Indo-UK News and Discussion - April 2013

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 08 Jun 2013 07:41

"Burqa bandits", ha!ha!

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 08 Jun 2013 22:13

There is a novelty on British Propagasting Channel about finally doing something about Mau Mau genocides, after decades. Apparently less than 3000 pounds per head are offered to remaining old & infirm from Kenya, in a kind gesture from Brutistan, as a way to show kindness for survivors of genocide. The report already talks of how the old and infirm think it is 'insufficient' - thereby giving it legitimacy of controversy while details of genocide by Brutbarians are hardly mentioned.

Then it goes on to mention of former colonies are 'looking up' to Brutish, in a very kind tone.

Kindness of Brutbarians is of no consequences to Indians, however the Brutish are too twisted to not politicize and generate as numerous controversies as facets of barbaric colonialism. About 3k pounds offered per head, in any controversial way, may get a line of money catchers to start doing their routines and then controversies may be generated since how come Brutish not come out looking better. It is not like Indians invaded Brutish but still Brutish can make the most of even this by generating controversies as per barbaric colonialism. That way no one would talk of Brutbarism no? while Indians in general will get bad reputation any way.

A simple way to avoid the selective ugly drama reaching Indian shores is to count any Brutish killed by Indians defending motherland and throw that much pounds into Brutish treasury. Again, it is of no consequences and it is not that Indians invaded Brutish, but at less than 3k pound per head it is a cheap way to avoid selective drama that might be put up to hide Brutbarism of barbaric colonial times.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 09 Jun 2013 08:37

Book Reviews: After Thatcher

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 09 Jun 2013 22:11

Modi closer to becoming PM.British media reports,they can smell the chai brewing!

The Congress faces a desperately tough battle next year. Rising prices, a faltering economy and repeated corruption scandals have created widespread anger and dissatisfaction. Some analysts believe the Congress will struggle to secure 100 seats in the 543-seat parliament.

Right now the debate is raging on the news channels,with the myopic Congressmen trying to downplay Mr.Modi's meteoric rise in stature through his electoral victories as being the most powerful political figure in India today and possible future PM.They compare him with the Hamlet of the Congress party,Rahul G, "Prince of Indecision", a scaredy cat,as he appears to suffer from a lack confidence ,a-frightened to take up the yoke of leadership of his party especially in the face of so formidable an opponent like Mr.Modi.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 51092.html

Narendra Modi takes a crucial step closer to becoming Indian Prime Minster

Main opposition party announces country's most polarising politician will lead its election campaign – setting Modi up for a show-down with Rahul Gandhi

Andrew Buncombe
Sunday 09 June 201

Narendra Modi, India’s most polarising politician today took a crucial step closer to becoming the country’s prime minster when the main opposition party announced he will lead its election campaign – setting him up for a show-down with Rahul Gandhi.   

After weeks of speculation and internal battles, the right-wing Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), declared that the polarising Mr Modi will head the committee that will oversee the campaign, expected to take place next spring. While it did not officially announce him as its prime ministerial candidate, it would now be extremely difficult for anyone else to secure that role.

Mr Modi, the chief minister of the western state of Gujarat, is a deeply divisive figure, both within his own party and the wider country. In 2002, more than 1,000 people, the vast majority of them Muslims, were killed in a series of organised attacks in his state. While he has never been charged, some of his ministers have been jailed and Mr Modi has been widely condemned for at the very least doing insufficient to stop the massacres.

While grassroots members of the party are highly enthusiastic about him, many senior figures, among them party veteran, Lal Krishna Advani, believe his strident, authoritarian style and his association to the 2002 killings, will cost the party votes, especially among Muslims. Mr Advani was notable in his absence from the BJP’s meeting in Goa where the decision was announced.

“From now on, he is the face and the mascot of the party,” said Kanchan Gupta, a journalist and analyst who once worked in the office of BJP prime minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee. “The election committee strategises the party’s campaign so it stands to reason that the person heading that committee becomes the first among equals.”

Mr Modi’s appointment was announced following the three-day meeting by party president Rajnath Singh.

“The decision was unanimous. The entire party has faith in Modi. BJP considers the 2014 parliamentary elections to be a major challenge,” Mr Singh told reporters, according to the Associated Press. “We are confident that the BJP will be voted to power in 2014. We are determined to win.”

The announcement ends months of speculation and wrangling over Mr Modi. It also underscores the waning influence of Mr Advani, who was the BJP’s prime ministerial candidate in 2009 and who, even at the age of 85, apparently believed he might receive one more shot at the top job.

Mr Modi said on social media that he had spoken with Mr Advani and received his support. “I spoke to Advani on the phone. He gave me his blessings. Honoured and extremely grateful to receive his blessings,” he said.

In recent months Mr Modi’s transformation from a regional leader to a national figure, helped by a slick public relations campaign, gathered unstoppable momentum. He and his supporters promoted him as a corruption-free, business-friendly leader who is responsible for economic growth in his state, even though other social indicators, particularly among rural communities, remain very poor.

Last year, a number of Western countries, led by Britain and Sweden, ended a boycott of Gujarat that has been enforced after the 2002 killings. While officials said the wanted to reengage with the state rather than any one individual, the decision was widely seen as further anticipation of Mr Modi’s ascent.

Critics of Mr Modi, 62, accuse him pursuing a right-wing Hindu-dominated agenda. Fr Cedric Prakash, a Catholic priest and human rights activist from Gujarat, said he was not surprised by the BJP’s decision.

However, he said he believed the selection of Mr Modi would cause it to lose support. “Although he has been trying to change his spots, the ground reality remains the same,” he said. “I believe the people of India know better.”

Sunday’s announcement sets up Mr Modi for a clash of personalities, politics and styles with Rahul Gandhi, whose father, grand-mother and great grandfather all served as prime minister of India. The 42-year-old Mr Gandhi is currently deputy leader of the ruling Congress party, headed by his mother, Sonia Gandhi.

While it is unclear whether Mr Gandhi will be declared as the party’s candidate for prime minister ahead of the polls, he will be the most visible face of the campaign. Many within the party believe he is their only chance of winning reelection.

The Congress faces a desperately tough battle next year. Rising prices, a faltering economy and repeated corruption scandals have created widespread anger and dissatisfaction. Some analysts believe the Congress will struggle to secure 100 seats in the 543-seat parliament.

As it is, it is almost inconceivable either the Congress or the BJP could secure a simple majority.

Whichever party emerges as the winner will need to build a coalition with the country’s smaller and increasingly assertive regional parties, such as Nitish Kumar’s Janata Dal party in Bihar, Mamata Banerjee’s Trinamool Congress from West Bengal and Jayalalithaa Jayaram’s All India Anna Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam in the southern state of Tamil Nadu.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 12 Jun 2013 21:24

X-Post..

SSridhar wrote:India Disputes Pakistani Claim on Roerich Paintings - The Hindu
Legendary Russian artist Nicholas Roerich could not have imagined that two of his precious paintings would one day become a bone of contention between a Pakistani, who claims matinee idol Devika Rani gifted them to his grandfather Nazir Ahmed Khan, a known actor in the pre-Partition Hindi film industry, and the Indian government in a British court of law.

There are interesting twists and turns in this whole drama. The name of actor Devika Rani, daughter-in-law of Nicholas Roerich, cropped up and was used by Zahid Nazir to bolster his claim that the late actor had gifted Roerich’s two outstanding artistic impressions to his grandfather Nazir Ahmed Khan, who was brother-in-law of filmmaker K. Asif.

Indeed, Nazir Ahmed Khan worked in a number of Indian and Pakistani films. He was one of the first successful heroes in pre-Partition India and later migrated to the then newly formed Islamic country after his studio in Bombay was burnt down during the Partition riots.

Devika Rani was married to the famous Russian painter’s son Svetoslav Roerich and naturally as daughter-in-law of the famous artist she must have inherited his prized possessions – art works.

While there is a possibility that she may have gifted the two artistic impressions to actor Nazir Ahmed Khan, the two paintings titled “Himalaya Kanchenjunga” and “Sunset Kashmir” were the prized possessions of the Indian Agricultural Research Institute (IARI) on Pusa Road before they were stolen in 2009. Subsequently, the work of art landed up at auction house Sotheby’s.

Talking to The Hindu , a former Indian Council of Agricultural Research (ICAR) Secretary rubbished the Pakistani’s claim. “We cannot take Nazir’s claim that Roerich’s paintings had been lying at his Lahore house in seriousness because they were our property till they were stolen. Roerich Museum (St. Petersburg) director Krylov had seen the paintings at IARI in 1999 and Roerich Museum New York curator Tepsa had also testified that the paintings were the property of IARI.”

However, the IARI came to know about the disappearance of the two paintings when Sotheby’s sent a letter “either in 2010 or 2011 informing that it had verified from the Roerich Museum of New York that the two paintings indeed belonged to the IARI. But the IARI did not inform the ICAR. When we came to know through informal sources we jumped into action.”

To pursue the matter in all seriousness, a team comprising the CBI, IARI and ICAR went to the United Kingdom to meet lawyers and work out modalities to bring the national heritage back home. “The matter is in the British court even now. We are fighting the case,” says IARI Director H.S. Gupta. Each of the priceless treasure trove costs over £2 million.

In fact, a Delhi court recently asked the U.K. Home Department to allow the CBI to probe the case of Roerich’s paintings being stolen from the IARI and presented to a London auction house by a Pakistani and a British resident.

It came to the IARI’s notice that the two paintings were presented to Sotheby’s for auction by Zahid Nazir, a resident of Pakistan, and his father Rafay Nazir Khan, who lives in London.

After the matter came to the notice of Indian authorities, the attorney of Zahid Nazir and Rafay Nazir Khan wrote to the IARI Director on May 16, 2011, claiming that they were the owners and consignees of the two paintings. And the paintings have been in the family ownership since at least late 1960s or early 1970s and were kept at their family home in Lahore until they were shifted to Sotheby’s in 2010.
What a bunch of inveterate and unashamed liars, these Pakis.

The bigger problem is London is the clearing house for stolen goods. Its dispicable that British courts are willing to hear cases about stolen goods especially national treasures of other countries.

I guess they havent out grown the piracy heritage from Francis Drake.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 14 Jun 2013 15:58

Britain's future king Prince William has Indian heritage, DNA proves

LONDON: Prince William, second-in-line to the throne, will be first British king with proven Indian ancestry, DNA analysis has revealed.

The DNA analysis of saliva samples taken from the Duke of Cambridge's relatives have established a direct lineage between the 30-year-old prince and an Indian housekeeper on his mother Princess Diana's side.

It is his only non-European DNA and means he will become the first Head of the Commonwealth with a clear genetic link to its most populous nation - India.

William is now likely to be encouraged to make his debut mission to India soon after the birth of his baby next month.

Researchers have uncovered the details of his lineage via a doomed relationship of William's Indian great-great-great-great-great grandmother.

Eliza Kewark was housekeeper to Prince William's great grandfather Theodore Forbes (1788-1820), a Scottish merchant who worked for the East India Company in the port town of Surat in Gujarat.

Eliza's mtDNA was passed on by her daughters and granddaughters directly in an unbroken line to Princess Diana and then on to Prince William and Prince Harry.

Eliza is claimed to have been Armenian, possibly because her surname is rather like the Armenian name Kevork and letters from her to Forbes have been found which contain Armenian script.

This in turn suggests a degree of Armenian cultural heritage and the possibility that her father may have been of Armenian descent.

"But we believe that all the evidence we have gathered shows that her genetic heritage through her motherline is Indian," BritainsDNA, a DNA ancestry testing company, said in a release.

"Princes William and Harry carry Eliza Kewark's markers but will not pass this Indian mtDNA onto their children, as mtDNA is only passed from mother to child," it added.

Jim Wilson, a genetics expert at the University of Edinburgh and BritainsDNA who carried out the tests, said that Eliza's descendants had an incredibly rare type of mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA), inherited only from a mother.

It has so far been recorded in only 14 other people, 13 Indian and one Nepalese.

The revelation explains why the Scottish father of Eliza's children suddenly deserted her and sent their daughter, Katherine, to Britain at the age of 6.

Nothing new here i suppose,
The Bas**rdized nature of the Briturd Royal lineage is an open secret.

Only aspect to lookout for now is in 10years time - when the King comes to visit, which assorted RNIs in media will hail him as a returning King of the Indian people too.

Haresh · Post by **Haresh** » 14 Jun 2013 19:26

Indian NHS 'cancer specialist' recruited via Skype was so incompetent he had expertise of a first year university medical student

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z2WCU0mIfw

Haresh · Post by **Haresh** » 14 Jun 2013 19:37

Britain ignored warnings of Indian whistleblower at heart of drugs scandal

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... andal.html

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 14 Jun 2013 20:39

Somewhat like a hit job against Indian drugmakers. When negotiations of the company Ranbaxy were going on, such rumors started coming out-that would have affected the deal too. After the sale was over now these reports are coming out. One by one various countries to which Ranbaxy supplied drugs are making allegations now but not when such rumors did start. So in this report why is no idea given from Ranbaxy.

An interview here link, link.
More info - link.
Notice how the headline is too generic, and comes from a perspective of a whistleblower along with generic terms like scandal, India etc

Anantha · Post by **Anantha** » 15 Jun 2013 06:23

vishvak wrote:Somewhat like a hit job against Indian drugmakers. When negotiations of the company Ranbaxy were going on, such rumors started coming out-that would have affected the deal too. After the sale was over now these reports are coming out. One by one various countries to which Ranbaxy supplied drugs are making allegations now but not when such rumors did start. So in this report why is no idea given from Ranbaxy.

An interview here link, link.
More info - link.
Notice how the headline is too generic, and comes from a perspective of a whistleblower along with generic terms like scandal, India etc

Vishwak,
As a Pharma executive, I have first hand info on several of the Indian companies. Ranbaxy is a rogue company selling (even today) adulterated/fake drugs all over the world including US and India. If anything, we need to ruthlessly oppose these rogue companies to regain respect for honest Indian companies like Reddy's and Torrent and other intelligent pharma scientists of India. If you have any doubts check the warning letters/483 reports issued by FDA since 2006(available online) to Ranbaxy vs clean image of some other companies. I for one will not touch medicines made by Ranbaxy and a a few other Indian companies. Just think this way, when the country is corrupt from PM to cabinet ministers, why should one expect pharma companies/doctors to be honest like Harishchandra?
Daichi knew about the problems at Ranbaxy when they bid for it. Most high level professionals in the industry knew about Ranbaxy problems. How does it absolve Ranbaxy for all the violations that they have done for the last 10-12 years. If you know any mid level manager who worked for Ranbaxy they will tell you how Ranbaxy made its drugs. The question to ask ourselves is, are Indian scientists that dumb that they have to manipulate data to make drugs viable? Ranbaxy was actively pressuring its managers to fix data.

arun · Post by **arun** » 17 Jun 2013 21:29

UK Newspaper The Guardian reveals that the UK Government spied on foreign delegations invited to two G-20 Summit in London in 2009. Indian delegations were present at these G-20 meetings and the delegation for one of them was headed by our Prime Minister Dr. Manmohan Singh:

GCHQ intercepted foreign politicians' communications at G20 summits

vinod · Post by **vinod** » 18 Jun 2013 16:49

Anantha wrote: Vishwak,
As a Pharma executive, I have first hand info on several of the Indian companies. Ranbaxy is a rogue company selling (even today) adulterated/fake drugs all over the world including US and India. If anything, we need to ruthlessly oppose these rogue companies to regain respect for honest Indian companies like Reddy's and Torrent and other intelligent pharma scientists of India. If you have any doubts check the warning letters/483 reports issued by FDA since 2006(available online) to Ranbaxy vs clean image of some other companies. I for one will not touch medicines made by Ranbaxy and a a few other Indian companies. Just think this way, when the country is corrupt from PM to cabinet ministers, why should one expect pharma companies/doctors to be honest like Harishchandra?
Daichi knew about the problems at Ranbaxy when they bid for it. Most high level professionals in the industry knew about Ranbaxy problems. How does it absolve Ranbaxy for all the violations that they have done for the last 10-12 years. If you know any mid level manager who worked for Ranbaxy they will tell you how Ranbaxy made its drugs. The question to ask ourselves is, are Indian scientists that dumb that they have to manipulate data to make drugs viable? Ranbaxy was actively pressuring its managers to fix data.

All these accusations can be equally made against western pharma firms. The pharma industry is a multi-billion dollar industry and western companies are losing their blockbuster patents and being challenged by many Indian pharma companies. The mistakes in our pharma industry is exaggerated to malign and thus bring these compaies to their will and continue the western domination. So, my argument is, correct the mistakes and move on.

rsingh · Post by **rsingh** » 19 Jun 2013 22:23

arun wrote:UK Newspaper The Guardian reveals that the UK Government spied on foreign delegations invited to two G-20 Summit in London in 2009. Indian delegations were present at these G-20 meetings and the delegation for one of them was headed by our Prime Minister Dr. Manmohan Singh:

GCHQ intercepted foreign politicians' communications at G20 summits

Yaah and Ruskie, Indian, Chinese and Brazilians were that dumb that they happily used compromised pc in internet caffe. Whom they are trying to fool?

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 24 Jun 2013 01:55

x-post

The Trouble Within Islam: Tony Blair

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 24 Jun 2013 03:22

arun wrote:UK Newspaper The Guardian reveals that the UK Government spied on foreign delegations invited to two G-20 Summit in London in 2009. Indian delegations were present at these G-20 meetings and the delegation for one of them was headed by our Prime Minister Dr. Manmohan Singh:

GCHQ intercepted foreign politicians' communications at G20 summits

But UK gov is constrained by law to act within British law - always and in every situation - and therefore it always acts legally. It is helpless to deny that law - so whatever it has done, must be legal by British law. If it is legal why is the media or anyone complaining? Maybe there was a law that directed the gov agencies to spy , and being strictly law abiding - the agencies could not but spy.

vinod · Post by **vinod** » 24 Jun 2013 14:22

Churchill Myth busting
http://vadakkus.com/2013/06/20/winston- ... ependence/

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 25 Jun 2013 04:09

A British act of unfriendliness

New Delhi must respond to Britain’s discriminatory visa regime.

The British government has included India in a list of ‘high risk’ countries whose citizens will have to post a bond of £3000 (around Rs 275,000) when they apply for a six-month visa. The bond will be fully repaid when the visa-holder leaves Britain, but forfeited in cases of overstay and deportation. It will will apply to highest risk visitors and not to all visitors from the selected countries (LT Sachin Kalbag). The new visa policy is consistent with the Conservative government’s policy to reduce immigration.

How Britain designs its immigration and visa policies is entirely its prerogative, just as it is India’s prerogative to interpret the steep visa bond as an unfriendly act. David Cameron’s homilies for stronger ties with India’s are effectively pointless if Britain discriminates against ordinary Indians. Perhaps the British government has good reason to place India in a ‘high risk’ category as far as immigration is concerned. But then, if you desire strong, strategic ties with another state but see that country’s citizens as ‘high risk’ immigrants, then you are trying to have your tandoori naan and eat it too.

If the British government discriminates against Indian citizens—whatever the reason—then it must bear the geopolitical costs of doing so. New Delhi must review the scope and tenor of India’s relations with Britain. The first thing to discard is pretence. The biggest pretence and pretension is the absurd, anachronistic entity called the Commonwealth. What good is membership of the Commonwealth if the ostensible ‘leader’ of the grouping treats non-members more favourably than members? As this blogger has argued before, India must quit the Commonwealth. Some Indian diplomats will be deprived of lucrative offices, but it’s time bureaucratic interests are overruled by political ones. India’s scarce diplomatic capacity is wasted on the pointless pomposity of the Commonwealth.

It is unfathomable why the Indian government still accepts aid from its British counterpart. We don’t need it. Foreign aid only encourages fiscal irresponsibility in India.

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 25 Jun 2013 14:17

Agnimitra wrote:A British act of unfriendliness
New Delhi must respond to Britain’s discriminatory visa regime.

The British government has included India in a list of ‘high risk’ countries whose citizens will have to post a bond of £3000 (around Rs 275,000) when they apply for a six-month visa. The bond will be fully repaid when the visa-holder leaves Britain, but forfeited in cases of overstay and deportation. It will will apply to highest risk visitors and not to all visitors from the selected countries (LT Sachin Kalbag). The new visa policy is consistent with the Conservative government’s policy to reduce immigration.

How Britain designs its immigration and visa policies is entirely its prerogative, just as it is India’s prerogative to interpret the steep visa bond as an unfriendly act. David Cameron’s homilies for stronger ties with India’s are effectively pointless if Britain discriminates against ordinary Indians. Perhaps the British government has good reason to place India in a ‘high risk’ category as far as immigration is concerned. But then, if you desire strong, strategic ties with another state but see that country’s citizens as ‘high risk’ immigrants, then you are trying to have your tandoori naan and eat it too.

If the British government discriminates against Indian citizens—whatever the reason—then it must bear the geopolitical costs of doing so. New Delhi must review the scope and tenor of India’s relations with Britain. The first thing to discard is pretence. The biggest pretence and pretension is the absurd, anachronistic entity called the Commonwealth. What good is membership of the Commonwealth if the ostensible ‘leader’ of the grouping treats non-members more favourably than members? As this blogger has argued before, India must quit the Commonwealth. Some Indian diplomats will be deprived of lucrative offices, but it’s time bureaucratic interests are overruled by political ones. India’s scarce diplomatic capacity is wasted on the pointless pomposity of the Commonwealth.

It is unfathomable why the Indian government still accepts aid from its British counterpart. We don’t need it. Foreign aid only encourages fiscal irresponsibility in India.

This is just my opinion.
The commonwealth is an insult. Indirectly it projects an image of an benevolent Britain. We should quit it. I am willing to bet Rs.100 that many nations will follow if India does.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 25 Jun 2013 15:33

What are the supposed benefits of belonging to the "Commonwealth of Nations" (besides the obvious reminder that you once were ruled by a tiny nation of pasty-faced unwashed hooligans with bad teeth)?

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 25 Jun 2013 15:36

commonwealth has passed its sell by date - unless it turns into a 'friends of india' club

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 25 Jun 2013 15:43

Lalmohan wrote:commonwealth has passed its sell by date - unless it turns into a 'friends of india' club

Commonwealth club should be reduced to a club of three (England, Australia, Canada). Well, maybe not Australia.

Haresh · Post by **Haresh** » 25 Jun 2013 15:54

"What are the supposed benefits of belonging to the "Commonwealth of Nations" (besides the obvious reminder that you once were ruled by a tiny nation of pasty-faced unwashed hooligans with bad teeth)?"

That my friends sums it up.
The commonwealth is a reminder to the Brits that they once had an empire and all the darkies are so greatful that they were civilised and ruled over by the brits that they have joined this club.

As someone once said about the commonwealth (I think it was Norman Tebbit)
"It has nothing in Common and no wealth"

I agree with the first part, but why should the wealth be shared with those who wish us harm, the Uk is not benevolent.
How many paki/islamic terror groups fund raise in the UK?
India should set up an alternative group.

I cannot understand the logic in doing business with people who hate you.

Haresh · Post by **Haresh** » 25 Jun 2013 16:45

Foreign aid is an investment in our future

"Yet our international development policies are not about soft-hearted altruism. They are a clear and hard-headed means of promoting our own security and prosperity, and are a valuable investment in Britain’s future."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... uture.html

JwalaMukhi · Post by **JwalaMukhi** » 25 Jun 2013 17:26

Haresh wrote:"What are the supposed benefits of belonging to the "Commonwealth of Nations" (besides the obvious reminder that you ~~once were ruled by~~ once were subjugated and frogmarched by slave taking thieves (minor correction)of a tiny nation of pasty-faced unwashed hooligans with bad teeth)?"

Well, it serves the bar low for any follow on administrations (no not rulers - only allah knows he can be ruler of the duniya) to beat that abysmal saga. So, it helps a bunch of administrations that followed them to look like stellar performers, apart from retention of channels for the thugs on either side of the source and sink.

A conduit for thieves who ride the gravy train principally located in and around the place/s where the decadent rollers congregate.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 26 Jun 2013 01:30

JwalaMukhi wrote:
Haresh wrote:"What are the supposed benefits of belonging to the "Commonwealth of Nations" (besides the obvious reminder that you ~~once were ruled by~~ once were subjugated and frogmarched by slave taking thieves and mass murderers (minor correction)of a tiny nation of pasty-faced unwashed hooligans with bad teeth)?"
Well, it serves the bar low for any follow on administrations (no not rulers - only allah knows he can be ruler of the duniya) to beat that abysmal saga. So, it helps a bunch of administrations that followed them to look like stellar performers, apart from retention of channels for the thugs on either side of the source and sink.

A conduit for thieves who ride the gravy train principally located in and around the place/s where the decadent rollers congregate.

Sir, one more teeny weeny addition from me (especially since by older bongo brethren were impacted)

Abhijeet · Post by **Abhijeet** » 27 Jun 2013 14:26

Can UK-based posters comment on how the visa bond issue is being seen there? Is it being talked about at all in mainstream media or within the Indian community? Are there any plans to mobilize the community around the issue?

On the face of it it seems an outrageous imposition.

vinod · Post by **vinod** » 27 Jun 2013 16:30

Of course, its outrageous. I don't think anybody likes it. I have seen few articles stating why it won't work and its bad for business.

Whether any mobilization going on - not too sure. I guess UK govt expects some grumblings and I think they will nod their head in sympathy and then impose it anyway. They need to be seen doing something against immigration, eventhough EE immigration is THE biggest problem and they can't do a thing about it since they are part of the EU. Hence the reason for targetting non-EU citizens.

Many other than Indians are also affected by their immigration rules. Some use workarounds like the "Surinder Singh Loophole"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23029195

Abhijeet · Post by **Abhijeet** » 27 Jun 2013 23:14

Incredible story. So even if someone is married to a British citizen, they will not be allowed into Britain unless their spouse earns more than a specific amount. Could the rules be more unfriendly?

Specifically with regard to the bond issue, I always thought the Indian community in the UK was too rich and influential to be lumped with other basket case countries, but I guess that's not the case.

jagga · Post by **jagga** » 27 Jun 2013 23:34

Abhijeet Ji,

I live in UK and I always get the feeling that most NRI's (specially who settled in UK anytime before early nineties), are in shock and awe of gora's. For them white man's words are words of god. Most of them view the newly arrived from India with great contempt. They are truly UK based brown sahib's.
Anyways my personal opinion,TIFWIW.

JwalaMukhi · Post by **JwalaMukhi** » 28 Jun 2013 03:54

Abhijeet wrote: Specifically with regard to the bond issue, I always thought the Indian community in the UK was too rich and influential to be lumped with other basket case countries, but I guess that's not the case.

Exact similar utterings were poured by his excellency Mahatma Gandhi, eons ago, " how come indians are lumped together with the unwashed kaffirs -africans". Expressed outrage because racism was not correctly applied, while happy to condone the institutional racism of these chaps.

Looks like there is no change in understanding of a sorry island which has always been a champion of institutional racism, that has punched above its weight and consistently misguided even the current superpower. But have to hand it to the image management that ukstanis are capable of.

Always wise to not judge a book by its cover or in the case of football hooligans by stiff upperlips.

jagga wrote:Abhijeet Ji,
I live in UK and I always get the feeling that most NRI's (specially who settled in UK anytime before early nineties), are in shock and awe of gora's. For them white man's words are words of god. Most of them view the newly arrived from India with great contempt. They are truly UK based brown sahib's.
Anyways my personal opinion,TIFWIW.

Well said and correctly understood the ukstani charm offensive and how it deludes the gora worshippers.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 28 Jun 2013 04:11

^^^ To add to the above, I think the people of color who are *NOT* in awe of the gori chamdi would be severely punished in indirect ways (no job offer, no plum posting in a high profile think tank etc).

For example, here is someone I consider a 1st class gungadeen tweeting about Will Darlympyle's brazen attempt to get accepted into American Think tanks:

https://twitter.com/soutik/status/349506516904181761

@DalrympleWill's riveting piece on why #Pakistan& #India shud see #Afghanistan's instability as 'a common challenge' http://bit.ly/11EjkVv

If these kinds of Gungadeens are the ones influencing policy in UK, then its nothing surprising.

Also I had a huge twitter war with two other boot lickers, Salil Tripathy and one Pranjal Sharma who, just as a gungadeen would, turned the issue on its head and turned it into a "blame the native game" by calling out Indian "racism"

http://www.businessworld.in/en/storypag ... 540/page/0

More here:
https://twitter.com/shudntbehere/status ... 5223632898

JwalaMukhi · Post by **JwalaMukhi** » 28 Jun 2013 04:37

LokeshC wrote: More here:
https://twitter.com/shudntbehere/status ... 5223632898

Well done. Admire the tact you have there. Yes sir, it is fun to take on Gungadins. But must have to do the needful. Please continue the good work.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 28 Jun 2013 05:31

From the twitter link LokeshC ji has posted (I quote)

Salil Tripathi ‏@saliltripathi 26 Jun
@shudntbehere If Indian racism had the chance, would it not have done the same? @pranjalsharma

The answer is no. To start with "Indian racism" is an oxymoron which makes sense only to the racist British.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 28 Jun 2013 05:37

^^^ yes, there is bias and prejudice in every society. Racism is a form of it, and you are right that the kind of prejudice that does exist in Indian society is in no way or form comparable to the Briturd understanding of racism. In that view "Indian racism" is indeed a false construct, essentially a straw man to beat the Indians. Another weapon of choice among both Gungadeens and Briturds alike.

The same fallacy exists in equating Hindu religious identity with the identity towards Abrahamic faith/cults. Abrahamic religions are essentially cults where identity and othering is strong (to use Ramanaji's language, group identity in Abrahamic faith is at a reptilian level, while in Hinduism it is at the Cerebral level). However Hinduism is nothing like it, not even close. So radical atheism, leftism etc which were born in Abhrahamic tyranny are in reality incompatible tools to reform Hinduism (which is the goal of many leftists). Again, they are chasing a mirage. The reason why they still exists is because they speak in a language that the west understands. Unsurprisingly, the most bigoted leftists in India are friends with the most bigoted right wingers in the West. I used to wonder why. But I guess I am pretty sure I know now.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 28 Jun 2013 05:55

I posit that most of current day Indian complexes and quite a few social evils - dowry, worship of berang chmada, high-brow vs. low-brow culture - can be traced back to the rigid British social structure. My guess is that it is very difficult to move up the social ladder in UK than in the former colonies.

There was a strange news item which I forgot to bookmark whose gist was something like British authorities were playing classical music through the loudspeakers at public places to dissuade loiters of lower strata to congregate at these places as there was evidence of people of this "ilk" (reporter's words) have little cultural capital who would avoid "high-brow" culture. Very reminiscent of Anthony Burgess phrase "go suck a lemon" in Clockwork Orange.

Abhijeet · Post by **Abhijeet** » 28 Jun 2013 12:38

JwalaMukhi wrote:Exact similar utterings were poured by his excellency Mahatma Gandhi, eons ago, " how come indians are lumped together with the unwashed kaffirs -africans". Expressed outrage because racism was not correctly applied, while happy to condone the institutional racism of these chaps.

Looks like there is no change in understanding of a sorry island which has always been a champion of institutional racism...etc etc

Get a hold of yourself. While you may be perfectly ok being treated the same as Pakistanis and Bangladeshis, most Indians in the UK are unlikely to be, and for good reason. Indians can and should demand better treatment than our friendly neighborhood basket cases wherever they can.

This whole "solidarity of the underdeveloped" as expressed by such toothless organizations like NAM and SAARC is a lost cause, and best forgotten as quickly as possible.

Indians in general should make no apology about narrowly focusing on their own self interest. Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nigeria etc can take care of themselves -- we should focus (as more evolved countries do) on the rights of our citizens anywhere in the world.

It's unfortunate that this needs to be explicitly spelled out on a forum like BR.

lakshmikanth · Post by **lakshmikanth** » 28 Jun 2013 12:53

Abhijeet wrote:
JwalaMukhi wrote:Exact similar utterings were poured by his excellency Mahatma Gandhi, eons ago, " how come indians are lumped together with the unwashed kaffirs -africans". Expressed outrage because racism was not correctly applied, while happy to condone the institutional racism of these chaps.

Looks like there is no change in understanding of a sorry island which has always been a champion of institutional racism...etc etc
Get a hold of yourself. While you may be perfectly ok being treated the same as Pakistanis and Bangladeshis, most Indians in the UK are unlikely to be, and for good reason. Indians can and should demand better treatment than our friendly neighborhood basket cases wherever they can.

This whole "solidarity of the underdeveloped" as expressed by such toothless organizations like NAM and SAARC is a lost cause, and best forgotten as quickly as possible.

Indians in general should make no apology about narrowly focusing on their own self interest. Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nigeria etc can take care of themselves -- we should focus (as more evolved countries do) on the rights of our citizens anywhere in the world.

It's unfortunate that this needs to be explicitly spelled out on a forum like BR.

Abhijeetji,

I am afraid you missed the point slightly

. What is being spelled out on the forum is that Briturds are racists, and this (i.e. "safety deposit" business) is just an expression of the racism. That much is very clear to most post-colonial Indians.

However for the DIE, Gungadeens and assorted pre-colonial Indians, they are confused on why their white master (who is pure as snow, and is never wrong) has refused to look at how "good" we Indians are despite our skin color. This causes what shivji used to mention : Cognitive Dissonance.

The response to Cognitive Dissonance is usually delusion in the form a conspiracy theory or some other perverse delusional justification on why the white briturds decided to do this. Every delusional justification is welcome (EXCEPT for the real reason, which is that the turds are racists).

One such perverse delusional justification was posted above. He "agreed" that it was discriminatory (which is a BIG step for a gungadeen) but then went on to "justify" it saying "we brown savages are not better off because we are racists and thus hypocrites". i.e. He provides a reason for not blaming his white master, as the white master has punished our hypocricy and racism. Hence the status quo is maintained, all is well with the world.

Status Quo is: white master being pure as snow and never wrong while us brown folks being savages.

Every time the west or the turds come up with something that upsets this balance, and do evil disgusting thing like racism, mass murder, illegal war etc, it upsets Gugadeens world. He knows in some corner of his brain that its wrong, but he is trained to believe that the west/turds are always right.

How do you bring it back to balance? Delusions are one way, CTs are other. The third one is turning inwards and blaming ourselves for being savages that we are portrayed to be. Once Gungadeen chooses his method of coping, he then vigorously tries to sell it using whatever media he can get his hands on. It is a means of relief for him, since he found a way to correct the internal imbalance caused by the situation.

For the gora admi, a gungadeen is a useful idiot. A willing slave. A robot that will do everything he/she wants it to do. Hence everytime you see evil perpetrated by the west, you will see an army of Gungadeens publishing their delusions on why its justified.

This is an obvious pattern to me now, so I just yawn and never get into fights online or offline. I just let them be delusional.

Abhijeet · Post by **Abhijeet** » 28 Jun 2013 13:14

Au contraire, I believe it's you who are missing the point. (I'm sure we could do this all day.)

I'll spell it out more clearly, although I'm not sure what's controversial here.

It's a trivial statement to say that the British are racist and have screwed over India in a major way. Yes and yes.

However, that doesn't stop tens (hundreds?) of thousands of Indians from visiting or immigrating there each year. They unfortunately don't have the privilege of being snooty because they've escaped to another first world country like some posters here.

We should look out for the rights of our citizens first and foremost. This means that any laws that discriminate against Indian citizens need to be pushed back against. Indians need feel no obligation to fight side by side with other countries being discriminated against.

This whole thing about Gungadeens, colonial masters etc is boring old strawmanning which you can find another opponent for, thanks.

lakshmikanth · Post by **lakshmikanth** » 28 Jun 2013 13:21

^^^ I dont think there is anyone arguing with "Indians should look after ourselves as a special group and not group ourselves into something like 'south asians'". I dont think anyone in the forum implied that. What is being implied is that it is no surprise that turds are behaving like turds and treating all browns (indians included) as inferior. Either that or this whole debate is beyond my comprehension.

Anyway. You have a good day. I think we can stop this here, no interest in arguing (or debating) the obvious.

Abhijeet · Post by **Abhijeet** » 28 Jun 2013 13:25

Gah. Ask a simple question like "What are UK Indians doing to fight against this discriminatory law", and you get jumped on by a bunch of self-righteous simpletons who will drown out any discussion with cries of "Briturd", "Gungadeen", "cognitive dissonance" and other thoughtless soundbites.

I'll repeat my original questions with the hope of getting more information from people in the UK:

Can UK-based posters comment on how the visa bond issue is being seen there? Is it being talked about at all in mainstream media or within the Indian community? Are there any plans to mobilize the community around the issue?