Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

[sum]

K6 from land will be our SS18 type thing - big. superfast. brawn. ugly. hairy and russian in looks.
K4 from water will be the sdre sharp chankian knife in the back / gaboon viper - smaller but deadly .

Love these analogies...

[SSridhar]

X-post from DRDO thread
World Class in Avionics - Frontline

Everything about the Research Centre Imarat (RCI), situated on the outskirts of Hyderabad, is outsized: its campus, its deer population, the density of trees, the buildings that house its laboratories, its arched main entrance, and so on. Its scientists dream big too. If S.K. Chaudhuri, its Director, is fond of recalling how the RCI is “the brainchild” of A.P.J. Abdul Kalam, former President and a missile technologist himself, the young G. Satheesh Reddy, its Associate Director, is articulate about “the dream” that drives the centre and has made it “a world-class laboratory” in avionics today. “The dream was that new ideas should always be floating in the air of the RCI,” Satheesh Reddy said.

If the RCI engineers know how to dream, it has paid off. For it is today a “global frontrunner” in developing avionics for India’s missiles. Its goal, according to Satheesh Reddy, “is to do research in the frontier technological area of avionics and produce highly accurate, reliable and miniaturised avionics systems for the country’s defence”. The RCI’s avionics include inertial navigation systems (INS), mission computers, radio frequency and imaging seekers, battery systems, control actuation systems, and telemetry and telecommand systems. In other words, the entire electronics in a missile system is developed at the RCI and incorporated in every type of missile that the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) produces. The navigation system itself includes accelerometers, gyroscopes, on-board computers (OBCs) and seekers. The RCI makes all these not only for missiles but for ships, submarines, battle tanks, helicopters, unmanned aerial vehicles and torpedos. “Avionics is unique whether we do it for aircraft, helicopters, ships, submarines, tanks or unmanned aerial vehicles,” Satheesh Reddy, who is a specialist in avionics, said.

The DRDO has a troika of missile-making laboratories in Hyderabad—the Defence Research and Development Laboratory (DRDL), the Advanced Systems Laboratory (ASL) and the RCI. While the DRDL has designed and developed missiles such as Akash, Nag, Prithvi, Astra, the submarine-launched K-15 and its land version Shourya, the ASL has developed the strategic Agni-I, II, III, IV and V missiles, which are armed with nuclear warheads. The RCI develops the avionics for all these missiles and also for BrahMos, the supersonic cruise missile which is a product of the Indo-Russian cooperation.

Kalam motivated Chaudhuri to move from the DRDL to the RCI. “The RCI is the umbilical cord that connects the other two missile laboratories,” said Chaudhuri. “In a missile, the energy is from the DRDL and the ASL because they provide the propulsion (motors). The brain, eyes and the heart are from the RCI,” he explained. In other words, while the DRDL and the ASL provide the “ shakti”, that is, propulsion to the DRDO missiles, the RCI imparts them with “ gnana”, that is, it develops the sensors, the navigation systems and the seekers for them. Chaudhuri said the RCI’s guidance systems gave them the “ ichcha”—it tells them where they should go; and steering is “ kria”.

“Our challenge is in the atmospheric phase” of the missile’s flight, where there are aerodynamic forces, said Chaudhuri. “Our [a missile’s] mission is over in 12 minutes,” chipped in Satheesh Reddy. “We do not have any correction mechanism to control the missile from the ground except in air defence applications. So we rely on avionics to take the missile to the target accurately.”

In terms of size and manpower, the RCI is the largest of the 52 DRDO laboratories situated across the country. Its campus is spread over 920 hectares of thick scrub jungles, with hills, ponds and a lake too. About 1.5 lakh trees make it a densely wooded campus. About 500 deer and scores of peacocks roam the campus. The RCI was set up in 1988 with Kalam as its founder-Director. Imarat is the name of the village where it was set up, and Kalam was keen that “Imarat” should be added to the “Research Centre” so that the village would find recognition on the world map. Kalam visualised the RCI as a hub of interaction between its scientists, and professors and research scholars from the academia.

More than 100 industries work with the RCI. About 2,000 personnel, including 500 scientists, work in its network of laboratories, which include the Information Technology Command and Data Centre for Enterprise, Resource and Planning, the Advanced Simulation Centre, the Remote Simulation Laboratory, the INS Calibration Laboratory, the Advanced Hardware In-loop Simulation Centre and the Radar-seeker Development Centre.

The centrepiece of these laboratories is the Navigation and Embedded Computers Complex (NECC). While the complex itself occupies six hectares, the built-up area is spread over 18,000 square metres. If Satheesh Reddy has lavished his attention and time in building this massive complex, it shows. Its spacious laboratories, wide corridors and broad glass doors and windows are spotlessly clean. Its facade is attractive. A big model of a gimbal, a device used in missiles/civilian rockets, welcomes the visitor. Huge murals depict the history of the development of the navigation systems in India and its pioneers such as D. Burman and Paritosh Banerjee. The work initiated by Burman was taken forward by Banerjee, and later by Avinash Chander, Ramana Sai, G. Vidya Sagar, Venkateshwarlu and now by Satheesh Reddy. Avinash Chander is Chief Controller, Missiles and Strategic Systems, DRDO.

Satheesh Reddy is not only the RCI’s Associate Director but also Director of the Inertial Navigation Laboratory and Fibre Optics Centre. He recently won the Astronautical Society of India’s “Rocketry Award” for his pioneering contributions and path-breaking work in rocket and related technologies. Satheesh Reddy is a specialist in navigation systems and he developed the avionics, including the ring-laser gyroscope navigation system for the target missile (Prithvi), for the DRDO’s missile interceptor programme and the fibre-optic gyroscope-based INS for the interceptor.

Chaudhuri said: “We not only do research but produce the systems. We started working on the INS in the late 1970s when we did not have any of these sensors and systems and were importing them. In parallel, we started working on the sensors—how to make them. For without the navigation systems, you do not know where you are.”

The INS consists of three accelerometers and three gyroscopes, all of which are sensors. The accelerometers measure the missile’s acceleration. The gyroscopes measure its rate of angular rotation. The gyroscopes will pick up even a small change/variation in the missile’s flight. The acceleration and angular rotation provide the missile’s velocity, position and orientation every millisecond, which are used by the missile’s guidance and control systems. The robustness of the gyroscopes and accelerometers determine the accuracy of the missile’s flight.

The RCI’s forte is its ability to manufacture mechanical gyroscopes, laser gyroscopes and fibre-optic gyroscopes. The challenge in making them is that they should be able to perform in a dynamic environment. “The mechanical gyroscopes have remained our workhorse from the late 1980s. They are world class,” Chaudhuri said. RCI engineers, headed by Satheesh Reddy, have developed the latest ring-laser gyroscopes too, which were used in the Agni-IV and Agni-V missions in 2012. There are plans to set up a government-owned-company-operated (GOCO) facility to produce the ring-laser gyroscopes.

K. Ram Babu, Technology Director of the Laser Systems, said the development of a variety of gyroscopes was an important achievement. “Ring is a system,” he said. “It has three gyroscopes. We produce them. Gyroscope technology has a lot of optical, mechanical and electronic components. A number of technologies are involved in it.” The optical blocks used in the gyroscopes are made of glass ceramics and they are so ultra-smooth that when these optical blocks are brought close to each other, they stick together. “We have overcome all the challenges and we are able to produce gyroscopes in numbers. We can produce 15 gyroscopes a month,” said Ram Babu and his colleague M. Sree Ramana.

Satheesh Reddy said the RCI, battling a technology-denial environment, had produced fibre-optic gyroscopes, ring-laser gyroscopes, dynamically tuned gyroscopes, and highly accurate accelerometers, which were all world class in terms of technology. “We indigenously developed and produced these sensors. We developed the algorithms on our own. The sophisticated software is completely developed by us. They have put India on a par with any advanced nation in the area of navigation systems for missiles,” he asserted. The technology for producing these navigation sensors has been transferred to the industry.

In the Remote Simulation Laboratory (RSL), the entire avionics system is simulated for the Agni series. Since they are fire-and-forget missiles, if any of their systems malfunction in flight it cannot not be rectified, according to Pulak Halder, scientist at the RSL.

The nerve centre of the RCI is the most advanced NECC, which develops the avionic systems for the DRDO’s missiles. The driving force behind the realisation of the complex is Satheesh Reddy and it is not surprising that he and his colleagues working in the various laboratories in the complex are proud of its accomplishments. In its big Exposition Hall are on display the array of systems that constitute the core avionics: mechanical gyroscopes, micro-electro-mechanical system (MEMS) gyroscopes, quartz gyroscopes, ring-laser gyroscopes, missile interface units (MIUs) for Agni and the underwater launched K-15 missiles, the OBCs, System on Chips, and launch processors for Astra, control and coding units for India’s Light Combat Aircraft Tejas, and precision optical components for the INS alignment with GPS receiver. Also on display are the optical components of the ring-laser gyroscopes, prototypes of micro-INS, gyroscopes used in submarines, navigation systems for ships and high-temperature antenna used in the re-entry vehicles of the strategic Agni missiles. These re-entry vehicles should withstand more than 1,800° Celsius when they re-enter the earth’s atmosphere. The NECC developed every one of these items, which lie in the area of cutting-edge technologies.

“In a nutshell,” said M. Kannan, scientist at the NECC, “this building has developed the inertial navigation systems and the spacecraft navigation receiver systems for Agni- I, II, III, IV and V; Prithvi; Astra; BrahMos; the missiles used in our Ballistic Missile Defence shield programme and the underwater launched missile. The Navigation Laboratory has state-of-the-art equipment, facilities and infrastructure supporting several DRDO organisations, including the Aeronautical Development Establishment and the Aeronautical Development Agency, both located in Bangalore; the Naval Science and Technology Laboratory in Visakhapatnam, for torpedos and high-speed and low-drag bombs; and for the Services’ different needs.”

Another top product from the NECC is the System on Chips, which is the OBC itself, weighing less than 10 grams. “The development of the System on Chips is a feather in the cap of the RCI. We are proud that we have these cutting-edge technologies,” B.H.V.S. Narayana Murthy, Director, Real-Time Embedded Computers, said.

In the massive hall of the Testing and Calibration Laboratory of the NECC, the various components of the avionics package of the DRDO’s missiles are tested. In fact, all the systems that finally go into a missile are tested in this facility. They are subjected to real-time trajectory simulation with both flight motion simulator and GPS-GLONASS (Global Navigation Satellite System) simulator. Each and every avionics package undergoes temperature and stress tests here to ensure that the quality of their systems is good. Since any navigation system is built around gyroscopes and accelerometers, which are sensors with error-sources inherent in them, calibration is done here to determine the errors, quantify them and remove them.

Today, the RCI has diversified into making navigation systems for the Indian Navy and the Army’s battle tanks, unmanned aerial vehicles, helicopters and aircraft. These systems will replace imported systems. In the past four years, the Navy has given many projects to the RCI. They include developing navigation systems for gun control and radar control for use in the Navy’s vessels.

If India is self-reliant and world class in the avionics systems for its family of missiles, it is because the RCI has produced a variety of OBCs and MIUs with medium speed to very high computational power, multiprocess systems, and reliable communication network. It has developed and produced a variety of electromagnetic actuators, hydraulic actuators and servo valves for controlling the movement of missiles. “In fact, the servo valves produced in large numbers by the RCI offers a new model for production by GOCO facilities,” said Satheesh Reddy.

The RCI has produced OBCs and MIUs on two single chips, called SOC-computer and SOC-interface, under the leadership of Narayana Murthy. It has produced, under Satheesh Reddy’s leadership, a small GPS-GLONASS-GAGAN module, weighing just 17 grams, which can be used for satellite-aided navigation of aircraft, helicopters, unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), micro-air vehicles and short-range tactical missiles. Reducing the size of the navigation systems, including miniaturising the OBCs and MIUs, has resulted in small-sized avionics package, thereby reducing the missiles’ weight and, therefore, giving them a longer range. This has given the DRDO missile technologists confidence to design and develop in five years missiles weighing only 10 tonnes but with a range of 2,000 km.

The RCI is striving to become a world leader in navigation systems and avionics by pursuing continuous R&D in advanced technologies such as micro-nano sensors, multiple types of high-accuracy sensors, and multiple navigation methodologies and systems. It is trying to realise the entire avionics on a single module.

[SagarAg]

This has given the DRDO missile technologists confidence to design and develop in five years missiles weighing only 10 tonnes but with a range of 2,000 km.

Is he talking about future missiles or currently developed by DRDO.
Going by this statement Agni-V which weighs 50 tonnes has a potential range of 8000-10000 km.

[SSridhar]

^ Agni-II would be the missile in that range (2000 Kms) and it weights ~16t.

[member_23694]

^^^^^^^^^^^^
IMHO i find it tough to believe that a 50 tonne agni V has a range of only around 5000 - 5500 km even though i take into account a 2 tonne payload and all the MIRV stuffs etc.
Our defence labs good or bad seems to very good in concealing things or creating doubts on the opposition like for ex pokharan 2 , K 15 etc.
Anyway i don't mind

[nash]

^ Agni-II would be the missile in that range (2000 Kms) and it weights ~16t.

Thats interesting Agni-II 16 T and as per wiki Agni-IV 17T

speculative range of Agni-V upto 8K look like not so speculative and A-6 weigh around 60-70 will very much indicate the range of atleast 10K

[Singha]

I think range is more important for K4 than A6 since we expect our subs to patrol deep in the southern IOR/south pacific.
ideally a 10,000km range with a 750kg payload presents a lot of challenge given smaller dimensions of K4. it will have to be much more high tech than A5.

A5/A6 only needs around 6K max to reach the farthest part of Cheen. they can afford to throw a MAZ tel as the payload given the size of the missile.

[nash]

In wiki, they mention about K-5 which will be SLBM variant of A-6, yes A-6 with 6K range is enough to target China.
But K-5,if the concept exist, with 10K range will be usefull.Arihant class SSBN not required to lurk only in BoB, they can go deep in the Indian cean or pacific ocean far away from war.

[koti]

Helina
Helina

Source Link

[ramana]

SS, The 10t class vehicle going to~ 2K km is the B05 or K-15 in the ballistic mode.
In the hypersonic cruise mode its 700km-1500km. lesser ramge for lower atmosphere travel.

[negi]

A lot of gain in the range has to do with the switch to composites for fuselage instead of maraging steel; that itself improves the propellant fraction by a significant factor.

[SaiK]

range: does it matter after it has escaped! perhaps range would be exponential after it reaches orbital space.

[ramana]

Saik, but cant defeat physics na? Range is roughly equal to the the final velocity, ~7k feet per sec will cover all points on earth.

[vasu raya]

In addition to being a testbed for MIRV and MaRV technologies this new 20m behemoth will also serve as the on-demand SLV perhaps

The TELAR with a 20m canister will be interesting to watch, guess it will be common across all Agni series missiles, this is in consonance with DRDO's statements that all (future?) missiles will be canisterized.

[Prem Kumar]

I also dont think that the A6 weight being 15-20 Tonnes more than A5 makes too much sense, if the warhead weights add upto 1 Tonne, as in A5. A back of envelope calculation:

a) Average density of A5 (yes, I know this number doesn't make much sense - but its useful to make a point) = Weight/volume = ~900 Kg/m^3

b) Adding 2.5 m height with the same average density would result in a weight increase of 7 Tonnes

For a weight increase of 15-20 Tonnes, the upper stage must be packed with some really high density materials, assuming the rest of the stages are the same. The bus will definitely be high density. But I dont see the weight increasing by 15-20 T, unless of course, DRDO is stating that A6 has a range of 6000 Km onlee, but delivers a 2.5 - 3 Tonne payload, distributed in a 4 or 6 MIRV configuration!

To get to Trident-2 level of miniaturization for K-X, we have some ways to go. 1st stage composites + I think there is much more work needed on the propellant side of the business.

Also, Avinash Chander last year had stated that A3 had to loft a 2 - 2.5 Tonne payload because of a sub-optimal payload packaging. They had overcome this problem in A5, which is why the latter needs to deliver only a 1.5 Tonne payload. More optimizations will come

[ramana]

Did you account for 4-6 payloads say ~1 tonne each? So throw weight itself is 4-6 tonnes instead of 1 tonne.

[SaiK]

I thought we would have the designs ready for 250kg per cone. does it need to be 1T each eventually?

[wig]

Lighter BrahMos will have same firepower

The lighter version of BrahMos supersonic missiles being developed by its manufacturers for firing from air will not lack in terms of firepower when compared to their heavier cousins deployed with the Army and the Navy.

"We are only reducing the weight of the missile. We are not reducing any of its firepower", BrahMos Aerospace CEO and MD Sivathanu Pillai told this reporter at the sidelines of a seminar here today.

Pillai said the Su-30 fighter jets with which the BrahMos missile was being integrated was designed to carry a maximum load of 1.5 tonnes. While the weight of the ordinary BrahMos is three tonnes, the aircraft version weighs 2.5 tonne. But even at 2.5 tonnes, it was one tonne in excess for the Russian fighter.

Pillai said the aircraft was needed to be strengthened for carrying the missile and for this purpose the aircraft was being redesigned and various parts of the aircraft was being freshly made.

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2013/20130206/nation.htm#3

[Prem Kumar]

Did you account for 4-6 payloads say ~1 tonne each? So throw weight itself is 4-6 tonnes instead of 1 tonne.

Its possible - if so, that would explain a 15 Tonne increase in weight in terms of additional proppellant required. The payload is left unmentioned in the article

[Singha]

the heaviest indian tested explosive is claimed to be 450kg FBF device...assuming it was shaped and sized for Agni , where does the addl 550kg for each RV come from ? ceramic heat shields, X-thrusters, liquid fuel and upper atmosphere engine?

[Klaus]

By canisterization, do we mean all missiles in the inventory will have the nose-caps? I recall watching a video where a K-4 3D model was shown with a nose-cap, same with A-6.

A-5 actually seems to be a momentous fork in the road, has the potential to diverge into two or more types of missile depending on whether DRDL/RCI wish to introduce ambiguity with respect to MaRV capability, while keeping MIRV capability as standard along with the advertised ranges.

[Singha]

A5 is like common creature ancestor of the bear , dog and wolf. it will evolve fast and morph out of its initial look.

B05 on the other hand looks like a finished product of some evolution.

[ramana]

While it would be nice to have a M(i)RV A-6 to show capability, I dont like the idea of putting all the eggs in one basket for it will invite first strike.

OTH such a vehicle with one payload would be a Vamana.

[dinesha]

Livefist: The BrahMos pavilion at Aero India has this model, on display for the first time, of the hypersonic BrahMos II (Scaled Down).

[jamwal]

It's nose resembles that hypersonic vehicle DRDO is designing. Is their any advantage in such shape ?
What is that depression in middle behind fins ?

[Sagar G]

Spot the difference

[jamwal]

Air intake ? :-s
I meant that flattish beak like part, not the whole nose.

[ramana]

Yeah the spoonbill nose is for hypersonic flight. The angluar surfaces are to deflect the shock waves.
The Brahmos II is leveraging the HSDTV research.

There was an ISRO design called AVATAR. Whats going on there?

[Sagar G]

I meant that flattish beak like part, not the whole nose.

No idea about that I was only pointing out the similarity between the hypersonic Brahmos front portion and our own project HSTDV.

[dinesha]

AVATAR- a SSTO vehicle as originally fantasied has been long abandoned as undoable at current technology level.. Various other mini TSTO derivatives are being studied by ISRO with no clear cut schedules..

[Singha]

All hypersonic scramjets worldwide seem to have that same basic shape

[Sagar G]

AVATAR- a SSTO vehicle as originally fantasied has been long abandoned as undoable at current technology level.. Various other mini TSTO derivatives are being studied by ISRO with no clear cut schedules..

AVATAR was a long term in the future thing since the beginning IIRC and TSTO is the stepping stone before that, nothing is being abandoned.

[dinesha]

^^^Yes, a project started about 25 years back without any time limit -to be achieved in "future" -with no intermitted achievements..
Corollarily if TSTO is like building a man-'moon' vehicle, SSTO is like building a Man-'Jupiter' vehicle.. if not more

[D Roy]

Interesting that brahmos II has an almost 2D intake and is very similar to what America is planning as an evolution of the X-43A.

But then you guys would be happy to note that the LRASM-B looks a lot like some ramjet missiles you guys like.

At the end of the day these vehicles can't end up looking too different from each other given the principles involved.

[srin]

^^^Yes, a project started about 25 years back without any time limit -to be achieved in "future" -with no intermitted achievements..

I remember that they did test the scramjet engine ignition in a sounding rocket a couple of years back. But this is at the bleeding edge of science - it may be that the whole thing may be economically unviable - but till we try it, we won't know

[Sagar G]

^^^Yes, a project started about 25 years back without any time limit -to be achieved in "future" -with no intermitted achievements..

Time limits cannot be assigned to projects for which tech breakthroughs have to take place, the more important thing is that dreams and ideas are being pursued and not being allowed to die let them be 25,50 or 100 yrs. old.

[ramana]

dinesha, What about ABR-2000? Still goin gon?

[Kanson]

All hypersonic scramjets worldwide seem to have that same basic shape

That's becoz of the engineering limitations at present wrt to Hypersonics both in design and in materials. It doesn't mean different shapes were not tried out. It is like all Motor Vehicle/Car belonging to particular generation having hand cranks.

[pentaiah]

All hypersonic scramjets worldwide seem to have that same basic shape

That's becoz of the engineering limitations at present wrt to Hypersonics both in design and in materials. It doesn't mean different shapes were not tried out. It is like all Motor Vehicle/Car belonging to particular generation having hand cranks.

Reminds of the gimmic of Le Iococa selling Chysler LH500 series (Last Hope) as revolutionary CAB Forward design which was nothing but aerodynamic profile of the front part of car and windshield and Khan land public fell for it ( I mean infront of cab forward)

[Klaus]

While it would be nice to have a M(i)RV A-6 to show capability, I dont like the idea of putting all the eggs in one basket for it will invite first strike.

OTH such a vehicle with one payload would be a Vamana.

Is it necessary to follow the conventional nomenclature for strategic missiles? One would think that the country which is developing such capability should be free to introduce more ambiguous terms into the 'lexicon': Multiple Reentry (MRV), Multiple Manoeuvrable Reentry (MMRV), Multiple Manoeuvrable Non-Reentry/Glide ....many combinations.

Mucking around a little bit here.