Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 05 Jun 2013 12:11

i have a airtel 3G sim on a dedicated data plan for my ipad. I live right on the ORR. quality is very patchy with often relapsing to edge. sometimes is very good, sometimes very bad...all over the place. generally not very fast.

negi · Post by **negi** » 05 Jun 2013 12:20

Mine is company owned and company paid I live in Indiranagar and at times venture out to HSR or Jayanagar side but I get above 2.1 Mbps most of the times . Even in April when I went to Dehradoon I used my mobile as a hotspot for checking some office emails and stuff like that the speed was in 3G range. When I was new to Bangalore I had a personal postpaid and I had purchased a 3gb data plan from Airtel as I did not have a broadband connection so I was using it at home as well. It is pretty decent here, at least where I live. Just ran a speed test now and it showed 2.14 Mbps.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 05 Jun 2013 14:50

Speedtest app gave me 4.5mbps now

negi · Post by **negi** » 05 Jun 2013 14:51

^ Someone told me vodafone and DOCOMO lease the infra from Airtel, I never verified it.
GD in Bagmane it gives 6.96.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 05 Jun 2013 15:31

For all the smartphone talk here , the older gen still want numeric keys, no qwerty, no fancy screen, ...she asked me for a new phone, i showed her nokia asha 202 for 4k and that closed her deal.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 05 Jun 2013 17:21

it has a qwerty keyboard..she wanted just numbers.
I was trying to palm off my samsung galaxy duos to her to get myself a canvas hd but no can do.

Zynda · Post by **Zynda** » 05 Jun 2013 19:34

Guys from K'laga, I am getting a measly 60Kbps...my friend is getting much better speeds of 1Mbps. I know my phone used to work great in massa with a 3G connection (8Mbps avg speed). Need to visit Airtel service center and find out if they can help me in getting some decent speeds!

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 05 Jun 2013 20:29

Windows 8.1 preview....start button is back, metro start screen floats on top of desktop so less schizophrenic experience (its a chankian UI tweak which works) but main focus is on search.

Mickey search strat-e-jee is basically like Chacha's Google+ strat-e-jee....embed the darn functionality into every aspect of product and people will use it.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 05 Jun 2013 23:02

App Wars comes to Wearables

After TV, its automotive and wearables.....

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 06 Jun 2013 20:25

Guys,
Lenovo seems to have knocked it out of the ballpark with its latest smartphone lineup....
its models are costing ~10k less to the comparables in sammy stable (in the highend range).

Seriously considering one of K900(intel processor), P780 or S920 as an upgrade to my Gnote1..

RB ji any inside views on screen , reliability and build quality aspects ?

member_22872 · Post by **member_22872** » 06 Jun 2013 20:35

Guys, did anyone jailbreak their iphones? is it worth it? any consequences? how did you do it?

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 06 Jun 2013 21:51

Lenovos seem like a hit and miss right now when it comes to smartphones. In terms of screen they are in the middle with typical ODM sourced displays - neither great nor turd. Haven't used any Lenovo phones extensively to form an opinion unlike Samsung.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 07 Jun 2013 00:56

IPhones, iPads face U.S. ban as Apple loses ITC case to Samsung

Samsung Electronics scored a point on Tuesday over global rival Apple (AAPL) in their long-running battle over mobile device patents.

A U.S. trade body found the Silicon Valley giant had infringed on a patent owned by the Korean company and slapped a ban on the sale of certain older iPhone and iPad models sold by AT&T.

The U.S. International Trade Commission, an independent federal agency, issued a limited order stopping all imports and sales for AT&T models of the iPhone 4, iPhone 3GS, iPad 3G and iPad 2 3G. The versions targeted are more than a year old but are still solid sellers.

All such exclusion orders are sent to President Barack Obama, who has 60 days to review them. If he does not veto the order, it goes into effect.

unbelievable now the hunter has become hunted.
good for aapil.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 07 Jun 2013 01:03

^^^Ombaba apparently is in town, hat in hand so unlikely he will go against FruitCo.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 07 Jun 2013 01:22

More Nokia 41-megapixel 'EOS' photos leak, show different angles and colors

Following an earlier discussion on smartphone cameras...

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 07 Jun 2013 03:53

The hump looks bigger (in area) than the 808. How does so much stuff leak anyway? Almost all phones are leaked ahead of their release.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 07 Jun 2013 04:01

^^^Well, Nokia can use any pixel binning or any other technique to avoid the optical zoom they wish, but ultimately it doesn't offer the pixel density with optical zoom of 3-5 times, actual control of shutter speed, aperture or ISO - no smart phone does and any photo enthusiast has many choices with light and P&S cameras that are very affordable. P&S are getting better and there are many choices. They have always sold less than phones and tablets. The P&S market has never sold any model in the tens of millions, but it will never be replaced with smart phones.

This is what I tell mohtarmas to carry in their purse along with their phone:

$650 – Sony RX100
$600 - Fujifilm X20
$400-$500 – Canon G15
$300-$400 – Canon S100/S110, Fujifilm XF1, Nikon P510, Panasonic LX7
$200-$300 – Canon SX260, Panasonic ZS15
$100-$200 – Canon SX500
There are also small cameras like Olympus PEN and Panasonic 4/3 with interchangeable lens systems which are affordable and take great pictures in the $500-$600 range. There are a lot of choices at various price points for anyone who is interested in taking great pictures. Yes, this takes time, but taking pictures and experimenting is something many people like doing. Finally, anyone who has used pancake lenses on a DSLR would know it too offers many portable advantages.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 07 Jun 2013 04:08

Mort, I was fascinated by the Olympus PenFT as a schoolkid. The ads were in Time magazine those days.
By the time I came to US it was out of production and very few samples were available to buy. Mostly used.

So never could buy one for resonable price as it became a collectible.

http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.co ... s-pen.html

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 07 Jun 2013 04:22

Mort Walker wrote:^^^Well, Nokia can use any pixel binning or any other technique to avoid the optical zoom they wish, but ultimately it doesn't offer the pixel density with optical zoom of 3-5 times, actual control of shutter speed, aperture or ISO - no smart phone does and any photo enthusiast has many choices with light and P&S cameras that are very affordable.

Pixel density of optical zoom?

Its not Sunday yet Mortullah, keep off the herps!

New flash: Most of the consumers are not photo enthusiasts just like most consumers who use CE devices are not geeks. So you will continue having a niche of enthusiasts who will willingly refer to their DSLRs as their "point & shoot" cameras, will lug multiple cameras all over the world and take great pics worthy of our Photo dhaaga. But for 85-90% of the consumer population, the smartphone is gonna be their camera.

Mort Walker wrote:The P&S market has never sold any model in the tens of millions, but it will never be replaced with smart phones.

Reality check: It already has been surpassed circa 2007 or thereabouts in terms of sheer volume of pics taken by phones vs cameras of any kind (not just P&S). So what you claim wont happen has already happened and P&S is going the way of standalone PNDs or possibly an even worse fate

The best camera is the one you have with you - not one which requires you to cart it around exclusively for taking pics. Waqt ke saath aagay badho Mortullah! The times a' changin'!

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 07 Jun 2013 04:24

hanumadu wrote:The hump looks bigger (in area) than the 808. How does so much stuff leak anyway? Almost all phones are leaked ahead of their release.

Through ODMs or tier-I suppliers. Nowadays folks who leak from chipanda factories are quite clever and mask all identifying marks which can lead to them getting caught.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 07 Jun 2013 04:57

Pixel density when you zoom which causes cropping.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 07 Jun 2013 05:20

^^^How many consumers want poster sized prints (not just viewable on a monitor) of a max zoomed in scene taken from their P&S? Probably not a whole lot and that's where that might come in handy. And for those few times, thats why you have professional photographers with the TFTA DSLRs, selection of lenses and rigs. For the rest, there is the mobile phone. Nobody is looking to replace those high-end cameras with smartphone ones despite the convenience and ease of use of the latter. But P&S category is now like dhobi ka kutta, na ghar ka, na ghat ka.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 07 Jun 2013 05:32

^^^I have wanting to buy 920 for some time and now evil Raja babu posts link to this supposedly new device from Nokia+W8 and some sort of super camera...I have seen the amazing quality of camera on 808 but the Symbian OS was the drawback...if Nokia is coming out with LUMIA series+808 type of camera, I'll wait for this to hit the store.

And RB, you're right about camera that one has with oneself...I used to click N number of pics with my N8; in office parties and get together, they would actually search me out to take pic as N8 had that superb camera. Most of the pics I had taken were of a quality which could be used as desktop wallpaper and that served most of the purpose.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 07 Jun 2013 05:50

The Lumia 928 is a proper successor to the N8 since it has a xenon flash, the 920 doesn't. Even back in the days, N8 had a superb camera - didn't they shoot the world's tiniest (in size) stop motion animation film with it?

Dot - The World's Tiniest Stop Motion Animation film

The making of Dot using the Nokia N8

Despite Mortullah's retro-pessimism, this shows just how far phone camera technology has come (and the N8's camera technology is already like ~3 years old and is an ancestor of the PureView).

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 07 Jun 2013 06:02

Raja Bose wrote:^^^How many consumers want poster sized prints (not just viewable on a monitor) of a max zoomed in scene taken from their P&S? Probably not a whole lot and that's where that might come in handy. And for those few times, thats why you have professional photographers with the TFTA DSLRs, selection of lenses and rigs. For the rest, there is the mobile phone. Nobody is looking to replace those high-end cameras with smartphone ones despite the convenience and ease of use of the latter. But P&S category is now like dhobi ka kutta, na ghar ka, na ghat ka.

Most people interested in photography are not looking for large amounts of gear nor an expensive rig, but people have a budget and there are many good choices at all price points over any camera phone. Rather people who want to take good captures want the basics of shutter speed, aperture, and ISO control. In fact, photography interest today has increased over the time of film. If you want to post nanga shots of yourself on the internet - then a camera phone is good for you. If you want to capture the moment, always try to carry a small camera with you since it will always be better than any camera phone.

The P&S category will always be small compared to camera phones, but if you want quality shots, you will pause and evaluate a better solution.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 07 Jun 2013 06:13

ramana wrote:Mort, I was fascinated by the Olympus PenFT as a schoolkid. The ads were in Time magazine those days.
By the time I came to US it was out of production and very few samples were available to buy. Mostly used. So never could buy one for resonable price as it became a collectible.

http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.co ... s-pen.html

Ramana,

The Olympus PEN digital version with 14-42mm lens sells for $300-$600 and has interchangeable lenses. It lives up to the old Olympus PEN and the sensor is made by Sony. If you are in a shop, it is worth taking a look at.

The trend in cameras is moving away from optical view finder to electronic in order to save space of not having a penta-prism or mechanical shutter box.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 07 Jun 2013 07:07

Mort Walker wrote:
Raja Bose wrote:^^^How many consumers want poster sized prints (not just viewable on a monitor) of a max zoomed in scene taken from their P&S? Probably not a whole lot and that's where that might come in handy. And for those few times, thats why you have professional photographers with the TFTA DSLRs, selection of lenses and rigs. For the rest, there is the mobile phone. Nobody is looking to replace those high-end cameras with smartphone ones despite the convenience and ease of use of the latter. But P&S category is now like dhobi ka kutta, na ghar ka, na ghat ka.
Most people interested in photography are not looking for large amounts of gear nor an expensive rig, but people have a budget and there are many good choices at all price points over any camera phone. Rather people who want to take good captures want the basics of shutter speed, aperture, and ISO control. In fact, photography interest today has increased over the time of film. If you want to post nanga shots of yourself on the internet - then a camera phone is good for you. If you want to capture the moment, always try to carry a small camera with you since it will always be better than any camera phone.

The P&S category will always be small compared to camera phones, but if you want quality shots, you will pause and evaluate a better solution.

That's what I am saying - that category of people you speak of are enthusiasts and do not include the overwhelming majority of the consumer market. For the niche market, you will have high end kit or low end DSLRs masquerading as P&S, for the rest there is the mobile phone. Just like standalone PNDs are there for some hardcore users and use cases (marine etc.), so are standalone cameras.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 07 Jun 2013 07:13

imo the cellphone cams are quite hopeless in capturing shots of moving objects like kids , their auto setting 'shutter' speed being too slow...their lack of dedicated buttons or dials to adjust the shutter speed and ISO for such situations means you cannot capture passing shots with changed settings without digging down into a menu. same for low light conditions...it gets very tiring and boring esp in bright sunlight when the screen itself isnt very visible.

you can point and click and hope for the best thats all.

giving the example of one or two cellphone cams that do well in such conditions doesnt count because 90% of P&S get it done without problems. plus bigger sensor size in P&S means better low light perf.

they should design a new translucent overlay dial UI to control the major settings by turning a wheel with a finger and audible clicks.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 07 Jun 2013 07:33

Singha wrote:imo the cellphone cams are quite hopeless in capturing shots of moving objects like kids , their auto setting 'shutter' speed being too slow...their lack of dedicated buttons or dials to adjust the shutter speed and ISO for such situations means you cannot capture passing shots with changed settings without digging down into a menu. same for low light conditions...it gets very tiring and boring esp in bright sunlight when the screen itself isnt very visible.

you can point and click and hope for the best thats all.

giving the example of one or two cellphone cams that do well in such conditions doesnt count because 90% of P&S get it done without problems. plus bigger sensor size in P&S means better low light perf.

they should design a new translucent overlay dial UI to control the major settings by turning a wheel with a finger and audible clicks.

Use the new Lumias and check out their performance in low light and capturing fast motion. Its not the technology which is lacking anymore so its a question of commoditization. Example, look at what happened to phone cams in terms of HDR and shutter speed in 2011-2012. That gives a hint of where the P&S segment is headed to.

----

Right now sitting hearing a panel of VCs moaning how RoI has been near zero for last 10 years.

BhairavP · Post by **BhairavP** » 07 Jun 2013 07:36

The most popular camera on Flickr is the iPhone..

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 07 Jun 2013 07:37

Singha wrote:imo the cellphone cams are quite hopeless in capturing shots of moving objects like kids , their auto setting 'shutter' speed being too slow...their lack of dedicated buttons or dials to adjust the shutter speed and ISO for such situations means you cannot capture passing shots with changed settings without digging down into a menu. same for low light conditions...it gets very tiring and boring esp in bright sunlight when the screen itself isnt very visible.

you can point and click and hope for the best thats all.

giving the example of one or two cellphone cams that do well in such conditions doesnt count because 90% of P&S get it done without problems. plus bigger sensor size in P&S means better low light perf.

they should design a new translucent overlay dial UI to control the major settings by turning a wheel with a finger and audible clicks.

You are absolutely right, which is why Samsung has introduced the Galaxy Camera. It has significant flaws, but it is an indication of what is possible with a mobile OS controlling a camera.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 07 Jun 2013 07:41

Raja Bose wrote: That's what I am saying - that category of people you speak of are enthusiasts and do not include the overwhelming majority of the consumer market. For the niche market, you will have high end kit or low end DSLRs masquerading as P&S, for the rest there is the mobile phone. Just like standalone PNDs are there for some hardcore users and use cases (marine etc.), so are standalone cameras.

It is not a niche market. By those standards even cars are a niche market compared to smart phones and tablets. More and more people are wanting decent cameras that have an optical zoom, no shutter lag and control. The camera in a phone is for convenience and not for a photo hobbyist.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 07 Jun 2013 07:42

BhairavP wrote:The most popular camera on Flickr is the iPhone..

....and most iPhone shots are horrible.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 07 Jun 2013 08:23

Mort Walker wrote:
Raja Bose wrote: That's what I am saying - that category of people you speak of are enthusiasts and do not include the overwhelming majority of the consumer market. For the niche market, you will have high end kit or low end DSLRs masquerading as P&S, for the rest there is the mobile phone. Just like standalone PNDs are there for some hardcore users and use cases (marine etc.), so are standalone cameras.
It is not a niche market. By those standards even cars are a niche market compared to smart phones and tablets. More and more people are wanting decent cameras that have an optical zoom, no shutter lag and control. The camera in a phone is for convenience and not for a photo hobbyist.

Well your tablet or phone can't be used as a mode of physical transportation so the comparison is invalid

. You are right, the photo hobbyist will not be satisfied with a phone camera and neither are they satisfied with a typical P&S either. The smartphone has already reduced the P&S segment to a niche one becoz most consumers are not photo hobbyists and dont see a need to caery a P&S which provides similar results. Just like most drivers are not driving enthusiasts.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 07 Jun 2013 10:24

X-post

Atul Chitnis passed away on 3rd June after a year long battle with cancer

People who used a PC in the 1990s will remember the numerous software programmes and clever hacks & tips that Chitnis was famous for and his consultancy with Kishore Bhargava (c & b consulting). RIP sir.

Here is his last blog post from 21 March 2013.

negi · Post by **negi** » 07 Jun 2013 12:22

1 in 1000 or 10000 people print what they shoot; people tell good things about out of the camera pics taken from my Canon S90 for it produces better ones than my D90 with primes and is that due to my incompetence at handing a DSLR ? May be but the point is 90% of the junta takes photos in auto mode most of them even don't know what ISO, aperture , shutter speed etc etc is and that holds true for a lot of guys who have DSLRs too just because they have become cheap a lot of folks bought them in last few years but now the whole craze is slowing down. Be it social media or even serious stuff like reporting in media I see influx of good smart phones for people prefer a swiss army knife no one wants to carry an extra gear to just take photos not unless you have a passion for it or you make a living out of taking photos; rest of the crowd will be happy with a smart phone camera if it can take a nice group photo in front of a monument or in some chic's birthday party or a restaurant . Low light photography is another animal you can't get a nice picture even with DSLR in auto mode in low light one friggin needs to play with the settings and in some cases may be even use flash or tripod so it is not as if having a DSLR means better pics in low light one needs to be a pretty good at photography and only those who have it as a serious hobby would take the pain to read their camera manual and spend 5-10 minutes on each shot. Rest of us will just click away and move to next subject. The memory span of the junta is coming down ; my parents have B&W photographs dating back to when I was a kid but there are no photos of mine when I was in engineering (even though thousands must have been taken) for all of them were mostly digital and must be in some CD/DVD disc , today photos are clicked, shared on Facebook and changed after a day or two who would want to spend 10 minutes setting up a shot only to discard that pic in a day or two ? Point being majority of folks out there just want a decent camera with them all the time to take pictures now if their phone can do it for them even better.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 07 Jun 2013 20:49

BhairavP, your next phone

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 07 Jun 2013 21:14

negi wrote:1 in 1000 or 10000 people print what they shoot; ... pictures now if their phone can do it for them even better.

+100. Nicely put - majority of the people have neither the passion nor the ability to handle a fundu camera. Speaking from experience, I took about 700 photos of Swiss mountains/landscapes long time ago with a SLR (and I was not very good with it because that was my first camera ever). Most of them were either under or overexposed. When I wanted to show the pictures to my parents, they were interested only in the few pictures where I was in the frame. All the landscapes and scenery was completely uninteresting for them. They flipped through the 700 in about 15 minutes and that's it. I don't even where those pictures are anymore. Can't live in the past - lots of things to do right NOW.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 07 Jun 2013 21:17

All I need is a huge SD card, and x300 zoom with IS for my cell phone - point and shoot.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 07 Jun 2013 21:34

SaiK wrote:All I need is a huge SD card, and x300 zoom with IS for my cell phone - point and shoot.

All smartphones now also have integrated cloud storage so no need to download pics/sync stuff/plug in cables/attach docks. I dont even need to think consciously offloading my camera pics to a PC or uploading them into cloud storage. Its done and synced as and when I take the pics and when I get to my PC later in the day, its already there in my folders.

10 years from now kids will be wondering WTF is syncing stuff and shouldn't everything on one of your devices appear automatically on another of your devices and WTH do you need cables to charge (after using wireless charging with my phunwas for quite a while now, I cannot go back to using a USB cable unless I am traveling). Services like SkyDrive, Google Drive, iCloud essentially represent a fundamental change in how people relate to and handle data. Data is no longer a low-level clump of bytes and not something which needs to be managed by the end user at a system level. That is also the reason why services like Box or DropBox are in danger of getting killed unless they can get acquired becoz this whole cloud storage business is an integrated feature of the platform - in this case the Mahdi was right when he said DropBox is a feature, nothing more. DropBox already lags behind integrated offerings like SkyDrive (and probably Google Drive) in terms of active users and the situation will just get worse despite Valley proponents harping about their innovation and pixie dust.