West Asia News and Discussions

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 03 Sep 2013 15:31

Alleged missile launch caused by Israeli Defense Ministry testing ABM system

Missile launch registered by Russia was caused by Israeli Defense Ministry testing its ABM system, Israel’s Defense Ministry states.

http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2013_09_0 ... stem-9613/

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 03 Sep 2013 15:37

It wont come as a surprise if the Israel will use the opportunity of US strikes to take out target of its choice using cruise missile or fighter aircraft ...there is no way Syria would ever know if the missile attack came from US Naval Ship/Aircraft or from Israel cruise missile/aircraft.

The 2 day period will be a free for all opportunity to take out its own choice of target on Syria and then put it at the door step of US.
Most likely the strike will be co-ordinated along with Israel.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 03 Sep 2013 15:42

Now we know from multiple sources that the gas used was Sarin and perhaps Syrian Army has a huge stockpile of it , How easy is it for the Rebels to make Sarin with chemicals that can be procured off the shelf ?

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 03 Sep 2013 15:51

didnt israel strike at some syrian chemical warfare facilities a few months back?

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 03 Sep 2013 15:52

I am sure that Jerusalem already knows the dates of the coming firework display over Damascus and is keeping its powder dry.No matter how many aerial displays are conducted,holding the ground is what matters in Syria. Any attack would also invite further dipl. and mil. support for Syrian from Russia and China.not to mention Iran,who hold the key to holding ground through the Hiz in support of Assad.Therefore the US has to substantially degrade the Syrian armed forces,who have by now relocated their key assets and are reportedly moving into schools and hospitals which they know is unlikely be attacked by the US.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 03 Sep 2013 16:30

Apparently this was the BM target tested by Israel

http://www.rafael.co.il/marketing/SIP_S ... 1/1171.pdf

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 Sep 2013 17:45

what if key syrian unit leaders are bribed enmasse with blank green cards for self and family instantly stamped on the spot? plus a bag of $100K to start a new life in america?

one must remember a lot of the iraqi generals in OIF were paid off not to fight. only a few fidayeen and repub guard units fought seriously, the rest registered their presence for 5 mins and melted away.

member_27444 · Post by **member_27444** » 03 Sep 2013 18:00

Historically many wars have been won by bribing than fighting

So yes green cards, green backs can turn back a lot of greens.

Hence we have Green Bay packers

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 03 Sep 2013 19:43

How does one describe this band of mercenaries? The equiv of Paki cross-border terrorists? The US has now openly acknowledged itself as being a terrorist nation.

Is the US also planning a paradrop/airborne assault of CIA trained terrorists as a dramatic gesture to restore morale among the "rebels" ? It is a certainty now that US special forces will also be fighting in Syria,leading the terrorist entities,adding to those already involved in covert ops.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... field.html

First Syria rebels armed and trained by CIA 'on way to battlefield'
The first cell of Syrian rebels trained and armed by the CIA is making its way to the battlefield, President Barack Obama has reportedly told senators.

Raf Sanchez in Washington

3:15PM BST 03 Sep 2013

During a meeting at the White House, the president assured Senator John McCain that after months of delay the US was meeting its commitment to back moderate elements of the opposition.

Mr Obama said that a 50-man cell, believed to have been trained by US special forces in Jordan, was making its way across the border into Syria, according to the New York Times.

The deployment of the rebel unit seems to be the first tangible measure of support since Mr Obama announced in June that the US would begin providing the opposition with small arms.

Congressional opposition delayed the plan for several weeks and rebel commanders publicly complained the US was still doing nothing to match the Russian-made firepower of the Assad regime.

Mr McCain has been a chief critic of the White House's reluctance to become involved in Syria and has long demanded that Mr Obama provide the rebels with arms needed to overthrow the regime.
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He and Senator Lindsey Graham, a fellow Republican foreign policy hawk, emerged from the Oval Office meeting on Monday cautiously optimistic that Mr Obama would step up support for the rebels.

"There seems to be emerging from this administration a pretty solid plan to upgrade the opposition," Mr Graham said.

He added that he hoped the opposition would be given "a chance to speak directly to the American people" to counter US fears that they were dominated by al-Qaeda sympathisers.

"They're not trying to replace one dictator, Assad, who has been brutal... to only have al-Qaeda run Syria," Mr Graham said.

The US announced in June, following the first allegations the Assad regime had used chemical weapons, that it would send light arms to the rebels but refused to provide anti-aircraft missiles and other heavy weapons.

American concerns were born partly out of the experience of Afghanistan in the 1980s, when CIA weapons given to the anti-Russian mujahideen were later used by the Taliban.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 03 Sep 2013 19:52

West is digging its own grave. More power to Obama.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 03 Sep 2013 20:05

Assad warns of mayhem in the aftermath of a US strike.There appears to be more fears that the US will induct large numbers of CIA trained terrorist mercenaries masquerading as "rebels".This is meant to simultanoeusly distract Assad's forces at several places stretching his ability to hold control over Damascus.The name of the game is "regime change",though denied by the US and co.If so,the entire region is going to erupt/There is simply no way that the Iranians will not react assymetrically in material/manpower support of Syria and draw in the Russians and Chinese further into ensuring the survival of the Assad regime.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 95289.html
Syria crisis: Middle East will 'explode' when Western strikes hit, warns Assad

France claim it has proof regime was behind chemical attack
John Lichfield
Monday 02 September 2013

The Syrian president Bashar al-Assad last night warned that the Middle East could “explode” if the United States and France pressed ahead with threatened air strikes on Syria.

In an interview with the French newspaper, Le Figaro, Mr Assad said: “The Middle East is barrel of powder and today the flames are creeping closer. It is not just a question of the Syrian response but what else might happen after the first (Western) air strike… Everyone will lose control of the situation when the powder barrel explodes”.

“Chaos and extremism will proliferate. The rise of a region-wide war is real.”

The comments come as Russia’s defence ministry informed President Vladimir Putin that two “ballistic objects” had been detected by its early warning radar system, according to news agencies in the country.

The missiles were reportedly fired from a point in the centre of the Mediterranean at 10.16am Moscow time (7.16am BST) this morning, “towards the eastern part of the coast”. While the Russian state RIA news agency quoted sources in Damascus as saying the missiles later fell into the sea, it will come as a warning to the Syrian government.

Speaking to Le Figaro’s veteran Middle East correspondent, Georges Malbrunot, Mr Assad denied that his regime was responsible for the poison gas attack on an opposition-held Damascus suburb on 21 August.

“Whoever accuses us must offer proof,” he said. “Neither Mr Obama nor Mr Hollande is capable of doing so, even to their own peoples.”

Mr Assad refused to confirm or deny that his forces had chemical stockpiles. If his regime did have such weapons, he said, it would have been “illogical” to use them in an area “where our forces are also present”.

Asked if he regarded France as the enemy of Syria, because President Francois Hollande had agreed to join the US in punitive air strikes, Mr Assad said: “The French people are not our enemy but… in so far as the French state is hostile to the Syrian people, this state is our enemy.”

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 03 Sep 2013 20:10

ME exploding etc is mearly rhetoric by Assad , even Saddam said the same thing prior to US Invasion in GW 2

Even if Rebels gets a tactical advantage post strikes in men , material and morale then they SAA would get help from Iran/Iraq Shia and non military combatants call it Hezbollah , not to mention the Alwaite and Shia who might take this as a fight for its own survival.

Its more like stalemate no matter how one looks at it and no matter if Assad is there or not since the fight is truly along sectarian lines by and large the longer this military confrontation last longer will we see the radical aspect and AQ showing its true colours.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 03 Sep 2013 20:34

A Saudi conspiracy?

Prem Shankar Jha, September 2, 2013, DHNs:
The US and France are about to unleash an attack upon Syria that will open the way for 10,000 to 20,000 jihadis who form a ‘floating army of Islam’ to invade Lebanon, Jordan and Egypt.

None of this seems to bother the Obama administration, because its purpose in destroying Syria, if we are to believe him and his Secretary of State, is to uphold a moral principle no matter what its political cost. This is not realpolitik, simply necessary punishment. But shouldn’t punishment follow conviction, and shouldn’t conviction be based on proof beyond reasonable doubt ? Even as the US readies for war two other far more plausible explanations have emerged for the alleged gas attack. The first is what the Syrian government and many others are asserting — that the rebels launched it to force Nato into the attack on Assad. The second is that it was an accident — a horrible consequence of a Machiavellian plan that went wrong.

The 1,300 word US intelligence assessment that the White House on August 30 added little to what he had said on the August 26. Its main contribution was to flesh out Assad’s possible motive for such a heinous act. “The regime has failed to clear dozens of Damascus neighbourhoods of opposition elements, including neighbourhoods targeted on August 21, despite employing nearly all of its conventional weapons systems. We assess that the regime's frustration ….may have contributed to its decision. ”

On the surface this is not implausible. Dale Gavlak, an Amman-based correspondent of the Associated Press who speaks fluent Arabic, and is one of the very few western journalists to have visited the site of the atrocity, reported that the rebels told him they had built tunnels in which they hid from bombardments, stored their weapons and moved from one building to another, but would sleep in mosques and peoples’ house at night. So trying to penetrate the tunnels with gas would be a sound military, even though politically suicidal, strategy.

The assessment also describes the attack in greater detail. It “began at 2:30 am local time and within the next four hours there were thousands of social media reports from at least 12 different locations in the Damascus area. Among “multiple streams of intelligence” it specifically noted “the detection of rocket launches from regime controlled territory early in the morning, approximately 90 minutes before the first report of a chemical attack appeared in social media”.

Anomalies revealed

The report does not explain what it means by ‘detection’, or how many launches but the rebels uploaded at least one video which, they claimed, captured the launch of the chemical rocket. Repeated viewings of this video, however, reveal several anomalies:
uThis video was shot at around 1.00 am. That meant that there was someone on a balcony looking towards the launch site at this unearthly hour with his phone, or a camera in hand. Could this be mere coincidence ?

uThe video starts four seconds before the rocket launch. That suggests the man knew when it would happen and had started shooting at the appointed time.

uThe video reveals that the man also knew the exact spot from which the rocket would rise, for when it rose, it was only slightly to the left of centre of his screen. By reflex, he corrected the camera angle to get it into the centre of the frame.

uThe time the sound took to follow the flash was between six and seven seconds. That placed the cameraman almost exactly a mile away from the launch site — an optimum safe distance for filming.

u Contrary to the White House claim, the rocket launch does not seem to have been a part of a salvo. The video is 34 seconds long and there is absolute silence the rest of the time.

Foreknowledge, if confirmed, will be conclusive proof that it was the rebels who launched this particular rocket. But there is another possible explanation. In the same article (August 29) Dale Gavlak and a young Jordanian colleague Yahya Ababneh, reported “from numerous interviews with doctors, Ghouta residents, rebel fighters and their families, a different picture emerges. Many believe that certain rebels received chemical weapons via the Saudi intelligence chief, Prince Bandar bin Sultan, and were responsible for carrying out the gas attack.”

“My son came to me two weeks ago asking what I thought the weapons were that he had been asked to carry,” said Abu Abdel-Moneim, the father of a rebel fighting to unseat Assad, who lives in Ghouta. Abdel-Moneim said his son and 12 other rebels were killed inside of a tunnel used to store weapons provided by a Saudi militant, known as Abu Ayesha, who was leading a fighting battalion”.

The conspiracy between the Saudi secret service, headed by Prince Bandar bin Sultan, and the CIA has already been thoroughly exposed by the Wall Street Journal (August 25). Gavlak’s story therefore opens up a third possibility: that the intense Syrian bombardment of the area (which began on August 19) penetrated a tunnel that was being used by Saudi backed jihadis to store chemical weapons supplied by Prince Bandar’s men. This would explain the panic heard in a high Syrian army official’s voice in the allegedly intercepted phone call that is the most concrete evidence that US sources have (unofficially) revealed.

Saudi supply of chemical weapons is not as far-fetched as it sounds, because on December 29 the London Daily Mail had published the hacked emails of a British ‘security contracting’ firm, Britam defence, which revealed that Qatar had offered it an ‘enormous’ sum of money to obtain a chemical warhead from Russian stock, ‘similar to what Syria has’, to supply to the rebels.

These disclosures show that there are at least two other explanations for the gas attack fatalities that are far more plausible than the one the Americans have chosen to believe.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 03 Sep 2013 20:38

Another lesson that would come out from Syria conflict specially for Iran would be that Nuclear Weapons are an absolute must to ensure Security & Territorial Integrity of Iran and any desire to renounce Nuclear Weapons would be fool hardy and it would end up with the same fate as Syria sooner or later.

Expect the new government of Iran to go more cold on any Nuclear Negotiation with West and some where in some secret location they would put the Uranium Enrichment to good use and proven N Design from either AQ Khan or NoKo. The advantage that Iran has is its mature BM program and perhaps in ME and even in the world an indiginous industry that supports MIC thanks to years of sanctions , less flab more hardwork ( wont be surprised its far greater then our own indigenous MIC )

Hopefully we continue to help Iran by buying more crude and exchange it for more useful to that country other than USD , works in our Economic and Geostrategic interest.

Also countries that are not in US sphere of influence would strongly gravitate towards Russia and China that would be the geo-strategic gains for both these countries.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 Sep 2013 20:45

Looks like the russian dew satellites whose console photo you posted looking over indian ocean has cousins that cover the med sea and they are very much on the job to detect bm launches by ir signals. Could trigger some bm tracking radar in southern russia the kind that are size of football field that soc or someone else posted pix of
Unlike our leaders they take the defence of their land very seriously indeed
http://www.sras.org/russia__s_shrunken_ ... _perimeter

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 03 Sep 2013 21:22

chetak wrote:A Saudi conspiracy?

The US and France are about to unleash an attack upon Syria that will open the way for 10,000 to 20,000 jihadis who form a ‘floating army of Islam’ to invade Lebanon, Jordan and Egypt.

This is the core point that will disturb the geopolitical equations in next 10-20 years. US has a better border control regime. What about EU? What about Africa, India and SEA?

member_27444 · Post by **member_27444** » 04 Sep 2013 00:09

How can India fend itself from being victim to such scheming s

paramu · Post by **paramu** » 04 Sep 2013 00:20

RamaY wrote: A Saudi conspiracy?

The US and France are about to unleash an attack upon Syria that will open the way for 10,000 to 20,000 jihadis who form a ‘floating army of Islam’ to invade Lebanon, Jordan and Egypt.

This is the core point that will disturb the geopolitical equations in next 10-20 years. US has a better border control regime. What about EU? What about Africa, India and SEA?

Remember in the 60s and 70s they were talking about wars in the middle east. It has taken them more than 40 years to acheive this. Creating fire in the middle east will last 30 years.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 04 Sep 2013 01:17

RamaY wrote:
chetak wrote:A Saudi conspiracy?

The US and France are about to unleash an attack upon Syria that will open the way for 10,000 to 20,000 jihadis who form a ‘floating army of Islam’ to invade Lebanon, Jordan and Egypt.
This is the core point that will disturb the geopolitical equations in next 10-20 years. US has a better border control regime. What about EU? What about Africa, India and SEA?

Which was precisely my outlook couple of months back ...
Glad to know now that I share this outlook with someone in mainstream who is paid to do this thinking..

Johann ji may not still agree with this..but below is a replug.

Lilo wrote:
abhishek_sharma wrote:Europe's New 'Time Bomb' Is Ticking in Syria: Hundreds are joining the fight against Assad. Will they return as terrorists?
If i didnt know any better, it now looks like the West is using the Middle East as an enormous training ground for blooding the next crop of Jihadis.
The current sectarian chaos in Iraq as a logical outcome to the US invasion looks to be its real goal. Even a novice to geopolitics could have sensed the inevitability of that outcome back in 2003. Yet many were taken in by the peddling of the relatively benign "Oil angle" to the Iraqi invasion (involving in hindsight relatively large leaps of logic) and which now looks more like a conspiracy to cover a conspiracy.

The blow-back wont be directed to the West as it is being drummed up in the quoted article, rather it will be directed by the West as it always did towards its natural competitors - India,China,Russia including any other upstarts elsewhere in Africa, South America and South east Asia.

In a world being primed for chaos the States with the better institutions come out on the top.

US has perfected its counter terror apparatus during the past decade and in spite of the apparent show plots revealed from time to time (like the times square bomber, the underwear bomber or the boston bombers etc) the unassailability of the Western cities to a rouge Jihadi ("rogue" here implies a Jihadi whose network has not yet been penetrated by the West) is a demonstrated fact by the US. Rest of its partners may now wish to partake in the benefits of this long term project.

The chaos in Iraq,Syria,Libya,Egypt will produce hardened Jihadis by the thousands who will now unwittingly act as agents of West and will be forced to ply their trade in turd world countries like India, Indonesia etc by their principals. This will keep these nations weak and tottering and amenable to Western interests .
The Truant nations can expect IEDs to explode by the dozens and death toll in the hundreds. The intermittent carnage enacted in Mumbai is a good example for this.

Even Pakistani Taleban has entered the fray in Syria( i can almost imagine CIA saying somewhere to someone that "TTP apne hi dukaan hai"). Definitely IM recruits from the Indian expats in ME are currently in the Syrian theater getting trained in putting together IEDs, away from the oversight of our Intelligence agencies (we probably dont have enough penetration there as we have in Pakiland).

The silver lining is that we have some good company in our woes - Russia Iran combined most probably have the penetration and intelligence networks matching the West's in the Syrian/Iraqi theater. Even if its late we can pool our strengths with them - especially with Iran we should work to reverse the badblood generated from IAEA vote and toeing US line on Iranian Oil embargo.

On the mainland we must focus on Institutions and the quality of people manning them - NaMo if he comes to power must constitute some form of Indian Intelligence Service (IIS) under able hands and address the much depleted strength in our agencies. There is no dearth of talent in our country who can match the west in HUMInt even with its overarching technological advantage in SIGInt.

Apart from actively monitoring Indian origin/destination communications through google , blackberry etc (as we might be doing already) with servers physically located in India, govt should encourage and incentivise Indian alternatives to Google Search , Twitter , Yahoo mail as China does. This can be the only long term solution to get rid of the prying eyes of the West on our internet communications.

In the end West intends to preserve its place as the promised land of milk and honey to all the demi yogis who manage to climb up the shit holes in their respective turd worlds. This image is its source of power and its perpetual goal is to retain this advantage. It will do anything to show that the rest of the world is Turd.

...

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 1#p1482601

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 04 Sep 2013 03:22

Amyrao wrote:How can India fend itself from being victim to such scheming s

Putting up Agni 6 & 7 on all of our naval ships plus some others too in support of Arihants.

Digging 500 km long tunnels in west ghat mountains and 300 km long tunnels in himalyan ranges, these tunnels have rail lines to take ICBMs from one place to other 'mouths' for launching the missiles.

Having 5000 dirty warheads made of Gold isotop 197 and cobalt 60 other than our inventory of clean nuke warheads.

Keeping all the missiles and warheads mated all the time.

A system on the lines of russian 'Dead Man's Hand' to launch the missiles!

ॐ शान्ति शान्ति शान्ति

chanakyaa · Post by **chanakyaa** » 04 Sep 2013 04:14

Dhananjay wrote:
Amyrao wrote:How can India fend itself from being victim to such scheming s
Putting up Agni 6 & 7 on all of our naval ships plus some others too in support of Arihants.

Digging 500 km long tunnels in west ghat mountains and 300 km long tunnels in himalyan ranges, these tunnels have rail lines to take ICBMs from one place to other 'mouths' for launching the missiles.

Having 5000 dirty warheads made of Gold isotop 197 and cobalt 60 other than our inventory of clean nuke warheads.

Keeping all the missiles and warheads mated all the time.

A system on the lines of russian 'Dead Man's Hand' to launch the missiles!

ॐ शान्ति शान्ति शान्ति

^^^ Sounds great, but the above may work if India is attacked militarily and thus these scary sounding weapons could deter/stop the enemy. Iran has not been attacked but the economic sanctions have nearly crippled its economy. And, I'm sure they have plenty of scary sounding weapons. Those weapons did not help Iran and, if situations arises, will not help India. India just got kicked in the ass, with Syria situation with higher payments on oil transaction and extremely high interest rates which is crippling its own economy. India is already is at war, she just doesn't realize it or willing to accept it.

JwalaMukhi · Post by **JwalaMukhi** » 04 Sep 2013 04:53

Austin wrote:Another lesson that would come out from Syria conflict specially for Iran would be that Nuclear Weapons are an absolute must to ensure Security & Territorial Integrity of Iran and any desire to renounce Nuclear Weapons would be fool hardy and it would end up with the same fate as Syria sooner or later.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/08/ ... _iran.html

With the ongoing security threats posed by India's nuclear-armed rival, Pakistan, the Kashmir conflict (which recently claimed five Indian soldiers), and potential conflict with the other Asian heavyweight (China), India needs the kind of military edge that Israel can help it to obtain. Insofar as India provides an Asian counterweight to Chinese dominance, a powerful India bolstered by Israeli technological expertise is also in the interest of smaller Asian countries and the United States.

One area where India could deepen its alliance with both Israel and the U.S. is on the issue of Iranian nukes.

Iran's vicious human rights abuses and undemocratic political system are also well known. Would India want such a country to have nuclear weapons? Isn't Pakistan enough?

As a responsible member of the nuclear club, a fellow democracy, and one of the greatest rising world powers, India should approach the Iranian nuclear issue as an opportunity to demonstrate how growing Indian clout can promote global security and curb extremist, undemocratic regimes like the Islamic Republic. By deepening India's ties with other innovative and economically advanced democracies like the United States and Israel, India can better secure its own interests and position itself for continued growth and leadership in a more stable world.

Well, I would bet Israel would leave no stone unturned to ensure Iranians will not get nuclear weapons. Syria is a side show.
Israel has its priority right.
Trying to roll back NPA tactics against India are all test cases, to make an example to see if Iranians could also be cajoled through that route.
The ultimate game plan is to prevent any of the jihadis (state actors) getting nuclear stuff. Pakis are a special case of a munna who is on tight leash, who may already have been defanged.
In case of intent, capability and the cojones to take care of national interest, one can without exception take a bet Israel would accomplish it.
India better get this right, and not back wrong horses in the game with emotional tie-ups of nostalgia etc.
Indian establishment has been filled with people who back, russian interests, china interests, islamic interests, us interests and even iranian interests. Hope there is enough influence who genuinely can actually take care of Indian Interests.

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 04 Sep 2013 04:58

Chaankya ji, India which is importing 70% of edible oil from outside, inspite of having 3rd biggest coal bhandaar is importing coal of 15 billion dollars actually needs right now a period of sannyasa or ekaantvaas from the world.

Such sanctions and pariah status would actually force us to stop these stupid imports. Exportwise we're anyway down the drain as even in cotton export bangldesh is far ahead of us.

Yes big chunk of export money won't come from US in software field, but we'll be saving lots of money from other unnecessary imports.

China also won't miss this opportunity to isolate us and we'll be spared their toxic switches, wires and toys while forcing politicos to support local industry.

As you mentioned Iran, it'll be most happy to have us in its 'pariah club' they can barter oil for many things from us.

Russia would still stay friend, who knows maybe French again have a statesman like Jacques Chirac to have friendly relations with us.

Our old self sufficient village system can work again, where villages were neither sending anything out, nor getting anything from outside.

2000 Tejas airforce with Kaveri engines situation will be forced upon us. I actually see it as blessing.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 04 Sep 2013 05:58

Dhananjay wrote:
2000 Tejas airforce with Kaveri engines situation will be forced upon us. I actually see it as blessing.

I have a dream. I wish it is fulfilled

JwalaMukhi · Post by **JwalaMukhi** » 04 Sep 2013 06:12

There are no permanent friends or permanent enemies.
Russians did not stop to supply cryogenic engine to go back on contract, when it suited its interests. It didn't hesitate to charge premium dollars when it suited its interest.
All jihadis will not hesitate to kiss and make over, to shaft the yindu kaffirs when it suits them. They all will charge premium and either push arab imperialism or islamic imperialism either of shia or sunni variety.
Iran has had no compunctions in settling scores by attempting to kill israeli diplomat in New Delhi.
Israel will have no compunction in selling arms to India at a premium if it suits, or sell arms to pakis when they feel it serves their interests.
Well, US has a laundry list, to long to even list.

So, without any romanticism attached to any of the "friends", "frenemies", or "enemies", India needs to pursue its interests. Mere defense cooperation is insufficient, as is mere economic cooperation.
India needs to choose wisely and makes its decision so it benefits, economically, militarily and culturally. All should be taken into consideration, not only one single aspect. Where platitudes needs to be generously given it should be, where its interests are served it needs to pursue cooperation.

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 04 Sep 2013 06:24

^My reference to russia / france / iran was just on the lines of 'one door closes other opens'.

IMO with fall of syria russia will be quite friendless and cornered, they like iran would have to come together with us out of necessity not out of love.

JwalaMukhi · Post by **JwalaMukhi** » 04 Sep 2013 06:31

^They may come out of necessity or otherwise, but the question is what is that they bring to the table, that can be of interest to Indians? If anything tangible, there should be no restrictions in pursuing Indian interests.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 04 Sep 2013 07:01

RamaY wrote:
chetak wrote:A Saudi conspiracy?

The US and France are about to unleash an attack upon Syria that will open the way for 10,000 to 20,000 jihadis who form a ‘floating army of Islam’ to invade Lebanon, Jordan and Egypt.
This is the core point that will disturb the geopolitical equations in next 10-20 years. US has a better border control regime. What about EU? What about Africa, India and SEA?

how will it benefit their Munna israel to have all its neighbours hip-deep with jihadis who will soon finish off any opposition and turn their attention to the yahudi. none of lebanon, jordan or egypt are resource rich unlike iraq or iran so what would western "control" over these three get them?

if they think they can "control" and "channel" this mob into western agenda we know what happened in af and iraq

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 04 Sep 2013 07:10

JwalaMukhi wrote:^They may come out of necessity or otherwise, but the question is what is that they bring to the table, that can be of interest to Indians? If anything tangible, there should be no restrictions in pursuing Indian interests.

JwalaMukhi ji, the discussion started like this:

1.) Question : How can Bharatvarsh save itself from being a victim like SYRIA?
Ans: Putting up Agni 6 & 7 on all of our naval ships plus some others too in support of Arihants.

Digging 500 km long tunnels in west ghat mountains and 300 km long tunnels in himalyan ranges, these tunnels have rail lines to take ICBMs from one place to other 'mouths' for launching the missiles.

Having 5000 dirty warheads made of Gold isotop 197 and cobalt 60 other than our inventory of clean nuke warheads.

Keeping all the missiles and warheads mated all the time.

A system on the lines of russian 'Dead Man's Hand' to launch the missiles!

ॐ शान्ति शान्ति शान्ति

2.) Q: But what about crippling sanctions?
Ans: We are anyway getting looted big time without sanctions. We're importing 70% of our refined edible oil, toxic chinese toys - switches - wires most of things like these.

Our coal sector will be forced to privatise fast as we're foolishly import 15 billion $ worth of coal.

3.) Stupid purchase like 70 boeing 787s would be cancelled. Hurrrah !!!

4.) Yes big exports like software to US will stop but other import leakages will be plugged.

5.) Our own mnfrg. will start to flourish.

6.) Rajiv became PM and first contract he gave to italy making our coins, which they are still making. I think such stupidities won't be affordable anymore.

7.) Samsung, nokia, sony stuff is being imported readymade from outside, maybe the old days unaesthetic but solid stuff made in india will be back. I very much suspect that these Samsung Note IIs and Sonia bravias aren't being made here.

So I very much welcome the sanctions, pariah, ekantvaas phase once again.

Only fiat punto, VW and samsung note II holders may not like. My own 18 year old 'Bajaj Chetak' won't be under sanctions.

As for our oil needs, maybe some parts of Agnis, Arihants and PSLV / GSLV we depend on outside. Those can be fulfilled by cornered Iran and Russia.

While we can wisely forge a new policy of Quantity has its own quality. With 2000 Tejas flying on kaveri (with 150 hrs. service life) instead of GE 414 with 10000 hrs service life.

So in this regard I think all this liberalisation etc. has been a big fat lie which should end.

In the beginning I was surprised how much interest this "West Asia" thread was generating on Syrian situation, I even asked. But now reading I can understand.

US-Vatican-UK are holding a very big power over us right now, with maoist-ej-ISI link they can create a civil war situation here too, plus the catholic-italian powerful lady at helm every move to fight this nexus will be countered by tying up the hands of Armed Forces.

So yes we can't trust Russia to save us from Iraq-Syria like situation.

But Agnis on warships and in tunnels can with salted dirty warheads can

In this light I say on 'majboori ka naam mahatma gandhi' lines at least russia and iran can be available as temporary friends.

habal · Post by **habal** » 04 Sep 2013 08:16

Naval situation in Eastern Mediterranean

member_27444 · Post by **member_27444** » 04 Sep 2013 08:59

What about Israeli subs and naval craft all moored at harbors I doubt it

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 04 Sep 2013 09:56

The Russian Mediterrain Task Force will have atleast 2 Nuclear submarine but they wont put that up officially.

Two large Russian amphibious assault ships sail off to Mediterranean
http://www.itar-tass.com/en/c32/863141.html

Russia’s Black and Baltic Sea Fleets’ Ropucha-class landing ships Novocherkassk and Minsk have sailed off for the Mediterranean Sea, the press service of the Russian defence ministry told Itar-Tass on Tuesday.

“The Russian Navy continues stage-by-stage rotation of warships and support ships of the standing naval force in the Mediterranean,” the spokesman said. “Having passed through the Bosporus and Dardanelles straits, the big landing ships will reach the designated area in the Mediterranean Sea on September 5 or 6 to start their mission under the command of the remote zone headquartered onboard the big anti-submarine ship of the Russian Pacific Fleet Admiral Panteleyev.”

Currently, one of the key tasks of the Russian standing naval force in the Mediterranean is “comprehensive monitoring over the air, underwater and surface situation in the zone of its deployment,” the Russian defence ministry said, adding that the rotation of Russian warships in the Mediterranean Sea would continue till mid-September.

Anant · Post by **Anant** » 04 Sep 2013 10:08

Reading this thread amuses me. I am amused at the love for a sleaze bag like Assad. A barbarian who gases children. I'm amused at the unabashed love for Russia by our Rusophiles Sanku and Philip. I am amused at the disdain for the United States when many posters on BRF work and live in the US, have made tons of money, live great lives and who have willfully left India. And that last graphic of all them Russian vessels--ooh so scary. The Russians aren't going to do squat. And make no mistake Assad will get bombed. And then this thread will achieve a meltdown. I'll be back then. Till then I posit that good will always triumph over evil and I will never for one nanosecond understand how your disdain for the US and its perceived hegemony trumps the fact that the Assad family are 2 bit war criminals who gas women and children. May they justifiably rot in hell.

habal · Post by **habal** » 04 Sep 2013 10:18

Obama's heroes behead 24 civilians in Ras al-Ain

Al-Qaeda linked terrorists in Syria have beheaded all 24 Syrian passengers traveling from Tartus to Ras al-Ain in northeast of Syria, among them a mother and a 40-days old infant.
Gunmen from the terrorist Islamic State of Iraq and Levant stopped the bus on the road in Talkalakh and killed everyone before setting the bus on fire.
According to media reports, the attack was carried out because the passengers who were from three different villages in Ras al-Ain, supported anti-terrorist Kurdish groups which were formed recently to defend Kurdish population against anti-Syria terrorists.
Bodies of a mother and her 40-days infant were also seen among the dead, which were recognized by their relatives.
Syrian Kurdish leader Saleh Muslim warned on Friday that the Kurd minority is facing an ethnic cleansing by al-Qaeda terrorists.
While there is no end in sight to the bloody foreign-fueled conflict in Syria, another front has been formed between the Kurdish militia and extremist militants in Northern Syria.
Al-Qaeda-affiliated terrorist groups operating in the country, including the al-Nusra Front, are trying to capture Kurdish territories and make them part of a state they want to create in the region.
Following deadly attacks on Kurdish regions in recent months, groups of Kurdish militia were formed to protect their people.
Anti-Syria armed groups continue to target civilians amid US threats against Syrian army and government which have made militants find it easier to widen their attacks.
Following worldwide criticism, US President Barack Obama delayed an imminent military strike against Syria on August 31, sending the matter to the Congress to get more support.
SHI/SHI

- See more at: http://en.alalam.ir/news/1512664#sthash.8pBDB9VY.dpuf

Anant · Post by **Anant** » 04 Sep 2013 10:25

Obama's heroes are made by Raytheon. They will rain on Assad in the near future. Fret not.

habal · Post by **habal** » 04 Sep 2013 10:30

Bashar Assad a respected man who lives a very quiet life – Libyan official

A high-level anonymous official with the Libyan Ministry of Defense granted an interview to the Voice of Russia and discussed matters of intelligence surrounding the chemical attack in Syria. After recent threats by Saudi Arabia against Russia for supporting Syria, this area was focused on. The official, speaking on condition of anonymity, spoke about the tires between the Saudis and the Bin Laden family and Al-Qaeda terrorists. In the second part of the interview he details how four members of Qatari Intelligence were killed for attempting o undermine Libya’s ability to protect itself. The official’s voice was digitized by associates of the author to protect his identity and it has been verified.

...
Robles: Back to Syria, you’re I think very knowledgeable for this. What is your opinion on these gas attacks, or these chemical weapons attacks, and then there was another supposed attack a few hours ago. Do you think this is all being fabricated? What’s your opinion on these attacks?
Source: I think it is very unlikely that he must use such weapons, especially when the whole world media looking at him. He didn’t use them in the beginning of the war, he didn’t use them a year ago, he is not going to use them now. He is receiving lots of infantry support from Hezbollah and from Iran and from groups in Iraq, and he is getting the upper hand, and because maybe he is getting the upper hand that’s why the support for Al-Qaeda and the rebels are bound to use a new strategy to undermine him.
Robles: He was winning against these so-called rebels.
Source: Absolutely, he’s taking the upper hand, and he’s controlling very well, and I don’t think they can keep for more than another 4 months. Militarily speaking as a man of military I mean in the army, I consider the rebels can hold on for another 3 or 4 months maximum at this stage.
Robles: So you think they will be, these so-called rebels, they will be defeated in about 3 or 4 months?
Source: Yes I believe that.
Robles: So this is why the US is so urgently trying to invade the country right, or launch air strikes?
Source: Exactly.
Robles: What can you tell us about the groups in Syria now, the different groups? Where are they from, who’s controlling them, and how many of these are like real rebel or opposition forces in your opinion?
Source: The main rebel groups are from Libya, Pakistan and from Tunisia. These are the main groups we know about especially from both Libya we have a whole list of them they are from ethnic (unintelligible). The Libyan groups are amixture of Algerian and Tunisian groups and they come from Derrida, Derrida which is an area, a very contested area between Libya and Algeria
While the Pakistani groups are groups that have, that are supported by Saudi Aabia. In fact I remember reading in one of your newspapers where the speaker of the Taliban was thanking his Arab friends for some support. This gives us an idea who the Arab friends are.
Robles: So the Taliban, he was thanking his Arab friends, or his Saudi friend?
Source: He just mentioned the Arab friends.
Robles: In your opinion this would be Saudi Arabia controlling these or or Egyptian.
Source: No, I don’t think that the Egyptians had anything to do with that, absolutely,even at the times of Hosni, or now, or even at the time of Morsi, they had always a passive role, they never believed in supporting terrorist groups because they are afraid that these groups might propagate inside Egypt. They never had support either financial,nor militarily, nor even politically. Just a passive role.
Robles: So the main sponsor here is Saudi Arabia and Qatar then?
Source: Saudi Arabia and Qatar, yes. They had an incident about 8 months ago. I shouldn’t talk about it but I will just tell you. There are four members of the Qatari Intelligence came to the new military base here, the air field base in Tripoli, and they had a meeting on how to organize the Libyan military. There was a quarrel with our generals who refused all points. The four members of the Qatari intelligence left the base and they were shot by rocket propelled grenade, at 200 metres outside the base, and I remember that… I know the person who gave the order and then they were killed.
Robles: Wow. And they were trying to organise the Libyan army for what, to go into Syria,or do you know any details of that, what they wanted?
Source: No, the organization was meant to make it fragmented and weak. They refused to, for example, support the Air Force or create a tank division. Our military wanted to create 4 tank divisions and include an Air Force with10 to 15 active planes, and they refused those two points, they wanted just brigades andinfantry.
There was a big quarrel and then there was a big fight and I remember I received a call from one of my colleagues and he explained to me what happened and he said we shot them all. And I knew when he said he had shot them all,I know what he meant.
Three days later there was an attack on the Saudi Embassy here, and the UAE Embassy and the Kuwaiti Embassy, underlining the strategy that these 3 or 4 countries, they operate together just like one front and now all 4 embassies are closed.
Robles: Which four countries? I think this is important.
Source: UAE, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and Qatar.
Robles: Now listen, my last question, regarding Syria. What is the real objective in Syria?
Source: There are two known objectives we know about. One is weakening Russia’s influence in the Middle East, that’s one thing. The second thing is for fixing the Israeli borders, that’s for sure. By weakening, they are weakening all the armies in the Middle East so they don’t pose a threat to the Israeli National Security.
These are the two main points that’s why they are creating a (unintelligible).Everything … what happened isthat they are out of control. They thought they couldcontrol it, they thought they could make a quick transition like the one that happened in Egypt and in Tunisia, and they believedthat the coalition that Bashar Al-Assad has only 200 or 300 supporters. While in reality,believe me I’m not trying to be supporter of his family, he has about 70% of the people. He is a very respected man because he lives a very quiet life. He doesn’t take a strong active role into the politics actually, he just tends to mend the social problems of the system,and he was trying to improve things.
Robles: Yes, I’ve seen Bashar al-Assad, I’ve seen him talk, I’ve studied him a little bit, and he seems like a very intelligent, even quiet and I think genuinely peaceful man. That’s my opinion of him anyway.
Source: Exactly. No, no that’s the main opinion. He’s a surgeon, graduated in the United Kingdom, and in the UK they followed him during his 5 or 6 years in university and he never caused any problems. He’s not an extravagant bloke who goes to pubs or drinks. He lives a very quiet life, he’s been an academic all his life, and even as President he neveroffended any country, even face to face. They tried to give the picture to the world of this monster, but actually it failed, because watching him talk you realize that certainly he is a true politician. Even in Libya here, even amongst the revolutionary people, people who took part in the Libyan revolution we have supporters, lots of supporters.
Robles: How will an armed conflict in Syria spread to the other countries in the Middle East, and how is this going to be a threat to the United States and to Israel? Worse than anything that could possibly happen right now, people are talking about this could possibly lead to World War Three. What’s your opinion?
Source: In my opinion that doesn’t pose a threat to the United States. It poses a threat possibly to Israel. The Arab states will lose complete control over their future, and this can lead to a full-scale war, at least not now but in 2 or 3 years, and the outcome of it. That’s why the West is being very cautious about it, because Iran will intervene, the Shia in Lebanon will intervene, then the Sunni will intervene, the Druze will have to go into the war. Even the factions who have nothing to do with the fight- the Druze and the Christians - they’ll be forcefully into it and it will create a complete mess.
Robles: I see.

http://voiceofrussia.com/2013_09_03/Bas ... cial-4010/

Anant · Post by **Anant** » 04 Sep 2013 10:34

Someone on this forum nominate Assad for the next Nobel Peace Prize. Obama already has one. What a saint!

http://gdb.voanews.com/09E3E829-252C-43 ... 24_n_s.jpg

habal · Post by **habal** » 04 Sep 2013 10:38

par for the course, he is up against 'the beast'.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/nat ... ory_1.html

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 04 Sep 2013 10:58

Anant wrote:Reading this thread amuses me. I am amused at the love for a sleaze bag like Assad. A barbarian who gases children. I'm amused at the unabashed love for Russia by our Rusophiles Sanku and Philip. I am amused at the disdain for the United States when many posters on BRF work and live in the US, have made tons of money, live great lives and who have willfully left India. And that last graphic of all them Russian vessels--ooh so scary. The Russians aren't going to do squat. And make no mistake Assad will get bombed. And then this thread will achieve a meltdown. I'll be back then. Till then I posit that good will always triumph over evil and I will never for one nanosecond understand how your disdain for the US and its perceived hegemony trumps the fact that the Assad family are 2 bit war criminals who gas women and children. May they justifiably rot in hell.

Anant ji,
Thanks for explaining your stand upfront.
You see there are those in Massaland to whom Bharat's interests always take precedence to Massa's. Then they are those to whom Bharat's interests take precedence only till the point they don't clash with Massa's . This forum being Bharat Rakshak , one can expect the posters from former group to many many more in number to latter. So nothing to be amused. This is logical onlee.

habal wrote:Bashar Assad a respected man who lives a very quiet life – Libyan official

A high-level anonymous official with the Libyan Ministry of Defense granted an interview to the Voice of Russia and discussed matters of intelligence surrounding the chemical attack in Syria. After recent threats by Saudi Arabia against Russia for supporting Syria, this area was focused on. The official, speaking on condition of anonymity, spoke about the tires between the Saudis and the Bin Laden family and Al-Qaeda terrorists. In the second part of the interview he details how four members of Qatari Intelligence were killed for attempting o undermine Libya’s ability to protect itself. The official’s voice was digitized by associates of the author to protect his identity and it has been verified.

...

Robles: What can you tell us about the groups in Syria now, the different groups? Where are they from, who’s controlling them, and how many of these are like real rebel or opposition forces in your opinion?
Source: The main rebel groups are from Libya, Pakistan and from Tunisia. These are the main groups we know about especially from both Libya we have a whole list of them they are from ethnic (unintelligible). The Libyan groups are amixture of Algerian and Tunisian groups and they come from Derrida, Derrida which is an area, a very contested area between Libya and Algeria
While the Pakistani groups are groups that have, that are supported by Saudi Aabia. In fact I remember reading in one of your newspapers where the speaker of the Taliban was thanking his Arab friends for some support. This gives us an idea who the Arab friends are.
Robles: So the Taliban, he was thanking his Arab friends, or his Saudi friend?
Source: He just mentioned the Arab friends.
Robles: In your opinion this would be Saudi Arabia controlling these or or Egyptian.
Source: No, I don’t think that the Egyptians had anything to do with that, absolutely,even at the times of Hosni, or now, or even at the time of Morsi, they had always a passive role, they never believed in supporting terrorist groups because they are afraid that these groups might propagate inside Egypt. They never had support either financial,nor militarily, nor even politically. Just a passive role.
Robles: So the main sponsor here is Saudi Arabia and Qatar then?
Source: Saudi Arabia and Qatar, yes...

Habal ji,
Looks like the Pakis are in the fray after all leashed and led by their Saudi masters.
No wonder Paki Taleban was so quick to deny presence in Syria, when questioned.

More reason for India to side with Russia Syria and Iran.

Anant · Post by **Anant** » 04 Sep 2013 11:11

Lilo, with due deference I think there are many like me who love both India and the United States. I call a spade a spade. Assad is a genocidal war criminal and I'll rejoice the day he is butchered like the kids and women that he did in. You can support whom you want. Ultimately, good trumps evil notwithstanding the blood that all countries including the US have on their hands.