Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

[vasu raya]

The production aspect being taken care concurrently for Brahmos program was a highlight in contrast to HAL's approach of waiting to setup assembly lines for Tejas to come out of testing.

The other highlight was brand building that armed forces are looking forward to Brahmos induction. HAL is monolithic and has to be broken into smaller organizations so that bureaucracy goes down and each division now as an independent organization can make a difference. The ALH or helicopter division need not be linked to Dornier or Sukhoi or Rafale manufacturing, HAL's brand image is never gonna go up that way.

The downside from the interview is DRDO, ISRO are already at the receiving end of sanctions, now why do they want to expose their supply chain as well to such liabilities when GoI cannot insure private orgs the way US floated its private banking institutions from bankruptacy

[SaiK]

i think i heard it clear on engaging the private sector in micro-managing way. a step in the right direction.

[NRao]

He said that "it can be done". Did not say it will be done. The question too was very clear on not using Russian techs. Pillai did not say anything wrong.

[RamaY]

I loved the video. I think the naming of certain companies are done consciously, and I hope that is fine. I loved the q&a and how the student community is encouraged.

[vasu raya]

Maybe he is disclosing that Brahmos attained indigenization

Anyways, from the datasheet shown in the video for the air launched version, the free fall drop is given as 100-150m and a minimum altitude for release as 500m suggesting a launch in the lo-lo-lo flight regime of the MKI as an option

As an aside we usually don't see any open specs of Israeli stuff

[Austin]

Hypersonic Brahmos has been labelled as Sudarshan Chakra

[VinodTK]

US pitches for Rs. 9,900-cr anti-tank missile deal

Yet another multi-billion dollar defence deal with the United States is in the works. New Delhi is in discussions with Washington to buy anti-tank guided missile systems worth $1.8 billion (Rs 9,900 crore) to arm its troops with the capability to destroy enemy armour.

The
Indian Army is projected to deploy 8,356 Javelin missiles and 321 launchers to knock out enemy tanks from a distance of 2.5 km - it had first tested the capabilities of the missile in October 2009 during joint military exercises with the US.

The outcome of the latest tests of the missile - a joint venture between US defence firms Raytheon and Lockheed Martin - is expected to give fresh impetus to the proposed acquisition.

The fire-and-forget Javelin missile acquired and engaged targets up to 4.75 km, nearly twice the range requirement of the Indian Army, during tests conducted at Eglin Air Base in Florida.

"The US and Indian armies will be conducting Yudh Abhyas exercise at Fort Bragg in the US in May 2013. This may present another opportunity for Indian soldiers to fire the Javelin…The enhanced range performance is a critical milestone for us," Brad Barnard, senior manager, Raytheon Javelin International Growth, told HT at Aero India 2013.

The enhanced capability indicates that the one-man portable missile can potentially be used in both vehicle and dismounted roles. India plans to buy the Javelin system under the US government's foreign military sales (FMS) programme in which the Pentagon serves as an intermediary.

This is a government-to-government transaction, unlike direct commercial sales negotiated directly between foreign governments and the US arms manufacturers.

Defence minister AK Antony had told Parliament in August 2010 that India was looking at a possible purchase of the third-generation anti-tank guided missile from the US. The Javelin Joint Venture is awaiting a formal letter of request to kick start the procurement.

Raytheon executives said the firm was ready to respond to all requests of the Indian government relating to the evaluation and procurement of the Javelin missile system.

The US is pitching for the lucrative order at a time when Antony has asked the armed forces to prioritise their purchases against the backdrop of a shrinking defence budget. He, however, emphasised that the military's operational readiness would not be compromised.

Foreign military contractors don't seem to be discouraged. BAE Systems international managing director Guy Griffiths told HT, "This is not an unusual issue. We face such situations everyday in the US and Europe. We are taking a long-term view of the Indian defence market and our prognosis is things will improve as the economy grows."

US defence and aerospace firms have won contracts worth more than $9 billion (Rs 49,500 crore) over the last five years to equip the Indian military with special operations aircraft, heavy airlifters and submarine hunter planes. India is also negotiating deals worth $3 billion (Rs 16,500 crore) with the US for supplying heavy-lift and attack helicopters to the IAF.

The Javelin Punch

Designed to destroy tanks and armoured vehicles, the missile also provides secondary capability against helicopters and fixed defences such as bunkers and buildings.
The imaging infrared system allows the gunner to acquire targets during night.
The missile normally engages and destroys a tank in the `top-attack' mode. It also has a direct-attack capability to engage targets with overhead cover or in bunkers.
The fire-and-forget capability allows the gunner to acquire another target or move position as soon as the missile is launched.
The system is deployed and ready to fire in less than 30 seconds and the reload time is less than 20 seconds
Indian soldiers had fired the Javelin in October 2009 during exercise Yudh Abhyas, the annual Indo-US military drill then held at Babina near Jhansi. The missile engaged and destroyed targets every time it was fired - six times by American troops and thrice by Indian soldier

[svinayak]

Indian potent Missiles in Chinese TV



Published on Jan 16, 2013

Chinese army dudes in cc tv studio after their short take on Arjun mbt they are back with India's missile defense capability Agni 5 MIRV Multiple independently targetable reentry vehicle ,Prithvi AAD , lca tejas , carrier , anti ship scm


Need translation

[James B]

K-15 Missile as ASBM

The possibility of developing the K-15 missile into a submarine launched anti-shipping ballistic missile (ASBM).

[svinayak]

Japanese version of the report on the missile launch

[Lilo]

^^ With regard to Agni V the Japanese news person says
> That it can target much of Asia ,Russia and Europe
> That it is designated to target China and the Pakis

In all the growing strength of India's strategic missile capability was reported in a non negative way which is a good sign.

[Kanson]

Hypersonic Brahmos has been labelled as Sudarshan Chakra

It is like Sudarshan Chakra, he mentioned. This Chakra once unleashed is unstoppable, upon completing its mission returns to its owner.

[Kanson]

K-15 Missile as ASBM

The possibility of developing the K-15 missile into a submarine launched anti-shipping ballistic missile (ASBM).

Of course, it can! More than that, there are other less costlier options we have that is enough to sink all the floating metals!

[srin]

Inside Story of SLBM K-15

Interesting ...

The name was changed to B-05 after Bhasin and many say it was named Bhasin and his birthday 5th, but the Scientists said it should be Kalam-15 as former President Kalam is born on 15th October 1931 so K-15. Now its name is K-15/B-05 in the media

[keshavchandra]

http://livefist.blogspot.in/2013/02/air ... final.html

@LIVEFIST : Brahmos -A in final stage (with Aero India snaps).

[nachiket]

http://livefist.blogspot.in/2013/02/air ... final.html

@LIVEFIST : Brahmos -A in final stage (with Aero India snaps).

Look at the info graphic. Curiously, it seems to show the missile being fired from a Su-34 unless my eyes deceive me.

[pankajs]

Managing India’s Missile Aspirations - IDSA COMMENT

The Agni-VI, to be developed by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), joins the Prahaar missile as the new symbols of India’s powerful strategic complex. Both missiles, however, invite questions as to the validity of India’s “credible minimum deterrence” doctrine for its emerging nuclear force.
<...>
The Agni-VI emerges as a product of poor political management. As new missile projects elevate DRDO prestige and create new budgetary requirements, it has every interest in initiating new missile plans regardless of a related strategic requirement. The Agni-VI was, therefore, already being sketched out by DRDO as soon as the Agni-V was first tested.2

To curtail this tendency and relate the Indian nuclear force to wider national strategic objectives, the Indian government should establish clearer directive political control over the missile activities of DRDO.
<...>
The Agni-VI and Prahaar both signify unnecessary missile projects, which have been developed in the interests of DRDO technical and bureaucratic ambitions rather than the stated interests of India’s nuclear doctrine. The Agni-VI extends India’s nuclear missile range past the entire landmass of both of its nuclear rivals, while Prahaar could open the road to a tactical nuclear weapons race with Pakistan.

Firmer political guidance from India’s policymakers is thus required to reassess these projects, and ensure that India’s nuclear policy is in line with India’s wider global interest in a stable security environment.

[pankajs]

Aero India 2013: VSHORAD contenders square off

Both MBDA and Saab displayed their missile systems, the Mistral MANPADS and RBS-70 NG respectively, at the show in Bangalore. It is believed that Rosoboronexport is also bidding for the award.

The companies are awaiting a decision on the downselect for the programme, with MBDA claiming to have completed live firing for the army and Saab saying its tests are still on-going.

[pankajs]

IAF's Iron Fist will shock and awe

While the IAF will be concentrating its energies in the west, defence scientists have planned an underwater launch of BrahMos cruise missile near the eastern coast.

The missile is meant to be integrated with the navy's new submarines that will be built under project 75 India which, incidentally, hasn't taken off. The missile has been installed on frontline warships.

The DRDO scientists said the first trial of sub-sonic cruise missile Nirbhay will be conducted later this month.

The medium range cruise missile is tipped to have advanced technology with a special loitering feature and capability to fly extremely low to avoid radar detection. Sources said the loitering feature meant that the missile will wait for its target after being fired.

Earlier this week, DRDO chief V.K. Saraswat had claimed that work has started on the key strategic missile Agni VI, capable of carrying multiple warheads.

A long range underwater launched ballistic missile K-4 is also learnt to be in the advanced stages, sources said.

[member_23651]

Managing India’s Missile Aspirations - IDSA COMMENT

..... <snip>... <snip>..... As new missile projects elevate DRDO prestige and create new budgetary requirements, it has every interest in initiating new missile plans regardless of a related strategic requirement.The Agni-VI was, therefore, already being sketched out by DRDO as soon as the Agni-V was first tested.2

To curtail this tendency and relate the Indian nuclear force to wider national strategic objectives, the Indian government should establish clearer directive political control over the missile activities of DRDO. WTF you bloody US A$$ lickers masquerading as India's well wishers
<...>
The Agni-VI and Prahaar both signify unnecessary missile projects, which have been developed in the interests of DRDO technical and bureaucratic ambitions rather than the stated interests of India’s nuclear doctrine. yeah yeah how dare you threaten my paymasters... The Agni-VI extends India’s nuclear missile range past the entire landmass of both of its nuclear rivals, while Prahaar could open the road to a tactical nuclear weapons race with Pakistan. How dare you threaten EU and Pakistan you dirty hinjews

Firmer political guidance(from the likes of Digvijay Singh???) from India’s policymakers is thus required to reassess these projects, and ensure that India’s nuclear policy is in line with India’s wider global interest in a stable security environment. in other words .... shutdown the IMGDP or just restrict to Prithvi/Pinaka.... ask Madam G...and she might even do that

A real US A$$ Licker

[Indranil]

Okay, the Astra shown with the LCA mockup is the Astra which was test fired in Jan. Picture in DRDO newsletter confirms that

DRDO January 2013 newsletter

Also the NAMICA has undergone a lot of change. It no longer has 8 NAG missiles in ready to fire mode. It has 6 missiles in ready to fire mode. But it has a much lower silhouette though.

[ramdas]

Anantji,

The author of the article you quoted appears to be from the U.K. He is just doing his ``patriotic duty". What else do you expect ?

It is important for the establishment to institutionalize a push towards constant further technical improvement: the way outsiders try to insitutionalize ``academics" who preach ``restraint".

[Indranil]

Managing India’s Missile Aspirations - IDSA COMMENT

That is one of the most repulsive reports that I have ever read.

[Pratyush]

^^^

Disgusting, that the IDSA allowed it to be published, without any rebuttal is a disturbing fact. The article ought to have been pir reviewed. Yet it was not by any Indian expert. Presenting an Indian POV.

[svinayak]

^^^

Disgusting, that the IDSA allowed it to be published, without any rebuttal is a disturbing fact. The article ought to have been pir reviewed. Yet it was not by any Indian expert. Presenting an Indian POV.

Important artice to show good cop and Bad cop.
Bring them on. Brilliant article

Missile to reach other continents are a must

[SSridhar]

Managing India’s Missile Aspirations - IDSA COMMENT

I sometimes really wonder why we are so democratic that we allow these patronizing and colonial-type articles to be carried by publications of premier Indian organizations. Do they allow similar articles in their publications written by Indians ? It is extremely important that we do not allow such articles in Indian publications at this crucial stage of missile development programme. He is trying to drive a wedge between DRDO and the GoI. Absolutely abominable and it reflects poorly on the editorial management by IDSA.

[Pratyush]

^^^

Guru Dev,

I am unable to understand your meaning.

[svinayak]

He is trying to drive a wedge between DRDO and the GoI. .

Do you think both are same or different

[SSridhar]

I posted the following comment at the IDSA site

The Indian defence planners have a very complex task on hand. Not only is India surrounded by two inimical nuclear neighbours with whom several wars have been fought and who collaborate between them vis-a-vis India, the country has also to contend with potential situations in the future. India encompasses roughly one-sixth of humanity within its borders and is an emerging economic hub for the entire world. It has gained freedom from multiple foreign occupations stretching to roughly eight centuries only less than seven decades back. India wishes to be a significant pole in the multi-polar world, given its size and capabilities. As India develops rapidly and becomes the third largest economy in the world before the end pf this decade, it may have to face potential threats and conflicting situations from many sources. At the same time, India cannot afford to be dragged into an arms development programme that is way too ambitious beyond its means of requirement and even sustainability. India is not launching an extravagant Star Wars programme by building Agni-VI. India, it must be remembered, has been nuclear blackmailed not only by Pakistan and China and unless suitable delivery means are available to it, there is no guarantee that similar blackmails will not occur in the future. The DRDO, as part of the Government of India, is allocated funds based on projects that are realistically needed by Indian defence planners. DRDO is not acting tangentially to GoI's interests as the aricle supposes. The folly of citing Shakti-II tests as what made Pakistan act similarly is once again being enacted in the Prahaar versus Nasr equivalence.

[SagarAg]

He is trying to drive a wedge between DRDO and the GoI. .

Do you think both are same or different

The level of sarcasm has reached to another dimension.

[SaiK]

was this posted here?



buddy mode would be interesting.. say LCA could switch off its radar (it has low RCS) carrying ASTRA. MKIs with their new AESAs could lock targets from 300km++., but LCA needs only about 80km to finish the job. I am sure LCA is stealthy enough for such ops.

that is the buddy mode right?

[srai]

^^^

"Slaving of seeker with IRST/HMS"

Does that mean Astra is like MICA i.e. dual role WVR and BVR?

[member_23651]

Anantji,

The author of the article you quoted appears to be from the U.K. He is just doing his ``patriotic duty". What else do you expect ?

It is important for the establishment to institutionalize a push towards constant further technical improvement: the way outsiders try to insitutionalize ``academics" who preach ``restraint".

Ramdasji,

I am sorry but I didn't see the writer was a Brit turd. I assumed that since it came from IDSA, it reflected views of our strategic community. I stand corrected. But doubt still lingers why on earth, IDSA would allow such article. He is trying to paint DRDO as a rogue agency acting independent of GOI directive, kind of ISI-Paki Army equal-equal. IDSA should at least do basic 101 logic check of article, before hosting them. On the top of It, SSridharji's rebuttal has not been even published. (although to IDSA credit hey do add a standard disclaimer they necessarily do not support views of the authors on their site)

[Katare]

Buddy mode could mean a missile sharing data with another missile.

[merlin]

Anantji,

The author of the article you quoted appears to be from the U.K. He is just doing his ``patriotic duty". What else do you expect ?

It is important for the establishment to institutionalize a push towards constant further technical improvement: the way outsiders try to insitutionalize ``academics" who preach ``restraint".

Ramdasji,

I am sorry but I didn't see the writer was a Brit turd. I assumed that since it came from IDSA, it reflected views of our strategic community. I stand corrected. But doubt still lingers why on earth, IDSA would allow such article. He is trying to paint DRDO as a rogue agency acting independent of GOI directive, kind of ISI-Paki Army equal-equal. IDSA should at least do basic 101 logic check of article, before hosting them. On the top of It, SSridharji's rebuttal has not been even published. (although to IDSA credit hey do add a standard disclaimer they necessarily do not support views of the authors on their site)

Article is more in the mold of the Perkovich book which tried to show a disconnect between BARC officials and the GoI and as such should be treated with the same contempt.

[srin]

^^^

"Slaving of seeker with IRST/HMS"

Does that mean Astra is like MICA i.e. dual role WVR and BVR?

It might mean that the pilot just needs to turn his head and look at the target (at long WVR) for the Astra's RF seeker to lock on.

[SaiK]

cool, that means two or more astras can be simultaneously fired locking multiple targets. terror coming to paki solahs and thundars!

[VikB]

http://tatamotors.com/media/press-releases.php?id=835
Tata Motors' versatile 6X6 multi-axle vehicles to move BEL's radar application for IAF

Tata Motors has bagged an order for the company's fully indigenous Tata 6x6 multi-axle high mobility mobile platforms, from Bharat Electronics Limited (BEL), Bangalore, to mount Radar applications meant for the Indian Air Force.

The Tata 6x6 versatile multi-axle vehicle platform, will give BEL's radar system the mobility to be placed strategically, at almost any location, to detect both low-flying aircraft and 'spy planes' or unmanned aerial vehicles, and the ability to detect other kinds of intrusions. Tata Motors will supply 26 Tata 6x6 multi-axle vehicles to BEL Bangalore.

Tata Motors is also in the process of delivering 96 'Specialist Tractors' for the Indian Defence forces "Akash" missile programme.

Mr. Vernon Noronha, Vice President - Defence & Government Business, Tata Motors, said "Tata Motors offers a full range 6x6, 8x8 and 12x12 multi-purpose high mobility carriers, designed especially for integrating specialist rocket and missile systems. Tata 2038 6x6 vehicle platform also stands qualified by the Indian Army for GRAD BM21 Multi Barrel Rocket Launcher (MBRL) application after rigorous field firing evaluation trials."

Tata Motors' portfolio includes various applications on its multi-axle range, from Missile Carrier Systems to a Water Purification System. Advanced missile programs like Brahmos, Pinnaka, and Akash have been demonstrated on Tata Motors multi-axle platforms.

Tata Motors offers its defence customers a wide range of vehicles, in the light, medium and heavy category, having created a focused division to design and develop defence technologies and products, at its manufacturing facilities in Jamshedpur and Pune. Tata Motors also has a dedicated service team and network for defence products, across the length and breadth of the country.


The company also has the ability to mobilise adequate manufacturing capacity for defence requirements, along with dedicated exclusive infrastructure, manufacturing facilities and trained manpower, to ensure faster delivery of its defence vehicles. Tata Motors recently delivered around 40 MPVs to the Jharkhand and Maharashtra State Police, and over 150 Tata Light Armoured Troop Carriers (LATC) to Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF) and Gujarat State Police

About Tata Motors Defence Solutions:
Tata Motors has been associated with the country's off-road defence and security forces, since 1958 and has supplied over 1,00,000 vehicles to the Indian military and Paramilitary forces, so far. The company offers its products and services that not only meet the needs of the domestic market, but are also positioned to meet most stringent requirements across the world. Tata Motors exports its range of specialized defence vehicles to the SAARC, ASEAN and African regions. With Tata Motors rich portfolio in multi-axle range like 12x12, 8x8 & 6x6, the company has started supplying to leading Missile OEMs across the world. The company has established itself as a supplier of specialist vehicles for UN peacekeeping missions. Tata Motors range of off-road vehicles are also being procured by the agencies involved in AID & Development, across the world like GSA, KBR, Oxfam, RONCO, RA International & Riders. (http://www.defencesolutions-tatamotors.com)

what is this for???

[nash]

i think Astra -Mk1 will be in category mica and can be used as WVR, need to see the minimum range.

and astra-MkII will be in category of R-77,Meteor,etc....

is it possilbe that single missile have both the seeker:RF and IR? . if it is and DRDO is planning and capable of, then As-MkII, which if include all the features mention in image would be a "RAMBAAN" of IAF, which never miss its target.

[vic]

Indian industry when given a chance has replaced TATRA and bofors within few months. It is corrupt babus who are holding India back.