Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP) : 24 July 2012

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 27 Jul 2012 18:47

ju kaffir, dontju unnerstan djinn-fysicks?!!

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 27 Jul 2012 18:57

British tabloid The Sun has levied some serious allegations against Pakistan over an alleged crime ring based in Lahore that, it says, was involved in issuing fake passports and visas to Pakistanis who would then hitch a ride to the UK for two months along with the Pakistan Olympics contingent slated to go for the games. The Sun claims it has exposed this crime ring and has released a video complete with an undercover reporter who is seen being offered a chance, by a Lahore-based agent, to travel to London with the Olympics contingent. The tabloid claims that this scam offers potential terrorists easy access to the UK to carry out their nefarious designs. Needless to say, this is a very unfortunate way to have Pakistan represented right at the start of the Olympic games. What is even more unfortunate is the way this issue is being handled by those in our government entrusted with shining a positive light on our image abroad.

The usual knee-jerk reactions have been in evidence, with the cabinet labelling this ‘exposé’ as little more than “false propaganda” and threatening to issue a libel suit against the tabloid. This tendency to threaten and run around in a state of paranoia is nothing new for lawmakers — and the general public — in Pakistan who think that every bad news about us is a conspiracy to undermine us. It would do well to remember that The News of the World, a once sister publication, uncovered the Pakistan cricket team’s match fixing scandal in which three of our prominent players were found guilty. We labelled that episode a conspiracy initially as well, just like we are doing with The Sun’s report. Meanwhile the National Database and Registration Authority (NADRA) is claiming its hands are clean — despite some of its officials and agents being arrested — and so is the Passport and Immigration Department. The Sun has also vowed to fight the libel suit, leaving Pakistan hard pressed to find supporting evidence to prove that the allegations are indeed false. So far, it seems, we have only been crying wolf because no legal notice has yet been initiated. We must get over this urge we have to blame all our woes on malign external parties. An investigation must be launched to uncover this stinking mess, keeping in mind that Pakistanis really are desperate to travel abroad and that certain elements in this country have a terrible reputation for aiding and abetting in identity fraud when given financial incentives.
Pakistan has seen its sporting stars’ reputations blackened by the shenanigans of such putrid elements. The fact that we have a Pakistani team participating in the games ought to be reason enough for the government to investigate this matter deeply so that some positive light is shone once more on our team players and the country.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 27 Jul 2012 19:01

Meanwhile, after giving TSP No. 1 spot in the art of forgery, the British High Commission in Pakistan also discards Pakistani FIA's investigative report on the case.

British High Commission discarded the investigations by the Federal Investigation Authority (FIA) in its report released on Friday pertaining to the Olympics-passport scam, which has jeopardized the credibility of passport and ID card issuing authorities in Pakistan, DawnNews reported.

The British High Commission’s report came as a reply to FIA’s letter written to it.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 27 Jul 2012 19:16

Arjun wrote:Wisdom dawns on some Pakis - that the roots of its problems may lie in religion:
Our doomed democracy

Arjun, that was written by Khaled Ahmed, who is well respected, a rare honour for a Pakistani. From that article,

The West was deceived by the Arab Spring. Western commentators trusted that the social-media savvy youth of Egypt wanted democracy as an adjunct of the modern state. Many social scientists also equated Muslim middle class aspirations with a desire for democracy in the modern sense: a pluralist society with equal rights for the minorities and women. What has emerged through polls is that the Muslim middle class is deeply conservative and wants the state to revert to its pre-modern traits.

That is exactly what will happen in Pakistan too.

krithivas · Post by **krithivas** » 27 Jul 2012 20:06

Vulture Capitalists of Pakisatan have sensed an opportunity even in ignominy. There is a bright side (for The Sun though), Thank god it's internet connection does not go through the ever strategically located Pakisatan ....

http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news- ... g-pakistan

The federal cabinet’s decision to file a libel suit worth 10 billion pound against the British tabloid newspaper, The Sun, is a welcome move if the government feels it has a strong enough case

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 27 Jul 2012 20:11

Where are they filing this libel suit ? ICJ ?

neeraj · Post by **neeraj** » 27 Jul 2012 20:37

UK envoy dubs Pakistan a 'global leader'

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 27 Jul 2012 21:28

Paki should now also sue to British Govt. for another $10 billion, it's Brit ambassador calling the Paki the global leader in passport/visa fraud!

Hardly a day passes without the Paki getting its H&D butt kicked!

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 27 Jul 2012 22:18

^^^^

The West was deceived by the Arab Spring. Western commentators trusted that the social-media savvy youth of Egypt wanted democracy as an adjunct of the modern state. Many social scientists also equated Muslim middle class aspirations with a desire for democracy in the modern sense: a pluralist society with equal rights for the minorities and women. What has emerged through polls is that the Muslim middle class is deeply conservative and wants the state to revert to its pre-modern traits.

This is simply not correct at all. The west very much knows what the arab society is like.

Most middle class societies are inherently conservative. What the Arab middle class wants is a more 'normal' and 'dignified' contract between the state and the citizens. While they are conservative, they don't want anyone to tell them what conservative means and how to run their personal lives.

All this empty headed pontificating also forgets the even places like USA are deeply deeply conservative on the ground. The difference is that there a contract with the state that protects people who are different. No such contract exists right now. What protection minorities had was due to the whims of a dictator rather than a social contract. They want a Western style contract with the state, the social/religious component is secondary.

To link the poison in TSP to the Arab spring is a particularly toxic notion, one that is pushed by the talking heads and finds its way onto this board as well in surprising ways. One of the key revelations over the past few years is the world of difference between TSP and the Arab populations. The key revelation has been that that the Arabs hate their tyrannical governments more than they hate America and the west. Paki's are all alone by themselves in hating America and the West more than its government. In fact they use Islam as a weapon to damage America directly and rejoice in the pin pricks it inflicts. The Paki's have repeatedly slit their own throat just to spite the West.

We should not allow Paki's this self delusion that they are somehow fighting for the same thing.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 27 Jul 2012 22:39

Aditya_V wrote: ...

Small correction it should be Conflict with Pakistan hurts UPA's Political Interests more than it hurts Pakistan.

Party and self above country.

But then again mere survival of Pakistan in a conflict/ or non conflict is spun as a Vicotory for Pakistan, like operation Parakram, Pakistan did not win any battle but was spun as great Paki victory by Paki media and WKK outlets

OT in this thread. But I have to point out that your statement is not factual. Appeasement of TSP cuts across the entire political spectrum in India. And yes, committing blatant atrocities and being met with ever more desperate appeasement can be interpreted as a victory of a kind.

Roperia · Post by **Roperia** » 27 Jul 2012 22:41

Congressman makes a lot of sense.

mayo · Post by **mayo** » 27 Jul 2012 22:51

ramana wrote:
Israel's Debkafile Web site, considered close to Israeli intelligence and which sometimes posts reports considered to be disinformation, claimed in December 2010 that Pakistan has set aside two nuclear weapons for Saudi Arabia.

These, it said, are believed to be stored at Pakistan's nuclear air base at Kamra in the north.

At least two giant Saudi transport planes sporting civilian colors and no insignia are parked permanently at Kamra with aircrews on standby," Debka reported.

"They will fly the nuclear weapons home upon receipt of a double-coded signal from King Abdallah and the director of General Intelligence," who now happens to be Prince Bandar, reported to be close to the monarch....

Easy fact check is to google the location and see what is parked there?

Also wasnt Kamra the site of Pakiban attention already?

OT but where is Gagan these days. He used to post maps for the rest of us...

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 27 Jul 2012 22:51

Yawn is reporting that Zardari has formally invited Indian PM Dr ManMohan Singh to Pakistan

Presidential Spokesperson Senator Farhatullah Babar said that the invitation has been extended through a letter sent to the Indian prime minister through Pakistan’s high commission in New Delhi.

The president in his letter also suggested to the Indian premier to visit his ancestral hometown on the occasion of birth celebration of Baba Guru Nanak.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 27 Jul 2012 22:57

SSridhar wrote:
Arjun wrote:Wisdom dawns on some Pakis - that the roots of its problems may lie in religion:
Our doomed democracy
Arjun, that was written by Khaled Ahmed, who is well respected, a rare honour for a Pakistani. From that article,
The West was deceived by the Arab Spring. Western commentators trusted that the social-media savvy youth of Egypt wanted democracy as an adjunct of the modern state. Many social scientists also equated Muslim middle class aspirations with a desire for democracy in the modern sense: a pluralist society with equal rights for the minorities and women. What has emerged through polls is that the Muslim middle class is deeply conservative and wants the state to revert to its pre-modern traits.
That is exactly what will happen in Pakistan too.

Khaled Ahmed has long been a pillar of modernist thinking and clarity of expression. This article deserves to be in the BRF TSP thread permanent archive for the sake of reference.

ranjbe · Post by **ranjbe** » 27 Jul 2012 23:45

This weeks Ittefaq Nama in TFT is more hilarious than usual. Snippets:

Then generals said we want your finance minister Hafeez Sheikh to be caretaker PM. Zardari said, "surely, surely" and winked at party faithful to start objecting to Hafeez Sheikh as caretaker PM. I kept looking at this droma and thinking that Zardari is like that Marlo Brando who has cat sitting on his lap and while doing loving of cat he is quitely planning all sorts of bad things. I think so it was in fillum called Dadaji or Grandfather or something like that, hain ji.

Then outgoing US ambassador came to say Allah hafiz to me. He started by thanking me and paying me compliment. He said, "Mr Sharif, I want to thank you. You've been an opposition stalwart and together you and the judges have worked hard and achieved something incredible. You took something that was in terrible shape and you have brought it back from the brink of disaster: the Pakistan People's Party". I smilingly said, "you're welcome, Your Highness" but Shbaz Saab began to show eyes to me. To change subject and to mollify present company, I said to US ambassador that when I become PM, in interests of regional peace, I will rename all of Pakistan's ballistic missiles. I will call them "general", because they don't work and they can't be fired, hain ji

Roperia · Post by **Roperia** » 28 Jul 2012 01:06

Zardari formally invites Manmohan to visit Pakistan | Yawn

Get ready for Dr. MMS's last hurrah as the PM.

Ardeshir · Post by **Ardeshir** » 28 Jul 2012 01:16

Not sure if this has been posted before, but I suspect Maulana saab is likely to be sent a crate of mangoes soon.

Roperia · Post by **Roperia** » 28 Jul 2012 01:20

After the House of Representatives, US Senate too passes bill pushing Obama administration to slap the terrorist label on Pakistan based Haqqani network

It would be difficult for President Obama to not sign the bill in an election year.

We already know from Admiral Mullen's testimony last year that Haqqani network is a veritable arm of the ISI and if now this bill gets signed, of which there is a substantial chance, what will the pious pakjabi military jairnals of Rawalpindi do?

I know the answer, Pakistan has lost 4000000000000000 people, 350000000 troops and $70000000000000000000000000000000s fighting America's War on Terror.

member_22872 · Post by **member_22872** » 28 Jul 2012 01:26

Roperia ji, where there is will there is a way, goes both ways. Depends entirely on what Ombaba wants and how TSP lobby plays its cards. For example Ombaba's administration distanced itself from Mullen's statements on ISI.

Roperia · Post by **Roperia** » 28 Jul 2012 01:31

venug ji,

Senate has folks like. Mr. John Kerry and Mr. Richard Lugar (the two co-authors of Kerry-Lugar bill) who are soft on TSP and believe billions of $s in US aid will make the pious military jairnals forget their Islamic urge to do Jihad and instead align with America.

The bill passing the senate means Pakistani lobbyists failed big time this time.

White House is comparatively more pragmatic.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 28 Jul 2012 02:01

neeraj wrote:UK envoy dubs Pakistan a 'global leader'

in IT.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 28 Jul 2012 02:21

Roperia wrote:After the House of Representatives, US Senate too passes bill pushing Obama administration to slap the terrorist label on Pakistan based Haqqani network

It would be difficult for President Obama to not sign the bill in an election year.

We already know from Admiral Mullen's testimony last year that Haqqani network is a veritable arm of the ISI and if now this bill gets signed, of which there is a substantial chance, what will the pious pakjabi military jairnals of Rawalpindi do?

I know the answer, Pakistan has lost 4000000000000000 people, 350000000 troops and $70000000000000000000000000000000s fighting America's War on Terror.

wake me up when this happens. People who fall for the US propaganda that it has such power over Pakistan

sukhish · Post by **sukhish** » 28 Jul 2012 03:15

pakistan will take some action in north waziristan and that will cool the U.S up. U.S president has 30 days of veto the bill, if he does not veto it, it becomes the law. I don't think obama can veto it in an election year.

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 28 Jul 2012 03:23

sukhish wrote:pakistan will take some action in north waziristan and that will cool the U.S up. U.S president has 30 days of veto the bill, if he does not veto it, it becomes the law. I don't think obama can veto it in an election year.

and all this hoopla for calling Haqqani group as terrorists and THAT is somehow worth pondering over

All it does is name board change.

member_23370 · Post by **member_23370** » 28 Jul 2012 04:25

exactly..

tejas · Post by **tejas** » 28 Jul 2012 06:55

Theo what are you talking about? Recent polls in Egypt show the majority of the population wants their legal system to use Saudi Barbaria as its template. Unfortunately in the Islamic world the story is universally the same. Degeneration into mindless 6th century savagery that masquerades as religion. The inevitable can only be temporarily delayed by military dictatorships as in the middle east or by threats of military intervention as in Turkey. True Islam is back, after a temporary absence, in many Arab countries. The death of freedom, intellectual pursuits and whatever minimal religious minorities that exist will inevitably follow. Much like the laws of thermodynamics, these laws cannot be proven but have never been disproven.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 28 Jul 2012 07:14

Mast Gul escorted to LoC after shrine siege: Jaswant

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 28 Jul 2012 08:21

Roperia wrote:Zardari formally invites Manmohan to visit Pakistan | Yawn

Just to add to the above, from Anita Joshua's report

Guru Nanak Jayanti falls on November 28 this year, by when the second round of the composite dialogue will have been wrapped up.

Besides projecting such a visit as a morale booster for the advocates of better relations, the date proposed is evidently aimed at projecting a soft image of Pakistan as opposed to a country where the minorities are under threat.

One would not know whether Zardari would be even in power on Nov. 28 this year. Besides, this is purely a self-serving invitation for Zardari and PPP. How can an Indian PM have a summit meeting with a lame duck Pakistani President, even if by some miracle Zardari continues to be in power ?

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 28 Jul 2012 09:35

Why Nov 28, can he shift it to Nov 26, so we can praise Pakistan even more on that day.

Regrding Political interests and conflict with pakistan, nobody is willing to admit the following Elephants in the room

1) Pakistan had Nuclear weapons by 1987 with World powers conniving for it.

2) The same world powers were actively ensuring we have no such capability, 1998 Pokran was a game changer in this regard, credit to leaders who tested and those before that for keeping the programme going and having some deploy-able weapons in 1989 when Pakistan wanted to Nuke us.

3) A Public acknowledgement that Pakistan was ready to Nuke India in 1989 thinking we were Nuke Nood and go for Hiroshima Nagaski type surrender from India. This colossal failure by our leaders before that listening to International pressure must be acknowledged.

4) India does not have deceive Military edge against Pakistan thanks to a few reasons

i) We do not have the required investment in Defense production infrastructure to mass produce offensive weapons

ii) We do not want to fund, maintain and encourage such an industry(and related industries like Telecom, chipmaking etc) within the country which we desperately need and will take atleast 20 years to develop

ii) Point i and ii is against the interests Arms agent lobby with significant influence in decision making powers in the nation and would like to keep us that way

iii) International powers also do not like to sell us weapons in quantities that will give a significant edge

iv) International powers are even willing to fund from thier pocket TSP to keep some sort of balance so that it can keep its game going, like 500 AMRAAMS and F-16, JF-17 and SD10 missiles.

5) Simply Purchasing weapons from all and Sundry is not going to buy us influence in the world, I keep seeing posts lets give X contracts to France, they will not sell to Pakis, Y contract to UK- Germany, Z contract to USA, AA contract to Russia, AB contract to Ukraine, AC contract to Italy, AD contract to Sweden, AE contract to South Korea republic etc etc. Truth all these countries do sell to Pakis and infact use our weapons purchases to further development in weapons which may be sold to Pakis.

I am not against imports per say especially when do not have the tech, but do we need to import stuff like baretta SMG's and AK variants??

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 28 Jul 2012 10:14

Guys, question on this Haqqani BS. The pro-TSP US pundits aver that if Haqqanis are labeled a terrorist org which it is, then TSP also becomes one given that both are bed mates. So they caution that TSP is US's munna and calling it terrorist is not prudent since such a move forces all kinds of sanctions yada yada on TSP Munna (big baaad Hindu India will become too uppity). But my question is this. US has already labeled Kiynai's Munnas, the pigLeTs as terrorists. Why then has this label on pigLeTs not resulted in Kiyani & Co also getting the same label? After all, US itself many a times has said that pigLLeTs are Kiyani's proxies. So will US find a way of giving Haqqani the label but sparing Kiyani Munna?

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 28 Jul 2012 11:06

Kiyani have been in seclusion for the last few weeks after receiving the app-ology from USA. India should expect the unexpected and keep the tight vigil. Terrorist attack is almost due to put lipstick on Paki Honey & Darling

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 28 Jul 2012 11:14

CRamS wrote:Guys, question on this Haqqani BS. The pro-TSP US pundits aver that if Haqqanis are labeled a terrorist org which it is, then TSP also becomes one given that both are bed mates. So they caution that TSP is US's munna and calling it terrorist is not prudent since such a move forces all kinds of sanctions yada yada on TSP Munna (big baaad Hindu India will become too uppity). But my question is this. US has already labeled Kiynai's Munnas, the pigLeTs as terrorists. Why then has this label on pigLeTs not resulted in Kiyani & Co also getting the same label? After all, US itself many a times has said that pigLLeTs are Kiyani's proxies. So will US find a way of giving Haqqani the label but sparing Kiyani Munna?

CRamS, you have raised a very pertinent question. LeT is used by the US only to pressurize TSP whenever it needs to. The US had been aware of LeT's terror camps (testimony of the French terrorist Willy Brigitte) and had turned a blind eye (or even approved it, perhaps). We also know that the US was aware of Headley's LeT activities but chose to turn a blind eye once again. LeT, all said and done, does not target the Americans the same way that Haqqani does. Besides, why should the US declare Pakistan as a terrorist country based on LeT's terrorism activities against India ? OTOH, the Afghan Taliban cannot run the terror campaign against the US/NATO/ISAF without Haqqani. The Americans are frustrated by that because they have a set deadline. Both Pakistan, and its protege Haqqanis, are thwarting the American plans by preventing an effective dialogue between the US and the Taliban. Not only that, the Haqqanis will be a threat in the future too, for the remnant US forces that will be stationed there after the US largely leaves Afghanistan. There will be no way this small force would be able to prevent the Taliban story from being repeated. The US is naturally far more worried about the Haqqani Shura.

partha · Post by **partha** » 28 Jul 2012 11:18

^
Why would (should) US bother to declare Pakistan a terrorist country when India (biggest victim of Pak terror) itself hasn't done so?

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 28 Jul 2012 11:35

^ I am finding this a bit ironic. But the clamor behind all the noise emanating on India-US-Paki relations from the Indian side is the US should be doing more..and yes even militarily doing something about the Paki nuisance. This background clamor has been going around for sometime and is something to be detected similar to what Astrophysicists detect Supernovas exploding in some distant galaxy..yet the inevitable is the US must in some way protect Indic Dharma. The clamor will only get louder, and my guess is slowly and surely the US will succumb to this. Direct attacks or indirect ones that Paki's specialize mostly may claim more Indian lives, but yes the pressure is on US too to do something. The geopolitics of India and it's Dharmic heritage will keep demanding so. If Lakshmi and Saraswati have been welcomed in the US, why not Kalki too? Try and think about this aspect. We may be the real outsourcers here..

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 28 Jul 2012 11:37

So India declares TSP as terrorist state. Then what. Its not like we have enough clout to sanction pakistan so it hurts them. Besides without US aid pak would not be the terrorist state that it is today.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 28 Jul 2012 11:50

SS,

My question was more about US law rather than US perfidy which you address. US law states that if Haqqanis are a terrorist org, then TSP also becomes one however much Uneven types might argue against India. In other words, its the rule of law, hich US holds sacrosanct domestically. Thats why the same Uneven types caution against US labeling the Haqqanis as terrorist. So far so good. But how was US able to circumvent the same rule from kicking in, in the case of pigLeTs? Even there, US has declared pigLeTs as terrorist, and US has time and again said pigLeTs are Kiyani's treasured proxies? So how did Kiyani (TSP) escape the terrorist label?

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 28 Jul 2012 12:02

And i bet, the moment the US declares Paki's a terrorist state, we'll have Mulayam, Digvijay, Mamta, the commies, A Roy, S Swamy types all declaring India will be with Pakistan if US dares attack Pakistan. Anyone wants to dispute this?

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 28 Jul 2012 12:44

^I will exclude S.Swamy from that list.

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 28 Jul 2012 12:52

Aditya_V wrote:But hasn't this technology of water driven cars been there for atleast 10 years, only thing is nobody has made a commercial sucess of it for various reasons.

The Truth About Water-Powered Cars: Mechanic's Diary

Paki is copying something aldready there and claiming it to be his own, like buying Chinese and painting it in green

Water driven automobile technology is actually over 100 years old. For instance, there was the Stanley Steamer. They once held the automobile speed record (any fuel type) for 5 years straight. The same record was not beaten by any other water powered automobile until 2009!
Here's noted car collector Jay Leno driving one:

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 28 Jul 2012 13:01

Gus wrote:So India declares TSP as terrorist state. Then what. Its not like we have enough clout to sanction pakistan so it hurts them. Besides without US aid pak would not be the terrorist state that it is today.

True, paki will turn around and declare us a terrorist state. The whole thing will then descend to the level of an ugly street brawl.