West Asia News and Discussions

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devesh
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby devesh » 11 Dec 2012 02:44

one must admire the Islamics for their ruthless pursuit of their end goal.

Meshaal's antics should not be dismissed as "crackpot"/"nutjob" nonsense. the Sunnis are in a euphoric stage right now. even on the world stage, they are ruling the roost. they've successfully hitched the West/UN to their goals and now everybody is clamoring for the "legitimate rebellion" of what is essentially a Sunni Islamic Jihadi consolidation. during this "upswing", any and all rhetoric by any and all Sunni frontmen will pass through the necessary "forgive and forget" filters of the West and the non-Muslim world. so Meshaal's recent statement that not a single Jew belongs in Israel, while it will be condemned by the usual sources, it will not be condemned or eviscerated to the level necessary to point out just how heinous his suggestion is. so, indirectly, his rhetoric will receive much softer treatment than it otherwise would or should have.

form now on, any statement by any Sunni strongman which is not as "radical" as Meshaal's will immediately receive the "moderate" treatment b/c guess what Meshaal's statement is "radical", so anything less has to be less "radical"....they are framing the argument in their favor. this is not some mindless "frothing at the mouth" as we'd like to believe. it is good tactical strategy that helps in moving the strategic goalposts by acclimating people to the "radical" rhetoric to get them used to the 'new normal'. it slowly shifts the barometer towards the Islamics.

devesh
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby devesh » 11 Dec 2012 05:45

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2 ... rebels_win

Don't Let the Syrian Rebels Win


It may well be true, as recent news reports tell us, that Bashar al-Assad's regime in Damascus, increasingly desperate in the face of an unrelenting rebel onslaught, is prepared to use chemical weapons against its own citizens. The Syrian leader himself, all the main power brokers in his government, and virtually all of the country's military officer corps come from a long-persecuted minority that legitimately fears that this war is a matter of "kill or be killed" for the Alawites, who make up around 12 percent of Syria's population. The Alawites left what is now Iraq a millennium ago and settled in the dusty hills of northwest Syria overlooking the Mediterranean. A doubly heretical sect in the eyes of orthodox Sunni Muslims -- as an offshoot of Shiite Islam -- the Alawites lived an isolated existence for centuries as their religion evolved to reflect various folk traditions.

The Alawites have few defenders in the Arab world, both because of the unorthodox nature of their religion and because of the horrible nature of the Baathist regime they have controlled since the 1960s. Nor does it help that they are widely seen as pawns of Iranian interests in the region. The regime's fall -- which is still far from certain -- will not be widely mourned in the Arab world, outside of Tehran and in Hezbollah circles.

The fall of the House of Assad will likely be celebrated by many in the West. But banking on the well-heeled Syrian expatriate community to come to power for any length of time is a losing bet. The exiles may have won the support of the Obama administration and others, but have little chance of holding power in Syria for any length of time, barring international occupation of the country. And nobody thinks the United States has any appetite to occupy another Arab country militarily, even for a relatively short period of time.

In other words, forget about the expats. The people that will ultimately take power in Syria are the armed men who control the country's streets, villages, and towns right now. They do not speak with a single voice, and are often people just looking to protect their families and communities from the Assads' onslaught. As for the rebel "Free Syrian Army," it is no army at all in the sense of having any kind of command and control over its constituent units.

What about the budding terrorist groups we hear so often about? The specter of foreign jihadis -- al Qaeda and its fellow travellers -- infiltrating the Syrian opposition and coming to power in Damascus is a silly, unrealistic notion promoted by those overeager to send in the U.S. Marines to Latakia. There is little evidence that foreign jihadis represent anything more than a sliver of those fighting the Assad regime.

But Syria does not need foreign jihadis and radical Islamists -- it has more than enough of the home-grown variety. This is where people so often miss the nature of Syria's Muslim Brotherhood, easily the most coherent political force in Syria's opposition today. It is an organization stuck in a time warp from 1982, when it lost the last round of Syria's long civil war, and has been waiting for its chance at revenge. Syria's Muslim Brotherhood is not like its analogues in Egypt, Tunisia, Jordan, or Morocco; it has not been part of the political process for decades, "tamed" by having to get its hands dirty in the everyday stuff of politics. It has been a capital offense to be a member or give any support to the Muslim Brotherhood in Syria for three decades. As a result, the organization is secretive and opaque, and it's not clear how much its cadres inside the country interact with its exiled leadership.

Many of the fighters currently battling the Syrian regime honed their guerrilla skills in Iraq, learning urban combat techniques fighting Americans in Iraq from 2003 to 2007. Those who were not killed in Iraq made their way back to Syria (the largest entry point for foreign jihadis entering Iraq during that war), and have taken up arms against their own regime. Their ability to kill a large number of regime forces from the outset of this current round of civil war is indicative of the skill set they already possessed 19 months ago. The body count of 4:1 during the early months of this civil war -- that is, four opponents killed for every soldier killed -- is quite good for unorganized insurgent groups.

In fact, the insurgents might be too good. Neither Syria nor the region would be well served by a decisive victory by either the Assad regime or by the opposition. Breathless supporters of Syria's revolution need to be careful what they wish for. The most powerful elements of Syria's armed opposition would almost certainly be no friend of liberal democracy were they to seize power for themselves. Consider this: The dissidents who brought down autocratic governments in Egypt and Tunisia, even the political Islamists among them, were far more politically liberal than what we see in Syria. And look at those countries now.

What, then? It is not fashionable to say so, but a negotiated outcome remains the best solution to end the killing and prevent the worst elements from either side ruling Syria. An outright opposition victory would likely produce a momentary air of euphoria before the steep decline toward autocracy and darkness begin.


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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Pranav » 11 Dec 2012 08:01

THE United States is launching a covert operation to send weapons to Syrian rebels for the first time as it ramps up military efforts to oust President Bashar al-Assad.

Mortars, rocket-propelled grenades and anti-tank missiles will be sent through friendly Middle Eastern countries already supplying the rebels, according to well-placed diplomatic sources.

http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/new ... 173125.ece

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Philip » 11 Dec 2012 08:24

The US is being shafted again by the ungodly Islamist radicals.It is amazing to see the US repeat its mistakes time and time again.Have they learnt nothing from Osama Bin laden and Al Q who were once its favoured CIA stormtroopers? The cretins,iidiots and morons in the White House along with their "Boss",planning to send arms to the rebels in covert ops should think again and re-examine their whole Middle east foreign policy.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... group.html

Syrian rebels defy US and pledge allegiance to jihadi group
Rebel groups across Syria are defying the United States by pledging their allegiance to a group that Washington will designate today a terrorist organization for its alleged links to al-Qaeda.

A total of 29 opposition groups, including fighting "brigades" and civilian committees, have signed a petition calling for mass demonstrations in support of Jabhat al-Nusra, an Islamist group which the White House believes is an offshoot of al-Qaeda in Iraq.

The petition is promoting the slogan "No to American intervention, for we are all Jabhat al-Nusra" and urges supporters to "raise the Jabhat al-Nusra flag" as a "thank you".

"These are the men for the people of Syria, these are the heroes who belong to us in religion, in blood and in revolution," read a statement widely circulated on Syrian opposition Facebook pages.

Jabhat al-Nusra made its mark early this year with a string of suicide bombings, a tactic it continues to use. Aided by fighters from abroad and Syrians who have returned from other wars in the Middle East, it has also led battles for a number of military bases and has secured a string of recent victories. Along with allied jihadist groups, it captured the Sheikh Suleiman base west of Aleppo yesterday morning, and has also dented the infrastructure of the regime in the Syrian capital, Damascus.

Although Jabhat al-Nusra remains separate from the Free Syrian Army, many FSA leaders now recognise its strength and order their forces to cooperate with it.
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The decision to blacklist the group, which according to the Washington Post will be announced today, raises the prospect of a drawn-out, anti-American insurgency if and when the rebels succeed in forcing out President Bashar al-Assad .

The designation prohibits Americans from having any financial dealings with the group and freezes its assets in the US. Washington is taking the step as part of a new strategy to impose "shape" on the opposition it hopes will replace Mr Assad.

Even mainstream opposition activists expressed anger at what they claimed was America's last-minute attempt to "muscle in on their revolution".

"It is terrible timing on the part of the United States," said Mulham Jundi, who works with the opposition charity Watan Syria. "By calling Jabhat al-Nusra terrorists, the US is legitimising the Syrian regime's bombardment of cities like Aleppo. Now the government can say it is attacking terrorists."

The rise of Jabhat al-Nusra represents the Americans' worst fear – they refused to arm the rebels earlier in the conflict to avoid weapons falling into the hands of jihadists, only to find that in their absence, jihadi groups well-funded by supporters in the Gulf have risen to prominence.

The West attempted to rectify this at the weekend by backing the formation of a new FSA command structure at a meeting in Turkey. Its new leadership, which sidelines former commanders such as Gen Mustafa al-Sheikh and Col Riad al-Assad, includes senior figures without a regime background. Many are linked to the Muslim Brotherhood or even more radical Salafi movements, but are thought to be men with whom the West "can do business".

The command is seen as a prospective military wing of the new Syrian National Coalition, formed last month also under Western auspices in Qatar.

EU leaders including William Hague, the Foreign Secretary, met the heads of the coalition in Brussels yesterday, having already recognised it as "the legitimate representative of the aspirations of the Syrian people".

Opposition fighters inside Syria told The Daily Telegraph that the US announcement was too little too late, and that any attempts by the West to intervene in Syria would be rejected. "We don't support the new FSA military command," said Ous al-Arabi, a spokesman of the Deir al-Zour Revolutionary council.

"For Deir al-Zour province they have chosen people who are not representative. Jabhat al-Nusra is the strongest group here and they ignored that.

"The people are not going to accept intervention by the West now. You were watching us die, and now that we close to victory you want to intervene? You are not welcome."

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby RajeshA » 11 Dec 2012 14:29

brihaspati garu,

I don't think modernization in Islamic society is helpful for kafirs. All it leads to is putting better tools in the hands of the Islamists. Johann ji believes in the power of consumerism and individual freedoms as propagated by the West, as being sufficient to blunt the drive of the Islamists. I don't think that would work. So his belief that Muslim society can be reformed thus, is somewhat overly optimistic.

However going to the other extreme and saying that whatever one throws at Islam, eventually it ends up only reinforcing the power of the Mullahs and their ability to hurt the Kafirs, is also a somewhat pessimistic view.

There are ways to break the hold.

1) Deepening all the divisions, creating and deepening all possible fault-lines, especially the Shia-Sunni.
2) Never allowing one sect or group to overwhelm the other, i.e. prevent consolidation by strengthening the weaker parties, however weaker groups should be allowed to consolidate, and thus not fall prey to the stronger groups. Arming the weaker groups.
3) Increasing the feeling of disenchantment among the minority groups with the whole Islamic infrastructure, e.g. in Ahmediyyas, Baluchis, Gilgitians, Kurds, Iranians (Shia<->Sunni), etc, and providing them with parachutes.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby RamaY » 11 Dec 2012 21:09

Is going to malls, using consumer electronics, having access to money and ability to talk in inglish is progress and makes an individual progressive and put him/her in the path of Dharma?

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby shyamd » 11 Dec 2012 23:45

Exclusive: UK military in talks to help Syria rebels

A plan to provide military training to the Syrian rebels fighting the Assad regime and support them with air and naval power is being drawn up by an international coalition including Britain, The Independent has learnt.

The prospect of Western intervention comes as opposition groups, which have been disorganised and divided, at long last formed an umbrella political group and a command structure for their militias. Their foreign backers are said to believe that the 22-month-long civil war has now reached a tipping point and it has become imperative to offer help to the revolutionaries to enable them to make a final push against the regime.

The head of Britain’s armed forces, General Sir David Richards, hosted a confidential meeting in London a few weeks ago attended by the military chiefs of France, Turkey, Jordan, Qatar and the UAE, and a three-star American general, in which the strategy was discussed at length. Other UK government departments and their counterparts in allied states in the mission have also been holding extensive meetings on the issue.

The commanders’ conference was held at the request of the Prime Minister, according to senior Whitehall sources. David Cameron is said to be determined that more should be done by Britain to bring to an end the bloody strife which has claimed 40,000 lives so far and made millions homeless.

One key concern is the onset of winter, with 2.5 million people inside Syria needing help and 1.5 million internally displaced by the fighting, according to the UN. More than 100,000, it is estimated, will be gathering at borders with neighbouring states which are already hosting refugees and refusing to take them in.

There is also a growing belief among the Western backers of the opposition that intervention in some form is necessary now to influence the future political shape of Syria. Jihadist groups among the rebels, some like Jabhat al-Nusra linked to al-Qa’ida, have steadily gained in power and influence because of their access to weapons and money coming from the Gulf states putting more secular groups at a severe disadvantage.

The Obama administration is considering proscribing Al-Nusra as a terrorist organisation, making it illegal for American citizens to fund it and sending a warning message to Arab states not to back it. At the same time Western help will be directed at and strengthen the moderate groups. The unified rebel command structure set up in Turkey, at the behest of the US and UK, has excluded the Islamist militias.

Britain, France and the US have agreed that none of their countries would have “boots on the ground” to help the rebels. The training camps can be set up in Turkey. However, the use of air and maritime force would, in itself, be highly controversial and likely to lead to charges that, as in Libya, the West is carrying out regime change by force.

Furthermore, any such military action will have to take place without United Nations authorisation, with Russia and China highly unlikely to back a resolution after their experience over Libya where they agreed to a “no-fly zone” only to see it turn into a Nato bombing campaign lasting months.

The plan will also draw accusations that the decision to station Nato Patriot missile defence systems at the Syrian border, at the request of Turkey, was, in reality, to camouflage intervention. The US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, Foreign Secretary William Hague and the alliance’s Secretary-General, Anders Fogh Rasmussen, had all insisted at a meeting in Brussels last week that the deployment was a purely defensive measure. British defence sources maintain that Ankara would have made the request even without the plan to aid the rebels. Neither Germany nor the Netherlands, which will be deploying the Patriots, have been part of the secret Syria talks.

There has been a steady flow of briefings from the US that the Damascus regime is readying its stock of chemical weapons. Ms Clinton stated that a desperate Assad may resort to such an attack, while President Obama has warned of a “red line” on chemical weapons, saying the use of them will not be tolerated.

However, there is a growing belief that the Russians, who had steadfastly backed the regime, are now reconciled to a future Syria without Assad. Officials in Ankara say that a visit by President Putin and Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov to Turkey last week went extremely well. Speaking in Istanbul, President Putin said: “We are not lawyers for the Syrian leadership’s actions; we are concerned with other things, namely what will happen in the future.”

British and American officials say that the Kremlin’s concerns about chaos following the departure of Assad, with jihadists emerging in control, is shared by governments in the West and Russian help will be needed in averting a bloody endgame.

Intervention, they say, is now inevitable. Le Figaro newspaper has reported that French military advisers have met rebel groups just across the Lebanese border. The US is said to have stockpiled weapons retrieved in Libya for future supply to Syria.

One senior Whitehall official said: “The efforts have so far been unco-ordinated without any focused objective. If this is worth doing, then it is worth doing professionally; training the FSA and providing them with air and maritime support when necessary.

“Obviously there are risks involved in such a mission, but there is enough capability to accomplish this.

“We are aware of the Russian view. We know that Syria is an important strategic ally for them. But it will not remain an ally if the jihadists take over after Assad goes, we are sure they realise this. We still hope they can persuade Assad to leave and an agreement can be formed on the future of the country.”

ramana
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby ramana » 11 Dec 2012 23:50

Cognitive dissonace"

“We are aware of the Russian view. We know that Syria is an important strategic ally for them. But it will not remain an ally if the jihadists take over after Assad goes, we are sure they realise this. We still hope they can persuade Assad to leave and an agreement can be formed on the future of the country.”



If jihadist will takeover once Assad leaves, what is in Russain interests to persuade Assad to leave?

BTW what is the point of an agreement when it will a fait accompli by forces with power on the ground in Syria?

Eg. Hamas getting the primacy over PLO despite the UN gifting the Palestine state defacto recognition on Western agreements!

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby nachiket » 11 Dec 2012 23:51

RamaY wrote:Is going to malls, using consumer electronics, having access to money and ability to talk in inglish is progress and makes an individual progressive and put him/her in the path of Dharma?

It certainly makes life more comfortable. What has Dharma got to do with it? Maybe better for OT thread.

shyamd
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby shyamd » 11 Dec 2012 23:53

Army's plans to support Syrian rebels

Cameron asks military chiefs to draw up plans for maritime or air support to rebels – but UK 'will act only if US does'

British commanders say intervening in Syria would be different from Libya because of the number of ground-to-air missiles in the hands of the Syrian forces.

Britain's military chiefs have drawn up contingency plans to provide Syrian rebels with maritime, and possibly air, power in response to a request from David Cameron, senior defence sources said on Monday night.

However, they said the UK would act only if the US did so and made it clear that British chiefs of staffs are seriously worried about the consequences of intervening in the Syrian crisis.

Military sources have privately been expressing growing concern about pressure from Downing Street.


Officials compared it to the pressure applied by Cameron before Britain and France took the lead in the campaign of air strikes on Libya early last year.

Options have been sent by defence chiefs to No 10, sources told the Guardian on Monday night. However, one source added: "We are a long way from doing anything." An official said: "The US is leading the way. We are not there yet."

At Cameron's request, General Sir David Richards, chief of the defence staff, chaired a meeting in London a month ago, sources said. In attendance were senior military figures from France, the US, Turkey, Jordan and the Gulf states of Qatar and the UAE who, with Saudi Arabia, have been in the vanguard of those supporting the Syrian rebels.


Most British military chiefs say intervening in Syria would be very different from last year's Libyan operation because of the sheer number of ground-to-air missiles in the hands of Syrian forces.

Other military sources say the capabilities of the Syrian regime have been exaggerated and most of its weaponry is old.

The British backed a Nato-implemented no-fly zone in Libya to protect rebels against the regime of Muammar Gaddafi, but this was heavily dependent on the US to supply the drone and aircraft support to make that possible. Britain may yet be willing to back a no-fly zone to protect Syrian refugees.

William Hague, the foreign secretary, has said the more the opposition groups unify around a coherent programme built on respect for human rights and ethnic tolerance, the more the British government can provide aid.


Cameron's urge 'to do something' in Syria resisted by defence staff

Covert US plan to arm rebels
Christina Lamb Washington Published: 9 December 2012
Comment (6) Print
The Free Syrian Army are requesting weapons for the final push against Assad (Narciso Contreras)

THE United States is launching a covert operation to send weapons to Syrian rebels for the first time as it ramps up military efforts to oust President Bashar al-Assad.

Mortars, rocket-propelled grenades and anti-tank missiles will be sent through friendly Middle Eastern countries already supplying the rebels, according to well-placed diplomatic sources.

The Americans have bought some of the weapons from the stockpiles of Muammar Gadaffi, the Libyan dictator killed last year. They include SA-7 missiles, which can be used to shoot down aircraft.

The rebels are gaining ground after 20 months of civil war in which an estimated 40,000 Syrians have died. They have entered the suburbs of Damascus and have surrounded its airport. US State Department officials are in regular contact with rebel field commanders, talking to them on Skype for hours every day. The commanders have repeatedly pressed for more weapons.


President Barack Obama authorised clandestine CIA support earlier this year and both the US and Britain have had special forces and intelligence officers on the ground for some time.

They have helped with logistics and communications, but until now have refused to arm the Free Syrian Army, offering only “non- lethal assistance”, such as humanitarian aid.

The US decision to supply weapons follows reports of movements at Syria’s chemical weapons sites. The White House is increasingly keen to hasten the end of the regime and ensure its influence with any post-Assad government.

Concerns that US-supplied weapons could fall into the hands of Islamists linked to Al-Qaeda have been partly eased by the formation of a National Coalition for Syrian Revolutionary and Opposition Forces, which will co-ordinate up to 300 rebel groups.

The US will send in more advisers to help with tactics and manage weapons supplies. British advisers are also expected to be sent. America and Britain are already training Jordanian and Turkish advisers to support the rebels.

Britain recently pledged £25m in humanitarian aid and is expected to provide body armour to the rebels as well as discussing taking some of the more seriously wounded.

The US is also intensifying diplomatic efforts to resolve the conflict. Hillary Clinton, the secretary of state, is due to attend a Friends of Syria meeting in Morocco on Wednesday, when America is expected to recognise the opposition coalition as the legitimate representative of the Syrian people.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Johann » 12 Dec 2012 00:51

RajeshA wrote:brihaspati garu,

I don't think modernization in Islamic society is helpful for kafirs. All it leads to is putting better tools in the hands of the Islamists. Johann ji believes in the power of consumerism and individual freedoms as propagated by the West, as being sufficient to blunt the drive of the Islamists. I don't think that would work. So his belief that Muslim society can be reformed thus, is somewhat overly optimistic.

However going to the other extreme and saying that whatever one throws at Islam, eventually it ends up only reinforcing the power of the Mullahs and their ability to hurt the Kafirs, is also a somewhat pessimistic view.


Hi Rajesh,

Just to make it clear, I've never argued that Europe and North America is the only or always the most important engine for modernity in our globalising world. It can just as easily be places like India, Brazil, South Korea, Singapore or even China. And it is Muslim societies own desires to to try and live on par with the rest of the world that is the most sustainable source of dissatisfaction with the status quo and motivation for deeper change. Deepening Individual empowerment isn't just a formally articulated ideology, its hardwired into the social and economic changes globalisation brings. Even the fundamentalists can not escape it. The fact that Salafis can marry a Muslim of their own choice without the approval of their parents is a very modern thing. Islam is venturing into unknown territory pretending that its all old hat.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby RamaY » 12 Dec 2012 01:19

nachiket wrote:
RamaY wrote:Is going to malls, using consumer electronics, having access to money and ability to talk in inglish is progress and makes an individual progressive and put him/her in the path of Dharma?

It certainly makes life more comfortable. What has Dharma got to do with it? Maybe better for OT thread.


We are in-topic onlee.

Of course modern amenities do make life comfortable. That is why even in a dharmic country like Bharat wants to acquire/enjoy them.

The point people are making here is because KSA has malls, roads, schools and univs and many first-world life styles, the underlying KSA-society would become pluralistic, tolerant and humane (I used the word Dharmic because it is some how the other extreme for many people here) in due course. And the next extrapolation is that it would transform the underlying ideology itself more tolerant.

I am questioning that extrapolation.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby RajeshA » 12 Dec 2012 14:34

Johann wrote:
RajeshA wrote:brihaspati garu,

I don't think modernization in Islamic society is helpful for kafirs. All it leads to is putting better tools in the hands of the Islamists. Johann ji believes in the power of consumerism and individual freedoms as propagated by the West, as being sufficient to blunt the drive of the Islamists. I don't think that would work. So his belief that Muslim society can be reformed thus, is somewhat overly optimistic.

However going to the other extreme and saying that whatever one throws at Islam, eventually it ends up only reinforcing the power of the Mullahs and their ability to hurt the Kafirs, is also a somewhat pessimistic view.


Hi Rajesh,

Just to make it clear, I've never argued that Europe and North America is the only or always the most important engine for modernity in our globalising world. It can just as easily be places like India, Brazil, South Korea, Singapore or even China. And it is Muslim societies own desires to to try and live on par with the rest of the world that is the most sustainable source of dissatisfaction with the status quo and motivation for deeper change. Deepening Individual empowerment isn't just a formally articulated ideology, its hardwired into the social and economic changes globalisation brings. Even the fundamentalists can not escape it. The fact that Salafis can marry a Muslim of their own choice without the approval of their parents is a very modern thing. Islam is venturing into unknown territory pretending that its all old hat.


Johann ji,

I think when we use words like modernity, globalization, empowerment, in analysis, we are allowing ourselves to lap up our own propaganda. These words are overloaded with different semantics coming from different mouths, but since the West has the loudest propaganda, even in non-Western countries, one could think that the West has been able to determine what all this means.

For Islam these words certainly mean something totally different than what it may mean for the West. As far as countries like India, Brazil, South Korea, Singapore or even China are concerned, their ability to determine the semantics of these words based on the drivers of the thinking of their current elite, they may either not take part and even if they wish to contribute to it, it would most probably be to acknowledge the same semantics the West has peddled or at least they would not upset the Western apple cart.

Empowerment simply means the ability of the weaker sections of the society to do more on their own, to better meet their needs, and to have a bigger say in the political and economic direction of the society or the country at large. Would this crack Islamism?

Modernity means better access to and availing of goods and services which improve the material quality of life, allowing more comfort, better communications, more information, and enabling efficiency in one's tasks. Would this crack Islamism?

Globalization refers to distribution and dissemination of goods, information, services and people across the globe. Would this crack Islamism?

It is good that you left out "democracy" and "freedom" and "human rights", because that would have caused too much amusement, taking away any seriousness from the topic.

I think most would agree with the above quasi-definitions. However when the West touts these developments in mankind, they try to smuggle through more semantic than is available in these definitions. The Western propaganda tries to show that underlying all these developments, there is some particular ideological framework, some thinking vector. There isn't really any. Maybe with respect to Communism, the above social drivers may have been ideologically relevant, but not with respect to Islam, or even Dharma.

Globalization, Modernity and "Empowerment" do not even scratch the core of Islamism much less threaten it. Here we may disagree, but that may depend on how we see Islam itself. All three - overconfidence, fear and secular kumbaya would lead to distortion of what Islam really is. I'll come to that in a subsequent post sometime.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby RajeshA » 12 Dec 2012 17:07

Johann ji,

I'll try to go into why Islam is immune from the current reforming developments which you think are sweeping the globe and have an effect on Muslims as well. For that I'll offer my interpretation of what Islam is and you can see whether to concur with that or not.

What constitutes the Islamic System?

The model I propose is that there is an Islamic Ideological Core and all the Muslims in the world are like dogs on a leash, which the Islamic Ideological Core holds in its hands. Each Muslim knows he is bound to Islam and its core. Now Islam may deem it fit to give a lot of slack to the leash and there may even be some few Muslims who may think that they are free of this leash because of the slack, but most know that it is there and those who forget, their memory loss would be assured to be one of a temporary nature. The Islamic Ideological Core always keeps wolves among the dogs to ensure that the dogs do not forget their leash, or try to break it.

Now the sectarian divisions means there are more than one Islamic cores, but they all act similarly w.r.t. their members and w.r.t. to Kafirs. The sectarian wars and conflicts are basically to ensure that ultimately there is only a single Islamic Ideological Core and all Muslims would belong to it and be guided by it. The system is trying to strengthen itself through consolidation, in the only way it knows how - through violence and intimidation.

So what are the constants of Islam that are not going to be diluted by the Western Universalism brew of consumerism, individual freedoms, human rights, and Westphalian model of world order, or for that matter by globalization, modernity and "empowerment"?

  1. The Ideological Core - Doctrine, sustained by a network of Mullahs and their wolves.

  2. The Leash - Conversion out of Islam, Apostasy would never be tolerated. It would be dealt with a heavy hand.

  3. Individual Empowerment [viz-a-viz the Kafir] - All for One , Islam gives Strength, and no member should ever feel that it has been forsaken by the rest of the Ummah. Continuous testing and validation through provocation of others.

  4. Strength of Ummah - whatever happens anywhere in Ummah, would be avenged, no matter how long it takes.

  5. No Criticism of Islamic Icons - Rasool cannot be criticized or be shown in images. Prophet is Perfect. Cornerstone of Faith.

  6. Unity - Hajj, Dawaa, Siege mentality, Mosque, Madrassa brainwashing.

  7. Exploitation of the Kafir - Zar, Zoru and Zameen of the Kafir also belongs to Muslims. Social benefits abused by Muslims in the West. There is never gratitude from Muslims for whatever Kafir gives them for that is their birthright anyway.

  8. Demographic Expansion - high fertility in majority non-Muslim countries, migration to the West, Direct Proselytization of Prison Population and Blacks (giving Islam new muscle).

  9. Women - All Muslim Women belong to Muslim Men. No Kafir can marry Muslim Women. Women would continue to be subjugated to the will of the Muslim Male.

The Kafirs would not really mind in principle - Hajj, Dawaa or Mosque, but the question is how they are used.

What is on the line for non-Muslim societies is that when Islam overwhelms these societies, a Kafir can expect only conversion or exploitation, and his women can expect to be enrolled into the baby-making factories of the Muslim. When the Kafir converts what awaits him is a complete subjugation of his freedom of thought and lifestyle and the leash from which there is no escape.

The sexual exploitation of British girls by Muslim men should awaken the West as to what to expect in the coming future, but Western overconfidence that they can change the spots on the Islamic beast through appeasement like tolerance, respect, employment and social benefits to their Muslim population, or through global currents like globalization, modernity and "empowerment" is really a fatal illusion. Sure the Islamic societies too would change in order to adopt new ways of communication, amenities, skill sets, shopping habits, etc. but that doesn't change the beast, only makes it more efficient in doing what it does best.

Western overconfidence comes from a history where through technological breakthroughs and better organization they were able to break the Ottoman Empire or see the Mughal Empire go down or have been able to intervene in Muslim countries and create some chaos, etc. All that is fine, but the Muslims too have been able to check the West, through becoming an ever more significant political vote-bank in Western countries, through their tactic of war and terror on others like USA and Russia, and then negotiating with them for more space and acceptability, see Russian concessions on Chechnya. Western overconfidence is making the West blind, or may be it is just fear of opening the eyes and seeing the beast for what it is! When the ostrich takes out its head, it would find out that the rest of its body has already been chewed and digested.

Sometimes Islam does not even mind giving a lot of slack to some Muslims. In West, they are known as "moderate Muslims". But these too have their function of keeping the Western public lulled into complacency.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Aditya_V » 12 Dec 2012 19:08

Clearly, the West still sees radical Islam as a tool against India and Russia and 9/11 and 7/11 are pin prics which can be controlled through visas and strong customs due to geographical location.

Mark my words Syria is all about of Balkanisation of Russia which Putin stopped temporarily by reoccupying Checanya and asstute use of GAS supplies to Western Europe.

Once syria is in control, gas pipelines will be laid from Qatar, Saudi, Jordan, Syria or Turkey from where tankers will take the Gas to Western Europe.

Expect Georgia, Chechanya etc. to be well supported by the West.

Despite all the public retoric, USA and Western Europe do not see China as a serious challenger to thier power nor does it see Islam. Time will tell whether the Western Strategy is Brilliant or will lead to thier own destruction.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby shyamd » 12 Dec 2012 21:43

FSA unified command is now staffed by those under the Riyadh and Doha payroll. Secular guys shunted out.
------------------
Obama administration say they are ready to conduct a commando operation to seize Syrian chem weapons. They are also urging allies such as France to act.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Philip » 12 Dec 2012 21:53

One of Marx's most quoted statements, that history
repeats itself, "the first as tragedy, then as farce", referring respectively to
Napoleon I ...

Marx's sentiment echoed an observation made by Friedrich Engels at exactly the same time Marx began work on this book. In a letter to Marx of 3 December 1851, Engels wrote from Manchester:

.... it really seems as though old Hegel, in the guise of the World Spirit, were directing history from the grave and, with the greatest conscientiousness, causing everything to be re-enacted twice over, once as grand tragedy and the second time as rotten farce, Caussidière for Danton, L. Blanc for Robespierre, Barthélemy for Saint-Just, Flocon for Carnot, and the moon-calf together with the first available dozen debt-encumbered lieutenants for the little corporal and his band of marshals. Thus the 18th Brumaire would already be upon us.[6]


So what do we make of latter-day "would-be-crusader",David Cameron? His predecessor Tony B.Liar,desperate to haev his own "victory" as Margaret Thatcher achieved in the Falklands, savoured his moment in history as Marshal Dubya's deputy as on pretexts and downrifght falsehoods they together destroyed an ancient nation,Iraq,the cradle of civilisation,resulting in the deaths of a million plus and the stench of the concentration camps like Abu Ghraib,"rendition flights and water-boarding",adding to the lexicon of the insane and sadistic,echoing memories of Nazi torture camps.

Blair now stands disgraced and a forlorn figure,ridiculed for his and his wife's grasping greed ,scooping up their thirty pieces of silver at every stop on his hectic world speaking tours,betrayer of the favourite British virtues of truth and justice and his Anglican heritage for the Catholic Church,that too after he demitted office!

Absurdly,Cameron too wants his 15 minutes of fame,or infamy as a latter-day crusader,in hanging on to the coat-tails of a motley bunch of western nations led by the US as usual,who want to punish the Syrians and exterminate Assad.This time there is no fig leaf of "protecting the Syrians",as was perpetrated in Libya,when the plot was clearly to kill Ghaddaffi.Joined by latter-day pretender to the Ottoman Empire,Turkey,who want a "shoot",and are acquiring Patriots et al ready to march into Syrian territory and oust the "hated dictator" Assad,and replace him with a deranged and diabolic bunch of Islamist murderers who prefer Al Q to Uncle Sam.

If I may add a line to Marx respectfully ,"history does repeat itself as farce second tine round,but returns as insanity the third time!"

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby RajeshA » 12 Dec 2012 22:06

Philip wrote:Blair now stands disgraced and a forlorn figure,ridiculed for his and his wife's grasping greed ,scooping up their thirty pieces of silver at every stop on his hectic world speaking tours,betrayer of the favourite British virtues of truth and justice and his Anglican heritage for the Catholic Church,that too after he demitted office!


Philip ji,

:lol: that is really worth a laugh! Thanks for this news! I have been truly in the dark for not seeing such intrinsic British virtues as truth and justice before!

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Virupaksha » 13 Dec 2012 02:10

shyamd wrote:FSA unified command is now staffed by those under the Riyadh and Doha payroll. Secular guys shunted out.
------------------
Obama administration say they are ready to conduct a commando operation to seize Syrian chem weapons. They are also urging allies such as France to act.

:rotfl: :rotfl:
The actual powers and ideologies behind this Syrian invasion is coming out. Some people called it out long long ago when the troubles started. Ofcourse those insider juicy tidbits are just one side of the story.

It means two things. These soudi and Anglo-american backed islamist invasions failed like Op gibraltor, 1965 and so the core had to come out in the open. The common syrians are not supporting these invasions.

It will be a sad day for Syria when these western backed mullahs come to power.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby shyamd » 13 Dec 2012 15:01

Sources: Syrian Rebels Training On Anti-Aircraft Weapons In Jordan
KELLY MCEVERS and RIMA MARROUCH
December 12, 2012 1:14 PM
Enlarge image
To date, Syrian rebels have had to rely on small-scale weapons in their fight against the Syrian army. Here, a rebel fighter throws an explosive device toward a Syrian government position in the northern city of Aleppo last month.

The U.S. has now formally recognized a new Syrian opposition group as the legitimate representative of the Syrian people. But the U.S. has repeatedly declined to provide weapons for rebels fighting President Bashar Assad's army.

However, NPR has learned that there are movements behind the scenes. In Jordan, several Syrian sources said that Jordanian authorities, along with their U.S. and British counterparts, have organized training for Syrian rebels on sophisticated anti-aircraft weapons.

The Syrian sources would not identify the weapons or where they came from, but they indicated they were the kind of arms that could have a dramatic impact in the fight against Assad's military.

Since the summer, the Syrian air force has been pounding rebel strongholds with helicopter gunships and fighter jets. Those bombings have killed hundreds, if not thousands, and many of the casualties have been civilians.

In recent weeks, the rebels have acquired anti-aircraft weapons from Syrian military arsenals, after capturing key air-defense bases in northern and central Syria. The rebels successfully downed a Russian-made MiG fighter jet late last month. It was the first time the rebels succeeded in assembling and firing an SA-16 shoulder-to-air missile.

Training For The Rebels

One Syrian rebel fighter, who did not want to be named, said he attended a training course in Jordan and that the training was not led by uniformed Western soldiers, but rather by men in plainclothes who spoke several different dialects of Arabic. This suggests the trainers may have been private contractors, who are sometimes used by the U.S. for training and assembly of sophisticated weaponry. The rebel fighter also said members of the Jordanian military attended the training sessions.

The source said he and about 25 others took part in the course. He said a handful of rebel groups fighting inside Syria each sent a few men to the training.

Another source said hundreds of men have done the training in the past two to three months.


These two sources — along with two other sources (none of whom wanted to be named) — said it was their impression that the sophisticated anti-aircraft weapons are present in Jordan and could be transferred into Syria at any time.

"You have to unite first," a source quoted one American as saying during a training session. The reference is to disparate rebel groups fighting in Syria who don't follow a clear chain of command.

"They want us to have structures. It's all about structures," said a second source, a Syrian army officer who defected and comes from a prominent family.

This same source said uniformed U.S. military officials regularly meet with Syrian defectors to discuss military planning. He said the current debate centers around whether rebel fighters should first seize the southern Syrian region of Dera'a, just across the border from Jordan, before making a march to the Syrian capital, Damascus, just an hour's drive away.


Another option would be for the rebels to focus all their attention and resources on Damascus, where some rebel groups have already launched an offensive east of the city and on the civilian airport.

Several sources said the focus of this military training and advising has been on professional soldiers who defected from the army, rather than civilian fighters who might have a more religious bent.


The officer who defected said the U.S. and Jordan hope to avoid what they call the "mess" in northern and eastern Syria, where Islamist fighters like Jabhat al-Nusra have dominated the fight. That group has been designated by the U.S. as a terrorist organization.

The U.S. Embassy in Jordan referred questions about this story to the State Department in Washington. Neither the State Department nor the Pentagon responded to requests for comment.


@AP says Russian deputy foreign minister says Assad losing control over Syria, opposition may win

Hezbollah is preparing for the post Asad world with Iran.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Suppiah » 13 Dec 2012 15:22

Virupaksha wrote:It will be a sad day for Syria when these western backed mullahs come to power.


Au contraire it will bring the full flavour of glorious Islam for the world incl Unkil to enjoy and hasten the move towards a final solution

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby RajeshA » 13 Dec 2012 15:50

shyamd wrote:Hezbollah is preparing for the post Asad world with Iran.


shyamd ji,

how would you say this looks like?

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby brihaspati » 13 Dec 2012 16:44

If they can, they should go for a quick and sadistic end for Assad and his family - in typical Sunni jihad style. It is an experiment, and all those Indians dancing in joy at Sunni Jihad's success, especially those not born Sunni - should get a glimpse of what awaits them too.

The method is important to watch. It shows how a regime that is no longer useful for Islamists, can be overthrown - even if it has a highly trained and committed army behind it. I am sure the point will not be missed by the current political force behind the current Indian regime. A lot of them will be provided safe refuge with their stash and family in Londonistan (the usual refuge of political rascals from the subcontinent - from Mushy to Khaleda's son), but what about the lower or middle ranked courtiers and hagiographers?

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Chinmayanand » 13 Dec 2012 19:53

Let's just hope that the opposition goes one step further in treating the lovely ambassadors from US and Britain in post Assad Syria than it did in Libya.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby RamaY » 13 Dec 2012 20:08

I echo Bji's comments.

I also hope that Syria falls into chaos with sectarian killings. I hope it spills into other arapian states.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Kati » 13 Dec 2012 20:25

Shyamd-ji,
any reason why Alawaites are not consolidating their positions in the coastal area (around Latakia)
with arms and resources and creating their "homeland"? They can easily get support from Hezbollah right across their southern border.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Multatuli » 14 Dec 2012 11:25

Syria Rebels make child behead unarmed prisoner - WARNING - Extremely Graphic

A graphic video recently posted to on the internet appears to show Syrian rebels forcing a child to behead an unarmed prisoner. The footage has left many questioning whether foreign aid will end up in the hands of Islamist extremists and terrorists.
The video shows a child cutting a bound prisoner’s head off with a machete. Militants then display the man’s severed head while chanting "Allahu Akbar," or “God is great.”

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=475_1355172697

It's really a very nasty video, but it's the reality.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby shyamd » 15 Dec 2012 10:04

RajeshA wrote:shyamd ji,

how would you say this looks like?

Once Asad has fallen, they will sort out lebanon. That was always the plan. Force Hezbollah to give up arms and become a purely political entity- they agreed to the UN agreement to do so as well or if they don't then militarily they'll be forced to do so. There is also talk about splitting lebanon into North and South. Anbar could secede to sunni 'Free Syria'. These are the many options that could happen.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby shyamd » 15 Dec 2012 10:10

Kati wrote:Shyamd-ji,
any reason why Alawaites are not consolidating their positions in the coastal area (around Latakia)
with arms and resources and creating their "homeland"? They can easily get support from Hezbollah right across their southern border.

Could happen but they want to hold onto Damascus for negotiations. Certainly Asad has one hand on the bag and the other with the gun.

Latakia side is not that easy to maintain - 50% sunni's there and trouble has been reported even in Asad home town Qardaha. Lets see what he does, it is possible for him to try and create some sort of a homeland but I don't know if it is sustainable as rebels will just use cordonne sanitaire.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby shyamd » 15 Dec 2012 15:13

Syria: Cameron secures EU pledge to review arms embargo
David Cameron has pressured the European Union into taking all measures to support Syria's opposition, including the arming of rebels early next year, after he warned that "inaction and indifference are not options".


By Bruno Waterfield, Tim Ross in Brussels and Damien McElroy2:43PM GMT 14 Dec 2012
The British Prime Minister told other European leaders at a Brussels summit on Friday morning that the EU could no longer stand by as Bashar al-Assad's regime stepped up its war against the Syrian people.
"The situation is truly dreadful and getting worse. Forty thousand people are dead already there's a hard winter coming, there is an extreme humanitarian situation on the ground," he said.
"This is a desperate crisis that is taking place on our watch. People will ask in future years, what did you do to help deal with this situation, to help bring about a transition, to help get rid of President Assad? There is no single simple answer but inaction and indifference are not options."
Mr Cameron, with French support, has scored a major diplomatic victory by pushing reluctant EU leaders into a firm commitment that arming or providing logistical military support to Syrian rebels will be on the agenda of a meeting of European foreign ministers on 31 January.


For the first time, the EU has instructed foreign ministers "to work on all options to support and help the opposition and to enable greater support for the protection of civilians".
The new harder diplomatic language also commits the EU to working for "political transition... towards a future without President Assad and his illegitimate regime" in move that paves the way for the West to give military support to rebels early next year.

"I want a very clear message to go to President Assad that nothing is off the table," he said.
"I want us to help shape that opposition, advise and work with it, so we can see the speediest possible transition in Syria. It's a very difficult situation, there are no easy answers, these things take time. But as an EU and as a country, Britain, we should be doing everything we can to speed up that transition."
Britain will next month table changes to the EU arms embargo on Syria that would allow European states to supply weapons to the military wing of the Syrian Opposition Council.
One proposal would retain an embargo banning sales to Syrian regime forces but allow exports to its opponents when the measure is renewed.
Supporters of Syria's rebels are preparing to negotiate significant changes to the embargo ahead of the EU foreign minister's meeting on January 31, officials said.
However a diplomatic push on the embargo would depend on the Syrian opposition establishing a formal military command that excluded al-Qaeda linked groups.
"The embargo going forward from March should only apply to the official Syrian army but in making this argument it will be important that any aid supplied from Europe will only go to a military council of the opposition coalition and prevented leakage of arms to al-Qaeda factions," an official involved in the preparations said.
Francois Hollande, the French President, said the tide was turning against Assad and that EU action in the days and weeks ahead would be criticial.
"On the ground, the war is now turning against Assad and we should set ourselves this objective - make Assad leave as quickly as possible," he said.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby vishvak » 15 Dec 2012 15:36

So UK is part of EU now or EU is able to be pressured by UK suddenly over Arms embargo?
The embargo going forward from March should only apply to the official Syrian army but in making this argument it will be important that any aid supplied from Europe will only go to a military council of the opposition coalition and prevented leakage of arms to al-Qaeda factions

So Al-Q is the bad part of opposition coalition.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby brihaspati » 15 Dec 2012 21:55

The main thrust of the Sunni jihadis is to isolate Assad/Alawites geographically from Iran. So if Assad agrees to become confined to the coast - they can surround him. Assad's problem is that he doesnt have a good navy, so he can be blockaded sea-and-land once his umbilical common border with Iran is cut.

Most likely, a push is being readied. For some reason - they need the western frontiers of Iran badly. It is not really against the Iranian theocracy - for a good model to understand US and UK reactions about Iran is that, the Khomeinate was their creation, and and there is no reason to believe that the utility of the Khomeinate is done over for them. The longer the Khomeinate stays in power in Iran, its good for the west.

They need to secure the region for something else, as part of a wider strategic response to some threat or opportunity they see. Probably gas/or other stuff. Or something else. That is what needs to be looked into.

The problem with international politics is that it is full of unintended consequences - because of many reasons, either out of ideological myopia or incomplete knowledge. The one factor the west always miscalculates - is its failure to understand the nature of Islam. This is where the calculations will go wrong.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby Lilo » 15 Dec 2012 21:59

Aditya_V wrote:Clearly, the West still sees radical Islam as a tool against India and Russia and 9/11 and 7/11 are pin prics which can be controlled through visas and strong customs due to geographical location.

Mark my words Syria is all about of Balkanisation of Russia which Putin stopped temporarily by reoccupying Checanya and asstute use of GAS supplies to Western Europe.

Once syria is in control, gas pipelines will be laid from Qatar, Saudi, Jordan, Syria or Turkey from where tankers will take the Gas to Western Europe.

Expect Georgia, Chechanya etc. to be well supported by the West.

Despite all the public retoric, USA and Western Europe do not see China as a serious challenger to thier power nor does it see Islam. Time will tell whether the Western Strategy is Brilliant or will lead to thier own destruction.


Russia didn't proliferate enough weapons technologies when it had the wherewithal , there is a long list of wasted chances to create conditions for strong well armed militantly indigenous regimes which could have been a consistent headache for the western capitalist interests especially in the middle east through out the cold war.
Iran,Indonesia,Syria,Venezuela,Argentina,Vietnam,Myanmar,Serbia,Iraq,Egypt,Afghanistan,Libya,Algeria could all have been supplied with technologies for Artillery and Gun systems,Naval tech ,Cruise and Ballistic missile tech,Rocket systems,Aerospace,Communications,Manufacturing etc

Instead it had blundered along transferring strategic tech to its rapacious neighbors like China which are now eyeing much of its territory just like the West .

Its strict terms for ideological convergence as preconditions for aid (military and economic) even in distant regions far removed from its borders (middle east, Latin america, Africa and much of Asia) was a monumental blunder.

Even now 20yrs after its defeat in coldwar , its not too late... It can still help mullahs in Iran go nominally nuclear..Instead of getting subjected to slow strategic castration under the expanding missile shield capabilities of the West

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby ramana » 17 Dec 2012 23:02

Bji, One CT I heard was that Iraq invasion was to get/loot the Baghdad museum inventory as it holds some inscriptions of value to the West about their origins. Once the museum was looted or assets transferred the place was allowed to run amuck.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby brihaspati » 18 Dec 2012 03:41

Yes they are paranoid about the supposed loss of face of established religions. Others see supernatural signals in relics - in spite of all the "sciencetific attitude" yadda yadda. Actually I am often surprised by the level of superstition prevalent at circles that advise at gov levels.

The thing is there is something missing here - that we are not catching. Its not just one predominant factor. All of it has been explored in the academic CT circles - oil+gas, minerals+rare earths, need to prevent Russia from expanding south, need to appease teh saudis, need to hide peak oil, workinga ccording to perceptions of biblical plan [allowing Israel to be attacked so that Jesusian reappearnce with sword on horseback as king is given a akala-bodhana], etc.

Sometimes I feel I can have a glimpse into the plan, but then it becomes unsure. They are trying to move twoards greater centralized control of the world economy and politics -especially the mediterranean. The two main European churches are party to the project, but they each have their own mutual rivalries and both want to eliminate the orthodox. They are using the Islamic to try and clean up the "pagans" to the "east" and weaken also in the struggle.This is where there are serious problems.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby abhishek_sharma » 18 Dec 2012 05:42


V_Raman
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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby V_Raman » 18 Dec 2012 06:00

Is west worried about a local currency agreement between China-India on trade coupled with a friendly ME? A more Islamist ME will be a barrier to entry for India. Is the west predicting a non-INC India? This is very India centric. But my brain only works that far.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby ramana » 18 Dec 2012 23:26

WANA Libya

Nightwatch reports

Nightwatch 17 Dec 2012

Libya: Libya's ruling national congress ordered the temporary closure of its borders with four of its neighbors on 16 December and declared its desert south a closed military zone.

The national assembly ordered that land borders with Chad, Niger, Sudan and Algeria be temporarily closed pending new regulations. It also said the provinces of Ghadames, Ghat, Obari, al-Shati, Sabha, Murzuq and Kufra are considered closed military zones.


Comment: The rise of southern tribal opposition to the new government and increased jihadist tendencies are responsible for the new order. The government has no capabilities to enforce its mandate in the south, making this order a statement that the government recognizes it has a problem.

Modern Libya is an artificial creation of the Italians. It appears to be devolving into its ancient regions of Tripolitania, Cyrenaica and Fezzan - in the south.



So one big outcome is colonial borders are being unmade in the Islamic world.

Recall the British writer who lamented on Europe's vanishing states? Same phenomena is happening in areas subject to Arab spring.

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Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby devesh » 19 Dec 2012 03:17

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2012/ ... ts-as.html

US Recognizes Unelected Terrorists as Syrian "Representatives"


....
....
....
The overt, extremist nature of the militants operating in Syria has become increasingly difficult for the West to paper over. Torrents of videos and confirmed reports documenting militant atrocities, including several involving the machine gunning of bound prisoners, and a particularly gruesome video of a child handed a sword by militants to hack off the heads of bound men wearing civilian clothing, has confirmed the worst fears expressed by geopolitical analysts and foreign governments around the world - that the Syrian opposition is in fact Al Qaeda.
..
..
The Wall Street Journal, in their article, "U.S. Recognizes Syria's Main Rebel Group," would also report:

The Obama administration on Tuesday for the first time released intelligence directly tying a powerful Syrian rebel group to commanders of al Qaeda in Iraq. U.S. officials formally sanctioned the Syrian militia, called Jabhat al-Nusra—freezing any assets it may have in the U.S. and barring Americans from doing business with it—because of fears it is gaining disproportionate power among the rebel groups seeking to overthrow Mr. Assad.

Despite this announcement, such sanctions are symbolic and selectively enforced. Also on such lists was the Mujahedeen e-Khalq (MEK), and currently the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG), which officially merged with Al Qaeda in 2007, according to the US Army's West Point Combating Terrorism Center (CTC) report, "Al-Qa'ida's Foreign Fighters in Iraq." Yet in 2011, NATO had armed, funded, and provided air support for LIFG during the premeditated overthrow of the Libyan government.

US Has Knowingly Supported Al Qaeda for Years

Based in Benghazi, elements of LIFG were behind the attack on a US consulate and the death of US Ambassador J. Christopher Stevens. They are also confirmed to be sending fighters and weapons through NATO-member Turkey where they stage before engaging in combat operations inside Syria.

In November 2011, the Telegraph in their article, "Leading Libyan Islamist met Free Syrian Army opposition group," would mention LIFG by name when they reported:

Abdulhakim Belhadj, head of the Tripoli Military Council and the former leader of the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group, "met with Free Syrian Army leaders in Istanbul and on the border with Turkey," said a military official working with Mr Belhadj. "Mustafa Abdul Jalil (the interim Libyan president) sent him there."

Another Telegraph article, "Libya’s new rulers offer weapons to Syrian rebels," would admit:

Syrian rebels held secret talks with Libya's new authorities on Friday, aiming to secure weapons and money for their insurgency against President Bashar al-Assad's regime, The Daily Telegraph has learned.

At the meeting, which was held in Istanbul and included Turkish officials, the Syrians requested "assistance" from the Libyan representatives and were offered arms, and potentially volunteers.

"There is something being planned to send weapons and even Libyan fighters to Syria," said a Libyan source, speaking on condition of anonymity. "There is a military intervention on the way. Within a few weeks you will see."

Later that month, some 600 Libyan terrorists would be reported to have entered Syria to begin combat operations and have been flooding into the country ever since.

Clearly they are not "secretly" organizing hundreds of fighters under the nose of the US consulate in Benghazi, Libya, and "sneaking" through NATO member states into Syria. They are doing with NATO-backing, with NATO admittedly providing support for militants along Turkey's border with Syria, utilizing the very same regional Al Qaeda networks identified by the US military during the US occupation of Iraq - which also explains where Jabhat al-Nusra is coming from.

Further undermining US claims that they have identified and are attempting to separate from the "opposition," sectarian extremists, are admissions made as early as 2007 that US foreign policy explicitly sought to utilize these very sectarian extremists to violently overthrow the Syrian government. Indeed, in 2007, Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Seymour Hersh published an article titled, "The Redirection" for the New Yorker, within which US, Saudi, and Lebanese officials described their conspiracy.

In the report it specifically stated:

"To undermine Iran, which is predominantly Shiite, the Bush Administration has decided, in effect, to reconfigure its priorities in the Middle East. In Lebanon, the Administration has coöperated with Saudi Arabia’s government, which is Sunni, in clandestine operations that are intended to weaken Hezbollah, the Shiite organization that is backed by Iran. The U.S. has also taken part in clandestine operations aimed at Iran and its ally Syria. A by-product of these activities has been the bolstering of Sunni extremist groups that espouse a militant vision of Islam and are hostile to America and sympathetic to Al Qaeda." -The Redirection, Seymour Hersh (2007)

Hersh's report would continue by stating:

"the Saudi government, with Washington’s approval, would provide funds and logistical aid to weaken the government of President Bashir Assad, of Syria. The Israelis believe that putting such pressure on the Assad government will make it more conciliatory and open to negotiations." -The Redirection, Seymour Hersh (2007)

The link between extremist groups and Saudi funding was also mentioned in the report, and reflects evidence presented by the West Point CTC indicating that the majority of fighters and funding behind the sectarian violence in Iraq, came from Saudi Arabia. Hersh's report specifically states:

"...[Saudi Arabia's] Bandar and other Saudis have assured the White House that “they will keep a very close eye on the religious fundamentalists. Their message to us was ‘We’ve created this movement, and we can control it.’ It’s not that we don’t want the Salafis to throw bombs; it’s who they throw them at—Hezbollah, Moqtada al-Sadr, Iran, and at the Syrians, if they continue to work with Hezbollah and Iran.” -The Redirection, Seymour Hersh (2007)

The report reads like a prophecy, fulfilled verbatim during the events of the last 2 years. The Wall Street Journal report openly states that the Syrian conflict is turning into a proxy war with Iran, just as was planned in 2007. The feigned ignorance, surprise and attempts to mitigate terror groups the US purposefully created in the first place, is merely for public consumption. Bands of sectarian extremists destroying Syria was the stated plan for years, a plan now coming into fruition.

Wall Street Journal Admits Syria's Minorities are Fighting for Lives - SNC Leader Admits He Seeks an "Islamic State"

And even as US President Obama attempts to assure the public and the international community that the West is sorting out the extremists, the Wall Street Journal admits that militias are forming across Syria - assembled by Syria's large minorities to protect themselves from what is clearly a sectarian assault - not a pro-democracy movement. In describing the militias, the Wall Street Journal reports:

Many come from Syria's religious minorities, mostly the Shiite offshoot Alawite sect to which the president's family belongs, as well Christians and Druze, who increasingly see themselves in a battle against a mainly Sunni rebel insurgency.

Of course, the Wall Street Journal attempts to portray the militias as mercenaries in the service of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, despite admitting the sectarian nature of the opposition and admitting that Al Qaeda is confirmed to be operating inside of Syria.

The sectarian nature of the bloodbath the US was engineering in 2007 was also mentioned in Seymour Hersh's "The Redirection." Foreshadowing was given by a former CIA officer based in Lebanon who stated:

"Robert Baer, a former longtime C.I.A. agent in Lebanon, has been a severe critic of Hezbollah and has warned of its links to Iranian-sponsored terrorism. But now, he told me, “we’ve got Sunni Arabs preparing for cataclysmic conflict, and we will need somebody to protect the Christians in Lebanon. It used to be the French and the United States who would do it, and now it’s going to be Nasrallah and the Shiites" -The Redirection, Seymour Hersh (2007)
Clearly, the Christians in Syria would also need protection.

And while the US attempts to reassure the world that the brood of terrorists it is cultivating and has now officially recognized as the "representatives of the Syrian people" is "pro-democratic" in nature, the very leader the US recently handpicked in Doha, Qatar to lead the new opposition coalition, Moaz al-Khatib, has admitted in an Al Jazeera interview that he seeks to establish an "Islamic state" across currently secular Syria.

Modeled after the increasingly despotic Muslim Brotherhood regime led by Mohammed Morsi, who is currently hiring rape gangs to help disperse protesters opposed to his expanding dictatorship, al-Khatib's vision of Syria's future is one even many Syrian Sunnis reject.

To declare this violent minority, augmented by foreign terrorists couching the establishment of a brutal faux-theocracy behind the paper-thin veneer of "democracy," as the "representatives of the Syrian people" is not a "a big step" as President Obama declared. Instead, it is a step as illegitimate and morally bankrupt as it is desperate. It is a stumble forward - and one that threatens to trip up anyone within arms reach of America as it takes it.


devesh
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Joined: 17 Feb 2011 03:27

Re: West Asia News and Discussions

Postby devesh » 19 Dec 2012 03:18

so Al-Qaeda is now a West's dog on the leash, to be directed at whomever, whenever needed!


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