Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 03 Apr 2013 14:04

According to some long lost article, S-300s if any are all deployed in Dilli sultanate in a strategic role onlee. No such equipment for battlefield batteries.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 Apr 2013 14:39

the S300PMU/V series has no ATBM capability at all. or atleast no ability to intercept IRBM class missiles.

nits · Post by **nits** » 03 Apr 2013 15:17

There is a pic which surfaced some time back claiming that this is S300 on Indian roads... not sure how authentic it is

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 03 Apr 2013 15:41

What S-300 series in Mumbai?

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 03 Apr 2013 15:42

^^^

That is a Mobile Styx launcher.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 03 Apr 2013 17:31

Perhaps not for ballistic missiles, but it's still good enough for most cruise missiles that Cheen can throw at us. Just the radar can give a fairly good advance warning.
The thing in picture doesn't even look like a S-300 launcher. Missile part is too short. Photo is not very old either, barely 2-3 years IIRC

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 03 Apr 2013 17:54

MMCB - Mobile Missile Coastal Battery More here http://indiannavy.nic.in/print/1533

Here is the one proposed at Calcutta http://in.rediff.com/news/2005/dec/07base.htm

Lots of standalone ST-68 radars procured but no missiles http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Images/Eqpmt/Radars/

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 03 Apr 2013 18:12

Once India got the Green Pine I think the Russian offers faded.

BTW, that picture is from Worli Sea Face, Bombay.

Eric Leiderman · Post by **Eric Leiderman** » 03 Apr 2013 21:27

That's the new cop car, to ensure no drunk drivers on the road, note how strategically it is located right next to the sign it is going to enforce.

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 07 Apr 2013 01:02

N-tipped Agni-II user trial likely on Sunday.

In a bid to make the 2,000-km-plus range Agni-II missile fully operational(???), the Indian Army is readying to conduct a fresh user trial of the weapon from a defence base off the Odisha coast on Sunday.

The indigenously developed nuclear capable surface-to-surface ballistic missile is likely to be test fired from the Wheeler Island test range anytime in between 8.30 am to 11.30 am.

Defence sources said preparation for the trial had been finished and the missile loaded in a mobile launcher had already been positioned in the launching complex-IV of the test facility.

While the Strategic Forces Command (SFC) of the army would carry out the test as part of its ‘training exercise’, the trial is aimed at providing the Army requisite confidence and capability to fire the missile on its own without the help of defence scientists.

The Integrated Test Range (ITR) officials are expecting a successful trial of the missile as this is the first test of a missile from Wheeler Island this year and second test from the ITR after an unsuccessful maiden trial of Nirbhay cruise missile last month.

Describing the reasons behind repeated user trials of nuclear capable missiles, a defence scientist said a missile isn't considered fully developed unless it undergoes at least 15 to 20 test-flights under different weather and operational conditions for range and accuracy.

“It is essential that missiles capable of delivering nuclear warheads should have a near-zero failure rate to minimise mishaps at the firing end. Besides, such trials give the user confidence to handle the state-of-the-art weapon systems with an ease,” he added.

The Agni-II missile, which was test-fired in 1999 has a length of 21 meters, a diameter of 1.3 meters and weighs 17 tonnes. It is designed to carry special weapons including nuclear payload of over one tonne.

The missile has appropriate on-board thrusters fitted on the second stage of the missile and both its stages have a solid propulsion system, which allows the missile to be mobile and flexible.

Two down range naval ships have been positioned to track the missile till it reaches the target area while a network of radars, telemetry and electro-optical tracking systems kept along the sea coast to monitor its path and evaluate all parameters in real time.

Agni-II is one of the key weapon systems of the country's nuclear deterrence doctrine and has already been inducted into the armed forces since 2004. Senior DRDO officials and army personnel have arrived at the Wheeler Island to witness the test firing.

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 07 Apr 2013 10:54

A-2 test fired @ 10:20

vasu raya · Post by **vasu raya** » 07 Apr 2013 11:34

Not entirely related to Agni, with the new generation missiles being road mobile, the road cum rail trailers used for Agni-2/3 logistics earlier can now be used for carrying KMGT (rated at 12MW) kind of gas turbines but CNG based. IR now has 4.1MW freight locos, they could tandemize 3 freight locos powered by the gas turbine carried on a former missile carrying rail trailer and a CNG wagon for long distance python trains.

the same trailer when put on road could be used for backup generator duties. With multi-use the capex investment for such initiative has higher yields.

ramdas · Post by **ramdas** » 07 Apr 2013 11:40

Vasuji,

The Agni-2/3 will remain in service for several years to come. The Agni-3 has been in production since 2010 at the earliest. It has only been through its first operational trial.

Even Agni-4/5 have so far appeared only in the road cum rail trailer you have mentioned. In fact, for swift deployment of Agni-4/5, they should test the current (uncanisterized) configuration in quick succession and deploy the first production batches in the standard road cum rail trailer. Then they can move on to the canisterized variants in later batches.

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 07 Apr 2013 12:56

^^^^
While congratulations are due for a successful launch. I have a noob question:

Why are these launches done in a lab condition? Why not from a hill in the NE, or the deserts of Rajasthan, or the plains of Punjab? I do understand the complexity of getting telemetry data and tracking, which can be used in the future, but methinks, that lugging it somewhere and popping the canister shoul aslo be done?

JMT

member_19648 · Post by **member_19648** » 07 Apr 2013 13:31

From the hills of NE or Rajasthan to where? If the missile flies over the Indian mainland, chances are that if there is some problem, the missile might fall over populated areas causing a disaster. So they have testing ranges unless ofcourse the pure species, who test missiles like Diwali rockets in all directions, sometimes to Iran, sometimes to Balochistan and so on...

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 07 Apr 2013 15:49

^^^^^Nuclear capable Agni-II missile successfully test fired

Balasore (Odisha): The medium range nuclear capable Agni-II missile was on Sunday successfully test-fired with a strike range of more than 2,000 km from the Wheeler Island off Odisha coast.

"The trial of the surface-to-surface missile was conducted from a mobile launcher from the Launch Complex-4 of Integrated Test Range (ITR) at around 10.20 am," defence sources said.

"Agni-II Intermediate Range Ballistic Missile (IRBM) has already been inducted into the services and today's test was carried out by the Strategic Forces Command (SFC) of the Army as part of training exercise with logistic support provided by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO)," the sources said.

The two-stage missile equipped with advanced high accuracy navigation system, guided by a novel scheme of state of the earth command and control system was propelled by solid rocket propellant system, they said.

"The entire trajectory of the trial was tracked by a battery of sophisticated radars, telemetry observation stations, electro-optic instruments and naval ships located near the impact point in the down range area of the sea," said a DRDO scientist.

The 20-metre long Agni-II is a two-stage, solid-propelled ballistic missile. It has a launch weight of 17 tonnes and can carry a payload of 1,000 kg over a distance of 2,000 km.

The state-of-the-art Agni-II missile was developed by Advanced Systems Laboratory (ASL) and integrated by the Bharat Dynamics Limited (BDL), Hyderabad.

Agni-II is part of the Agni series of missiles developed by DRDO which includes Agni-I with a 700 km range, Agni-III with a 3,000 km range, Agni-IV with 4,000 km range and Agni-V more than 5,000 km range. The last trial of Agni-II conducted on August 9 last year from the same base, was a total success.

"Today's test fire was successful. It met all the parameters. It was 100 per cent successful," M.V.K.V. Prasad, the director of Integrated Test Range (ITR), told PTI.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 07 Apr 2013 16:48

Agni-II Missile Successfully Test Fired - The Hindu

In the coming months, India plans to fire several missiles including Agni-I and Agni-III, Prithvi, Akash, Nag, Astra, Helina and Prahar.

Plans are afoot to launch Agni-V with a range of 5,000 km in June.

Mihir · Post by **Mihir** » 07 Apr 2013 20:42

The usual suspects are out in full force, it looks like.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 08 Apr 2013 13:47

TOI: per recent presentation to CCS, following are planned over next 4 months..in addition to smaller items ofcourse
- A5 (June)
- Arihant sea trials
- Arihant K15 test
- phase2 BMD test (not sure if PAD or AD1)

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 09 Apr 2013 04:27

DRDo owns the range where these vehicles are proofed. So what is Manoj Joshi's real takleef?
BTW even in massa the AF vehicles are tested from designated test centers/locations.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 09 Apr 2013 05:37

An SFC spokesman said, the flight "most importantly, conveys our preparedness to meet any eventuality. The mission "fully validated our operational readiness as also the reliability of the systems and the missile.”

take that you major tivari

member_23370 · Post by **member_23370** » 09 Apr 2013 06:31

Its combined Phase I BMD test not Phas-II yet.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 09 Apr 2013 23:13

No updates on Nirbhay flight anomaly yet?

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 10 Apr 2013 01:08

I yearn to know about its engine and TEL.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 10 Apr 2013 04:01

Whats the big deal about the TEL. Several firms now exist (and so do DRDO labs) that can operationalize a decent TEL.
Regarding the engine, I hope DRDO keeps its mouth shut, puts the details in a bag and throws it in a dark cupboard and only says its an indigenous solution. There is no advantage to be gained by tom tomming that we use any Russian or Martian or any other solution. The biggest hypocrites in the world, who run cartels will only be too eager to try and shut down any source of engines that we have, and any technology that we seek to operationalize.
My 2 cents & no offence intended.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Apr 2013 09:54

the shourya TEL will do just fine. but they have 4 tubes in the model shown , somewhat like the thawk GLCM launcher of yore.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 13 Apr 2013 08:57

Scam-wary Army calls off Israeli missile deal

NEW DELHI: After years of searching for an anti-tank guided missile (ATGM) and finalizing an Israeli product, the Army has dramatically called off the deal because of fears of the single tender procurement erupting into a controversy in the future.

According to sources, the ATGM deal worth about Rs 15,000 crore, the biggest deal in recent times for the Army, was listed on the agenda of the defence acquisition council (DAC), headed by defence minister AK Antony, on April 2. It was originally meant to be cleared by the council for final approval of the Cabinet committee on security (CCS) headed by the Prime Minister.

However, Army chief General Bikram Singh is believed to have told the DAC that the Army was cancelling the deal and opting for a fresh process. The Army chief's move has surprised many, because of the aggressive way Army headquarters had been pushing the deal until then.

The deal is meant to equip 356 infantry battalions of the Army with the latest ATGMs. The Indian Army had been in advance stages of negotiations with Rafael Advanced Defence Systems of Israel for purchase of Spike ATGMs.

The Army had been searching for the past several years for a modern anti-tank missile to replace Milan and Konkurs — both in service with the Army for a few decades now. First, the Army zeroed in on a government-to-government deal with the US for the Javelin missiles — jointly produced by Raytheon and Lockheed Martin — but it fell through after the US refused transfer of technology for indigenous production in India by Bharat Dynamics Limited.

While some sources insist that the deal could be brought back to the desk after a global technology scan and ensuring that there are no other options available, there is now clarity on the issue. Sources admit that the deal is over, and a fresh process will start.

Sources said the era of single vendor procurements — unless it is an extraordinary situation — is virtually over. In recent years, companies from Russia, Israel and even the US have bagged several contracts through single vendor situations.

Changes in procurement process get nod

The DAC has approved several amendments to the way military equipment is purchased in the country. Among them are a series of measures to increase accountability in terms of timeframe for selecting a product. The DAC has also approved removal of all references to Raksha Udyog Ratnas from the Defence Procurement Procedure.

The status was meant to be granted to about a dozen firms, which were to be given preferential treatment at par with defence PSUs in military contracts. The second amendment is that the acceptance of necessity, the first step in procurement, will be granted only after services have prepared the (general staff qualitative requirement) for an equipment.

srin · Post by **srin** » 13 Apr 2013 10:03

I'm trying to understand how the second round will help. The parameters can't be diluted (it will be AW101 all over again), so they have to go with the same requirements. And this time if Raytheon doesn't offer Javelin (because Spike is seen as "favourite"), then the tendering will fall through again.

The only way out seems to be to have man-portable derivative of Nag (or CLGM). Who knows, with the current pace of tendering and procurement, local R&D might actually be faster.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 13 Apr 2013 10:05

Which brings on the question, what are the reasons why no MP NAG was developed.

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 13 Apr 2013 17:14

srin wrote:I'm trying to understand how the second round will help. The parameters can't be diluted (it will be AW101 all over again), so they have to go with the same requirements...

With exit of Javelin, there is nothing but spike left and this is being certified as we speak. This scam wariness could be a scam in the making itself. Poor India.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 13 Apr 2013 17:19

This is an excellent opportunity to start developing the MP NAG. It may even be possible to finish the project within 18 months, using the technologies developed CLGM, and the NAG.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 13 Apr 2013 18:53

our capacity in supporting parallel projects in the non-strategic missile space seems to be in its infancy.
astra2, MP nag, mini-brahmos all seem to be held up by lack of staff, funding or user interest.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 13 Apr 2013 23:23

Backdoor entry of Javelin again?

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 14 Apr 2013 00:14

Pratyush wrote:Which brings on the question, what are the reasons why no MP NAG was developed.

Because they sat over it for close to a decade now. In 2005, I had read reports about scientists starting to work on Helina and Nag-MP. I won't say much more

.

Sagar G · Post by **Sagar G** » 14 Apr 2013 00:29

indranilroy wrote:Because they sat over it for close to a decade now. In 2005, I had read reports about scientists starting to work on Helina and Nag-MP. I won't say much more .

Can you show me any QR given by army to DRDO for the same so that DRDO could have started working on it ?? All the public reports don't make any mention about the same. If DRDO starts working on a weapon system and the army rejects it then CAG goes into soosai mode objecting on the very effort asking how dare you work on something for which army didn't ask for.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 14 Apr 2013 01:16

Do you have one for Helina? Is their a requirement spec for CLGM? Their are requirements and markets for them. DRDO was right in developing them on its own. HAL is developing HTT-40 on its, as it rightly should. I wish it did that a decade back, but atleast we won't miss the next cycle of procurement! This is common sense! Have you read their last HAL-Connect magazine. They are forecasting markets and developing products, even if they would compete with existing products. They are developing engines/UAVs based on future needs. None of them have been specified by any users. There is just a sur-shot market for them in the future. Way to go! Simple common sense.

What has BDL been doing. It has been producing Milan 2T for about 3 decades now? Couldn't it have developed the next gen man portable version in all these years?! I know it is a production agency, but 1 with 0 R&D?

Don't always retort to the convenient answer of Army/IAF did not do it's part to hide incompetence or laziness or even hurdles. If it is difficult, say it is difficult. What is the big deal?!

Sagar G · Post by **Sagar G** » 14 Apr 2013 01:29

indranilroy wrote:Do you have one for Helina?

That's not an answer to what I asked. Give a simple Yes/No.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 14 Apr 2013 01:33

Sagar G wrote:
indranilroy wrote:Do you have one for Helina?
That's not an answer to what I asked. Give a simple Yes/No.

Your entire question was.

Sagar G wrote:
indranilroy wrote:Because they sat over it for close to a decade now. In 2005, I had read reports about scientists starting to work on Helina and Nag-MP. I won't say much more .
Can you show me any QR given by army to DRDO for the same so that DRDO could have started working on it ?? All the public reports don't make any mention about the same. If DRDO starts working on a weapon system and the army rejects it then CAG goes into soosai mode objecting on the very effort asking how dare you work on something for which army didn't ask for.

Your basis is Army/Iaf will just torpedo any desi development. I just showed you, that it is not the case.

Sagar G · Post by **Sagar G** » 14 Apr 2013 01:41

indranilroy wrote:Your basis is Army/Iaf will just torpedo any desi development. I just showed you, that it is not the case.

You still haven't answered my question so stop playing games I know very well what I have written, you don't have to highlight my post to me.

Give me an answer in Yes/No.

Sagar G · Post by **Sagar G** » 14 Apr 2013 01:46

indranilroy wrote:What has BDL been doing. It has been producing Milan 2T for about 3 decades now? Couldn't it have developed the next gen man portable version in all these years?! I know it is a production agency, but 1 with 0 R&D?

Yes that's how MoD has wanted it to be.

indranilroy wrote:Don't always retort to the convenient answer of Army/IAF did not do it's part to hide incompetence or laziness or even hurdles. If it is difficult, say it is difficult. What is the big deal?!

You have no inside knowledge about a man portable version but still you are ready to make your own idea's about who is at fault and all this with half baked knowledge about the situation. Amazing !!!

P.S.- Damn you have quick editing skills