians on the one hand and the Islamist groups and "bad Taliban" on the other. Theer are hints, only hints, nudges and suggestions that the Pakistani army/ISI is in the latter group. There are no open statements accusing them. Also ne mention is being made of the grass roots support that the Jamaat-ud -Dawa gets and the money they connect for terrorism.

As far as my reading goes, Pakistan is being treated like three different entities and each one of those entities is not being held responsible for the action of any of the others. For example Pakistani civilians/politicians are not being blamed for 26/11 but they are being asked to produce Hafiz Saeed/Ilyaz Kashmiri. They are being asked and not being pushed or coerced because I suspect India (GoI) does believe that believes that the Islamists and Army, who conducted the operation, are separate groups over which the civilians have no control.

There is no guarantee that any of this will work. There is no guarantee that terrorism will stop. But this is all a process of engaging some segments of the Pakistani population and not treating Pakistan as one coherent united entity and believing that it is internally fissured and that the parts of Pakistan who want to engage India should be engaged separately from the entities of Pakistan who are hostile to India.

[shiv]

Asian grooming: why we need to talk about sex

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/cr ... 34712.html

Can someone explain to me how and why so many people from "north west" Kashmir, or Pakistan occupied kashmir came to settle in Britain. Will cross post in the UK thread in case someone knows or can find out.

[shiv]

Nato supply issue

I have been doing some intense reading about the Pathans/Pasthuns and my research continues. But one fact that keeps cropping up is that Pakistan's transport system is allegedly owned 90% by Pathans. Of course this seems to fit in wah as well as contradict the information that the main transport body in Pakistan is the Army's National Logistics cell. Perhaps the latter are in cahoots with the Pathan lorry lobby?

So both lose loadsa money by refusing the passage of NATO supplies. The real problem may be security. By ensuring security, the Paki army would have to stop looting of supplies by attacking/restricting the very Pathans who attack the convoys under the guise of the Taliban - so its Hobson's choice. If the convoys are allowed to get through safely, then the Pakistan army gets paid and pays off the Pasthun lobbies, but splinter groups will not get loot and they will have to be suppressed by the Paki army. Also if the convoys are 100% safe, then it means that all this business of "Bad taliban attacking convoys" was bullshit in the first place and that the Paki army is fully capable of keeping them in check - so a safe convoy is an admission of guilt.

So if convoys are allowed through some attacks will occur and it will be back to square one while the "Taliban" (LOL!) help themselves to fuel and NVGs from the convoys. Convoys means funding the Taliban and Pakistan army. Not sure why Pakistan is playing hard to get. Maybe there is some internal wrangling about who gets what?

[Gerard]

Can someone explain to me how and why so many people from "north west" Kashmir, or Pakistan occupied kashmir came to settle in Britain. Will cross post in the UK thread in case someone knows or can find out.

Construction of the Mangla Dam. The UK based project managers - Binnie & Partners and Murdoch MacDonald & Partners apparently facilitated migration of many of those displaced.

[Prem]

Crittrers Jitters Fikkars
ShareThisTop commanders discuss Pak-Afghan border security

ISLAMABAD: The commander of Nato-led forces in Afghanistan met Pakistan and Afghanistan army chiefs on Sunday for talks on border security, almost six months after US airstrikes killed 24 Pakistani soldiers.The November 26 airstrikes along the Pakistan-Afghanistan border provoked a major crisis in Pakistani-US relations.Pakistan retaliated by shutting its Afghan border crossings to Nato supplies – and the frontier remains closed.But in a sign of easing tensions, US General John Allen, Pakistani army chief General Ashfaq Kayani and Afghan army chief General Sher Muhammad Karimi led their respective delegations at talks Sunday in the garrison city of Rawalpindi, near Islamabad.“Talks focused on border control measures, and mechanisms put in place to avoid untoward incidents on both sides of the Pak-Afghan Border,” a Pakistan military statement said.The talks are the most significant Pakistan has hosted with the international military alliance and the Afghan military for a year.On Saturday Allen held preliminary talks with Kayani on how to improve security in volatile areas bordering the two countries.Pakistani leaders are also scheduled to meet next week to discuss ending the nearly six-month blockade on Nato supplies into Afghanistan.Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani will convene the meetings which will also debate how to repair relations with the United States in time for a key Nato summit later this month.Diplomats on both sides have been keen to resolve the impasse between Islamabad and Washington before the Nato summit on Afghanistan in Chicago on May 21-22.

[Prem]

Taliban have a safe harbor in Pakistan: Feignstein
http://dawn.com/2012/05/14/pakistan-mus ... feinstein/

WASHINGTON: The Taliban can be defeated militarily in Afghanistan but the job is not done, a key US senator said on Sunday, noting that the insurgents still control more than a third of the populated areas of the country and have a “safe harbor” in Pakistan.Senator Dianne Feinstein, chairwoman of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, told “Fox News Sunday” that Pakistan is key to defeating the Taliban in both countries and expressed frustration that Pakistan has failed to deprive them of a safe haven in the rugged mountain areas along its Afghan border.“Militarily, I think the Taliban are not going to beat us,” she said. But the Taliban “have a safe harbor in Pakistan and the Pakistanis are doing nothing to abate that safe haven,” Feinstein said.hat “the Taliban has done is insinuate itself in a shadowy presence, with shadow governors. They controlled over a third of the land which people live. They expanded into the north, into the northeast,” Feinstein said.What this does is demonstrate to many of us that the Taliban is just waiting to come back” when US troops leave the country over the next few years, Feinstein said.The Taliban “are taxing the poppy in the south to the tune of $125 million, which in 2011 – this is the United Nations figure – went to support their operations.”“The question comes ‘can they come back?’” said Feinstein, who visited Afghanistan as part of a congressional team last month. She said Karzai had assured her he would not allow the Taliban to return to power.

[Prem]

Building Jinnah’s Pakistan
BC, Sach Kab Bolo Ge
THE movement for independence from the British was fought by Jinnah and leaders of the Indian National congress and the Muslim League.

Jinnah echoed the secular sentiments of Dr Ambedkar when on Aug 11, 1947, he spoke of equality among citizens and the right of freedom of expression and worship to all citizens of Pakistan.
He believed that religion was not the business of the state and said this authoritatively. He did not want the state to legislate on religion which he believed was personal to each individual.Did the path we were supposed to take come to an end on Sept 11, 1948? Have we drifted since then experimenting with different ideologies and forms of government?We are a nation with an abundance of resources, a vibrant population of over 280 million with 50 per cent being under the age of 30.The otherwise hardworking and intelligent Pakistani population needs to be channeled in the right direction to achieve maximum benefit from the available talent. Civil society needs to be vibrant and in conjunction with the media, efforts need to be made to mould public opinion in the right direction.
Pakistan needs to send right messages to the US, EU and all our neighbours.Let us stop being dependent on any nation, regain our pride, adopt pragmatic and sensible national policies, control our population, enhance education and literacy, promote honesty and hard work and we are bound to succeed.
Our goal should be Jinnah’s Pakistan which will have no place for corruption, parochialism, sectarianism, extremism, etc.We need to emphasise the benefits of education, literacy, tolerance, equality, justice and fair play to everyone but whiledoing so, we must endeavour to promote honesty and adherence to the rule of law at all levels.

What is the problem which prevents us from utilising our resources for education, health and internal development?

( Abbe Poaq, La Qila and Kashmir kaun fateh karega? Jihad is more important than food,education and development)

[ArmenT]

Can someone explain to me how and why so many people from "north west" Kashmir, or Pakistan occupied kashmir came to settle in Britain. Will cross post in the UK thread in case someone knows or can find out.

Construction of the Mangla Dam. The UK based project managers - Binnie & Partners and Murdoch MacDonald & Partners apparently facilitated migration of many of those displaced.

Brits also needed cheap unskilled labor for their low end textile mills in Yorkshire and Lancashire, so they took in some of the displaced Pakis from the Mangla dam construction. However, these displaced Pakis that emigrated to the UK were only about 5000 people or so originally. The majority came in through another loophole. It turns out that before the mid 60s, the UK also had the voucher system for commonwealth countries, where people already in the UK could arrange for jobs and vouchers for their relatives and friends and the newly immigrated Pakis took full advantage of this law and brought in as many of their family and relatives as they could. Many of the family and relatives took the unskilled low paying jobs in textiles and manufacturing industries. Since the original 5000 or so were from Mirpur area, it is no surprise that the majority of the friends and relatives were also from Mirpur area. Unfortunately for the Pakis, the low end textile industry in England started to go downhill and factories also started closing and many of them were out of a job in the 70s.

[Roperia]

With absolutely no semblance of justice done to the perpetrators of Mumbai attacks and no action taken to dismantle the 40-something terrorist training camps based in PoK and elsewhere, I feel disgusted after reading this article.

In the past we were getting attacked but we were still the status quo power, it seems now we want to 'pleasantly' surprise Pakistan by giving away goodies and then truly practice what Gandhi said - If you are slapped, kindly show them the other cheek!

We should not forget what President Obama said on Kashmir during his election campaign, he may have been told in no uncertain terms to not speak on this in the public but I'm not prepared to believe that he has not lobbied Dr. MMS into resolving the dispute (which again means accommodating the Pakis).

With Cricket, Siachen, Sir Creek already moving forward, I wouldn't be surprised to see some movement on Kashmir as well!

The Indian leadership has truly disappointed the country today. A country that negotiates a piece of real state won after fighting or where to station its troops inside it's own borders to dissuade a recalcitrant state into not attacking it shouldn't have great power ambitions. What a shame!

Agreement likely: India may move troops to peacetime locations

...
Besides pulling back troops, Manmohan Singh visit might carry other ‘pleasant’ surprises for Pakistan and India.
Officials said ‘major announcements’ were also expected on Siachen—the disputed glacier in the Himalayas known as world’s highest battlefield—and Sir Creek — an un-demarcated stretch of coastline dotted with small islands.
...

[sum]

Besides pulling back troops, Manmohan Singh visit might carry other ‘pleasant’ surprises for Pakistan and India.
Officials said ‘major announcements’ were also expected on Siachen—the disputed glacier in the Himalayas known as world’s highest battlefield—and Sir Creek — an un-demarcated stretch of coastline dotted with small islands.

Praying that this is just a TSP paper doing what it does best, making stuff up!

[Roperia]

Pakistan may have to miss future Nato events if it failed to attend the Chicago summit, US and Nato officials said.

There is a meeting of Paki cabinet committee on security on 15th, I expect Pakis to open the supply lines there. Delaying this decision further means no release of CSF before the Paki budget in June.

Militants kill security volunteer in Mohmand check post attack

Militants attacked a checkpost of the peace committee volunteers in Khozai area of Mohmand Agency killing one volunteer and injuring four others, DawnNews reported.

Earlier a clash between an outlawed religious organization and local tribe claimed the life of two tribal men in Khyber Agency’s Tirah valley area.

[Neela]

Asian grooming: why we need to talk about sex

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/cr ... 34712.html

Karmani is a plain-speaking man. For a Muslim imam he is breathtakingly so. "Oral sex and anal sex are taboo in the British Pakistani community," he announces matter-of-fact way over gosht palak in his favourite curry-house just up the hill from Bradford University. "Sex is seen as only for procreation and only in the missionary position. More so if your spouse is from abroad."He is addressing the question of whether a disproportionate number of British Asian men are involved in grooming underage girls for sex. He thinks the answer is "Yes" – which is also very plain-speaking on a subject around which the British policing, political, academic and social work establishment dances with over-sensitive diplomacy.Many British Pakistani men live in two worlds," he begins. "The first is encompassed by family, business, mosque. It is a socially conservative culture where there is no toleration of sex outside of marriage, and little emphasis on sexual gratification."
Many are emotionally browbeaten into preserving their family honour by marrying a cousin from their family's village in north-west Kashmir, the part of Pakistan from which the forefathers of Bradford's Asian community originally migrated.These new wives can bring with them "an unhealthy attitude towards sex and sexuality". It is not Islam which induces that, he says, but a traditional rural Kashmiri culture."The second world in which British Pakistani men live," he continues, "is the over-sexualised, material and lust-driven English lifestyle, where women are scantily clad, binge-drinking is a mainstream form of entertainment and ***** is a massive factor." You might have thought that, as time passed, British Asians would have found middle ground between these two worlds

Some in the Asian communities resent even this very qualified criticism. Iftikhar Ahmad, of the London School of Islamics Trust, has complained that "native Brits have double standards and are hypocrites [who] don't mention the fact that the they have no understanding of sex in a loving relationship, or any understanding of what is permitted and forbidden in Islam. They confuse Islam with conservative Pakistani culture."majority of men who go to countries in east Asia looking for under-aged sex are white European men".

Brit says "Oye Paki, you are exploiting white girls"
Paki shrugs and says "Well that maybe sire, but whats your lot doing in east Asia? So don't take a higher moral standing here awright"
The Paki is not wrong.

[Rajdeep]

Pakistani officer accused of terrorism calls for ties to US to be cut

The accusations against Khan go to the heart of a major Western fear about Pakistan: that its army could tilt toward Islamic extremism or that a cabal of hardline officers could seize the country's most powerful institution, possibly with the help of al-Qaida or associated groups like the Pakistani Taliban. Pakistani leaders dismiss such worries as ungrounded.

Khan, who was arrested a year ago, faces charges of conspiring with four other officers and a British member of Hizb ut-Tahrir to recruit officers to the group including the commander of the army's 111 Brigade, which covers the capital and has been historically linked to army coups.

One witness at his ongoing court-martial said Khan discussed sending an F-16 jet crashing into the army headquarters, though that allegation has been withdrawn, according to Khan's lawyer Inam-ul-Rahiem. Pakistan's army declined to comment on the trial, which is supposed to be secret.

Pakistan's army has has long portrayed itself as a bulwark against extremism, even as it has to sought to harness militants to fight for its interests in Afghanistan and India. While many officers are secular or irreligious, a growing number are thought to have embraced a more conservative form of Islam over the last 10 years, like the country they are drawn from.

Some soldiers and officers have carried out occasional, but serious, terrorist attacks against the institution they once served. Militant sieges against army headquarters in Rawalpindi in 2009 and against a navy base in Karachi weeks after the bin Laden raid are both alleged to have had inside help.

The 600,000-member army releases little data on its enrollment or makeup, so its hard to say whether it is undergoing Islamization. A study last year on what limited data found no evidence the force was recruiting disproportionately from conservative areas of the country.

A Britain-based spokesman for Hizb ut-Tahrir, which is strong among British Pakistanis, declined comment on Khan. But he said the group has recruited officers and would continue to do so.

"We call on the people in the armed forces to use their authority and fulfill their Islamic duty of stopping the political and military leaderships' transgressions," Taji Mustafa said in an email.

[symontk]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turning_the_other_cheek

slight OT, turning other cheek is Christian, not sure why it is attributed to Gandhi?

[Aditya_V]

India orders Army back from attack posts on Pak border?

The withdrawal of troops to peacetime positions is among the first substantial overtures since the two sides resumed peace talks after a two year gap in the wake of the Mumbai attacks that killed 166 people

Pardon me but when did we go to War time positions?

[williams]

This news is reported from Islamabad and not New Delhi. So it is a Paki wet dream that is reported by DDM

[sanjaykumar]

Can anyone cite an example of Christians turning the other cheek.

[RamaY]

Iti Dano-paaya:

Kerry-Lugar bill

Atha: bhedo-paya:

Cruel Majaakh
US to cut $50m from aid to Pak for each American killed by ISI-backed terrorists

[Nandu]

Asian grooming: why we need to talk about sex

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/cr ... 34712.html

So this Mullah is blaming the Paki animals' exploitation of underage white girls on the lack of seduction skills of the much oppressed Paki women.

And the white reporter just buys the whole kit and caboodle with nary a bat of the eyelids?

WTF is wrong with these people, both the Pakis and the white Brits?

[Prem]

Time to ‘move on’ over Nato supply lines, says foreign minister

Naa aid milli Na Drone Upaye, laut ke Budhu ghar ko ayye

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan’s foreign minister indicated Monday the time has come to reopen the country’s Afghan border to Nato troop supplies, saying the government had made its point by closing the route for nearly six months in retaliation for deadly US airstrikes on its troops.“It was important to make a point, Pakistan has made a point and we now need to move on and go into a positive zone and try to conduct our relations,” Khar said during a press conference in Islamabad when asked whether she believed Pakistan should reopen the supply route.“We are trying to put this relationship, you know, in a positive zone and I am quite sure that we will be successful in doing so.”Asked whether Pakistan would allow a resumption of Nato supplies, Information minister Qamar Zaman Kaira, who was also spoke alongside the foreign minister, said a decision would be made in the coming days.
“There are a lot of sensitivities,” he told reporters. “How we can share things with you which are under discussion? We will share it in the next three to four days.”The ministers’ comments offered the clearest indication yet that Pakistan is ready to reopen supply lines, even though Washington has so far refused to apologise for last year’s attack and end drone strikes in the country as demanded by Pakistan’s parliament.Speaking to media representatives, the foreign minister said Pakistan was negotiating with the US and Nato on the same terms that were approved by the parliament for the process of re-engagement.Moreover, the minister said that the parliamentary recommendations had proved that only a minority of Pakistanis were opposed to normal relations with the Western world.Pakistan wants to continue to be a facilitator and enabler for the international community, said Khar, adding that the issue is not just that of relations with the US but with 42 countries that have stakes in Afghanistan.
The government is likely to face domestic backlash for reopening the Nato route given the rampant anti-American sentiment in the country and vocal opposition by hardliners.The move could also, however, free up over a billion dollars in US military aid that has been frozen for the last year.

[Prem]

http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/ ... d-kashmir/
Indo-Pak Update: A Future of Nudges and Hopes

The report, subtitled ‘Beyond Kashmir?’ is hardly naïve about the myriad problems preventing a normalization of relations between the countries. The Pakistani military refuses to stop sponsoring anti-India terrorist groups like Lashkar-e Taiba, whose leader, Hafiz Saeed, lives and speaks openly in Lahore after organizing the Mumbai terror attacks. The regulation of the water rights to the Indus River has been suprisingly unproblematic since a 1960 treaty between the two countries, but with India’s population growing to 1.5 billion by 2035 and the Pakistani economy highly dependent on agricultural exports, one Lahore analyst worries that water disputes could become ‘another Kashmir-like rallying point for Pakistani jihadis.’ Lashkar-e Taiba has already held rallies on the issue; the Financial Times reports that the organization has issued statements noting that ‘India is trying to hatch a deep conspiracy of making Pakistan’s agricultural lands barren and economically annihilating us’, while Mr. Saeed, when not plotting how to kill hundreds of innocent civilians, has agitated that ’The government must take practical steps to secure Pakistani water. It is a matter of life and death for Pakistan.’
Here we go again? That’s probably the case. But the report also provides some room for the one resource scarcer in the Indus Basin than water, optimism. The legacy media’s coverage of Indo-Pakistani relations usually takes place through the lens of Kashmir, militaries, and terrorism, but, the Crisis Group report emphasizes, there has actually been significant improvement in trade relations between the two countries. The ruling Pakistan People’s Party (PPP) government agreed to grant most favored nation (MFN) status to India in November 2011, to be implemented by the end of 2012, a decision that the largest opposition party, the Pakistan Muslim League-N (PML-N) also supported. This decision ‘is not merely an economic concession but also a significant political gesture. Departing from Pakistan’s traditional position, the current government no longer insists on linking normalization of relations with resolution of the Kashmir dispute. India no longer insists on making such normalization conditional on demonstrable Pakistani efforts to rein in India-oriented jihadi groups, particularly the Lashkar-e-Taiba, responsible for the 2008 Mumbai attacks and hence suspension of the composite dialogue.’
Pakistan’s version of the military-industrial complex is a force that cannot be ignored. Huge tracts of the country’s most desirable real estate in Islamabad, Karachi, and Lahore are owned either directly or indirectly by the military. Between the military’s power in the government and its vast economic presence, Pakistan’s clannish, weak and corrupt civilian political parties are not going to be able to change the country’s orientation without military buy-in.Foreign direct investment – whether from India or anyone else – would help grow the economy and stabilize the country, but as one interviewee in Islamabad says, ‘Locally, nobody is investing in Pakistan, so why would anyone in India do so? For example, we have not built a new hotel in Islamabad for 40 years. This is not because we need someone from India to build us a hotel; it is because the military and civil bureaucracy does not want us to build hotels, because it wants to appropriate the city for itself – for its luxury homes and gardens and clubs.’ Liberalizing visa regimes and granting MFN status is one thing; but don’t be surprised if the military sees fit to declare the civilian government ‘incompetent’ and depose it if either the PPP or the PML-N attempts to seriously alter the investment and property rights regime.
Finally, the rise in religious radicalism in much of the Pakistani public (and in some cases also among Indians) should not be ignored. A rise in radical religion generally also means a rise in hardline Pakistani nationalist sentiments thanks to the increasingly tight identification of Pakistan as an Islamic country engaged in a death struggle with a Hindu neighbor. It seems sadly obvious that a significant sector of the Pakistani security establishment values radical religious ideology as both a tool in its confrontation with India and as an instrument to cement its political power at home.

( sowing the seeds of long term conflict)

[Narad]

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 139417.cms

No plan to withdraw troops, says India - The Economic Times

NEW DELHI: India on Monday strongly denied Pakistani media reports that the Indian Army troops are moving to peace-time locations from forward areas, reversing deployments made following the 2008 Mumbai terror attacks.

"There are no such plans," India's defence ministry spokesperson Sitanshu Kar said in a two-line statement here.

"The report published in Express Tribune, Islamabad edition, dated May 14 that 'India may move troops to peace time locations' is completely incorrect and without any basis," Kar said.

The report had claimed that India is likely to withdraw troops from wartime positions on its Pakistani border, where they were deployed following the Nov 26, 2008 terror attack in Mumbai.

It also claimed that India and Pakistan had arrived at an understanding in this regard during Pakistan President Asif Ali Zardari's visit to New Delhi April 8 this year, quoting unnamed military and diplomatic officials.

[harbans]

‘Locally, nobody is investing in Pakistan, so why would anyone in India do so? For example, we have not built a new hotel in Islamabad for 40 years.

Around NCR and major metro's in India 40 hotels are being built possibly every 6 months! Just goes to show how fast the Poaq in the toilet is getting flushed down the sewers.

[Prem]

‘Locally, nobody is investing in Pakistan, so why would anyone in India do so? For example, we have not built a new hotel in Islamabad for 40 years.

Around NCR and major metro's in India 40 hotels are being built possibly every 6 months! Just goes to show how fast the Poaq in the toilet is getting flushed down the sewers.

Since 47, Poaqland has build no more than 6 fully equipped Hospitals .
They did add 2200 Universities in Musharraf time only and the numbers of PHDs grew 4000%.

[Prem]

Yeh shalwar Bhighi Bighi. yeh Aqal ki Batteh, Reality mei aaya Poaqstan yeh Bechara

Indus waters

However, the issues arising in Pakistan by India’s filling of the Baglihar Dam in 2008 and the ongoing Kishanganga Dam arbitration process between the two neighbouring states has placed the spotlight back on the IWT of 1960.Is the IWT – given the changes in demography, increase in the demand for water and climatic changes since 1960 – still relevant as a framework for sharing the Indus waters between the two riparian states? If it is, then the question arises is that why has this issue been recently thrust into the media limelight in Pakistan as an existential security threat emanating out of India? And why did the need arise for Pakistan last year to take India to the Permanent Court of Arbitration over the Kishanganga Dam?According to the IWT, Pakistan has exclusive rights over the western rivers of the Indus basin: the Indus itself, Jhelum and Chenab. India, on the other hand, has exclusive rights over the three eastern rivers; Ravi, Beas and Sutlej.The treaty was essentially an attempt to assuage Pakistani fears – arising from India shutting off the Central Bari Doab Canals at the time of the sowing season in 1948 – of any future Indian attempts to damage Pakistan by either completely depriving it of water flowing in from the Indian-controlled territory at crucial periods of the agricultural season or by causing massive floods downstream.The expectation from the Pakistani side is that India cannot construct any massive hydro-projects on the three western rivers given Pakistan’s exclusive rights over them. And, especially since India has exclusive rights over the three eastern rivers and the freedom to build its water projects on those.This stance, even if it is known to be erroneous by our Indus waters experts and our politicians, is the point of view being projected, through the media, on to the intelligentsia and the common man of Pakistan. The common perception in Pakistan is that any dam-building by India on any of the western rivers by default equates to the ‘theft’ of ‘our’ waters or to handing over a strategic advantage to India that it will not fail to use against us. The reality is that the IWT does contain certain ‘permissive clauses’ that do provide India with a degree of flexibility for water projects on the western rivers. This is allowed on the condition that the essential requirements and guidelines or the ‘restrictive clauses’ of the treaty that protect Pakistan’s interests are not put into jeopardy.The fact that India is testing the permissive parts of the IWT to the full with its projects on the western rivers, in a seemingly unilateral manner, is the backdrop of the recent round of arbitration. It will be unrealistic for Pakistan to hope for a ruling that completely stops India from ever carrying out any water-project on the western rivers. The court cannot take away from India the facility it has been granted by the treaty.

The Pakistani side should instead be prepared for the verdict from the arbitration process to merely seek certain changes by India to the existing design of the Kishanganga dam. The other realistic expectation would be one that seeks joint scientific research by the two countries to gather more data on the claims of the disputing parties so that any final ruling is based on scientific evidence.In either case, India will eventually be given the go-ahead to construct the dam with one or another design variation setting a precedence on the interpretation of both the permissible and restrictive clauses of the IWT that provide for Indian works on the western rivers. Pakistan will have to adapt to the new reality.The Pakistani side needs to understand that India as a country faces energy issues just like Pakistan does. It is only natural that India tries to extract maximum leeway on what it is allowed to do with the western rivers while using creative ways to interpret the restrictive clauses.
The common wisdom in the Pakistani ranks may be that the arbitration courts or neutral experts may deliver a more favourable outcome than what can be arrived at bilaterally with their Indian counterparts. On the contrary, the judgments of the neutral expert on the Baglihar case in 2007 make it evident that the verdict will be closer to India’s stance. This will leave Pakistan in a position where it is not ready to tackle the new implications of that verdict simply because of a lack of research-based data on the subject.
In light of the new stresses on the IWT, a dispassionate analysis of all the options available to Pakistan – including the extreme decision of waging war or altogether doing away with the treaty – would reveal that it is in Pakistan’s interests to work with India within the confines of the IWT of 1960. With this realisation our politicians, Indus waters experts and media should not make a cricket match out of the water issue. It is time for us to change tact. All discourse within Pakistan regarding the matter of the Indus waters, be it at the political and bureaucratic level or in the media, should be conducted on purely scientific grounds based on sound data and research.While the management and administration of the Indus waters can be left in the hands of the government and bureaucracy, the scientific research on all possible issues surrounding the Indus waters must be opened up to the universities in Pakistan.Our research work can be made more palatable for our Indian counterparts during discussions and negotiations by partnering our water research departments and universities with their equivalent in India. Pakistan needs to replace emotional rhetoric and raise its concerns with India regarding the issue of the Indus waters on dispassionate, objective and scientific grounds. Sound and thorough academic research, especially joint work between partner universities in the two countries when provided as evidence, will make India more accepting of Pakistan’s concerns and will help to search for solutions in earnest.Even if this tact fails and arbitration is eventually required, Pakistan stands a much better chance of a favourable verdict if it prepares its case based on thorough and credible scientific evidence, rather than moving the court based on whims and seemingly unqualified apprehensions.

[Raja Bose]

‘Locally, nobody is investing in Pakistan, so why would anyone in India do so? For example, we have not built a new hotel in Islamabad for 40 years.

Around NCR and major metro's in India 40 hotels are being built possibly every 6 months! Just goes to show how fast the Poaq in the toilet is getting flushed down the sewers.

Please feel sorry for our Paki birathers....everytime they build a hotel somebody does a Marriott on it

[Roperia]

With absolutely no semblance of justice done to the perpetrators of Mumbai attacks and no action taken to dismantle the 40-something terrorist training camps based in PoK and elsewhere, I feel disgusted after reading this article.

...

The Indian leadership has truly disappointed the country today. A country that negotiates a piece of real state won after fighting or where to station its troops inside it's own borders to dissuade a recalcitrant state into not attacking it shouldn't have great power ambitions. What a shame!

Agreement likely: India may move troops to peacetime locations

I take my words back. How could I forget that Paki media is run by Pakis and they are only good at making Khayali Pulao. My bad!

India rubbishes Pak newspaper report on troop withdrawal plan

...
"Despite Pakistan not delivering on our main concerns on terrorism, there seems to be an attempt to build unrealistic euphoria. At another level, it seems a ruse to portray to the world community that New Delhi is backtracking on agreements it had reached with Islamabad,'' said a senior official.
...

[arun]

X Posted from the Liberation of Oppressed Peoples Ruled by China and Pakistan thread.

Convoy of the Punjabi dominated security forces of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan subjugating Balochistan attacked by Baloch Freedom Fighters :

Tribal insurgency: FC convoy attacked with car bomb in Quetta

[arun]

X Posted from the Oppression of Minorities in Pakistan thread.

Indian Express has posted a video of London-based human rights activist Peter Tatchell slamming the Army of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan and Pakistani Spy Agencies for gross human rights abuses in Balochistan:

Human Rights Violation In Balochistan

[arun]

Green on Green Intra-Mohammadden religious inspired blood-letting in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, a country that claims it is an Ideological Muslim State and Safe haven for the Mohammaddensof the Indian sub-Continent .

Cleric belonging to Mohammadden Sunni Sect and Deobandi sub-sect is gunned down in Karachi.

Two questions ………….

A case of sectarian Shia versus Sunni blood-letting or a case of sub-sectraian Sunni Barelvi versus Sunni Deobandi blood-letting?

How on earth do those living in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan believe that the not infrequent killing of Mohammadden Cleric’s in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan by their co-religionist's does nothing to detract from the narrative that "Islam is a Religion of Peace" in the wider Non-Mohammadden “Kaafir” world?

‘Sectarian’ target killings? : Deobandi leader gunned down in busy street

[shiv]

With absolutely no semblance of justice done to the perpetrators of Mumbai attacks and no action taken to dismantle the 40-something terrorist training camps based in PoK and elsewhere, I feel disgusted after reading this article.

...

The Indian leadership has truly disappointed the country today. A country that negotiates a piece of real state won after fighting or where to station its troops inside it's own borders to dissuade a recalcitrant state into not attacking it shouldn't have great power ambitions. What a shame!

Agreement likely: India may move troops to peacetime locations

I take my words back. How could I forget that Paki media is run by Pakis and they are only good at making Khayali Pulao. My bad!

India rubbishes Pak newspaper report on troop withdrawal plan

...
"Despite Pakistan not delivering on our main concerns on terrorism, there seems to be an attempt to build unrealistic euphoria. At another level, it seems a ruse to portray to the world community that New Delhi is backtracking on agreements it had reached with Islamabad,'' said a senior official.
...

Roperia. +20 to your humility and ability to accept an error

[shiv]

India orders Army back from attack posts on Pak border?

The withdrawal of troops to peacetime positions is among the first substantial overtures since the two sides resumed peace talks after a two year gap in the wake of the Mumbai attacks that killed 166 people

Pardon me but when did we go to War time positions?

Grr.. Don't you know? 1947. In fact in 600 CE.

[Sudip]

Pretty neutral description of Kargil War by Najam Sethi