Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Dec 25, 2012

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 30 Jan 2013 07:11

chetak wrote:
SSridhar ji,

paki textiles (cotton) are high end and very expensive. Only geared towards an export market. Indian cotton textiles are low end and have mass appeal (cheap and best ) and an already existing huge local market. There will be great demand for very affordable Indian cotton textiles in pakiland but subdued demand for their cotton textiles in India. Paki cotton textiles are available in high end shops in Delhi. Very fine stuff and also very expensive. I baulked at the ridiculous prices. We have little to fear. We each service different ends of the market and don't have the capacity to venture into the others space. They don't seem to have a large synthetic cloth production capacity which we already have in abundance. As far as textiles are concerned we may have their testimonials in a vice.

May be some hand crafted stuff from pakistan is expensive. But the real cheap stuff in Walmart is from Pakistan. The relative more expensive stuff is from India. Even if you consider other branded clothes, I find more stuff from India and rarely from pakistan. I find more stuff from BD than from pakistan.

anishns · Post by **anishns** » 30 Jan 2013 07:27

SRK is nothing but a closet paki

http://www.firstpost.com/bollywood/king ... 03618.html

arun · Post by **arun** » 30 Jan 2013 07:39

The complete transcript of article authored by Shahrukh Khan titled “Being A Khan” that appeared in the New York Times associated Outlook Turning Points magazine is below:

Being a Khan

I am an actor. Time does not frame my days with as much conviction as images do. Images rule my life. Moments and memories imprint themselves on my being in the form of the snapshots that I weave into my expression. The essence of my art is the ability to create images that resonate with the emotional imagery of those watching them.

I am a Khan. The name itself conjures multiple images in my mind too: a strapping man riding a horse, his reckless hair flowing from beneath a turban tied firm around his head. His ruggedly handsome face marked by weathered lines and a distinctly large nose.

A stereotyped extremist; no dance, no drink, no cigarette tipping off his lips, no monogamy, no blasphemy; a fair, silent face beguiling a violent fury smoldering within. A streak that could even make him blow himself up in the name of his God. Then there is the image of me being shoved into a back room of a vast American airport named after an American president (another parallel image: of the president being assassinated by a man named lee, not a Muslim thankfully, nor Chinese as some might imagine! I urgently shove the image of the room out of my head).

Some stripping, frisking and many questions later, I am given an explanation (of sorts): "Your name pops up on our system, we are sorry". "So am I," I think to myself, "Now can I have my underwear back please?" Then, there is the image I most see, the one of me in my own country: being acclaimed as a megastar, adored and glorified, my fans mobbing me with love and apparent adulation.

I am a Khan.

I could say I fit into each of these images: I could be a strapping six feet something - ok something minus, about three inches at least, though I don't know much about horse-riding. A horse once galloped off with me flapping helplessly on it and I have had a "no horse-riding" clause embedded in my contracts ever since.

I am extremely muscular between my ears, I am often told by my kids, and I used to be fair too, but now I have a perpetual tan or as I like to call it 'olive hue' - though deep In the recesses of my armpits I can still find the remains of a fairer day. I am handsome under the right kind of light and I really do have a "distinctly large" nose. It announces my arrival in fact, peeking through the doorway just before I make my megastar entrance. But my nose notwithstanding, my name means nothing to me unless I contextualize it.

Stereotyping and contextualizing is the way of the world we live in: a world in which definition has become central to security. We take comfort in defining phenomena, objects and people - with a limited amount of knowledge and along known parameters. The predictability that naturally arises from these definitions makes us feel secure within our own limitations.

We create little image boxes of our own. One such box has begun to draw its lid tighter and tighter at present. It is the box that contains an image of my religion in millions of minds.

I encounter this tightening of definition every time moderation is required to be publicly expressed by the Muslim community in my country. Whenever there is an act of violence in the name of Islam, I am called upon to air my views on it and dispel the notion that by virtue of being a Muslim, I condone such senseless brutality. I am one of the voices chosen to represent my community in order to prevent other communities from reacting to all of us as if we were somehow colluding with or responsible for the crimes committed in the name of a religion that we experience entirely differently from the perpetrators of these crimes.

I sometimes become the inadvertent object of political leaders who choose to make me a symbol of all that they think is wrong and unpatriotic about Muslims in india. There have been occasions when I have been accused of bearing allegiance to our neighboring nation rather than my own country - this even though I am an Indian whose father fought for the freedom of India. Rallies have been held where leaders have exhorted me to leave my home and return to what they refer to as my "original homeland". Of course, I politely decline each time, citing such pressing reasons as sanitation words at my house preventing me from taking the good shower that's needed before undertaking such an extensive journey. I don't know how long this excuse will hold though.

I gave my son and daughter names that could pass for generic (pan-Indian and pan-religious) ones: Aryan and Suhana. The Khan has been bequeathed by me so they can't really escape it. I pronounce it from my epiglottis when asked by Muslims and throw the Aryan as evidence of their race when non-Muslims enquire.

I imagine this will prevent my offspring from receiving unwarranted eviction orders and random fatwas in the future. It will also keep my two children completely confused. Sometimes, they ask me what religion they belong to and, like a good Hindi movie hero, I roll my eyes up to the sky and declare philosophically, "You are an Indian first and your religion is humanity", or sing them an old Hindi film ditty, "Tu Hindu banega na Musalmaan banega - insaan ki aulaad hai insaan banega" set to Gangnam Style.

None of this informs them with any clarity, it just confounds them some more and makes them deeply wary of their father.

In the land of the freed, where I have been invited on several occasions to be honored, I have bumped into ideas that put me in a particular context. I have had my fair share of airport delays for instance.

I became so sick of being mistaken for some crazed terrorist who coincidentally carries the same last name as mine that I made a film, subtly titled My name is Khan (and I am not a terrorist) to prove a point. Ironically, I was interrogated at the airport for hours about my last name when I was going to present the film in America for the first time. I wonder, at times, whether the same treatment is given to everyone whose last name just happens to be McVeigh (as in Timothy)??

I don't intend to hurt any sentiments, but truth be told, the aggressor and taker of life follows his or her own mind. It has to nothing to do with a name, a place or his/her religion. It is a mind that has its discipline, its own distinction of right from wrong and its own set of ideologies. In fact, one might say, it has its own "religion". This religions has nothing to do with the ones that have existed for centuries and been taught in mosques or churches. The call of the azaan or the words of the pope have no bearing on this person's soul. His soul is driven by the devil. I, for one, refuse to be contextualized by the ignorance of his ilk.

I am a Khan.

I am neither six-feet-tall nor handsome (I am modest though) nor am I a Muslim who looks down on other religions. I have been taught my religion by my six-foot-tall, handsome Pathan 'Papa' from Peshawar, where his proud family and mine still resides. He was a member of the no-violent Pathan movement called Khudai Khidamatgaar and a follower of both Gandhiji and Khan Abdul Gaffar Khan, who was also known as the Frontier Gandhi.

My first learning of Islam from him was to respect women and children and to uphold the dignity of every human being. I learnt that the property and decency of others, their points of view, their beliefs, their philosophies and their religions were due as much respect as my own and ought to be accepted with an open mind. I learnt to believe in the power and benevolence of Allah, and to be gentle and kind to my fellow human beings, to give of myself to those less privileged than me and to live a life full of happiness, joy, laughter and fun without impinging on anybody else's freedom to live in the same way.

So I am a Khan, but no stereotyped image is factored into my idea of who I am. Instead, the living of my life has enabled me to be deeply touched by the love of millions of Indians. I have felt this love for the last 20 years regardless of the fact that my community is a minority within the population of India. I have been showered with love across national and cultural boundaries, from Suriname to Japan and Saudi Arabia to Germany, places where they don't even understand my language. They appreciate what I do for them as an entertainer - that's all. My life has led me to understand and imbibe that love is a pure exchange, untempered by definition and unfettered by the narrowness of limiting ideas. If each one of us allowed ourselves the freedom to accept and return love in its purity, we would need no image boxes to hold up the walls of our security.

I believe that I have been blessed with the opportunity to experience the magnitude of such a love, but I also know that its scale is irrelevant. In our own small ways, simply as human beings, we can appreciate each other for how touch our lives and not how our different religions or last names define us.

Beneath the guise of my superstardom, I am an ordinary man. My Islamic stock does not conflict with that of my Hindu wife's. The only disagreements I have with Gauri concern the color of the walls in our living room and not about the locations of the walls demarcating temples from mosques in India.

We are bringing up a daughter who pirouettes in a leotard and choreographs her own ballets. She sings western songs that confound my sensibilities and aspires to be an actress. She also insists on covering her head when in a Muslim nation that practices this really beautiful and much misunderstood tenet of Islam.

Our son's linear features proclaim his Pathan pedigree although he carries his own, rather gentle mutations of the warrior gene. He spends all day either pushing people asie at rugby, kicking some butt at Tae Kwon Do or eliminating unknown faces behind anonymous online gaming handles around the world with The Call of Duty video game. And yet, he firmly admonishes me for getting into a minor scuffle at the cricket stadium in Mumbai last year because some bigot make unsavory remarks about me being a Khan.

The four of us make up a motley representation of the extraordinary acceptance and validation that love can foster when exchanged within the exquisiteness of things that are otherwise defined ordinary.

For I believe, our religion is an extremely personal choice, not a public proclamation of who we are. It's as person as the spectacles of my father who passed away some 20 years ago. Spectacles that I hold onto as my most prized and personal possession of his memories, teachings and of being a proud Pathan. I have never compared those with my friends, who have similar possessions of their parents or grandparents. I have never said my father's spectacles are better than your mother's saree. So why should we have this comparison in the matter of religion, which is as personal and prized a belief as the memories of your elders. Why should not the love we share be the last word in defining us instead of the last name? It doesn't take a superstar to be able to give love, it just takes a heart and as far as I know, there isn't a force on this earth that can deprive anyone of theirs.

I am a Khan, and that's what it has meant being one, despite the stereotype images that surround me. To be a Khan has been to be loved and love back - that the promise that virgins wait for me somewhere on the other side.

Shah Rukh Khan

From here:

Clicky

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 30 Jan 2013 07:45

Cant help but notice the frequent mentions of, Tall, Fair, Handsome and Aryan...

Maybe all the jokes on pindi channa has resulted in tight ass going out of fashion.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 30 Jan 2013 08:01

Resumption of amAn kI tamAsha - hum nahI sudharenge.

NightWatch For the night of 28 January 2013 wrote: India-Pakistan: Update. Cross-border bus service between India and Pakistan in the central Poonch sector of the Line of Control in Kashmir resumed on the 28th. Authorities suspended bus service and cross-border trade after clashes along between Indian and Pakistani security forces earlier in January. Officials said 64 passengers from Pakistan crossed to India while 84 went in the other direction on the bus service from Poonch to Rawalakot.

This is tonight's good news.

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 30 Jan 2013 08:02

Jus Punjabi channel in USA (new york) is now controlled by ISI. Their punjabi speaking ISI agent was on TV today named Saleem Ahmad Malik and he cut me off 6 times!!

Spread this news as fast as you can!!! This channel is being viewed by Punjabis and Sikhs all over USA, Canada due to its 75% religious (Gurbani) broadcast!!!

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 30 Jan 2013 08:16

Gentlemen, we are veering off from the focus of this thread, can we all get back to Paki bashing?! Thanks!

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 30 Jan 2013 08:16

SSridhar wrote:Leave alone cotton, automobiles etc. The question is, "Does TSP want to have a normal, decent state-to-state relationship with us or not". The rest would follow.

SSridhar ji, even though I know yours is a rhetorical question, let me repeat the obvious - theie real answer is "No" while pretending to be saying "Yes" which our Pols do see through but are also pretending (for some chAnakyan reason, I hope) to believe them.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 30 Jan 2013 08:40

SBajwa wrote:Jus Punjabi channel in USA (new york) is now controlled by ISI. Their punjabi speaking ISI agent was on TV today named Saleem Ahmad Malik and he cut me off 6 times!!
Spread this news as fast as you can!!! This channel is being viewed by Punjabis and Sikhs all over USA, Canada due to its 75% religious (Gurbani) broadcast!!!

I happend to watch this channel last month at my friend's place and thinking whats wrong with the guy there.

Anantha · Post by **Anantha** » 30 Jan 2013 08:41

The key to defeating Islamists in prominent position, like SRK, is to make Pakis into impotents. The more Pakis show their pakiness the faster the closet Islamists will distance themselves from Pakiland.
For the 1st time in ages, today we saw a GOI spokesman tell a paki Minister (Rehman Malik) to look at their own problems 1st, before commenting on SRK

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 30 Jan 2013 08:57

matrimc wrote:
SSridhar wrote:Leave alone cotton, automobiles etc. The question is, "Does TSP want to have a normal, decent state-to-state relationship with us or not". The rest would follow.
SSridhar ji, even though I know yours is a rhetorical question, let me repeat the obvious - theie real answer is "No" while pretending to be saying "Yes" which our Pols do see through but are also pretending (for some chAnakyan reason, I hope) to believe them.

matrimc, that's the chAnakyan reason I am unable to understand, try as I might. Just remember that this question goes back to 1947, even earlier. I have been straining (to the point of getting hemorrhoids) to see the benefits to India, but none I could see though I must admit I may be dense.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 30 Jan 2013 09:03

Anantha wrote:The key to defeating Islamists in prominent position, like SRK, is to make Pakis into impotents. The more Pakis show their pakiness the faster the closet Islamists will distance themselves from Pakiland.
For the 1st time in ages, today we saw a GOI spokesman tell a paki Minister (Rehman Malik) to look at their own problems 1st, before commenting on SRK

I see in SRK a twin identity as Pathan (Muslim) and Indian. A few months ago (before RajeshA drew my attention away with AIT/OIT) I was trying to dig deep into "Pathanism" and discovered that Aishwayra Rai is included in a Pathan site as a fellow Aryan. Tall Fair TFTA Aryan is a Pathan thing and Pakjabis are second in trying to claim that.

Pathans have (according to what i read) traditionally owed allegiance to whatever nation the live in and are more concerned about clan identity than a particular nation. Paki Pathans have taken to Pakistan and Afghan pathans to Afghanistan and Indian Pathans to India (and according to one site) American Pathans to America. They all converted to Islam early and their allegiance to Islam seems to be similar to their clan identity, but my personal impression is clan identity used to trump Islam until Al Qaeda.

Of late it seems that Pakis have pissed off some percentage of Pathans, while others remain loyal to the Paki identity. But to me it seems like a useful trick to pander to a Pathan, Aryan TFTA identity simply to screw Pakis and foster a Pakhtunistan mindset - a place where all Pathans can relate to (and migrate) if they want.

r_subramanian · Post by **r_subramanian** » 30 Jan 2013 09:08

It can only happen in Pakistan. A PIA flight from Karachi to Islamabad is diverted to Lahore so that a daughter of a PIA official can get off the flight. Short report. Posting in full.

Islamabad-bound flight lands in Lahore
Islamabad-bound PIA flight, which took off from Karachi, landed at Lahore airport allegedly to drop the airline officer’s daughter, sources said.

According to the sources, the flight PK-562 was on the way from Karachi to Islamabad when it was diverted to Lahore to drop the daughter of PIA officer Tariq Javed.

The passengers were told that the plane was landed in Lahore due to some technical reasons {!}

link: http://www.thenews.com.pk/article-85899 ... -in-Lahore

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 30 Jan 2013 09:19

DipankarJi, just one more from me on SRK and then to TSP bashing, bu Anantha, have you noticed SRK doesn't have the b@lls nor the guts to raise a little finger at US for the humiliating treatment meted out to him. The manner in which people in India bend over to suck up to this puke tells you how bogus Indian secularim is and has rendered India, all but a eunuch country in its inability to articulate how different it is from the TSP abomination.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 30 Jan 2013 09:19

shiv wrote:
Anantha wrote:. . . and their allegiance to Islam seems to be similar to their clan identity, but my personal impression is clan identity used to trump Islam until Al Qaeda.

Absolutely and hence the 'Pakhtunwali' code of conduct took precedence over the Koran & Shariah. This is exactly what the Salafi/Takfiri/Wahhabi extremists broke to create the Taliban and now the TTP. One of the techniques used in FATA was to wipe out the jirga elders. The other was to create fear and implement their own version of interpretation of Islam.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 30 Jan 2013 09:19

r_subramanian wrote:It can only happen in Pakistan. A PIA flight from Karachi to Islamabad is diverted to Lahore so that a daughter of a PIA official can get off the flight.

Sudden tubelight blinking on in my mind. Someone had posted elsewhere about how one's career in the Pakistan army can be terminated with just a word from a senior officer. Darwinism means that only those officers who do their best to please their seniors no matter what is demanded are the ones who get to rise, and the fruits of a rise are juicy and plentiful. This also explains why there are no revolts - because people who rock the boat are eliminated early.

It is certain that PIA operates the same way. If the boss daughter has to be dropped off, the pilot complies, saying fuk you to anyone who might dream of objecting.

Anantha · Post by **Anantha** » 30 Jan 2013 09:26

CRamS wrote:DipankarJi, just one more from me on SRK and then to TSP bashing, bu Anantha, have you noticed SRK doesn't have the b@lls nor the guts to raise a little finger at US for the humiliating treatment meted out to him. The manner in which people in India bend over to suck up to this puke tells you how bogus Indian secularim is and has rendered India, all but a eunuch country in its inability to articulate how different it is from the TSP abomination.

Good catch CRamS, every time he tries to enter US (including a private jet flt directly into White Plains NY), he is shown his place as a top hijda. One of the reasons he wont speak up against US is due to the dossier that US maintains on his extra curricular activities, they hold his chaddi ka nada.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 30 Jan 2013 09:30

CRamS wrote: how bogus Indian secularim is and has rendered India, all but a eunuch country in its inability to articulate how different it is from the TSP abomination.

CRamS what makes you think India is actually very much different from Pakistan. Bogus is as bogus does, so if India's secularism is bogus it is because india is no different from Pakistan and the opinions of a few noisemankers does not matter.

All you need to do is to look at "South Asia statistics" in human development and you find India below Sri Lanka, equal to Bangladesh and just above Pakistan in most parameters. (Never mind that Paki stats are probably lies) This is what planners in India think about. Even Shivshankar Menon, whose lecture I attended a couple of weeks ago said something similar as did Pillai whom I heard speaking 2 years ago.

Indian administrators and planners and politicians all think differently and and do not see any great differences between India and Pakistan. What is beginning to fascinate me now is how people like Bharat Karnad and Admiral Arun Prakash have been converted to this mindset.

I am not saying people on BRF are wrong, but I will also say that Pakistanis went around believing that they were right in saying 1 Muslim = 10 Hindus and found it hard to believe that others felt otherwise. Clearly there is a huge gap between our caterwauls on here and what officialdom thinks. Being blinkered is being unable to see or acknowledge that much of the world outside is seen differently by others. Whether everyone else is really as dumb as is being made out remains to be seen, but a reality check would ask whether we really are ahead of the curve or not.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 30 Jan 2013 09:53

Sharif not totally in dark on Kargil, says retired Pak general

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 30 Jan 2013 10:15

^^
The same Pakistani Jernail has apologized to Afghans for siding with Kuffars to invade them in his book. Should be coming out soon.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 30 Jan 2013 10:22

shiv wrote: . . . I will also say that Pakistanis went around believing that they were right in saying 1 Muslim = 10 Hindus and found it hard to believe that others felt otherwise.

shiv, that belief has a religious sanction. Koran (8.65) says,

"Rouse the Believers to the fight. If there are twenty amongst you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred; if a hundred, they will vanquish a thousand of the Unbelievers for these are a people without understanding"

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 30 Jan 2013 10:29

As Row Erupts, Rehman Malik Alters Comments on SRK's Security - Anita Joshua, The Hindu

With his remark that “the Indian government should provide security to actor Shah Rukh Khan” kicking up a controversy in India, Pakistan’s Interior Minister Rehman Malik on Tuesday modified his statement.

In a tweet posted towards the evening, he said: “Shah Rukh Khan is equally famous in Pakistan and India. I am sure that threats to him are being handled as per the relevant Indian law.”

The tweet was posted after Home Secretary R.K. Singh said India was capable of looking after its own people and Mr. Malik should worry about the security of Pakistani citizens.

lakshmikanth · Post by **lakshmikanth** » 30 Jan 2013 10:55

SSridhar wrote:
shiv wrote: . . . I will also say that Pakistanis went around believing that they were right in saying 1 Muslim = 10 Hindus and found it hard to believe that others felt otherwise.
shiv, that belief has a religious sanction. Koran (8.65) says,

"Rouse the Believers to the fight. If there are twenty amongst you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred; if a hundred, they will vanquish a thousand of the Unbelievers for these are a people without understanding"

Funnily enough there is madrassa math in the next one 8.66:

Now, Allah has lightened [the hardship] for you, and He knows that among you is weakness. So if there are from you one hundred [who are] steadfast, they will overcome two hundred. And if there are among you a thousand, they will overcome two thousand by permission of Allah . And Allah is with the steadfast.

So, Insha-allah, what is the real dealio my Baki friends:

Is it 1 Baki == 10 yindoos or 1 Baki == 2 yindoos?

Need some pure green to decide this one.

EDIT: Historically, these revelations were given to Muhammed by Allah when he won the Battle of Badr against a large army of the Quraysh which was sent to protect the caravans from caravan raiders (caravan raiders being Muhammed and co and all this was just 3 years before he violated the treaty of Hudabiya)

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 30 Jan 2013 11:01

So, it is in a range between 1:2 to 1:10 depending on the purity levels (otherwise, height of the shalwar above the ankles and the length of the unkempt beard which must certainly be more than four fingers).

AoA.

PS: The Daughter of the East, BB, unilaterally changed it to 1:100 for TSPians against the kafir Hindus.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 30 Jan 2013 11:28

I think some of us are reacting along expected lines and so will be the institutional response. But IMO there is a change being driven by the agents that needs to be comprehended. I don't believe this is an unintended affect of political rivalry between INC-BJP or the result of expediency on the part of INC.

Increasingly we see that the media is getting integrated across both nations - Aman Ki Asha is one example but we also routinely see eggspurts from the other nation hosted on TVs. It has become commonplace in the popular prime time programs to have participants from both nations - Surkshetra and other comedy type programs. Cricket matches of course are a major common interest and national pastime in both nations. Fiascos involving celebrity icons/infamous politicos across each nation will obviously gather more attention and remain in public conscience.

What this all does is that a larger proportion of people's mindshare is being spent on common stories, news, programs, interests -basically living rooms across households of both nations are being streamlined and integrated. Anyone's guess where this will all lead to in the medium to not-so long term?

Of course elephant is in the prayer room not in living room. Certain events may make sense when seen from this perspective too.

lakshmikanth · Post by **lakshmikanth** » 30 Jan 2013 11:40

SA ji,

I had mentioned in an old post of mine that the elites of both nations are beginning to merge. They see themselves as brothers. They hate the rest of us (you and me included).

The Baki elite knows that its goose is cooked in the long term and is using all its leverage to move to India. People in the A-monkey-A$$ah and associated loonies are all a part of this gamble by the Baki elites that seems to be paying off.

Infact the clown prince of India himself mentioned that Hindu terror is a bigger threat than Islam, what more could be a statement of solidarity with his Baki brothers?

kenop · Post by **kenop** » 30 Jan 2013 11:42

Stated aim of India to be in peaceful co-existence with its neighbours is an indic thought and was not changed even after partition.
Stated aim of TSP to be in peaceful co-existence with its neighbours is taqiya.
This difference is suppressed by the talking heads of a certain kind. This is a willful act due to some hidden reasons (not meaning to say unimaginable reasons)
The public knows the difference but it does not show up in any policy/approach made by the elected government.
This is a win for TSP for the moment.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 30 Jan 2013 11:48

Lakshmikanth ji, I agree that is a compelling read of the situation else current happenings do not make much sense especially when pukis are vulnerable and we should be using this opportunity to consolidate our gains.

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 30 Jan 2013 12:27

BTW: Didn't pukistan disallowed Indian muslims to enter/migrate the so called ~~darul-islam (meaning heaven on earth for muslims)~~ daaru-piyakkad-izlam by legislation since 60s?

So, what kind of logic does hafeez-e-mofo uses to invite SRK to migrate to pukistan? May be someone should point that out so hafeez-e-mofo can work out a legislation with their gobermands to reverse that and open flood gates to those who want to taste finest daaru in pukiland.

James B · Post by **James B** » 30 Jan 2013 13:08

Japan Times: North Korea’s missiles tied to Musharraf's Kargil blunder

ISLAMABAD – A retired Pakistani nuclear scientist has claimed that former Pakistani leader Gen. Pervez Musharraf’s 1999 military adventurism in the Kargil region of divided Kashmir failed in part because the North Korea-aided, nuclear-capable Ghauri missiles he wanted to deploy then had a faulty guidance system.

Speaking on condition of anonymity, the scientist said that during the Kargil crisis of May-July 1999, Musharraf, who was then army chief, “wanted to deploy Ghauri missiles, but air went out of his balloon when the top general in charge of the missile program told him the missile had a faulty guidance system.”

Over a year earlier, on April 6, 1998, Pakistan had carried out what it described as a successful first test of the intermediate-range ballistic missile, developed by Khan Research Laboratory with North Korean assistance.

Even Musharraf, who witnessed that Ghauri launch as a local corps commander, had been led to believe it was a success then, according to the nuclear scientist, who until recently had long been closely associated with the country’s nuclear and missile programs.

The truth, he said, is that the ballistic missile failed to reach its predesignated impact point in Pakistan’s southwestern province of Baluchistan and its debris could not be found — something that would have undermined the missile’s deterrent effect if it were made public.

Military experts and strategists have pondered why Musharraf, immediately after he became chief of the army staff in October 1998, began planning the ill-fated incursions across the volatile Line of Control in disputed Kashmir, sparking the worst outbreak of fighting since the India-Pakistan war of 1971 even though he knew Pakistan could not prevail in an all-out conventional war with its neighbor.

During the May-July 1999 conflict, the two sides fought a two-month limited war in Kargil that led to over 1,200 fatalities and added to fears of a nuclear showdown before then-U.S. President Bill Clinton helped broker a ceasefire and Pakistani withdrawal.

Musharraf’s gamble in Kargil has since been interpreted by many as an effort by Pakistan, aside from gaining a tactical advantage by occupying dominating positions in the Kargil Heights, to test the deterrence value of its nuclear weapons.

The untold story, according to the scientist, is that Musharraf was unaware of the Ghauri missile’s faulty guidance system even as he oversaw the covert occupation by Pakistan troops and mujahedeen “freedom fighters” of the inhospitable, snowbound outposts in Kargil that the Indian Army had vacated for the winter.

He said Musharraf only learned the truth in March 1999 from Lt. Gen. Zulfikar Khan, who then commanded the army’s Combat Division.

Musharraf then ordered another Ghauri test, which took place on April 14, 1999, just three days after India tested its Agni-2 intermediate-range ballistic missile and several weeks before India detected the extent of the Pakistani side’s penetration in Kargil.

But this test also failed, with the missile overflying its target and falling across the border in the Sistan region of southeastern Iran, the scientist said. It, too, was publicly declared a success, however.

The scientist’s remarks were corroborated by two other nuclear scientists and another knowledgeable source who confirmed that the two missiles tested in 1998 and 1999 both failed to impact at the predesignated points in Baluchistan.

While Pakistan claimed the Ghauri missiles were designed and produced indigenously, they were actually Nodong missiles supplied by North Korea and re-engineered in Pakistan to extend their strike range.

The scientist claimed that after the second test, North Koreans were invited to a meeting at army headquarters in Rawalpindi, where they were confronted with the fault in their technology.

“The North Koreans started talking left and right but were told to open their eyes and take care of the guidance system in their Nodong missiles,” said the scientist, who was privy to the meeting.

Musharraf, he said, initially wanted to return the Nodong missiles to North Korea, from which it had imported 40 in knocked down condition in the mid-1990s. But then the Pakistan Atomic Energy Commission undertook to replace the guidance with that of the country’s Chinese-aided Shaheen missile, he said.

Last Nov. 28, the improved version of Ghauri was test-fired and the government — true to form — declared it a success. Soon afterward, however, it was found to have exploded in midair and rained metal debris over parts of Sindh Province.

Pakistan’s disgraced nuclear scientist, Abdul Qadeer Khan, whose laboratory develops nuclear warheads for Pakistan’s missiles, concedes there was a row about the Ghauri’s accuracy.

But he ridicules the assertion that Musharraf wanted to return them over their faulty guidance system, saying, “What difference does it make if a nuclear-tipped missile falls 1 km left or right of the predetermined impact point?”

Khan claims Musharraf merely sought to return them because Pakistan had insufficient funds to pay back what it owed for them. The Kargil crisis happened in the wake of six nuclear tests carried out by Pakistan in May 1998, which triggered sanctions against the country and led a drastic fall in foreign exchange reserves. Pakistan suffered a serious military and diplomatic setback after successful Indian military action and intense international pressure forced it to unconditionally pull back behind the Line of Control as part of the U.S.-brokered ceasefire. In his autobiography, published in 2006, Musharraf called it a “myth” that the two sides had come to the brink of nuclear war during the conflict and dismissed as “preposterous” speculation that Pakistan was preparing for a possible nuclear strike on India then. “I can also say with authority that in 1999 our nuclear capability was not yet operational. Merely exploding a bomb does not mean that you are operationally capable of deploying nuclear force in the field and delivering a bomb across the border over a selected target,” he wrote. Critics of Musharraf’s action often refer to the Kargil conflict as a “misadventure,” saying it was badly conceived and executed, while he wrongly assumed the world would sit back idly. Instead of considering the Kargil as a blunder, Musharraf, who has been living in exile since quitting politics in 2008, claims it actually brought the Kashmir issue back into international focus and helped pave the way for a solution. However, tension between the nuclear-armed neighbors, which have fought three wars since partition in 1947, two of them over Kashmir, has remained high since the Kargil conflict.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 30 Jan 2013 13:24

The above article confirms everything we have been saying on BR including:

Pakis are not able to track BM's even Last year and know only when the missile lands where it lands and if Not chinese imports in the 1990's when we were showing utmost restraint. Shows the Value of NDA doing the Nuke Tests and subsequently restarting of Agni and other strategic programmes. A fact kept away from the Indian public

sum · Post by **sum** » 30 Jan 2013 13:53

Speaking on condition of anonymity, the scientist said that during the Kargil crisis of May-July 1999, Musharraf, who was then army chief, “wanted to deploy Ghauri missiles, but air went out of his balloon when the top general in charge of the missile program told him the missile had a faulty guidance system.”

Reads like true BENIS material....

If only someone from inside TSP confirms what we have known about nook-nude stuff also.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 30 Jan 2013 14:01

Anther intresting fact, is it if it is 40 Missiles- 5 used, the Number of launchers may not be more 4 or 5, and wonder how many lauchers Pakistan have for Shaheen, Nasr etc. If someone can convince Pakis for safety these must be 24*7 GPS tracked, it will be very useful

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 30 Jan 2013 14:05

shiv wrote:
r_subramanian wrote:It can only happen in Pakistan. A PIA flight from Karachi to Islamabad is diverted to Lahore so that a daughter of a PIA official can get off the flight.
Sudden tubelight blinking on in my mind. Someone had posted elsewhere about how one's career in the Pakistan army can be terminated with just a word from a senior officer. Darwinism means that only those officers who do their best to please their seniors no matter what is demanded are the ones who get to rise, and the fruits of a rise are juicy and plentiful. This also explains why there are no revolts - because people who rock the boat are eliminated early.
.......

Shiv saar, here is another data point. I was reading Myra MacDonald's "Heights of Madness – The Siachen war" recently when a passage on IA and PA struck me.

I do not have the book at hand and so do not wish to put words in her mouth, but IIRC MacDonald spoke of how PA officers were so much more outspoken and 'easier' around their seniors than their IA counterparts. She spoke of on instance in which junior officers in a PA felt free to hug and salute their Colonel. As an IA brat I never once saw that happening, but my father retired more than 20 years ago.

Perhaps someone here has a copy and can paste the actual passage. But based on these examples, I hypothesize that perhaps PA is both more tyrannical and more 'free and easy' than IA. That may account for their 'tactical brilliance' and strategic stupidity. But it's just a skein of an idea that could be tracked in future for corroboration and analysis.

Arav · Post by **Arav** » 30 Jan 2013 14:10

Lot of articles to nail Mush-a-raff. Might be to replace Kiya-nahi after his retirement as the new El Presidente of Bakistan...

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 30 Jan 2013 14:42

Thats why they need an AWACS. Their bum is air deliverable, AWACS will be part of any strike group

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 30 Jan 2013 14:56

Baikul wrote: She spoke of on instance in which junior officers in a PA felt free to hug and salute their Colonel. As an IA brat I never once saw that happening, but my father retired more than 20 years ago.

If some one tries that even in todays IA, he better have a good excuse, such as having come down alive after single handedly winning Tiger hill AND drinking a bottle of old monk to celebrate it, he is other wise likely to feel warmer on Siachen without winter kit on 14th January.

Rajdeep · Post by **Rajdeep** » 30 Jan 2013 15:47

ISI, militants involved in beheading of Indian soldier along LoC?

http://www.firstpost.com/world/isi-mili ... 06807.html

'Terrorist who mutilated Indian soldier was rewarded Rs 5 lakh'

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/loc-killings ... ml?from=HP

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 30 Jan 2013 15:57

Baikul wrote:MacDonald spoke of how PA officers were so much more outspoken and 'easier' around their seniors than their IA counterparts. She spoke of on instance in which junior officers in a PA felt free to hug and salute their Colonel.

There was a photo of the then Kamandu General standing next to the Prime Minister, Nawaz Sharif, and testing a pistol casually.

kenop · Post by **kenop** » 30 Jan 2013 17:04

With a cigarette dangling from his lips too. Or was that another occasion?
The discipline/protocol of the jihad fistula does not require a stiff straight bearing in any case.