China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

[vivek_ahuja]

Are these "gaps" pre-planned or easily extra-polatable?
Given that the borders run in thousands of kilometers vs 400 KM range of an AWACS, I presume they would have specific locations in mind to concentrate such platforms on?
Mountain Ranges + Valleys would be an ideal starting point?
Or they would deploy their AWACs in a fashion where they could easily monitor IAF airfields?
Have absolutely no clue as to how they do required force projections.

The answer here depends on whether you are talking about defensive or offensive operations. Both will require the tankers/Airborne-radars to support the shooters differently.

Also, no matter what the Chinese do (other than satellites), there is no way they can keep an eye on Indian airfields from their side: the Himalayas are neutrally blocking both sides. They (Chinese airborne radar platforms) will, however, allow effective visuals over the front-lines.

And AWACS should not be looked as picket line radars. They will move back and forth along with the shooters depending on the operations going on (not with them directly, of course, but I mean their stand off location will move further away or closer depending on whats going on south of them)

Bottom line is that my simulations for the scenarios dhaga were based on only the 26th Division being active. And even then it proved to me a major headache in terms of taking them down.

Fictitious scenario aside, two more such Divisions will not help any in real life either, I assure you

-Vivek

[vivek_ahuja]

<Deleted double post>

[vivek_ahuja]

Also, let's put aside any thoughts on increased costs, greater crews, bigger infrastructure or any other such stumbling block to hold back the Chinese from increasing their airborne radar regiments. They have not yet been slowed down by any such thing and IMVHO, never will. They have a clear doctrine in mind (flawed, copied or otherwise) and they are doggedly pursuing it.

Gotta admire them for that, at least.

-Vivek

[Misraji]

I see. So the key points are loss of surprise (ingress/egress routes), less flexibility in types of missions and attrition reserves.
Awesome. Thanks for answer, Vivek + Singha sir.

--Ashish

[rajkhalsa]

I found an awesome inline Mandarin text translator plugin for Firefox and Chrome called Perapera

Browse Chinese websites with this handy set of training wheels. Read articles in Chinese and quickly see the pronunciation and definition of new words as you encounter them. Just point your mouse to the word you want to see and it will popup with your preferred pronunciation format, and the definition.

Just be careful and disable java, flash and use a proxy and strong firewall when browsing when Chinese websites. They can be jump points for malicious hackers

[NRao]

China Military Watch.

Watch China Military:

3D printing: A new dimension to faking it

Thanks to 3D printers, budding counterfeiters could soon create parts or goods themselves. The problem for authorities is that copying physical objects is not always illegal.

What will you 3D print?

Around 200 years ago the industrial revolution changed the way we create things. Today nearly everything we own is mass produced in factories but that could all be about to change again.

Rolex watches, Burberry hats and other fake luxury goods are increasingly becoming small beer to ambitious counterfeiters. They are now thinking on a far grander scale – both in terms of size and the tools for the job.

According to Der Spiegel, a “fake” copy of a Beijing office and retail development designed by London-based architect Zaha Hadid is already being built 900 miles (1,500km) away in Chongqing. In Guandong province, also in China, builders are reportedly working on an unauthorised replica of the Austrian village of Hallstat, a UNESCO World Heritage site. And on a smaller scale, pirated petrol stations are not unheard of in eastern Europe, including fake Shell stations in Russia, and an entire fake BP station, complete with a petrol tanker decked out in BP livery, in Bulgaria.

Way to go. We can now expect replica F-35s and A1 tanks and what not. Fun times.

[Indranil]

Just read in a magazine that the J-10B which was supposed to be serial produced from last November has not materialized. It has gone for a longer test schedule. In the meanwhile 40 J-10As will be produced instead. Any confirmation or rebuttal?

[vivek_ahuja]

Something that Bala brought to my attention:

PLAAF "Blue Flag" training and weapons proficiency exercises

JF-17 in IAF colors part of the opposing forces during the training:


This is significant, IMO. Need to look up what the scope of these exercises are and what Fighter Divisions have already begun sending their brigades through it.

[negi]

Chinese and their fetish with paint; what's with IAF roundels ; do they expect to IFF by looking for roundels via a binocular ?

[vivek_ahuja]

Chinese and their fetish with paint; what's with IAF roundels ; do they expect to IFF by looking for roundels via a binocular ?

Within Visual Range combat training saar, old school style. Going back to basics is never a bad thing in fighter combat.

Of course, it could all be a sham and dust-in-eyes strategy that Beijing loves to employ to fool not only the world but also its own people. So will have to collect some more info on whats going on here.

-Vivek

[Karan M]

If they were truly serious about the IAF, their best Sukhois would be marked as the IAF.

Plus, the above looks like a fake pic? A model but not a real jet?

[member_23455]

Chinese sub capability

http://chinadailymail.com/2013/02/16/mo ... ubmarines/

[ashi]

Chinese sub capability

http://chinadailymail.com/2013/02/16/mo ... ubmarines/

Author of this piece:

About nomade51
nomade51 is living in Phnom Penh, Cambodia, "Kingdom of Wonder" and reporting trilingually from the Cambodian Capital as Political Atheist. --- Blog "Living in Phnom Penh: www.alfredmeier.me --- Background: Swiss, former consultant, trainer and lecturer for service industry marketing management

What does he really know to have enough background and information to write such an article?

[member_23455]

Chinese sub capability

http://chinadailymail.com/2013/02/16/mo ... ubmarines/

Author of this piece:

About nomade51
nomade51 is living in Phnom Penh, Cambodia, "Kingdom of Wonder" and reporting trilingually from the Cambodian Capital as Political Atheist. --- Blog "Living in Phnom Penh: http://www.alfredmeier.me --- Background: Swiss, former consultant, trainer and lecturer for service industry marketing management

What does he really know to have enough background and information to write such an article?

Questioning the professionalism of amateurs when BR is proof itself of the contrary?

Anyway, more on the Type 39, with pics...

http://www.informationdissemination.net ... tures.html

[NRao]

As though we needed proof:

China military unit 'behind prolific hacking'

A secretive branch of China's military is most likely one of the world's "most prolific cyber espionage groups", a US cyber security firm has said.

Mandiant said Unit 61398 was believed to have "systematically stolen hundreds of terabytes of data" from at least 141 organisations around the world.

It traced the attacks to the doorstep of a non-descript building in Shanghai used by the unit.

China denied hacking and questioned the validity of Mandiant's report.

'Extensive cyber espionage'

"Hacking attacks are transnational and anonymous," said foreign ministry spokesman Hong Lei.

"Determining their origins are extremely difficult. We don't know how the evidence in this so-called report can be tenable.

"Arbitrary criticism based on rudimentary data is irresponsible, unprofessional and not helpful in resolving the issue."


Mr Hong added that Beijing "firmly opposes hacking", has taken steps to prevent it and is also a victim of cyber attacks.

In an indication of the military sensitivity around the Shanghai site, the BBC's John Sudworth and his camera crew were briefly detained by soldiers when they went to film the facility. They were only released once they had handed over their footage.

In its unusually detailed report, US-based computer security company Mandiant said it had investigated hundreds of data breaches since 2004, most of which it attributed to what it termed "Advanced Persistent Threat" actors.

The scale of the Chinese hacking alleged by the computer security firm Mandiant is striking. Until now the bulk of this hacking has been a digital version of old-fashioned industrial espionage - stealing designs and company secrets.
But there is a more sinister side to this activity as well. Chinese hackers are alleged to have a growing interest in gaining access to key parts of the US infrastructure - gas lines, power grids and waterworks. President Barack Obama himself warned during his recent State of the Union address that the nature of the cyber threat was changing.
Gaining access to critical systems is the key. Once inside the digital perimeter - especially if the intrusion is not identified, there is the possibility of causing real physical damage to the infrastructure that the computers control.

The details it had uncovered, it said, "convince us that the groups conducting these activities are based primarily in China and that the Chinese government is aware of them".

The most prolific of these actors is APT1, which Mandiant says is "a single organisation of operators that has conducted a cyber espionage campaign against a broad range of victims since at least 2006".

"From our observations, it is one of the most prolific cyber espionage groups in terms of the sheer quantity of information stolen," it said, adding that it was "likely government-sponsored and one of the most persistent of China's cyber threat actors".

"We believe that APT1 is able to wage such a long-running and extensive cyber espionage campaign in large part because it receives direct government support," said Mandiant.

The firm said it had traced the hacking activities of APT1 to the site of 12-storey building in the Pudong area of Shanghai. It said that Unit 61398 of the People's Liberation Army "is also located in precisely the same area" and that the actors had similar "missions, capabilities and resources".

Among the findings about APT1 in the report were that it:

is staffed by hundreds, possibly thousands, of proficient English speakers with advanced computer security and networking skills
has hacked into 141 companies across 20 industries, 87% based in English-speaking countries, and is able to steal from dozens of networks simultaneously
has stolen hundreds of terabytes of information including blueprints, business plans, pricing documents, user credentials, emails and contact lists
stayed inside hacked networks for an average of 356 days, with the longest lasting 1,764 days
targeted industries identified by China as strategically important under its Five Year Plan for economic growth
'Groundless'

Unit 61398 has for some time been suspected by the US of being central to China's cyber espionage programme, the New York Times reports.


Mandiant admitted there could be one alternative explanation for its findings: that "a secret, resourced organisation full of mainland Chinese speakers with direct access to Shanghai-based telecommunications infrastructure is engaged in a multi-year, enterprise scale computer espionage campaign right outside of Unit 61398's gates, performing tasks similar to Unit 61398's known mission".

Several governments, foreign companies and organisations have said in the past they suspect China of carrying out extensive cyber espionage over periods of several years.

Last month, the New York Times said its systems had been infiltrated over a period of four months, after it wrote a report on the alleged wealth of China's outgoing Premier Wen Jiabao.

Mandiant, which the paper hired to investigate, traced the hack to China. However, the paper said its breach had been attributed to a different group. The Wall Street Journal also reported a China-based hack.

At the time, China's foreign ministry dismissed the New York Times accusations as "groundless", saying that to "conclude without hard evidence that China participated in such hacking attacks is totally irresponsible".

[Austin]

The Su-35 flies to China

As part of the agreements that we have with the Chinese side, we did in January signed an intergovernmental agreement to supply China Su-35" - said the deputy director of the Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation (FSMTC) Vyacheslav Dzirkaln passing on the UAE arms exhibition IDEX-2013, where he heads the Russian delegation.

According to him, will soon begin consultations to prepare a contract to supply China Su-35 fighters. "This is - well, there is a planned work", - said V.Dzirkaln.

He did not specify when it can be contracted and how the Su-35 will be delivered to China. But noted that it will not license, and procurement contracts. Ie China will get ready to operate aircraft.

[Yagnasri]

I wonder if this Su35 is fully loaded or not. Considaring what happend before it is surprise if Russia wants to supply one to China. If it is offered with all the bells and wistles then serious problems to India (and Russia also) in future.

[shiv]

About nomade51
nomade51 is living in Phnom Penh, Cambodia, "Kingdom of Wonder" and reporting trilingually from the Cambodian Capital as Political Atheist. --- Blog "Living in Phnom Penh: http://www.alfredmeier.me --- Background: Swiss, former consultant, trainer and lecturer for service industry marketing management


What does he really know to have enough background and information to write such an article?

If he's not white he must be wrong.

[Aditya_V]

The Su-35 flies to China

As part of the agreements that we have with the Chinese side, we did in January signed an intergovernmental agreement to supply China Su-35" - said the deputy director of the Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation (FSMTC) Vyacheslav Dzirkaln passing on the UAE arms exhibition IDEX-2013, where he heads the Russian delegation.

According to him, will soon begin consultations to prepare a contract to supply China Su-35 fighters. "This is - well, there is a planned work", - said V.Dzirkaln.

He did not specify when it can be contracted and how the Su-35 will be delivered to China. But noted that it will not license, and procurement contracts. Ie China will get ready to operate aircraft.

Weren't the Chinese posters here saying given how advanced the J-10 is and the J-20,J-31 on the way, China will never import the SU-35.

From this link PLA signs preliminary deal for 24 Russian Su-35 jet fighters

Mainland and Russian media reported last month that Beijing might purchase 24 Su-35s, an updated version of the fourth generation Su-27, for US$1.5 billion. The deal was first proposed by Moscow two years ago.

Thats USD 62.5 mil per aircraft

A Beijing-based PLA senior colonel, who requested anonymity, said: "We decided to buy the Su-35 because it's a fact that our home-made engines have failed to measure up to the Russian products."

He said China was still playing catch-up, despite recent headlines hailing its progress on military modernisation.

"Engines have been the biggest headache and we are still trying to cope with it," he said. "The purchase of the Su-35s might help our J-20 project, but there are too many deeper problems hiding in our military industrial system that are hindering our research and development."

Further, why disclosure from the Chinese and what their purchase price is? H&D?

Anther link

China to buy Russia’s state-of-the-art Su-35 jetfighters

[pankajs]

Weren't the Chinese posters here saying given how advanced the J-10 is and the J-20,J-31 on the way, China will never import the SU-35.

Further, why disclosure from the Chinese and what their purchase price is? H&D?

Simple Saar! These fighter are soooooooooooo... advanced that the Chinese still do not understand how to operate them. So for now, they are going back to the old tech. Meanwhile these high tech beasts will be exported to Bakistan for the bakis are one step ahead of the Chinese.

[TSJones]

About nomade51
nomade51 is living in Phnom Penh, Cambodia, "Kingdom of Wonder" and reporting trilingually from the Cambodian Capital as Political Atheist. --- Blog "Living in Phnom Penh: http://www.alfredmeier.me --- Background: Swiss, former consultant, trainer and lecturer for service industry marketing management


What does he really know to have enough background and information to write such an article?

If he's not white he must be wrong.

Phnom Penh is edge territory, Shiv. I'll bet the Euro expats that live there are edge people, too. I mean it's not like the dude is living in Beijing or something. So what's his sources. When Jim Oberg writes about Russian or NoKo space it's because he travels there and writes about his travels. Jim has actually been at the NoKo space flight center and talked to their chief engineers. What's up with Alfred Meier? Does he have the kind of Chinese sources that Jim Oberg has for Russia and NoKo? Jim used to work for NASA (25 years). Who did Alfred Meier work for? Is he a consulant with a drug proplem (I'll bet a lot of the expats in Phnom Penh have drug or sex "problems".) We just don't know. Until we know, his sources are suspect. They have to be.

[Austin]

Off topic

Have an article on J-20 from Air International , Would like to post it here but this is an online edition and uses pocketmags reader on windows , does not allow to print screen option etc , Any idea what software can i use to copy the content say in jpeg format and post it here ?

[member_20292]

four international companies that have the ability to produce these giant engines: General Electric, Pratt & Whitney, Rolls Royce and that Russian company whose name escapes me. Not .

Soloviev

[member_20292]

Off topic

Have an article on J-20 from Air International , Would like to post it here but this is an online edition and uses pocketmags reader on windows , does not allow to print screen option etc , Any idea what software can i use to copy the content say in jpeg format and post it here ?

print screen button nahi chaltha hai kya ??

[member_20292]

As though we needed proof:

China military unit 'behind prolific hacking'

I find it pretty interesting that the building has been so nicely identified, and its picture plastered all over the internet.

The US wants to shame the PLA unit into stopping, failing which it wants it to be scared of a cruise missile "accidently" landing on its head.

[subhamoy.das]

Not sure if this was posted here http://www.samachar.com/Huawei-says-Sin ... eijhe.html

Huawei attempts to cover up research with military application.

[JE Menon]

Austin, screenshot studio or fireshot studio lite should do the trick....

[Austin]

Thanks , Tried my luck with screenshot

J-20 Assassin's MACE ? ( Air International )

J-20-1
J-20-2
J-20-3

[Don]

Thanks , Tried my luck with screenshot

J-20 Assassin's MACE ? ( Air International )

J-20-1
J-20-2
J-20-3

Good article thanks !!

[Singha]

I would agree the J20/J31 greatest threat is to the JSF which is supposedly the next main fighter for carrier groups but will be purchased by SOKO/Taiwan/Japan as well until their own 5th gen programs are ready.

JSF is neither that stealthy nor very fast/long range or a heavy hitter in payload. that makes its position shaky.

imo JSF production numbers will be steeply capped and more funding directed to A2A UCAVs.

[shiv]

Thanks , Tried my luck with screenshot

J-20 Assassin's MACE ? ( Air International )

J-20-1
J-20-2
J-20-3

Austin. Thanks for taking the trouble.

But IMO the article is pure lifafa on several counts.

I am now getting an OT idea of how some western businesses are surviving

[member_20292]

^^^^

Ditto. Pure hogwash. I am certain that the sum total of what some discussions over here lead to, is far more than what you can find at any quote unquote AUTHORITATIVE magazine or source.

[NRao]

Why Indian Ocean belongs to india:

Fragments of ancient continent buried under Indian Ocean

And those fragments were attached to the Indian land mass:



Therefore the entire Indian Ocean belongs to India!!!!


QED.

[VinodTK]

Chinese transport 'workhorses' extending military's reach

:
:
:
Over time, the air and sea support will give the world's second-largest navy greater geographical reach and will enhance the PLA's capacity to assist troops on distant battlefields, potentially including Taiwan if Beijing were to launch a military assault to take control of the self-governing island.

China's state-owned shipyards last year launched two 23,000-tonne type 903 replenishment ships, according to reports and photographs published on Chinese military affairs websites and blogs, with further orders in the pipeline.

Defence analysts say the state-of-the-art ships are undergoing sea trials and should be commissioned into the Chinese navy later this year.

China also confirmed last month that the PLA had conducted the first test flight of its Y-20 heavy lift aircraft from the Yanliang airbase near Xi'an in Shaanxi Province.

State-run television showed footage of the four-engine Y-20, the biggest aircraft built in China, taking off and landing. The Y-20, built by AVIC Xi'an Aircraft Industry (Group) Co Ltd, would have a 66-tonne payload, according to official media reports.
:
:
:

[abhishek_sharma]

Is China working on a nuclear reactor for aircraft carriers?

China may have kicked off a research program aimed at developing nuclear reactors to power its future aircraft carriers.

A report posted on the website of the state-owned China Shipbuilding Industry Corporation (CSIC) on Feb. 19 stated that the Ministry of Science and Technology has formally kicked off an effort to develop nuclear power plants for ships. Interestingly, that post has been taken down after it was viewed 682 times.

Luckily for us, a cached version of the page can still be seen here. This is a (very) rough translation of the key sentence on the site:

The Ministry of Science and Technology's nuclear power shipping critical technology and safety research Project 863 and small-scale nuclear reactor generation technology and its application demonstration supporting technology project has formally been set up.

While the report doesn't say anything about aircraft carriers, CSIC is the firm that turned the hulk of the former Soviet ship Varyag into the Chinese navy's first carrier, the Liaoning. China is supposedly working to field at least two more carriers in the next decade.

It should be noted that China already has a fleet of nuclear-powered attack and ballistic missile submarines. This article in the South China Morning Post, which first reported the new reactor program, points out that building a nuclear carrier may be the next logical step for the Chinese navy. Still, Jeffrey Lewis of the James Martin Center for Nonproliferation studies downplayed the significance of the new program, saying that Chinese engineers could simply put larger versions of their existing submarine reactors into carriers.

"They might wish to make [the reactor] more powerful, but that's easy as they don't have to shoehorn it into a submarine," Lewis told Killer Apps.

All of the U.S. Navy's aircraft carriers and submarines are nuclear powered. The key advantage of nuclear powered ships is that they don't have to refuel nearly as often as conventionally fueled vessels -- think decades rather than months. (On a side note, naval nuclear reactors tend to use highly enriched uranium, the same stuff that's key to making nuclear weapons.)

China's planed homemade carriers are said to be based on the Liaoning's design and will incorporate lessons learned from operating the "starter carrier," as she has been called. Media reports have suggested that the first two locally built carriers will be conventionally-powered and enter service around 2015, with a third nuclear-powered vessel possibly entering service around 2020.

The Liaoning was launched in Ukraine as the Varyag in 1988, but construction ceased by 1992 due to the fall of the Soviet Union. She sat in a Ukrainian shipyard for a decade, eventually gutted of engines, electrical systems, and combat equipment. China bought the hulk from Ukraine in 1999, saying that it planned on turning the ship into a casino. In 2002, the Varyag was towed from the Black Sea to China and was refitted. In 2011, she put to sea under her own power for the first time. Last November, Chinese fighters made their first landings and takeoffs from the Liaoning's deck. So much for that casino.

[Austin]

China commisions new Frigate ( some pictures )

http://china-defense.blogspot.fi/2013/0 ... -plan.html

[Don]

China commisions new Frigate ( some pictures )

http://china-defense.blogspot.fi/2013/0 ... -plan.html

Its not really a frigate its a corvette type 056.

[Don]

http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/China ... n_999.html

China has announced a tentative time period for its next manned space craft launch that will dock with the country's orbiting space laboratory.

Three Chinese astronauts will man the Shenzhou-10 spacecraft when it launched sometime between June and August, the office of the country's space manned program said in a statement Thursday.

It is intended to dock with the orbiting lab module Tiangong-1, China's state-run news agency Xinhua reported.

The Tiangong-1 was launched into orbit in September 2011. It docked with the Shenzhou-8 unmanned spacecraft in November 2011 and with the Shenzhou-9 manned spacecraft in June 2012.

The mission will further assess the performance of the docking system, the combination's capabilities in supporting life and work, and the performance of astronauts in the lab, officials said.

Building on its experience with the Tiangong module, China says it plans to build its own full space station around 2020.

http://en.ce.cn/National/stech/201303/0 ... 9085.shtml

2014 maiden launch for Long March-7 rocket

Last Updated:2013-03-01 18:57 | Xinhua Save Print E-mail

China's indigenous carrier rocket Long March-7 will hopefully make its first launch in 2014, a senior official of the rocket's designing institute said on Friday.

Liang Xiaohong, Party chief of the China Academy of Launch Vehicle Technology, made the remarks during an exclusive interview with Xinhua.

Researchers of the rocket have made key technological breakthroughs, including in the design and production of a staged combustion cycle liquid oxygen and kerosene engine, which can produce a thrust of 180 kilonewtons, he said.

For the carrier rocket Long March-5, which will hopefully make its debut launch within three years, researchers have grasped key technologies for production and testing of most of the rocket structure's parts, including its 5.2-meter-diameter cowl and five-meter-diameter compartment.

They are striving for breakthroughs in technologies associated with the five-meter-diameter cryogenic propellant tank that stores liquid hydrogen fuels for the Long March-5, according to Liang.

Both the Long March-7 and the Long March-5 are expected to rank among the backbone carrier rockets for China's future space missions.

http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/China ... 4_999.html

According to Liang, the Long March-5 rocket will more than triple Chinese rockets' carrying capacity in the outer space, with a maximum low Earth-orbit payload capacity of 25 tonnes and geosynchronous orbit payload capacity of 14 tonnes.

[VinodTK]

China claims new J-15 fighter jet can operate in 1,000 km radius

As it rapidly modernises its military, China today claimed that its new J-15 fighter jet which will operate from its recently-acquired aircraft carrier, can cover a radius of 1,000 kms in attack missions.

The J-15 fighter jet is able to cover an area with a radius of over 1,000 km on attack missions, Sun Cong, a chief designer of the plane told state-run Xinhua news agency.

The jet reaches similar technical standards of the third-generation carrier-borne fighters currently in service, Sun, also a member of the advisory legislative body National Committee of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference, (CPPCC) said.

"The jet is close to the US F-18 Hornet fighter jet in terms of bomb load, combat radius and mobility," he said.

According to some reports, Russia was upset as the J-15 resembled its Su-33.

Sun said great progress has been made on the fire-control radar and guided missiles on the fighter but more has to be done to improve its electronic countermeasures.

Nicknamed the "Flying Shark," the J-15 fighter passed a test flight in August 2009.

Last November, it conducted a successful landing on China's first aircraft carrier, the Liaoning.

[VinodTK]

China hikes defence budget; it's 3 times more than India's