Delhi Case Follow-up thread

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 12 Jan 2013 00:06

The chief minister, who arrived at the victim's native Medawar Kala village in Ballia, spent about half an hour with the family speaking to male members outside the house and later went inside to meet her mother and expressed his condolences.

The chief minister also presented a cheque of Rs. 20 lakhs to the parents of the girl.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-new ... 88209.aspx

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 12 Jan 2013 00:14

And hats off to Chanakya for predicting that the defense would claim the suspects were never even there....

..talk about chutzpah...

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 12 Jan 2013 00:38

why not 20L to all raped and murdered victims all over desh? send it by wire transfer right now!!!!

not a request to engage in crime, but this is insane in thinking money can bring back life!

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 12 Jan 2013 00:41

Virupaksha: No, I am not blaming the PCR or Cops, I am wondering why an amublance was not sent.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 12 Jan 2013 00:46

Theo_Fidel wrote:And hats off to Chanakya for predicting that the defense would claim the suspects were never even there.... ..talk about chutzpah...

What if this was committed by rich spoiled brats from families with political connections? These bakras could have been stand-ins for them. The stand-in bakras are not going to be squeaky clean, they will have dirt in their records. The identification process went so quickly.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 12 Jan 2013 01:09

The principal of a school attended by a juvenile accused in the December 16 gang-rape case has failed to prove the claim that his age was under 18 years, police sources said on Monday.

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_de ... al_1786666

http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Del ... 282264.ece

Yet another juvenile involved in rape

However, even if the bone test proves he is over 18, it is unlikely to mean he will face an adult trial as India's Juvenile Justice Act mean the test result cannot take precedence over documentary evidence - the school leaving certificate. The bone density test cannot accurately pinpoint his date of birth.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/42176 ... t-bone.htm

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 12 Jan 2013 10:31

^^There is every possibility that the Principal could have given false certificate as it has to base on some primary evidence. And the juvenile in the gangrape case had not passed matriculation. The certificate finally issued at the 10th Board is generally taken as final. Any other school document such as transfer certificate or school leaving certificate or Admit cards are not final or acceptable as legal tender. It needs to be supported by other documents if doubts are raised. Only 10th Certificate carries the legally accepted DOB and serious doubts can not be raised and any other DOB needs to be proved by corroborating documents.

I am sure once bone test reports are filed that juvenile would be treated as adult. But still defence would have a strong case for the Juvenile to be let off in three years. In any case he would not get death sentence, however heinous his part may be. 10 years or life at the most.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 12 Jan 2013 14:25

here is main accused Ram Singh, a known drunkard and into brawl all time

kenop · Post by **kenop** » 12 Jan 2013 15:31

Not reported in the media. Swamy has knocked on door of the juvenile court to pray for considering the 6th (or is it 7th?) accused as an adult due to the extreme nature of the crime.
http://twitter.com/Swamy39/status/289292331046285312

I am in the Juvenile Court to argue that Magistrate has discretion to treat rapist butcher as adult under SC judgments.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 12 Jan 2013 15:47

As far as the Western media is concerned, (is there any other?), the story has been singularly about "How little does a woman's life count in India"!

It has singularly been one of emphasizing the degradation of Indian society! Of course, we know that in Western media every kind of reporting about the rest of the world revolves around showing just how superior they are to the rest, and to convincing their public and the rest of the world of this.

Basically the Islamo-Christianist Cabal in India destroys the underpinnings of society, law and order, in India while the Dharmics pick the tab when it comes to image!

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 12 Jan 2013 15:48

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/01/1 ... 5K20130112

Delhi rape accused lived on margins of India's boom

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 12 Jan 2013 15:51

@RajeshA-quite true, cases like Jimmy Savile prove that , when the criminals are white skinned home grown, it takes long to catch them.

Anantha · Post by **Anantha** » 12 Jan 2013 20:02

RajeshA wrote:As far as the Western media is concerned, (is there any other?), the story has been singularly about "How little does a woman's life count in India"!

It has singularly been one of emphasizing the degradation of Indian society! Of course, we know that in Western media every kind of reporting about the rest of the world revolves around showing just how superior they are to the rest, and to convincing their public and the rest of the world of this.

Basically the Islamo-Christianist Cabal in India destroys the underpinnings of society, law and order, in India while the Dharmics pick the tab when it comes to image!

Very true. Look at the coverage (lack of) on the Ohio kidnapping/ Rape case that is being covered up by the whole town and society. The moment you criticize India in front of a westerner no matter how well meaning you/him, her are, it turns into a India bashing (read Hindu culture) exercise. The western mind is brainwashed about India with things like Caste system, poverty and lack of toilets.
In this case I have seen people arguing in the following ways:
Before Jan 6th when the name was revealed
Rapes on untouchables by upper caste are common in India
After Jan 6th
Indians are protesting loud because the victim is an upper caste girl, they would not have done it if the victim was a dalit.
When ever some one from the west condescendingly talks on the Delhi Rape, need to challenge them with the number of rapes in the west including the number of rapes by US army men on US army women.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 12 Jan 2013 21:11

IndraD wrote:http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/01/1 ... 5K20130112

Delhi rape accused lived on margins of India's boom

Can understand when articles like these appear in UK media, but when they appear as front report on Times of India, it is hard to understand which side our media is on, us or them? It is shameful that leading newspapers have no self respect.

But mango people are no fool either look at the responses:

here starts drama again. background story of these criminals. How does it matter? They havenot done a small petty crime. Being poor doesn't imbibe such beastality . Stop this now

Agree (62)
Disagree (4)
Recommend (33)

Just hang these monsters... Not interested in their sob tale!

Agree (80)
Disagree (2)
Recommend (32)

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 995499.cms

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 12 Jan 2013 22:14

chaanakya wrote:^^There is every possibility that the Principal could have given false certificate as it has to base on some primary evidence. And the juvenile in the gangrape case had not passed matriculation. The certificate finally issued at the 10th Board is generally taken as final.

How is this legally tenable I wonder? The only acceptable document can be a birth certificate issued by the local authority, failing which scientific evidence should control.

This is because the school does not have to have intentionally given a false certificate. The principal would have asked whoever presented the boy for admission to the school for a date of birth. In the absence of the birth certificate, the person accompanying the boy would have guessed at the date. In this situation, mistakes are quite common, and are ignored, since it is not a life or death concern.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 13 Jan 2013 00:03

Well then Principal has to show on what basis he recorded DOB, which woul not be final unless gets recorded in 10th certificate. Or he has to say that he did not record correct DOB as no documents were available. Let him state facts rather than letting away a criminal. Let the court decide.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 13 Jan 2013 00:28

SwamyG wrote: What if this was committed by rich spoiled brats from families with political connections? These bakras could have been stand-ins for them. The stand-in bakras are not going to be squeaky clean, they will have dirt in their records. The identification process went so quickly.

You know you are just talking out of your ass. I took some flak here going against folks here bringing in all their pet issues into what is primarily a law and order problem and how pathetic our law and order institutions are.

Why saar. Why this kolaveri with outlandish CT stuff

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 13 Jan 2013 01:00

SaiK wrote:why not 20L to all raped and murdered victims all over desh? send it by wire transfer right now!!!!

not a request to engage in crime, but this is insane in thinking money can bring back life!

In cases like these where state failed to protect a potential bread winner for family, where victim's education was sponsored by selling land and working 2 shifts in a day, compensation is justified (IMHO). I agree it should not be selective. This picture of victim's family and house appeared in mirror UK

SriKumar · Post by **SriKumar** » 13 Jan 2013 01:25

^^^ The above pictures shows the condition that the larger Pandey family lives in. I believe that this is a picture of their (relative's?) house in Ballia where the 'Mirror' interviewed them (and not at their house in Delhi). You will note there are no windows.....just holes in walls, with a free flow of air into the room which is probably the only source of fresh air after the door is shut. Anyone who's lived around there will know what this means in winter..... during the cold nights (added later: when temperature can get to 5 deg. C or less). The floor is covered with straw to give some feel of warmth (probably made of brick/cement). No electricity in room. These people do not have much. All that can be said for them is that they have a roof plus 4 walls.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 13 Jan 2013 02:51

A recent case in Richmond California and the sentencing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Richm ... _gang_rape

Note Indian laws are wrong on juvenile culpability.
Some Marxists/Leftists/Liberals/Minority appeasers have diluted them to make them toothless.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 13 Jan 2013 02:57

Veeresh Malik in TOI

Delhi Rape Case -The Buck Stops where?

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 13 Jan 2013 03:10

"That boy everyone calls juvenile; he beat her with an iron rod. He inserted it into her body till it went all the way up and yanked it out, and with it, her intestines. As she shouted for him to stop, he screamed at her, 'Saali, mar! (Die, bitch)'

while the older one recounted how Nirbhaya, even when she was on ventilator support, asked him whether he was attending his coaching classes regularly.

thia juvenile is a psychopath, he shouldn't be released at any cost
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 001023.cms

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 13 Jan 2013 03:19

Srikumar,

And yet that same family sold land to send its daughter to the highest education they possibly could. There are two India's out there and the economic picture alone does not define it.

JohnTitor · Post by **JohnTitor** » 13 Jan 2013 03:39

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/in ... gh-1531932

^^ thats the article IndiraD is referring to. Its heart breaking

JohnTitor · Post by **JohnTitor** » 13 Jan 2013 03:48

Actually, the mirror has a whole section for her: http://www.mirror.co.uk/all-about/jyoti%20singh

theres even an interview with the father

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 13 Jan 2013 04:12

Excerpt from the above excellent article:

In Malaysia women are told to forsake lipstick if they want to be safe. The Italian courts in 1999 cleared an alleged rapist on the grounds his victim was wearing tight jeans. And in the UK, on an almost annual basis, police forces run rape safety campaigns which tell women not to let themselves be raped. Because good girls don't get raped, do they?

The reason Jyoti was raped wasn't because she was in India. It was because she met some rapists.

And they're everywhere. They're in Norway, Sweden, America, Britain. You'll probably walk past one at some point this week, and a few victims too. There's far more of them than there are yoga gurus, or self-pitying sex-pigs who insist the woman is always to blame.

It doesn't just happen in poor, dirty, backward places - it happens in rich, clean, backward places too.

At least in India there are more victims coming forward. At least they are having vigils, and protests, and annoying the government enough it rolls out the tear gas and riot squads.

What do we do?

Jyoti Singh-UK attitude to Rape

SriKumar · Post by **SriKumar** » 13 Jan 2013 04:39

Theo_Fidel wrote:Srikumar, And yet that same family sold land to send its daughter to the highest education they possibly could. There are two India's out there and the economic picture alone does not define it.

Did not follow the point you are trying to make.

SriKumar · Post by **SriKumar** » 13 Jan 2013 04:49

The 'Hindu' claims that the father of the rape victim did not give consent to reveal name.
http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/no ... 281284.ece

“We contacted him over phone on Sunday and enquired about it. He has categorically denied that he had given his approval to make his daughter’s name public. We had a conversation with him on Saturday also, during which he reiterated that his daughter’s name should not be revealed,” said a senior police officer.

First question, did 'the Mirror' overstate the situation? Why did the police get involved with this, was it the Delhi police who called them, by the way? I suppose they are thinking of filing a case against UK magazine 'The Mirror'. Question to mods: Do BRF mods have an opinion either way on using the name?

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 13 Jan 2013 14:34

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 001023.cms

BALLIA: Nirbhaya's mother sits alone on a cot in a narrow, windowless room, huddled under a quilt. Outside, her husband and sons are performing the last of the 13-day rites. This is the day when village elders announce Nirbhaya must now, officially, be forgotten. But her mother insists on remembering her.

"That boy everyone calls juvenile; he beat her with an iron rod. He inserted it into her body till it went all the way up and yanked it out, and with it, her intestines. As she shouted for him to stop, he screamed at her, 'Saali, mar! (Die, bitch)' Yet the law calls him a juvenile."

This is the first time that the mother has spoken out. She told TOI that she wants the whole world to know of this horrific act. This was what Nirbhaya told her, the story of the brutality she was subjected to. The words constantly ring in the mother's ears; they have left behind nightmarish memories that no exhortation to forget can erase.

"From nursery onwards, she was a bright child. She always topped her class. We had grand dreams for her. A few lakh rupees cannot replace my child. The culprits beat her to death. Now the only thing that will satisfy us is to see them punished. For what they did to her, they deserve to die."

Family members say there is no dearth of reminders that keep their wounds fresh. On Saturday morning, hours before they began the last rites, the family broke down again, as they went through a bag full of Nirbhaya's clothes.

Her younger brother has saved a lock of her hair as remembrance, while the older one recounted how Nirbhaya, even when she was on ventilator support, asked him whether he was attending his coaching classes regularly.

"He lied; he said he missed just one class, even when he was with her in hospital every day," Nirbhaya's cousin said.

'Told mom every detail'

They may have faced the milling crowds bravely, but inside, as he sees his mother's eyes fill with tears, Nirbhaya's younger brother, says, "We saw what they did to her. She told us, my mother especially, what that man who claims to be a juvenile did to her. Even in the state she was, she told us everything. We want you to know and write of it because that brutality was beyond imagination. He doesn't deserve a second chance; he deserves only death."

Outside, Nirbhaya's father is less vocal. He appears to be stoic about his tragedy. But family members say they've seen him weep bitterly when he's alone. "The night after he arrived, he told us he was shaken by the state Didi was in at the hospital. He told us he suspected she would not survive, but said nothing, knowing it would break Nirbhaya's mother," a family member said.

Now, as the family prepares for 'Noone Milan' (a ceremony where Nirbhaya's father will be allowed to have salt and mingle with the family again), political leaders drop in, one after the other. Cheques are handed out, condolence speeches are made. All the while, Nirbhaya's father sits, his head lowered. He remains silent.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 13 Jan 2013 15:50

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/s ... epage=true

Admitting that the protests after the gangrape incident were a “wake up” call, Chief Minister Sheila Dikshit has taken on the Delhi Police for lack of faith the people have in it due to its “insensitive” approach.

She also suggested that Prime Minister Manmohan Singh’s address to the nation on the December 16 incident could have come a little earlier instead of a week after the “horrendous” crime

wake up call ka matlab? She accepts she was sleeping till now?

jane kisko bewkoof bana rahe hai..and do not understand why she is at loggerhead with MMS and Delhi police, there is a big game under way, may be her existence is at risk.

JohnTitor · Post by **JohnTitor** » 13 Jan 2013 16:33

SriKumar wrote:Question to mods: Do BRF mods have an opinion either way on using the name?

I suspect thehindu to be wrong. If the mirror published her name, I am sure they would taken written consent. If nothing, the UK is full of legalities and being "on the right side of the law" in protecting themselves from law-suits.

Moreover, if you search her name on google, there are loads of articles "revealing" her name.

Delhi gang-rape: Victim's father wants world to know her real name

"At first I wanted to see the men responsible face to face but I don't want to any more. I just want to hear that the courts have punished them and they will be hanged," the newspaper quoted the father as saying.

"Death for all six of them. These men are beasts. They should be made an example of and that society will not allow such things to happen," the girl's father said.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 13 Jan 2013 19:51

http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-new ... 88924.aspx

It is shocking and depressing that the culprit Amit got away in this case, now more cases are tumbling out (would say it is a contribution of victim's death and support she got). Photo of offenders like them should be made public so that their daily life is made hell..
And in this case why is govt hiding their faces? I read today that human right activists have asked govt to provide security to these 5 people in Tihar (!) as they are thrashed in and out.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 14 Jan 2013 01:44

Looks like Sheila aunty has a spat with center. She blames DP for the incident and the PM for being tardy in his response. She doesn't want to be scapegoated.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 14 Jan 2013 10:07

IndraD wrote:http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-new ... 88924.aspx

It is shocking and depressing that the culprit Amit got away in this case, now more cases are tumbling out (would say it is a contribution of victim's death and support she got). Photo of offenders like them should be made public so that their daily life is made hell..
And in this case why is govt hiding their faces? I read today that human right activists have asked govt to provide security to these 5 people in Tihar (!) as they are thrashed in and out.

Rape was not taken as a serious crime.Judges are no exception and instead of being a trend setter they merely follow societal prejudices. Coupled with their infinite tolerance with crime and criminals situation would become soon explosive. Add to this political pardons and parole, criminal politicians , Police collusion and apathy and mix is ripe for explosion.

sum · Post by **sum** » 14 Jan 2013 11:16

Another horrible case:

Bihar: Train passenger gang-raped, hung from a tree

In a grim reminder of the horrific Delhi [ Images ] rape case, a woman who got down from a Delhi-bound train in Bhagalpur district, was gang-raped, killed and her body hung from a tree in a mango orchard.

Police said the 32-year-old victim, who was a passenger of the Brahmaputra Mail that was travelling to the national capital, was dragged to the mango orchard and gang-raped by unidentified persons after she alighted from the train between Vikramshila and Kahalgaon stations.

IIRC, such cases of rape+murder would increase soon after the furore of the Delhi case due to which future rape accused might have no mercy from courts atleast till furore dies down. So, easiest for these scum would be rape and then kill so that no one is there to finger them

SriKumar · Post by **SriKumar** » 14 Jan 2013 11:50

^^^ The above is ... unbelievable; specially coming after the Delhi rape. Hanging from a tree sounds like they are making a statement (I could be wrong....). This cruelty is beyond my understanding.

Shonu wrote: I suspect thehindu to be wrong. If the mirror published her name, I am sure they would taken written consent. If nothing, the UK is full of legalities and being "on the right side of the law" in protecting themselves from law-suits

What you say sounds very plausible, so it is doubly confusing that (i) the police actually called to verify and (ii) the statement was retracted, and (iii) 'the Mirror' has not countered this news.

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 14 Jan 2013 14:51

Was reading the work sarva-siddhanta-sangraha (survey of all doctrines), a work attributed to Shankara, and the author quotes Brihaspati's school of skepticism (Lokayata) as follows:

पातिव्रत्यादिसङ्केतो बुद्धिमद्दुर्बलैः कृतः।

"'Devotion to one's husband' and other such ordinances are laid down by clever weaklings." [2nd chapter verse 12]

Reminded me of some recent utterances from "pro-dharmic" and anti-dharmic demagogues about the relationship between Indic values and rape or subjugation of our women by other ways...

Here's the passage this quote is taken from - posted on Sanskrit nukkad.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 14 Jan 2013 21:14

In 2013, all the convicted rapists cum murderers of 2004 would have been released. Next year all the convicted rapists and murderers of 2005 would have been released..and so on. Public notices on released rapists and weekly notification to the local thana or GPS tags for life should be made mandatory for released rapists and maybe release after a longer time..

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 14 Jan 2013 21:42

Harbans, Compare and contrast the govt response in US to the school shooting outrage and the response in India to the gang rape and murder outrage. Tomorrow the US VP is presenting hard concrete proposals on how to mitigate the school shooting outrage.

In India the govt gives the job to some retired Judge who most probably released rapists to repeat the crime.

Has anyone done background check on Justice Verma to see if has released rapists in his tenture?

I am not too happy with CJI Kabir giving polemics on innocence of accused. Yes that was important in the Norman times when Anglo-Saxons were accused of crimes and killed.
Modern ideas shouldnt be invoked to judge crimes committed by pre-modern minds.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 14 Jan 2013 22:12

Another one of the five men charged as adults is claiming to be a juvenile.

India rape suspect's lawyer demands age test, says client is actually a minor