LCA News and Discussions

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 22 Jun 2013 10:42

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CO5fMOpoTnk
Any possibilities in the near future to think about hose and drogue system for LCA++? pros/cons?

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 22 Jun 2013 11:42

putnanja wrote:Flight test update

From

LCA-Tejas has completed 2206 Test Flights Successfully. (15-June-2013).
(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-222,PV3-365,LSP1-74,LSP2-273,PV5-36,LSP3-138,LSP4-82,LSP5-180,LSP7-44,NP1-4,LSP8-8)

To
LCA-Tejas has completed 2208 Test Flights Successfully. (18-June-2013).
(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-222,PV3-365,LSP1-74,LSP2-273,PV5-36,LSP3-138,LSP4-82,LSP5-180,LSP7-45,NP1-4,LSP8-9)

LCA-Tejas has completed 2219 Test Flights Successfully. (21-June-2013).
• (TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-222,PV3-365,LSP1-74,LSP2-273,PV5-36,LSP3-140,LSP4-84,LSP5-184,LSP7-45,NP1-4,LSP8-12)

Three days and 11 flights! Its rocking closer to IOC-2

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 22 Jun 2013 11:45

importantly more A/Cs are being used

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 22 Jun 2013 13:16

SaiK wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CO5fMOpoTnk
Any possibilities in the near future to think about hose and drogue system for LCA++? pros/cons?

thats not the system used by IAF and IN

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 22 Jun 2013 19:39

To what do we attribute this sudden spurt in test flights?

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 22 Jun 2013 22:52

^^^^

Maybe Avinash Chander lit the HAL's management afterburners.

Such Khujli works.

But jokes aside, It now seems that they are attempting to reach IOC-2 by Sept'13

PS: Note the use of the term Management. Not to dishearten the Indian brave hearts trying to do good. Slogging away with patriotic fervour.

Krishnakg · Post by **Krishnakg** » 24 Jun 2013 08:55

Insight into development process of LCA, Avionics and Weapons System (AWS) mission computer software.

http://www.bitsoftsystems.com/mydocs/Av ... 0Study.pdf

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 24 Jun 2013 13:32

Flight test update

From

LCA-Tejas has completed 2225 Test Flights Successfully. (21-June-2013).
(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-222,PV3-365,LSP1-74,LSP2-273,PV5-36,LSP3-141,LSP4-85,LSP5-186,LSP7-46,NP1-4,LSP8-13)

to

LCA-Tejas has completed 2228 Test Flights Successfully. (24-June-2013).
(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-222,PV3-365,LSP1-74,LSP2-273,PV5-36,LSP3-142,LSP4-85,LSP5-187,LSP7-47,NP1-4,LSP8-13)

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 24 Jun 2013 13:50

21 jun ??? or you forgot to change the date ??

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 24 Jun 2013 13:55

Nopes ADA site doesnt have the date updated, it might be 23rd june

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 24 Jun 2013 13:58

maybe they carried out addl flights on 21st

karan_mc · Post by **karan_mc** » 24 Jun 2013 14:34

Defence minister to review long-delayed LCA project today

Acceleration in flight test might be due Defence minister

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 24 Jun 2013 18:07

The product life cycle process should perhaps guide the schedule rather an administrative crisis management reactive methods.

Periodic inspections and divide by conquer techniques are well known.. It is important we consider all stake-holders with high consideration to satisfy needs, which includes completed product for use.

Normally slippage (actual thing that caused delay) happens early, but sadly only detected at review times like this. We can't stop it, but only make it well known if we are ignorant and do not take it from a future in mind.

Pranay · Post by **Pranay** » 24 Jun 2013 20:50

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 746401.cms

Worried over the long delay in the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) project, defence minister A K Antony on Monday asked DRDO and HAL to avoid further time slippage and stick to the schedule of achieving final clearance for the indigenous plane by the end of next year.

In a meeting to review the programme, it was decided that efforts would be made by all the stakeholders to attain the Initial Operational Clearance (IOC-2) of the aircraft by November this year and its Final Operational Clearance (FOC) by the end of 2014.

"The defence minister stressed upon the necessity to stick to the schedule and for concerted efforts on the part of all stake holders for avoiding further slippage in the programme," defence ministry officials said here.

Asking Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) to make the project "number one thrust area", the meeting decided that Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) would ramp up its production capacity to 16 aircraft per year.

The high-level meeting was attended by National Security Adviser Shivshankar Menon, Defence Secretary R K Mathur, IAF chief NAK Browne, DRDO chief Avinash Chander and LCA Programme Director P Subramaniam.

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 24 Jun 2013 22:52

if you see the ramp-up of test flights, it started before the reported date of AKA's intervention.

Samudragupta · Post by **Samudragupta** » 25 Jun 2013 00:00

Why this sudden emergency with LCA? IS India expecting a war in the immediate future....Why NSA will be part of a tecno-political meeting?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 25 Jun 2013 00:13

^that is a narrow view to the use of the technology and capability. there are other things in terms of project schedule itself, and the irritants that I said has happened much much back ago, and you all kept quite. The big honchos kept quite, because we are either re-inventing the wheels, or patching up with a given set of technology baseline.

In the meanwhile, multiple story points and spikes happened from the user IAF, from T:W, engines, capabilities, and there is LCA Mk-2 for that. So, the reason to hurry up is not just for the war perspective, but to have a finish point on tasks, stories, etc, and move on to the next version of mk-2, mk-3 etc.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 25 Jun 2013 00:18

Samudragupta wrote:Why this sudden emergency with LCA? IS India expecting a war in the immediate future....Why NSA will be part of a tecno-political meeting?

Global economy will drastically change and suddenly in the next few years. This will change the global arms market and currency worldwide. There will be 'shock' to many nations. Those countries which have in country production for most of the defence products (100% including screws and nuts) will be able to face the situation

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 25 Jun 2013 06:27

Didn't anyone notice the supposed increase in LCA production rates from a max of 12 per year to 16 per year? That's nearly a full squadron per year, if HAL manages to achieve it. Good news.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 25 Jun 2013 06:43

good noting.. does that mean they are providing more funds? concurrent engineering production setup?

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 25 Jun 2013 11:05

Flight test update

From

LCA-Tejas has completed 2225 Test Flights Successfully. (21-June-2013).
(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-222,PV3-365,LSP1-74,LSP2-273,PV5-36,LSP3-141,LSP4-85,LSP5-186,LSP7-46,NP1-4,LSP8-13)

to

LCA-Tejas has completed 2228 Test Flights Successfully. (24-June-2013).
(TD1-233,TD2-305,PV1-242,PV2-222,PV3-365,LSP1-74,LSP2-273,PV5-36,LSP3-142,LSP4-85,LSP5-187,LSP7-47,NP1-4,LSP8-13)

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 25 Jun 2013 11:21

rafale & scorpene issue is tip of iceberg. lord alone knows what so called 5th ucavs and missiles will cost if someone has to import such top tier items.
writing is on wall - from pistols or icbms we need to start making everything from screws upward , because 'certified' screws will cost $100 - each in the future as mil ind complexes struggle to survive with funding cuts.

people talk of billion$$ these days like pocket money. billion$$ can build a lot of good stuff in-house.

if you look at china - other than engine tech and some high end sensor/avionics, they have achieved a broad control of the situation and are working hard to attain closure on all fronts by 2025 to be a self-sufficient 'great power'

RKumar · Post by **RKumar** » 25 Jun 2013 13:43

Kartik wrote:Didn't anyone notice the supposed increase in LCA production rates from a max of 12 per year to 16 per year? That's nearly a full squadron per year, if HAL manages to achieve it. Good news.

It will be doubled ... orginal plan was for 8 planes a year

MN Kumar · Post by **MN Kumar** » 25 Jun 2013 15:25

Saw an LCA & a Jag in yellow primer today

.

Merril · Post by **Merril** » 25 Jun 2013 16:40

MN Kumar wrote:Saw an LCA & a Jag in yellow primer today .

So did I. The LCA followed by the Jag both landing right over my head

I wonder which LCA is now on yellow primer?? I wonder more about which jag and why? Curiouser and curiouser ...

nash · Post by **nash** » 25 Jun 2013 17:04

MN Kumar wrote:Saw an LCA & a Jag in yellow primer today .

Bangalore is cloudy whole day, does that mean now LCA has all weather capability ?

Gurneesh · Post by **Gurneesh** » 25 Jun 2013 21:23

Merril wrote:
MN Kumar wrote:Saw an LCA & a Jag in yellow primer today .
So did I. The LCA followed by the Jag both landing right over my head

I wonder which LCA is now on yellow primer?? I wonder more about which jag and why? Curiouser and curiouser ...

Yellow LCA !!! Could be any of four things (in the order of likelihood)..

1) an old LCA being upgraded to LSP8 standard and repainted.

2) LSP 8 has still not received it's share of grey paint.

3) LSP6 makes anonymous first flight.

4) SP-1 makes early first flight.

Anyways, it is good to see increased momentum of flight testing. Now ADA should quickly transfer LSP 7 and 8 to IAF pilots so that they can start the process of operationalizing the LCA.

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 25 Jun 2013 22:03

RKumar wrote:
Kartik wrote:Didn't anyone notice the supposed increase in LCA production rates from a max of 12 per year to 16 per year? That's nearly a full squadron per year, if HAL manages to achieve it. Good news.
It will be doubled ... orginal plan was for 8 planes a year

Still too little, be bumped up to 40-50.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 25 Jun 2013 23:08

abhik wrote:
RKumar wrote:
It will be doubled ... orginal plan was for 8 planes a year
Still too little, be bumped up to 40-50.

40-50 per year? How many LCAs are on order to bump up production rate to 40-50 per year??

V_Raman · Post by **V_Raman** » 26 Jun 2013 00:09

I think tech has advanced to a point where exports may not be possible. UCAVs will be exported -- Seriously? Indigenous production is the only way.

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 26 Jun 2013 00:18

putnanja wrote: 40-50 per year? How many LCAs are on order to bump up production rate to 40-50 per year??

Obviously with a corresponding bump in total numbers. AFAIK current plans calls for a total of ~180 only, thats Mk1+Mk2 and IAF + IN. Thats significantly less the the MKI on order(270) and about the same as the MRCA(189 assuming options are exercised). Considering that it is the lower end fighter plus it is indigenous one would assume it would be acquired in greater numbers that the heavier fighters. Also because of the delays in the LCA development it won't be in production as long. With the current rate it might become another Marut.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 26 Jun 2013 01:22

Obviously with a corresponding bump in total numbers ..................

They would want to move to the AMCA too.

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 26 Jun 2013 01:31

We followed this line of discussion in favour of HAL and separately in favour of the IAF.
For HAL:

economy of scale with larger orders,
IAF as a constructive partner, not as a difficult customer,
lack of private industry ecosystem to quickly supply necessary components,
larger budgets by curtailing imports, etc.

For IAF:

Better project management by HAL - not leaving the creation of production facilities till the very last moment,
HAL as a vendor that meets delivery commitments and timelines,
Building confidence with LCA Mk-1 after IOC-2 before committing to further orders for Mk-1, OR
Building confidence with LCA Mk-2 before committing to further orders for Mk-2,
Immunity to the monsoon season with redundancy in test location,
LCA being insufficient to handle the threat spectrum, especially with Chinese aircraft painted black, etc.

I'm not sure there is much point in thrashing this any further. My own beliefs on the above are immaterial but I think all should agree that the LCA Mk-1 needs to be over and done with. The sooner the better. I'm glad that so many people have their eyes on this now.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 26 Jun 2013 04:04

I suspect that the major reason for the LCA acceleration is sheer embarresment at the speed at which ADA / DRDO is doing things with the LCA.

The Chinese are building their 2nd 5th Gen fighter, the US their 2nd 5th Gen fighter, Russia has their first 5th gen fighter.
If the LCA is not accelerated, there is a risk that all those programs will come to fruition before the LCA met its FOC!

Seriously, our government owned organizations are capable of glacial speed sometimes - mainly due to a very long and arduous chain starting at the MoD secretariat in Nai Dilli. THAT red tape paradise is where the delays originate and are perpetuated, NOT at Bangalore.

Now Raksha Mantri is really pushing the bangalore team, I hope he will devote about half his energies at the babooze in Nai Dilli - a snake pit where no one dare venture into.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 26 Jun 2013 04:42

So, we all know how to speed up things from MoD top-down. Next time keep your wands ready, and especially with your vote call whom you want to keep at the helms of mil affairs.

member_23651 · Post by **member_23651** » 26 Jun 2013 06:02

I always wanted to ask one question why levcon got omitted in LCA Mark 2 for airforce. I thought they might introduce them for improving maneuverability. It's noob question because I am illiterate in aeronautical field of study, just trying to increase my knowledge.

<err corrected typo>

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 26 Jun 2013 06:57

Can you put through the links and drawings again? Am I missing something here?

member_23651 · Post by **member_23651** » 26 Jun 2013 07:25

^ sorry corrected typo I meant LCA MK 2 for air force and not navy

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 26 Jun 2013 07:52

oh! still, it was never under design consideration in the first place. the levcons were introduced only for n-lca, just to get that faster higher AoA, and for short take off assisted landing purposes.

alexis · Post by **alexis** » 26 Jun 2013 12:33

^^
Saik has answered it