Indian Autos Thread

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 06 Aug 2013 07:07

such toll booth backups are commonly seen even in massa at busy places like garden state parkway, I-95 and NJ turnpike. hope they have kept wide emergency/breakdown lanes for fire fighters and cranes to get into action for accidents and breakdowns.
this has NOT been done in any of the elevated roads in blr so far ! I imagine the calculation is fire brigade will raise a ladder from service road below for the rescue.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 06 Aug 2013 07:22

nachiket wrote:
Suraj wrote:The hallmark of progress - the image of the multilane intracity highway filled with cars that we all love
http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18vmuar ... bigpic.jpg
Photoshopped I tell you! No city in India has drivers who show this much lane discipline.

Wow, 7 lanes each way

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 06 Aug 2013 08:35

In some parts of the beltway in DC and other roads like I-66 there are sections which have no shoulders. Emergency vehicles still squeeze in between vehicles in adjacent lanes easily. It can be done even on elevated roads with single lanes like entry and exit ramps as usually some amount of shoulder is left on either side, even if not of full lane width.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 06 Aug 2013 12:12

First Update: 11:32 AM IST

The car has completed 100 km (as per GPS) since the start in the morning and has crossed Tumkur. The brilliant engine from Renault is running smooth. Our team, especially Bunny and Meghan are enjoying the weather with the Air Conditioning system switched off to save more fuel. The elevation of the car is 2666 feet as per GPS device and the the average speed at the moment is 45.9 km/hour. The car is returning a staggering fuel economy of 41.4 km/l. As of now, it seems the record of AutoCar would not be something to worry about. The car is doing good and the next update would come in next 100 km, that will be after two hours.

http://www.gaadi.com/blog/gaadi-com-att ... or-mileage

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 06 Aug 2013 15:59

> Emergency vehicles still squeeze in between vehicles in adjacent lanes easily

imo american lanes are wider than indian lanes. so a police car could squeeze in, but not here...

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 06 Aug 2013 21:33

RamaY wrote:
nachiket wrote:quote="Suraj"]The hallmark of progress - the image of the multilane intracity highway filled with cars that we all love
http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18vmuar ... bigpic.jpg
Photoshopped I tell you! No city in India has drivers who show this much lane discipline. /quote]

Wow, 7 lanes each way

I like the ratio of 4 wheeler : 2 wheelers : #of people crossing.

emergency lanes are separate in massa depending on the infrastructure point - example circular city ring routes, etc.. sometimes massan cops use the wide shoulder as emergency lane. interstates anyway, a separate lane is not required.

btw, tell me if we have a plan for emergency? are we that proactive?

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 07 Aug 2013 11:55

SaiK wrote:btw, tell me if we have a plan for emergency? are we that proactive?

From what I have seen, on the tolled NHs which I pass through (mainly in TN) there seems to be a provision to allow emergency vehicles to pass through. There is a dedicated lane on the far end, and generally NHAI themselves have a few emergency vehicles kept close by. Most of them are ambulances and recovery trucks, have not seen fire engines.

I have not seen such a facility in the toll booth at the KAR-TN border crossing area. Here it is pretty much chaos, with vehicles deliberately jumping the queues. Especially on week ends, umpteen number of lines are formed up and they all try to merge right in front of the 4-5 booths they have. Neither the company operating the toll booth or the Karnataka Police seems to be bothered with this at all.

In the elevated highway (on top of Hosur Road), I have read about accidents happening and the entire road getting blocked. Attempts are made to send the ambulance on the opposite side (with I guess Traffic police vehicles going ahead to warn the oncoming traffic). But there is no much option to switch over to the side in which the accident victims lie. This tolled elevated high-way also do not have any marked lines for emergency vehicles. At the toll booth, they generally block one booth (the one which has an automatic sensor to deduct tolls). And when an emergency vehicle arrive, the unblock this path and let the vehicle pass through.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 09 Aug 2013 22:24

first of all, the lane discipline works in massa because of standardization of sizes of the automobiles.. for the lanes.. simply it is impossible for two vechicles to go side by side. plus, the severe penalty of doing crazy things.

if we have ton of vehicle types, animal types, generation of vehicle types to share the road, no amount of emergency can work. its phucked up right from the planning stage.

long way!

vera_k · Post by **vera_k** » 12 Aug 2013 04:48

Singha wrote:VW has someone become one of the largest auto cos in the world now. so their engineering cant be all that bad if such sales volume.
they have turned around audi for sure and generally lead bmw and merc in sales in most major markets , even in small markets like india they have moved ahead.

When we used to have IC powered cars, we had a VW and a Hyundai. The VW was made in Mexico, the Hyundai in Korea. The Hyundai was the more reliable car hands down. The Hyundai was trouble free, and I later learnt that the Hyundai did not even get an oil change in 6 years and 40,000 miles. The VW was another story altogether, and was constantly battling some issue or the other (MAF sensor, windows, ignition coils, PCV hoses, brakes). To VW's credit much of this was fixed under warranty, but the warranty was much shorter than the Hyundai's.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 19 Aug 2013 17:27

ChandraV wrote:1. Mileage is horrible. On the highway, I got only 11.5 kmpl, and in Bangalore city, I get only 10.5.

Was it after before your mandatory servicing etc. done? Generally I hear that the engine would take some time to settle down, and mileages can change after that. For me City driving, I don't have to do it every day. I use rural roads to reach parts of the city

.

2. Air conditioning isn't as powerful as one would hope for - it takes a significant amount of time to cool the interior.

Hmm.. need to check this out. But 90% of the time the vehicle would be for 1 passenger + 1 driver.

3. Looks are subjective, so I will not even discuss the looks here. But the interiors etc. aren't really great - it has functional interiors, but nothing extraordinary. But then again, what can you expect for 8 lakh?

More than happy. I am really not a vehicle buff, or overtly bothered with interior designs, colour etc. etc. It has to be practical and easy to operate. At the moment I am looking for a practical vehicle, which would reduce my travel costs & maintenance costs. Personally me and SHQ do prefer vehicles like the good old Mahindra Jeep. But keeping with the times a bit of a luxury like an AC, some strong body/cabin etc. would certainly make us a bit more happy.

4. Mahindra customer service isn't anywhere close to Hyundai/Maruti, and this is well-known. Small and minor niggles like creaks in the front seat etc. were not rectified during first service, even after I specifically told them to.

I know

. The folks are now not very confident in giving any firm commitment on the delivery.

5. City driving is tough. Crawling through slow-moving traffic in first gear is punishing on the leg muscles. City driving is a pain, and this is an understatement. But if one is choosing an SUV, I guess one would be prepared for such issues.

Hmm.. one advantage many people stated was the "Hybrid" feature as well as Quanto's ease of use in the cities.

neerajb · Post by **neerajb** » 23 Aug 2013 17:29

Alto K10 scores zero in crash test

Video in the link.

http://www.zigwheels.com/news-features/ ... est/17026/

Cheers....

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 23 Aug 2013 21:32

^mmm... huh! you don't need to take it to crash test and disgrace our babooze like that. a normal fist like mine can break its body structure just using some small bending force. bring your car to me, so that i can demonstrate it.

Abhijeet · Post by **Abhijeet** » 24 Aug 2013 04:09

Does India not have crash test ratings for cars? I don't remember any car being advertised in India with anything like the equivalent of the "5-star NHTSA rating" that most car ads include in the US. The kmpl is always prominently advertised.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 24 Aug 2013 05:04

if India has crash standards, then most aam cars below 10L will have to be shutdown except a few like the old amby etc.

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 24 Aug 2013 15:53

Abhijeet wrote:Does India not have crash test ratings for cars? I don't remember any car being advertised in India with anything like the equivalent of the "5-star NHTSA rating" that most car ads include in the US. The kmpl is always prominently advertised.

As of now India does not need any new regulations. We are already way too over regulated.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 25 Aug 2013 01:12

when city traffic itself is a big bottleneck when in the heck people can spend money on crash safety cars? improving the safety and requirements mean that we up the requirements and push the bar to massan standards.. right from roads to services.

not even in another 1000 years. sorry to be feeling so low.. but that is the ground reality from economy, planning and future outlook.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 25 Aug 2013 08:27

Amby will be a miserable failure in any modern crash test. it has no crumple zones to absorb impacts and nothing like airbags.
a lot of other cars here do not have airbags but atleast their design is with crumple zones and other safety features to hopefully prevent the engine compartment intruding into the passenger area on impact...this is a test even most cars in massa will fail..except the heavies like S600 mercs.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 25 Aug 2013 08:36

okay.. searched for a report.. it is a modified nano though.

The test vehicles were crashed in a 50 km/h side impact collission, and a 56 km/h offset frontal impact test. Factory installed modifications included additional foam at the cant rail, reinforcements across the length of the body, and more girth built into the front bumper and two front doors.

Test examiner Nic Fasci said, "It looks no different from other cars doing this test. It’s a good crash." Fasci works with the Vehicle Certification Agency in the United Kingdom.

Passing these tests are the first step in bringing the Tata Nano to European shores by 2012. These same standards will eventually be enforced by the Indian government. A North American version is also a possibility. Future versions of the Nano could include standard airbags, and increases to the length and width to accommodate the modifications.'

http://www.worldcarfans.com/10907152049 ... ests-video

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 25 Aug 2013 12:32

The biggest safety feature is the driver. We have no control on that. Drunk drivers and incompetent and inexperienced drivers plague our roads.

Yesterday, in perundurai, near Erode, a college guy buys car days ago, speeds and crashes into and kills a college guy on cycle (from poor family whose parents are daily laborers) and tries to speed away and crashes into a husband wife couple on moped and kills them too and then falls over into a ditch before killing any more...

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 31 Aug 2013 14:43

Gus wrote:The biggest safety feature is the driver. We have no control on that. Drunk drivers and incompetent and inexperienced drivers plague our roads.

Yesterday, in perundurai, near Erode, a college guy buys car days ago, speeds and crashes into and kills a college guy on cycle (from poor family whose parents are daily laborers) and tries to speed away and crashes into a husband wife couple on moped and kills them too and then falls over into a ditch before killing any more...

I hate these college bus drivers , they think they own the road, more horrible than those autos...

Sagrawal · Post by **Sagrawal** » 18 Sep 2013 19:08

Cancelled my booking of Ford Ecosport. Ford increased prices and offered no price protection to customers who prebooked. I was foolish to trust an American brand, going back to Japanese or may be Korean.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 25 Oct 2013 06:02

vina wrote:
prohibited hero honda, not hero, which is an independent entity over which honda had no say.
Believe me. People negotiating such deals are not idiots. They would have put in language putting in conditions for any related entity from doing so as well. When hero signed the deal with Honda, they made nothing but bicycles and some crappy mopeds and they would have signed on the dotted line . And any violation of terms would have led to immediate suspension of tech and product support and pipeline, leading you to get flushed down the Pakistan.

In fact, this was the same reason why the Escorts JV with Yamaha ran into big time trouble. Escorts started using the Yamaha derived knowledge base in upgrading the Rajdoots of old and Yamaha pulled the plug.

Bajaj and TVS basically told Kawasaki and TVS to go jump. In fact one of the most revered Con-Sultans , MuckNSee , advised Bajaj that they should not develop Pulsar and the Cruiser models because it would "antagonize" Kawasaki. Rahul Bajaj put MuckNSee in the dustbin and told Kawasaki where to get off. Same with Maruti. MuckNSee told Maruti that the Swift was "too expensive"/"too blah blah whatever" for some segmentation for the Indian market and that it would fail. Maruti put that in the dust bin as well, and everyone knows what a smash hit Swift and it's derivatives are for Maruti and a massive cash cow.

A lot of Strat-e-jee can be too clever by half. The question is, do you have the Cojones to tell your major technology supplier and a key determinant to your competitiveness, sales and profits to F****off and come up with a superior product within a window which the market will bear , or do you just take the bird in the hand and be finally forced by policy changes (like govt fully opening out the 2 wheeler market and the non compete agreements with the tech supplier ending, allowing him to open a fully owned subsidiary to compete head on with you) to do so , like what happened in Hero's case.

I would argue that Bajaj and TVS are far better off by booting out Kawasaki and Suzuki when they did that nearly a dozen years ago. They took the short term pain , but came out trumps.

sure they would have prohibited tech sharing from HH side to hero but beyond that hero was free to do its own thing. in fact they came out with a couple of bikes under hero name (and not HH) even when the HH JV was in full flow.
unfortunately munjal et al didn't show the vision that bajaj did. they could have done their own RnD independent of honda but didn't.
this policy continues to date.
after splitting from honda they picked a stake in EBR and their latest offerings feature a honda engine (they rights to use it till 2015) re-tuned by EBR. their future products would feature engines developed by EBR.

bajaj's case was different, it was rajiv bajaj who dragged the co kicking and screaming into the 21st century, fighting the old guard, including rahul bajaj in some cases.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 25 Oct 2013 19:55

renault duster seems to be selling very strongly in the 15L segment.

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 30 Oct 2013 19:00

Singha wrote:renault duster seems to be selling very strongly in the 15L segment.

Yes and at first I thought it surprising that it did. But it has many strengths, super ride, decent handling, decent interior space and lots of boot space and a lovely engine.

Pricing is the only negative point but at the rate at which it is selling, the company has a take it or leave it attitude.

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 30 Oct 2013 19:10

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 943993.cms

Horrific and disgusting bus accident kills over 40 people, including 5 techies. BTW, why would a bus catch fire just from hitting a railing of a culvert- did the gas tank strike head on to the railing and catch fire?? Could Volvo India be liable.

These accidents are just ridiculous. Can you imagine this in Canada, Switzerland or Japan, that too over and again? There has to be someone raising an alarm bell, at the highest level, instead of letting this problem slide.

manish · Post by **manish** » 30 Oct 2013 19:19

Varoon Shekhar wrote:http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 943993.cms

Horrific and disgusting bus accident kills over 40 people, including 5 techies. BTW, why would a bus catch fire just from hitting a railing of a culvert- did the gas tank strike head on to the railing and catch fire?? Could Volvo India be liable.

These accidents are just ridiculous. Can you imagine this in Canada, Switzerland or Japan, that too over and again? There has to be someone raising an alarm bell, at the highest level, instead of letting this problem slide.

I am still confused as to how a diesel tank can catch fire so easily as is being claimed. Perhaps one of the gurus can explain?

I sure hope someone checks out if the bus was carrying some flammable material as 'parcel' in its underbelly hold. That could perhaps be an explanation for the fire spreading so rapidly and so thoroughly through the bus.

Interestingly, it is only in aircraft and buses that you have a situation of passengers practically sitting on top of a pile of potentially dangerous, flammable material. But the air cargo business is quite strictly regulated unlike the private bus industry where anything goes.

Anyways, RIP to the departed.

Sriman · Post by **Sriman** » 30 Oct 2013 20:23

manish wrote: I am still confused as to how a diesel tank can catch fire so easily as is being claimed. Perhaps one of the gurus can explain?

I sure hope someone checks out if the bus was carrying some flammable material as 'parcel' in its underbelly hold. That could perhaps be an explanation for the fire spreading so rapidly and so thoroughly through the bus.

Interestingly, it is only in aircraft and buses that you have a situation of passengers practically sitting on top of a pile of potentially dangerous, flammable material. But the air cargo business is quite strictly regulated unlike the private bus industry where anything goes.

Anyways, RIP to the departed.

That's my question and guess too, saar.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 30 Oct 2013 21:40

The Fiberglass resin of the body panel is probably not fire resistant, it needs additives to make it resist fire, quite cheap as well. Probably Rs 1000 worth of additives per bus. It is only resistive however not flame proof.

As such the bus does not need any other flammable materials. The resin burns quickly and vigorously with noxious fumes that will knock folks out in a matter of seconds. Tragedy waiting to happen IMHO.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 30 Oct 2013 22:34

it is possible for the tank to catch fire - from the leak of hitting the culvert and the sparks from the friction.

These buses sometimes have two doors, the one where you enter the bus itself and the one where you get into the cabin.

I wonder if the driver/cleaner had the inner door locked and they just ran away after the accident without a thought for the poor passengers inside.

Typically, if the tank catches fire, you still have some precious minutes to act - to open the door and get as many out before flames engulf the whole bus. The crew should be arrested for criminal charges for letting their passengers die.

manish · Post by **manish** » 31 Oct 2013 06:22

Gus wrote:it is possible for the tank to catch fire - from the leak of hitting the culvert and the sparks from the friction.

These buses sometimes have two doors, the one where you enter the bus itself and the one where you get into the cabin.

I wonder if the driver/cleaner had the inner door locked and they just ran away after the accident without a thought for the poor passengers inside.

Typically, if the tank catches fire, you still have some precious minutes to act - to open the door and get as many out before flames engulf the whole bus. The crew should be arrested for criminal charges for letting their passengers die.

Thanks Gus.

BTW most (probably all) of the Volvo coaches that I have been on in India have not had a separate door for pax cabin unlike most of the Tata/AL-based buses.

I guess the rear-engined nature of the BXR series of buses makes the cabin separation somewhat redundant? They seem to make do with a bunch of curtains to keep out the oncoming headlights and (often scary) live telecast of driver's adventures right up front.

manish · Post by **manish** » 31 Oct 2013 06:43

X-posting from Nukkad:

manish wrote:
manish wrote:
From the TV screengrabs, it appeared to be a multi-axle model, meaning it is of fairly recent vintage(i.e. less than 3yrs or so) which means it is a complete Volvo product. Generally they seem to have decent specs and build quality and well marked emergency exits and strategically placed hammers to break open windows along the cabin walls, but looks like Jabbar bhai and co removed/opted out of (if that is possible) all these unnecessary jin-bang. This is just one of the many reasons why I avoid traveling with almost anyone other than the good sarkari services such as KSRTC or decent/organized pvt players like VRL.
Went back and checked on my own claims - looks like I remembered right. KSRTC seems to be the only major operator insisting on full-size Emergency Exit doors on all its buses.

Don't know about the kind of options that Volvo offers in terms of such safety features but I guess being the single largest operator of Volvo buses by far in the country, KSRTC also gets to easily dictate the specs/mods that they would like. Anyways here are a bunch of pics:

KSRTC Volvo B9R - note the full size emergency door - apparently putting these in costs 2 seats - something not kosher for everyone else apparently!

Kesineni - a favourite of many - a brand new, super long B11R here (14.5m length IIRC) - gotta break the windows (markings visible)

APSRTC

VRL - again no dedicated door:

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 31 Oct 2013 07:43

they do drive these crazy. these buses have the capacity to quickly accelerate to 100 kmph and maintain 120 even on slopes. once a bus passed me at what i estimated as 140. our roads and traffic is not in alignment for such operations.

as i keep saying...it is a miracle that blood does not flow like river in our roads. it is that bad.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 31 Oct 2013 08:00

bus accidents in US expways are almost always fatal. once these big dogs lose control there is no going back.
there are bunches of videos in youtube of speeding buses on mumbai-pune expway albeit that is better designed to deal with these F1 type antics.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyigRrMYeuI

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 31 Oct 2013 08:09

"they do drive these crazy. these buses have the capacity to quickly accelerate to 100 kmph and maintain 120 even on slopes. once a bus passed me at what i estimated as 140. our roads and traffic is not in alignment for such operations.

as i keep saying...it is a miracle that blood does not flow like river in our roads. it is that bad."

Why doesn't someone have the gumption or intestinal fortitude to say to the bus driver or bus company "I'm sure you( your driver is...) are a good driver, but speeds like that are very difficult to control, particularly given our Indian road conditions, and it will only endanger the safety of the passengers. Many accidents have occurred because of this very fast driving"

With all the accidents, too many not to notice, hasn't someone thought of using a little common sense?

Sagrawal · Post by **Sagrawal** » 31 Oct 2013 17:02

merlin wrote:
Singha wrote:renault duster seems to be selling very strongly in the 15L segment.
Yes and at first I thought it surprising that it did. But it has many strengths, super ride, decent handling, decent interior space and lots of boot space and a lovely engine.

Pricing is the only negative point but at the rate at which it is selling, the company has a take it or leave it attitude.

add poor roads as one more reason. Roads in Bangalore has too many speed breakers, potholes & craters so its good to have a SUV.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 31 Oct 2013 18:14

Varoon Shekhar wrote:Why doesn't someone have the gumption or intestinal fortitude to say to the bus driver or bus company "I'm sure you( your driver is...) are a good driver, but speeds like that are very difficult to control, particularly given our Indian road conditions, and it will only endanger the safety of the passengers. Many accidents have occurred because of this very fast driving"

you will be promptly asked to please get down. This request will come from your fellow passengers.

indians have a very severe case of 'this won't happen to me' thinking.

a few months ago, i was waiting in line at the petrol bunk. a guy in front of me, had his helmet sitting on the tank and not on his head, took off, lorry hits..the guys brains popped out and it was a horrible gut wrenching nightmarish sight..the kind that sticks with you to the grave. he was spot out.

the other guys filling up gas, watch this, STILL don't put on their helmets and take off from the bunk.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 31 Oct 2013 19:44

BTW the helmet is the only reason me & my dad are still walking this earth.
Please use when on a bike and make sure your wife & kids use them as well.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 31 Oct 2013 20:50

I have noticed over the years helmet enforcement has become lax again in blr after a spell in 2005-07 when police were pulling up offenders.
in rural areas nobody really even uses the token plastic construction helmet thing. they are more in danger due to speeding vehicles on highways passing near small towns and villages.

relax, chill, main hoon na - typical attitude.

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 01 Nov 2013 16:37

"you will be promptly asked to please get down. This request will come from your fellow passengers.

indians have a very severe case of 'this won't happen to me' thinking."

That's an awful attitude, given all the accidents that have occurred. One or two bad accidents in the last 20 years, *may* excuse such an attitude, but there seem to be 1 or 2 of these accidents every month, somewhere or other in India. It's inexcusable. It makes you wonder whether Indians have a concept of risk reduction. Of course, there's a risk one takes every time you go out on the road, even in advanced, more orderly countries. But the idea is to reduce the risk of injury or death by slower speeds, more attentive driving, seatbelts, defensive driving, overtaking only when necessary etc. Do Indians understand this at all when it comes to driving? I'm beginning to wonder. I also wonder about the training the bus drivers receive!

Hitesh · Post by **Hitesh** » 01 Nov 2013 18:24

I have come to the conclusions that if we want the behaviors of people to chance including their driving habits, we need to reform the court system to speed up the civil cases so that when companies get sued for vicarous liability and negligence, they will pay out in millions of dollars. And mandate that all companies get insurance. As a result of the fear of exposure to liability and greater risk leading to higher premiums, the companies will quickly clamp down on non-conforming drivers and pay more attention to road safety.