Re: India-US Strategic News and Discussion

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 19 Apr 2013 06:14

CRamS wrote:Guys, let me ask you this. Assuming one or both of them are TSP scum, and they had ISI input into this, I would think that being a professional terrorist org, ISI would know the existence of CC TVs and lost of people shooting video on their smart phones, so wouldn't have worn some kind of a mask or something? One of them has a goatie, I am sure he has taken it off by now.

Definietly not ISI. This ham fisted half baked attack is by someone over whom the ISI has no control. How did the Paki angle crop up. I thought this was a disgruntled right winger. The baseball cap photo looks like a young full blooded American male.

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 19 Apr 2013 06:14

Paul wrote:Suspect #1 in blackbaseball cap does not look caucasian. suspect #2 might look like an ABCD type.

Erin Burnett on CNN is calling them white????? Networks seem to be circumspect in speculating on the ethnicity of the suspects.

The guy in the white cap could very well be "white". I've known plenty of Americans of Greek, Southern Italian, Albanian ethnicity who look like that and would be considered Caucasian. The other fellow could be darker, its hard to tell.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 19 Apr 2013 06:24

both claims, counter claims so fare have taken 100% assumptions (which is fine, as they are perspective and within guidelines). so, taking the balance off, and standing on one edge only makes the other side sharper.

i think people should be free to express what they like to say, within the scope of guidelines.. if the guidelines are abstract, then it is time to specialize them to specific areas, especially what should not be... of course, a sticky thread dedicated to evolve this also gives more guarantees to all posters, to ensure, they are within the scope of those guidelines, and no examples have been set that they can't follow, or examples have been set to follow.

/OT

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 19 Apr 2013 06:30

Rudradev wrote:
Paul wrote:Suspect #1 in blackbaseball cap does not look caucasian. suspect #2 might look like an ABCD type.

Erin Burnett on CNN is calling them white????? Networks seem to be circumspect in speculating on the ethnicity of the suspects.

The guy in the white cap could very well be "white". I've known plenty of Americans of Greek, Southern Italian, Albanian ethnicity who look like that and would be considered Caucasian. The other fellow could be darker, its hard to tell.

Can he be a Pasthuun ?
Some of them are known to be more TFTA than the TFTA Pakjabis..

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 19 Apr 2013 06:33

SaiK wrote:both claims, counter claims so fare have taken 100% assumptions (which is fine, as they are perspective and within guidelines). so, taking the balance off, and standing on one edge only makes the other side sharper.

i think people should be free to express what they like to say, within the scope of guidelines.. if the guidelines are abstract, then it is time to specialize them to specific areas, especially what should not be... of course, a sticky thread dedicated to evolve this also gives more guarantees to all posters, to ensure, they are within the scope of those guidelines, and no examples have been set that they can't follow, or examples have been set to follow.

/OT

SaiK - on Twitter one of Akbaruddin Owaisis' follwers says he wishes for a bomb to be placed under Obama's backside. I doubt if a law abiding American citizen could get away by saying that. But a law abiding American citizen could call Indian Muslims as traitors and not face any consequences. On the other hand a photo of two men that turned out to be false leads in the Boston bombings is expunged from the forum by admin action and not left to chance.

Clearly the compulsions to do things are different depending on nationality and geography. I am not accusing anyone. I am just pointing out that I find the behavior interesting. Behaviour could be dictated by pressures.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 19 Apr 2013 06:33

shiv wrote:I thought this was a disgruntled right winger. The baseball cap photo looks like a young full blooded American male.

In other words "crazy american" harking back to the stupid Brit Piers Morgan of Choo***ah NN, eh?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 19 Apr 2013 06:36

Lilo wrote:
Can he be a Pasthuun ?
Some of them are known to be more TFTA than the TFTA Pakjabis..

That is a white American male. May not necessarily be from north European ancestry. There is a remote possibility of American Mujahidden and American Taliban in action. But could be a right winger protesting taxes or something

sadhana · Post by **sadhana** » 19 Apr 2013 06:36

This is from before the photos and videos were released

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-575 ... nce-video/

CBS News correspondent Bob Orr reports investigators are hoping cell phone records may produce an identification of the mystery man in the surveillance pictures. Investigators are scouring cell phone logs to find out who made calls from the site of the second explosion around the time the bombs went off.

Meanwhile, Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano said Thursday the FBI wants to speak with individuals seen in at least one video from marathon, but she says she isn't calling them suspects. Without providing details of the men's appearance or what the video shows, Napolitano told the House Homeland Security Committee on Thursday that "there is some video that raised the question" of individuals the FBI would like to interview. She said the investigation is continuing "apace."

Investigators are focusing on the man spotted near the scene of the second explosion, Orr reports. Sources say a nearby surveillance camera captured images of the man carrying a backpack and talking on a cell phone. While the FBI has not identified him, he's described as a young white man as tall as 6 foot 2.

Sources who have seen the tape say he appeared to be alone and was wearing a black jacket, gray hoodie and white baseball cap backwards on his head, Orr reports. Sources told Orr the man appeared to place his backpack on the ground, then after the first explosion, he fled. Moments later the second blast occurred near the spot where he had been standing.

Investigators torn over public release of Boston evidence

The footage hasn't been made public but former FBI assistant director John Miller said on "CBS This Morning" that the public can expect to see more photos to be released of the possible suspect seen with a backpack.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 19 Apr 2013 06:37

Anything is possible. Why jump to conclusions? Why not hold our horses?

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 19 Apr 2013 06:39

shiv wrote: In other words, if you were in India and this was an Indian event, you would not be ruling out saffron terror.

That is a perfectly valid viewpoint and demands that no rash moves be made against the innocent. That seems to be as true for America as in India.

DocJi, first, let me re-state what I meant by not taking claim. What I said was there is no need to take claim. In the India TSP case or the US & Israel Vs Iran case, when TSP commits an act of terror against India, or US/Israel and Iran terrorize each other, the footprints are obvious, there is absolutely no need for TSP to claim, they know India got the message, and its champagne time at GHQ.

Now, lets assume for the sake of argument that those 2 suspects are never caught. There is no obvious footprint indicating US nemesis Al Queda undertook this. In other words, remnants of the "mighty" Al Queda could at best be laughing their ass off, and US, other than speculating can't point to Al Queda and dispatch their F-16s

Finally, to your other point above. I respectfully disagree with your drawing an equivalence between US and India on domestic majority community terror, white Christians in the case of US, and Hindus in the case of India. In US, even if the suspects were mom & pop, apple-pie eating pious white Christian boys, you would never, ever hear of the phrase Christian terror. There will be no political gains or point scoring through the revelation that a white Christian was the terrorist. And most importantly, whites by and large will completely ignore this as a someone isolated among them, no pathology, no piskology, no scape goating, no Peter Bergen type hot air anal-yses, none of that

In India, in contrast, while I don't deny that a Hindu might commit an act of terror, but the phrase Hindu terror or Saffron terror is purely political. Its a way of minimizing the impact of Islamic terror which is what plagues India. Its also a cowardly, self-loathing manifestation in not being able to take on TSP, and by saying "we" are guilty, it sort of absolves TSP and offers a self-satisfying excuse for inaction. And one major party, the Congress and its allies who depend heavily on Muslim vote bank deliberately spawn this angle out of political opportunism.

Bottom line, I don't like either extremes, no introspection in US that one its own white boys can be a terrorist, while at the other extreme in India, drawing a an utterly self-defeating false equivalence between the scourge of TSP sponsored Islamic terror, and the few acts of Hindu or Saffron terror.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 19 Apr 2013 06:45

matrimc wrote:Anything is possible. Why jump to conclusions? Why not hold our horses?

Yes. That is why I was wondering where the connection with Pakistan and//or ISI came from. This thread survives on this forum only on the hope that Pakistan will be implicated. It will die after Pakistan is proven innocent and the terrorist found to be a home grown American disgruntled with US actions or something.

Terrorism in the US by American residents is US homegrown terror. Pakistan is innocent or will be declared innocent. the consequences of the US blaming Pakistan are too serious for the US to contemplate and everything will be smoothed over. US military power is worthless when it comes to taking action against Pakistan.To that extent this thread is going nowhere - now that we know that forum members and relatives and friends are safe

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 19 Apr 2013 06:51

" A lot of it is due to the deliberate policy of GoI/INC to tamp down the terrorism angle WRT India. There is so much fear that the vote bank might get 'alienated'."

The GOI/INC's vote bank policies, as well as the pronouncements of some of the so called left secularists, must certainly be emphasised as a reason

However, what is to stop an American individual, like Juan Cole, from using his noggin, and merely empathising with Indian victims of terror. He can even state that in India, there is Islamic terror, ultra left terror(Naxal) and the odd case of Hindu terror, whether of riots or of suspected bomb blasts. And carry on with his empathy from there, if he wants to be seen as 'objective'.

But he won't even do that! This is what is mind boggling. At least *include* India and its cities in your list of terror attacks, and sympathise with the victims. It's either horrendous ignorance or horrendous dishonourability. Pretty awful, either way. There's no excuse for it.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 19 Apr 2013 07:02

CRamS wrote:
Finally, to your other point above. I respectfully disagree with your drawing an equivalence between US and India on domestic majority community terror, white Christians in the case of US, and Hindus in the case of India. In US, even if the suspects were mom & pop, apple-pie eating pious white Christian boys, you would never, ever hear of the phrase Christian terror. There will be no political gains or point scoring through the revelation that a white Christian was the terrorist. And most importantly, whites by and large will completely ignore this as a someone isolated among them, no pathology, no piskology, no scape goating, no Peter Bergen type hot air anal-yses, none of that

.

CRamS. In India you will not hear people saying Muslim terror. In the US you hear people speaking of Muslim terror but not Christian terror. In Islamic countries you will hear of Christian, Jeweish and Hindu terror

In other words Muslims and Christians have insulated their own religions from accusations of being origins of terror. On the other hand you find Christian nations and Islamic nation speak of Hindu terror. Hindus who speak of Hindu terror have bought into the argument that it is OK to speak of Hindu terror, but not of Muslim terror or Christian terror.

As a people Indians are mentally colonized. In my view, release from this mental colonization is not merely to stop self flagellation and blame Pakis. But the US also needs to be blamed, The US is killing Muslims left right and center. We may be happy to see those Muslims get blown up but it is still necessary to call out the US as a murderous genocidal nation whose example is not a good one to follow. It is when the US is held up as an example to follow for India that I disagree. The US, as you have pointed out is a perfectly bigoted and murderous nation. Of course many Indians may have personally benefited from the US. But many have personally benefited form the gulf countries too.

If you look at the way Islamic nations have had their backsides ripped open by the US. Islamic action against the US is good and we must equip ourselves with chai biskoot when Christians and Muslims slug it out. We need not support one against the other since neither supports us. Why support the US? The US deserves every bit of a kicking it gets from the Muslims that the Christian US hates.

Even we on BRF are biased. We celebrate US actions against Muslim natiosns and mourn when the US takes a hit. Why single out and blame Indian policymakers? That MMS cartoon in Hindi applies to all of us as Indians.

sadhana · Post by **sadhana** » 19 Apr 2013 07:05

Will point out that the main purpose of Pakistan in setting up 'Indian Mujahiddeen' and Headley buying red thread for Mumbai attackers (for example) was to make India==Pakistan in America's eyes wrt terrorism. Any responsible Indian govt would do its best to cut down the Pak narrative of India==Pakistan in terrorism.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 19 Apr 2013 07:15

Rudradev wrote:
Paul wrote:Suspect #1 in blackbaseball cap does not look caucasian. suspect #2 might look like an ABCD type.
Erin Burnett on CNN is calling them white????? Networks seem to be circumspect in speculating on the ethnicity of the suspects.

The guy in the white cap could very well be "white". I've known plenty of Americans of Greek, Southern Italian, Albanian ethnicity who look like that and would be considered Caucasian. The other fellow could be darker, its hard to tell.

The fair guy might be second generation Poaqlitter from UK or Canada .

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 19 Apr 2013 07:18

Why will a bomber be so stupid as to put a target himself by wearing a white baseball cap???

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 19 Apr 2013 07:20

sadhana wrote:Will point out that the main purpose of Pakistan in setting up 'Indian Mujahiddeen' and Headley buying red thread for Mumbai attackers (for example) was to make India==Pakistan in America's eyes wrt terrorism. Any responsible Indian govt would do its best to cut down the Pak narrative of India==Pakistan in terrorism.

This is the time for us to cite an "American Mujahideen"/"American Taliban" who are out to hit America from within

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 19 Apr 2013 07:20

CRamS wrote:Guys, let me ask you this. Assuming one or both of them are TSP scum, and they had ISI input into this, I would think that being a professional terrorist org, ISI would know the existence of CC TVs and lost of people shooting video on their smart phones, so wouldn't have worn some kind of a mask or something? One of them has a goatie, I am sure he has taken it off by now.

CRS, it has not bothered too much in recent years to hide its involvement in terror. They have even given up their 'plausible deniability' tactic. As the saying goes, why cover the head alone after you have been completely drenched ? In fact, when it comes to operations against India, it wants to be seen as involved because it is the macho thing.

Be that as it may, it knows that the agents have no escape option but they don't care. All that they are interested is in causing damage and the organization would cover its track, if need be, through various means.

anmol · Post by **anmol** » 19 Apr 2013 07:25

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 19 Apr 2013 07:28

shiv wrote:Clearly the compulsions to do things are different depending on nationality and geography. I am not accusing anyone. I am just pointing out that I find the behavior interesting. Behaviour could be dictated by pressures.

Simple onlee Shiv, in America we the minority....

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 19 Apr 2013 07:31

Turns out that the guy in the blue blazer that was posted earlier is innocent. Apparently, the dude went to the police station to clarify matters as soon as he started seeing his picture on TV. He is indeed of North African descent as many speculated, but the police are satisfied that he's innocent and just happened to be there to watch the race.
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/teen-bost ... XCobWJQAak

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 19 Apr 2013 07:31

Haa haa..

In India one can say Hindu/Saffron Terror but scared to call out Muslim and Christian terror. Secularism is the public toilet that India need to get rid off.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 19 Apr 2013 07:35

Theo_Fidel wrote:
shiv wrote:Clearly the compulsions to do things are different depending on nationality and geography. I am not accusing anyone. I am just pointing out that I find the behavior interesting. Behaviour could be dictated by pressures.
Simple onlee Shiv, in America we the minority....

In India, whether it works or not, it is an effort to shield the minorities that Indians do not openly speak of Muslim terror and go so far as to accept that there might be Hindu terror.

anmol · Post by **anmol** » 19 Apr 2013 07:48

deleted

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 19 Apr 2013 07:50

Maybe people should stop guessing and wait for official results. As it turns out, some speculation is going on in some forums that one of the guys might be a chap called Sunil Tripathi, who's an undergrad at Brown university been missing since sometime in mid March.

sadhana · Post by **sadhana** » 19 Apr 2013 07:52

Via twitter

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-04-1 ... ckers.html

Minutes before the bombs blew up in Boston, Jeff Bauman looked into the eyes of the man who tried to kill him.

Just before 3 p.m. on April 15, Bauman was waiting among the crowd for his girlfriend to cross the finish line at the Boston Marathon. A man wearing a cap, sunglasses and a black jacket over a hooded sweatshirt looked at Jeff, 27, and dropped a bag at his feet, his brother, Chris Bauman, said in an interview.

Two and a half minutes later, the bag exploded, tearing Jeff’s legs apart. A picture of him in a wheelchair, bloodied and ashen, was broadcast around the world as he was rushed to Boston Medical Center. He lost both legs below the knee.

“He woke up under so much drugs, asked for a paper and pen and wrote, ‘bag, saw the guy, looked right at me,’” Chris Bauman said yesterday in an interview.

While still in intensive care, Jeff Bauman gave the FBI a description of the man he saw, his brother said. Bauman’s information helped investigators narrow down whom to look for in hours of video of the attack, he said.

anmol · Post by **anmol** » 19 Apr 2013 07:52

ArmenT wrote:Maybe people should stop guessing and wait for official results. As it turns out, some speculation is going on in some forums that one of the guys might be a chap called Sunil Tripathi, who's an undergrad at Brown university been missing since sometime in mid March.

I agree completely, but posted here because he is Indian.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 19 Apr 2013 08:11

Unlikely to be this Sunil Tripathi guy. There are some important differences, although the similarity is striking. Mr. Baseball cap has a mop of curly hair, Tripathi has straight hair. The indicated nose similarities are unconving. I know a young man living right here in India who looks like both Tripathi and Mr Baseball cap.

Rangudu · Post by **Rangudu** » 19 Apr 2013 08:15

Jrjrao posted the most crucial report concerning this attack. It seems as though everyone skipped past it amidst the American/Indian brouhaha.

News reports are saying that the FBI has possible names to go along with the faces (albeit blurred) of the bomber suspects. That would jive with Unkil sending TSP a list of names to 'check' (as if TSP will do anything).

At this point I'd be surprised if these dudes turn out to be anything other than TSPians (whether they have a green passport or not)

anmol · Post by **anmol** » 19 Apr 2013 08:15

US seeks information from Pakistan on list of names

By Sib Kaifee

Published April 18, 2013

FoxNews.com

Pakistan's intelligence agency has received two lists of names from U.S. officials seeking information believed to be related to the Boston Marathon bombings, sources in Pakistan have told Fox News.

The names on the lists have not been disclosed but include both Pakistani citizens and dual U.S.-Pakistani nationals, the sources told Fox News. U.S. officials want to know if any of those named had links to militant or religious extremist groups in Pakistan, the sources said.

Pakistani intelligence is also expected to check the names of those who recently traveled to or from Pakistan, along with information on their relatives, friends, and places they may have visited.

"The Americans have shared lists with us, comprising names of some suspects - mostly dual nationals. Now we are probing their links in Pakistan with any group, their recent visits to Pakistan and places they travelled to during their stay here," said a Pakistani intelligence official who requested anonymity.

The official declined to share further information, citing the ongoing investigation.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 19 Apr 2013 08:20

MIT gunshots CNN says

Rangudu · Post by **Rangudu** » 19 Apr 2013 08:21

Twitter Breaking News:

Gunshots reported in MIT campus. Area cordoned off.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 19 Apr 2013 08:31

If they downhill ski or GUBO, these are Pakis

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 19 Apr 2013 08:50

Fox News reporting FBI in touch with TSP on Boston Bombing...

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 19 Apr 2013 08:58

Rangudu wrote: Twitter Breaking News:

Gunshots reported in MIT campus. Area cordoned off.

MIT !
Are you sure? These guys are already graduates of the Daura-e-khaas from the Lashkar Institute of Technology hain ji?
These are Pakis, I don't think they'll get to MIT

Gunshots might be an unrelated event.

jash_p · Post by **jash_p** » 19 Apr 2013 09:00

x posting

Looks Paki connection!!!!!!

Guys I just heard on fox news that FBI asking Paki gov. for help regarding suspect in Boston Bombing.

anmol · Post by **anmol** » 19 Apr 2013 09:00

deleted

jash_p · Post by **jash_p** » 19 Apr 2013 09:03

duplicate deleted

jash_p · Post by **jash_p** » 19 Apr 2013 09:04

Gunshots reported in MIT campus. Area cordoned off.
[quote][/quote]

it is connected with robbery case

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 19 Apr 2013 09:07

anmol wrote:From forums that are connecting Sunil to the white cap guy:-
Following is I think last picture of Sunil, leaving with a man:-

You can clearly see a tattoo on the face that reads "Queen of Sheba"