Indian Naval Discussion

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 18 Jun 2012 14:33

if its only 270x45 - means we are downsizing ourself to only ADS1 sized carrier for forseeable future and these things need to earn their keep and handle all carriers.

I would have thought minimum 330m x 70m should have been spec size at some incremental cost, so that 300mx60m carrier could be nicely scoped out.

akimalik · Post by **akimalik** » 18 Jun 2012 14:58

Unless it is mandatory to have the ADS built & repaired at MDL, there are other places in India where we could do this. Maybe MDL thanks to its location in Bombay is facing space constraints.

Pipava Shipyard is one such yard that boasts of such capabilities ...
http://www.pipavavshipyard.com/drydocks.html

The Pipavav Shipyard originally consisted of two wet basins – one approximately 680 meters long and 65 meters wide, and the other approximately 680 meters long and 60 meters wide.

The first of these has been converted into a dry dock measuring 662 meters longs, and 65 meters wide.

need to check if L&T have something similar.

SNaik · Post by **SNaik** » 18 Jun 2012 16:12

akimalik wrote:
SNaik wrote:how is the construction of the "Carrier" dry dock (270 by 45) in Mumbai Naval Dockyard going?
http://frontierindia.net/indiandefence/ ... rd-mumbai/

Looks that they have just started...

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 18 Jun 2012 17:11

SNaik I am not aware of the progress only Kapil would be able to tell you that or may be tsarkar

AbhiJ · Post by **AbhiJ** » 18 Jun 2012 18:36

Kamorta was to be Inducted in June 2012.

We are near the end.

Any Updates?

arun · Post by **arun** » 18 Jun 2012 20:11

SNaik wrote:Austin, how is the construction of the "Carrier" dry dock (270 by 45) in Mumbai Naval Dockyard going? The contract to Hindustan Construction Company was issued in April 2010 to be completed in 48 months. Should be about halfway now?

Today’s edition of Times of India says “The work of the dry dock is expected to get over by this year end “:

Navy constructs new dock for its new fleet INS Vikramaditya

karan_mc · Post by **karan_mc** » 18 Jun 2012 21:01

Upgraded INS Sindhurakshak submarine is scheduled to take to sea on 23 June in Russia

AbhiJ · Post by **AbhiJ** » 19 Jun 2012 21:08

Seems Israel has Transferred Some Technology here:

Fabrication and erection of Antenna Room Structure for housing the MF-STAR
antenna for Kolkata Class Ships. The activity was carried out first time in the
country and had to adhere to stringent fabrication and mounting tolerances
stipulated by M/s. Israel Aircraft Industries.

http://www.mazagondock.gov.in/newsite20 ... 010-11.pdf

Pg 15.

AbhiJ · Post by **AbhiJ** » 19 Jun 2012 21:23

This will start with our project 17a or 17 Alpha. There is another order comprising 10 frigates that should be placed before the end of this year and we will start construction thereafter.

http://www.dnaindia.com/money/interview ... _1643987-2

So We are going to have 10 P17A.

wig · Post by **wig** » 20 Jun 2012 08:54

Aircraft carrier project delay to hit naval preparedness Project runs two years behind schedule due to gearbox incompatibility

India's project to build a seaborne aircraft carrier of its own has been delayed by two years, raising questions on the Indian Navy's ambition to emerge as a dominant player in the Indian Ocean region. China is also keen to establish itself in this area.

About two weeks ago, the US had announced its new military policy to station more naval assets, including six aircraft carriers, in the Asia-Pacific region.

The Indigenous Aircraft Carrier (IAC), being built at Cochin Shipyard Limited, is facing delay in the installation of gearboxes for the four powerful engines of the 40,000-tonne warship. As per estimates arrived at by the apex committee of the Ministry of Defence (MoD) last month, the warship can now be launched by the end of this year. This will be almost two years behind its original launch deadline of October 2010.

Once the hull of the warship is launched at the sea, the outfitting is likely to take another four years, hence the warship is expected to be delivered to the Navy only by 2016, which is two years behind its original schedule. Defence Minister AK Antony had laid its keel in February 2009.

In January this year, the under-construction ship was taken out of the dry dock and stationed in the waters without some of the equipment that should have been in place.

Sources said one of the gearboxes had been fitted while another one arrived at the yard a few weeks ago. To get it fitted, the ship will have to be taken back to the dry dock. An Indo-German collaboration that supplied gearboxes for the 5,000-tonne stealth warship, INS Shivalik, was chosen in this case also. The aircraft carrier is almost 10 times bigger. The first lot of gearboxes provided by the company was unacceptable and had to be designed afresh.

The contract was to have around 18,000 tonne of the warship ready at the time of the launch, but it is still short by around 4,000 tonne, sources said. The MoD and the Navy have conveyed their displeasure to the shipyard and asked it to get the warship back to the dry dock and simultaneously continue with other works till the gearbox issue is sorted out.

The MoD had allocated Rs 230 crore for the modernisation of the shipyard. Since a modular-style construction has been adopted, it is possible to work on other equipment at another site.

The primary reason for the delay is the highly complex nature of the warship that India is attempting along with its simultaneous efforts to localise production. India is the fifth country attempting to make such a warship, which will have fighter aircraft stationed at its deck. So far, only the USA, Russia, the UK and France have produced such warships. China is re-fitting the one that it purchased from Ukraine after the USSR broke up.

Strategically, this delay will affect the Indian ambition to have two aircraft carriers in its Naval fleet. At present, India has only one, the INS Viraat, which after a life extension, is slated to retire in 2015. It is 50-year-old and the fighter aircraft on its deck, the Sea Harriers, are no more produced now. The second aircraft carrier, the Russian-origin Admiral Gorshkov, is undergoing sea-trials in Russia and is set to join the Indian fleet early next year under its new name, the INS Vikramaditya. In case the IAC is not delivered till 2015 - which is unlikely as per the present status - the Navy will be left with only one aircraft carrier, INS Vikramaditya.

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2012/20120620/nation.htm

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 21 Jun 2012 22:37

Indian aircraft carrier "Vikramaditya" in the trials in the White Sea has exceeded the required handling characteristics

MOSCOW, June 21. (ARMS-TASS). The aircraft carrier "Vikramaditya" Indian Navy (former Russian aircraft carrier "Admiral Gorshkov") this week successfully completes sea trials of the factory in the White Sea. This was reported by Itar-Tass source in the shipbuilding industry.

"Experts" Sevmash ", where the upgraded aircraft carrier, are deeply gratified that during the trial which began June 8 in a sea of running the required characteristics of the spacecraft were not only sustained, but even exceeded," - said the source.

"The ship operates in the test crew of our Navy, on board are also commissioning team, representatives of the" Sevmash "and the officers of Indian Navy," - he added.

The source said that next week, "Vikramaditya", after loading the fuel, water and food to take a course from the White Sea to the Barents Sea, "where he will begin test flights of the deck on a ship-based aviation group decked Russian MiG-29K."

Previously, the spokesperson of the "Sevmash" Anastasia Nikitinskaya reported that "the testing program is designed for 124 days."

A source in the shipbuilding industry confirmed that the aircraft carrier "Vikramaditya" will give the Indian Navy in December of this year.

As previously reported the official representative of the United Shipbuilding Corporation Alexei Kravchenko, sea trials on factory aircraft carrier "Vikramaditya" in the White Sea, "will test the ship's main systems and components, main and auxiliary power systems, communication systems, navigation and others."

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 21 Jun 2012 22:43

the gearbox maker would be Elecon of Pune, who supply and service the RENK gearboxes in India.
they seem to have a jinx. for the P17 also, a truck carrying one such gearbox caught fire and was gutted when the straw packaging caught fire!
this one is a bigger goof up....the LM2500 comes in 3 models. maybe the model on Vikrant and the model they assumed did not match

http://www.geaviation.com/engines/marine/lm2500.html

SNaik · Post by **SNaik** » 22 Jun 2012 00:02

Vikki on builders trials

MiG-29K flights starting next week.

Nick_S · Post by **Nick_S** » 22 Jun 2012 05:49

amit · Post by **amit** » 22 Jun 2012 06:31

SNaik wrote:Vikki on builders trials

MiG-29K flights starting next week.

Despite "size zero" (copyright tsarkar!

) the lady looks sexy and full of interesting curves hiding a lot of possibilities!

amit · Post by **amit** » 22 Jun 2012 06:33

Nick_S wrote:

From a photography perspective, a lovely picture.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 22 Jun 2012 09:21

ship looks good. only unsolvable problem is its too narrow for a proper carrier.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 22 Jun 2012 14:13

Yes,my point too.The width of the flight deck poses limitations as to ops.The problem is that even IAC-1 cannot launch and recover aircraft simultaneously.It is why a STOVL versuion of the FGFA is an absolute,as it will be easier to operate from our med. sized carriers,cost a couple of billions less having no cats (UK ests),and be cutting edge stealth aircraft,the best that we will have at the time.

AbhiJ · Post by **AbhiJ** » 22 Jun 2012 14:47

DCNS may buy 10% in Pipavav Defence for Rs 800 crore

INS Sahyadri to be commissioned soon

zlin · Post by **zlin** » 23 Jun 2012 06:10

Indian naval vessels in Shanghai

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 23 Jun 2012 08:03

I am impressed by the pix of the Shakti. looks like a smooth and high tech ship...not an afterthought.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 23 Jun 2012 08:22

With a tanker tugging along this must be a long voyage of the ship with few port visits and refueling at midsea .

The chinese frigate out there ahead of P-17 looks so similar to Indian ship , Shanghai sky line looks good at night.

sankum · Post by **sankum** » 23 Jun 2012 08:43

Line drawing of indigenous aircraft carrier.

The takeoff runways are of 140m and 200m as compared to 110m and 170m of INS Vikramaditya. Thus mig29k will be able to take of with higher payload on shorter runway of IAC as compared to the shorter runway of INS Vikramaditya.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 23 Jun 2012 12:16

http://main.omanobserver.om/node/100069

MUSCAT — India’s only aircraft carrier, the Indian Naval Ship Viraat, sailed into Port Sultan Qaboos here yesterday on its maiden port call

Perhaps some anti-pirate missions by our AC

srai · Post by **srai** » 23 Jun 2012 13:53

Austin wrote:...

The chinese frigate out there ahead of P-17 looks so similar to Indian ship , Shanghai sky line looks good at night.

Both have origins in the Krivak.III design.

John · Post by **John** » 23 Jun 2012 21:08

^ Not sure i follow you, Type 054 has very little in common with Krivak class frigate (it is based on jiangwei class frigate).

A Sharma · Post by **A Sharma** » 23 Jun 2012 22:40

Russia completes India’s submarine modernisation programme

The INS Sindhurakshak submarine came off the slips at the Zvezdochka shipyard in Severodvinsk on Saturday, marking the completion of a mid-life refit programme for the Indian Navy’s Kilo-class diesel-electric submarines in Russia.

During a two-year in-depth modernisation the torpedo-firing INS Sindhurakshak, built in 1997, has been equipped with the tube-launched Club-S cruise missiles effective against surface vessels and submarines at a range of about 200 km. It has also been provided with some Indian-made systems, including a hydro-acoustic "USHUS" complex, a CCS-MK radio-communication system and Porpoise Electronic Support Measures. After going through sea trials and firing tests the submarine will be handed over to the Indian Navy later this year.

The INS Sindhurakshak is the seventh and the last of the 10 Kilo-class submarines that India bought from Russia between 1986 and 2000 to have undergone mid-term repairs and modernisation in Russia. Of the remaining three submarines one was repaired in India and the two others are currently under repair in India.

Even as Russia prepares to deliver the last retrofitted submarine to India, Russia’s top shipbuilding official has come up with the idea of a second mid-life repair of the Indian Navy’s Kilo-class submarines.

“A second repair will add another 5 to 7 or even 10 years to the submarines’ scheduled 20-year service life,” said Andrei Dyachkov, Director General of Sevmash shipyard, who is expected to take over as the head of the United Shipbuilding Corporation, which controls 70 per cent of Russia’s s shipbuilding assets, next month. “This will help the Indian Navy maintain its submarine strength in view of delays in the induction of French-built Scorpene subs and in floating a tender for six more diesel-electric submarines,” he said.

The Indian Navy issued Request For Information (RFIs) under the P-75 (I) project way back in 2008. However, it is yet to open a global tender for the submarines. Russia is expected to take part in the tender with its new Amur-1650 submarines, along with France’s Scorpio, Germany’s Type-214 and Spain’s S-80 submarines.

Mr. Dyachkov, who also heads the Rubin Naval Design Bureau, which designed the Amur-1650, thinks the Russian submarine stands a good chance of winning the Indian tender.

“We hope for success and are confident of fulfilling all terms of the tender in the required timeframe,” he told The Hindu.

The Amur-1650 makes far less noise than the Kilo-class submarines, which the NATO nicknamed “Black Holes” for their stealth qualities.

The shipbuilder denied media reports that said Russia was trying to have the demand for the submarines to have onboard Air Independent Propulsion (AIP) system removed from the tender requirements.

“We have designed and built an advanced and safe AIP that generates hydrogen onboard and enables the submarine to stay underwater for much longer time,” Mr. Dyachkov said.

vasu raya · Post by **vasu raya** » 23 Jun 2012 23:57

Can the ShiniMaywa be adapted for aerial fire fighting roles? before somebody goes with a non-chalant NO, wouldn't that capability be of great use in coastal places and places close to large water bodies? as the Mumbai mantralaya episode shows, it would have helped even in 26/11 hotel fire fighting, with big high rises being given permission ...

from wiki,

One PS-1 was experimentally modified for aerial firefighling in 1976 with an internal capacity of 7,350 litres (1,940 USgal) of water.

PS-1 is the older version of the current ShiniMaywa

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 24 Jun 2012 03:59

MoD sits on tender for new submarines
http://www.sunday-guardian.com/investig ... submarines

Ministry of Defence (MoD) has delayed the order for six additional (second lot) submarines to be bought for the Indian Navy. The decision comes at a time when the submarine fleet is getting depleted. The Defence Acquisition Council last year cleared the acceptance of necessity (AoN) for this Rs 50,000 cr deal, which will lapse in August, before which the tender has to be floated. The contract is for six submarines under Project 75 (I), which are a follow-on of the first six submarines currently being built in the Mumbai-based Mazagon Docks Limited (MDL) by French company DCNS.All six submarines under the P-75 (I) contract are supposed to have the AIP (air independent propulsion) system onboard. The AIP is a technology which allows a conventional diesel submarine to operate without the need to surface and helps it to remain submerged for a longer period of time.Four global vendors are in the fray: Navantia of Spain, Rosoboronexport of Russia, DCNS of France and HDW of Germany. India has been operating Kilo-class submarines of Russian origin and German HDWs and has them in its inventory. The Spanish and Russian submarines do not have the AIP system onboard, which is why, according to sources, Russia is trying to have this clause removed from the tender requirements.Retired Vice Admiral B.S. Randhawa told this newspaper, "Two lines of different designs of submarines were supposed to run concurrently and then an evolutionary design of our own, but there has been a delay and this will affect force levels which are coming down. As AIP only helps in underwater patrols, its efficiency depends on the distance from the operating base and also on the expending stores of a submarine has to be taken into account as the storage capacity is very limited."Already grappling with a shortage of submarines, the Indian Navy is currently left with just 14 submarines comprising 10 Kilo-class and four 209-German HDWs, out of which one Kilo-class (INS Sindhurakshak) has left for Russia for overhaul and modernisation.Under the original six-submarine order, called Project-75 (worth Rs 18,798 cr), French firm DCNS is building the Scorpene at MDL. The project is already facing time and cost overruns. The order was signed in October 2005. The first submarine would be delivered in June 2015 and the last one in the second half of 2018, the Defence Minister said in Parliament last year. The government also sanctioned an additional amount of Rs 4,764.00 cr for the project.Delay in the scheduled delivery was due to initial teething problems, absorption of technology, augmentation of MDL infrastructure, etc., Parliament was informed.

For P-75 (I), along with MDL, there will be participation from the Vishakhapatnam-based Hindustan Shipyard Limited (HSL), which will have a private Indian partnership. Hindustan Shipyard Limited was taken over by the MoD in 2009 to build the indigenous Arihant-class nuclear submarines. L&T is already collaborating with the navy, DRDO and HSL in manufacturing the indigenous nuclear submarines. Out of the six, two will be bought from the original equipment manufacturer (OEM), three will be made in MDL and one at HSL.

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 24 Jun 2012 08:36

deleted by mod

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 24 Jun 2012 10:37

Vivek K wrote:National security remains a joke. IAF has no vision for the future only GSQRs backed by sexy CFD analysis of projects to nowhere like the AMCA. The navy works better with domestic products but does not seem to take its undersea presence seriously. Will we say goodbye soon to independence that so many sacrifices were made for?

One south american told me recently that the British are coming back to India again. He said Indians are still too British and english even after 60 years

member_19648 · Post by **member_19648** » 24 Jun 2012 11:12

Acharya wrote: One south american told me recently that the British are coming back to India again. He said Indians are still too British and english even after 60 years

Ya, sure they are, they have to take asylum somewhere when the Pakis take over their country. And Vivek, please get a hold on yourself, you are posting such things all over the places, doesn't really serve any purpose, does it?

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 24 Jun 2012 12:13

A Sharma wrote:“A second repair will add another 5 to 7 or even 10 years to the submarines’ scheduled 20-year service life,” said Andrei Dyachkov, Director General of Sevmash shipyard, who is expected to take over as the head of the United Shipbuilding Corporation, which controls 70 per cent of Russia’s s shipbuilding assets, next month. “This will help the Indian Navy maintain its submarine strength in view of delays in the induction of French-built Scorpene subs and in floating a tender for six more diesel-electric submarines,” he said.

This sounds interesting , a 3rd repair would add atleast 5 years to maximum 10 years extending Kilo life to 25-30 years which is as good as a nuclear submarine

Sindhurakshak crew http://pics.livejournal.com/kuleshovoleg/pic/000s2e8w

Can any one identify the ranks of Submarine officers in the picture ?

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 24 Jun 2012 19:06

One south american told me recently that the British are coming back to India again. He said Indians are still too British and english even after 60 years

yeah and you understood that beautifully from folks whom the Spaniards decimated in way more ways than the Brits did. Or added your own bias into it??

Hell the Brits might think they are less English

SNaik · Post by **SNaik** » 25 Jun 2012 03:09

Teg arrived in Mumbai on Friday, 22nd.

arijitkm · Post by **arijitkm** » 25 Jun 2012 11:35

Austin wrote: .........

Sindhurakshak crew http://pics.livejournal.com/kuleshovoleg/pic/000s2e8w

Can any one identify the ranks of Submarine officers in the picture ?

^^^
The officer standing 2nd. from the left is Commander and in the middle the officer standing is the Captain .

srai · Post by **srai** » 25 Jun 2012 12:21

Austin wrote:
A Sharma wrote:“A second repair will add another 5 to 7 or even 10 years to the submarines’ scheduled 20-year service life,” said Andrei Dyachkov, Director General of Sevmash shipyard, who is expected to take over as the head of the United Shipbuilding Corporation, which controls 70 per cent of Russia’s s shipbuilding assets, next month. “This will help the Indian Navy maintain its submarine strength in view of delays in the induction of French-built Scorpene subs and in floating a tender for six more diesel-electric submarines,” he said.
This sounds interesting , a 3rd repair would add atleast 5 years to maximum 10 years extending Kilo life to 25-30 years which is as good as a nuclear submarine

...

At this point, IN will need to go for that "second/third" repair on at least 6 to 8 Kilos given that the 6 P-75I won't arrive before 2020 (it takes 7+ years from order to delivery and as of yet no orders have been placed ... only RFIs issued) and the 6 P-75s are getting inducted between 2015 and 2018. As per recent news reports, most of the Kilos and Type-1500s are coming up for retirement by 2018. Repairing 6 to 8 Kilos for additional 5-7 years (up to 10 years (gentle usage)) would keep IN's SSK fleet strength steady at around 12 units until 2025. By then, P-75I would likely have arrived.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 25 Jun 2012 12:34

this also means the P75I cannot be a heavily modified or greenfield design made to our specs....much longer timeline.

I would say grab bull by horns and go with the Soryu. get the 1st two made in japan and in meantime have them setup production facility here. japan stuff is very costly because they dont export and hence dont gain economy of scale. we can present that opportunity. their corporate sector would surely not mind trumping the koreans for once!

their govt needs to get pragmatic though.

AbhiJ · Post by **AbhiJ** » 25 Jun 2012 15:43

INS Sahyadri to be Commissioned on on July 21

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 387307.cms

AbhiJ · Post by **AbhiJ** » 25 Jun 2012 17:12

INS Savitri will participate in the National Day celebrations of Seychelles and thereafter be deployed for about two months to undertake surveillance of the Exclusive Economic Zones (EEZ) of Seychelles and Mauritius.

The Indian Navy continues to maintain one Dornier aircraft in Seychelles to provide aerial surveillance for the Seychelles EEZ. Another Dornier aircraft is actively flying from Maldives to meet Maldivian requirements of EEZ surveillance and anti-piracy patrols.

Good Read

How Indian Navy is Modernizing