Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Dec 25, 2012

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RajeshA
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Dec 25, 2012

Postby RajeshA » 10 Jan 2013 14:55

anupmisra wrote:
RajeshA wrote:Pakis suffer all the time. It is not as if for ordinary Pakis, there are rivers of mead flowing. There is of course scope for them to suffer a bit more....


True. Not a bit more but to make the pakis suffer extreme pains, do you want Indians to suffer along with them? Why not bide your time, plan a concerted attack on their financial, economic and civic systems, on their very idea of their being, their lifelines....? The pakis have so many open defenses, too many fault-lines to list. Pick the top ten. No one outside the land of mlecchas like the inhabitants of that toilet complex. They are shunned everywhere. However, everybody including the eyerainians and the chinese are biding their time, using them like throw-away tools. They wouldn't want to have India upset their applecarts just yet.

I, too, want retribution. But the middle-aged in me counsels patience. Must be because of being in the rough and tumble world of real estate in NY. My timing is more long-term and the desired results will be more viscious and permanent.

There is a saying in Hindi - Saanp bhi mar jayay aur lathi bhi na tootey. Be the vulture. Patience.

JMT.


anupmisra ji,

I have absolutely nothing against the long game. But the long game is simply not being played.

I believe our difference in perspective on this issue arises from perhaps a different perception of who we are pitted against. There are of course many support networks that Pakistan plugs into - Anglo-American, Chinese, Saudis, etc. That may be so, but when we look at it that way, we are still looking at different quarters helping Pakistan, bolstering it against India. We also believe that when the 3½ friends of Pakistan have a parting of ways with Pakistan and the Pakistani deep state starts failing, our problems would become lesser, as the resources that Pakistan has as its beck and call decrease. We have hope that when the resources decrease, they would become more inward looking, or perhaps make peace with us, as we may remain their only means of aid.

There is some substance to such speculation, of course.

However in this perspective we concentrate too much on the Pakistani Army tree and forget the Islamist forest. When the Pakistani Army loses its unity, it would start getting poached by other Jihadist groups, and the strength of the Jihadis lies in brainwashing and motivating jihadists. They are networked everywhere in the world, and the whole network supports the endeavors of some group to subjugate the Kufr. Moreover as we have seen in Libya and Syria, by becoming agents of change of status-quo, agents of regime changes, they manage to receive monetary, material and tactical aid from Anglo-Americans as well.

So if tomorrow Pakistani Army were to capsize and be routed completely, it would not really change a thing for us. The enmity would remain, their agenda would remain, their methods would remain or become more brutal, their connections and support base across the world would remain.

If one considers the whole Islamic forest to be the threat to us, than we have to learn how it ticks, and knowing how Pakistani Army ticks is only a very small part of that.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Dec 25, 2012

Postby Anindya » 10 Jan 2013 15:08

From Raman's article...
Our strategic objectives are to work for good neighbourly relations marked by normal trade, people to people contacts, greater sporting and cultural interactions, hassle-free travel and a confidence-building mechanism. A sustained dialogue process is necessary to achieve these objectives.


Why are these good strategic objectives to have, with a country like Pakistan? Normal trade with Pakistanis has not caused any non Muslim country to be safe from Pakistani terrorism and nor has people to people contacts with Pakistanis.

Unless we start basing our strategic objectives on some real data, we will not achieve anything - unfortunately, most of our journalists do not seem to realize this at all.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Dec 25, 2012

Postby abhishek_sharma » 10 Jan 2013 16:10

Shiv Aroor ‏@ShivAroor
Near the LoC at Mendhar. | pic.twitter.com/jCybASzj

Shiv Aroor ‏@ShivAroor
Just spent 24 hours at and near the LoC at Mendhar, Poonch. Back in Rajouri now. Tense times. Army morale uncertain.

Shiv Aroor ‏@ShivAroor
Army jawans angry. Spoke to several. But they wouldn't speak on camera. They want clarity from Delhi. | pic.twitter.com/Uu9981KU

Shiv Aroor ‏@ShivAroor
Ironically, there are few things that provide greater clarity and perspective than spending time with Army jawans on the LoC. My gain.

Shiv Aroor ‏@ShivAroor
No matter what, the logistics supply route manned by Army jawans, never stops. This is between Rajouri & Mendhar. | pic.twitter.com/bBQMjwom

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Dec 25, 2012

Postby Nihat » 10 Jan 2013 16:11

The planned escalation that this hideous act was , I really really struggle to understand tte pakistani endgame here or even their long term planning. Assuming that the american withdrawal goes as planned by 2014 and PA and their afghan talibunny counterparts start singing romantic duets again together , then what.

We should expect terror attacks to rise but surly the pakis know that the headless chickens that currently rule india cannot ignore them forever and will be forced to respond , conventionally they will get hammered and if escalated to a nuclear level then pakistan will be obliterated , they can also expect global condemnation for being the initiators of nuclear war (however limited it may be ).

So is this all about a power mad army because I sure as hell don't find the method behind this strategic madness that TSP is practicing.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Dec 25, 2012

Postby RajeshA » 10 Jan 2013 16:17

I think the memory of 1971 defeat is starting to pale. Pakis need another big jhhapparh!

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Dec 25, 2012

Postby lakshmikanth » 10 Jan 2013 16:23

partha wrote:x-post from media thread -

Remember this warning some months ago? Now see this -

Image

Now India it seems has a deep state. Nice ==.


Extremely worrisome, Rajdeep Turdesai twits:
Image

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Dec 25, 2012

Postby SSridhar » 10 Jan 2013 16:41

Birkin Babe hopes peace process will not be derailed

It won't be because India has committed to 'uninterrupted and uninterruptible dialogue', thanks to Mani Shankar Ayyar.
"You asked whether this will set back or derail the (peace) process. I will hope not and I (do not) see it derailing or setting back the process," Pakistan foreign minister Hina Rabbani Khar said during a news conference at the Foreign Office on Thursday afternoon.

"I hope both the countries will show their commitment to correct (the situation) as we are showing our commitment to correct," she said in response to a flurry of questions about two clashes along the LoC that left one Pakistani and two Indian soldiers dead.

Khar reiterated Pakistan's offer to have the clashes investigated by the UN Military Observer Group in India and Pakistan. India has outrightly rejected this offer.

"We have asked for (a probe by) UNMOGIP and conveyed to the Indian side that this is an option which is on the table because we clearly have nothing to hide. We would want a third party to investigate the matter and set the record straight," she said.

The situation had deteriorated because of "some unnecessary statements and unnecessary atmospherics which were created", she contended.

She said the two countries have mechanisms in place to deal with "challenges like the one we have been faced with in the last week...so that we can continue as normal neighbours".

As part of these efforts, the Directors General of Military Operations of the two countries had been in contact and a protest had been lodged by Pakistan's Foreign Office with the Indian Deputy High Commissioner, she said.

Khar repeatedly said that the government and people of Pakistan were committed to normalising relations with India and ruled out an official response to every statement being made by Indian political leaders on the clashes along the LoC.

"The Pakistan government and the Pakistani people have demonstrated a deep, abiding commitment to normalise and improve relations with India and to really start a journey of trust-building," she said.

The Pakistan People's Party-led government, she said, had been "walking the talk on giving India very pragmatic and specific messages, for instance through trade normalisation and visa liberalisation".

The Pakistan government is "leading towards a track which is of trust-building and normalising this region which has been very unstable because of irresponsible actions and statements", Khar said.

The government would not do anything that would promote or contribute to instability, she added.

Khar said Pakistan had been "a bit appalled and unpleasantly surprised to see such strong statements emanating four days after (a Pakistani soldier) lost his life" in a clash along the LoC on Sunday.

She said it was also "unfortunate" that there were "contradictory statements" from Indian Army officials on whether an Indian soldier had been decapitated.

However, she acknowledged that there was now "a sense of trying to de-escalate on their (Indian) side from those statements and I think that is the right way to go".

Asked about Pakistan's failure to meet a December 31 deadline for giving Most Favoured Nation-status to India, Khar said the government was committed to normalising all aspects of bilateral relations, including trade and commerce.

"Let me convey once again our commitment to normalise relations with India...and we are talking about normalising (ties) in all aspects. So I like to look at it as trade normalisation because we are not granting India any special favours. We are granting India the same treatment that we grant to 180 countries," she said.

"There is a commitment of this government to go ahead with that. There are processes which need to be pursued and a delay of a few weeks here or there (in giving MFN-status) should not be too much of a worry," she added.

Khar said Pakistan was keen to ensure that there were no "invisible barriers" to trade.

"It's easy to normalise trade by giving each other MFN-status but Pakistan is committed to ensure that there are no visible or invisible barriers to trade. Tariff and non-tariff barriers should cease to exist," she said.

The Pakistan government has reportedly held up the grant of MFN-status after several ministries and trade lobbies contended that rapid trade liberalisation would allow Indian goods and products to swamp the Pakistani market.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Dec 25, 2012

Postby Neela » 10 Jan 2013 16:54

This Rajdeep Sardesai ......he is like this piece of turd that is floating in the toilet. You do not want to see it and you want to flush it down. But after the flush , he pops up again.
Ignore the turd. And do not give him mileage here.

------------------------------

2 days later.........
Image
Last edited by SSridhar on 10 Jan 2013 17:25, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Neela, I completely understand your anger. However, this is not allowed explicitly.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Dec 25, 2012

Postby Aditya_V » 10 Jan 2013 17:03

Can we behead one of the Paki particpants and call it an Isolated Incidence?? isnt that what DDM is saying about the poor armyman.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Dec 25, 2012

Postby SSridhar » 10 Jan 2013 17:36

TSP has reservations over giving MFN to India: TSP Foreign Secretary

He is directly contradicting, on the same day, what his boss, the Birkin Babe said on this issue (posted here)

Anyway, we were not expecting TSP to grant us MFN. We, the guys far removed from the corridors of Indian power and without access to all the information, knew it was a drama. But, our babus and netas fell for it lock, stock & barrel. We must be the only country with such a short institutional memory. Birkin Babe & TSP Foreign Sec. are playing cop games here. But, the intention was clear right from the beginning. Use the MFN carrot to make India concede and they have more or less achieved whatever they wanted. So, it is time to renege. They are secure that India will not retaliate. Even after the barbaric mutilation, our Home Minister has just said that peace dialogue will not be impacted. So, the paki bas***ds are secure in their distilled knowledge that nothing stirs up our leaders.
Foreign Secretary Jalil Abbas Jilani on Thursday said Pakistan had some reservations over giving India the status of most favoured nation (MFN), DawnNews reported.

Speaking to media representatives in Islamabad, Jilani said the commerce ministers of India and Pakistan would hold talks on those reservations in the next few days.

He further said violation of ceasefire on the line of control after 10 years was unfortunate.

Jilani added that Pakistan had communicated to India that she was ready for an independent probe into the violation.

The foreign secretary moreover said that the director generals military operations of both countries had communicated on the matter.

He said both sides would have to exercise restraint in the wake of the ceasefire violation.{This gratuitous advice flows directly from Salman Kurshid's own, "we should not allow this to escalate" nonsense. Kurshid outdid SM Krishna, IMO. Each successive FM is dimmer than the previous}

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Dec 25, 2012

Postby anupmisra » 10 Jan 2013 17:41

Neela wrote:This Rajdeep Sardesai ......he is like this piece of turd that is floating in the toilet. You do not want to see it and you want to flush it down. But after the flush , he pops up again.
Ignore the turd. And do not give him mileage here.

------------------------------

2 days later.........


Oh great. It has Wahajat Khan, too. That should be interesting. Doves and pigeons on this side. Hawks and super hawks from theirs.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Dec 25, 2012

Postby Rajdeep » 10 Jan 2013 17:42

Image

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Dec 25, 2012

Postby anupmisra » 10 Jan 2013 17:43


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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Dec 25, 2012

Postby anupmisra » 10 Jan 2013 17:46

Pakis up to their pakistaniyat. Pakhani Super League unveiled

it hoped would lure international stars
Five teams will be part of the league in its first three editions and each team will comprise five local players and six international players

Sounds like a "heera mandi" type venture. Khar could serve both ends of the clientele.
Last edited by anupmisra on 10 Jan 2013 17:47, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Dec 25, 2012

Postby abhishek_sharma » 10 Jan 2013 17:47

Another Pakistani soldier killed by Indian forces: Army

dil me thodi shaanti

yeh dil maange MORE.
Last edited by abhishek_sharma on 10 Jan 2013 17:48, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Dec 25, 2012

Postby shiv » 10 Jan 2013 17:48

anupmisra wrote:Pakis up to their pakistaniyat. Pakhani Super League unveiled

it hoped would lure international stars
Five teams will be part of the league in its first three editions and each team will comprise five local players and six international players

Sounds like a "heera mandi" type venture. Khar could serve both ends of the clientele.


These mchods needed some cash and sure enough BCCI has given it to them.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Dec 25, 2012

Postby Neela » 10 Jan 2013 17:54

Aditya_V
It is actually a very good question. The GoI has no answers to the asymmetric war being fought where there is steady trickle of lost Indian lives. Neither have the famed Indian "strategists" (who get quite a bit of undue praise here ) have come up with anything. But boy can they talk ! Remember the time when Shashi Tharoor was the darling of this thread? He is there in the AmanKiTamasha.

How did the babus allow the motley bunch of retards to wield so much influence in government circles. If you were a babu and you want your policies to see the light of the day you first kill off any competing programme that tries to share space with your ideas. Isn't that how you would work in your job as well? If you are fighting for senior role, would't you try to subtle ways to get it? But look what has happened here...it is the AmanKiAsha lot who have now shamelessly come to the front pages.

I am in awe of the Pakis actually. No money and no weapons but smart fellows who can a)come to India and b) blame India for the their actions. I will challenge any babu to mimic those actions in Pakistan ....willing to put Rs.5000 for the wager!

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Dec 25, 2012

Postby RajeshA » 10 Jan 2013 17:55

Rajdeep wrote:Image

So TarekFatah is saying there is a war going on! How come nobody in India including Barkha Dutt is aware of this!

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Dec 25, 2012

Postby lakshmikanth » 10 Jan 2013 18:01

RajeshA,

It took me quite a lot of studies and personal effort to understand that Islam is at perpetual, constant war with external society and also has a constant revolution within itself internally. It does not come automatically and needs a lot of cognitive dissonance and cognitive bias against Hinduism to be culled from within.

All this after 20 odd years of reading news papers and magazines. The likes of Burkha Dutt either have not spent the time and energy to remove the cognitive bias they have against Hinduism to realize the threat that Islam is. Or even if they have she knows which side of the secular bread is buttered.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Dec 25, 2012

Postby RajeshA » 10 Jan 2013 18:18

lakshmikanth ji,

same here. It takes a long time to understand the nature of Islam, its algorithm. Many Dharmic believers don't understand the concept of this-worldly agenda in religion, they don't understand that all of Islam's believers are simply part of the organism nourishing it by carrying out their roles, they don't understand the hunger of the beast, they don't understand that it is not morality which underlines it but the desire for power. It is an algorithm which forces each to do its part, so that the whole becomes strong, and the cream, all the drivers, benefit.

Many of us genuinely have difficulty in understanding how so many in the world would be willing to follow this ideology if its nature were so!

But like in Matrix, each Muslim is simply a Battery feeding the Machine. All dreams of red pills however carry the punishment of death!

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Dec 25, 2012

Postby rajanb » 10 Jan 2013 18:35

lakshmikanth wrote:RajeshA,

It took me quite a lot of studies and personal effort to understand that Islam is at perpetual, constant war with external society and also has a constant revolution within itself internally. It does not come automatically and needs a lot of cognitive dissonance and cognitive bias against Hinduism to be culled from within.

All this after 20 odd years of reading news papers and magazines. The likes of Burkha Dutt either have not spent the time and energy to remove the cognitive bias they have against Hinduism to realize the threat that Islam is. Or even if they have she knows which side of the secular bread is buttered.


The point is do the BDs of the world even understand Hinduism? I doubt it.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Dec 25, 2012

Postby nawabs » 10 Jan 2013 18:38

Pakistan is president of the UN Security Council this month
http://www.unmultimedia.org/radio/engli ... r-january/

Counter-terrorism efforts and peacekeeping are among the focus areas for the Security Council in January, incoming president Ambassador Masood Khan of Pakistan told journalists in New York on Thursday.

:rotfl:

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Dec 25, 2012

Postby member_22872 » 10 Jan 2013 18:39

Rajesh ji, Lakshmikanth ji,
I agree. Many people take to Islam in my opinion for the raw power and subjugation agenda that is propagated, the narration of strength among all Muslims across the world is sold hook line and sinker. Men who are control freaks who love the narrative buy it without question, hey you get 72 unwashed virgins when alive and also when you die, what is there to refuse and dislike? Then there is thirst of blood which they can satisfy by cutting some throats of kafurs. For those in doubt a softer earlier Quranic verses are handed down which talk about tolerance little do they tell those verses are superseded and replaced by later ones where jihad is the only way and likes of b.dutta an SarDesais are in plenty anyway to chip to spread the word in the name of secularism. Ball$ to common man's security and hell with thinking for the nation.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Dec 25, 2012

Postby abhijitm » 10 Jan 2013 19:39

Guys please do not give mileage to retards like Bdutt, Sardesai, Padgaonkar, A Roy etc here. These rascals can sell their mothers if paid in $$.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Dec 25, 2012

Postby abhijitm » 10 Jan 2013 19:41

somebody killed 11 mader@@ds
A bomb attack killed 11 people and wounded dozens more in a crowded part of Pakistan's southwestern city of Quetta on Thursday, police said.
TV stations broadcast harrowing images of casualties being stretched from the scene. Heavily armed security officers were shown patrolling the site as people sifted through debris.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Dec 25, 2012

Postby vijayk » 10 Jan 2013 19:44

http://www.firstpost.com/world/does-man ... 83213.html

Consider the past: in 1948, Nehru agreed to a ceasefire in Kashmir when we were just about to drive the Pakistanis out of the state. In 1965, India vacated some of the most strategic conquests during the war (Haji Pir pass, for example) after the Tashkent peace agreement signed by Shastri. In 1971, even with 90,000 Pakistani soldiers held as prisoners of war, Iron Lady Indira Gandhi melted and failed to press home the advantage in the Shimla talks. In 1998-2001, Pakistan first reciprocated Vajpayee’s Lahore bus trip with Kargil. And then followed it up with an attack on Parliament. But after rushing troops to the border, Vajpayee meekly withdrew them in 2003 and resumed the peace process without conditions.

This government has, of course, been the pits. After 26/11, we saw some fire and brimstone domestic speeches, but Manmohan Singh has unilaterally decided to pursue peace with Pakistan. Once again.

Trying too hard to please Pakistan? Reuters
As Brahma Chellaney notes in an article in The Economic Times today, under Manmohan Singh India has simply abandoned the idea of seeking any kind of action against Hafiz Saeed or Pakistan-based terrorist groups. “Being nice with a determined adversary in the hope that this will change its behaviour is not strategy. With Singh dreaming of open borders with terror-exporting Pakistan, India’s Pakistan policy remains driven by hopes and gushy expectations, not statecraft.”

Chellaney offers two reasons why Pakistan has again changed tactics against India. One is the coming US disengagement from Afghanistan and the return of the US-Pakistani relationship to normality. Not only has the US resumed arms sales to Pakistan in a big way, but it has also started treating India and Pakistan on a par – as though terror-exporters and victims of terror ought to be treated equally. The sympathy that the US had for India after 9/11 is now gone. The other factor emboldening Pakistan is Manmohan Singh’s continued appeasement of Pakistan.

The US’ new neutrality towards India and Pakistan under Barack Obama – after George Bush’s efforts to correct the imbalance - is reflected in the statement made after Pakistan killed two Indian soldiers on our side of the Line of Control (LOC), and the reported ghastly mutilation of one of their bodies.

We’re urging both sides to take steps to end the violence. We continue to strongly support any efforts to improve relations between the two countries. We’ve also discussed these latest incidents with both governments, (and) urged them to talk to each other and urged calm,” the US State Department spokesperson Victoria Nuland told reporters.



http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 960866.cms

Words like "brutal", "heinous" and "savage" aptly describe the way a Pakistani army unit raided Indian territory and chopped two soldiers, taking away one severed head as a "trophy". The Indian outrage, however, must not blind us to the unpalatable truth: India is reaping what it sowed. New Delhi is staring at the bitter harvest of a decade-long policy seeking to appease a recalcitrant neighbor with unilateral concessions and gestures.


The "peace-at-any-price diplomacy" was started by prime minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee in an abrupt policy U-turn in 2003, and has been pursued with greater vigor by his successor, Manmohan Singh — interrupted only by the Pakistan-orchestrated Mumbai terrorist rampage of 2008.


The Pakistani military is drawing encouragement from two factors. The first factor is that the US-Pakistan relationship, after being on the boil for more than a year, has gradually returned to normalcy. That the US-Pakistan rift has healed is apparent from Washington's resumption of large-scale military aid and its coddling of the Pakistan army and ISI.

US aid to Pakistan is now at a historic high — at more than $3 billion a year. US policy, because of the exigencies of an exit strategy from Afghanistan, has permitted political expediency to trump long-term interests vis-a-vis Pakistan. The US has allowed even a key issue to fade away: how was Osama bin Laden able to hide deep inside Pakistan? The reason for that is the same as to why the US didn't pursue the AQ Khan case.

The second factor is the series of unilateral political concessions by India, including delinking dialogue from terrorism, and recognising Pakistan, the sponsor of terror, as a victim of terror. Whereas US policy has increased the Pakistani military's room for maneuver against India, Indian policy has both solidified Pakistani reluctance to bring the Mumbai-attack masterminds to justice and emboldened the Pakistani military to commit yet another act of aggression.

India has considerably eased pressure on Pakistan, both on the Mumbai-attack issue and on Hafiz Saeed, the militant leader who still preaches terrorism against India. India has also pursued a host of goodwill gestures, including resuming high-level political exchanges and cricketing ties and introducing a less-restricted visa regime for Pakistanis. All these moves, unfortunately, have sent the wrong message to Islamabad.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Dec 25, 2012

Postby vijayk » 10 Jan 2013 19:46

http://www.firstpost.com/world/we-are-f ... 81989.html

Pakistan’s brazen violation of the line of control (LOC)in Kashmir yesterday, and the even more provocative act of mutilating one of the bodies of the two Indian soldiers killed, is intended to send several messages. Some of it may be related to Pakistan’s internal political dynamics – including the coming elections and the likely change in the Chief of Army Staff – but the core message is to peaceniks in India, including the Prime Minister.

The message is simple: no matter what peace overtures we make, the Pakistani state will be in a permanent state of war till it achieves all its political and military objectives (Kashmir, Khalistan, etc). And it will use fair means and foul – terror, fake currency, et al. Peacetimes will be used to prepare for war – covert or overt.

The problem, though, is with us. When somebody is shouting from the rooftops “I hate you”, how is it that we don’t get the message, and still talk peace? We keep talking about confidence-building measures, when Pakistan has done absolutely nothing to build any kind of confidence in us about its peaceful intentions.


Here are six things we should never forget about Pakistan.

One, Pakistan’s reason for existence is anti-India. Unlike India, whose reason for existence is the idea of India (secularism, peace, prosperity, etc), the Pakistani state lives only for the sake of enmity to India. This means the idea of Pakistan is bankrupt beyond enmity to India. Till the Pakistanis – state and people – choose to define themselves positively, there is going to be no peace.

Two, if the idea of Pakistan is non-existent, and the idea of India is what enrages Pakistan, it means two things: the Pakistani state will always prepare for war, and the peaceful pauses are merely meant to give them breathing spaces to recuperate and build their war apparatus against us.

Three, there is no point differentiating between the Pakistani state and its people, which our romantic Aman ki Aasha peace-mongers keep drilling into us. The point of this distinction – between state and people – is meaningless since it is the Indian state that is trying to talk peace with the Pakistani state. It is not negotiating with the Pakistani people directly.

Four, if the idea of India has to win over the non-idea of Pakistan, we have to let them stew in their own juice till the illogic and foolishness of creating a state based on Islam and enmity to India is apparent to all thinking Pakistanis and the ordinary people. They have to abandon the idea themselves. As things stand, the people could easily fall prey to the violent ideologies of the Pakistani Taliban – and we have to be prepared for the fallout. We should always be ready for Pakistani perfidy – and this means not accepting any peace overtures at face value even if we decide to talk to them for the sake of world opinion.

Five, India must thus always keep the powder dry because Pakistan has always been preparing for a 1,000-year war. They know that our people have the tendency to forgive and forget Pakistani perfidies a little too quickly. This is why we have never learnt the lessons of 1948, 1965, 1971 and 1999 and 2008 (26/11). Pakistan is counting on the Indian (largely Hindu?) tendency to forget the past and move on even though they themselves will never forget. This is the greatest danger India faces today – our unwillingness to confront the truth about what our enemy is like.

Six, the Pakistanis understand only strength. We have to build our strengths against Pakistan – economically, militarily, and in terms of our terror-fighting capabilities. Till 1971, they underestimated our military strength. Now they underestimate our secularism and economic and strengths. But underpinning it all will be our ability to make Pakistan to pay a price for misadventures. This is what we need to focus on – making them pay.

Two markers will let us know if Pakistan has changed. And these are: the Pakistanis change their constitution to take Islam out of it. If Pakistan becomes truly secular, there is hope for peace. Second, the role of the army is clearly made subordinate to that of the civilian authority in Pakistan. If this happens, we can again begin taking the risk of talking peace with them.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Dec 25, 2012

Postby AbhiJ » 10 Jan 2013 19:58

lakshmikanth wrote:RajeshA,

It took me quite a lot of studies and personal effort to understand that Islam is at perpetual, constant war with external society and also has a constant revolution within itself internally. It does not come automatically and needs a lot of cognitive dissonance and cognitive bias against Hinduism to be culled from within.

All this after 20 odd years of reading news papers and magazines. The likes of Burkha Dutt either have not spent the time and energy to remove the cognitive bias they have against Hinduism to realize the threat that Islam is. Or even if they have she knows which side of the secular bread is buttered.


Sometime back here there was a discussion on Burqa Dutt's kind of Ladies and What makes up their Mentality.

Some common traits like: Too much Drinking, Feeling Mohammedian Body strongly satisfies them than the SRDE, Leftist Marxism is their Religion,........

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Dec 25, 2012

Postby Anujan » 10 Jan 2013 20:01

Ambedkar once said

The first thing which the Congress has failed to realise is that there is a difference between appeasement and settlement.... Appeasement means buying
off the aggressor by conniving at his acts of murder, rape, arson and loot against innocent persons.... On the other hand settlement means laying down the bounds which neither party to it can transgress. Appeasement sets no limits to demands and aspirations of the aggressors. Settlement does."


Prescient words.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Dec 25, 2012

Postby RamaY » 10 Jan 2013 20:09

I do not understand why this rhona-dhona on beheading of Indian soldiers.

Pakistan is an islamic state and islam believes in living/killing a certain way. Even though many modern ways exist to express one's anger even in killing, muslims all over the world believe in killing animals and enemies in certain religious ways. Irrespective of what non-muslims think and accept the world muslims do not deviate from their ritual life styles. There is a method to this, otherwise perceived, madness; which is to demonstrate the islamic being for the non-believer and create fear in their hearts.

Ritual slaughtering of animals, beheadings, suicide wests and human bombs are part of those rituals.

The non-muslim world is naive to accept certain aspects of this ritualistic life style of muslims while condemning others. When/where Islam is accepted as a legal religion and is treated same as other religions, then muslims of the world would not change their ways, irrespective of how ghastly they appear to non-muslims.

So when any non-muslim thinks and believes that Islam is a religion same as other religions and offers equal treatment, then they do not have any right to criticize islamic ways.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Dec 25, 2012

Postby James B » 10 Jan 2013 20:13

Allah-u-akbar

At least 19 people were killed and 47 injured in a blast in the Mingora city of Swat district on Thursday, confirmed officials at Saidu Sharif Hospital.

Image

19 gets 72 in swat and more on their way

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Dec 25, 2012

Postby abhijitm » 10 Jan 2013 20:18

^ 21 is the count now. 12 + 21 = 33 so far.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Dec 25, 2012

Postby johneeG » 10 Jan 2013 20:27

lakshmikanth ji,

It seems Burqa is a muslim. She did her post-grad in jamia-milia-islamia. It is rumoured that her second husband was fired from a bank for being close to anti-India Hurriyat. He was indulging in subterfuge at that bank. He is also an author of a book that talks about separate currency for J&K, so that eventually J&K can become 'independent'.

XDTV is owned by Roy who is a relative of Carat(the marxist). Roy's wife and Carat's wife are sisters. Recently, XDTV Roy is also the relative of Arundirty.

There are rumours that the channel is funded by X-ian missionary Org. located in spain. I can't find an article I had read about recent loans acquired by channel. It seems the channel was literally bankrupt, and was salvaged by the loans given by some missionaries in nordic country.

Vested interests... nepotism... corruption...

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Dec 25, 2012

Postby abhijitm » 10 Jan 2013 20:43

Her husband is Haseeb Drabu, a muslim. So most likely she is converted muslim.
Last edited by abhijitm on 10 Jan 2013 20:45, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Dec 25, 2012

Postby lakshmikanth » 10 Jan 2013 20:44

This is going OT, but my last on this:

I can completely understand why men who are not born into Islam accept Islam. It fits in their narcissistic (or sadistic) personality. I am completely confused over women who do the same. The only explanation I can come up with is either self-hatred of being born to powerless Hindus, or a desire to be dominated (i.e. masochist).

That would mean Islam at a personal level is a giant sado-masochistic ponzi scheme, but on a societal level it becomes a highly potent virus that destroys the pillars of its host society.

In any case, the sooner we realize it and plan against it the better.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Dec 25, 2012

Postby RajeshA » 10 Jan 2013 20:51

lakshmikanth ji,

Being OT here, I have taken the question to the "Understanding Islamic Society" Thread.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Dec 25, 2012

Postby Anujan » 10 Jan 2013 21:12

Another blast in Quetta. Timed to go off when media was there.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Dec 25, 2012

Postby abhijitm » 10 Jan 2013 21:15

Firing in Karachi. 7 a$$es holed.

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Dec 25, 2012

Postby James B » 10 Jan 2013 21:17

Great tidings from Bakistan

An armed clash between two hostile groups has claimed seven lives here in Karachi, Geo News reported.

The shootout was reported to have taken place near NADRA Hospital located in Sohrab Goth area


http://www.geo.tv/GeoDetail.aspx?ID=83254

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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Dec 25, 2012

Postby joygoswami » 10 Jan 2013 21:30

So what is the score, I guess this ?? : 22 (swat) + 11 (quetta) + 7 (Karachi) + 6 (waziristan) + 1 (LOC :roll: ) = 47

Thats too less.


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