Phone, Tablet and Gizmo Thread #0x02

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 30 Jul 2013 23:28

Linksys is basically a cisco/bought over co.. but I have not experienced with it.. not a popular brand when compared to netgear, d-link and netz walas (for home onlee).

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 30 Jul 2013 23:29

Mihir wrote:Saar, that's not shutter lag, but the time it takes to unlock the phone and take the first shot. Any half-decent camera will have a shutter lag of less than a second.

No.

From CNet:

Since the Pro Cam app saves pictures in one small and one large resolution, the camera takes longer to reload. Instead of shot-to-shot times about 2.5 seconds apart, it's about a 6-second wait before the Lumia 1020 is ready for the next round.

Mihir · Post by **Mihir** » 31 Jul 2013 00:55

Shot-to-shot time isn't the same as shutter lag.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 31 Jul 2013 01:26

^^^In this instance since there is no mechanical shutter; so effectively it is the blackout time. What isn't clear is if this delay is also present if metering and focus are already pre-set.

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 31 Jul 2013 01:36

mahadevbhu wrote:Neela ji?

You formulate depositions and recipes for Intel?

Not for Intel. Small european company.
I sit between the fab house and internal design teams, preparing tools based on fab data for internal use and translate internal data that the fab can understand and produce.
In short, a sh1t shoveler.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 31 Jul 2013 02:08

Neela wrote: Not for Intel. Small european company.
I sit between the fab house and internal design teams, preparing tools based on fab data for internal use and translate internal data that the fab can understand and produce.
In short, a sh1t shoveler.

No you are not sh1t shoveler and are most valuable. I've not use tools for IC fabrication, but for multi-layer PCBs, and many times designs to PCB don't come out like you need and you've got to re-design and re-spin the boards. When I've used companies that have folks like you around, tremendous time and money has been saved. You're worth your weight in gold.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 31 Jul 2013 05:29

Neela wrote:
mahadevbhu wrote:Neela ji?

You formulate depositions and recipes for Intel?
Not for Intel. Small european company.
I sit between the fab house and internal design teams, preparing tools based on fab data for internal use and translate internal data that the fab can understand and produce.
In short, a sh1t shoveler.

kya ST?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 31 Jul 2013 05:49

taiwan has leaped and bounced in chip mftrg tech.. neela is doing a great job being the mediator and translator.. should be at the front end of automation and optimizations.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 31 Jul 2013 10:19

what is the fate of USMC(taiwan) and chartered semiconductor of singapore?

who are the top5 biggest contract fab cos in the world today?

has cheen managed to do any damage to this cozy ecosystem?

member_20292 · Post by **member_20292** » 31 Jul 2013 12:59

Neela wrote:
mahadevbhu wrote:Neela ji?

You formulate depositions and recipes for Intel?
Not for Intel. Small european company.
I sit between the fab house and internal design teams, preparing tools based on fab data for internal use and translate internal data that the fab can understand and produce.
In short, a sh1t shoveler.

I am jamaadaar too. But my background is matsci and all my PhD mates are in Intel/AMD/Shell.

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 31 Jul 2013 14:09

The big three are TSMC, Global and ~~USMC~~ UMC. ( By the way TSMC HQ and UMC HQ face each other across a 20ft wide street in Hsinchu, Taiwan. I got a pic of that )
TSMC is the big daddy at $17B sales. Global and UMC are in the $5B sales region.
Chartered got acquired by Global.
SMIC is the pure-play Chinese foundry company with sales in $1.5B region - they cater to the local market primarily.

Wrt Cheenis - not sure why SMIC isnt doing well. But just TSMC Fab 12, where we manufacture, has 615 customers and growing. I guess the large size , very good customer support, has a pull effect and SMIC are finding that hard to break.
Consider this- we asked for on-die inductors. Just a feasibility study. No business unit sanction from within the company ( as it requires extra prosessing steps -> more money) . The TSMC Fab 12 principal , a russian, does his own underground work ( also w/o his business unit sanction) and comes back in 2 months and does a comparison with Intel's on-die inducors and says he is 10% off in terms of performance and size, and if he gets a business unit sanction, he will put in more resources and get the performance to match.
Few other guys I have spoken to from other cos also say the same thing - TSMC really engages with its customers .

Saik is right. Taiwan is very prosperous today. The shift to high end electronics has really paid off. So much so , end-to-end can be realized within a 200km radius.
Taipei - nothing to complain about. Neat, good roads, all modern facilities everywhere.

RB, we recently acquired iWatt.

Mort ji, interesting that your call PCBs revisions as re-spin. We call it the same/or Engg.Change ORder (ECO) when we have to fix the die. But PCBs are further up the chain. We stop at die + package.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 31 Jul 2013 14:17

taiwan is also big on LCD / oled panels probably. some of their cos like hanns-g that used to supply soko/japani cos are big enough now to launch sales under OEM brand globally.
seems to be a country & culture that does a lot of work and talks less.

no wonder the cheenis have their undies in a perpetual knot hoping to claim this huge technology prize in the bag.

Adrija · Post by **Adrija** » 31 Jul 2013 14:31

Just out of curiosity- all ye hi-tech electronics hardware tek-neeki faith-fools (Neela,Mort, mahadevbhu, Raja Bose et al) - what would it take for desh to build a hi-tech hardware manufacturing cluster like Taiwan/ Unkil/ France? Are there any "core" set of areas which allow for us to be able to span the entire chain, all the way from design (fabless houses) to ODMs? Any good studies on how Taiwan did it and over what time?

Thanks a lot!

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 31 Jul 2013 19:28

Politicians getting their heads out their asses would be a great start.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 31 Jul 2013 20:28

If you look at the history of Silicon Valley, the electronics industry got a big boost from the late 1950s onwards due to US development in defense and aerospace coupled with quality higher education from the likes of Stanford and Berkeley. Similarly the areas around Boston have a lot of the same companies, but Boston has more quality higher education centers.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 31 Jul 2013 21:06

Prasad wrote:Politicians getting their heads out their asses would be a great start.

If I recall correctly they tried to do that in Chandigarh area even back in the early 1990s - I remember a dapper sardar heading the efforts and he gave some high-fundu presentation during one of the ITvity expos of that time.

First and foremost, one needs proper basic infrastructure.....roads, electricity, water. Next one needs proper import/tariff structures. There is no lack of SDREs in this area who have the expertise to get it all up but for that they don't need 2000 lbs of dead weight of babudom, low-level ghooskhori, pathetic infra and neta-giri to drag them down into the quagmire.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 31 Jul 2013 21:10

Neela wrote: Mort ji, interesting that your call PCBs revisions as re-spin. We call it the same/or Engg.Change ORder (ECO) when we have to fix the die. But PCBs are further up the chain. We stop at die + package.

Yeah boards are always re-spun. Don't ask me why.

When it comes to really miniaturized stuff which requires cutting edge board level design and fabrication, we found that chipandas are sorely lacking and we are getting our stuff done locally in Austin & other places. Till mobile phunwa level, chipandas are OK since they have figured out the mass manufacturing rote methods to make it e-khan-o-mical but anything below they haven't figured out yet (they will ofcourse).

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 31 Jul 2013 21:13

Mort Walker wrote:If you look at the history of Silicon Valley, the electronics industry got a big boost from the late 1950s onwards due to US development in defense and aerospace coupled with quality higher education from the likes of Stanford and Berkeley. Similarly the areas around Boston have a lot of the same companies, but Boston has more quality higher education centers.

Yet neither Boston nor Seattle nor NY area nor RTP nor TX have managed to match Sillycon valley....if anything the distance has increased. So what is that missing piece? Is it just a lead start and momentum? Is it something else?

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 31 Jul 2013 21:34

RB,

Every place has its strength. SV started from all of the spin offs from Fairchild, the Fairchildren were/are many many, in addition these companies fed back in to R&D instead of pocketing the monies. Once critical mass was achieved with big hardware and software companies, there was no turning back. Now, I don't know if the distance has increased, but CA politicos have mismanaged their state and have caused some damage. Boston has higher education from lots of great research schools. Austin, TX has good infrastructure, lots of land, low taxes & low cost of living, and everything is big in Texas.

I think SV owes a great deal to Robert Noyce and should erect statues of him all over the area like Mayawati once you cross the Yamuna from Delhi to Ghaziabad.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 31 Jul 2013 21:37

^^^Yeah but where are the results despite higher number of edu centers and everything being big?? They have had quite a lot of time to show results and if anything Sillycon valley is just getting more and more entrenched in maintaining its lead.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 31 Jul 2013 21:39

one key driver is most indic and cheeni immigrants prefer the warm sunny climate and wider job opportunities of SV vs any of the other regions. austin and RTP may have decent climates but not so much jobs. boston is bitterly cold most desis dont like living there.
if you look at SW cos in SV , a huge contingent is indic or cheeni.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 31 Jul 2013 21:42

^^^Tell me about it. I landed up in SV and 1st morning there I see mustachioed uncle, walking along El Camino Real nonchalantly scratching his mush, wearing lungi, rubber chappal and baniyan. Felt like home

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 31 Jul 2013 21:49

Raja Bose wrote:^^^Yeah but where are the results despite higher number of edu centers and everything being big?? They have had quite a lot of time to show results and if anything Sillycon valley is just getting more and more entrenched in maintaining its lead.

In the area of software and semiconductors that may be the case. I don't know about discrete electronic component development though and the big aerospace/defense contractors are spread out everywhere.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 31 Jul 2013 21:56

I would add that if starting out a new manufacturing facility, I would look at TX and NC. I don't know if SV will get considerable new manufacturing capacity.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 31 Jul 2013 22:00

Singha wrote:one key driver is most indic and cheeni immigrants prefer the warm sunny climate and wider job opportunities of SV vs any of the other regions. austin and RTP may have decent climates but not so much jobs. boston is bitterly cold most desis dont like living there.
if you look at SW cos in SV , a huge contingent is indic or cheeni.

Cost of living is higher in SV & Boston. And as you said, Boston has cold weather. With family, I don't think SV has good public schools for children like Boston, RTP or the suburbs of cities in TX.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 31 Jul 2013 22:07

Raja Bose wrote:^^^Tell me about it. I landed up in SV and 1st morning there I see mustachioed uncle, walking along El Camino Real nonchalantly scratching his mush, wearing lungi, rubber chappal and baniyan. Felt like home

what about punjaab de puttars sitting on street stone corners and chaiwaalaish group discussions at NJ?

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 31 Jul 2013 22:24

Mort Walker wrote:Cost of living is higher in SV & Boston. And as you said, Boston has cold weather. With family, I don't think SV has good public schools for children like Boston, RTP or the suburbs of cities in TX.

SV does have good schools. The entire swath from SF down to SJ has several cities with excellent schools - so much so that the top school districts have a $150K-$200K house price premium. You can literally have a collection of otherwise similar homes on either side of a street have appraised value that far apart, because one side of the street maps to the top school in the area, and the other to the less well-known one.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 01 Aug 2013 00:18

Mort Walker wrote:I would add that if starting out a new manufacturing facility, I would look at TX and NC. I don't know if SV will get considerable new manufacturing capacity.

That's the thing....the main value addition activities are still largely centered in SV. Manufacturing and discrete electronic component development are completely commoditized.

In Indian ITvity scene, people would go rah-rah about Bengaluru being the SDRE silicon valley - nothing could be further from the truth. Indigenous products are a miniscule part of India ITvity scene and not getting better.....majority of the industry is either slaving for other MNCs or the local branches of the MNCs are slaving doing minor errands for their Sillycon valley overlords. Most of the IP is still developed and locked here and that situation needs to change. One of my school buddies just moved from Chacha's Bengaluru office to Mountain View and complained about the exact same thing as the reason why he jumped back to massa.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 01 Aug 2013 01:48

Raja Bose wrote:
Mort Walker wrote:I would add that if starting out a new manufacturing facility, I would look at TX and NC. I don't know if SV will get considerable new manufacturing capacity.
That's the thing....the main value addition activities are still largely centered in SV. Manufacturing and discrete electronic component development are completely commoditized.

The main value addition for a product is indeed important, but manufacturing brings ancillary industries and becomes an economic growth engine for the locality. Both of these go hand-in-hand. SV started out with semiconductors and electronic components and moved up the value chain. Companies like Applied Materials and Samsung have recently opened high-end manufacturing in Austin, TX as opposed to SV. Much of the R&D for companies like Varian (CPI) and Analog Devices, again both out of SV, is in the Boston area.

For new developments, such as in battery technology or quantum computing, I'm not sure they will be in SV.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 01 Aug 2013 01:56

^^I am not talking about what brings value to the local economy - that is a different topic. What I am talking about is in ITvity despite tries by Seattle/Boston/NYC/RTP/TX areas over so many years, the new companies by and large still incubate in Sillycon valley. An easy way to see this is the continued & increased migration of startups which are founded elsewhere in the country or abroad, to the Sillycon valley. I am yet to see any startup founded in Sillycon valley migrating in the other direction to other parts of the country. So what is that missing piece which is causing this phenomena?

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 01 Aug 2013 02:00

Suraj wrote:
Mort Walker wrote:Cost of living is higher in SV & Boston. And as you said, Boston has cold weather. With family, I don't think SV has good public schools for children like Boston, RTP or the suburbs of cities in TX.
SV does have good schools. The entire swath from SF down to SJ has several cities with excellent schools - so much so that the top school districts have a $150K-$200K house price premium. You can literally have a collection of otherwise similar homes on either side of a street have appraised value that far apart, because one side of the street maps to the top school in the area, and the other to the less well-known one.

I'm sure they are good schools, but you have to put it in relation to other places mentioned. If there is a $150K difference between similar houses on the same street due to differences in the school attendance map, then there is something seriously wrong in that locality. There can be differences from town to town, but that level of disparity is disturbing.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 01 Aug 2013 02:03

Raja Bose wrote:^^I am not talking about what brings value to the local economy - that is a different topic. What I am talking about is in ITvity despite tries by Seattle/Boston/NYC/RTP/TX areas over so many years, the new companies by and large still incubate in Sillycon valley. An easy way to see this is the continued & increased migration of startups which are founded elsewhere in the country or abroad, to the Sillycon valley. I am yet to see any startup founded in Sillycon valley migrating in the other direction to other parts of the country. So what is that missing piece which is causing this phenomena?

You are only seeing start ups in IT related industries. What about other industries? In the US, from what I understand, there are more oil & gas related startup companies than any other industry. These too have many desis in them who are Pee Chaadies in that field too.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 01 Aug 2013 02:28

Raja Bose wrote:^^^Tell me about it. I landed up in SV and 1st morning there I see mustachioed uncle, walking along El Camino Real nonchalantly scratching his mush, wearing lungi, rubber chappal and baniyan. Felt like home

Very similar experience for me. Although it was a few weeks after I landed here. And Singha is right about the climate. SV probably has the best climate in the US as far as SDRE's (and probably Cheenis,Vietnamese,etc. too) are concerned. Very mild winters and warm summers which appear mild to SDRE's who grew up getting baked everyday in Indian cities.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 01 Aug 2013 02:47

Adrija, Polticians have to get out.
Story from early 2000s. Intel wanted to setup a chip plant in Hyd hitech city as many emplyees are Telugus. So made the offer to CBN the CM at that time. The guy says why not in Vizag! Turns out he had bought a lot of land there!

Intel says no thanks as there is not even an airport and opens it in Israel.

Story could be just that but OTH could be true.

MW you are right about schools in SV. Only Cupertino has good schools others are just average. Most kids get into second tier UC or State uty system.

Very rare to get into Stan or UCB level.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 01 Aug 2013 02:56

Adrija wrote:Just out of curiosity- all ye hi-tech electronics hardware tek-neeki faith-fools (Neela,Mort, mahadevbhu, Raja Bose et al) - what would it take for desh to build a hi-tech hardware manufacturing cluster like Taiwan/ Unkil/ France? Are there any "core" set of areas which allow for us to be able to span the entire chain, all the way from design (fabless houses) to ODMs? Any good studies on how Taiwan did it and over what time?

Not end-to-end but a fab was proposed in Hyderabad a few years back by a group. Total cost was to be $2-3 Billion but the group proposing it did not have deep enough pockets to push it through and the whole thing fell through, IIRC.

Chandighar 's tech was(still is?) not even sub-micron. US went sub-micron several years before and starting around 1995 they were into what was then called deep sub-micron (approximately 300 nm down to 100 nm feature sizes). Is it at 22nm, 19nm or 13nm now?

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 01 Aug 2013 03:07

Regarding schools, in our town, there was a north-south divide. African-Americans sued the district and got "school of choice" law which let anybody apply to any school in the district and assignments are based on distance between school and home. Students are "bus"ed to-and-from schools. Worked out well AFIK.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 01 Aug 2013 03:11

ramana wrote:Adrija, Polticians have to get out.
Story from early 2000s. Intel wanted to setup a chip plant in Hyd hitech city as many emplyees are Telugus. So made the offer to CBN the CM at that time. The guy says why not in Vizag! Turns out he had bought a lot of land there!

Intel says no thanks as there is not even an airport and opens it in Israel.

Story could be just that but OTH could be true.

MW you are right about schools in SV. Only Cupertino has good schools others are just average. Most kids get into second tier UC or State uty system.

Very rare to get into Stan or UCB level.

Ramana Garu,

Nothing wrong with 2nd tier UC, State University or community college. It is what you decide to do and where you go to graduate school. Getting in to Stan madrassa or UCB is challenge anywhere.

I had an offer from Yech Pee before becoming Agilent in the 1990s to come out to SV. At that time my kids were still little and I talked to some people out there who said to send kids to private schools. One friend I know at that time left SV and took up a research job on the east coast because of better public schools. The cost of living is high, but the scenery is wonderful. It was that and not the schools which made me decide not to consider the offer seriously.

Abhijeet · Post by **Abhijeet** » 01 Aug 2013 03:23

SV is SV because of the concentration of capital and talent. Startups tend to cluster together and the effect is self-reinforcing. It's hard for Boston or Austin to catch up in terms of sheer numbers.

The clustering effect is also why there are micro-regions within the Bay Area where startups are disproportionately represented. Currently the SoMa area of SF is one of those hot spots. Startups migrate there from other areas of the Valley regularly. In contrast, drive around San Jose or Santa Clara and you'll see mostly mature, slow-growing companies like Intel and Cisco.

A key component in getting startups off the ground is mentorship from people who've done it before, and the Valley culture of successful founders turning angel investors as soon as they get an exit (or even before) is an important part of this.

I know people who have raised money in the Valley and others in Austin, and the typical investor profile is different. Money is money but investors who have "been there done that" are more valuable. There are just a lot more of them in the Valley.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 01 Aug 2013 03:37

Mort Walker wrote:
Raja Bose wrote:^^I am not talking about what brings value to the local economy - that is a different topic. What I am talking about is in ITvity despite tries by Seattle/Boston/NYC/RTP/TX areas over so many years, the new companies by and large still incubate in Sillycon valley. An easy way to see this is the continued & increased migration of startups which are founded elsewhere in the country or abroad, to the Sillycon valley. I am yet to see any startup founded in Sillycon valley migrating in the other direction to other parts of the country. So what is that missing piece which is causing this phenomena?
You are only seeing start ups in IT related industries. What about other industries? In the US, from what I understand, there are more oil & gas related startup companies than any other industry. These too have many desis in them who are Pee Chaadies in that field too.

Saar, yeh phunwa-gizmo dhaaga hai, to ITvity ki baat hi karenge na?

Silicon Valley is not known for oil and gas unless its bio-gas so my scope of discussion was limited to ITvity onlee.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 01 Aug 2013 03:41

^^^Bahut tara tara ki gizmo hoti hai. ITvity akela nahi hai.