LCA News and Discussions

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vasu raya
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by vasu raya »

Philip wrote:You are coming close to my idea of old of turning a few hundred of our retd. aircraft into "kamaikaze"/UCAVs!
if we want Kamikaze aircraft, instead of developing new FCS for old and retired aircraft, develop the Advanced Crew Escape and Rescue Capability (AERCAB) so pilots get to put the plane in a trajectory to hit the target and they eject a few secs before that. This AERCAB is a futuristic technology combined with a ejection seat allowing for pilots to safely return from contested airspace to safer areas where they can be picked up.

Mig-21 in a steep dive hitting a mountain side tunnel entrance surpasses the Brahmos in a bunker buster role
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by MN Kumar »

vasu raya wrote:
Philip wrote:You are coming close to my idea of old of turning a few hundred of our retd. aircraft into "kamaikaze"/UCAVs!
if we want Kamikaze aircraft, instead of developing new FCS for old and retired aircraft, develop the Advanced Crew Escape and Rescue Capability (AERCAB) so pilots get to put the plane in a trajectory to hit the target and they eject a few secs before that. This AERCAB is a futuristic technology combined with a ejection seat allowing for pilots to safely return from contested airspace to safer areas where they can be picked up.

Mig-21 in a steep dive hitting a mountain side tunnel entrance surpasses the Brahmos in a bunker buster role
That defeats the entire purpose of a UCAV concept. Also a pilots body goes through enormous stress when he ejects at high speeds.
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by Kartik »

vasu raya wrote:
Philip wrote:You are coming close to my idea of old of turning a few hundred of our retd. aircraft into "kamaikaze"/UCAVs!
if we want Kamikaze aircraft, instead of developing new FCS for old and retired aircraft, develop the Advanced Crew Escape and Rescue Capability (AERCAB) so pilots get to put the plane in a trajectory to hit the target and they eject a few secs before that. This AERCAB is a futuristic technology combined with a ejection seat allowing for pilots to safely return from contested airspace to safer areas where they can be picked up.

Mig-21 in a steep dive hitting a mountain side tunnel entrance surpasses the Brahmos in a bunker buster role
thats a badly conceived idea..how on earth do you suggest the pilot be retrieved if he manages to survive the ejection and lands safely? Most of the times the target will be behind enemy lines..I guess you don't mind losing trained pilots as POWs and have completely discounted the threat to the CSR crew that will need to go find the pilot and bring him/her back safely.
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by JayS »

vasu raya wrote:
Philip wrote:You are coming close to my idea of old of turning a few hundred of our retd. aircraft into "kamaikaze"/UCAVs!
if we want Kamikaze aircraft, instead of developing new FCS for old and retired aircraft, develop the Advanced Crew Escape and Rescue Capability (AERCAB) so pilots get to put the plane in a trajectory to hit the target and they eject a few secs before that. This AERCAB is a futuristic technology combined with a ejection seat allowing for pilots to safely return from contested airspace to safer areas where they can be picked up.

Mig-21 in a steep dive hitting a mountain side tunnel entrance surpasses the Brahmos in a bunker buster role
:rotfl:

Why not just let the poor pilot die in peace than making him going through so much of hassle?? You don't return back from Kamikaze mission. And if you do, its not a Kamikaze mission..!!

EDIT:
@ Kartik
I have a better idea, suit-them-up with Iron-Man suit, and then they can return back to homeland after ejection from anywhere. (PS: Iron Man suit can fly from US to Afghanistan and back without refueling)
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by SaiK »

ot alert!
vasu raya
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by vasu raya »

Kartik wrote:
vasu raya wrote:
if we want Kamikaze aircraft, instead of developing new FCS for old and retired aircraft, develop the Advanced Crew Escape and Rescue Capability (AERCAB) so pilots get to put the plane in a trajectory to hit the target and they eject a few secs before that. This AERCAB is a futuristic technology combined with a ejection seat allowing for pilots to safely return from contested airspace to safer areas where they can be picked up.

Mig-21 in a steep dive hitting a mountain side tunnel entrance surpasses the Brahmos in a bunker buster role
thats a badly conceived idea..how on earth do you suggest the pilot be retrieved if he manages to survive the ejection and lands safely? Most of the times the target will be behind enemy lines..I guess you don't mind losing trained pilots as POWs and have completely discounted the threat to the CSR crew that will need to go find the pilot and bring him/her back safely.
well AERCAB is the missing link, its a concept from 1970s, with today's technology it could be a reality (watch the videos below), maybe by the 2020s it will be mainstream in the mil domain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4arnATc04U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWJ1ratGKAo
Rossy's carbon-kevlar Jetwing has four engines attached, which each offer a thrust of 22kg, propelling the Swiss aviator at between 200-300kph, controlled by a simple throttle in his hand. The rest of the controls are left to the human-fuselage, Yves Rossy himself who simply usages his shoulders, body and legs to steer, pitch and descend.
getting rid of all those acrobatics will make for a more usable hardware. Here is what the Abhyas drone from DRDO is about

DRDO developing high-speed target drone Abhyas
“The first experimental launch (without the engine) of Abhyas was held last year at the Chitradurga range. It was the first ground-based trial held at the new range. We are now working on a small gas turbine engine weighing 19 kg having a thrust of 25 kg to be fitted on to Abhyas,” Krishnan said.
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by Gurneesh »

^^^ Why jump through all those hoops when Nirbhay will do the same job for at least the same cost (of retrofitting a fighter as UCAV + fancy pilot rescue concepts) if not less !!
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by Philip »

I said Kamaikaze aircraft,not with pilots! I made this suggestion many years ago.No one is suggesting that we replicate the "banzai boys" of WW2 on a one-way tkt. to the next world! Well happily leave that to the ungodly species. I'm sure that the hundreds of retd. aircraft can have one last flight into history,if they're not being mothballed as war reserves.What harm is there in attempting to turn one of these into a UAV/UCAV.After all,didn't the Israelis and IN attempt to do the very same with a naval Chetak?
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by Kartik »

Gurneesh wrote:^^^ Why jump through all those hoops when Nirbhay will do the same job for at least the same cost (of retrofitting a fighter as UCAV + fancy pilot rescue concepts) if not less !!
exactly. its a pointless exercise even arguing about the futility of such a concept.
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by SaiK »

foremost logical thing is all these kamikazee crap you are talking about landing our pilots safely into enemy land!? is that your objective philip?
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by vasu raya »

The Migs are old yet IAF wouldn't retire them for fear of squadron depletion. we all get tempted with ideas of converting them to UCAVs seeing that they are still flying. However, the effort involved in making a Mig-21 into a UCAV when it is being sunset gives less returns as time passes. For a similar kind of effort, one can develop AERCAB and as long as there are manned fighters, this AERCAB, fancy or not, will be useful.

Its a good thing that these days Mig pilots are ejecting should there be any trouble, however what if they have to do it outside Indian territory, with AERCAB around those Mig squadrons can stay put for some more time.

What would one do if we have expendable UCAVs is a different question, especially when we have cruise missiles. However we are developing UCAVs as well, aren't we?
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by SaiK »

you know what, the decommissioned mig 21 engines can be fine tuned /tweaked for turbine power generation for the civilian sector, perhaps modified to run using LNG. at least engage some kids to work on a porject to run a jet engine using LNG, etc. junk the metal, and perhaps reuse parts for some history purposes, musuem, etc. it is a debt to keep it in flying condition.
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by Singha »

HAL should be providing engines to mech depts of engineering colleges properly with instrumentation and SW toolkit for people to understand it better. even a modded PTAE-7 will get things moving.

India is like ships in the night, a billion objects going their own random ways....
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by JayS »

Singha wrote:HAL should be providing engines to mech depts of engineering colleges properly with instrumentation and SW toolkit for people to understand it better. even a modded PTAE-7 will get things moving.

India is like ships in the night, a billion objects going their own random ways....
I second that. I would have given anything to see an airframe or a jet engine during my Bachelors days. Though we had a very old jet engine, the college was not allowed to open it. :(

Nothing beats the hands on experience. Let the budding engineers get some feel of real stuff. :mrgreen:
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by Lalmohan »

SaiK wrote:foremost logical thing is all these kamikazee crap you are talking about landing our pilots safely into enemy land!? is that your objective philip?
he meant kamikaze for the aircraft, there is no pilot involved
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by Lalmohan »

SaiK wrote:you know what, the decommissioned mig 21 engines can be fine tuned /tweaked for turbine power generation for the civilian sector, perhaps modified to run using LNG. at least engage some kids to work on a porject to run a jet engine using LNG, etc. junk the metal, and perhaps reuse parts for some history purposes, musuem, etc. it is a debt to keep it in flying condition.
these were used for blowing out oil well fires too
and can be used for clearing snow from runways, etc.
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by SaiK »

Lalmohan wrote:
SaiK wrote:foremost logical thing is all these kamikazee crap you are talking about landing our pilots safely into enemy land!? is that your objective philip?
he meant kamikaze for the aircraft, there is no pilot involved
so, firstly we need to convert those migs to UCAVs.. and then cr@p it kamikazee ishtyle?!? besides CEP etc.. what is the point of funding IDGMP
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by Lalmohan »

there is no point now, but there was a window when it made sense
you can make them them into target drones now, or decoy bait aircraft to probe enemy air defences
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by ramana »

Singha wrote:HAL should be providing engines to mech depts of engineering colleges properly with instrumentation and SW toolkit for people to understand it better. even a modded PTAE-7 will get things moving.

India is like ships in the night, a billion objects going their own random ways....

GD, In the old days the Prinicpal of RECW was a retired Gp Captain form Engineering Branch in IAF. He used his contacts to get an old Mig 21 engine recoverd from a crash.

His hope was some student will get inspired by the design.
Unfortunately its was hangar queen in the Engine Lab mounted on a stand with no description of specs or nothing.
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by Philip »

True,Nirbhay,B'Mos,etc.,are all wonderful 21st century systems,but they come at a certain cost.The US rapidly ran out of Tomahawks during GW1 and even now is trying to reduce cost of missiles making them more affordable as their usage and targets keep on increasing. In future conflicts,the demand for PGMs is going to be astronomical,as no one wants to needlessly send manned aircraft into harm's way. What will also be the protocol for use of missiles like BMos or Nirbhay;which targets will be found worthy of the expending of such a valuable item of ordnance? Look at the manner in which the US is prosecuting targets in Af-Pak using its UCAVs/drones.Demand from all US services for such unmanned types is increasing by the day and so will it be with our own armed forces.

When we already have hundreds of aircraft in storage doing nothing,what harm is there in attempting to make use of them by developing them into UAVs/UCAVs or kamikaze aircraft/missiles? Let us not keep our minds in a straightjacket and think outside the box,like the ingenious ones who used AN-12s as bombers,and those who conjured up the idea of towing short ranged Osa class missile boats to paste the hell out of Karachi and the PN during the '71 war.
The X-47B has just landed (tailhooked) on a USN carrier-the first time ever for an unmanned aircraft,but it and its development costs have been prohibitive and a future UCAV design is the next big competition for the USN's air wing.We do not have the huge budgets of the US armed forces and must innovate.
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by SaiK »

Future PGMs means reduced weight profile, and higher accuracy and explosive charges. the X-47s are the way to go for the future. It is not expensive than AMCA++. LCA++ can definitely be a platform to test out many capabilities.
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by srin »

A cruise missile costs around a million dollars and probably be good for 10 years, and can be launched from a truck or from a ship. A mig-21 is bigger and needs to be stored in hangars and will need continuous maitenance, and also will need runways close to theatre of operations to take off. Of course, you need appropriate avionics and control systems to make that unmanned.

So - if you are going to use something for a one-time bang, a cruise missile makes the most sense. Using unmanned kamikaze fighter aircraft seems to be a very desperate option. I hope we will never get there.

Reusable UCAV is a different matter, but would need great development effort for avionics and automation.
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by Vashishtha »

you know what, the decommissioned mig 21 engines can be fine tuned /tweaked for turbine power generation for the civilian sector, perhaps modified to run using LNG.
Gas turbines used for aircraft propulsion are not the same as those used for shaft power production. You'd have to carry out some serious modifications to a jet engine to be able to do that and the cost may very well outweigh the benefits.
HAL should be providing engines to mech depts of engineering colleges properly with instrumentation and SW toolkit for people to understand it better. even a modded PTAE-7 will get things moving.
This really needs to be done ASAP, no point of studying about gas turbines as a mech/aerospace engineer if you've never seen one in real life.
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by SaiK »

Perhaps in another thread, you may list the modifications needed to verify possibilities. This must be an interesting project for our kids. Also you may check/compare GE FLEX<something?> if they have achieved something in this area they were working few years back.

--PS:

well, let me save you few clicks.
http://www.ge-flexibility.com/products- ... 00-ph.html
Image
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by Vashishtha »

I did not mean modifications to fuel lines.. One can easily achieve that by changing the fuel pumps/injectors and tweaking the control systems.

The turbines of a jet engine are meant to produce just enough shaft power to run the compressor whereas ground based GT's are designed to power both the compressor and the auxiliaries. One cannot simply extend the shaft of a jet engine and connect it to an electric generator. Even if you were to you'd never get optimal fuel efficiencies because that would not be the design point.
A separate power turbine behind the nozzle would be a minimum and that is not a minor modification :)

I like the GEFlex, small and robust. If GTRE could design something similar with Indian needs in mind it could substantially increase power available to homes while all the heavy lifting for industrial requirements is done by larger power stations :) . Anyway's Dont want to go OT but I strongly support your idea of letting engg. schools in India experiment with Gas turbines. They are wonderful machines :)
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by Philip »

A marine version of Kaveri was supposed to be on the cards,what happened? Soviet era missile craft used modified jet engines.
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by Indranil »

LCA has a new website. Enjoy :-).
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by Philip »

I've just recd. my copy of VAYU (M-2000+ LGB )which underscores my point about the expense of valuable PGMs/missiles.In the entire Kargil conflict only 8 PGMs were used,the rest,dumb bombs.Worried about the possibility of the crisis escalating into a full-blown conflict,the IAF decided not to use its limited stock of Matra 1000lb LGBs,Paveway-2 LGbs kits were used on 1000lb dumb bombs,,but incorrect parts were supplied and the embargo forced us to make the parts locally for use on the M-2000.
With so many vital targets now being buried deep underground,the need for PGMs/MOAB equivs., which can penetrate multiple levels of hardened concrete is going to be huge...and very expensive. Turning at least 100 old aircraft for kamaikaze missione or into UCAVs would be a worthwhile exercise in my opinion.
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by nash »

indranilroy wrote:LCA has a new website. Enjoy :-).
from the new website

F404-GE-IN20
Dimensions: Diameter 890 mm, Length 3.9 m
Weights: Max Weight 1,035 kg (2,282 lb)
Engines Performance: Thrust 9,163 kg (20,200 lb) = ~89-90KN

From wiki:

Powerplant: 1 × F404-GE-IN20 turbofan
Dry thrust: 53.9 kN[88] (12,100 lbf)
Thrust with afterburner: 85 kN[89][90][91] (19,000 lbf)

look like the IN20 version has some extra thrust, which very much equal to EJ200.

This also strengthen the speculation that F414-GE-INS6 version will has thrust more than 100.
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by member_23364 »

Hmmm...have been reading the LCA forum everyday after Avinash Chander's high profile LCA commitments/Bangalore visits last month but zero updates on the LCA progress, especially on the leaking radome, AoA limits extension and the series production hiccups at HAL.

Other than updates on number of flights, there is really no progress on the LCA front. Same for the IJT. Disappointing, to say the least.
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by SaiK »

that would be around 40 odd 404 based engines for mk-1(two orders i guess) . for mk-2, it is 414 baselined.
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by Indranil »

nash wrote:This also strengthen the speculation that F414-GE-INS6 version will has thrust more than 100.
Nope :-). From the Page on genesis.
FUTURE DEVELOPMENT
Tejas Mark 2 - Featuring more powerful General Electric F414-GE-INS6 engine with 98Kn thrust and refined aerodynamics. The Mark 2 is being developed to meet the Indian Air Staff requirements.
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by SaiK »

indranilroy wrote:
FUTURE DEVELOPMENT
Tejas Mark 2 - Featuring more powerful General Electric F414-GE-INS6 engine with 98Kn thrust and refined aerodynamics. The Mark 2 is being developed to meet the Indian Air Staff requirements. changes.
wouldn't that be correct?
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by neerajb »

Vashishtha wrote:
you know what, the decommissioned mig 21 engines can be fine tuned /tweaked for turbine power generation for the civilian sector, perhaps modified to run using LNG.
Gas turbines used for aircraft propulsion are not the same as those used for shaft power production. You'd have to carry out some serious modifications to a jet engine to be able to do that and the cost may very well outweigh the benefits.
[youtube]HKAxdpMBxV8&feature=c4-overview-vl&list=PL6CDDA15979A9D409[/youtube]

Watch 06:30 onwards. You'll change your mind.

Cheers....
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by SaiK »

^good find. now you made vashishta an expert.;)
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by kshirin »

Apologies if this has been posted before. Hopes it accelerates timelines for induction of the LCA. Google translation.

http://armstrade.org/includes/periodics ... tail.shtml

23.04.2013
India's Ministry of Defense has suspended the implementation of the project fighter of the fifth generation AMCA to accelerate the completion LCA «Tejas"

TSAMTO, April 22. Indian Defense Ministry has suspended the implementation of a medium-fighter of the fifth generation AMCA (Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft), to focus on the finalization of the light combat aircraft 'Tejas »LCA (Light Combat Aircraft).

According to the "Sunday Standard", citing a source in the Indian Defense Ministry, the Agency aviation development (Aeronautical Development Agency, ADA) of the Defence Research and Development (DRDO) of India Ministry of Defense instructed to suspend all work on the project AMCA and focus on refining the fighter 'Tejas'.

LCA program

Development of LCA aircraft to replace the MiG-21 began in 1983. Work carried out jointly ADA, DRDO, the company "Hindustan Aeronautics Limited" (HAL) and the Indian Air Force. The first flight of aircraft LCA TD-1 made 4 January 2001. The first supersonic flight took place in August 2003. The provisional certificate of initial readiness for combat aircraft received in January 2011 from the Military CA in Bangalore. As expected, the aircraft will reach a state of "complete" initial readiness for combat use in January 2012, following the integration of weapons systems and the implementation of high-altitude flights.

However, in October 2011, the Air Force Commander Air Marshal Norman Anil Kumar Browne announced that the deadline moved to the end of 2012. In September 2012, he also said that the deadline is moved to July 2013. Now it is planned that the aircraft will reach a state of "complete" initial readiness for combat in December 2013 - January 2014.

A comprehensive assessment of the level of initial readiness for combat use LCA was carried out during the exercise "Iron Fest" (Iron Fist) at the site Pohran (units of Rajasthan ") in February of this year. The exercises were assessed fighting capabilities "Tejas" and the accuracy of the use of weapons. As planned, if the plane will meet performance requirements, it will be allowed to enacting. Air Force had hoped that all the necessary procedures will be completed by mid-2013. In this case, the Air Force India's first squadron of these aircraft will be adopted only in 2015. However, once again been identified about 100 disadvantages, including problems with the reliability of the radar.

Currently, the Indian Air Force placed an order for the purchase of two squadrons of 40 fighters in the LCA Mk.1 version of the engines' General Electric »F404 thrust 80 kN, which is planned to supply the troops in 2016-2017. In the future we plan to buy another four squadrons of the LCA in 80 Mk.2 version with F414 engines thrust of 90 kN. The first squadron will be based at the airbase "Sulur" (units of Tamil Nadu). In the two-seat combat trainer version will be produced 14 aircraft.

The program AMCA

ADA Agency began work on the draft national average fighter of the fifth generation AMCA in 2010. In October 2010, the government approved the allocation for this program one billion rupees (21.9 million dollars). Until the end of 2011 the project was completed the formation of the program.

Earlier, referring to the director of the ADA P.S.Sabramanyama reported that the agency expects the allocation for 2011-2012. the second tranche in the amount of about $ 2 billion to finance the program.These funds are intended to direct the development of two technology demonstrators and seven prototypes. Apparently, these funds are not yet identified in the current year is unlikely to be a decision on their selection.

Originally launched flight tests AMCA expected in 2017-2018 gg. Adoption fighter AMCA into service planned after 2020. Now this time will be shifted to 2025.

According to the ADA, AMCA will be a multipurpose twin-engine fighter, have a low radar signature. The fighter will be equipped with modern avionics. He will be able to carry out cruise at supersonic speeds and be placed in the inner compartments precision weapons systems. The set of weapons AMCA, in particular, will go a long-range guided missile "Astra" class "air-to-air", developed by DRDO.

Originally planned to equip fighter AMCA engines being developed under the "Kaveri", which in 2011 were tested in Zhukovsky. As the project did not take place, and for the light combat aircraft were purchased F414 American company "General Electric", it is possible that they will also be equipped and AMCA.

AMCA fighter to replace aging aircraft in its class - "Jaguar" and "Mirage 2000" and, accordingly, to bridge the gap between light combat aircraft LCA «Tejas" and heavy fighters Su-30MKI. Developed aircraft will be classified as medium-sized fighter (20 m) and different from belonging to a heavier 30-ton category of the fifth generation fighter PAK-FA, which will be jointly developed by India and Russia.

Although AMCA, primarily intended to meet the needs IAF, ADA does not exclude the possibility of developing in future aircraft embodiment for navies.
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by Vashishtha »

Good find vik. Now read the authors comments below, the LM1500 is a 'gas generator', to derive any useful power it has to be connected to a power turbine on a separate spool which more or less reiterates what I just said.

Think of it this way:
Gas Generator + Afterburner + Nozzle = Jet engine
Gas Generator + Power Turbine = Shaft Power Production

The gas generator part may be the same (as in the case of the LM1500) but u'd have to do a lot of work to convert a J79 to produce power. Less time consuming and possibly cheaper (depends from engine to engine) to buy the LM1500 itself...
^good find. now you made vashishta an expert.;)


Thank you lol
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by kshirin »

This is an old article but I found it interesting anyway. Hope hasn't been posted earlier. Google translation:

http://www.militaryparitet.com/perevodn ... dnie/1116/

29.09.10 CHINESE JOURNAL COMPARES THE PERFORMANCE AND PROSPECTS OF FIGHTERS FC-1/JF-17 AND LCA TEJAS
September 29, 2010

"Military Parity." Forum china-defense.com published material available in the September issue of Chinese military magazine "Weapon of knowledge" (article in Chinese, is an approximate translation of the name - "VP" ), which analyzes the performance and prospects of light fighters - Sino-Pakistani FC-1 Xiaolong ( "Xiaolong" - "Cruel Dragon" - the Chinese symbol ) / JF-17 Thunder ("Thunder" - Pakistani designation) and the Indian LCA Tejas .

At the present time fighter FC-1/JF-17 supplied by the Air Force of Pakistan and finds an initial operational capability. This combat fighter aircraft to replace the F-7 (J-7 / MiG-21).

Indian fighter LCA Tejas is still at the stage of flight testing and should also come to replace the MiG-21.

Both aircraft have nearly the same size and are designed for close air combat and providing close air support for ground troops, also could be used against naval targets.

In developing these fighters designers abandoned achieve such characteristics as the MiG-21 supersonic air intercept at high altitudes, opting for capacity building of aircraft at lower speeds and altitudes, thus striving to achieve multifunctionality combat use. According to its characteristics of Sino-Pakistani and Indian fighters occupy an intermediate position between the American aircraft F-20 Tiger Shark and the F-16 Fighting Falcon .

Fighter LCA Tejas has tailless aerodynamic design with a thin Triangle wing a large area, thus this fighter has a low wing loading and was designed to achieve high supersonic speeds. But later refused to do so, the plane is a bit heavier and has a relatively weak engine.

Incidentally, FC-1/JF-17 not obtained easily, since the period of its development, China had modern construction materials such as titanium and composites, and in this respect fighter level does not correspond to that now achieved in the country for developing such materials .

Both aircraft have the nose section, which houses a pulse-Doppler radar with a diameter of about 60 cm detection range goals may reach 60-100 km.

Of great importance for the performance of these cars have engines. At an early stage of development FC-1 China hoped to use American motor F404 , but the embargo on Western military equipment has changed those plans.

Was captured Russian engines RD-93, which is significantly inferior to its technology and resources to American turbofans, but has a much greater thrust. But it was a blessing, because FC-1/JF-17 was more severe than expected designers.

Indian fighter turned a little more lighter and smaller in size, but these advantages are offset by the use of a weaker engine. Serial LCA Tejas can be equipped American engine F404-GE-400 with a maximum thrust augmentor 71 kN, while RD-93 has a rod 81 kN.

Indian fighter can beat his rival, if it is equipped with such engines as the F414-GE-400 , M88-3 or EJ-200 (thrust 98.87 and 89 kN). But the use of these advanced engines by Indian designers to generate a lot of difficulties. Indian engineers are trying to develop its own engine Kaveri , but even received technical assistance from Russia and France, are faced with enormous challenges.

Export prospects FC-1/JF-17 for the next 10 years could reach 350-400 cars. In addition, you can create on its basis a light shock deck plane, similar to the French Super Etendard , but at a higher technological base. Fighter LCA Tejas will need at least 2-3 years of flight tests before it goes into production. Export potential of the aircraft is estimated to be very limited. To achieve profitability, the Indian Air Force will have to buy at least 200 of these aircraft. The author writes that while India is experiencing difficulties and losing time, Chinese fighter jets JF-17 and J-10 have to go out on a broad "international cooperation" and to take a leading position in the global market of light fighters.
neerajb
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by neerajb »

Vashishtha wrote:Good find vik. Now read the authors comments below, the LM1500 is a 'gas generator', to derive any useful power it has to be connected to a power turbine on a separate spool which more or less reiterates what I just said.

Think of it this way:
Gas Generator + Afterburner + Nozzle = Jet engine
Gas Generator + Power Turbine = Shaft Power Production

The gas generator part may be the same (as in the case of the LM1500) but u'd have to do a lot of work to convert a J79 to produce power. Less time consuming and possibly cheaper (depends from engine to engine) to buy the LM1500 itself...
^good find. now you made vashishta an expert.;)


Thank you lol
Then you have no idea how GTs are used in industrial applications. The engine is nothing but a gas generator as always and you need to add a power turbine to extract energy from that generated gas. Who says you need to add that power turbine to a spool? It's just an add on. It's like a tube joining the exhaust of GT to the power turbine. The casing even doesn't have to be of the same radius. This also avoids gearing issues since the coupling between the GT and power turbine are exhaust gases. The power turbine is then attached to a simple gear box and then the final drive goes out to the load as required. The load can be a compressor for pumping the natural gas down the pipeline or an electrical generator.

[youtube]C83mgWARVbI&list=PLAE229AD929F0B653[/youtube]

[youtube]5tmdqNvagZM&list=PLAE229AD929F0B653[/youtube]

Cheers....
Vashishtha
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Re: LCA News and Discussions

Post by Vashishtha »

Then you have no idea how GTs are used in industrial applications.
Think I wasted 4 years at college. Watching Youtube would've cut it :)
Who says you need to add that power turbine to a spool? It's just an add on.
But then this is why I chose college over youtube.
Apologies if I did not use clearer words in the previous post. I meant, a separate shaft... If you had a cursory knowledge of Gt you'd know how spool and shaft are used interchangeably..
The casing even doesn't have to be of the same radius.
They have to be of the same radius. If you expand the casing diameter you lose the Ke of the flow (like a diffuser) and turbines make use of the flow kinetic energy..

And no, not 'just an addon' like a new cover for your mobile phone. Will you be willing to design and build a power turbine for an gas generator whose useful life is close to an end? Is it worth all the effort?

Again, Im not saying its impossible, but just not worth it.
Last edited by Vashishtha on 14 Jul 2013 18:45, edited 1 time in total.
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