Indian Military Aviation- Jan 10 2012

rgsrini · Post by **rgsrini** » 20 Jul 2012 19:19

^^ Shouldn't it be "India places order for 6 more C130Js?"

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 20 Jul 2012 20:26

Juu idiyat they are doing meherbani dont juuu understand that

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 20 Jul 2012 20:48

technically under FMS India does not place the order with boeing. India asks the US Govt who uses its internal ordering system with boeing to place the PO and India just pays the US govt for it. technically US can even loan/sell us equipment from existing stock under FMS....quite a well orged system to manage a global network of needy Munnas.

that being said this was expected and more are surely in pipeline....probably atleast 36 more given the um "delays" with the mythical MTA

in the end we could end up with 80 C130J and name it "MTA" for H&D sake.

anand_sankar · Post by **anand_sankar** » 20 Jul 2012 21:21

Minimum 24 C-130Js. Orders will be done before next elections.

vic · Post by **vic** » 20 Jul 2012 21:27

No ToT
No real offsets
No thank you, we are the requesting party
Rs. 5600 crores gone
No wonder they proclaim MMS underachiever

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 20 Jul 2012 21:49

atleast we have a working plane, rather than the MTA PPT.
also looking at the woeful RTA noises, C130J type making locally is a far far target *sigh*

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 20 Jul 2012 22:38

These C-130Js are the special-ops version. The regular non-specop versions are far cheaper. we might have as well gone in for those for our MTAs

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 21 Jul 2012 04:16

Air Force plans, projects leaked

Hitesh · Post by **Hitesh** » 21 Jul 2012 04:44

India should go for 80 C-130Js or Hs as regular military cargo planes while having 12 special planes would be enough. And India would be wise to go for 200 C-298 or whatever version is which has a cheaper operating cost than C-130 which would satisfy the need for ferry cargos of 12 tons or less. India should get 24-28 C-17s. Plus get 4 An-124s. That would completely take care of all of India's transport needs.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 21 Jul 2012 10:54

instead of C17 , a mix of IL76PS90 and AN124 which are both about to enter resumed production next yr might be more cost effective.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 21 Jul 2012 11:08

Here we go AGAIN!

Express exclusive: Air Force plans, projects leaked

The Indian Air Force’s entire procurement plans, including top-secret projects detailing what systems would enter service in the next decade, are out in the open, possibly leaked with the connivance of highly placed officials within the government.

A former business associate of the jailed arms dealer Abhishek Verma has sent to several government agencies a shockingly explicit document that details the names, quantity and cost of hundreds of systems being procured by the Air Force, ranging from armed UAVs to precision guided munition, infrastructure on airfields close to China, and a new spy satellite.

The highly classified contents of this document — several hundred lines of data apparently filtered out of a central database kept on computer systems that are supposed to be closely guarded — has thrown the Air Force in a tizzy. Serving and retired IAF officers who have seen a copy of the document told The Indian Express that the contents were authentic.

Former chief of the IAF Air Chief Marshal (retd) S Krishnaswamy described the leak as “outrageous”.

“This (the contents of the document) is the entire Air Force. Every department of the Air Force is here (in the document). By looking at this document one can make out every detail of what the Air Force would be like in 2020. Any rival would know what is our state and the full capability of the Air Force,” Krishnaswamy said.

The document, which contains the logo of the Directorate of Information Technology, Subroto Park, as well as an email ID of the Air Force, appears to have been leaked in October 2010.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 21 Jul 2012 11:30

chetak wrote:Here we go AGAIN!

Express exclusive: Air Force plans, projects leaked

India is proof that there is a God!!!!

What else can one say?

anand_sankar · Post by **anand_sankar** » 21 Jul 2012 19:47

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/expre ... d/977444/0

Now Mr Antony can order another serious of inquiries so that even the targets in now what is a open document are never met by 2020

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 22 Jul 2012 02:47

^^^There you have the snap-shot of the level of penetration that arms lobbies and their touts have in the GOI and MOD. And this seems to cut across party lines...with pliable babus ensuring continuity across the governments.

MN Kumar · Post by **MN Kumar** » 22 Jul 2012 14:01

chetak wrote:Here we go AGAIN!

Express exclusive: Air Force plans, projects leaked

Former chief of the IAF Air Chief Marshal (retd) S Krishnaswamy described the leak as “outrageous”.

“This (the contents of the document) is the entire Air Force. Every department of the Air Force is here (in the document). By looking at this document one can make out every detail of what the Air Force would be like in 2020. Any rival would know what is our state and the full capability of the Air Force,” Krishnaswamy said.

The document, which contains the logo of the Directorate of Information Technology, Subroto Park, as well as an email ID of the Air Force, appears to have been leaked in October 2010.

I doubt if the former Air Chief has given such comments to the media. If he knew that there is a leak he will better take it up with the concerned rather than commenting on it with someone else outside the service.

Its just that I have better ragards for the former chief than the ddm.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 22 Jul 2012 15:41

Dhurandar News Network (DNN) Alert - Mi-35 gunship circling Gurgaon...

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 22 Jul 2012 16:34

And here are the proofs...(please not to mind my gareeb mango camera...)

sum · Post by **sum** » 22 Jul 2012 18:33

^^ There was a short snippet yesterday in NDTV about Delhi airspace being shut down for couple of hours due to AD radar "recalibration".

Was it a cover for the BMD being set up and was there heigtened military aircraft activity yesterday over Dilli? Any Dilli jingoes noticed anything?

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 22 Jul 2012 20:17

The news papers reported today that the exercise was cancelled at last minute by IAF yesterday. I am not aware of heightened aircraft activity yesterday...

nishu · Post by **nishu** » 22 Jul 2012 20:36

Hi OT But some ten days back C-130J "Super" Hercules Flew above Madhapur (Hyderabad) at very low height may be some couple of hundred feet .
It flew over my office for some time and then left.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 23 Jul 2012 23:11

Antony clears Rs 12,000 crore proposal for 56 aircraft

The defence ministry today cleared a proposal worth over Rs 12,000 crore to procure 56 transport aircraft for the Air Force to replace its fleet of vintage Avro planes.

In a meeting of the defence acquisition council (DAC) headed by defence minister AK Antony, the IAF proposal to issue a global tender for procuring these aircraft was cleared, defence Ministry sources said here.

The first 16 aircraft will be procured off-the-shelf from foreign vendors who will have to partner with a local private or public sector firm, they said.

The next 16 aircraft will have to have 30 per cent indigenous component while the remaining 24 planes will have 60 per cent locally-procured and produced items.

Asked why the state-run Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) was not be involved in the project, they said the PSU was already burdened with projects such as the SU-30MKI production and upgrades of IAF aircraft fleet including the Mirage, MiG 29 and Jaguar aircraft.

HAL has a vast helicopter division and will also be involved in the forthcoming MMRCA project for producing 126 combat aircraft, the sources said.

They said the 56-aircraft project would help in developing a domestic aerospace industry and capability to undertake such projects.

The IAF fleet of Avro aircraft was inducted from the 1960s and are used for transporting men and material. The aircraft can carry loads of upto 7-8 tonnes.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 23 Jul 2012 23:21

Why not just buy 56 C-130J and give more logistics commonality fleet wide , we can lic manuf it in Private sector.

Bala Vignesh · Post by **Bala Vignesh** » 23 Jul 2012 23:27

We can go for the Spartan here, and maintain some degree of commonality between it and the c-130 to reduce the logistical foot print of the new type..

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 23 Jul 2012 23:37

or the ATR is the 130s are too big for this role

a new type would be yet another blow to achieving fewer types

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 24 Jul 2012 00:42

^^^ I am really waiting on some clarity on the USAF report of the lifetime costs of the C-27J.

I just cannot understand how the lifetime costs of the C-27J is higher than the C-130J. Most probably, it is because they have very streamlined operations set up for the C-130J, which is unlike the case for us.

Between the 295 and the Spartan, I favour the Spartan for obvious reasons of commonality. Besides the C-27J is more good looking

Nikhil T · Post by **Nikhil T** » 24 Jul 2012 11:47

Air Force drill ahead of Pranab's swearing-in showed poor planning

New Delhi: It was meant to be an exercise to check the preparedness of the Indian Air Force to prevent a 9/11-like attack when the 13th President of India takes oath on Wednesday.

Instead, poor planning meant that on Saturday, thousands of passengers flying to or from Delhi faced huge inconvenience. Many flights were delayed, others were diverted to airports in other cities like Jaipur. At the time. Mr Mukherjee had not been declared President of India - votes were counted a day later.

The guest list for the swearing-in ceremony at Rashtrapati Bhavan includes top Indian political and military leadership, and some foreign dignitaries. The Indian Air Force was assigned to test its preparedness to intercept rogue air planes. The Delhi Integrated Air Defence Centre (DIADC), which coordinates the use of airspace with other agencies was also to be activated. Jaguar fighters from Ambala and a helicopter from Hindon were deployed for the exercise.

But the plans had two major operational flaws. The Notam, or notice to airmen which informs military and civil aviation officials about specially-imposed flying conditions, was issued only on Saturday morning at about 7.30 am. It declared that 50 nautical miles of air space over Delhi would be closed for two hours between 1 pm to 3 pm on Saturday. Only planes cruising above 20,000 feet could continue unhindered. Generally, Notams are issued at least two days in advance, so that flights can be planned well-ahead by airlines, and passengers can be informed of schedule changes.

The second, and perhaps, the more serious second goof-up happened between the Ministry of Defence and the Air Force. Defence Minister A K Antony was scheduled to return from Mumbai to the capital at 2 pm, after attending the commissioning ceremony of the INS Sahyadri - Indian Navy's Stealth frigate. His schedule was well publicised, but the Air Force did not take his return journey into account.

As the Air Force exercise was about to start, permission was sought by the Ministry of Defence to allow a special plane with Defence Minister A K Antony and Navy Chief Nirmal Verma on board to land at the international airport in Delhi. When the Air Force realised this, it appears to have cut short its drill. The Air Space over Delhi opened to normal traffic by 2 pm, according to records. Defence Minister A K Antony landed in Delhi about 2.10 pm.

Senior IAF officials, however, deny that poor planning meant they had to curtail their operation. "We completed the exercise by 1.45pm. We had, initially, asked for two hour period because we wanted to accommodate for sudden weather changes or other exigencies that may arise in such an exercise," the IAF offical told NDTV. That explanation may have some merit, but if the Defence Minister had not appeared literally on the horizon, would the air force have released air space an hour before it was meant to?

vic · Post by **vic** » 24 Jul 2012 17:41

There is lot of dispute whether C-27J life time costs should be USD 100 million or USD 300 million as USAF added the costs of setting up and running dedicated C-27j bases on low 38 aircrafts compared to hundreds of C-130s in service.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 25 Jul 2012 00:06

Austin wrote:Why not just buy 56 C-130J and give more logistics commonality fleet wide , we can lic manuf it in Private sector.

How much will 56 C-130Js cost as opposed to a much smaller C-27J or C-295?

VishalJ · Post by **VishalJ** » 25 Jul 2012 18:05

Shiv is currently in the US on a weeklong Media tour with Boeing.

Just saw a couple of his tweets:

Livefist

- Preliminary discussions on V-22 on with India. We see a good deal of interest, says @BoeingDefense's Mark Kronenberg.

- @BoeingDefense's Mark Kronenberg says company looks fwd to win for AH-64D Apache in IAF attack copter bid "very soon".

- Next steps for @BoeingDefense in India. Capture Apache and Chinook, and notch up more orders for P-8 and C-17. | http://yfrog.com/ket3gegj

- Here's what @BoeingDefence's sees for the Indian market. | http://yfrog.com/nylyxirj

- C-17 and P-8 deliveries to India on course to begin next year, says @BoeingDefense's Mark Kronenberg.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 25 Jul 2012 18:09

Sounds like you and @erroor are behind osprey.. please post a link that says they have fixed all issues with osprey... or is this Guinea pig India taking up osprey.. it should not be a problem if it is a tech transfer deal still at FMS route. Assimilation galore!

VishalJ · Post by **VishalJ** » 25 Jul 2012 18:15

Not behind anything mate, just posting what i thought would be interesting.

Btw, are we (VeyuSena) considering the V22 in any way or is this all Boeing shoShining?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 25 Jul 2012 18:24

Good questioning there.. nice to know your quick feedback. when it comes to v22, imho/jmt, that our next 65k ton A/C could think about landing them on it.. but, the osprey had some serious design issues... never caught up with any latest and greatest news on it.

Osprey is little heavy, and slightly off aerodynamics, and had some serious problems. may be they went back and fixed it with advanced materials.. not sure about @risk of the single side engine failures, etc. India may not need this puppy in the near future [again jmpt].. unless this has been shown good interest by IAF. IN would be more happy to have a stable osprey but without any inherent risky design aspect. again jmt.

VishalJ · Post by **VishalJ** » 25 Jul 2012 18:32

Oh, Ok! Never hear anything official about either Sena's interest in it.

Is this like old-School underground evaluations & then hata, Sawan-ki-ghata if they didnt like it? or did i miss anything?

My twitterati Journo friend Saurabh is also at Boeing HQ, he just tweeted:

Saurabh Joshi

Indian components in the P-8I http://pic.twitter.com/bm9qGOyg

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 25 Jul 2012 19:15

BTW which aircraft manufacturing companies worldwide build both fixed and rotary wing aircraft? Boeing comes to mind as does HAL. Anyone else?

member_22605 · Post by **member_22605** » 25 Jul 2012 19:35

EADS(sort of)

VishalJ · Post by **VishalJ** » 25 Jul 2012 20:08

merlin wrote:BTW which aircraft manufacturing companies worldwide build both fixed and rotary wing aircraft? Boeing comes to mind as does HAL. Anyone else?

Kawasaki

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 26 Jul 2012 13:44

Ok, Kawasaki and EADS. Anyone else?

Sriman · Post by **Sriman** » 26 Jul 2012 13:54

Finmeccanica (through AgustaWestland and Alenia Aermacchi). They also have significant stake in ATR, Superjet (along with Sukhoi) and NH Industries.

tejas · Post by **tejas** » 26 Jul 2012 19:53

Impressive offset work for the GOI monopoly HAL. Boeing must really respect these guys.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 26 Jul 2012 20:00

^

today I saw a signboard near ITPL whitefield saying HAL-Snecma. anyone know what it does?
there is also a BAE-HAL building on approach road of the old airport terminal...