Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

[Austin]

I am somewhat bemused, in India, we would have ID'ed the exact explosive used, its provenance, the sleeper cells involved etc. by now and also shared the same.

In India they would some times just fake the information to ease the pressure or come out as good cop cracked the case within x hours , if these people are that good and know the sleeper cell involved , the person involved etc within 24 hours why couldnt they stop it in first place.

I remember an incident in multiple train blast in Mumbai that occured in 1st class compartment and many were killed , the police commisioner in few days claimed they cracked the incident and caught the culprit , the HM was not amused and called the commisioner to Delhi , what they caught was some poor migrant and the real culprit fled to POK and later claimed from there they did it.

We really do not know in how many occasion the police just fakes it as solved the case because the court case goes for long time and how many are convicted we have no clue , in the mean time some innocent guys suffer and the real people are either in Pakistan or fled to bangaladesh or nepal.

There are so many bomb blast and terror incident happening in this country that you forget the last one when new one occurs

[SaiK]

1. I am somewhat bemused, in India, we would have ID'ed the exact explosive used, its provenance, the sleeper cells involved etc. by now and also shared the same.

2. Whats "its too early to say" nonsense in US? They think revealing the data will hurt the investigation? While talking about "police looking for dark skinned possibly asian male" type of statements? Thats like asking for lynch mobs instead of dealing with the issue.

3. Or is it that the needle is specifically at ISI/LeT and the Paki loving Kerry and Obama are in a funk as to how to react?

1. I can answer.. people are more networked in desh without any high tech devices than the high tech khans. So, information gets passed so fast.. even in the case of probability of false positives, people would have a joint info on hand pretty quick. The venn diagrams are clear, when the such bombing wars are clearly attributed to certain zones. BTW, there could be false negatives too.. where we believe that our finger point so soon is backed by perfect evidence.. which may not be the case. We can't prove or disprove what is said in DDM nor this feeling that India does ID these things fast.

2. Simply shows, right now, they are clueless.

3. your call may be there.. in the right direction, but hard for the khans to surrender now if that is true.

So, i will go with option 3 now till they can do show something in 2.

[anmol]

"Arrests in Pakistan, Afghanistan' in Boston Marathon probe,"

by Aaron Klein in WND, April 16:

TEL AVIV – An al-Qaida-allied group in the Gaza Strip claimed to WND that there have been arrests of jihadists in both Pakistan and Afghanistan as part of the probe into yesterday’s Boston Marathon explosions.
The arrests could not be immediately confirmed.

Members of Gaza’s Jihadiya Salafia group further said that al-Qaida is being credited for the attack in its affiliated online forums.

The Gaza sources told WND the online al-Qaida forum messages claimed the bombings were an al-Qaida response to a U.S. military airstrike that killed a high-profile Taliban leader and four other Taliban members last week near Afghanistan’s eastern border with Pakistan.

Jihadia Salafia represents al-Qaida in Gaza.

It was not immediately clear whether the Internet claims should be taken seriously or simply represented jihadists utilizing the explosions....

The Pakistani Taliban today reportedly denied any role in the marathon bombings.

Media blame right-wing

While the initial indications may point toward Islamic terrorism, some in the media have been speculating it could have been a domestic attack, with some analysts suggesting “right wing extremists” were involved.

CNN national-security analyst Peter Bergen said some of the information will become clear when police reveal what kind of explosive was used.

Bergen said al-Qaida often uses hydrogen peroxide explosives, while another type of explosion might signal that a “right-wing extremist” was involved.

The explosions, Bergan said, reminded him of the Oklahoma City bombing, for which Timothy McVeigh was arrested, convicted and executed.

And Bergen said it also brought to mind other “right-wing” attacks.

“Right-wing groups trying to attack, for instance – trying to attack the Martin Luther King parade in Oregon in 2010,” he said. “So, if it is a device of some kind, you know, we shouldn’t leap to conclusion about where it’s coming from.”

Also today, the U.K. Independent ran a report quoting a terror expert who claimed the marathon attack has hints the handiwork of a right-wing terrorist attack rather than al Qaida-inspired extremism....

[Sanku]

[
In India they would some times just fake the information to ease the pressure or come out as good cop cracked the case within x hours , if these people are that good and know the sleeper cell involved , the person involved etc within 24 hours why couldnt they stop it in first place.

Austin ji, they cant prevent it because of political pressure, after the blast the pressure lifts somewhat so they can act.

There are fake calls for sure, but we definetly do a better job, probably because we are hit more often, and we have what 1/10 the resources.

[chaanakya]

Oh CNN says one of the b ombs was in pressure cooker. Anyone remembers where it was used by LeT in India, Mumbai long time back.

Shrapnel BB etc were used.

[Philip]

All roads lead to Rome and all terrorist bombs lead to Bombistan,aka Pak.

[sadhana]

Pressure cookers, ball bearings and duffel bags

From 2008
http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-new ... 39883.aspx

From 2013
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/video/hyde ... 51746.html

[ramana]

One big fallout will be security at large public events in the world will become more strict.

chaanakya and others please provide link to any info as a lot of rumors are floating around and now is not the itme to contribute to that flow.

That NYPost appears to be a sensational rag that mis-reported the number of dead early on and caused lot of consternation.

[SaiK]

good sadhana there! nice finds.

[chaanakya]

2006

http://www.hindu.com/2006/10/01/stories ... 621000.htm

The police have concluded that pressure cookers were used for the blasts. They located the two shops where eight pressure cookers of five-litre capacity were bought. Seven of these were packed with RDX and ammonium nitrate, placed in carry bags covered with newspapers and an umbrella and then taken to the Churchgate station. The police do not know what was done with the eighth pressure cooker.

First class coaches

The men who planted the bombs entered Churchgate through a subway that leads directly to platforms 2 and 3 from where fast trains to the distant Mumbai suburbs leave. The first compartment that faces the subways is the first class general compartment. As a result, all the bombs were placed in these compartments on different trains.


They were then brought to Bandra, to the flat rented by Faizal Sheikh, one of the main suspects who, the police say, is the western commander of the Laskhar-e-Taiba. It is from here that the bags with the pressure cooker bombs were transported by taxi to the Churchgate station in south Mumbai, the starting point for all trains on the Western Railway.

More on that
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mumbai_ser ... stigations

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Mumbai_train_bombings


Warning Graphic pictures
http://www.instablogs.com/worst-serial- ... india.html

http://www.indiatvnews.com/print/news/t ... 369-1.html

Seeing these photos Boston Vlast looks punny with little in terms of casualty to show. Whatever statement LeT wanted to make was surely feeble.

[ramana]

CNN
Pressure cooker and backpack used. Timer most likely used.

Pzr cooker and backpack used

Looks like Paki Modus Operandi.

All IM/Paki training blasts in Hyderabad were using this technique.

One odd thing about IM blasts is timers are not found. Recall Varanasi etc....

[chaanakya]

One big fallout will be security at large public events in the world will become more strict.

chaanakya and others please provide link to any info as a lot of rumors are floating around and now is not the itme to contribute to that flow.

That NYPost appears to be a sensational rag that mis-reported the number of dead early on and caused lot of consternation.

Well It was coming on CNN which I was watching so I have put the info quick to be linked later as more details emerge. I am not sure if CNN is treated as authentic or rumor monger/sensational.

Here is the link now on their website

Details emerge: Boston bombs may have involved pressure cooker, timer

One of the deadly Boston Marathon bombs was apparently placed inside a metal pressure cooker and hidden in a backpack, a federal law enforcement official said Tuesday.

A timer was likely used to activate one of the bombs, rather than a cell phone, another law enforcement official said.

Details began to emerge as investigators combed through shreds of evidence in what Boston Police Commissioner Ed Davis called "the most complex crime scene that we've dealt with in the history of our department."

The cordoned off area has been reduced from 15 blocks to 12, he said.

Even the smallest bits of debris could help indicate the bombs' "signature," said a federal law enforcement official who works in the intelligence community.

The two bombs Monday turned a crowded celebration into devastation, killing three people including an 8-year-old boy. More than 170 people were wounded.

The explosives themselves were small, and initial tests showed no C-4 or other high-grade explosive material -- suggesting the packages used in the attack were crude devices, a federal law enforcement official in the intelligence community said.

Based on the bombs' effects, the devices could have been small enough to be concealed in small bags or boxes, a law enforcement official said. The smoke was consistent with a "low-velocity improvised explosive mixture, perhaps flash powder or sugar chlorate mixture," the official said.

Asked whether what was found in the patients' bodies could have come from nearby objects that exploded in the blast, Velmahos said he believes the materials were likely part of the explosive devices.

Ron Walls, chair of emergency medicine at Brigham and Women's Hospital, said most patients there were wounded by "ordinary debris." But three were injured by "perfectly round objects" that were "very uniform, consistent, metallic," he said. And another patient had more than 12 carpenter-type nails.

[kish]

Boston Marathon Attack Still Mysterious

This law-enforcement official notes that the manner of the attack suggests it may have been Al Qaeda inspired—if not Al Qaeda directed. According to this official, the first reports about the construction of the bombs indicates they may have been built similarly to those described by Al Qaeda on its Internet manuals for terrorist attacks. Individuals or small groups have, in the past, tried to carry out bombings based on those plans

[sadhana]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/17/us/of ... sions.html

An explosive device fashioned from a pressure cooker was also used in the attempted bombing of Times Square in New York in 2010.

[ramana]

NYT :Bomb details emerge

officials said that the explosives used in Monday’s lethal attack were probably some kind of “pressure-cooker” devices that can send sharp bits of shrapnel flying into victims in the vicinity.

.....
An explosive device fashioned from a pressure cooker was also used in the attempted bombing of Times Square in New York in 2010.

NYPost:
Heinous Crime:Obama

The explosives used in yesterday’s Boston Marathon attack were hidden in pressure cookers and concealed in black duffel bags, sources said today.

The 6-liter pressure cookers contained shards of metal, nails and ball bearings, according to a person briefed on the investigation.

The crude-but-deadly bombs were likely set off by a timer, law enforcement sources told NBC News.

.....

So there is pattern. Paki hand for most India watchers.

[RamaY]

Aman ki Asha reached the shores of the sponsor!

My condolences to victim's families! Your tax dollars at work!

[kish]

NYT :Bomb details emerge

officials said that the explosives used in Monday’s lethal attack were probably some kind of “pressure-cooker” devices that can send sharp bits of shrapnel flying into victims in the vicinity.

.....
An explosive device fashioned from a pressure cooker was also used in the attempted bombing of Times Square in New York in 2010.

NYPost:
Heinous Crime:Obama

The explosives used in yesterday’s Boston Marathon attack were hidden in pressure cookers and concealed in black duffel bags, sources said today.

The 6-liter pressure cookers contained shards of metal, nails and ball bearings, according to a person briefed on the investigation.

The crude-but-deadly bombs were likely set off by a timer, law enforcement sources told NBC News.

.....

So there is pattern. Paki hand for most India watchers.

India could offer help in investigation , 'Indian Intel.' know a thing or two about pakis.

Heavy documentation of Boston Marathon is an asset to investigation

“This is probably one of the most photographed areas in the country yesterday,” Davis told reporters.

Investigators said they had already received a huge volume of tips, but appealed to the public to share any amateur photos or videos they might provide clues. Officials have said they do not have any suspects.

“There have to be hundreds if not thousands of photographs or videos or observations that were made down at that finish line yesterday,” said Col. Timothy Alben, superintendent of the Massachusetts State Police.

“I would encourage you to bring forward anything,” he said. “You might not think it’s significant, but it might have some value to this investigation.”

A federal law enforcement official said the FBI is also checking cellphone activity on towers near the scene of the blasts. Experts say that data could be particularly useful if the explosives were detonated by phone, especially since they know the exact time the blast occurred.

“Get a dump for the closest tower and look for all calls or texts terminating at the bomb site from 2:49 to 2:50 p.m.,” said Michael Sussmann, a former federal prosecutor who now represents wireless providers as a partner at Perkins Coie law firm in Washington. “If there are many, it will be a one to five second call, so look for short calls. Then correlate with the other blast site and see if the incoming number at the time of the second blast matches.”

If the tower data yield suspect numbers, investigators can obtain from the phone company subscriber information giving name, address and billing information. If the phone was a disposable model, it’s possible to learn where the phone was purchased. Surveillance cameras near the point of sale could provide further clues, some former federal prosecutors said.

If the bomber used two different cell phones, then that makes tracking them back more difficult.

In general, cell tower data will be more useful once investigators have a lead on a suspect. But collecting that data now makes sense to have it on hand to sift through later, officials said. Each clue is a piece to a jigsaw puzzle, and the tower records may have that piece that later helps the picture become clear.

[shyamd]

Similar method employed by IM in Varanasi and other places in India

[ramana]

^^^ Above on cell phones is nice but so far the investigation says its a timer device.

Also there were two EOD sweeps of the area near the finish line : one early before the race and another one hour before the finish. The blasts occured ~ 1 hour after the finish.

So most likely they were planted around 1 hour before the blasts.

The pzr cooker narrows the perpetrators. NYT says its same as the Times Square fizzle in 2010. At that time the perpetrator was arrested trying to catch a plane. And has training in FATA badlands. And TTP was blamed and quite few got droned.
So maybe the TTP is now pre-emptively denying or dis-crediting themselves.

Most likely someone trained to TSP did this.

[kish]

Aman ki Asha reached the shores of the sponsor!

My condolences to victim's families! Your tax dollars at work!

Its a serious loss of H&D for the Americans, the slogan "Bin Laden's dead and al Qaeda is on the run!" can't be repeated anymore.

If it has paki connection as widely believed, Sec. of state Mr. Kerry will be in deep pakistan.

[sunnyP]

Out of 23K runners who started, nearly 17K finished the race before it was called off. The people who did not finish the race must be greatly disappointed and cursing who ever did this.

You think they really care? They'll just be thankful to be alive and unharmed. What's the point of finishing the race if you're going to lose a limb at the end of it.

[Amber G.]

From: http://www.wnd.com/
'Arrests in Pakistan, Afghanistan' in Boston Marathon probe

– An al-Qaida-allied group in the Gaza Strip claimed to WND that there have been arrests of jihadists in both Pakistan and Afghanistan as part of the probe into yesterday’s Boston Marathon explosions.

[KLNMurthy]

Lets hold our horses till a clearer picture emerges.
In related news

These commenters are hyderabadis. Can someone with contacts point the right people towards them?

[Rudradev]

We can chalk one more up to the "Test in India- Execute in West" methodology

1999 IC814 low-tech hijacking -> 2001 9/11 low-tech hijacking

2003, 2006 Mumbai public transit bombings -> 2004 Madrid and 2007 London public transit bombings

Post 2009 Varanasi, Bangalore, Hyderabad, Mumbai etc. low-explosive cottage-industry IEDs in multiple blasts -> 2013 Boston bombs

Only the 26/11 technique hasn't found an application in the West yet.

[ramana]

NBC News Pete Williams et al..

Bombs were pzr cookers in back packs

Investigators believe the bombs at the Boston Marathon were shrapnel-studded pressure cookers, hidden in backpacks and set off by timers, law enforcement officials told NBC News on Tuesday.

.......

ligth bulbs lighting up

...And in 2006, more than 130 people were killed on the transit system of Mumbai, India, when pressure cookers loaded with explosives were placed on trains.

....

[chaanakya]

Soms paki army or airforce sons would get arrested. All clues seem to point to ISI-LeT common MO.

[kish]

Found this while searching for reported paki & Afghani arrests, in paki media for Boston bombing. paki media is conspicuously silent about the arrests.

[url=httpxxx://www.thenews.com.pk/article-97057-16-kil ... ally-blast]16 killed, 35 wounded in Peshawar ANP rally blast[/url]

At least 16 people including policemen and minors were killed and near 35 more wounded in a suicide bomb blast that tore through an Awami National Party (ANP) corner meeting here on Tuesday evening, Geo News reported.

Reportedly, the moderate intensity blast struck when at least 200-300 ANP workers as well as leaders were attending a public meeting in Yakatoot area of Peshawar.

Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan claimed responsibility for what was the fourth deadly attack on politicians or political parties in three days as the country prepares to hold historic polls on May 11

[SaiK]

okay IT IS PAKIS.. Now why at boston marathon, in front of all international flags?

[kish]

okay IT IS PAKIS.. Now why at boston marathon, in front of all international flags?

GAURAV C. SAWANT ‏@gauravcsawant 20m

IEDs: ball bearings,shrapnel in a pressure cooker, in bags. Twin blasts like at Boston marathon. India has suffered similar terror attacks

Indian media is getting the hint, U.S media is still clueless.

[ramana]

I got to hear two press conferences on XM Radio. Have to hand it to them for the confidence and care they exhibited. From the Governor onwards were at hand to address questions. The President was there in his own conferences. Same message of cooperation and interaction among the myriad (~55) agencies involved.

In India the first thing that happens is the PM goes into hiding and lowest level official will be put out to address the press at the scene. And MHA Secy will release some statement of how local officials were warned to ward of any criticism in advance! Then Doggy Raja will make loud *arts that saffron terrorists are involved. Maximum effort to present a dysfunctional response will be in display. And PC will want to move more laws to strengthen his already strong hands!

Maybe a good thing for no one so far has been able to make out what MMS says.

[Narad]

IED + sharpnels in Pressure cooker : Shramjeevi express Varanasi, Sankat Mochan Temple Varanasi 2006, Mumbai train bombings 2007, Delhi serial blast 2005, Hyderabad and many more.
IED+Sharpnels in Bag --> German bakery bombings, pune etc.
In milk container : Varanasi ghat
In tiffins --> Ahmedabad serial blasts

The things common in all above are: IEDs, sharpenels, container and Lashkar-e-toiba !!

[Vayutuvan]

Piers Morgan and Cruikshank on CNN are grating on my nerves. Pm says "some crazy American" typical British snobbery. Cruickshank has this deer caught in the head lights kind of weird expression on his face.

I am quoting my own post to expand:

1. The bomber could be a stupid Pakistani trained British.
2. The bomber could be a "commoner" IRA republican
3. The bomber could be British pasand mullah from Saudi.

<sarc>British racists should not be allowed into US</sarc>

[SaiK]

Boston is as British it can be. So, they may be wanting Scotland yard here rather FBI.

unnecessary comment and OT/ edited by me.

[RamaY]

Boston is as British it can be. So, they may be wanting Scotland yard here rather FBI.

That explains their g***ish behavior...

[ramana]

SaiK, Is that necessary?

[anjan]

In India they would some times just fake the information to ease the pressure or come out as good cop cracked the case within x hours , if these people are that good and know the sleeper cell involved , the person involved etc within 24 hours why couldnt they stop it in first place.

Intelligence at the ground level in India tends to be damn good actually. In Chennai, walking my dog I once stumbled upon our watchman telling the beat policeman about who was new in the building and who'd come to stay etc. They don't act due to political pressure, some corruption, lack of interest etc. Your average state IB is no slouch.

[Satya_anveshi]

Not sure if this was posted:

The Significance of Patriot's Day

In his speech following today's explosions at the Boston Marathon, President Obama noted that today is Patriot's Day in Massachusetts. "It's a day that celebrates the free and fiercely independent spirit that this great American city of Boston has reflected from the earliest days of our nation," the president said during a briefing where he made it clear that we don't yet know who was behind today's attack. But Obama wasn't the first to mention the holiday in the wake of the attack—speculation had already started swirling on Twitter about the possible significance of the Massachusetts Monday holiday on which the marathon is held every year.

With that in mind, a quick primer on Patriot's Day: It commemorates the opening battles of the American Revolutionary War, the battles of Lexington and Concord, both held on April 19, 1775. The holiday has become best known for the marathon and is in fact also referred to as "Marathon Monday."

So why were people so quick to speculate about the holiday's possible significance? Undoubtedly because they were inspired by the fact that this week does contain a number of unhappy anniversaries: the Oklahoma City Bombing (April 19, 1995), the Waco assault (April 19, 1993), the Columbine School Shooting (April 20, 1999), and the Virginia Tech massacre (April 16, 2007), for starters. Two of those tragedies—the Virginia Tech massacre and the Waco assault—were on Monday, the Patriot's Day of those years

[ramana]

The facts leaked so far point to Paki technique yet the person of interest is odd.

Need to await further details.

[Amber G.]

My thoughts and prayers are with victims and their families.

One polite request to posters here. Please keep off-topic posts away from this thread. If you think Obama is a fraud, or US is evil, or have a academic thesis about war and peace.. there are many threads in brf -- where those thoughts can go. So unless these are related to the subject matter, keep those posts in other threads. Please!

This blast, like many others blasts in the past, hit home to quite a few people here. Like many I am connected with Boston and the area. .. having lived there as student.. watching Marathon back when women were not officially allowed to take part in this event.. .My one son (and DIL) lived there not too long ago(MIT is just across the river) and other son (and DIL) lives there now..DIL is a doctor in the hospital, just a few blocks away from Copley square...Personally know quite a few who took part in the marathon.

Good news is that everyone we know is safe... yet heart goes out to victims. As the event is family oriented, (April 15 is holiday in Boston, and families come to watch their family and friends) this part becomes very hard at human level. The eight year old who died, just gave a hug to his father who finished the Marathon.. the boys mother and little sister were seriously hurt.

One thing which amazed me was heroism of spectators, medical staff (many were there in the nearby medical tent), BPD and the victims themselves.

***

The causality figure would have been much higher, if the excellent medical facilities and trauma center (about 10 hospitals near by swung into action) were not ready. Few points...

- In the critical first hour (when emergency aid makes all the difference between life and death) about 60+ people were admitted in the hospitals..

- 40+ OR (for surgeries) were ready within that first hour... and people were rushed into OR.

- Though hospitals had extra staff (due to marathon) but things moved very efficiently and quickly.. Surgeons (and Many medical students) just rushed in (when they heard) to help...Trauma surgeons put many hours.
- Some experts flew in from outside to help... (Though air traffic etc were delayed etc but these doctors did not experience red tape etc)
- Armed Police etc were quite professional .. worked well with doctors in hospitals.

Though many were (and still are) in critical condition, the death toll has been quite low.

[Ananya]

Duplicate post