Boston Bombing Followup Thread

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 21 Apr 2013 21:57

Wondering if this event raises any concerns of the 70s.

People may remember a movie called Telefon (1977) where in Russian sleeper agents are played a trigger poem on phone and when they hear it they do the soosai like events.

The poem goes something like:
The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep

Full movie is available on U-tube (strongly recommended).

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 21 Apr 2013 22:07

Last few days especially on faux news but others too to some extent, we kept hearing this drivel "Why do they hate us (americans) so much ?" Every time I hear this I want to roll in laughter, but it is getting sickening to hear this cliche over and over again. I think what they want to say is "Why do they hate us <fill in majority religion> ?" but they cannot, to sound PC. But statements like these in the media is what lead to vigilante violence against innocent people on the streets of the "other kind".

Anindya · Post by **Anindya** » 21 Apr 2013 22:07

Boston bombers: FBI hunting 12-strong terrorist “sleeper cell” linked to brothers Tamerlan and Dzhokhar Tsarnaev

member_26011 · Post by **member_26011** » 21 Apr 2013 22:56

harbans wrote:Frankly i think the FBI and US law enforcement agencies were using social media to get to the suspects. This was confirmed with reports that the Police hours after having splashed the 2 suspect photographs came to know their identity only after killing the elder brother. From his ID after he rolled over dead.

Apparently, once the photos were splashed people from Dzokhar Tsarnaev's school and college called in to report. There was a period, if I recall correctly, when there were no clear shots of them. Did clear photos show up after Tamerlan Tsarnaev was killed? The vigilantism of crowd-sourcing was also quite apparent, with at least three sets of mis-identifications widely prevalent.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 21 Apr 2013 23:02

Did clear photos show up after Tamerlan Tsarnaev was killed? The vigilantism of crowd-sourcing was also quite apparent, with at least three sets of mis-identifications widely prevalent.

Chand Ji, firstly welcome to BRF!

Bolded part: That is exactly what i was talking about, that there is a possibility that the law enforcement was using vigilantism and social media as an aid. I don't see apart from curbing liberties how social media vigilantism can be curtailed. The photographs of the 2 were clear, and i was surprised to read the cops learnt of the names after the elders body was searched!

member_26011 · Post by **member_26011** » 21 Apr 2013 23:23

I don't see apart from curbing liberties how social media vigilantism can be curtailed. The photographs of the 2 were clear, and i was surprised to read the cops learnt of the names after the elders body was searched!

Many thanks.

Yeah, that's a surprise alright, but its hard to tell when they actually knew in contrast to the moment they let everyone in on what they knew. From informal word, it appears that several people called early on to say they knew the guy (suspect #2). Possibly, the time it took to pass all this around and percolate accounts for it but that would be a surprise too.

The agencies were of course using the people in my view. When they put out a picture and say (paraphrasing), "someone somewhere knows these persons of interest...", then the moment I get past the duh factor, it seems clear to me that a message was being sent to the brothers too. I'd say the agencies got the "pulse" of the people right; the cheers lining up streets of Watertown for the hundreds of troopers amassed, for taking a 19-year old terrorist in an ambulance, was indicative.

There's more; the whole Miranda rights thing, an all too basic step they are in a hurry to bypass. The fact that at least Dzokhar was well integrated and has people coming forward to vouch for him, the fact that Tamerlan is a known person, they didn't give him citizenship. All of that gives me a pause, perhaps just CT, nevertheless.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 21 Apr 2013 23:30

Very little news on Tamerlane's wife, how they met, how much she knew about him etc. Her father was a doc, so reasonably well to do, upper middle class for sure. So he was married to her at least for 2-3 years, enough time to become a citizen. If he was denied, on what grounds. Was that a trigger point too ? So many questions, this is not a open and shut case like Kasab et al.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Apr 2013 23:39

SaiK wrote:well, if they are going to hang him soon (if he survives the hospital, and answers questions), and no miranda, then india paints itself bad on supporting terrorism, by enabling kasab to have lived so long. why can't we learn? we have copied many constitutional setup from british. we need to copy certain things from massans too. am i treated bad for saying this?

.... then, why not take quick decisions [at least by month if not hours or days]?

instead of india bashing, we need india correcting threads.

I think Indian response of minimal resources is the best way for a 'war of thousand cuts.' Massa way of maximum response might look satisfying the ego/political reasons, but is sure path of economic ruination (look at the amount of resources brough to bear in times of sequestration) and deep alienation(most likely the elder guy became even more disaffected once the surveillance started). In the end its a path function (complex variables terminology) to reach the goal and not an only way to reach the end goal.

Let India be India and they will emerge from this Wahabandi episode of Islam.

Also future jihadis and ISI will study the Boston bombings to figure out the gaps and weaknesses. The whole case got solved due to the second guy being careless in his demeanor :white cap, not covering his face etc.
ISI must be working extra hard to defeat crowd sources cameras all over the world by using masks or face changing disguises.

So what worked here wont work next time. Eternal vigilance and not messing with bad eggs for they could become rotten is the path forward.

Also what country allows purchase of 50 lbs of gunpowder without any regulations? Selling semi-automatic rifles without background checks is bad enough.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 21 Apr 2013 23:42

The agencies were of course using the people in my view. When they put out a picture and say (paraphrasing), "someone somewhere knows these persons of interest..."

It will remain a matter of some controversy how much were the agencies themselves responsible for the social media vigilantism. Between putting up the pics and recovering the elder brothers' body, the vigilants had a free run on naming suspects, without so much as a course correction of any sort from any agency. That part is certainly not clear.

Clearly shows the cops Identified the bombers hours after releasing the photo's and after the body of the elder was recovered post shoot out. I found that strange..

saip · Post by **saip** » 21 Apr 2013 23:49

Bade wrote:Very little news on Tamerlane's wife, how they met, how much she knew about him etc. Her father was a doc, so reasonably well to do, upper middle class for sure. So he was married to her at least for 2-3 years, enough time to become a citizen. If he was denied, on what grounds. Was that a trigger point too ? So many questions, this is not a open and shut case like Kasab et al.

There were charges against him for domestic violence (not with the woman he married). That might be a reason for his delay in getting citizenship

saip · Post by **saip** » 21 Apr 2013 23:51

Satya_anveshi wrote:Wondering if this event raises any concerns of the 70s.

People may remember a movie called Telefon (1977) where in Russian sleeper agents are played a trigger poem on phone and when they hear it they do the soosai like events.

The poem goes something like:
The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep

Full movie is available on U-tube (strongly recommended).

This is the poem (Robert Frost?) they found on Nehru's desk when he died.

member_26011 · Post by **member_26011** » 21 Apr 2013 23:53

In support of he was a known entity (sorry if already posted):
Boston bombings: FBI is defended on vetting of Tamerlan Tsarnaev

WASHINGTON – The FBI did “a very thorough job” vetting Boston Marathon bombing suspect Tamerlan Tsarnaev after the Russian intelligence service flagged him in early 2011 as a possible Islamic radical, the Republican chairman of the House intelligence committee said Sunday.
“I don’t think they missed anything,” said Rep. Mike Rogers (R-Mich.), a former FBI agent who has not hesitated to criticize the bureau and Obama administration on counter-terrorism issues.

Rogers, interviewed on NBC’s “Meet the Press,” said the FBI examined Tsarnaev’s “digital footprints,” conducted all the database checks at its disposal and interviewed the suspect. Rogers said that no evidence emerged to justify further scrutiny. But Rogers said the foreign intelligence service — other officials have identified it as Russian — did not answer the FBI’s request for more information.

“You can’t ask them to do something with nothing,” Rogers said.

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 22 Apr 2013 00:09

SaiK wrote:well, if they are going to hang him soon (if he survives the hospital, and answers questions), and no miranda, then india paints itself bad on supporting terrorism, by enabling kasab to have lived so long. why can't we learn? we have copied many constitutional setup from british. we need to copy certain things from massans too. am i treated bad for saying this?

Saiji,
There is no death penalty in that state ( I do not think there is hanging anywhere in the US, but I may be wrong). He may still get the death penalty if he is some how tried in a federal court. Now, regarding Miranda, the law was created to warn arrested persons against making self-incriminating statements, such as a spontaneous confession. In my humble opinion, in this case Miranda is not even warranted. They may have enough evidence already, and do not need anymore. By not mirandizing, the court will not allow any statements made by Dzhokhar Tsarnae to be used by the prosecuting side. Fat good that will do him, his actions have killed an 8 year old and a police officer, the evidence will convict him in any jury trial.
You can not compare this situation with India. In India we do not have jury trials. The courts do not allow any confessions at all, as it is feared that it is obtained under duress. The legal system in India and the US have come from Great Britain, but they are not identical. On the contrary they have evolved quite differently. Lastly, regarding Kasab's living a long life, there are death row inmates in California that have lived for decades and will most probably die of natural causes. They cost billions of dollars to the government.
Gautam

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Apr 2013 00:26

So all those cooker devices were proofed in the last visit? Seems to be quite confident of them.

pentaiah · Post by **pentaiah** » 22 Apr 2013 01:05

Satya_anveshi wrote:Wondering if this event raises any concerns of the 70s.

People may remember a movie called Telefon (1977) where in Russian sleeper agents are played a trigger poem on phone and when they hear it they do the soosai like events.

The poem goes something like:
The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep

Full movie is available on U-tube (strongly recommended).

yes Starring Charles Bronson.

I thought of posting this but I thought the Bradmins would come on me like a ton of bricks
Great movie
the poem is by Robert Frost and favorite of JFK ( he used keep the Miles to go before I sleep " on his desk Marlyn Man_row had nothing do with that quote though

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 22 Apr 2013 01:09

g.sarkar wrote:
SaiK wrote:well, if they are going to hang him soon (if he survives the hospital, and answers questions), and no miranda, then india paints itself bad on supporting terrorism, by enabling kasab to have lived so long. why can't we learn? we have copied many constitutional setup from british. we need to copy certain things from massans too. am i treated bad for saying this?
Saiji,
There is no death penalty in that state ( I do not think there is hanging anywhere in the US, but I may be wrong). He may still get the death penalty if he is some how tried in a federal court. Now, regarding Miranda, the law was created to warn arrested persons against making self-incriminating statements, such as a spontaneous confession. In my humble opinion, in this case Miranda is not even warranted. They may have enough evidence already, and do not need anymore. By not mirandizing, the court will not allow any statements made by Dzhokhar Tsarnae to be used by the prosecuting side. Fat good that will do him, his actions have killed an 8 year old and a police officer, the evidence will convict him in any jury trial.
You can not compare this situation with India. In India we do not have jury trials. The courts do not allow any confessions at all, as it is feared that it is obtained under duress. The legal system in India and the US have come from Great Britain, but they are not identical. On the contrary they have evolved quite differently. Lastly, regarding Kasab's living a long life, there are death row inmates in California that have lived for decades and will most probably die of natural causes. They cost billions of dollars to the government.
Gautam

Even though this particular state has no death penalty, if the creep's case is tried as a federal offence he could very well wind up with the death penalty.

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 22 Apr 2013 01:41

Singha wrote:he will get his miranda 48 hrs after he is able to talk..atleast thats what the law says apparently.
some kind of arrangement for public defender lawyer , education him on right to remain silent will make one expects.

Technically, he has to be in charge of his senses, because the last part of reading a person his Miranda rights includes asking, "do you understand your rights?" and the suspect has to indicate that he has understood them. He can also be presented his Miranda rights as a document that he has to sign (e.g. if he can't physically talk) and that is valid too. After this, if the suspect chooses to waive his rights and start answering questions (some do, in the hope to get a lesser sentence), then these statements may be presented in court as evidence.

Reading someone his Miranda rights has to happen before interrogation. It does NOT have to happen at time of arrest. Also, they don't really need to interrogate a person always to bring up a charge. In this case, the other collected evidence against the brothers is probably enough, so they may not need to read the guy his rights anyway.

Incidentally, if the guy talks and incriminates someone else before being read his rights, the evidence can be used against the other person. Miranda rights only protect against self-incrimination.

pentaiah · Post by **pentaiah** » 22 Apr 2013 01:43

Philip Ji wrote: Russians have foir ages lumped the Chechens into being "gangsters',responsible for many criminal activities.I do not know how many remember the days before Chechenya exploded.Ex Russian Air Force Maj-Gen. Djokar Dudayev was in the saddle.The BBC started several features on Chechenya and their people,"dressed to kill",etc.Suddenly,the Chechen war was with us,the BBC had been "ahead of the curve" or did it know beforehand.After a very bloody war,the Russians "hit" Djokar with a PGM that homed onto his cell phone.The Chechens then became mercenaries for pan-Islamist wars anywhere in the Islamic world,including J&K.Several murderous attacks in Russia took place.This has suited the western establishment who still live with a Cold War attitude.
Well knowing the mental attitude of Chechens,perhaps the most extreme from the Islamic world after the Pakis,why has the west consistently allowed them to enter as refugees?!

watch Eastern Promises movie

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 22 Apr 2013 01:51

g.sarkar wrote: In India we do not have jury trials. The courts do not allow any confessions at all, as it is feared that it is obtained under duress.

sarkarji, thanks for clarifying this. but in lieu of jury trials, a fast court system could also help. we are not only losing evidence, and at the same time losing the momentum of punishment as well. as time passes, even the best evidences becomes causeless as tolerance value increases threshold, and freedom and liberty kicks in (human nature again)... forget and forgive, and we succumb to prolonged injustice, pain and freedom mockery.

ramana, i understand we need to be different, but i was looking at avenues for correction. even the verma commission post dilli rape, refers to lot of massan legal system than indian setup.

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 22 Apr 2013 01:51

Remember the video of the 78 year old marathon runner getting knocked over by the blast near the finish line? Seems he's safe:
Resilient marathon runner, 78, home after week in media storm

Fun thing is the media frenzy to get exclusive articles:

But then, this week has been one big media blur for the Iffrigs, who, after the race, ended up spending a lot of time in their hotel room. Iffrig walked back to the hotel with only a scraped knee.

Their cellphone filled up with messages, as did their home phone. The hotel suggested they simply turn off their room phone at night so they could get some sleep.

Still, Iffrig isn’t complaining about his moment as a media star.

“It wasn’t too bad. A few took us to out dinner,” he says.
..
...

There was that one incident in which a producer kept begging Iffrig to do a live interview at a street corner where all the TV vans were parked.

“She told me she’d pay for my cab,” says Iffrig. Oh, OK. So he got a cab to the corner in question.

The producer wasn’t there when he arrived, he had to pay the $10 fare himself, and then had to go from van to van to find the right crew.

Iffrig laughs when remembering how cutthroat some of the TV producers were in trying to get exclusives, asking him not to talk to anybody else.

Sounds about normal behavior for news agencies.

Anyway, the gent and his wife are back home and it is back to the old routine for him.

Now it’s back to normal life for him, although outside his home there are the American flags and “Welcome Home” balloons left by neighbors.

All those messages on his home phone? Erased.

Try calling again, media types, if you’re still interested and haven’t gone on to the next trending story.

Time for everyday life to resume.

“I still mow my own lawn,” says Iffrig, “I’ve got a lot of yard work to do.”

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 22 Apr 2013 02:30

abhishek_sharma wrote:Rafia Zakaria: The Tragedies of Other Places

Is Rafia, Fareed's fourth cousin?

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 22 Apr 2013 02:53

How inconvenient! That too after the FBI knew all about him as far back as 2011.Did they plan to use him like Headley/Gilani? Why did one of the brothers go back to Chechenya? Was he sent there by the "establishment" ?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/ap ... v-injuries

Boston Marathon suspect may never be able to be questioned, mayor says
Surviving suspect's injuries prevent him from communicating as FBI faces scrutiny over contact with Tamerlan Tsarnaev in 2011

May never be able to be questioned, mayor says

Surviving suspect's injuries prevent him from communicating as FBI faces scrutiny over contact with Tamerlan Tsarnaev in 2011

Karen McVeigh and Matt Williams in New York, Adam Gabbatt in Boston and Miriam Elder in Makhachkala, Dagestan
guardian.co.uk, Sunday 21 April 2013

Dzhokhar Tsarnaev
The medical condition of Dzhokhar Tsarnaev meant it was unlikely that the FBI would get any early leads from him, officials said. Photograph: Corbis

The surviving Boston bombings suspect is so seriously injured that investigators may struggle to interrogate him effectively, it was suggested on Sunday, as further questions were raised about the FBI's previous contacts with his dead brother.

Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, the 19-year-old who is accused of planting the pressure-cooker bombs with his older brother Tamerlan that killed three and injured more than 180 at the Boston Marathon last Monday, was being treated in hospital for a reported bullet wound to the throat and was unable to speak. He was captured on Friday night, a day after a violent gun battle with police that left his brother, Tamerlan Tsarnaev, 26, dead.

Boston mayor Tom Menino told This Week on ABC that he was so seriously ill that agents might never be able to interrogate him. "We don't know if we'll ever be able to question the individual," he said.

Dan Coats, a Republican member of the Senate intelligence committee, told ABC: "The information that we have is that there was a shot to the throat. It doesn't mean he can't communicate, but right now I think he's in a condition where we can't get any information from him at all."
FBI 'dropped the ball'

As the FBI waited to question Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, it faced intense scrutiny over its prior contacts with his brother. One congressman accused the FBI of having "dropped the ball".

The bureau admitted that it interviewed Tamerlan Tsarnaev in early 2011 at the request of a foreign government, believed to be Russia, which had concerns he was linked to Islamist terrorism. The FBI said it concluded he was not involved in terrorism, and was left scrambling at the weekend to find out more about a six-month visit he made to Russia in 2012.

There was also concern on Sunday about how federal investigators would deal with Dzhokhar Tsarnaev if he recovers sufficiently to be questioned and tried. He was not read his Miranda rights, the process under US law that would have informed him of his right to remain silent, when he was detained. Ordinarily that would mean that any information he provided before being read his rights would be inadmissible at trial, but Carmen Ortiz, US attorney for Massachusetts, cited a public safety exception that is intended to prevent the public from immediate danger.

An expansion of the public safety exception to Miranda rights by the Obama administration is the subject of controversy, and civil rights advocates expressed concern about how it would be applied. The American Civil Liberties Union said the exemptions should not be "open-ended" and that America "must not waiver from our tried and true justice system".

That was not a concern for some political figures, who claim there is enough evidence against Tsarnaev to outweigh the advantages of reading him his Miranda rights. Deval Patrick, the governor of Massachusetts, described "chilling" surveillance video from the Boston Marathon bombings which showed the younger brother at the heart of the attacks. The film shows him dropping his backpack and calmly waking away before the bomb exploded, Patrick said.

"It does seem to be pretty clear that this suspect took the backpack off, put it down, did not react when the first explosion went off and then moved away from the backpack in time for the second explosion," Patrick said on NBC. "It's pretty clear about his involvement and pretty chilling, frankly." Patrick conceded that he had not viewed all the tapes but had been briefed about them by law enforcement officials.
Tamerlan and Dzhokhar Tsarnaev Tamerlan and Dzhokhar Tsarnaev at the scene of the Boston Marathon bombing, in a picture released by the FBI.

More details emerged at the weekend of the suspects' race to evade capture. As the authorities closed in on Thursday night in the Watertown area, the Tsarnaev brothers are accused of killing an officer with the Massachusetts Institute of Technology police, severely wounding a Boston transit officer and engaging in a frenzied car chase and shootout during which they bombarded officers with explosives, including a pressure-cooker bomb.

The chief of Watertown police, Edward Deveau, said officers attempted to tackle Tamerlan Tsanaev when he ran out of ammunition, but had to take cover as his younger brother drove a carjacked Mercedes at them. The SUV dragged Tamerlan's body down the block, he said. The suspect was taken to hospital, where he was pronounced dead. Meanwhile Dzhokhar Tsarnaev escapted on foot. He was eventually captured late on Friday night after a resident discovered a bloody trail leading to a boat in his backyard. He was taken to Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center, where security was tight on Sunday.

As authorities guarded Tsarnaev, attention turned a trip to Russia in 2012 by his older brother. His family has claimed Tamerlan Tsarnaev went to Dagestan to visit his father, but an aunt, Patimat Suleimanova, told the Guardian on Sunday that he arrived in the area before his father. She said Tamerlan Tsarnaev left the United States in January 2012 and arrived in Dagestan around March. His father, Anzor Tsarnaev, only arrived in the republic in May. "He came to become acquainted with [Dagestan]," Suleimanova said. "He would sit at home and pray. He was learning to read the Qur'an. He saw relatives, friends."

She hinted that times had become tough for the brothers after their father left the United States for Dagestan, followed a couple of months later by their mother, Zuneidat. Anzor Tsarnaev had bought a ticket for the United States for 16 April, she said, because the brothers were having money problems. "He would send money from here when he could," she said.

US officials are investigating whether Tamerlan Tsarnaev built links with Dagestani rebels, fighting a heavy police state in order to build an Islamist caliphate along Russia's southern flank. Dagestan's main rebel group denied any links with the attack in a statement released on Sunday.
'His views aren't mainstream'

The FBI was criticised on Sunday for failing to follow up on Tsarnaev after its contacts in 2011. Senator Lindsey Graham, Republican from South Carolina, told CNN's State of the Nation: "The ball was dropped in one of two ways. The FBI missed a lot of things."

Republican Peter King, chairman of the House subcommittee on counterterrorism, was also critical. "This is the firth case I'm aware of where the FBI has failed to stop someone," he told Fox News Sunday, citing the cases of al-Qaida recruiter Anwar al-Awlaki, Little Rock shooter Carlos Bledsoe, the accused Fort Hood killer Nidal Malik and alleged American-Pakistani terrorist David Coleman Headley.

The New York Times reported on Sunday that a hold was placed on a citizenship request by the 26-year-old as a result of the FBI's former interest in him. Officials at the Department of Homeland Security decided not to grant his application after a routine background check uncovered the 2011 interview by agents, the report said.

The Los Angeles Times reported on Sunday that Tamerlan Tsarnaev had been asked to leave a mosque in Cambridge, Massachusetts, three months ago, after he interrupted a prayer service to argue with the imam, who had referred to Martin Luther King Jr. A member of the mosque present at the service told the LA Times that Tsarnaev shouted: "You cannot mention this guy because he's not a Muslim!"

Imam Suhaib Webb, of the Islamic Society of Boston Cultural Center, the city's largest mosque, said in an interview that he had recently heard of the incident. "That's a sign right there that his views aren't mainstream," Webb said.
Boston Marathon memorial People participate in an interfaith memorial service on Sunday near the site of the Boston Marathon bombings. Photograph: Kevork Djansezian/Getty Images

Bostonians gathered to remember the victims on Sunday. A few blocks from where the bombs exploded less than a week ago, hundreds packed into the Church of the Covenant in Boston. The church had thrown open its doors to worshippers from the city's Old South Church, located in the police area still closed off to the public, and most of the pews were full as the service began.

The scale of the bombings was immediately apparent as around half the congregation responded to a request from Rev Dr Jim Antal, president of the Massachusetts United Church of Christ, to raise their hands they were near the explosions or knew someone who was. "Now raise your hand if you have visited or spoken with someone who was injured," Antal said. Dozens of people had.

A few miles north-west of Boston, in Medford, the family and friends of Krystle Campbell, 29, one of three spectators killed by the attacks on the Boston Marathon, held a wake for her on Sunday. The two others killed were Martin Richard, eight, of the Dorchester neighbourhood of Boston, and Lu Lingzi, 23, a Boston University graduate student from China. The university is holding a memorial service for Lingzi on Monday.

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 22 Apr 2013 03:46

Philip wrote:How inconvenient! That too after the FBI knew all about him as far back as 2011.Did they plan to use him like Headley/Gilani? Why did one of the brothers go back to Chechenya? Was he sent there by the "establishment" ?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/ap ... v-injuries

Boston Marathon suspect may never be able to be questioned, mayor says
Surviving suspect's injuries prevent him from communicating as FBI faces scrutiny over contact with Tamerlan Tsarnaev in 2011

May never be able to be questioned, mayor says

Surviving suspect's injuries prevent him from communicating as FBI faces scrutiny over contact with Tamerlan Tsarnaev in 2011

Karen McVeigh and Matt Williams in New York, Adam Gabbatt in Boston and Miriam Elder in Makhachkala, Dagestan
guardian.co.uk, Sunday 21 April 2013

Dzhokhar Tsarnaev
The medical condition of Dzhokhar Tsarnaev meant it was unlikely that the FBI would get any early leads from him, officials said. Photograph: Corbis

The surviving Boston bombings suspect is so seriously injured that investigators may struggle to interrogate him effectively, it was suggested on Sunday, as further questions were raised about the FBI's previous contacts with his dead brother.
...

He may have lost his voice but still should be able to write his answers! On the other hand if the FBI really wanted to silence him, they could have just killed him during the capture, so this part I don't understand.

pentaiah · Post by **pentaiah** » 22 Apr 2013 04:15

is the kid a US citizen or (ill) legal Alien?

if he is citizen Killing would be a problem unless there was a fire fight
otherwise they could have killed him

He still can be questioned but answers would not be forth coming

probably a case of Silence of the Lambs?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Apr 2013 05:17

Chetak, Obama admin has already its stance on seeking death penalty in federal cases known before this incident. It wont seek death penalty in those states where it is not allowed. However that was a political stance and not cast in concrete.

SaiK, if Indian police is allowed to work without interference they will get the accused. no doubt about it.Might take time but it will happen.

Philip, Its possible they missed the clues and the evidence staring at them. It happens. As the wise man said "You don't know what you know till you know!" No they know that TT was hostile.

Pentiah DT is a US citizen. He was naturalized Sept 11, 2011.
--------------------

My CT. What if there is a deep state/cover ISI operation using Non State Actors (TTP and others of that ilk) to train US based disaffected individuals to become jihadi attackers?
Jazy, Shahzad and now Tsarnev all fit that pattern.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 22 Apr 2013 05:22

ramana wrote:Pentiah DT is a US citizen. He was naturalized Sept 11, 2011.
-.

what a date!!

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 22 Apr 2013 06:45

tamerlane was shouted out of a local mosque - he was a radical
http://boston.com/metrodesk/2013/04/21/ ... story.html

Tamerlan Tsarnaev, the older and apparently more radical of two brothers suspected in the deadly Boston Marathon terror bombings, objected to a sermon at a Cambridge mosque close to Martin Luther King Day this year in which the speaker compared the Prophet Muhammad with King, known for his advocacy of nonviolence, a mosque official said.

Yusufi Vali, a spokesman for the mosque, said Tsarnaev told the speaker, “You are a kafir [an unbeliever],” and said he was contaminating people’s minds and was a hypocrite.

Vali said, “The congregation then said, ‘You are the hypocrite.’ The congregation shouted him out of the mosque.”

Later, a respected volunteer talked with Tsarnaev and told him he needed to decide whether to stay and not shout out or stop coming to the congregation.

Vali said it was the second time that Tsarnaev had made an outburst during one of the speaker’s sermons.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 22 Apr 2013 06:46

ofcourse the original idea of comparing King to pbuh itself looks shaky given the pbuh's long track record of warfare.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 22 Apr 2013 06:52

Singha wrote:tamerlane was shouted out of a local mosque - he was a radical

tut tut tut <shakes head and wiggles finger>

But the FBI cleared him no? There was a foreign country that inquired and FBI said al iz wel. The FBI is very thorough and professional no. They can throw in Daalers tht stupid CID and NIA can only dream about no? You see it is BRF paranoia about Muslims that make us suspect things when there is innocence all around. Do you think the FBI would be so hamfisted as to miss something so obvious? They have resources and competence that you do not know about

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 22 Apr 2013 07:34

the local maulvi also seems tactically positioning himself and his flock on the moral high ground, knowing the FBI is now going to be probing each and every one of the regulars there to know who tsarnaev sat and broke bread with. "we are not like him, we threw him out as a radical"

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 22 Apr 2013 07:36

Boston Marathon bombing suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev is awake and responding sporadically in writing to questions, authorities said. Investigators are asking about other cell members and other unexploded bombs, law enforcement sources told ABC News.

--
if they are smart, will fly across his mother, get him into a senti mood and make him spill the beans without any unpleasant measures.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 22 Apr 2013 07:38

Russia asked FBI to investigate Tamerlan Tsarnaev in 2011 – report

http://rt.com/news/fbi-tsarnaev-foreign-request-150/

pentaiah · Post by **pentaiah** » 22 Apr 2013 07:46

ramana wrote:
Pentiah DT is a US citizen. He was naturalized Sept 11, 2011.
--------------------
.

Thats ten years from 9/11/2001
Wow what a date to naturalize and wreck havoc

pentaiah · Post by **pentaiah** » 22 Apr 2013 07:51

No no FBI is fallible its Mossad that is not fallible

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 22 Apr 2013 08:05

I have another observation that may fall into psyops category (and may p!ss off some folks here):

Looks like the US media (according to the dictates of gov?) employs not so subtle psyops based on the ethnicity of perpetrator(s) when publishing images.

Consider the images of James Holmes of Colorado bombing spree - you will generally see the one with golden colored hair with eyes totally wide open.

Or that of Adam Lanza of Newton massacre fame. He looks way too different even in relation to his own brother/father/mother.

Looks like an effort to paint them 4 to 6 sigma away from the mean.

Now, contrast that with images of chechen brothers - all super TFTA images that create dissonance in the minds of people as to whom to trust and whom not to.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 22 Apr 2013 09:40

Austin wrote:Russia asked FBI to investigate Tamerlan Tsarnaev in 2011 – report

http://rt.com/news/fbi-tsarnaev-foreign-request-150/

And the FBI cleared him, as per a link posted earlier. The US may have been preserving this guy for future action against the USSR. As someone said - another Headley.

Cruel and heartless as this may sound, this Boston attack was a piddly one that did little damage. More people die from gunshot wounds and road accidents in a day in the US. A few people lost legs. I am sorry for them but the US has so many people losing legs that this attack can be ignored. OK maybe next marathon will have more security. Pressure cookers will not be allowed etc. But that's about it.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 22 Apr 2013 09:43

^^^

The lock down of Boston and the resulting tamasha was probably a bigger blow in terms of impact that the incident itself.

Ramana's list of aftershocks is IMVHO very prescient, that fallout will be of a bigger impact than direct attack itself.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 22 Apr 2013 09:53

saip wrote:
Satya_anveshi wrote:Wondering if this event raises any concerns of the 70s.

The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
...
This is the poem (Robert Frost?) they found on Nehru's desk when he died.

Yes Frost from "Stopping by woods on a snowy evening".

My fav is "the road not taken". I had memorized this along with "if"1 by Kipling and Blake's tiger tiger burning bright. I always like simplicity. So how is it relevant to this thread? Think of parsimony. If CTs are being advanced, let us favor those which are simpler than those which require tying oneself into a pretzel.

vina · Post by **vina** » 22 Apr 2013 10:56

Debka Files -Tsarnaev brothers were double agents who decoyed US into terror trap

Same speculation in Dekba files about the brothers being US agents who went rogue and unlike Headley (who unleashed terror against India) turned on US itself , rather than on Russia as would have been logically expected.

Debka has a long list of US agents who turned against it in the article.

The only missing thing is the "Paki" link, which will turn out eventually. What the US guys will eventually discover I think , is that Tamerlan didn't turn during his "visit" to Dagestan , but rather during his "Skiing" trip to Pakiland. Give it some time to simmer, and once it dies down, some intrepid news outlet will break this in the US.

But all the same, think of this. MMS and Indian Govt sent condolence messages for Boston bombings, but NONE for the Bangalore Bombings that happened the NEXT day , but rather we got that idiotic tweet about political benefits to BJP from a Congress loud mouth.

So really, MMS should run for the President of US, rather than PM of India (oops, sorry, he cant by US law).

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 22 Apr 2013 11:33

North Caucasus jihadists’ money traces back to Saudi Arabia and Osama bin Laden

The seed money of major North Caucasus or Chechen terrorist groups such as the Caucasus Emirate, the Islamic International Peacekeeping Brigade (IIPB), the Special Purpose Islamic Regiment (SPIR) and the Riyadus-Salikhin Reconnaissance and Sabotage Battalion of Chechen Martyrs (RSRSBCM) can all be traced back to Al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden.

Although we don’t yet know to which groups the two Russian-born brothers of Chechen descent who were identified as suspects in the Boston Marathon bombings may belong, it’s important to take a look back at the origins of the money behind the North Caucasus jihadist network overall.

Islamic International Peacekeeping Brigade

The Council on Foreign Relations says that, “According to the U.S. State Department, the Islamic International Peacekeeping Brigade is the primary channel for Islamic funding of the Chechen guerillas, in part through links to al-Qaeda-related financiers on the Arabian Peninsula.”

The Middle East Forum has more on IIPB:

In October 1999, emissaries of [IIPB founder Shamil Basayev] and [mujahideen leader] Ibn al-Khattab traveled to Kandahar where bin Laden agreed to provide fighters, equipment, and money to conduct terrorism and aid the fight against Russia. Later that year, bin Laden reportedly sent substantial sums of money to Basayev, Ibn al-Khattab, and Chechen commander Arbi Barayev to train gunmen, recruit mercenaries, and buy ammunition.

The United Nations says that, “With Al‑Qaida’s financial support, Al-Khattab also mobilized fighters from Ingushetia, Ossetia, Georgia and Azerbaijan to fight in Chechnya and Dagestan.”

History Commons offers further details similarities between Ibn Khattab and Osama Bin Laden, and the U.S. and U.K.-based imams who have funded Chechen rebels:

They share fundraising and recruiting networks. For example, a Florida cell of radical Sunnis that is monitored by the FBI starting in 1993 is involved with both organizations (see (October 1993-November 2001). Radical London imam Abu Qatada raises money for jihad in Chechnya (see 1995-February 2001 and February 2001) and is a key figure in al-Qaeda-related terrorism who is in communication with al-Qaeda logistics manager Abu Zubaida.
[BBC, 3/23/2004; Nasiri, 2006, pp. 273]
The Finsbury Park mosque of fellow London imam Abu Hamza al-Masri is used as a conduit for funds for both jihad in Chechnya and bin Laden’s Darunta camp in Afghanistan (see March 1999 and March 2000-February 2001)…

Khattab repaid Bin Laden in kind: “In October 2001, Khattab sent additional fighters to Afghanistan and promised to pay the volunteers’ families a substantial monthly stipend or a large lump-sum payment in the event of their death.”

Ibn al-Khattab: the bin Laden of Chechnya Well-to-do Saudi served as Chechen commander and jihadist financier

In Money Jihad’s earlier post on the history of terror finance in Chechnya, one name came up again and again: Ibn al-Khattab. The terrorist leader was an early disciple of Osama bin Laden, and would benefit from bin Laden’s encouragement and financial support for years until al-Khattab’s death in 2002.

But al-Khattab was also a force unto himself, managing the flow of jihadist recruits and financing their operations in the Chechen guerrilla war against Russia. One of the better descriptions of al-Khattab’s activities comes from the book Chechen Jihad by Yossef Bodansky. Here’s an excerpt:

The Chechen jihadists received another injection of strength at this time with the arrival of an organized group of hardened Arab mujahedin from the Gulf states, including Saudis and Kuwaities, and the Maghreb region of north Africa, including Algerian, Moroccan, Tunisian, and other troops. These fighters were commanded by one Ibn al-Khattab, often referred to as Emir Khattab or simply Khattab. Khattab, whose real name was Samir bin Salakh al-Suwailim, was a Bedouin from the Suwailim tribe of northwest Saudi Arabia and southern Jordan; over the years he has identified himself with both nations, depending on the circumstances. Born in 1970 to a fairly wealthy and well-educated family, Khattab received both Western and Muslim education, including learning English. In 1987 he was accepted to a college in the United States, but before continuing with his education, he decided to visit Afghanistan and briefly participate in the jihad.

Arriving in Pakistan in the fall of 1987, Khattab met some of the key leaders of the Arab “Afghans,” including Sheikh Abdallah Azzam, Sheikh Tamim Adnani, and Osama bin Laden. Captivated by their call for jihad, he committed his life to the jihad. Khattab ccompleted his training in the international camp in Jalalabad, under Hassan al-Sarehi, the commander of the 1987 Lion’s Den operation in Jaji. Impressed with the zeal and skills of his young trainee, Sarehi invited Khattab to join his forces in Jaji. Between 1988 and 1993, Khattab participated in all the major operations in the Afghan jihad, including the capture of Jalalabad, Khowst, and Kabul. He also spent time expanding his knowledge of Islam and his military skills, while becoming conversant in both Pashto and Russian.

Khattab would later claim that he decided to join the Chechen jihad after seeing televised footage of Islamist mujahedin reciting takbirs (Koranic verses) before going into battle. But his status as a commander also played a role. By the early 1990s, Khattab had emerged as one of the most fierce and competent commanders, popular with both the Afghan and the Arab “Afghan” mujahedin. He also became one of bin Laden’s key protégés. Khattab spent the years between early 1993 and early 1995 commanding a small Arab elite force in support of the Tajik Islamist mujahedin, particularly in the Fergana Valley. He returned to Afghanistan to train and lead one of the first elite forces to go to Chechnya.

When bin Laden and the Islamist-Jihadist leadership decided to escalate the jihad in the Caucasus, they summoned Khattab back from Tajikistan and dispatched him to Chechnya. Ali Hammad, a senior al Qaeda commander in Bosnia-Herzegovina in the mid-1990s, knew Khattab as a senior commander under bin Laden and considered him “one of the more important personalities in Al Qaeda.” Ali Hammad confirmed that Khattab went to Chechnya on bin Laden’s orders, and that he and bin Laden personally managed the subsequent flow of jihadist volunteers into the area.

Khattab arrived in Chechnya in the spring of 1995 with eight veteran Arab “Afghan” commanders, followed by a few dozen combat veterans. He soon became one of the most important commanders in Chechnya, quickly forming a close relationship with Shamil Basayev. One of Basayev’s closest personal friends, Chechnya’s onetime foreign minister Shamil Beno, reported that Basayev underwent a profound change in 1995 under Khattab’s influence. Basayev “started moving from freedom for Chechnya to freedom for the whole Arab world,” Beno said. “He changed from a Chechen patriot into an Islamic globalist.”