Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India
Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India
also, the same survey (28 cities) before 2009 election was giving Cong head to head with BJP and we know what happenned, BJP got cleaned out of Urban areas
Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India
Good points Nagesh ji, well taken.
Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India
The story of Maharashtrian Jaagirdari is a fascinating story (and a murky one). Murky because although it has been antithetical towards nationalistic PIF forces, it was not exactly pro-AIF forces as well. It conveniently occupies the shades of grey in ongoing battle of AIF Vs PIF.nageshks wrote:Atri-ji,Atri wrote: It will be an annoyance only but not major effect on poll. Western MH and Marathwada and Khandesh is slotted to go with NCP-INC anyways and Vidarbha most probably stay with BJP. If SS does this, Marathi voters will move to MNS and MNS will willingly move into the embrace of BJP. BJP anyways wants more seats in seat-sharing agreement.
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In the mid 90s (particularly 96), both Khandesh and Marathwada went fully in favour of BJP-SS. Is it impossible for BJP-SS to repeat this feat? Marathwada, in particular, has had more than its fair share of misfortunes, under the Congress-NCP rule. Would they still stay loyal to Congress-NCP?
NCP and INC were as Hindutva-vadis as SS or BJP or RSS walas. Even today, the ground cadre is practically indistinguishable. INC (and NCP which is its offshoot only) in MH is an elaborate system of Jaagirdari designed by Yashwantrao Chavan to please and and yet maintain a separate existence from Nehru.
This began after death of Lokmanya Tilak. I have hinted at it in MKG thread. Large number of brahmin, marathas and OBC youth which was inclined towards Tilak and violent means were systematically liquidated by British post MKG calling off Non-cooperation movement. That post of mine in MKG thread was extremely heartfelt and bore the memories of personal loss to our family and clan. There were thousands like us. anyways.
The culling of 1920s ensured that from MH (as was with Punjab and Bengal) only pygmies will remain in the national discourse of Indian freedom movement. Only Dr. B R Ambedkar was the leader worth a salt who managed to emerge and escape from this pogrom of 1920s, that too because of his Dalit cause. Even he was sidelined by JLN for his pragmatic stances. He and to certain extent Savarkar (with his wings severely clipped). Similarly, only Subhash babu managed to emerge from Bengal post 1920s pogrom. And after Lalaji and hanging of Bhagat Singh, not a single national leader has emerged from Punjab. The fate of Punjab has always brought tears to my eyes. Muslims were overcome by Sikhs and just as they were rising British took over. Lalaji, Arya samajis etc were again making Punjab rise but Lalaji was eliminated and brilliant young men like Bhagat Singh were sacrificed.
Same thing happened in MH. RSS, Hindu Mahasabha shielded a large bulk of youth from Mh and central India and western UP (basically all those territories which were once under stable Maratha occupation prior to 1818) suffering that fate from 1925-45. This gave rise to many stalwarts which later went on to shine in non-INC platforms like jansangh, BJP and various subsidiaries of RSS.
But the die was already cast in 1940s. HMS and RSS (which in turn meant nationalistic youth from erstwhile maratha territories)were beginning to be vocal and active with partition related violence increasing in tenor. Role of cadres from these organizations in saving Bengal and Punjab and even Kashmir (as far as I know, the runway of Srinagar airport was prepared by RSS guys in 1948 so that IA planes could land).
With JLN has head of GOI, nathuram godse's action gave the establishment a chance to cull this budding nationalist forces. The Brahmin-Maratha dispute has been going on in MH since 1741 (began with Peshwa-Bhonsale feud over chauth of Bengal which resulted in infamous Maratha raids on Bengal). This was systematically used to drive out MH-brahmins from villages where they had mass-base. This was done by INC under premiership of Yashwantrao Chavan and S K Patil. After exodus of brahmins from villages, the Marathas got to place their fingers right on the pulse of power. This is where we see the rise of 96-clan lobby in MH (more precisely western MH).
It is not sufficient that person should belong to 96-clan Maratha community to rule over MH. Heck, MH-brahmins have been severely deracinated since their eviction from politics (post 1920s). It is OBCs and the 96-clan Marathas who are more Hindutvavadis than many of the MH-brahmins and form bulk of cadre of BJP-RSS-SS in Maharashtra. It is not only about caste. One should belong to right family.
This is the reason why BJP cannot win (so far) in western MH. BJP and RSS have stalwart Maratha and OBC leaders. Shelar, Tavde, Fundkar are dedicated BJP leaders belonging to 96-clan Maratha community who have strong following in Mumbai and urban MH. But they are outsiders to the lobby of Maratha jaagirdars.
In 1955, when the demand for Telugu language based AP was beginning to take root, similar demand started in MH - this is called Sanyukta Maharashtra samiti. All the non-INC parties, the communists the Hinduvadi people (who were flying low due to MKG assassination) joined in. The convener of this movement was father of Balasaheb Thakre - Keshav Thakre, aka "Prabodhankaar". It became obvious that unless something was done INC would be eradicated from MH. In 1957 state assembly polls, SMS won large number of seats and INC could barely win a majority. If left unchecked, by 1962 INC would have been finished from MH for ever.
This is when Yashwantrao Chavan started Cooperative sugar factory movement in MH. This movement, although yielded rich economic dividends to MH, propelling MH to the position of wealthiest state in India (I think despite of last 15 years of misgovernance, MH still holds that position due to this movement by YC). Fantastic movement and full credit to Yashwantrao. However, closer scrutiny of what this movement really was, shows an interesting story. Like Raja Todarmal introduced Mansabdari system for Akbar in north India, thereby stabilizing Mughal rule in Ganga valley for three centuries, Yashwantrao introduced Mansabdari system for his Nehru. Each district of western MH (and fertile parts of marathwada, Khandesh and Vidarbha) is given to family of 96-clanner Maratha to look after. That district was the Jaagir of that family.
Now, who is in this lobby - The requirements are that one has to be a 96-clanner person who owed allegiance to Yashwantrao (later usurped by Sharad Pawar) and who is NOT from Konkan. 96-clanner Konkani Marathas (like Narayan Rane, for example) can never be part of this Sugar-lobby. It has to be Deshastha Marathas only. But not all 96-clanner Marathas from the Ghat. Those who owe their allegiance to yashwantrao and who will go after him either with OR against Nehru and who were big farmers with great political clout and following AFTER having displaced brahmin leadership (and farmers) from those particular district. Quite a tall order. Like the Delhi's dilli-billi circuit, this Maratha jaagirdar lobby has been calling shots in MH and rest of KG basin since fall of yadava empire in general.
The opponents of this Sugar-lobby were the usual suspects - RSS, HMS, communists, Dalits and farmer-worker party (Shetkari Kaamgaar Paksha). This Shekaapa was a formidable non-INC, non-RSS force (kind of like Janta Dal of Lohia). Mr. Govindrao Pawar (father of Sharad Pawar) was promising leader of this party. Many say, he was an idealist. He was murdered, (some chaiwalas say at the behest of Yashwantrao himself). After the murder of Govindrao, the Shekaapa lingered but toothlessly. Sharad Pawar, however, received great care and affection from Yashwantrao. SP was his protege.
In this jaagirdari model of Chavan, Nanded was given to Chavan (another), Satara to Chavan (yashwantarao), Sangli to Patil (the current RR patil comes from same Patil clan of Sangli), latur to Chakurkar and Deshmukh (fathers of Shivraj Patil-Chakurkar and Vilasrao Deshmukh), Kolhapur to Desai, Pune-Baramati to Pawars, Ahmednagar to some Kadam (cannot recall his name) so on and so forth. These families formed the first iteration of 96-clan Sugar-lobby of western MH which held tight to each other. Like Pre-Shivaji Maratha feudal lords, they may change parties, they may even fight one-other occasionally but they never eliminate each other. When the appear fighting, it is more often than not, Maya only.. Most importantly, in all this fighting and rabble-rousing, the territory and its resources remains with this lobby, no matter which master they serve.
The raison d'etre of Sanyukta Maharashtra Samiti vanished when state of Maharashtra came into existence. The power of this new state went squarely to this lobby headed by Yashwantrao Chavan. The remaining social groupings (dalits, Brahmins, OBCs and the rejected 96-clanner Marathas) were leaderless and started meandering towards Communism. This is where rise of Shivsena happened. SS and communists were eyeing these exact social groups and in the process (at times with active support of Sugar-lobby), Sena defeated and threw out communists from MH. This included a series of political murders which will be digression here.
With Communists weakened, the natural gravitas of MH society started manifesting again by slowly moving towards anti-Delhi bias with strong hindutva undercurrent. This is late 1970s I am talking about. The emergency and crackdown of RSS was visible to everyone. After 1920s, the emergency era saw deaths of so many RSS volunteers who were promising. Thankfully Sena did not allow the youth of MH to go anti-national as it happened in Bengal and Punjab (Naxalism and Khalistani movement respectively). The public sentiment remained anti-delhi, but staunchly nationalistic (at times hindu-nationalistic). This undercurrent began to grow vocal as the great strikes of early 80s brought Mumbai to standstill. Sena (helped by businessmen and Sugar lobby) was overpowering communists. But fueling Shivsena also meant fueling and funding Hindutva ethos.
Meanwhile Pawar had split from INC for the first time to form Progressive democratic party (Purogaami Lokshahi dal) in alliance with Morarji's Janta Party against Indira in 1978. Riding the JP wave, he became MH CM in 1978. But when Indira came back to power, first thing she did was dismissing this non-INC government from MH. Antulay sahab being a man from "peaceful community" has his own links and baggages. But he was first person from outside Sugar lobby (He was a konkani muslim) to become MH-CM. Hence he was in touch with various Bhais (Haji mastan, Karim lala ityadi). He was convicted in extortion case and was forced to resign in 1982 after two years. He, being loyal to IG, was then shipped to Delhi to become minorities affairs minister. He was never heard from again, until 26/11 when he crapped out some Zaid-Hamid like stuff.
Babasaheb Bhonsale became MH-CM thereafter and seeing the power safely in hands of Sugar-lobby, our Pawar Saheb returned to INC in 1987 as if nothing happened and within matter of few months packed off Shankarrao Chavan to dilli and became CM of MH and president of MH-INC. Beautiful politics. He ensured power of MH remains in hand of Sugar lobby and not anybody else (including Nehrus and Gandhis). But in the process he cultivated his personal image of unreliable politician in minds of Dilli-billi. Meanwhile SS had allied with BJP (in 1985), Shahbano incident had happened and RJB was beginning to gear up.
All this politicking requires loads of money. Kind of money which stable jaagir cannot churn up, hence requires dirty money. It is not easy challenging Delhi (and Indira) and survive. This is where Pawar's alleged connections arise with Haji Mastan and later Dawood. The transfer of money started from 1978 (when he first broke off from INC). Various names like Choksi (the famous Hawala trader) along with owner of a well known Gutkha company (I think Moolchand) were part of all this. All this is part of information available in Public domain, one only needs to dig deeper on the internet. Plus lot has been said about Dawood, Pawar and 1993 blasts and Vohra report, so no point in repeating it. It is slightly tangential to our story.
After death of Rajiv, Pawar was closest to the top-job since Bajirao-1 conquered delhi in 1737. He was undone by his past, machinations of Dynasty-sympathizing lobby who wanted to prop up Sonia, ND Tiwari and Arjun Singh - who like Pawar were also vying for top job. The unlikely winner of this quadrangular match who screwed (although temporarily, but resoundingly) to all four contestants was PVNR who packed off Tiwari, Arjunsingh, Pawar and Sonia-backers. He used all his luck in this (and bomb and liberalization).
His mishandling of name-change of Aurangabad University, series of protests by Anna Hazare, series of demolitions of illegal constructions in Mumbai (mostly funded by builder lobby backed by the "bhai") by G R Khairnar, BMC's deputy commissioner severely eroded the funding of INC.
All these factors and this history, combined caused the aberration of SS-BJP coming to power in 1995. They did fantastic job when in power, just like CBN in AP. Yet in 1999, INC (which means Western MH based Sugar lobby) was back to power. How?
This too is fascinating story. The anti-delhi sentiment has always been popular in MH-public imagination. This is connected to Maratha-Mughal antagonism. Delhi, subconsciously, symbolizes enemy seat which rightfully belongs to Marathas. The terms like "Dillishwara" or "Dilli-pati" means Sultanate and to be precise Aurangzeb. The "rebellion" of Pawar against Sonia prior to 1999 assembly and general elections diverted public attention. 1999 elections are really fascinating. The state and general polls happened simultaneously in MH. Public chose SS-BJP in Loksabha and INC-NCP in state - within matter of 5 minutes, public chose two different poles of political spectrum.
I still cannot understand how INC-NCP (later UPA) could come to power in MH after people witnessed whirlwind progress under SS-BJP. The reason that I now understand is, SS-BJP were not meant to be in power. They did not "win". Sugar-lobby let them win while they set their houses in order meanwhile and reorient themselves in accordance to changing polity and realities of India. SS-BJP did progress, but they did not (could not have) destroy the mass-base and dense network of industrialists, farmers, traders, politicians, police and bankers which form the back-bone of Sugar-lobby. The large network of cooperative banks, societies, factories, farms spread across villages of MH are the real strength of Sugar-lobby.
Last of the banks which were holding out against this lobby were sacrificed at the alter of INC (the new Sonia-MMS-Chiddu's 3G based diwan-e-khas INC). The stories of United Western bank and Ganesh Bank of Kurundwad and their mergers by Chiddu in IDBI and Federal Bank (originally an EJ-funded bank) respectively was the last nail in the coffin. SP again hoped to be PM in 2004 when he allied yet opposed Sonia to be PM. Sonia, via Chiddu, screwed him by forcing Ganesh Bank to merge in Federal Bank. United Western Bank was a very strong and robust bank since 1907 (they funded, covertly of course) to many of the Tilak's proteges. With Tilak's demise, the bank although dominated by brahmins, stayed on very good terms with Sugar Lobby. Almost entire Sugar-belt was dominated by this bank. Chiddu decided to screw this bank up to teach Pawar a lesson. I do not know what Pawar did, but he saved UWB from merging into EJ bank, that is Federal bank. People say the relations between Chiddu and Pawar soured greatly after Pawar played some game and did not allow Federal bank to make inroads in MH.
An interesting trivia here, but the hindi word for Insurance is WIMA (Not Vima). It is an acronym for Western India Mutual Assurance which is the parent company established by Anna Chirmule (The founder of United Western bank) in 1907. This just shows how popular and deep-rooted this institution was. There was a director of United western Bank who refused to give shady loan to Sugar-lobby. Furthermore, he had the audacity to claim the pending loans too. He actually made Pawar pay up. This caused much furor in MH. It is here that the fate of UWB was sealed. The bogey of Brahmin-Maratha dispute was brought up and UWB suddenly became "Brahminical Bank".
This was a lengthy essay. I have been wanting to write this for long time. This is the source of Pawar's power. In all my previous articles I have praised Pawar for keeping the nose of "Delhi" (which meant Nehru/Indira/Sonia) out of MH. He went to great lengths (unethical lengths) to do so. But he has so far ensured that power of Deccan stays in Deccan and Delhi only gets a nominal Chauth in exchange of staying away. He is one of the reasons. why there was hardly any EJ and ROP conversion activity in 1980s and early 90s in MH. Of course the chief being the natural tendency of Maharashtrians which gravitates towards Hindutva.
Last edited by Atri on 07 Sep 2013 22:55, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India
Thanks for an excellent exposition Atri ji.
You never get such distilled and unalloyed gyan in mainstream.
Certainly a keeper for outsiders and even insiders to Maha politics.
You never get such distilled and unalloyed gyan in mainstream.
Certainly a keeper for outsiders and even insiders to Maha politics.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India
nageshks ji, I have seen people place that sort of expectations on SS. But you need to realise his individual brilliance is not a factor in his being able to successfully prosecute.nageshks wrote:Dhananjay-ji,Dhananjay wrote: kanimozhi, d.raja, karunanidhi..... all tamil, two of them spent time in jail because of SS.
I confess I do not share much enthusiasm for Subramanian Swamy. He is phenomenally intelligent and capable - I have no doubt of that. However, his record, when it comes to success in prosecution, seems extremely limited. Remember Subramanian Swamy went after Jaya in the mid 90s. He attacked her for a long time and made time she spent time in prison too. But then, he made up with her and went to being best buddies with her, and helped her bring down Vajpayee government in 99. Can someone point me to a single instance where Subramanian Swamy has successfully prosecuted any politician (forget high level) and obtained a conviction?
There are teams of lawyers and if they are supported by good inhouse management of business (black or white) then an outsider stands virtually zero chance of being successful. I am speaking from experience. I have while being part of teams been a part of these games. And quite a few of my types love these games. Whoever pays gets our services. Mostly it is to compensate for the adharmic quotient that I come to BRF.
The fact that SS fights is good enough. Winning is sone pe suhaga. But even if you do not get the suhaga, pls do consider not throwing away the sona.
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Atri garu, such a long post! Are you going the JohneeG way? Thoda Acharya ji se bhi to seekhiye.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India
The Sonia G foto with sword reminds me of Gsribaldi but enemic
Is she on diet?
Atari ji what you said also applies to APPolitics as you may know.
about AR Antulay he was the money making machine paying royalty to IG his unique way was allocation of cement and steel for building lobby and real estate sharks in Mumbai
Is she on diet?
Atari ji what you said also applies to APPolitics as you may know.
about AR Antulay he was the money making machine paying royalty to IG his unique way was allocation of cement and steel for building lobby and real estate sharks in Mumbai
Last edited by member_27444 on 07 Sep 2013 22:36, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India
Singha wrote:Rahul an ideal choice for PM, will be happy to work under him: PM
Read more at: http://ibnlive.in.com/?utm_source=ref_article
Sounds like he's trolling. Surely even he isn't stupid enough to believe this?
Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India
Johnee G posts, my cursor keep going down and down and down, just does not end. When i try and stop cursor at end of the post, 5 of Acharya's posts flyby. So for J'Gee i start pointing the cursor at the vertical bar and drag down (which also takes some time) instead of using up and down arrows.Atri garu, such a long post! Are you going the JohneeG way? Thoda Acharya ji se bhi to seekhiye.
Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India
^^ Great post Atriji., thanks for the succinct analysis on the power of pawar - always suspected that the dense network of cooperatives and banks and "farm houses" form the backbone., and here you come and clarify it through the haze.
Somewhere you quote
Somewhere you quote
I think it was Rasiklal Manekchand., from pune - created the famous Gutkha empire and infact has been said that he helped Dawood setup factory in Karachi to "manufacture" Gutkha.Various names like Choksi (the famous Hawala trader) along with owner of a well known Gutkha company (I think Moolchand) were part of all this.
Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India
Either she is having piles or cancer.Amyrao wrote:The Sonia G foto with sword reminds me of Gsribaldi but enemic
Is she on diet?
Atari ji what you said also applies to APPolitics as you may know.
about AR Antulay he was the money making machine paying royalty to IG his unique way was allocation of cement and steel for building lobby and real estate sharks in Mumbai

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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India
Atri garu great learning experience. Thanks.
Now i understand Maharashtra better. For an artificial creation called UP and a small natural creation called Uttarakhand it is always difficult to understand how the different powerful regions of India work. Somebody had said that the Hindus were like soil flung in the air or something to the effect, and that is what my region is. This is good political learning that I can hand over to my son. The bit after 80s I could understand easily but I never could understand the history that brought it about.
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harbans ji, actually this is all maya only. There is only one man behind all these handles - Bji, Atri ji, Acharya ji, JohneeG ji, Murugan ji, Carl ji and the earlier RajeshA ji.
The handle that best suits this man gets used.
Once in a while if the man gets irritated he comes up on one of the vikaar threads - politics-wolitics, nonsense, with some idhar udhar ka naam.
Just kidding bhai ji.
Now i understand Maharashtra better. For an artificial creation called UP and a small natural creation called Uttarakhand it is always difficult to understand how the different powerful regions of India work. Somebody had said that the Hindus were like soil flung in the air or something to the effect, and that is what my region is. This is good political learning that I can hand over to my son. The bit after 80s I could understand easily but I never could understand the history that brought it about.
...................
harbans ji, actually this is all maya only. There is only one man behind all these handles - Bji, Atri ji, Acharya ji, JohneeG ji, Murugan ji, Carl ji and the earlier RajeshA ji.
The handle that best suits this man gets used.
Once in a while if the man gets irritated he comes up on one of the vikaar threads - politics-wolitics, nonsense, with some idhar udhar ka naam.
Just kidding bhai ji.
Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India
(Whistles softly and bows)! Thanks, Atri-ji. That was a fantastic essay. It is a keeper, what you have said here about Maharashtra.Atri wrote: The story of Maharashtrian Jaagirdari is a fascinating story (and a murky one). Murky because although it has been antithetical towards nationalistic PIF forces, it was not exactly pro-AIF forces as well. It conveniently occupies the shades of grey in ongoing battle of AIF Vs PIF.
NCP and INC were as Hindutva-vadis as SS or BJP or RSS walas. Even today, the ground cadre is practically indistinguishable. INC (and NCP which is its offshoot only) in MH is an elaborate system of Jaagirdari designed by Yashwantrao Chavan to please and and yet maintain a separate existence from Nehru.
This began after death of Lokmanya Tilak. I have hinted at it in MKG thread. Large number of brahmin, marathas and OBC youth which was inclined towards Tilak and violent means were systematically liquidated by British post MKG calling off Non-cooperation movement. That post of mine in MKG thread was extremely heartfelt and bore the memories of personal loss to our family and clan. There were thousands like us. anyways.
The culling of 1920s ensured that from MH (as was with Punjab and Bengal) only pygmies will remain in the national discourse of Indian freedom movement. Only Dr. B R Ambedkar was the leader worth a salt who managed to emerge and escape from this pogrom of 1920s, that too because of his Dalit cause. Even he was sidelined by JLN for his pragmatic stances. He and to certain extent Savarkar (with his wings severely clipped). Similarly, only Subhash babu managed to emerge from Bengal post 1920s pogrom. And after Lalaji and hanging of Bhagat Singh, not a single national leader has emerged from Punjab. The fate of Punjab has always brought tears to my eyes. Muslims were overcome by Sikhs and just as they were rising British took over. Lalaji, Arya samajis etc were again making Punjab rise but Lalaji was eliminated and brilliant young men like Bhagat Singh were sacrificed.
Same thing happened in MH. RSS, Hindu Mahasabha shielded a large bulk of youth from Mh and central India and western UP (basically all those territories which were once under stable Maratha occupation prior to 1818) suffering that fate from 1925-45. This gave rise to many stalwarts which later went on to shine in non-INC platforms like jansangh, BJP and various subsidiaries of RSS.
But the die was already cast in 1940s. HMS and RSS (which in turn meant nationalistic youth from erstwhile maratha territories)were beginning to be vocal and active with partition related violence increasing in tenor. Role of cadres from these organizations in saving Bengal and Punjab and even Kashmir (as far as I know, the runway of Srinagar airport was prepared by RSS guys in 1948 so that IA planes could land).
With JLN has head of GOI, nathuram godse's action gave the establishment a chance to cull this budding nationalist forces. The Brahmin-Maratha dispute has been going on in MH since 1741 (began with Peshwa-Bhonsale feud over chauth of Bengal which resulted in infamous Maratha raids on Bengal). This was systematically used to drive out MH-brahmins from villages where they had mass-base. This was done by INC under premiership of Yashwantrao Chavan and S K Patil. After exodus of brahmins from villages, the Marathas got to place their fingers right on the pulse of power. This is where we see the rise of 96-clan lobby in MH (more precisely western MH).
It is not sufficient that person should belong to 96-clan Maratha community to rule over MH. Heck, MH-brahmins have been severely deracinated since their eviction from politics (post 1920s). It is OBCs and the 96-clan Marathas who are more Hindutvavadis than many of the MH-brahmins and form bulk of cadre of BJP-RSS-SS in Maharashtra. It is not only about caste. One should belong to right family.
This is the reason why BJP cannot win (so far) in western MH. BJP and RSS have stalwart Maratha and OBC leaders. Shelar, Tavde, Fundkar are dedicated BJP leaders belonging to 96-clan Maratha community who have strong following in Mumbai and urban MH. But they are outsiders to the lobby of Maratha jaagirdars.
In 1955, when the demand for Telugu language based AP was beginning to take root, similar demand started in MH - this is called Sanyukta Maharashtra samiti. All the non-INC parties, the communists the Hinduvadi people (who were flying low due to MKG assassination) joined in. The convener of this movement was father of Balasaheb Thakre - Keshav Thakre, aka "Prabodhankaar". It became obvious that unless something was done INC would be eradicated from MH. In 1957 state assembly polls, SMS won large number of seats and INC could barely win a majority. If left unchecked, by 1962 INC would have been finished from MH for ever.
This is when Yashwantrao Chavan started Cooperative sugar factory movement in MH. This movement, although yielded rich economic dividends to MH, propelling MH to the position of wealthiest state in India (I think despite of last 15 years of misgovernance, MH still holds that position due to this movement by YC). Fantastic movement and full credit to Yashwantrao. However, closer scrutiny of what this movement really was, shows an interesting story. Like Raja Todarmal introduced Mansabdari system for Akbar in north India, thereby stabilizing Mughal rule in Ganga valley for three centuries, Yashwantrao introduced Mansabdari system for his Nehru. Each district of western MH (and fertile parts of marathwada, Khandesh and Vidarbha) is given to family of 96-clanner Maratha to look after. That district was the Jaagir of that family.
Now, who is in this lobby - The requirements are that one has to be a 96-clanner person who owed allegiance to Yashwantrao (later usurped by Sharad Pawar) and who is NOT from Konkan. 96-clanner Konkani Marathas (like Narayan Rane, for example) can never be part of this Sugar-lobby. It has to be Deshastha Marathas only. But not all 96-clanner Marathas from the Ghat. Those who owe their allegiance to yashwantrao and who will go after him either with OR against Nehru and who were big farmers with great political clout and following AFTER having displaced brahmin leadership (and farmers) from those particular district. Quite a tall order. Like the Delhi's dilli-billi circuit, this Maratha jaagirdar lobby has been calling shots in MH and rest of KG basin since fall of yadava empire in general.
The opponents of this Sugar-lobby were the usual suspects - RSS, HMS, communists, Dalits and farmer-worker party (Shetkari Kaamgaar Paksha). This Shekaapa was a formidable non-INC, non-RSS force (kind of like Janta Dal of Lohia). Mr. Govindrao Pawar (father of Sharad Pawar) was promising leader of this party. Many say, he was an idealist. He was murdered, (some chaiwalas say at the behest of Yashwantrao himself). After the murder of Govindrao, the Shekaapa lingered but toothlessly. Sharad Pawar, however, received great care and affection from Yashwantrao. SP was his protege.
In this jaagirdari model of Chavan, Nanded was given to Chavan (another), Satara to Chavan (yashwantarao), Sangli to Patil (the current RR patil comes from same Patil clan of Sangli), latur to Chakurkar and Deshmukh (fathers of Shivraj Patil-Chakurkar and Vilasrao Deshmukh), Kolhapur to Desai, Pune-Baramati to Pawars, Ahmednagar to some Kadam (cannot recall his name) so on and so forth. These families formed the first iteration of 96-clan Sugar-lobby of western MH which held tight to each other. Like Pre-Shivaji Maratha feudal lords, they may change parties, they may even fight one-other occasionally but they never eliminate each other. When the appear fighting, it is more often than not, Maya only.. Most importantly, in all this fighting and rabble-rousing, the territory and its resources remains with this lobby, no matter which master they serve.
The raison d'etre of Sanyukta Maharashtra Samiti vanished when state of Maharashtra came into existence. The power of this new state went squarely to this lobby headed by Yashwantrao Chavan. The remaining social groupings (dalits, Brahmins, OBCs and the rejected 96-clanner Marathas) were leaderless and started meandering towards Communism. This is where rise of Shivsena happened. SS and communists were eyeing these exact social groups and in the process (at times with active support of Sugar-lobby), Sena defeated and threw out communists from MH. This included a series of political murders which will be digression here.
With Communists weakened, the natural gravitas of MH society started manifesting again by slowly moving towards anti-Delhi bias with strong hindutva undercurrent. This is late 1970s I am talking about. The emergency and crackdown of RSS was visible to everyone. After 1920s, the emergency era saw deaths of so many RSS volunteers who were promising. Thankfully Sena did not allow the youth of MH to go anti-national as it happened in Bengal and Punjab (Naxalism and Khalistani movement respectively). The public sentiment remained anti-delhi, but staunchly nationalistic (at times hindu-nationalistic). This undercurrent began to grow vocal as the great strikes of early 80s brought Mumbai to standstill. Sena (helped by businessmen and Sugar lobby) was overpowering communists. But fueling Shivsena also meant fueling and funding Hindutva ethos.
Meanwhile Pawar had split from INC for the first time to form Progressive democratic party (Purogaami Lokshahi dal) in alliance with Morarji's Janta Party against Indira in 1978. Riding the JP wave, he became MH CM in 1978. But when Indira came back to power, first thing she did was dismissing this non-INC government from MH. Antulay sahab being a man from "peaceful community" has his own links and baggages. But he was first person from outside Sugar lobby (He was a konkani muslim) to become MH-CM. Hence he was in touch with various Bhais (Haji mastan, Karim lala ityadi). He was convicted in extortion case and was forced to resign in 1982 after two years. He, being loyal to IG, was then shipped to Delhi to become minorities affairs minister. He was never heard from again, until 26/11 when he crapped out some Zaid-Hamid like stuff.
Babasaheb Bhonsale became MH-CM thereafter and seeing the power safely in hands of Sugar-lobby, our Pawar Saheb returned to INC in 1987 as if nothing happened and within matter of few months packed off Shankarrao Chavan to dilli and became CM of MH and president of MH-INC. Beautiful politics. He ensured power of MH remains in hand of Sugar lobby and not anybody else (including Nehrus and Gandhis). But in the process he cultivated his personal image of unreliable politician in minds of Dilli-billi. Meanwhile SS had allied with BJP (in 1985), Shahbano incident had happened and RJB was beginning to gear up.
All this politicking requires loads of money. Kind of money which stable jaagir cannot churn up, hence requires dirty money. It is not easy challenging Delhi (and Indira) and survive. This is where Pawar's alleged connections arise with Haji Mastan and later Dawood. The transfer of money started from 1978 (when he first broke off from INC). Various names like Choksi (the famous Hawala trader) along with owner of a well known Gutkha company (I think Moolchand) were part of all this. All this is part of information available in Public domain, one only needs to dig deeper on the internet. Plus lot has been said about Dawood, Pawar and 1993 blasts and Vohra report, so no point in repeating it. It is slightly tangential to our story.
After death of Rajiv, Pawar was closest to the top-job since Bajirao-1 conquered delhi in 1737. He was undone by his past, machinations of Dynasty-sympathizing lobby who wanted to prop up Sonia, ND Tiwari and Arjun Singh - who like Pawar were also vying for top job. The unlikely winner of this quadrangular match who screwed (although temporarily, but resoundingly) to all four contestants was PVNR who packed off Tiwari, Arjunsingh, Pawar and Sonia-backers. He used all his luck in this (and bomb and liberalization).
His mishandling of name-change of Aurangabad University, series of protests by Anna Hazare, series of demolitions of illegal constructions in Mumbai (mostly funded by builder lobby backed by the "bhai") by G R Khairnar, BMC's deputy commissioner severely eroded the funding of INC.
All these factors and this history, combined caused the aberration of SS-BJP coming to power in 1995. They did fantastic job when in power, just like CBN in AP. Yet in 1999, INC (which means Western MH based Sugar lobby) was back to power. How?
This too is fascinating story. The anti-delhi sentiment has always been popular in MH-public imagination. This is connected to Maratha-Mughal antagonism. Delhi, subconsciously, symbolizes enemy seat which rightfully belongs to Marathas. The terms like "Dillishwara" or "Dilli-pati" means Sultanate and to be precise Aurangzeb. The "rebellion" of Pawar against Sonia prior to 1999 assembly and general elections diverted public attention. 1999 elections are really fascinating. The state and general polls happened simultaneously in MH. Public chose SS-BJP in Loksabha and INC-NCP in state - within matter of 5 minutes, public chose two different poles of political spectrum.
I still cannot understand how INC-NCP (later UPA) could come to power in MH after people witnessed whirlwind progress under SS-BJP. The reason that I now understand is, SS-BJP were not meant to be in power. They did not "win". Sugar-lobby let them win while they set their houses in order meanwhile and reorient themselves in accordance to changing polity and realities of India. SS-BJP did progress, but they did not (could not have) destroy the mass-base and dense network of industrialists, farmers, traders, politicians, police and bankers which form the back-bone of Sugar-lobby. The large network of cooperative banks, societies, factories, farms spread across villages of MH are the real strength of Sugar-lobby.
Last of the banks which were holding out against this lobby were sacrificed at the alter of INC (the new Sonia-MMS-Chiddu's 3G based diwan-e-khas INC). The stories of United Western bank and Ganesh Bank of Kurundwad and their mergers by Chiddu in IDBI and Federal Bank (originally an EJ-funded bank) respectively was the last nail in the coffin. SP again hoped to be PM in 2004 when he allied yet opposed Sonia to be PM. Sonia, via Chiddu, screwed him by forcing Ganesh Bank to merge in Federal Bank. United Western Bank was a very strong and robust bank since 1907 (they funded, covertly of course) to many of the Tilak's proteges. With Tilak's demise, the bank although dominated by brahmins, stayed on very good terms with Sugar Lobby. Almost entire Sugar-belt was dominated by this bank. Chiddu decided to screw this bank up to teach Pawar a lesson. I do not know what Pawar did, but he saved UWB from merging into EJ bank, that is Federal bank. People say the relations between Chiddu and Pawar soured greatly after Pawar played some game and did not allow Federal bank to make inroads in MH.
An interesting trivia here, but the hindi word for Insurance is WIMA (Not Vima). It is an acronym for Western India Mutual Assurance which is the parent company established by Anna Chirmule (The founder of United Western bank) in 1907. This just shows how popular and deep-rooted this institution was. There was a director of United western Bank who refused to give shady loan to Sugar-lobby. Furthermore, he had the audacity to claim the pending loans too. He actually made Pawar pay up. This caused much furor in MH. It is here that the fate of UWB was sealed. The bogey of Brahmin-Maratha dispute was brought up and UWB suddenly became "Brahminical Bank".
This was a lengthy essay. I have been wanting to write this for long time. This is the source of Pawar's power. In all my previous articles I have praised Pawar for keeping the nose of "Delhi" (which meant Nehru/Indira/Sonia) out of MH. He went to great lengths (unethical lengths) to do so. But he has so far ensured that power of Deccan stays in Deccan and Delhi only gets a nominal Chauth in exchange of staying away. He is one of the reasons. why there was hardly any EJ and ROP conversion activity in 1980s and early 90s in MH. Of course the chief being the natural tendency of Maharashtrians which gravitates towards Hindutva.
Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India
The story of WIMA and United Western bank itself is a fascinating story which has deep connections in INC, partition of India.
This was the strongest bank and Insurance company in Western India. Jinnah was wanting to move the operations of this bank to Karachi. Pre-partition Karachi had a huge population of Maharashtrians and Gujarati traders. Annasaheb Chirmule's UWB was the largest bank in this region (in terms of grass-root penetration). All this was before 1944 (when no one knew how Pakistan will look like, if at all it materialized). For some reason, the UWB management started moving out of Karachi back to Mumbai and Satara. Jinnah's plans to lure the Hindu Capital into TSP are indeed mark of a good vakil who will go to any extent to win the case. Socialistic JLN was always a turn off for a businessman.
The bank managed to thrive and expand and adapt to independence, socialism, nationalization, denationalization well until 2003, when the uptight director (I think his surname was Marathe) asked Pawar to pay up.
Here is why Nitin Gadkari is important. Gadkari is the first PIF to replicate this model, but for establishing the network of those whom we call PIF here. Hence, when IT was baying for NG's blood, Pawar was first to come out in his support - even before RSS headquarters could muster up a considered rebuttal and appoint Gurumurthy. The role of this ideologue has been crucial in this shift. Gadkari has exact same cooperative model. In its fundamentals, it is very dharmik model. Hence people fondly remember Yashwantrao Chavan and even tolerate Pawar, despite Chavan's hidden priorities. What is a deal breaker is the dependence on people like Dawood as quick-fixers. Dawood extracted his pound of flesh on numerous occasions. Any Hindu Entrepreneur should read this story.
We need Hindu entrepreneurs. Hindus need to own up and root themselves in their land, using this model. Lot to learn for all those who wish to do something good for the mother. Not everything that Delhi-billi says is bad, is bad.
This was the strongest bank and Insurance company in Western India. Jinnah was wanting to move the operations of this bank to Karachi. Pre-partition Karachi had a huge population of Maharashtrians and Gujarati traders. Annasaheb Chirmule's UWB was the largest bank in this region (in terms of grass-root penetration). All this was before 1944 (when no one knew how Pakistan will look like, if at all it materialized). For some reason, the UWB management started moving out of Karachi back to Mumbai and Satara. Jinnah's plans to lure the Hindu Capital into TSP are indeed mark of a good vakil who will go to any extent to win the case. Socialistic JLN was always a turn off for a businessman.
The bank managed to thrive and expand and adapt to independence, socialism, nationalization, denationalization well until 2003, when the uptight director (I think his surname was Marathe) asked Pawar to pay up.

Here is why Nitin Gadkari is important. Gadkari is the first PIF to replicate this model, but for establishing the network of those whom we call PIF here. Hence, when IT was baying for NG's blood, Pawar was first to come out in his support - even before RSS headquarters could muster up a considered rebuttal and appoint Gurumurthy. The role of this ideologue has been crucial in this shift. Gadkari has exact same cooperative model. In its fundamentals, it is very dharmik model. Hence people fondly remember Yashwantrao Chavan and even tolerate Pawar, despite Chavan's hidden priorities. What is a deal breaker is the dependence on people like Dawood as quick-fixers. Dawood extracted his pound of flesh on numerous occasions. Any Hindu Entrepreneur should read this story.
We need Hindu entrepreneurs. Hindus need to own up and root themselves in their land, using this model. Lot to learn for all those who wish to do something good for the mother. Not everything that Delhi-billi says is bad, is bad.

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India
From narendramodi.in
Praising the work of Dr. Raman Singh, Shri Modi stated, “When Dr. Raman Singh became the Chief Minister, he had two ways ahead of him. The first was to complain day and night and ask Delhi to give the state something. The other option was to take Chhattisgarh on the path of development on the strength of its youth and tribal communities. Dr. Raman Singh did not wait for Delhi. He decided to let Delhi do as it feels but the state will move ahead on its strength. Yes, this path was tough. It is very easy to go to Delhi and ask but Dr. Raman Singh did not do that. He fought but never bowed down.
Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India
Atri ji, in case there is info available on whodonit on liquidation part during 1920s in Maharashtra Punjab Bengal and more any hints could add.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India
That survey is useless. might be a feel good survey for BJP, but bottom line is it means nothing. I dont understand why they keep wasting their time on getting this survey every 6 months once if they are only going to do cities. Why dont they do it for entire india.fanne wrote:also, the same survey (28 cities) before 2009 election was giving Cong head to head with BJP and we know what happenned, BJP got cleaned out of Urban areas
Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India
Also is the new world order similar to EIC with new banker dude goaded to run down support for NaMo/BJP. His policies are strange- allowed raising stakes by foreign promoters or NRIs in ANY listed company. Who are the NRIs here if such thought process could be logical.
This new world order is actually more like takeover by western banking and their stooges and not by some afrikans or neiutral/UN show perhaps. Gungadeen setting up mansabdaaris redux?
Or may be Colonization II - connected by blood with Colonization I?
This new world order is actually more like takeover by western banking and their stooges and not by some afrikans or neiutral/UN show perhaps. Gungadeen setting up mansabdaaris redux?
Or may be Colonization II - connected by blood with Colonization I?
Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India
working in a tech company in NCR, the enthusiasm for modi in office folks is almost equally matched with the utter disdain for bjp and unexplainable loyalty towards congress.
if after all the governance mess, if graduate indians representing middle class seek to vote in the current dispensation, then the Teflon Hand has already uprooted the Flower party like in the previous 2 elections
strange are the ways of this country
if after all the governance mess, if graduate indians representing middle class seek to vote in the current dispensation, then the Teflon Hand has already uprooted the Flower party like in the previous 2 elections
strange are the ways of this country
Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India
Atri ji that was a wonderful post. Your knowledge of the history and politics of Maharashtra is second to none.
Also tells us why there is little hope for NaMo magic to work in Maharashtra and significantly improve the poll performance of the BJP-SS alliance in the upcoming election. People may individually revere NaMo, but that is unlikely to cause much of an impact on voting patterns.
I was hoping to see NaMo and BJP try to aggressively target my home state and try and wrest it from the congis. A natural step to expand out of Gujarat. But now I feel their efforts would be more successful elsewhere.
Also tells us why there is little hope for NaMo magic to work in Maharashtra and significantly improve the poll performance of the BJP-SS alliance in the upcoming election. People may individually revere NaMo, but that is unlikely to cause much of an impact on voting patterns.
I was hoping to see NaMo and BJP try to aggressively target my home state and try and wrest it from the congis. A natural step to expand out of Gujarat. But now I feel their efforts would be more successful elsewhere.
Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India
Atri gurudev, sahasra pranaam! What a wealth of insight in that one post. I read it from beginning to end many times in one sitting, and I say it is one of those rare posts that every BRF-ite should internalize and ponder at length... whether they are specifically interested in MH politics, or more generally in the types of political models that have worked to create stability and prosperity in a federally diverse but integrally united national system.
You have rightly ascribed the jaagirdari model followed by YB Chavan to a luminary forerunner, Raja Todar Mal's Mansabdari system. This was essentially the process that transformed Muslim power on the Gangetic plain from the Turko-Afghan Sultanate model, an extractive entity whose sole purpose was Kabila brigandage, to a more stable Mughal Empire that became relatively more invested in the interests and welfare of its subject lands and peoples. The persistence of an Islamist meme ensured that the Empire reverted to Kabila-giri within a generation or two, but at least the foundations of a structure were laid that could be properly applied by the legates of the Maratha reconquista in its turn.
I would in addition observe that the system itself, with its uniquely balanced model of safeguarding productivity and maintaining regional independence while sustaining the political and economic stability offered by a relationship with the Gangetic imperium, harks back quite a bit further than Todar Mal... at the very least, to the Vakataka Deccan Kshyatrapas who allied with Chandragupta Vikramaditya to displace the Sakas. In fact, going back even further, it is nothing but a large-scale and enormously practical application of varnashrama, that traditionally Indian corporatism which any superimposition of democracy, secularism, socialism or capitalism has only ever served to thwart and despoil.
There are changes each time the model is applied, of course. In large part the functions that the traditional varnashrama model assigns to Kshatriyas, Vaishyas and Shudras have remained exactly consonant during each of these applications. However, during the Gupta era, the Brahmins had their place in the model as well, acting as custodians, transmitters and adaptive customizers of knowledge. During the Mughal times the Brahmins were in eclipse; being the traditional repository of all things Kufr, they had to keep their heads low and serve (if at all) as bean counting darogas. During the Chavan era, as I have learned from you-- the Brahmins were either too deracinated to carry any clout, or else lacked sufficient popular credibility to back up their claims to Hindu leadership. Following two systematic purges of their leading lights by the extractive Gangetic powers, post-Tilak and post-Godse, they had essentially been discarded from the umbilicus that still holds and nurtures the rest of the system together, and still ties all its people (big and small) to the land.
I have some questions for you as well:
1) There was a vast flight of industry out of MH following the '61 movement, the Sena's mobilization against Gujaratis, and (the last straw) the Datta Samant agitation among the Mumbai textile workers in the '70s. Was this process in fact engineered, or at least encouraged in some fashion, by the Saakar-Deshmukhs? After all, a vibrant industry located close to the centre of MH political power could have upset the equation between the Saakar-Deshmukhs (whose power was agro-economical) and Delhi, and also provided an avenue for the entry of other, unpredictable players who might potentially destabilize the political calculus. Relative to manufacturing industries, the newer entrants to Mumbai post the 1980s were in the financial sector... something more abstract, and hence not as threatening to the Saakar-Deshmukhs. Financial types are also far less willing to get their "hands dirty", so to speak, than mill-owners... and hence, leave much more space for power aspirants of the Dawood variety.
2) You seem convinced that the Saakar-Deshmukhs allowed SS-BJP to win in 95, and just as easily ensured their replacement by a Congress-NCP govt in 99. I have to ask... what efforts were made by any of the players in the Manohar Joshi govt, whether Thackeray or Mahajan or Munde, to woo the Saakar-Deshmukh system ideologically away from the Congress moorings that were YB Chavan's legacy? After all, as you point out, their primary loyalty is to themselves and the system they perpetuate, and their broader loyalty is staunchly nationalistic, but they are not necessarily beholden to the Die Nasty. Why could they not have been incorporated as a MH anchor of the NDA, especially with a Vajpayee govt. in charge in New Delhi? Why could Pawar himself not have been swayed to join the nationalist coalition? He had many reasons of his own to resent not only Sonia Gandhi but many others who had thwarted his ambitions after Rajiv's assassination.
Anyway, thank you once again! I was born and raised in Mumbai, but I realize that all the time I lived there I was only seeing one half of the MH political picture... your post has now illuminated the other face of it much more clearly.
You have rightly ascribed the jaagirdari model followed by YB Chavan to a luminary forerunner, Raja Todar Mal's Mansabdari system. This was essentially the process that transformed Muslim power on the Gangetic plain from the Turko-Afghan Sultanate model, an extractive entity whose sole purpose was Kabila brigandage, to a more stable Mughal Empire that became relatively more invested in the interests and welfare of its subject lands and peoples. The persistence of an Islamist meme ensured that the Empire reverted to Kabila-giri within a generation or two, but at least the foundations of a structure were laid that could be properly applied by the legates of the Maratha reconquista in its turn.
I would in addition observe that the system itself, with its uniquely balanced model of safeguarding productivity and maintaining regional independence while sustaining the political and economic stability offered by a relationship with the Gangetic imperium, harks back quite a bit further than Todar Mal... at the very least, to the Vakataka Deccan Kshyatrapas who allied with Chandragupta Vikramaditya to displace the Sakas. In fact, going back even further, it is nothing but a large-scale and enormously practical application of varnashrama, that traditionally Indian corporatism which any superimposition of democracy, secularism, socialism or capitalism has only ever served to thwart and despoil.
There are changes each time the model is applied, of course. In large part the functions that the traditional varnashrama model assigns to Kshatriyas, Vaishyas and Shudras have remained exactly consonant during each of these applications. However, during the Gupta era, the Brahmins had their place in the model as well, acting as custodians, transmitters and adaptive customizers of knowledge. During the Mughal times the Brahmins were in eclipse; being the traditional repository of all things Kufr, they had to keep their heads low and serve (if at all) as bean counting darogas. During the Chavan era, as I have learned from you-- the Brahmins were either too deracinated to carry any clout, or else lacked sufficient popular credibility to back up their claims to Hindu leadership. Following two systematic purges of their leading lights by the extractive Gangetic powers, post-Tilak and post-Godse, they had essentially been discarded from the umbilicus that still holds and nurtures the rest of the system together, and still ties all its people (big and small) to the land.
I have some questions for you as well:
1) There was a vast flight of industry out of MH following the '61 movement, the Sena's mobilization against Gujaratis, and (the last straw) the Datta Samant agitation among the Mumbai textile workers in the '70s. Was this process in fact engineered, or at least encouraged in some fashion, by the Saakar-Deshmukhs? After all, a vibrant industry located close to the centre of MH political power could have upset the equation between the Saakar-Deshmukhs (whose power was agro-economical) and Delhi, and also provided an avenue for the entry of other, unpredictable players who might potentially destabilize the political calculus. Relative to manufacturing industries, the newer entrants to Mumbai post the 1980s were in the financial sector... something more abstract, and hence not as threatening to the Saakar-Deshmukhs. Financial types are also far less willing to get their "hands dirty", so to speak, than mill-owners... and hence, leave much more space for power aspirants of the Dawood variety.
2) You seem convinced that the Saakar-Deshmukhs allowed SS-BJP to win in 95, and just as easily ensured their replacement by a Congress-NCP govt in 99. I have to ask... what efforts were made by any of the players in the Manohar Joshi govt, whether Thackeray or Mahajan or Munde, to woo the Saakar-Deshmukh system ideologically away from the Congress moorings that were YB Chavan's legacy? After all, as you point out, their primary loyalty is to themselves and the system they perpetuate, and their broader loyalty is staunchly nationalistic, but they are not necessarily beholden to the Die Nasty. Why could they not have been incorporated as a MH anchor of the NDA, especially with a Vajpayee govt. in charge in New Delhi? Why could Pawar himself not have been swayed to join the nationalist coalition? He had many reasons of his own to resent not only Sonia Gandhi but many others who had thwarted his ambitions after Rajiv's assassination.
Anyway, thank you once again! I was born and raised in Mumbai, but I realize that all the time I lived there I was only seeing one half of the MH political picture... your post has now illuminated the other face of it much more clearly.
Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India
Inspite of all the corruption, subversion of democracy and justice? Whats the reason?AdityaM wrote:working in a tech company in NCR, the enthusiasm for modi in office folks is almost equally matched with the utter disdain for bjp and unexplainable loyalty towards congress.
Atri bhau, fantastic post. I always postulated the stranglehold of Pawar and his NC on interior MH to be due to the tight network of farmers, co-op banks, factories and trade. You have put it very succinctly.
Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India
you need one case study.. eg: family or head of the family is in RE sector, a broker or in a bureaucratic setup or any area where he enjoying the money that comes via corruption,.. it could be from taxes not paid or fake bills or whatever it is.. congress is the party for it nah!?!?Santosh wrote: Inspite of all the corruption, subversion of democracy and justice? Whats the reason?.
so, when you have a majority of corruption enabled society, then that becomes part of the society, even though it is evil.. this would be like a madrassa setup..where the terrorist has no idea about science and math or moral science, but his evil science is actually god given than human science. will he quit dropping an IED on desh?
same brain cells, that gets addicted to a setup, and would like to continue on free evil money.
---
2.
if one mad elephant is there in the wild, then the destruction is contained within its field or range.. if majority have gone mad, then it is a difficult problem to contain.
animals are not corrupted, and will never ever disobey their well ordained setup. humans are entirely different
--
ps: apologies to animals for equating them to humans.
Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India
Brilliant post Atriji, with one minor quibble:
S.K.Patil, incidentally, was the first unabashedly 'pro-capitalism' votary in Maharashtra INC, and was responsible for getting the PL480 food aid from the USA, during the food crisis late 60's.
S.K.Patil was a Kudaldeshkar Gaud Brahmin from the Konkan (this caste also had surnames such as Thakur), who was independently rich (he owned the Coca Cola franchise for Mumbai), and often in agreement with the Gujarati businessman group who did not want Mumbai to be part of Maharashtra. Not many Maharashtrians know this - they assume he was a Maratha because of his surname. Patil, like Patel, is a occupational name (head of village), and a few non-Marathas (mainly from the Konkan) had this last name.With JLN has head of GOI, nathuram godse's action gave the establishment a chance to cull this budding nationalist forces. The Brahmin-Maratha dispute has been going on in MH since 1741 (began with Peshwa-Bhonsale feud over chauth of Bengal which resulted in infamous Maratha raids on Bengal). This was systematically used to drive out MH-brahmins from villages where they had mass-base. This was done by INC under premiership of Yashwantrao Chavan and S K Patil. After exodus of brahmins from villages, the Marathas got to place their fingers right on the pulse of power. This is where we see the rise of 96-clan lobby in MH (more precisely western MH).
S.K.Patil, incidentally, was the first unabashedly 'pro-capitalism' votary in Maharashtra INC, and was responsible for getting the PL480 food aid from the USA, during the food crisis late 60's.
Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India
RSS, BJP reach pact on Narendra Modi as PM candidate
NEW DELHI: On a day when Prime Minister Manmohan Singh said Rahul Gandhi will be the ideal candidate for Prime Minister in 2014, Sangh Parivar leaders are pressing ahead with their plan to declare Gujarat CM Narendra Modi their PM nominee any time after Monday.
BJP president Rajnath Singh, who has decided not to be hindered any more by continuing opposition to Modi by a couple of bigwigs, reached an understanding on the issue with RSS chief Mohan Bhagwat on Saturday evening.
As per the road map worked out in the late evening discussions, an announcement can come soon after conclusion of a two-day RSS-BJP co-ordination meeting here on Monday.
Significantly, sources said that Modi, who arrived here to attend the RSS-BJP huddle that gets underway on Sunday, joined the deliberations that were also attended by senior RSS leaders like secretary general Suresh "Bhaiyyaji" Joshi and joint secretary general Suresh Soni.
Coming on the eve of the saffron meet, the talks on Saturday evening were intended to shape the agenda for confabulations where the majority view favouring early anointment of Modi is expected to be clearly outlined and impressed upon BJP leaders those like party veteran LK Advani and leader of opposition Sushma Swaraj. Both Advani and Swaraj have so far been reluctant to relax their reservations about declaring Modi as BJP's PM choice at this stage.
The RSS-BJP leaders had last deliberated the issue in August but failed to bring the holdouts around. Parleys with individual leaders, like Rajnath and his immediate predecessor Nitin Gadkari's discussions with another party senior Murli Manohar Joshi, also could not make headway.
Sources said Rajnath, who conveyed his readiness to make an announcement on Modi to the RSS chief, is determined to clinch the issue at the two-day meeting in order to clear the way for an announcement soon after. The party is keen to dodge the fortnight-long inauspicious Hindu period of pitripaksha which begins on September 20 and has, hence, set the December 19 deadline for the purpose.
BJP did not appear over concerned about Prime Minister Manmohan Singh's statement about Rahul Gandhi being the ideal PM candidate. "I doubt they will declare Rahul Gandhi to be their candidate. I dare them to do so," said party spokesperson Sudhanshu Trivedi.
Trivedi's statement reflects the party's assessment that a Rahul versus Modi presidential contest will suit BJP by helping it contrast what it sees as Modi's "strong leadership credentials" against the "amateur and maverick" ways of Congress's heir apparent.
"Frankly speaking as to who should be their candidate is Congress's internal matter and none of our business. But India's experience of people who have not gone through the grind has not been encouraging. Those who got power on a platter, be it Rajiv Gandhi or Akhilesh Yadav and Omar Abdullah, have invariably frittered it away and voters are too wise to ignore that. They will support a leader who has already proven himself," said a BJP leader.
Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India
raja.......... tam yes but not brahmDhananjay wrote:I doubt SS will file anything against a fellow tam-brahm.{/quote}habal wrote:{quote="Amyrao"}SS can file a suit?
kanimozhi, d.raja, karunanidhi..... all tamil, two of them spent time in jail because of SS.
kanimozhi, & karunanidhi.......neither tam or brahm

Last edited by chetak on 08 Sep 2013 08:23, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India
Atri ji,
thank you for the series of enlightening posts. it gives a very good roundup of the Maharashtra politics since 1947.
the seeds of future also lie in the same churning of the present, which is the consequence of the moves of the 20th century.
thank you for the series of enlightening posts. it gives a very good roundup of the Maharashtra politics since 1947.
the seeds of future also lie in the same churning of the present, which is the consequence of the moves of the 20th century.
Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India
Delhi has disproportionately large number of folk on the congressi gravy train - in that sense its unique from rest of the country. May be those congressi supporters are related to them.AdityaM wrote:working in a tech company in NCR, the enthusiasm for modi in office folks is almost equally matched with the utter disdain for bjp and unexplainable loyalty towards congress.
if after all the governance mess, if graduate indians representing middle class seek to vote in the current dispensation, then the Teflon Hand has already uprooted the Flower party like in the previous 2 elections
strange are the ways of this country
Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India
All clear then... LKA sure to take deputy role. I doubt LKA >= RSS. I think loh purush should begin to find a nice place, and get on a great role to play.. he can do his road/rail/air trips again... especially down in the areas where he has lost pride.
if they (camp lka) don't come up quick.. they are harming bjp, and in turn shooting themselves up.
if they (camp lka) don't come up quick.. they are harming bjp, and in turn shooting themselves up.
Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India
Time for LKA to take Balasaheb Thakre type spot of ideological figurehead and guide. That will be in everybody's interests including his own.
Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India
This the story I would recommend for LKA and his team:
http://sanathanavedham.com/1-satisfacti ... t-we-have/
http://sanathanavedham.com/1-satisfacti ... t-we-have/
Last edited by SaiK on 08 Sep 2013 09:28, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India
karunanidhi isn't tamil?chetak wrote:raja.......... tam yes but not brahmDhananjay wrote: kanimozhi, d.raja, karunanidhi..... all tamil, two of them spent time in jail because of SS.
kanimozhi, & karunanidhi.......neither tam or brahm

Damn I had no idea, inspite of going to Tiruppur, satyamangalam almost every year for last 7 years.
What are they then? It's a shock like if I find out that Parkash Singh Badal and Gurcharan Singh Tohra aren't Punjabis.
Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India
karu-nai-nidhi (black-dog-treasure) -is a- seemandhraite by inheritence.
there is a reason when i say the name "rajnikanth".. TN has a history from MGR.. (mallo), KN (andhra), and jaya (kannad). so, rajnikanth fits being a mahrashtrian.
there is a reason when i say the name "rajnikanth".. TN has a history from MGR.. (mallo), KN (andhra), and jaya (kannad). so, rajnikanth fits being a mahrashtrian.
Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India
Published on Sep 6, 2013
In a candid conversation, Kunal Majumder talks to Sanjay Jha about his new book 'The Superstar Syndrome' and what is to be Congress spokesperson.
Why are they after ABV now when he is no longer in power for more than 10 years.
In a candid conversation, Kunal Majumder talks to Sanjay Jha about his new book 'The Superstar Syndrome' and what is to be Congress spokesperson.
Why are they after ABV now when he is no longer in power for more than 10 years.
Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India
Great post.Atri wrote:
All these factors and this history, combined caused the aberration of SS-BJP coming to power in 1995. They did fantastic job when in power, just like CBN in AP. Yet in 1999, INC (which means Western MH based Sugar lobby) was back to power. How?
This too is fascinating story. The anti-delhi sentiment has always been popular in MH-public imagination. This is connected to Maratha-Mughal antagonism. Delhi, subconsciously, symbolizes enemy seat which rightfully belongs to Marathas. The terms like "Dillishwara" or "Dilli-pati" means Sultanate and to be precise Aurangzeb. The "rebellion" of Pawar against Sonia prior to 1999 assembly and general elections diverted public attention. 1999 elections are really fascinating. The state and general polls happened simultaneously in MH. Public chose SS-BJP in Loksabha and INC-NCP in state - within matter of 5 minutes, public chose two different poles of political spectrum.
I still cannot understand how INC-NCP (later UPA) could come to power in MH after people witnessed whirlwind progress under SS-BJP. The reason that I now understand is, SS-BJP were not meant to be in power. They did not "win". Sugar-lobby let them win while they set their houses in order meanwhile and reorient themselves in accordance to changing polity and realities of India. SS-BJP did progress, but they did not (could not have) destroy the mass-base and dense network of industrialists, farmers, traders, politicians, police and bankers which form the back-bone of Sugar-lobby. The large network of cooperative banks, societies, factories, farms spread across villages of MH are the real strength of Sugar-lobby.
Just last week heard Anna in public gathering. It showed how deeply connected he is inside MH.
Will give an update.
Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India
"During the ten years of his rule, Dr Raman Singh had infused a new life in the people of Chhattisgarh. But the doctor in Delhi, who is doctor of finance, the Rupee is in hospital hanging between life and death," he said.

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India
Chandragupta, Kapil Dave...all ye evil Internet Hindoo's here's a great chance to vent out and have fun:
And pray..who posts this Fascist crap?
ashutosh
@ashutoshibn7
Managing Editor-IBN7, Anchor, Columnist . Author of Book-Anna 13 Days That Awakened India.Views personal,retweets not endorsement.
DELHI
And whats up with Ramachandra Guha..he's ripping Ashutosh's..
ashutosh @ashutoshibn7 17m
I repeat those who are writing anti Muslim tweets should be arrested. Unless they are put behind bars they will not change. Harmony is must.
ashutosh @ashutoshibn7 39m
Great number of people on twitter claim themselves to be pro Hindutwa,write anti Muslim tweets.As per law they should be arrested.
And pray..who posts this Fascist crap?
ashutosh
@ashutoshibn7
Managing Editor-IBN7, Anchor, Columnist . Author of Book-Anna 13 Days That Awakened India.Views personal,retweets not endorsement.
DELHI
And whats up with Ramachandra Guha..he's ripping Ashutosh's..

Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India
harbans that account is a parody acct
Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India
You mean Ramachandra Guha's?
Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India
yupharbans wrote:You mean Ramachandra Guha's?
Re: Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India
The ambitious dilli-billi should be incorporated wholly into external affairs. The entire Luten area should be made external affairs ministry region. Plus BJP should now understand advantage of power for desh vikaas and start making deals with all regional satraps. Else the dilli-billi will just behave as mob for personal interests with bar set to divide-and-rule standard for own.