AP Politics and runup to 2014 General elections

Sridhar · Post by **Sridhar** » 31 Jul 2013 19:12

RamaY,

You are addressing the wrong person.

The amount you are referring to is exactly what I mentioned as the share of central taxes. That is based on a formula set by the Finance Commission, and there is little to no scope for altering that amount in the Constitutional scheme of things. These are the non-plan (ie revenue) part of the transfers to the state.

The support for the new capital city or other infrastructure would on the other hand come from the plan component of the transfers. That is negotiated annually with the planning commission. There is more leeway to alter this, but the amount for 2013-14 was Rs. 5000 crores for the entire undivided state.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 31 Jul 2013 19:12

from twitter... peaceful kosta people pulling down rajiv and indira statues apparently... why not ysr statues as well, I can only wonder....

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 31 Jul 2013 19:13

Unfair or fair is all when there is decent democracy. Right now INC is on a distress mode and they need to get 35 from AP or otherwise the UPA-3 is not going to be there. Telugus will take the advantage of the distress and UPA's creation. Polavaram project on Godavari is now national project even though it is just useful to T and AP. This new City stuff, some grand outer ring roads around Vizag, Vijayawada will also become national projects. I will take a friendly bet. A lot of money will be poured into this state.

Read a week ago's Sunday Gaurdian article. Congress is looking from a soft fall and it is desperately looking for a Deva Gowda type situation but with friendly third party members. It does not consider TDP as friendly. If BJP does not cross 170 on national level, congress is at 130 and Jagan gets 20 from new AP that is a huge win for the dynasty's survival.

AP will exploit the monetary benifits it can extract.

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 31 Jul 2013 19:16

SBajwa wrote:Congress always go for the joint capitals to keep the issues simmering while BJP cleanly created the states of Uttrakhand, Chhatisgarh and Jharkhand.

Chandigarh was suppose to be given to Punjab after Rajiv-Longowal act since it was made on the Punjabi speaking areas in 1966 but till date 2013 it is still a joint capital. Himachal did got its own capital after some time.

This haryana cm hooda is even opposing Punjab Govt's decision to create New Chandigarh within Punjab's own Mullanpur area, saying haryana even owns the name chandigarh

I think SAD has to advertise - highlight Rajiv-Longowal pact and hooda's disrespect to the pact signed by Late Rajiv gandhi to put him on backfoot.

Sridhar · Post by **Sridhar** » 31 Jul 2013 19:18

Here is a document with the details on the funding sources. See page 14.

http://planningcommission.nic.in/plans/ ... 013_14.pdf

You can see that the central support for AP's annual plan was 5096 crores. That will potentially increase, but cannot increase by the crazy amounts that people are thinking about. A few hundred crores more at best is what you can expect.

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 31 Jul 2013 19:26

Sridhar wrote:Here is a document with the details on the funding sources. See page 14.

http://planningcommission.nic.in/plans/ ... 013_14.pdf

You can see that the central support for AP's annual plan was 5096 crores. That will potentially increase, but cannot increase by the crazy amounts that people are thinking about. A few hundred crores more at best is what you can expect.

Those numbers are for regular running of states.

Here it is special provision for new development. Let Center decide how they want to fund. Whether they deduct from other states or Telangana or get loans from banks or world bank, is up to them.

Rayalaseema will be asking for funds also. They were asking some 1-2 Lakh crores in the past for their development.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 31 Jul 2013 19:32

ShyamSP garu, the unbelivable silence of INC honchos on the otherside is very surprising. It is a near total bandh. Folks are talking about legal action about Article 372/s (exclusively related to AP created in 1971).

Apart from that here is something to chew.

http://www.firstpost.com/politics/telan ... 95733.html

Also, the TDP on the otherside is also strategically very calm so far. CBN made an impartial statement so far. CM is yet to talk.

Sridhar · Post by **Sridhar** » 31 Jul 2013 19:40

Everybody can ask what they want. The amounts available to play with are much smaller. The state's share of central revenues is entirely formulaic, and that is a Constitutional obligation that no central government can alter. The two places with leeway are plan funds where the amounts are small, and centrally funded projects (e.g. Central schemes such as JNNURM) where again, other states will not allow more than a marginal variation. World bank loans are feasible, but will have to be repaid by the state for the most part (there could be a central share for national projects. ). They could (and should) set up centrally funded educational institutions - Universities, IIT, IIM so there will be some funds that way. But all I am saying is that you need to be realistic about what is possible, even with the political capital that will temporarily exist.

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 31 Jul 2013 19:43

5000 Crs in Central Aid would be meager. Just a new international airport would cost that much.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 31 Jul 2013 19:51

Sridhar wrote:RamaY,

You are addressing the wrong person.

The amount you are referring to is exactly what I mentioned as the share of central taxes. That is based on a formula set by the Finance Commission, and there is little to no scope for altering that amount in the Constitutional scheme of things. These are the non-plan (ie revenue) part of the transfers to the state.

The support for the new capital city or other infrastructure would on the other hand come from the plan component of the transfers. That is negotiated annually with the planning commission. There is more leeway to alter this, but the amount for 2013-14 was Rs. 5000 crores for the entire undivided state.

Yes, it can come from Plan component OR it can come from central contribution of state taxes. GoI need to decide how to handle this request for additional funds.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 31 Jul 2013 19:58

Hot Race Begins For New Andhra Capital http://greatandhra.com/viewnews.php?id= ... 15&scat=16

Soon after the UPA's announcement on formation of separate Telangana state, a hot race has begun for the new capital of Andhra Pradesh.

Hyderabad will be the common capital for Telangana and Andhra Pradesh for a period of ten years. In the meantime, a new capital has to be built for AP in Seemandhra.

An intense debate has broken out on where the new capital should be located.

The coming days will surely witness hard lobbying by the influential politicians and industrialists to locate the new capital near their preferred towns.

Already, there is a powerful section, having interests in business and coastal Andhra politics, rooting for a location between Vijayawada and Guntur.

Another equally influential section of Congress leaders want Tirupati to be the capital of AP.

The Chief Minister N Kiran Kumar Reddy and the Telugu Desam Party Chief N Chandrababu Naidu will be interested in pushing this proposal hard. Tirupati is an important pilgrim center, attracting a huge floating population. The popular Tirumala temple attracts highest number of domestic tourists.

Though Visakhapatnam is a highly developed city with a string of public sector units and private companies and a naval dockyard, its location is disadvantageous for the people of Seemandhra as it is on the eastern tip of the state.

Ongole could be an ideal location but it does not have influential leaders lobbying for it. If the new state capital comes up near Ongole, the backward Prakasam district will get a fillip. The government already had acquired nearly 30,000 acres of land in Ongole. Virgin land mostly under government control is available there. The city is centrally located with a port, rail and good road connectivity.

Kurnool, which was the original capital of Andhra state before the formation of AP in 1956, is also in the race. The equidistance from Coastal and Rayalaseema regions will be an important factor in zeroing on the new capital for AP.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 31 Jul 2013 19:59

MIM, CPM Give Up Anti-Telangana Stand http://greatandhra.com/viewnews.php?id= ... 15&scat=16

Majlis-e-Ittehadul Muslimeen, which had hitherto been strongly opposing the Telangana formation, has realized that it would be on the losing side if it continued to oppose the Telangana formation.

MIM president and Hyderabad MP Asaduddin Owaisi said now that the Centre had taken a decision, there was nothing for his party do anything but to accept the same.

“We welcome the decision and will support the Telangana Bill in Parliament,” he said.

He demanded that the governments in both the states continue four percent reservation being currently provided to Muslims in jobs and education. He also sought first language status to Urdu along with Telugu in Telangana and hoped that Urdu would enjoy the status of second official language in the other state.

Owaisi, however, expressed apprehension that the Bharatiya Janata Party would get strengthened in the Telangana region, which was dangerous to secular forces.

“We have no option but to counter the threat from the BJP now and we would fight against it tooth and nail,” he said.

Interestingly, the Communist Party of India (Marxist), which has been a strong opponent of the state bifurcation, also softened its stand on Telangana. CPI-M state secretary B V Raghavulu welcomed the Congress decision, on the ground that it had at last ended the political uncertainty in the state.

“Though the CPI-M, per se, is opposed to division of the state, we will welcome the move in the best interests of the people,” Raghavulu said.

So TDP and BJP need to plan how to counter INC+TRS+MIM alliance.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 31 Jul 2013 20:09

So that was the rumor about Tirupati being hived from Chittor District which I posted earleir.

Muppalla, The silence of the 'leaders' could be that of the shell shocked fish caught when the "cheruvu" became dry*.

* Refer to Shanti Parvam story narrated by Bhisma to Dharamaraja of the three fishes and how a responsible person should be wary and watchful.

---
Narayana Roa garu CBN and his coterie were suffering from hubris and not realising that to survive in a war one has to win all the battles and ensure that the higher power is dependent on your goodwill in order to protect yourself.

Late I will write a full length writeup on hso we came here. Its needed to understand how to get out.

And everyone ignore vinaji, he still suffers from Pallava domination.

----RamaY, Go back to Mesquita analysis. I am amazed how accurately it predicted the mess when key players are turned.

The MIM anti-T state was a hudbaya always.

CPM thinks its final realization of the anti-Nizam struggle.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 31 Jul 2013 20:11

Ramanagaru

Yep. Most importantly the key take out for me is
1. Our assessment of player strengths and positions are correct

2. So we can use the data about player strengths and alliances moving forward.

On CBN and others... I posted a story on Ramayana in Epics thread (Ramo' Vigrahavan Dharma:) in that Viswamitra tells Rama, the whole/primary/only duty of a king is "PREPAREDNESS". The king must be prepared for any eventuality. He cannot start his preparation AFTER the event happens.

Unfortunately the (sic) modern leaders lack this awareness.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 31 Jul 2013 20:18

Forget tamil, telugu, malayalam crap... you guys are missing the whole point that all these dissections are mainly due to bad administration of the past.. when people don't desrerve what they aspire for, you get into trouble eventually. this is the truth.. if people of madras wishes to join AP, there is no force on earth stopping that. so is dilli.

And, the khan model of infrstructure is often put in as role model.. folks wake up.. khan model is based on standardized living. where is that in indic context? the fact that moving capital means, the whole bribery network must be planning to move lock, stock and barell.

And folks, don't forget the oppty.. here, people are ignoring a view that can all start from scratch in a 10 year plan. why go behind correcting an infra or reworking on an infra, when you have open available lands. this is golden.. and should be given priority 1.

Muppalla · Post by **Muppalla** » 31 Jul 2013 20:37

http://www.deccanchronicle.com/130731/n ... lete-naidu

Basically TDP prepared for two states and it knows very well that it was checkmated long time back and there are no moves left. It is only working for a new begining in new equations and new situations.

MIM's aprehentions of rise of BJP in T is true. CBN should leave his last ego against Modi and go for a pre-poll alliance with BJP in T region to give a straight fight to new congress (TRS+INC merger). He can take the new realites pretext to dump his previous statement. BJP may not have won any seats but if you see 2009 elections and count votes, it got substantial numbers in many constituencies. If TDP and BJP stand seperately it could be a cake walk for INC. Just a note- even in the third phase of panchayat election that concluded today after the T declaration TDP did pretty good and INC did good too. (I will post the final chart tomorrow)

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 31 Jul 2013 20:41

Saik, In Shanti Parva Bhisma says "yacahka, yachaka shatruhu!" Seeker and another seeker are mutual enemies.

Dynasty poltics has made all the INC type state leaders into mutual enemies which the dynasty will arbitrate for their benefit.

Only NTR was a true natural leaader in AP after T Prakasam.

The way out was for the yacahakas to develop interdependencies which KKR did not. YSR true ignited the T flame to get power. For him it was a strategem and not a goal. After his death, KKR coterie shunned all the YSR acolytes in politics and in govt service and distanced themselves from counsel wise or otherwise. A wise person always gathers people around themsleves even if they are not conducive to him to ensure he is not alone when a situation arises. And KKR system was a divided house with miniscule persons casting glarge shadows like at sunset (Botsa Satyanarayana. Pallam Raju etc.).

T issue was dying fire that got revived by YSR/KCR but it really was like a flame with no heat. What was not forseen was that INC central leadership would stoke the fire and use it as an excuse to cut these 'yachakas' down to size to prevent future challengers to the dynasty.
Nothing prevents them form developing better ties now that the hubris is kicked out of them!

------------

M, CBN wont do that. He has to be forced out by the NTR family.
And that will happen.

Sridhar · Post by **Sridhar** » 31 Jul 2013 20:42

RamaY,

For changing the state's share of taxes, a Comstitutional amendment is required, and since it is one that relates to centre-state relations, a majority of state assemblies would have to ratify such an amendment before it can be enforced. Thus, it is a non starter.

At least at this forum, let's have an informed discussion. The media is pretty bad as it is.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 31 Jul 2013 20:48

Sridhar wrote:RamaY,

For changing the state's share of taxes, a Comstitutional amendment is required, and since it is one that relates to centre-state relations, a majority of state assemblies would have to ratify such an amendment before it can be enforced. Thus, it is a non starter.

At least at this forum, let's have an informed discussion. The media is pretty bad as it is.

Remember the talks of economic package for Telangana region as one of the options? How was envisioned to be implemented? The package for AP will also follow similar structure.

Where did the special package for UP (50k crore) came from?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 31 Jul 2013 20:50

Now, is the constitution act (states reorg act) based on linguistic zones (>x% what is x here/majority?) violated here? dialects considered?

if not then, what is the guarantee that future lingustic zones may not emanate as states.. where are the stoppers/boundary lines?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 31 Jul 2013 21:10

When the British left India there were ~650 states and the Presidency regions. when Sardar Patel and VP Menon completed the accession process there were a lot of states formed called Class A , B &C states. In 1956 (~9years after Independence) the States Reorganization Act was created to form linguistic contiguity states. It was a qucik way to form an identity.

I guess ~65 years after Independence there is no longer a need for linguistic identity for only morons want to separate from Indian national identity.

BTW Chenna Reddy did say that during the 1969 agitation and very quickly retracted it.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 31 Jul 2013 21:14

Sridhar wrote:RamaY,

For changing the state's share of taxes, a Comstitutional amendment is required, and since it is one that relates to centre-state relations, a majority of state assemblies would have to ratify such an amendment before it can be enforced. Thus, it is a non starter.

At least at this forum, let's have an informed discussion. The media is pretty bad as it is.

Share of Taxes is decided by Finance Commission every five years under Art 280. Part XII with important Articles dealing with taxes which are to be levvied by States , Union and to be shared etc like 268, 269,270 and 271 require constitutional amendment. Under 275 , Union can grant States needing assistance after parliamentary approval.The formula for share of taxes is decided by FC after taking into consideration arguments of all states and the Union. And it may or may not benefit the new states as their formula is applicable for all states.

All other states would oppose any change detrimental to their states. So , yes it would be a non starter.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 31 Jul 2013 21:16

ramana, your answer prompts to then a deviation if not a genuine violation of the act.. so it is time for the next gov to look at conditions for states to separate out. modi has something here, since he was in your earlier links quoted as saying supporter of many states model. More states would also mean higher allocations, and attention to wider areas of concerns.. and the inter-state integration model becomes much more managable even though it might look big.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 31 Jul 2013 21:17

SaiK wrote:Now, is the constitution act (states reorg act) based on linguistic zones (>x% what is x here/majority?) violated here? dialects considered?

if not then, what is the guarantee that future lingustic zones may not emanate as states.. where are the stoppers/boundary lines?

States Reorg Act was for some states. Linguistic basis was thrown out when BJP formed states like Jharkhand, Uttaranchal and Chhattisgarh. So there is no boundary line .

Sridhar · Post by **Sridhar** » 31 Jul 2013 22:23

RamaY:

Most of these so-called packages for states are just that - repackaging of existing schemes so that it seems like something big is being done. Look at the details of the recent such packages and it will become obvious to you that these packages don't constitute anything fundamentally new and the state would have got most of it in any case. Given that most of the transfers happen in a formulaic way (i.e. based on a formula with statistics like population, % under poverty line, urban/rural mix etc. as inputs) with no constitutional way to change the formula for a particular state, the only things the Government has some leeway over in reality are

a. Designation of a state as backward. This allows the center to convert some of the assistance that would normally come as loans to the state into grants. This would be hard to sell in the case of AP.

b. Plan funds - since the state's share for a given year out of central pool for central assistance for state plans is based on negotiations between the state and the Planning Commission, there is some leeway here. But like I said, the money for combined AP is 5000 crores, for new AP is say 3000 crores out of that (and these are for designated projects). Maybe for a short period, this can be increased by a few hundred crores. But once the elections are over in AP/Telengana (and elections come up in other states at various points of time) this will cease to be a lever that AP can use. Note that these funds are committed on an annual basis, with the 5 year plan only entailing loose commitments at the state level.

c. Nationally sponsored projects - NHAI highways, railways, major ports - these are all possibilities. Once again, Seemandhra has a pretty good level of infrastructure on a relative basis and it will be hard to justify huge shifts in investments. Perhaps AAI can put in money for upgrading an airport given the loss of Hyderabad airport. In reality, this will not be a lot of money. For a new capital city, some money could flow through schemes such as the Jawaharlal Nehru National Urban Renewal Mission (though it is strictly speaking for renewal of existing cities but this is more malleable). But again, the money we are talking about is not huge. Other investments could include things like a new Central University and new IITs/IIMs/IISc/AIIMS etc. given that AP will lose Hyderabad's riches on this front. These are typically entirely funded by the center, but again we are talking about a couple of hundreds of crores at best.

In reality, the state will have to invest in building a new capital largely using its own resources, with perhaps some assistance from the centre in the form of plan funds (e.g. in subsidizing construction of a new High Court building, provided one is created for the new state, or in the form of police modernization funds etc.).

shaardula · Post by **shaardula** » 31 Jul 2013 22:30

this could have been done much more amicably. it is really sad that the departure has to be accompanied with so much bad blood.

from what i'm reading the underlying fear is that new telegana will do a zimbabwe. apart from bbc's & guardians crowing, studies during 2009-2012 show even zimbabwe didn't do a zimbabwe, i really doubt if telangana will do a zimbabwe.

culturally ofcourse, what is going to change? when hyd has been seeded with coastal cultural inputs as much as it has been with its finances. all telugu output has to be marketable in both the states. that jaamapandu cart is not going to be upset.

politically, there is always a case to be made about giving space for the aspirations of the local satraps.

one of the things prolly we need to address is to move towards a more federated(?) system, one state vote type of system. its really unfortunate that perceived biases and impulses of large states like UP and AP influence of the nation. after all, practically speaking, the sentiment of ~30% of the larger states is taken to be the majority voice, not just for the state but for the country.

all states up for redefine. my guess is start with river basins, then do a equidistribution on population within each river basin with some give and take on linguistic/cultural affinities at the village level.

if 5 IITs were not enough for a country of 1.2 bil, how can 29 states be enough?

Sridhar · Post by **Sridhar** » 31 Jul 2013 22:39

The demands for more states will only grow, and the reason is quite straightforward. There is a lot of power at the state level, but local governments are much less powerful. In the old license/permit raj days, power was concentrated in Delhi. But after the economic reforms, power (and money) moved in large quantities to the states. More people from more regions of every large state want to partake in the spoils.

Two (connected) things can change the situation

1. Reducing the amount of loot in the system. This may well be a pipe dream, but if it happens, the attractiveness of splitting states reduces.

2. Genuine decentralization, where local politicians have genuine powers and one does not need to run to the state capital for most things.

With these changes, the demands for new states will lose steam since the demands are founded on economics at the end of the day, and the economics will not favor divisions. Or at least it will not be worth the fight.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 31 Jul 2013 22:45

We are talking about greater than 60% revenue of earlier AP coming from Telengana area.. And when we talk about joint capital, it must be decided what is the share of revenue distribution - in this data analysis, new AP will get their atleast 40% share of hyd revenues, owing to joint ownership for 10 years.

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 31 Jul 2013 22:45

The demands for more states will only grow, and the reason is quite straightforward. There is a lot of power at the state level, but local governments are much less powerful.

that's exactly the issue!! The Panchayat needs to have power to collect taxes, hire/fire policemen/doctors/teachers/lawyers and in charge of building their village infrastructure. Otherwise it will always be a loot coming from the top with Central and then state and then the Babus.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 31 Jul 2013 22:47

That is absolutely correct. Everyone want a share of pie in the loot. Decentralisation of power and empowering local bodies would help in big way. 73rd amendment was not put into effect properly and local bodies lack real effective power. We fear that giving power to people would reduce power of privileged few.

Sridhar · Post by **Sridhar** » 31 Jul 2013 22:54

BTW, what really worries the ordinary Seemandhra folks that have invested in properties in Hyderabad? Do they realistically think that they will be forced to relocate? The people who do have to worry are Seemandhra politicians who misused their positions to get land and natural resources at a throwaway price or through appropriating others' property. They will be replaced by new politicians from Telengana. The loot will shift to new people. But from an economic perspective, will the ordinary Seemandhra person be worse off in any way? I recognize the emotional arguments, but my question is not about that.

ShyamSP · Post by **ShyamSP** » 01 Aug 2013 00:59

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 7#p1490117

^^ Good post. As state split is parliament process, they can vote for new funding options. I haven't researched at this time on where they can get those large funds.

Sridhar wrote:BTW, what really worries the ordinary Seemandhra folks that have invested in properties in Hyderabad? Do they realistically think that they will be forced to relocate? The people who do have to worry are Seemandhra politicians who misused their positions to get land and natural resources at a throwaway price or through appropriating others' property. They will be replaced by new politicians from Telengana. The loot will shift to new people. But from an economic perspective, will the ordinary Seemandhra person be worse off in any way? I recognize the emotional arguments, but my question is not about that.

For looters, it is no big deal, they had paper value, say 100 crores, it might be 90 crores. They are less likely to sell in any of the prime areas where industries/airports/tech parks are there.

For ordinary folks it may be tough as they have to compete with new T-ordinary folks. T leaders promised many *impossible* things to ordinary folks and they can direct ire at other ordinary folks with them being in control in Hyderabad. Many relatively well-off non-T folks have option to "buy" the security service. Poor non-T will have to use their own muscle to survive.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 01 Aug 2013 01:22

Chindu reports
Rayala Telangana was red herring

It should not surprise anyone if the Congress jettisons the concept of Rayala-Telangana after the string of top-level meetings it has lined up for Tuesday as it has served and outlived the intended purpose -- diversion from the core issue.

Those closely following Telangana developments knew it was meant to keep the people and the squabbling Congress leaders of the three regions busy fighting for and against Rayala-Telangana while the Centre proceeded undisturbed with its job of garnering support for bifurcation. In effect, Rayala-Telangana was a red herring, given a veneer of respectability by dusting it out of Justice Srikrishna Committee’s report (Option 3).

Falling for it

Some leaders of Rayalaseema, who were in the frontline of those demanding a united State, fell for this theory hook, line and sinker and distanced themselves from the Seemandhra camp, just when it was beginning to get a sense of urgency and unity. They did a U-turn by saying their first preference was united Andhra Pradesh, second Greater Rayalaseema but they offered to fall in line if the Congress high command decided in favour of Rayala-Telangana.

What the Congress leaders in Delhi actually had in mind ever since the beginning but did not leak out to the media was something closer to Option 5 of the committee’s report. It recommended clear “bifurcation of the State into Telangana and Seemandhra as per existing boundaries with Hyderabad as the capital of Telangana and Seemandhra to have a new capital”.

...

and

a selection of opinions from ordinary folks who wrote to Hindu

The Bifurcation Complex word for splitting!

The bifurcation

A separate State of Telangana was a historic inevitability. The demand dates back to the days of States’ re-organisation. People of the region were near-unanimous in their view and there was no reason their regional aspirations should not have been fulfilled. People of Rayalaseema and coastal Andhra did not have any objections based on sound reasoning to counter the demand for Telangana.

The Congress, which committed itself to the formation of a separate state a decade ago, dilly-dallied for no valid reason. It dragged its feet despite support from almost all parties. It maintained a stoic state of inaction, wishing away the issue and showing knee-jerk reactions whenever there was a bandh or agitation for Telangana. Much of bloodshed and ill-will between the regions of Andhra Pradesh could have been averted by prompt and determined action.

S.V. Venkatakrishnan,

Bangalore

The six decades-old demand, which was outright rejected by Indira Gandhi, has at last been granted. The aspirations of the people of Telangana for self-rule have become a reality with a bang. They started the struggle for a separate state due to severe backwardness and negligence. The struggle for Telangana became an agitation for self-respect. It has ended with the division of Andhra Pradesh.

J.P. Reddy,

Nalgonda

The legitimacy of the demand for a separate Telangana was beyond dispute. The UPA government should have risen above narrow political calculations to evolve a consensus on the boundaries and capital of the new State. After stoking the fire by its unilateral announcement on the formation of Telangana in 2010, the government was left with no option other than crossing the Rubicon.

T.K.S. Thathachari,

Bangalore

Successive governments of Andhra Pradesh, right from its formation in 1956, dealt a raw deal to the people of Telangana. Thanks to their political wizardry, Congress Chief Ministers Kasu Brahmananda Reddy and Rajasekhara Reddy were successful in controlling the Telangana agitation. It is wrong to argue that by creating smaller States, the nation is moving away from integration. Many States have been formed since 1950.

The people of Seemandhra, on the other hand, have been fooled since 1972 when the agitation for a separate Andhra was foiled. Politicians made them believe that only an integrated state was in their (read politicians’) interests. As a result, Visakhapatnam, with its natural harbour, and Vijayawada, which acts as a link between the north and the south, have suffered colossally at the hands of Hyderabad, thanks to lop-sided development policies.

Seshagiri Row Karry,

Hyderabad

I write this with a heavy heart as a unified Andhra Pradesh has become a thing of the past. The very sight of a Telangana map on television and in newspapers disturbs me. While I uphold the views of the people of the region for self-rule, I find the promise of rapid development by its political leaders rather unconvincing. Political opportunism is the only driving force behind the formation of Telangana.

Rayalaseema and Andhra did not have a strong political leadership to counter the “no-holds-barred” campaign for a separate Telangana. People belonging to the two regions committed the biggest blunder by investing all their money in Hyderabad, disregarding the development of Vijayawada, Tirupati and Visakhapatnam. As a common man, I can only appeal to the powers dividing the State to minimise the damage to the common man.

B.V. Kumar,

Nellore

It is celebration day for the protagonists of a separate State of Telangana and a sad day for integrationists. One thing is clear: the Congress transacted the deal in the way it wanted, not the way people desired. No political party called for a consensus or referendum or, for that matter, even a second SRC. The mode the Congress has chosen to proclaim statehood for Telangana will lead to a tumultuous situation. It has set a bad trend as groups calling for separate states will henceforth choose force as their tool to accomplish their chauvinistic goals.

K. Sai Prasanna,

Hyderabad

With Telangana becoming a reality, the old theory of linguistic base for the creation of States has been diluted and replaced by regional imbalance as the main criterion. If the government does not focus on the issue of regional imbalance, we will soon see a demand for more states. It will become a major challenge for the Centre.

Navneet Goel,

Roorkee

The decision of the Congress to bifurcate Andhra Pradesh is certainly not guided by love for the people of Telangana. It is purely out of political compulsion aimed at lifting the sagging morale of the party.

L.R. Moorthy,

Mumbai

The frequent creation of new states is fraught with high risks. It is a body blow to our national integrity, as new States will identify themselves more and more with parochial and linguistic sentiments rather than national values.

M.K. Vipin Kumar Nambiar,

Bangalore

In the 1970s, when people of both Telangana and Andhra agitated for an independent state, Indira Gandhi rejected the proposal saying that bifurcation on the principle of sentiment or backwardness cannot be considered. By not bifurcating the State then, the Centre denied the people of Seemandhra the opportunity to develop their own capital. They worked for 40 years developing Hyderabad. The abrupt decision to create a Telangana State now amounts to deceiving the other regions.

Satyanarayana Kakani,

Hyderabad

Hyderabad is definitely the bone of contention as the hopes and aspirations of people from Srikakulam to Kurnool are woven around it. They have invested their time, money and education in the city and, suddenly, they feel there is a vacuum.

P.S.S. Murthy,

Hyderabad

The Congress is well aware that without Andhra Pradesh’s contribution to its kitty, it cannot return to power at the Centre. The party has divided the State for its electoral gains.

S. Gopal,

Kakinada

It was my home till yesterday. But today, it is no longer mine. Born in the serene Telangana region and brought up in Hyderabad, I lived in the belief that I was one of those thousands of Telugu-speaking people who shared a unique bonding with all three regions of Andhra Pradesh, singing the same Ma Telugu thalli ki.

The UPA government is most insensitive. Instead of pacifying people and maintaining harmony, it has resorted to bifurcation to conquer the State leadership in the coming elections.

B. Kusuma,

Hyderabad

The Congress has kick-started the campaign for the Lok Sabha election by bifurcating Andhra Pradesh. The decision will divert the media’s attention from Narendra Modi and the BJP. But the Congress will vanish from the media soon, when the voice of those demanding an independent Vidharbha, Gorkhaland, Kodagu and the like becomes louder.

K. Kannappan,

Sivaganga

Icons mine only.

Vina just for the record why are you so

at Andhra Pradesh being split. You have been vehment about this since Dec 2009. You can have your views by why the extra glee? How did your family get affected from that? Would like to know the angst for it looks like its deep seated.

Fom what I know of you are Tamil origin from Kerala and settled in B'Lore after graduating from elite institutions in India and US.
So how and why are you bothered about far away Andhra Pradesh?

BTW you have caused a lot of grief to many members (not all Telugu) about this item.

You can choose to answer here or in OT thread.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 01 Aug 2013 02:02

A philosophycal essay on meaning of states

http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/a- ... 971018.ece

A state must have a higher purpose

The creation of Telangana will have meaning only if it creates a new language of inclusive politics, or else it will merely amount to another demarcation on the map

While creating a State called Telangana, the demand for which was first articulated and fought for half-a-century ago, has been smoother this time round compared to the botched attempt in 2009, it will be more difficult to construct or re-construct a new idiom in this new State. It will mean deconstructing the hitherto known and practised idioms of power, politics and the general socio-cultural ethos.

Idea of India

But that apart, some other issues come to mind in the context of ‘separate state’ movements anywhere in the country. The foremost is why there is such a sense of sanctity about the idea of India as we have come to accept today, if there is a universal idea of India? Or, to put it differently, is India merely about the number of States we have today, most of which were ‘made’ after independence along linguistic lines? Has the linguistic paradigm (with the language itself a more sanctified standardised version of the more dominant social groups) served well all the people in that state? When people talk about Telangana, what are they “relating to”? What are the metaphors that have been used for the region in the discourse on Telangana in the last two years? What suggestions do people make when they critique the idea of Telangana as a State, and what is the validity of these suggestions vis-à-vis the Indian nation as we have come to accept or assume or ‘get along’ with?

In 2009-10, a series of television programmes on the Telangana statehood question was organised and telecast by the Telugu channel, HMTV. The format was an outdoor, popular debate platform across Telangana, coastal Andhra and Rayalaseema regions of Andhra Pradesh. It was also touted as the longest running live debates telecast on any television channel in Asia. The metaphors that people used — across regions — were fascinating from a sociological and historical perspective. It led one to wonder what it is that people identify with — a region, a regional culture, an administrative entity, or an abstraction at its best, called State? One never hears of patriotism to a State as one does to a nation or an idea of a nation. So it was interesting to see words of patriotism and jingoism about the Telugu State, Andhra Rashtram and a mother image of Telugu, the language, and a universalised language at that.

Most often, people spoke of “divorce” (vidaakulu), and fights between “brothers”. In Telangana as well as other regions, the question asked in every debate was why when a wife wishes for a divorce, should she not be given it? Why force her to live with an exploitative husband? The wife was always Telangana while Coastal Andhra always got the exploitative husband image. But this was just one of the many metaphors. In one debate after the other, what became apparent was the way people related to the idea of a region, and how they articulated it politically. Sometimes, it laid bare the paradox of it all. For, if people evoked a history of a region in terms of its culture, language, customs, (bhasa, yasa), festivals, even histories of dynasties (Kakatiya, Nizam) in a pre-modern sense of the term, they looked for its resolution in the post-independence category of a State in a democratic (necessarily democratic, for there were never any other possibilities expressed other than elections, Bill in Parliament, etc.) way.

Hence, what is a State? And where does the idea of a region encompass the idea of an ‘evolution’ or metamorphosis into a state? But there were also other aspects — that of Telangana having been a State on its own before it was forced to be merged into the Andhra Pradesh we know of, since 1956. Where these views were expressed — and they have been expressed most often in political and intellectual circles — the idea of the history of a place seemed filled with yet another kind of paradox. For, which history do the people invoke and how far back in time does it go? In this sense, is it the history of the Nizam, and the Nizam’s Dominions or is it farther back in time during the several chiefdoms and monarchies the region saw? Then, where does the history of Telangana begin and what does it encompass?

Deeper questions

These were my thoughts as I observed the movement. But there are even deeper questions, which go beyond mere Telangana statehood and could be seen as significant markers for other regions that have been articulating a demand for statehood, including in the north-east and elsewhere. The movement that became political articulation for a state started not with the idea of a politico-physical entity, that is State (with a capital S), but a historico-cultural, and very much located, rooted region. Wherever these demands have been made, the metaphors of resistance have close resonance to the idea of fighting against colonisation and domination of a people and culture that became marginalised. In Andhra Pradesh, the increasingly standardised Telugu-ness built over a period, post-Andhra 1960s, was no less responsible for Telangana people feeling marginalised.

Telugu cinema, All India Radio programmes (the radio plays, or even the programme called Paadi Pantalu with an overtly Rayalaseema tone to the conversations between a Peddiah, and a Chinamma) in Hyderabad, theatre, music and other platforms overplayed the standard dominant Telugu-ness, marginalising not just the Telangana language — it was usually referred to as a ‘mere dialect’ — or culture, but even agrarian systems. A water-intensive and paddy-cotton-focussed agrarian rhythm replaced dryland, rain-fed non-paddy agriculture. Food culture too changed drastically over a long period of this domination of one region (or two) over the other. The regions in question being coastal Andhra, specifically, with its water-based history and culture, and its industrial and outward looking history (since colonial times) and later Rayalaseema (with a primary upper caste group becoming predominant and holding power in successive governments). In the case of Telangana, there was a perceived feeling of a people’s cultural ethos — even though the people belonged to different castes and communities. There was an overarching Telangana identity they invoked, which lay in many such marginalisations —food culture, language, and an unequal economic development compounded the problem.

Will the creation of Telangana stall the Polavaram dam, which is obviously heavily tilted towards provision of water for industry and development in the coastal corridor of A.P.? Nearly 80 per cent of the submergence happens to be in the Telangana region (in Khammam district). Will the new Telangana state be about re-imagining a State far more inclusive than Andhra Pradesh state has been, in development of rural areas outside Hyderabad? Will it give the Dalits and tribal communities far more representation in constructing this new State? Will it revert to the agrarian regime that was indigenous to it? And bring to the mainstream the food culture that has now become a mere fad (jonna rotti, etc.)? And, at the same time, will it allow for diversity to be its mainstay rather than a monolithic universal economic ethic?

In the larger scheme of things, when states are created, they do not necessarily translate into representation and acknowledgment of pluralistic traditions. Will Telangana show the way for a pluralistic context instead of an overarching dominant caste and class based polity? If it is the latter, it will be far more difficult to construct a new idiom for this State, and it might just become another physico-political entity. Another number in our federal structure, another demarcation on our map of India.

(The writer is an independent journalist based in Hyderabad, awaiting publication of her book, When Godavari Comes: People’s History of a River)

To me history goes back to the Kakatiyas who revived the ancient Andhra empires. the defeat of Pratapa Rudra Deva allowed the Delhi Sultanates to make Telanghana (land of the Telangs). The rise of Vijayanagara allowed them to rule Rayalaseema and Coastal Andhra for which they competed with the Gajaptis of Kalinga.
The defeat at Talikota brought these Vijayanagara areas under the QutubShahis who in turn passed it Mughals and finally the Nizams. The second Nizam gave away the Northern Circars or Coastal Andhra to the English East India Company for helping him come to power in the palace intrigues. A latter successor gave away Rayalseema which are also called Ceded Districts.

Narender Luther in his book 'Hyderabad' writes about how ~15 % of Nizam's people managed to rule the 85% Telugus in Nizam dominions. Imagine the terror that they endured for so many centuries.

Operation Polo liberated Telangana from Nizam's rule thus ending ~600 years years of alien domination on the people of Telangana. The new state, for it had its own administration with MK Vellodi and finally elected CM Burgula Ramakrishan Rao, was merged ~ 9 years later. True there were some gaurantees which were observed more in breach than in strict accordance. The T elites happily got benefits: some became Dy CMs and CMs(all Velamas and one Brahmin) but hardly any resources were in the rural districts. No feudal reforms and life in countryside was still very oppressive. After this long spell under the domination most aam folks saw the Andhra spread or expansion as another phase of domination. And in this their angst was fed by monied non-Telugus who were in businesses in Old City. Eg. 1969 Telangana agitation leader was the Mayor Mrs. V. Naik! The funds were from a business man Bansilal Pittie. Deccan Chronicle was owned by some one else. Thinking back I recall the first agitation was launched during the Indira Gandhi-Syndicate wars in which N. Sanjeeva Reddy former first CM of AP was in the Syndicate group!

I truly hope that the people achieve self-determination and enjoy the new found self rule to be liberating and self acutalizing and not fall once again victims to manipulation by far away interests just as the old Sultanates and Mughals did from far away Delhi.

Meanwhile Ind Express ruminates!!!

But if UPA has a reason for a Telangana state that goes beyond short-term electoral math, it's kept it a secret

A decision on statehood for Telangana has been imminent since the UPA's midnight announcement of December 2009. What is bewildering is that the crisis mode that the Congress swung into then, having taken fright at TRS chief K. Chandrasekhar Rao's fast, still appears to continue to grip the party and its governments at the Centre and in Andhra Pradesh. The short-term calculations that informed trouble-shooting efforts then appear to be driving discussions now. This undermines the long-held and layered agitation for Telangana's aspirations, and threatens to leave the Centre witless against a fresh storm of demands for regional autonomy (some credible, many half-baked). This is not so much a cave-in to the arc of an agitation, as those who shaped Telangana's political identity would have desired. Given the drumbeat of an electoral calendar that the Congress looks to be heeding, it appears more like a desperate attempt to hold its own in the state by the limited strategy of distracting from its political failures.

Put simply, the distance the Congress is papering over is not from the simmering demands for Telangana since the 1960s. It is from Y.S. Rajasekhara Reddy's untimely death in 2009 and the party's subsequent inability to hold its own politically. Andhra Pradesh, ever since its formation, has been a unique administrative unit. Its birth nudged the country to work out a template for reorganisation on a linguistic basis. More importantly, it demanded an overarchingly cohesive politics from the state government to carry the project on. It is to the Congress's discredit that even after that possibly understandable lurch in December 2009, it did nothing to rework the Telangana demand into a coherent political dialogue in the state. There is a case to be made for smaller states, with the promise of enhanced political representation. There is, equally, a record of political instability that has wracked some smaller states. If an assessment on these lines informed the Centre's thinking on the bifurcation of Andhra, it was kept a well-guarded secret. Besides, the anxiety in different parts of the state and within the city itself about Hyderabad's status was never fully addressed, even after the Srikrishna committee gave all stakeholders a document on which to base their discussions on various options. There has been, for instance, little focus on developing other urban magnets, lest it be seen to undermine this or that party's claim to Hyderabad.

It is a matter of regret that the announcement for Telangana does not follow from proper homework. The government has a lot of catching up to do.

The INC wanted to ensure there are no new satraps like YSR in future to threaten the dynasty. All other states demanding such new states dotn have that capapbility now or in future. AP with 42 MPs was the largest Southern State. And all it needed was a good coaltion builder to reach across the other states and form a front. NTR showed the way but failed due to other factors.

VenkataS · Post by **VenkataS** » 01 Aug 2013 03:05

Sridhar wrote:BTW, what really worries the ordinary Seemandhra folks that have invested in properties in Hyderabad? Do they realistically think that they will be forced to relocate? The people who do have to worry are Seemandhra politicians who misused their positions to get land and natural resources at a throwaway price or through appropriating others' property. They will be replaced by new politicians from Telengana. The loot will shift to new people. But from an economic perspective, will the ordinary Seemandhra person be worse off in any way? I recognize the emotional arguments, but my question is not about that.

The expectation for common folks in Telangana (atleast as told by their leaders) is that once Telangana is formed all the Andhraites will leave for Andhra and that they will be given jobs formerly held by Andhra people. This might not pan out but it will have to be addressed some way or the other.

Another genuine grievance is that a lot of folks from the coastal districts and Rayalaseema sold their ancestral properties in their native villages and moved lock, stock and barrel to Hyderabad investing their savings in Hyd. Many have settled in Hyd for decades, their children were born in Hyd. It would be difficult for them to go back now as they have grown roots here. It was OK earlier because it was the same state. But now since the state is split the taxes from their investments which earlier would have gone to united AP now would go to the Telangana state. This would be mean their relatives in their native villages would not benefit from these funds.

Hyderabad contributes the major amount to the tax kitty of the state (a big portion of which is from the so called settlers) all of which will be lost to the new AP. The new AP will have to do with 40% of the Tax revenues of the united state while having 60% of the population.

Hyderabad has the highest (and best quality) number of educational institutions in the state including IIT, IIIT, ISB, Center for English and Foreign languages, University of Hyderabad, JNTU, OSMANIA which is a huge advantage in attracting future industrial investments. The new AP will have none of these advantages.

The entire Telugu film industry is based in Hyderabad.

There are other questions that need to be addressed as well:
Who is eligible for jobs in government institutions and seats in educational institutions in Telangana. Do you have to be born in Telangana to be eligible or is it that you would be eligible if you are a resident of Telangana (how many years would you need to live in Telangana to be a resident).
How are the river waters going to be shared going forward.
What happens to the current infrastructure related investments in the united AP which are ongoing or in the pipeline, who would pay for these investments.
What happens to the current institutions. Who inherits APSRTC, State board, SCR etc?
Who will pay for current investments in Hyd (like the metro, ORR etc)

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 01 Aug 2013 03:18

ShyamSP wrote: Many relatively well-off non-T folks have option to "buy" the security service. Poor non-T will have
to use their own muscle to survive.

You are making Hyderabad and T out to be some kind of wild west. They are neither more nor less prone to violence as everybody else in India.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 01 Aug 2013 03:35

Ramana garu,

while you remember the 1969 Telangana agitation, why must you forget the 1971 Jai Andhra movement? you do know what the aim of that movement was, don't you? when the Seemandhra elites got disturbed, they launched their own "divorce" movement, and booted out PVNR without any mercy. or have we forgotten that? and let's also discuss the specific issue which caused so much "angst" to the SA elites. selective editing and revising will only give half a picture.

also, you're signing glories of "kicking out people to Karnataka and Maharashtra" when Telangana was merged, as if it was some great deed.

and now, many here are crying that "Kosta people will get kicked out". no such thing will happen. but, how did those Marathi and Kannadiga people feel when they got kicked out by the Coastals?

I guess on issues that we hold dear, our inner feelings come out no matter what.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 01 Aug 2013 03:38

matrimc wrote:
ShyamSP wrote: Many relatively well-off non-T folks have option to "buy" the security service. Poor non-T will have
to use their own muscle to survive.
You are making Hyderabad and T out to be some kind of wild west. They are neither more nor less prone to violence as everybody else in India.

people like to believe in their own melodrama. we have folks boasting that the objective of AP was to be a "haven" for Telugu folks, as in, kicking out people from neighboring states; and the irony is that the same people now say "T people will kick us out".

just to reiterate my earlier point, there will be no "kicking out" anybody. I know this region. and unless there are underhanded forces that are working to foist some "agitation", there will be no conflict. but Congress has a long history of unleashing controlled violence to goad different sides into a conflict that by themselves they would never get into.

that's what I would watch out for.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 01 Aug 2013 03:42

ramana wrote:NTR showed the way but failed due to other factors.

He had many weaknesses - ego, caste related nepotism and dynastic tendencies. CBN broke the dynastic streak (after a coup in the family) which was brought back by YSR, I suppose. Putra (sometimes putri) moham has always been Indian polity's Bête noire.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 01 Aug 2013 04:12

personalities are only as good as their ideology. NTR's case is the same. to the extent that he was able to mold the TDP into a capable party with a solid base, it was mainly due to his "ideology". but the founding spirit has to get renewed by periodic infusion of ideas and new directions. many thought Naidu found that. but the urban folks received a shock in 2004. their idea of "new direction" was out of sync with the public's expectations.

Since then, it's been a downhill slide. at no point did Naidu show even the slightest indication of introspection and clear-headed assessment of why TDP lost. this might sound like an empty statement now, but I was an ardent supporter of that party in 2004, and the totally bottomless fall they suffered was as inexplicable to me as the BJP's own fall in that election. he has blamed BJP, Advani, RSS, Modi, and everybody else that there is to blame.