Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 06 May 2013 13:03

NaMo should have toured Kkta even more extensively, so that he can come back during Gen elections and say "look this is what happens when you dont listen to me"

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 06 May 2013 15:39

Sanku wrote:^^ Yeddi has by now created huge amount of bad blood within local BJP, I don't see how he can be accommodated, his ego was what in the first place ensured that BJP was breaking up withing 1-2 years of his taking power.

BJP should look for other solutions, getting Kumarswamy in their fold might be a better idea, at least with a alliance.

This is not a practical solution. This type of thought process leads to zero seats or the famous two seater of 1985. In UP after Kalyan's exit BJP never got back even to 80+ seats in the assembly. That is where the party will wrought for a while. Bring Kumaraswamy to BJP is like changing rank and profile of BJP. Lingayats will solidly move to Congress. This is exact ABV and later LKA style of thought process. First kill yourself to go into coma and try something to see if you can get out of coma.

Yeddi has no bad blood within local BJP and that is huge assumption. He can easily build it back to where it is.

prahaar · Post by **prahaar** » 06 May 2013 15:51

Muppalla wrote:
Sanku wrote:^^ Yeddi has by now created huge amount of bad blood within local BJP, I don't see how he can be accommodated, his ego was what in the first place ensured that BJP was breaking up withing 1-2 years of his taking power.

BJP should look for other solutions, getting Kumarswamy in their fold might be a better idea, at least with a alliance.

This is not a practical solution. This type of thought process leads to zero seats or the famous two seater of 1985. In UP after Kalyan's exit BJP never got back even to 80+ seats in the assembly. That is where the party will wrought for a while. Bring Kumaraswamy to BJP is like changing rank and profile of BJP. Lingayats will solidly move to Congress. This is exact ABV and later LKA style of thought process. First kill yourself to go into coma and try something to see if you can get out of coma.

Yeddi has no bad blood within local BJP and that is huge assumption. He can easily build it back to where it is.

Incorporating local leaders with mass based into the party should be done by BJP anywhere and everywhere it has support (not only in KA). A Modi with 3 times re-elections did not shy away from taking Radadiya back into BJP fold. If NM cannot be arrogant and blind to the ground situation, shouldn't KA BJP try to strengthen the party? Party is not made stronger by winning TV debates but having people with ground level support. Bringing Kumarasamy in BJP would mean killing KA BJP.

NM should try to create a face saving formula for Yeddi, so that at least a seat sharing arrangement is done to prevent division of votes in LS polls.

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 06 May 2013 15:52

Muppalla wrote: First kill yourself to go into coma and try something to see if you can get out of coma.

Rather like hitting one self on the head to see if one can regain memory.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 06 May 2013 16:15

Sanku wrote:^^
I dont get the "sympathy" for a person who has single handedly back-stabbed his entire team?

That honor sir, goes not to Yeddi. They are in D4.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 06 May 2013 16:31

Shri Narendra Modi addressing Saurashtra Narmada Jal Avtaran Jan Jagruti Mahayagya in Rajkot Dist on May 5, 2013

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 06 May 2013 16:46

RamaY wrote:
Sanku wrote:^^
I dont get the "sympathy" for a person who has single handedly back-stabbed his entire team?
That honor sir, goes not to Yeddi. They are in D4.

Well any all evidence points to the fact that Yeddi is the one who did it. He was gifted a platform by the party collective, he individually squandered it.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 06 May 2013 16:50

^ we don't know the real details yet.

Yeddi was credited with K win and was given CMship by D4. They certified Reddy brothers as their adopted sons. D4 approved Op.Kamal. D4 allowed the nonsense of Reddy brothers. They brought back Hegde. ...

Don't worry. In next 5 or so years we will hear more details about d4.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 06 May 2013 16:56

Sushupti wrote:Can you believe this guy is in BJP? No wonder BJP is in $hit hole for last 10 years.

Yeesh...This guy is a Marxist in dharmic clothing.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 06 May 2013 17:17

Mupalla wrote: Yeddi has no bad blood within local BJP and that is huge assumption. He can easily build it back to where it is.

Yeddi has no bad blood with local BJP? Local BJP leaders are strongly anti Yeddi now.

http://www.rediff.com/news/report/karna ... 130430.htm

What is making matters worse for Eshwarappa is that newly-founded Karnataka Janata Paksha chief Yeddyurappa has taken this battle personally. It is no secret that the two could not see eye to eye as Eshwarappa was one of the several BJP leaders who ran an anti-Yeddyurappa campaign.

http://www.dnaindia.com/bangalore/17922 ... -apologise

BJP leaders on Wednesday came down heavily on former chief minister BS Yeddyurappa for making offending remarks against chief minister Jagadish Shettar and addressing him in the singular.

Speaking with reporters, Ashwathnarayan and D H Veeraiah said the people of north Karnataka would teach the former chief minister in the forthcoming elections.

He said the statements of former ministers Shobha Karandlaje and Udasi that they resigned from BJP to build a powerful regional party in the state was “regrettable” as they had “enjoyed all the powers in ruling BJP government as cabinet ministers till yesterday”.

“Shobha Karandlaje was an alien to Bangalore. The party had recognised her and gave an opportunity to contest from Yeshwanthpur constituency. The party had also made her a minister. She has betrayed the women in the state and people of the state will not forgive her for rebelling against the BJP, he delared.

Training his guns on Udasi, Aswathanarayan said the senior politician was “in the habit of misguiding MLAs when he was in other parties too” and had now “cast his vicious spell” on the BJP MLAs.

Veeraiah slammed MLA Nehru Olekar for joining hands with Yeddyurappa. The party made him the chairman of the SC/ST commission despite a court order against him, but he had done nothing for 1.5 crore dalits in the state, he said.

http://cms.boloji.com/index.cfm?md=Cont ... ewsID=8302

Eshwarappa's Delhi mission came as Yeddyurappa Thursday faced the embarrassment of around ten ministers staying away from a meeting he called to review the functioning of various ministries.

This is the second time in less than a week that many ministers have ignored his meeting call.

http://m.ibnlive.com/news/karnataka-bjp ... 05-62.html

Bangalore: Ruling Karnataka for the first time, the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) will complete four years in power on May 30 with little to cheer and much to worry about seeking another mandate in the assembly elections less than a year away. The state's first BJP chief minister, B S Yeddyurappa, is facing a Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI) probe, as directed by the Supreme Court on Friday, into corruption charges after he was forced to quit over these charges in July last year.

The party's second chief minister, D. V. Sadananda Gowda, who succeeded Yeddyurappa on Aug 4, has been running the show unsure about how many days he will be in office since the party leadership is more concerned about placating the former chief minister and his supporters.

Though the apex court ordering a CBI probe is a severe setback to Yeddyurappa, who has been trying for a reinstatement, it does not provide relief to the BJP national leadership either. The vacillation by the BJP in firmly handling the Karnataka crisis has split the party into camps of pro- and anti-Yeddyurappa leaders, old-timers, new entrants and even a neutral one.

The relationship between Yeddyurappa loyalists, many of whom crossed over to the BJP in the last five years and have been rewarded with cabinet berths, have soured beyond repair, particularly after the leak this week of a March 26 letter by Gowda and state BJP chief K S Eshwarappa to party president Nitin Gadkari.

In the letter, Gowda and Eshwarappa accuse Yeddyurappa and several ministers loyal to him of anti-party activity and assert that their presence in the government is harmful to the party. The letter accuses them of colluding with the Congress to harm the BJP.

==========================================================

This while Delhi supported him

http://www.financialexpress.com/news/ye ... ort/822393

BJP president Nitin Gadkari on Monday seemed to have closed ranks behind Karnataka chief minister BS Yeddyurappa. Gadkari not only reiterated that he would wait for the Lokayukta’s report to be tabled when it comes to taking stand on the corruption charges against the beleaguered chief minister, but also snubbed party vice president Shanta Kumar for his comments against Yeddyurappa

I can post like 2000 articles. Surely not all DDM or false?

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 06 May 2013 17:18

RamaY wrote:^ we don't know the real details yet.

Yeddi was credited with K win and was given CMship by D4. They certified Reddy brothers as their adopted sons. D4 approved Op.Kamal. D4 allowed the nonsense of Reddy brothers. They brought back Hegde. ...

Don't worry. In next 5 or so years we will hear more details about d4.

We know the details RamaY ji, they are all over the place. They just point at Yeddi, plain and simple.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 06 May 2013 17:21

prahaar wrote: Incorporating local leaders with mass based into the party should be done by BJP anywhere and everywhere it has support (not only in KA). A Modi with 3 times re-elections did not shy away from taking Radadiya back into BJP fold. If NM cannot be arrogant and blind to the ground situation, shouldn't KA BJP try to strengthen the party?

They should, however, NM can take Radadiya into BJP because Radadiya is not trying to be NaMo. Yeddi is trying to be be all and end all with no regards for the party.

Party is not made stronger by winning TV debates but having people with ground level support. Bringing Kumarasamy in BJP would mean killing KA BJP.

Well Kumarswamy is person with huge ground level support, more than Yeddi. So why not get him in? By your own logic.

NM should try to create a face saving formula for Yeddi, so that at least a seat sharing arrangement is done to prevent division of votes in LS polls.

They have tried a lot, Yeddi is adamant. What do you do?

====================================================

For all the support Gadkari gave Yeddi, Yeddi was "remove Gadkari or I will leave" -- because he would not get his way.

The man became too self obsessed.

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 06 May 2013 17:58

^ That sounds so much like the Karnataka version of secular love purush

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 06 May 2013 19:08

I can cook like that on any leader. If we start similar stuff we can do same to Vijayaraje Schindia too. Go back few years then a tonne can be written about Kalyan Singh. If BJP doesn't know how to compromise with those who bring votes and how to accomadate with those who can split votes then the topic is which mountain on himalyas is better to do meditation and not about practical politics.

What difference between INC and BJP is a hotair topic and we are all there several times.

prahaar · Post by **prahaar** » 06 May 2013 19:32

Sanku wrote: They should, however, NM can take Radadiya into BJP because Radadiya is not trying to be NaMo. Yeddi is trying to be be all and end all with no regards for the party.

Yeddi did think of himself as the karta of KA BJP, he was denied that status.

Sanku wrote: Well Kumarswamy is person with huge ground level support, more than Yeddi. So why not get him in? By your own logic.

Sir using the above logic, BJP should include Laloo in Bihar so that it will be the biggest social combination, do you think the voters are going to take the non-sense of BJP incorporating Lalooji in BJP? At least I would never vote for a party that gives sharan to the likes of Laloo, MSA, Kapil Sibal, etc. (irrespective of their ground following). Yeddi did not have any ideological differences, nor any antagonistic vote-banks compared to BJP.

Sanku wrote: They have tried a lot, Yeddi is adamant. What do you do?

Do you know what his demands are? I do not, so cannot comment.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 06 May 2013 21:04

A 2 month old article to get the discussions back to Modi (and Rahul):

Why Narendra Modi is more popular than prime minister of India?

Of-course not! The biggest reason for his popularity is his “Social Presence“. If a political leader wants to succeed he has to reach the common man and address the social concerns which would directly or indirectly be in the welfare of citizen. A common citizen today, doesn’t have the time to sit between the phony crowd and listen to the same old promises made by politicians year after year.

So where is the common man sitting? You will find them on Facebook, Twitter and other social networking sites. The common man are the students, employees, businessman, housewives, etc. And in today’s digital world, you will find all of them sharing concerns, ideas on none other than the social networking sites.

It is news that Modi has presence even in stumble upon: http://www.stumbleupon.com/stumbler/Narendra-Modi/likes

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 06 May 2013 21:16

An anti-Modi take by one Madhusudhan Raj: http://mypraxeology.blogspot.com/2013/0 ... pular.html Mostly the usual rants and accusations. Still a good read before....

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 06 May 2013 21:57

Muppalla wrote:I can cook like that on any leader.

Yes, you can, no leader is imprevious to dissent and attack. However there is a reason why, everybody does not become Yeddi.

If we start similar stuff we can do same to Vijayaraje Schindia too.

Good example VRS faced dissension, she did stomp her feet throw herself around and made in general made an ass of herself, she rode it out, and will be back in the saddle as CM soon.

Go back few years then a tonne can be written about Kalyan Singh. If BJP doesn't know how to compromise with those who bring votes and how to accomadate with those who can split votes then the topic is which mountain on himalyas is better to do meditation and not about practical politics.

Hardly, there have been 4 serious cases of dissension triggered by horrible state level management of the party by leader
Gujarat -- Patel/Vagehla
UP -- Kalyan Singh
MP -- Uma Bharati
Kkta - Yeddi

In 2 out of four cases the situation was turned around -- and in 2002 NaMo WAS NOT a mass leader, he was a strategist and a back room worker. His mass leadership happened as he helm ed the CMship.

What difference between INC and BJP is a hotair topic and we are all there several times.

There are critical differences between INC and BJP.

BJP is a cadre based party, it can put a capable second rung NaMo against Mass leaders like Vaghela/Patel and still pull through. It can put a low key SSC against a fiery Uma Bharati and still retain MP.

INC today is a maa-beta party. BJP can not and must not behave like people driven party, with no cadre base, personality driven, no limits to how low ethics would go to retain power.

Thank you but I do not want another INC in the name of real politic.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 06 May 2013 22:06

prahaar wrote:
Sanku wrote: They should, however, NM can take Radadiya into BJP because Radadiya is not trying to be NaMo. Yeddi is trying to be be all and end all with no regards for the party.
Yeddi did think of himself as the karta of KA BJP, he was denied that status.

Hardly, his temper tantrums, playing favorites, ignoring party cadre etc after CMship are legendary. Karya kartas do not carry out anti party activities if they cant be CM from jail.

I have quoted a 1% snapshot of his activities above. There are reams of his misbehavior with collegues etc.

Sanku wrote: Well Kumarswamy is person with huge ground level support, more than Yeddi. So why not get him in? By your own logic.
Sir using the above logic, BJP should include Laloo in Bihar so that it will be the biggest social combination,

Sir BJP **HAS BEEN** in bed with Kumarswamy before, and Kumarswamy is not Laloo. So a partnership to revive themselves may not be too bad, Kkta voters have shown they care a fig for such things as credibility etc anyway.

Yeddi did not have any ideological differences, nor any antagonistic vote-banks compared to BJP.

That is true, yet he created the condition where the party which is the root of his ideology is smashed. How does that square up?

Sanku wrote: They have tried a lot, Yeddi is adamant. What do you do?

Do you know what his demands are? I do not, so cannot comment.[/quote]

Yes, some of them are in above snippets I posted, he wanted complete control of BJP and run it according to his whims even when in Jail, even his own proteege, Sadanand Gowda, who was made CM because Yeddi wanted, ran afoul of Yeddi because he refused to "sit, fetch, stand, dance" routine, and complained against the anti BJP activities of many Yeddi loyalists who Yeddi had gotten in from Congress.

Kkta was hopelessly misgoverned, and BJP was falling apart, dissension was breaking the party, and despite every chance extended to him by central leadership, he kept the "my way or highway approach" and was not listening to anyone.

prahaar · Post by **prahaar** » 06 May 2013 22:38

A question for Atriji,
Based on your post regarding Mansabdari and Shivaji's actions to try eliminating it (this is the post http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 0#p1453176)

Could you please comment if NaMo is trying something similar in Gujarat by bypassing the "jagirdaars" who control various caste formations and try to introduce a direct access system between the aam junta and the CM of the state? After reading your post, I have come to believe, this is one reason NaMo is opposed so vigorously by elites from all parts of the country (including the so-called a-political highly educated buddhi-jivis).

Now, since you mention NaMo following a much more Savarkarite model of development than a Sanghi model of development, are there any pointers to learn about the governance model of NaMo? At least in his speeches NaMo is quite vociferous about federal structure being sacrosanct, and this federal structure being an essential feature to maintain India's unity and integrity. But does that mean he prefers regional satraps (which would again mean extension of Mughal power structure and quite opposite to what he seems to be doing in Gujarat) or does Savarkarite model provide any pointers?

Any elaboration on the above would be great.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 06 May 2013 22:45

This was precisely my pointer, Prahaar ji..

But this thread is too political and too fast for my own taste and idea's rumination.. I would reply you in future gdf dhaga..

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 06 May 2013 23:12

Atri, how can you discuss parts of India being core and others not being core?

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 06 May 2013 23:23

SwamyG wrote:Atri, how can you discuss parts of India being core and others not being core?

Saar, I have said whatever is left is core onlee.. We have lsot parts of core in 1947. Punjab, Sindh, Bengal was core Bhaarata.. we lost it.. I said, attack on atari junction (last Indian stop in Punjab before train enters pakistan) is also an attack on India's core.. we are on reserve fuel already..

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 06 May 2013 23:26

Sanku wrote:Hardly, there have been 4 serious cases of dissension triggered by horrible state level management of the party by leader
Gujarat -- Patel/Vagehla
UP -- Kalyan Singh
MP -- Uma Bharati
Kkta - Yeddi

In 2 out of four cases the situation was turned around -- and in 2002 NaMo WAS NOT a mass leader, he was a strategist and a back room worker. His mass leadership happened as he helm ed the CMship.

UP is too big and single reason for giving the dynasty extra life. KKta is also big under the current circumstances of lowered BJP's power. These are not something that in the name of ideology to leave the fields for dynasties ruling from outside India. What kind of strategy/tactics that the BJP that cherishes/blushed at the name of Chanakya has to save the country from falling into modern day Robert Clive? Should we say Robert Clive is bettern than Kalyan Singh and Yeddi?

Thank you but I do not want another INC in the name of real politic.

You don't want another INC of 1975-1985 atleast temporarily and are you okay with INC of 2000-2013? Choice is yours. You will always get a better opportunity if you win the same state for two terms continuously. It is the patience that is needed and should have the will power to take the pain. Yeddi/Reddy could be a pain but it is an endurable one compared to Sonia's pain that is now we are going through. Similar silly stuff in UP is the reason for the nation's mess. Where is Nation first, party next stuff? If Yeddi is a black mark on party then that is second after Nation. Right? wrong?

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 06 May 2013 23:45

Muppalla wrote: What kind of strategy/tactics that the BJP that cherishes/blushed at the name of Chanakya has to save the country from falling into modern day Robert Clive? Should we say Robert Clive is bettern than Kalyan Singh and Yeddi?

Muppalla-ji --> there is no doubt that BJP as a whole, and its central leadership in particular, mishandled both UP and Kkta. It is as simple as that.

However the important point is, the mess was not of their making.

However they were also able to turn around Gujarat, and MP.

So net, net, while I will say that they did well in two places, they should be critized in other two places, however, I do not think the solution is to "accommodate" either Yeddi or Kalyan SIngh --> a lot was done to accomodate them and the damage was partially due to the same.

The solution IMVHO would have been to quickly and decisively put up another candidate, and move to cut Yeddi while he was throwing tantrums, by reaching to Lingayats directly and aggressively.

The vote bank of Yeddi should have been with BJP even if Yeddi went, nothing was done early to achieve that, and that in my view is the mistake.

Thank you but I do not want another INC in the name of real politic.
You don't want another INC of 1975-1985 atleast temporarily and are you okay with INC of 2000-2013? Choice is yours.?

No Sir INCs of 1975-1985 inexorably give rise to INC of 2013. I will take you own words, patience is what is required, loss is acceptable but not at the cost of INC meme, the BJP way must be kept alive, even if alloyed with real politic and corruption, but INC in any of it Nehruvian forms is IMVHO very dangerous. It would be a Pyrrhic victory.

Let us see if 2014 can be won as BJP now.

muraliravi · Post by **muraliravi** » 06 May 2013 23:50

I will say only this, They screwed up Karnataka whatever the reasons be. But as long as there vote share does not go below 30% and they get close to 60 seats they will be fine for the LS 2014. There is no need to cry too much about it. Instead they should learn the lessons from this debacle. We dont have enough information to predict who destroyed the BJP internally in Karnataka. If indeed the new BJP team in delhi finds that any of the top Position holders were involved in internal sabotage (in Karnataka, HP, UTT), they should be mercilessly kicked out (even if it Advani)

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 06 May 2013 23:59

muraliravi wrote:I will say only this, They screwed up Karnataka whatever the reasons be. But as long as there vote share does not go below 30% and they get close to 60 seats they will be fine for the LS 2014. There is no need to cry too much about it. Instead they should learn the lessons from this debacle. We dont have enough information to predict who destroyed the BJP internally in Karnataka. If indeed the new BJP team in delhi finds that any of the top Position holders were involved in internal sabotage (in Karnataka, HP, UTT), they should be mercilessly kicked out (even if it Advani)

How would they find out?

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 07 May 2013 00:01

muraliravi wrote:. If indeed the new BJP team in delhi finds that any of the top Position holders were involved in internal sabotage (in Karnataka, HP, UTT), they should be mercilessly kicked out (even if it Advani)

I fully agree, and if it is Yeddi, then BJP must make a example of him to ensure that there are no more Yeddi's in BJP. The status quo is unacceptable, it must be changed.

muraliravi · Post by **muraliravi** » 07 May 2013 00:14

ramana wrote:
muraliravi wrote:I will say only this, They screwed up Karnataka whatever the reasons be. But as long as there vote share does not go below 30% and they get close to 60 seats they will be fine for the LS 2014. There is no need to cry too much about it. Instead they should learn the lessons from this debacle. We dont have enough information to predict who destroyed the BJP internally in Karnataka. If indeed the new BJP team in delhi finds that any of the top Position holders were involved in internal sabotage (in Karnataka, HP, UTT), they should be mercilessly kicked out (even if it Advani)

How would they find out?

Ramana ji, if NV Subramanian in his latest article can just stop short of giving the names of the central BJP leaders who acted like dalals to the corrupt looby of BJP-KA, then a honest interrogation by independent non-delhi non-KA based BJP top rung leaders will be quite startling.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 07 May 2013 00:15

How about others? Yeddi is already without his cheddi.
He had to do his part to destory BJP in Karnataka to get out of CBI clutches.
Recall he wanted to join INC but was told to stay out.

muraliravi · Post by **muraliravi** » 07 May 2013 00:17

Anyway the outcome of all this is that BJP should not miss the larger picture. INC will try and make this as a referendum on UPA 2 and media will collude. What BJP needs right away is to infuse a huge B12 shot into its karyakartas and supporters across India. They should not wait for the 4 elections in Oct. They need to do it right now. Best way forward is just announce NaMo as the candidate and let him do a nationwide tour.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 07 May 2013 01:27

prahaar wrote:Could you please comment if NaMo is trying something similar in Gujarat by bypassing the "jagirdaars" who control various caste formations and try to introduce a direct access system between the aam junta and the CM of the state? After reading your post, I have come to believe, this is one reason NaMo is opposed so vigorously by elites from all parts of the country (including the so-called a-political highly educated buddhi-jivis).

Now, since you mention NaMo following a much more Savarkarite model of development than a Sanghi model of development, are there any pointers to learn about the governance model of NaMo? At least in his speeches NaMo is quite vociferous about federal structure being sacrosanct, and this federal structure being an essential feature to maintain India's unity and integrity. But does that mean he prefers regional satraps (which would again mean extension of Mughal power structure and quite opposite to what he seems to be doing in Gujarat) or does Savarkarite model provide any pointers?

Interesting questions. My own view is that for every new vote NM attracts there is one he repels. He must change that ratio. The question is which grouping will get you to 272. My own take is that even in GJ NM was able to take the core 30% that would vote BJP no matter what and add another 19% based of economy, development, pride, etc.

The problems will come in parts of India where the BJP core vote is not 30%.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 07 May 2013 01:40

SwamyG wrote:An anti-Modi take by one Madhusudhan Raj: http://mypraxeology.blogspot.com/2013/0 ... pular.html Mostly the usual rants and accusations. Still a good read before....

SwamyG,

What is your problem with the conclusion.

As long as individuals don't assume responsibility of their own lives, their situation won't improve for better.

prahaar · Post by **prahaar** » 07 May 2013 01:42

Theo_Fidel wrote:
prahaar wrote:Could you please comment if NaMo is trying something similar in Gujarat by bypassing the "jagirdaars" who control various caste formations and try to introduce a direct access system between the aam junta and the CM of the state? After reading your post, I have come to believe, this is one reason NaMo is opposed so vigorously by elites from all parts of the country (including the so-called a-political highly educated buddhi-jivis).

Now, since you mention NaMo following a much more Savarkarite model of development than a Sanghi model of development, are there any pointers to learn about the governance model of NaMo? At least in his speeches NaMo is quite vociferous about federal structure being sacrosanct, and this federal structure being an essential feature to maintain India's unity and integrity. But does that mean he prefers regional satraps (which would again mean extension of Mughal power structure and quite opposite to what he seems to be doing in Gujarat) or does Savarkarite model provide any pointers?
Interesting questions. My own view is that for every new vote NM attracts there is one he repels. He must change that ratio. The question is which grouping will get you to 272. My own take is that even in GJ NM was able to take the core 30% that would vote BJP no matter what and add another 19% based of economy, development, pride, etc.

The problems will come in parts of India where the BJP core vote is not 30%.

I would be interested to see if you have any pointer to substantiate your claim about NM repelling one vote for gaining another vote. About his electoral winnability; 50% vote percentage is NOT needed in most assembly and parliamentary seats. I agree to the fact that his model governance is disruptive to the existing power structure in India, which relies on thekedars of vote based on minority status, sub-identities, etc. The political model is more like Labour gang leaders negotiating with a contractors on which site he will take his gang. The gang leader only has to deliver a bottle of liquor by EOD, he will not take the labour gang to a contractor that demands more disciplined work but compensates with a day-care for the labourer's children. That is the sad state of affairs, but that does not mean if someone is try to bypass these self-serving gang leaders is not desirable.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 07 May 2013 03:05

Per a chaiwaala, Modi's way of selecting candidates is what making the abduls shiver in dhothis. Folks are worried of game changing moments. I will use this post with a "I told you so" when (if) that happens.

disha · Post by **disha** » 07 May 2013 05:02

Theo_Fidel wrote:Interesting questions. My own view is that for every new vote NM attracts there is one he repels.

False logic.

He must change that ratio.

Why? Even Obama does not have 2/3rd votes? He got only 50.4% votes for every vote polled. That is for every vote gained, Obama repelled one vote! Funny!!

The question is which grouping will get you to 272. My own take is that even in GJ NM was able to take the core 30% that would vote BJP no matter what and add another 19% based of economy, development, pride, etc.

Question is will Congress retain 206 seats or come down below 116? You know that it got most seats from AP (33)/Mah/Raj/UP. BSP and MNS played spoilsport in Mah.

The problems will come in parts of India where the BJP core vote is not 30%.

Same can be said about Sonia, even worse.

It boils down to only one thing - as Bill Clinton said "It is economy, stupid". Congress will want to retain its KHAM (or equivalent cards) and that needs to be broken, the middle class will not step out and vote till its purse hurts and that needs to be fixed.

In dire economic situation, KHAM breaks. Middle class may come out and vote larger. In good economic situation, KHAM consolidates and middle-class at best is absent. Votes are bought.

So if you are trying to show what NaMo should do or not, do not worry. BJP with NaMo at helm has to turn the swing against BJP in 2009 from -3% to +3%. It is doable and we are talking about @200 seats. Or put it this way 1/3rd by single largest party BJP, the allies will come in droves after that.

On another note, what should the dynasty do theo? Currently they are doing scam a day, dance naked, give away land and kill the economy. What more? What should Sonia do - evangalize what?

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 07 May 2013 05:09

Atri wrote:
SwamyG wrote:Atri, how can you discuss parts of India being core and others not being core?
Saar, I have said whatever is left is core onlee.. We have lsot parts of core in 1947. Punjab, Sindh, Bengal was core Bhaarata.. we lost it.. I said, attack on atari junction (last Indian stop in Punjab before train enters pakistan) is also an attack on India's core.. we are on reserve fuel already..

The problem is in the 21st century, we still speak some parts being core, implying others are not. Maybe if I misunderstood, you could correct me.

disha · Post by **disha** » 07 May 2013 05:11

Theo_Fidel wrote:
SwamyG wrote:An anti-Modi take by one Madhusudhan Raj: http://mypraxeology.blogspot.com/2013/0 ... pular.html Mostly the usual rants and accusations. Still a good read before....
SwamyG,

What is your problem with the conclusion.
As long as individuals don't assume responsibility of their own lives, their situation won't improve for better.

theo, that is the only sane cliche. Rest of the article along with cliches is junk ... too much crap to sort out through.

If one is biased, one can cook up evidence to fit the bias. That is what you do in smaller scale and what Twista does at a larger scale. Where is your India first strategy? No do not bring in preachments from west. They do not fit.

vivek.rao · Post by **vivek.rao** » 07 May 2013 08:23

http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/th ... 689899.ece

This is what this country has come to. The libtard arguing against freeing CBI.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 07 May 2013 09:11

Theo_Fidel wrote:
SwamyG wrote:An anti-Modi take by one Madhusudhan Raj: http://mypraxeology.blogspot.com/2013/0 ... pular.html Mostly the usual rants and accusations. Still a good read before....
SwamyG,

What is your problem with the conclusion.
As long as individuals don't assume responsibility of their own lives, their situation won't improve for better.

Where did I say I had anything against that conclusion. Even broken clocks show correct time twice, they say.....