J&K News and Discussion-2011

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 26 Sep 2013 22:47

^^^But but....that will annoy the west and they will stop looking at India as the moral nation of the world. West's terrorists are terrorists, India's terrorists are freedom fighters.

Absolutely amazing how the world's 2nd largest nation has been reduced to such a pathetic weak country.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 26 Sep 2013 22:49

One of the dead policemen had his brains blown out and unarmed civilians were shot in plain cold blood . Seeing the feral swine dead gives a little relief, but it's not enough

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 26 Sep 2013 23:20

For prespective:

http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/j-k-t ... rmy-424096

... "Four terrorists entered Jammu region from across the border this morning," said Home Minister Sushil Kumar Shinde, quoting preliminary reports, according to PTI. The news agency also quotes the Army as saying that it foiled a major infiltration bid along the Line of Control in Keran sector of Kupwara yesterday and that around 30 militants are still believed to be trapped as security forces have cordoned off the area.

The heavily armed terrorists attacked the Hiranagar police station in Kathua district of J&K at about 6.45 this morning. They shot the sentry outside and three cops inside the police station and then escaped in a truck that they hijacked, to surface in an Army cantonment in the adjoining Samba district.

At the camp, they reportedly walked into the officer's mess shouting jihadi slogans and killed at least five unarmed Armymen, including the Lt Col, who was the second in command of the 16 Cavalry, the armoured corp unit attacked today. The Lieutenant Colonel was reportedly shot in the stomach at point back range.

The commanding officer of 16 Cavalry is among over a dozen people injured in the two attacks. He has been shot twice and is in critical condition. ...

Looks like standard IA policy not to carry weapons near the border terrorist infested areas.....

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 26 Sep 2013 23:23

Oh but they are misguided youth who do not represent Islam. Anyways ~~Babri Masjid~~ ~~, Gujrat Riots~~
10000000000 Indian security forces in Kashmir is the real reason for this mischief by these alleged Pakistani militants.
Moreover pls dont talk about this incident as if it never happened else it will derail peace talk between India and Pakistan who are nuclear weapons enabled foes and have fought 4 wars over Cashmere.
Pakistan and India together can be a great entity only if Indians would stop bothering about some Indians dying here and there.
Lastly Army men are paid to die for the country.

PS: I feel like throwing up on the leadership of this country.

Yayavar · Post by **Yayavar** » 26 Sep 2013 23:26

regarding ndtv report: I still dont get it. How did they just walk into the officer's mess. Also, confusing is whether there were 3, as in HT report, or 30 as above. I hope they are all killed and not kept as another set of 'misguided youth' in jails to be released later.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 26 Sep 2013 23:33

4 hit the officers mess and at the same time 30 were pushed across the border. We lost 12.

Yayavar · Post by **Yayavar** » 26 Sep 2013 23:36

..thanks RoyG.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 26 Sep 2013 23:43

http://www.deccanchronicle.com/130926/n ... r-among-10

A lesser-known militant outfit 'Shohada Brigade' claimed responsibility for the attack.

"We carried out the attacks in Kathua and Samba in Jammu region," a person who identified himself as Sami-ul-Haq, the spokesperson of the outfit, told the media on phone. He claimed they were locals.

J and K DGP Ashok Prasad said the militants had boarded an auto at gun point from Hariya Chuk graveyard in village Jhandi, barely one km from the International Border(IB), and asked the driver Roshan Lal to take the vehicle to an Army camp at Hiranagar. Unable to locate the camp, the militants hurled grenades and stormed the police station at 6.45 AM where they killed a sentry at the gate and then an ASI Ratan Singh and a Special Police Officer. A constable, who was resting on the second floor of the police station, was also gunned down in the indiscriminate firing, Police said.

{Four police men were murdered. I hope people will atleast accept this is murder and not ambush!}

Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and his Pakistani counterpart Nawaz Sharif are due to meet in New York on September 29 on the sidelines of the UN General Assembly.

The auto driver, who managed to escape after dropping the militants at the police station, informed the police that the terrorists had also gunned down a PCO owner Suresh before hijacking a tempo truck which had been seized by the police the previous night. The tempo driver was asked to be taken to a nearby Army camp at Samba while the cleaner Mohammed Feroz, a resident of Kashmir Valley, was shot dead.

{So two civilians were also murdered.}

The truck was stopped outside the Army camp at Samba and the militants then opened indiscriminate firing on jawans deployed at its security gate before they stormed the premises.

They barged into the Army Mess where they resorted to heavy indiscriminate firing as troops geared up and retaliated resulting in fierce gunbattle which was still on. Army moved in crack commandos and quick action teams inside the camp where TV footages showed tanks moving inside in the hunt for the militants.

At the army camp, gunshots were heard from inside the walled compound. Two officers were seen running out carrying an injured man over their shoulder. "I was inside the dhaba (a roadside eatery) when I saw three men entering the camp firing a barrage of bullets. They opened the gates and entered," an unidentified man told TV channels.

{All along a terrorist squad of three in this attack}

The traffic on the Jammu-Pathankot highway near the area of the attack at the police station was briefly suspended.

The attack seen by Chief Minister Omar Abdullah as an attempt to derail the talks between the prime ministers of India and Pakistan came a day after Manmohan Singh left for the US. BJP has demanded that the talks be cancelled.

Indians don't want the talks, Indian opposition doesn't want the talks, Indian Army doesn't want the talk, Terrorists do not want the talks, Pakistan doesn't want the talks unless the core issue is resolved, Omar Abdullah knows that J&K never merged with India.

Then why these talks? Why this Naramedham?

johneeG · Post by **johneeG** » 26 Sep 2013 23:49

RamaY wrote:http://www.deccanchronicle.com/130926/n ... r-among-10

Indians don't want the talks, Indian opposition doesn't want the talks, Indian Army doesn't want the talk, Terrorists do not want the talks, Pakistan doesn't want the talks unless the core issue is resolved, Omar Abdullah knows that J&K never merged with India.

Then why these talks? Why this Naramedham?

US wants talks! PM wants talks!!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 27 Sep 2013 00:19

viv wrote:regarding ndtv report: I still dont get it. How did they just walk into the officer's mess. Also, confusing is whether there were 3, as in HT report, or 30 as above. I hope they are all killed and not kept as another set of 'misguided youth' in jails to be released later.

Viv the NDTV report said

The bodies of the three terrorists - aged between 16 and 19 - and believed to be from the banned Pakistan-based terror group Lashkar-e-Taiba or LeT, are in the custody of the Army, officials said. Police sources have ruled out the possibility of a fourth terrorist. The gunmen were killed after a four-hour-long gunbattle

It was Home Minster Shinde in Delhi who claimed worngly for which no one will take him to task

"Four terrorists entered Jammu region from across the border this morning," said Home Minister Sushil Kumar Shinde, quoting preliminary reports, according to PTI.

Thank god he is Home Minister instead of still at a police station for he would have wrong information on a FIR!

But PTI confused the issue by reporting about another incident in the same story

The news agency also quotes the Army as saying that it foiled a major infiltration bid along the Line of Control in Keran sector of Kupwara yesterday and that around 30 militants are still believed to be trapped as security forces have cordoned off the area.

And NDTV in its fair and balanced postion/stance continues the confusion by stating in the next para:

The heavily armed terrorists attacked the Hiranagar police station in Kathua district of J&K at about 6.45 this morning. They shot the sentry outside and three cops inside the police station and then escaped in a truck that they hijacked, to surface in an Army cantonment in the adjoining Samba district.

So you are forgiven for being confused because the objective was to confuse the reader so MMS and coterie's piss process can continue.

And Press Council will never pull up PTI which feeds most of the wrong news to all the dailies.

Yayavar · Post by **Yayavar** » 27 Sep 2013 01:01

Ramana: thanks. The only 'silver lining' is that NDTV did use the 'terrorist' word.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 27 Sep 2013 02:29

Viv et al, A very good factual description form Chandigarh Tribune

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2013/20130927/main1.htm

Yayavar · Post by **Yayavar** » 27 Sep 2013 03:09

Thanks Ramana. It will probably take some time for us to know how these guys gained entry walking in from a truck.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 27 Sep 2013 03:21

viv wrote:Thanks Ramana. It will probably take some time for us to know how these guys gained entry walking in from a truck.

This POV may be controversial, but why are we always caught with our pants down?? Why, time and time again??

The border situation has been hot for quite sometime now. No one cared to take basic precautions?? Caught again by the old army uniform trick??

I seem to have better perimeter fencing in my bloody farmhouse.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 27 Sep 2013 06:57

Gentlemen,

If I may, I'd like to add some points on this attack on the 16 Cavalry in Samba. A lot of people have said multiple things about security and putting up strong perimeter and fences and stuff but IMO, these suggestions are removed from understanding of ground situation. My father was posted at one point in Mamun Cantt - which is one of the cantonments in Pathankot and houses bulk of 29 Infantry Division. And I have visited Samba once.

1. When once says Army camp or cantonment, the picture one gets is of this large exclusive area for housing Army which is bound on all sides. Well, this picture is true to some extend. There are cantonments which are compact and bound on all sides with high boundary walls with all army formations within these four walls, so to speak.

2. But most of the time, this is not the case. Take for example the 16 Cavalry unit which was attacked. It is part of the military area but situated bang on the highway. Only thing separating this unit from outside world would be high fence or boundary wall. And as this attack showed, the gunmen went for one of the three entrance gates to the unit from highway. If one looks up the location of this unit, one would also see that rear areas of the unit face forested area/jungle. Which can serve as another entry point for dedicated attackers.

3. And there are many such units situated astride the main roads across length and breadth of Punjab and Jammu. It used to be a pass-time activity to be able to count the number of tanks in an armored regiment as one's school bus went by on the highway. Apart from army units, the residential units in many military areas also lack depth and are visible+accessible from main roads in the area.

4. Simple point is this - apart from putting up a high boundary wall along the perimeter and have more sentry/guards at entrance points/vulnerable areas, there is not much you can do. Too much troop commitment would interfere in their normal duties. For example, how many men can an armored unit like 16 Cav employ for such duties?

A dedicated enemy with resources and time can plan most spectacular of attacks. The defense lies in deterrence and not putting up boundary walls - as it is, there are only so many walls you can put up before you become prisoner in your own country.

prahaar · Post by **prahaar** » 27 Sep 2013 07:10

@Rohitvats, extremely useful as well as important point you have made about limitations of perimeter security. If some area is mosquito infested, we cannot go out to do shopping wearing a mosquito net. The sustainable solution is to remove the water logging to prevent mosquito infestation. Without cleaning the dirt in the surroundings, putting mosquito net in the house will not prevent malaria. We (as in India) has gone too much into the "increase security for a given perimeter", which is unsustainable.

It is a very inexpensive war for Pakistan, if all they need is train and send 10 people to die occasionally and GOI has to spend 1000+ crores to increase security.

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 27 Sep 2013 07:31

We have to find a way to raise the cost to pakistan and the jihadis. I Indian dead, at least 5 pakis/jihadis dead. Nothing else will work. Right now, the equation is the other way around and we are doing exactly *nothing* to change it.
And I have always been mystified and wondered--what are the points of discussion in "peace talks" with pakistan? What will MMS actually discuss with Sharif? Do we actually have anything we can discuss without being abused and humiliated? Only thing I can think is pakis say "give us J&K" and we reply "no". We say "stop terrorism", pakis say "can't". What else?

chanakyaa · Post by **chanakyaa** » 27 Sep 2013 08:08

RamaY wrote:
sunnyP wrote:Jammu and Kashmir never merged with India, says Omar Abdullah
Fair enough! We can understand Omar Abdullah's point.

There is a difference between accession and merger.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_ ... on_process

Now the question is who will sign the merger agreement? Is it Omar Abdullah or J&K Assembly or people of J&K or who?

What happens if GoI puts a bill in parliament for forced merger of J&K (like Hyderabad) and changes the constitution for it? Will Omar Abdullah then join Pakistan and wage war with India?

Why is J&K so special compared to other hundreds of principalities?

What a pathetic state of affairs that a chief minister is allowed to entertain such ideas. Discussion of accession or merger is irrelevant, sir. shock and awe....Looks like time to send Mumbai police encounter specialists. Roadside accident will look very natural on 0mar Bulla...har har Mahadev.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 27 Sep 2013 14:11

http://www.rediff.com/news/report/why-t ... 130927.htm

A preliminary internal assessment has concluded that the three-member suicide squad had chosen the Samba-based armoured unit with deliberate care, since a Cavalry or armoured unit is normally not as adept at counter-insurgency operations as an infantry unit, reports RS Chauhan.

The Army's Northern and Western Commands have ordered a comprehensive review of the perimeter security and Standard Operating Procedures of various units and installations in Jammu and adjoining regions following Thursday's audacious attack on the 16 Cavalry unit at Samba that killed four Armymen apart from six others.

An internal preliminary assessment has concluded that the three-member suicide squad had chosen the Samba-based armoured unit with deliberate care. A Cavalry or armoured unit is normally not as adept at counter-insurgency operations as an infantry unit. Moreover, as NDTV's Nitin Gokhale pointed out on Thursday, the 16 Cavalry unit is part of 9 Corps, headquartered at Yol under the Chandigarh-based Western Command and is not part of the anti-infiltration grid in place under the Northern Command.

The terrorists, well-versed in close quarter combat, shot the lone sentry at the 16 Cavalry gate and headed straight to the Officers Mess gunning down the second in command of the unit, Ll Col Bikramjit Singh, from point blank range. They had also shot and injured the Commanding Officer, Col Uthaiah, on their way to the officers mess

Although the 16 Cavalry troops rallied immediately after the initial shock and surprise, it was not until two neighbouring infantry units came in to corner the terrorists that the situation was brought under control and the three fidayeen were neutralised.

The security review by the two commands is likely to recommend a three-tiered entry and exit gate security system besides strengthening of the perimeter fence in all units in the area.

Meanwhile, recoveries from the dead terrorists indicate that they had come with specific objective in mind and were prepared to die rather than attempt an escape. Normally, terrorists who plan to operate for a longer duration carry dry fruits, SIM cards for mobile phones that can work in India and warm clothing.

Investigators have also concluded that the banned terror group Lashkar-e-Tayiba was behind the audacious attack.

"It fits into a pattern that we have seen earlier. Also, weapons recovered from the killed militants -- three AK-47 rifles, one pistol, eight grenades and 12 magazines -- have the traditional trademark of the LeT," a senior official said.

The LeT is known to carry out spectacular attacks with meticulous training, planning and minimal weapons, NDTV's Sudhi Ranjan Sen has reported.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 28 Sep 2013 05:38

^Above report contradicts the auto driver testimony that the three terrorists were looking for an Army camp in Hiranagar and attacked the police station. Then they hijacked a truck and attacked the Army camp at Samba.

J and K DGP Ashok Prasad said the militants had boarded an auto at gun point from Hariya Chuk graveyard in village Jhandi, barely one km from the International Border(IB), and asked the driver Roshan Lal to take the vehicle to an Army camp at Hiranagar. Unable to locate the camp, the militants hurled grenades and stormed the police station at 6.45 AM where they killed a sentry at the gate and then an ASI Ratan Singh and a Special Police Officer. A constable, who was resting on the second floor of the police station, was also gunned down in the indiscriminate firing, Police said.

{Four police men were murdered. I hope people will atleast accept this is murder and not ambush!}

Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and his Pakistani counterpart Nawaz Sharif are due to meet in New York on September 29 on the sidelines of the UN General Assembly.

The auto driver, who managed to escape after dropping the militants at the police station, informed the police that the terrorists had also gunned down a PCO owner Suresh before hijacking a tempo truck which had been seized by the police the previous night. The tempo driver was asked to be taken to a nearby Army camp at Samba while the cleaner Mohammed Feroz, a resident of Kashmir Valley, was shot dead.

{So two civilians were also murdered.}

The truck was stopped outside the Army camp at Samba and the militants then opened indiscriminate firing on jawans deployed at its security gate before they stormed the premises.

They barged into the Army Mess where they resorted to heavy indiscriminate firing as troops geared up and retaliated resulting in fierce gunbattle which was still on. Army moved in crack commandos and quick action teams inside the camp where TV footages showed tanks moving inside in the hunt for the militants.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 28 Sep 2013 10:59

More terrorist attacks in Jammu, They've taken school children hostage.

Is it in news yet ?

kmkraoind · Post by **kmkraoind** » 28 Sep 2013 11:12

Marten wrote:Loved the pictures of the rats - especially the parts where a hand is missing and the leg is dutifully kept upside down next to the rat's body.
Now only if they had also kept the neck beside the torso and let the other rats know they would spend eternity headless.

Have you noticed, all these terrorists are aged between 16-19. It seems Pakis are sending juvenile for terror acts. Even if we caught them, we have to treat them as Desh-Ka-Damads for 3 years and have to release back. To counter such, either we need to bring separate terror laws akin to TADA or POTA or fast amend Juvenile acts.

nawabs · Post by **nawabs** » 28 Sep 2013 11:20

Suspected terrorists spotted in Jammu and Kashmir

http://zeenews.india.com/news/jammu-and ... 79799.html

Two days after twin terror attacks killed 12 people in Jammu and Kashmir, including an Army officer, suspected terrorists have been spotted in Kathua district.

The suspects were spotted in Dayalachak area in Kathua and state police and Army have launched a joint search operation. The suspected terrorists are believed to have entered a school in Pathwala village and security forces have surrounded the school building.

As a precautionary measure, the Jammu-Pathankot highway has been closed. Red alert had been sounded in the Jammu region following Thursday's strikes. Security was also beefed up outside different Army camps and police headquarters.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 28 Sep 2013 13:27

ramana wrote:^Above report contradicts the auto driver testimony that the three terrorists were looking for an Army camp in Hiranagar and attacked the police station. Then they hijacked a truck and attacked the Army camp at Samba.

J and K DGP Ashok Prasad said the militants had boarded an auto at gun point from Hariya Chuk graveyard in village Jhandi, barely one km from the International Border(IB), and asked the driver Roshan Lal to take the vehicle to an Army camp at Hiranagar. Unable to locate the camp, the militants hurled grenades and stormed the police station at 6.45 AM where they killed a sentry at the gate and then an ASI Ratan Singh and a Special Police Officer. A constable, who was resting on the second floor of the police station, was also gunned down in the indiscriminate firing, Police said.

{Four police men were murdered. I hope people will atleast accept this is murder and not ambush!}

Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and his Pakistani counterpart Nawaz Sharif are due to meet in New York on September 29 on the sidelines of the UN General Assembly.

The auto driver, who managed to escape after dropping the militants at the police station, informed the police that the terrorists had also gunned down a PCO owner Suresh before hijacking a tempo truck which had been seized by the police the previous night. The tempo driver was asked to be taken to a nearby Army camp at Samba while the cleaner Mohammed Feroz, a resident of Kashmir Valley, was shot dead.

{So two civilians were also murdered.}

The truck was stopped outside the Army camp at Samba and the militants then opened indiscriminate firing on jawans deployed at its security gate before they stormed the premises.

They barged into the Army Mess where they resorted to heavy indiscriminate firing as troops geared up and retaliated resulting in fierce gunbattle which was still on. Army moved in crack commandos and quick action teams inside the camp where TV footages showed tanks moving inside in the hunt for the militants.

Received by email

After the incident of 26 Sep I was in touch with an offr of the Regt (16
Cav). I att his mail to dispel any rumour mongering.
*Satpal Sidhu*

*As per initial inputs, the 3 militants came to the No1 Gate, which was
closed and shouted curses at DKK Reddy, who shouted back at them. They shot
him through the bunker window, before he could ract with his weapon - he
thought they were a neighbouring unit men. They went to the rear of the
Mess where Inder singh was having a bath and tossed a grenade into the
bathroom. One it appears circled the far side of the mess and 2 went back
to the road and started mov forward, when accosted by MS Rao, who was shot
dead. BJ Singh, thinking it was one of our soldier running amok, came
running out of his house shouting at the soldier to desist - little
realising it was a militant attack- they were in fatigues. All three were
together and he got the burst of all three. This gave toime to CO and one
of the guards, by now both armed to accost them with fire. The militants
sprayed bullets and went into the first bldg in front - the guest room
complex. The CO got hit, left elbow and chest, but despite the injureis,
took position and shouted for his brave 'Tambis', who reacted swiftly and
surrounded the bldg. But for this the casualties could have been more, as
this was the offrs family complex and children were leaving for school!!!*
*Then came the tanks. One of the offrs wife was trapped upstairs, either
Mukul's or Balwas's wife - will confirm. She was brought even as the
militants tried to rush up to take her hostage. The brave 'Tambis' then let
them have it, even fired 2 x HE rounds, which I am certain lead to the
death of atleast one if not two militants.*
*By now the QRTs of the 2 x units across the road also came and
strengthened the cordon. The finally 9 SF was also brought in. All three
militants were killed.*
*Am reaching today. Be back by Sunday, and fill up the details*
*

*

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 28 Sep 2013 16:04

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 29 Sep 2013 04:42

We'll never, ever compromise on J&K border: Manmohan at UN

NEW YORK: Prime Minister Manmohan Singh has a message for Pakistan as far as the Jammu and Kashmir is concerned: Forget it.

In some of the bluntest, uncompromising message ever put across by an Indian Prime Minister at the UN, Singh laid down the line in the sand — the lakshman rekha so to say — saying "There must be a clear understanding of the fact that J&K is an integral part of India and there can never, ever, be a compromise with the unity and territorial integrity of India."

dnivas · Post by **dnivas** » 29 Sep 2013 04:55

ramana wrote:I think we should lead a campaign to boycott Indian media that calls terrorists as militants.

They had no problem in callin ghte Al Shahbab terrorists in Kenya as terrorists.

So why the ambiguity wrt to terrorists from TSP unless they are fellow travellers.

Hindu doing the same here , calling Balochi freedom fighters 'terrorists' but in the same vein calling Paki terrorists 'militants'

http://www.thehindu.com/news/internatio ... epage=true

Four soldiers killed by terrorists during relief work in Balochistan

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/o ... elatedNews

Twelve persons, including a Lieutenant Colonel, died in two militant attacks on police and Army formations in Kathua and Samba districts of Jammu and Kashmir on Thursday.

Deputy Inspector General of Police, Jammu-Kathua range, Shakeel Beg told The Hindu that four men of the J&K police, three Army personnel, including the second-in-command of 16 Cavalry, and two civilians were killed even as the security forces killed all the three militants in the daylong gunfight.

extremely pathetic. I posted a comment which never got published

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 29 Sep 2013 08:04

Takht-e-Suleiman (Throne of Solomon)??

ASI’s Assault on Shankaracharya Hill

According to this Tribune news report, the Archaeological Survey of India (ASI) has summarily renamed the Shankaracharya Hill to Takht-e-Suleiman overlooking the Dal Lake in Srinagar. If this was not enough, the ASI has also presented a distorted version of the history of the Shankaracharya Hill on the tourist information plaque, a move which has justifiably outraged the Kashmiri Pandits. From that news report:

“It is a matter of great concern that ASI has given the name Takht-e-Suleiman (Throne of Solomon) to it, replacing the earlier plaque. How have they come to this conclusion warrants an answer,” said Predhuman K Joseph Dhar, an expert on ancient Kashmir history. He said recently a European historian visited the place and expressed surprise over information provided to the people.

Of course, there is no question that this move is politically motivated because it has no basis in history. One wonders what is the connection between Suleiman/Solmon and Adi Shankara.

Even a layman in India knows that Adi Shankara travelled in all four directions in India and established Mutts in prominent places in each direction. That apart, he consecrated several other major and minor temples and other places of worship like in Kanchipuram in Tamil Nadu, Kollur in Karnataka, and in Sharada in Pak-occupied Kashmir.

Kashmir indeed has a hoary history as one of the finest centres of learning in the world. In its heydays, it attracted scholars and philosophers from all parts of India. In the annals of the Hindu tradition, Kashmir was almost synonymous with “Sharada Desha” or “Sharada Peetha” or the Pedestal of Goddess Sharada (or Saraswati, the Goddess of Learning). A conclusive evidence of this exalted status of Kashmir can best be gleaned from the famous verse in praise of Saraswathi as

Namaste Sharada Devi Kashmirapuravasini||
I bow to you, Goddess Sharada,
the One who Resides in the Kashmira country||

This verse is so commonplace recited and heard by millions of Hindus daily across the world that hardly anybody gives a second thought at the rich historical heritage that’s embedded in it. And the credit for establishing Kashmir as the Sharada Peetha, to make it part of the nation’s cultural and spiritual DNA goes to Adi Shankara.

And it is this hoary heritage that the ASI has sought to destroy unceremoniously by renaming the Hill after some Suleiman based on a spurious history. Needless, in the process, real history has been made an unfortunate victim. From the same report,

“While the plaque informs the people that the roof of the temple was constructed by Mughal emperor Shah Jahan in 1644 AD, there is no mention of King Gopadhari, who constructed the temple, King Lalitaditya, who renovated it several hundred years before the arrival of Islam in the 13th century, and Dogra rulers, who placed the lingam of Lord Shiva, which was destroyed at the orders of Jehangir’s wife Noor Jehan,” said Dhar

As for the spurious history,

Talking about the name Takht-e-Suleiman, New York-based historian and author of “Jesus in Kashmir- The Lost Tomb’, Suzanne Olsson, said at one time Kashmir was controlled by Jews and Suleiman referred to Solomon, King of Israel and one of the greatest Jewish rulers, known for his wisdom and riches. “In ancient times, there was a considerable influence of Hebrew people in Kashmir. Several places have names similar to Jewish places. But historically, it is referred to as Shankaracharya Hill,” Olsson said.

One wonders whether Suzanne Olsson even understands how she contradicts her own assertion. If Jews had indeed controlled Kashmir, why don’t we have a single piece of evidence to show for it? And second, she doesn’t quite explain why despite the Jewish control, the Hill was revered and renowned as the Shankaracharya Hill? And why doesn’t Rajatarangini, the most definitive account of Kashmir’s history mention the presence–let alone control–of Jews even once? And why haven’t the galaxy of scholars and litterateurs from Kashmir–Kalhana, Abhinavagupta, Anandavardhana, Kshemendra, et al–mention Jewish influence? The truth is the Suzanne Olsson happens to be the latest purveyor of the phony theory that Jesus visited/lived in Kashmir. Two definitive sources are sufficient to puncture Suzanne Olsson’s motivated claim about Jesus in Kashmir. The first is by the redoubtable Koenraad Elst, and the second by a Buddhist monk and scholar named Shravasti Dhammika who takes a close look into various Suzanne Olssonsesque myths about Jesus’ visit and stay in India.

All kinds of scholars making all kinds of fantastic assertions have existed since time immemorial. However, it is regrettable that the ASI, a body of the Government of India, chose to put out one such fantastic claim as the official history of a place based purely on political consideration. This does disservice not just to Hindus but to the nation’s precious heritage as a whole. More importantly, it is a dangerous portent. As we’ve seen in the case of the St. Thomas Church of Mylapore how an existing Hindu place of worship was appropriated by Christian missionaries through deceit and declared as one of the sites of Christian piety.

Given this, what is the guarantee that the “Takht-e-Suleiman” will not become a dargah or mosque some time in the near or distant future and thereby erase another living place of Hindu heritage permanently?

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 29 Sep 2013 12:08

chetak wrote: The brave 'Tambis' then let
them have it, even fired 2 x HE rounds, which I am certain lead to the
death of atleast one if not two militants.*
*By now the QRTs of the 2 x units across the road also came and
strengthened the cordon. The finally 9 SF was also brought in. All three
militants were killed.*

So the 'militants' got a taste of 125 MM

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 29 Sep 2013 16:05

Wow, speaks volumes for the readiness of the armored corps units plus and explains the footage of those T-72s rolling down the road...

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 30 Sep 2013 01:05

As far as location of these bases is concerned, Rohit is quite right. The entry gates of these bases are right on national highway and there is no buffer zone. In some stretches, the highway is elevated and people on road can peek inside the base for quite some distance. Army tried putting up cloth/net screens at some places, but they are largely ineffective in preventing people from having a good look inside the bases. AFAIK the base which was attacked is not exactly on a lower elevation, but it can surely do with a bit of security upgrades.

There are other entry points on opposite sides which are not that easily accessible from road.

Tambi in Dogri is the pyajama.

What is brave tambis ?

KrishnaK · Post by **KrishnaK** » 30 Sep 2013 01:10

jamwal,
tambi means younger brother in tamil. tamils (lot of southies even) are affectionately called tambis in the army.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 30 Sep 2013 04:49

‘Army’s secret Division would have prevented Samba-like encounters’

The Samba attack by Pakistan-based elements could have been avoided if the Technical Services Division (TSD) had not been shut down a year ago, claim senior military officers who wish to remain unnamed. Speaking to them, it becomes clear that the decision by incoming Chief of Army Staff (COAS) General Bikram Singh to shut down the TSD of the Army immediately upon taking charge from General V.K. Singh a year ago has been greeted with dismay by his own officers, especially those on the frontline of Pakistan terror. These officers say that the scrapping of the TSD is a major reason why there has been a spurt in cross-border intrusions over the past year, and warn that unless the organisation gets re-established, counter-insurgency operations will suffer.

"The decision to finish off TSD was political and not military. It was done to show (former COAS) General V.K. Singh in a bad light," a senior officer commented, while another claimed that "the TSD enabled our boys to get prior information on the movements of terror groups, so that these were caught before sneaking into India". He claimed that "despite the effort by the ISI to create a Kashmir Intifada by motivating youngsters to pelt stones at security forces, the situation was quickly brought under control." An officer claimed that the TSD was able to use technical means to operate deep within Pakistan and find out the trajectories of terror plots against targets in India. "At a cost of just Rs 20-30 crore annually, the Army was able to finally reach the actual sources of terror operations and not just tackle the symptoms," a former officer claimed.

The 26/11 Mumbai terror attack of 2008 showed the need for the army to go beyond its focus on the Line of Control and run sources deep inside Pakistan. In March 2009, a meeting took place to discuss this need, and then COAS General Deepak Kapoor asked Military Intelligence to work on a position paper, which was approved by Defence Minister A.K. Antony soon after its submission in October. The proposed TSD was to function under the Director-General of Military Intelligence, who would audit its funds and give operational directives. However, although the proposal had been cleared, it was not implemented until General V.K. Singh took over as COAS in April 2010. Among the tasks of the new unit were to keep a watch on separatists and other pro-Pakistan elements, as well as identify and record the groups and individuals seeking to destabilise the Kashmir valley. The getting of sources from within Pakistan was a high priority. The 2010 Intifada, which was countered less by standard police procedure than by an "information war" (Infowar) pointing out the harm the movement was doing to the physical and financial well-being of residents of the valley. A senior officer then in J&K admitted that "some NGOs which promoted peace and conciliation were funded by the TSD, but such expenditure was nothing compared to ISI cash pouring into the valley".

Among the examples of Infowar carried out by the TSD were the securing of numerous videos showing the maltreatment of locals in Pakistan Occupied Kashmir by Pakistan army personnel, and the humiliation that locals had to daily endure, besides their economic hardship. "We showed the valley that life was hell on the other side, and this hurt the pro-Pakistan groups who painted a rosy picture of the other side," an officer claimed. His colleague claimed that "at least three dozen terror plots against targets in India were discovered because of the TSD, and foiled". He added that the (26 September 2013) Samba attack "showed the problem created by removing the TSD 'eye' from the armoury of the army". He added that the attack showed that "military intelligence needed to operate not only just across the LoC but deep within Pakistan to be effective". He warned that the "peace group (now running policy) had taken away from the army the right to a robust response to provocations after first draining it of Infowar capability". Another claimed that "these days, only officers who are more adept in cultivating superiors rather than in fighting get ahead" and warned that this would "affect the success of war operations, where courage and improvisation are key to victory".

The officers claimed to have no knowledge of any TSD connection with an NGO that filed a complaint against the present COAS, General Bikram Singh, over the 2001 Janglath Mandi encounter, in which a 70-year-old local resident (who seems to have been indigent) has been identified by the army as a dangerous militant, who shot and killed the commanding officer of a unit as well as injuring then Lt Gen Bikram Singh. The NGO claimed that the alleged militant was only a bystander and that he was killed in the crossfire between two units of the army, one of which mistook the other to be terrorists. A source close to the present COAS says that Gen Bikram Singh "is a very bold officer and just because a man is 70 years old, does not mean he cannot be a threat". The military has consistently taken Gen Bikram Singh's side of the story, even while Gen V.K. Singh was COAS, and has refused to conduct any fresh investigations into the encounter that left both the alleged terrorist as well as an army officer dead and the present COAS injured.

About news reports that Gen V.K. Singh snooped on officials and politicians using off-air interceptors ordered by Military Intelligence, a source pointed out that only one of the interceptors was in army use, "and that on the LoC and not Delhi". He said that the other vehicles were in the possession of the NTRO. When then Defence Secretary (and now Comptroller and Auditor General) Sashikant Sharma ordered an inquiry into all such matters in July 2012, the Board of Officers concluded that there was no evidence of any wrongdoing. Interestingly, the role of the officer who actually ordered the purchase of the off-air interceptors has never been probed. This has, however, not prevented a spate of reports from coming out about the TSD, thereby obscuring its utility as a low-budget instrument both for collection of information about hostile elements and for the conduct of Infowar in sensitive theatres.

http://www.sunday-guardian.com/news/arm ... encounters

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 30 Sep 2013 05:50

Notice how ISI pouring money into valley is covered up and no one is talking of political interference in counterinsurgency operations.

Plus atrocities committed in puki occupied J&K is now covered up nicely. Whomsoever and who all wants to do this?

No evidence of wrongdoing- that should shut up misinformation campaign.

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 30 Sep 2013 19:42

Wow, speaks volumes for the readiness of the armored corps units plus and explains the footage of those T-72s rolling down the road...

err whsat footage?

link pls

TIA

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 01 Oct 2013 00:01

Surya wrote:
Wow, speaks volumes for the readiness of the armored corps units plus and explains the footage of those T-72s rolling down the road...
err whsat footage?

link pls

TIA

Don't know about any footage but there is a pic of a T-72 taken during the fight posted in the CT-COIN thread.

Here: viewtopic.php?p=1517195#p1517195

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 01 Oct 2013 00:24

Jammu attacks: The unanswered questions

By Sandhya Jain on September 30, 2013

There is consternation in the 16 Cavalry at Samba at the media projection that the officers and men who died in the terrorist attack in the early morning of September 26 were sitting ducks, when in reality they died heroically, putting up a protracted fight in the Officer’s Mess where the officers were having breakfast when the attack began. They rallied instantly and finally eliminated all three terrorists there.

The unit’s second in command Lt Col Bikramjit Singh and soldiers Kiran Kumar, Inder Singh and MS Rao died in this confrontation, while commanding officer Col Avin Uthaiya was hit on the chest and shoulder by two bullets (now stable in a military hospital). Had they not put up such staunch resistance, the families, including ladies and children, barely 100 yards away, who would have been the next target of the terror strike. A view is gaining ground that the intruders were trained commandos, as in Mumbai in 2008.

By all accounts, the encounter at Samba was fierce and lasted several hours. For the first time in a counter-insurgency operation inside the State, four helicopters were deployed to watch the movement of the terrorists and two tanks moved inside the Army camp.

Doubtless the Army court of inquiry will investigate the security lapses that allowed the intruders to gain easy access to the Officers’ Mess gate, which was manned only by sepoy Kiran Kumar. Weak perimetre defences are emerging as a feature of high security establishments in Jammu & Kashmir.

Bhim Singh, president emeritus of the Jammu-based Panthers Party, questions the claims of the State Government regarding the attack and points out that if the terrorists crossed the international border and drove to Hiranagar police station where they killed four policemen and two civilians, and then drove to Samba district an hour away and killed an officer and three soldiers in the Army camp, how were they not intercepted at any point along these routes? In all, 13 persons died in the twin incidents.

How could the administration and intelligence agencies in Hiranagar not become aware of the incident once firing began, and how was a truck with a driver stationed conveniently outside the police station to help the terrorists depart? There is a complicit silence regarding sleeper cells in the State, and the possible connection with Omar Abdullah’s illegal rehabilitation policy for supposedly surrendered terrorists from Pakistan-occupied Kashmir returning to the State via the Nepal border.

The terrorists located the Army camp with ease and entered carrying heavy weaponry, but could not be detected by any agency. Hence there is need to conclusively establish if the terrorists who attacked Hiranagar were the same as those who attacked the Samba Army Camp, or if a separate group sneaked in simultaneously to attack the Army camp to divert the attention of security forces from the Hiranagar attack.

As of now, the identity of the terrorists has not been disclosed to the public, and it is also not clear if there were more than three terrorists in the group of attackers. Some reports mentioned a fourth terrorist, but official sources are silent.

However, Roshan Lal, the driver of the auto-load carrier that was hijacked by the militants near Jhandi village along the border and forced to take them to Hiranagar, told the authorities that the Pakistani terrorists had asked him to take them to the Hiranagar prison (where some high-profile Pakistani prisoners are lodged), but by mistake he took them to the police station close by. Here they abandoned the carrier, shot a policeman on duty and three others inside the station (ASI Rattan Singh, selection grade constable Kuldeep Singh, constable Shiv Kumar, special police officer Mukesh Kumar), and PCO owner Suresh Kumar outside the station. They fired three bullets at Roshan Lal when he tried to escape, but he survived, and is currently at the GMC Hospital Jammu. ASI Ganga Ram and constable Rattan Chand were also injured in the firing.

The terrorists then hijacked a tempo truck (JK03-7810) which had been seized by the police the previous night and was parked inside the premises, killed its cleaner Muhammed Feroz (a resident of Kashmir), and proceeded to the army camp in Samba. The driver, Mohammad Ashraf Khan, is being questioned by the Special Operations Group (SOG). It is inexplicable that a major alert along the border was not sounded by the time they reached Samba, and this needs to be investigated and explained.

Given the growing number of attacks on military and paramilitary forces in Jammu & Kashmir, both the Centre and the State Government must examine the circumstances in which these attacks are taking place. Chief Minister Omar Abdullah must be made to keep his anti-armed forces rhetoric under control and stop demanding withdrawal of the Army from sensitive places including districts like Kathua which fall on the International Border with Pakistan.

A little-known outfit identifying itself as the Shuhada Brigade has since claimed responsibility for the attack. Its spokesperson, Sami-ul-Haq, told local newspapers that the identities of the fidayeen were Mohammad Akram, Furqanul Haq and Engineer Vikas, and all hailed from Jammu. There is, however, no official confirmation in this regard. The brutal attacks have created a fear psychosis in Jammu.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 01 Oct 2013 01:37

Received by email.

The most authentic account of events in 16 Cav lines - Brave Hearts of 16 CAV

Having just returned from the unit, filling in on the events on 26 Sep - Sep has truly been a 'BLACK SEP' this year, losing 4 x offrs and 3 men!:((.
After PT that morning, the unit did not break off but moved on for gun cleaning, as the guns needed to be ready for 'after fire insp'. The CO and 2 i/c had moved back, and were at home. That is when these militants struck. They had already attacked Hiranagar police stn and killed 4 JKP pers and killed 2 x civs. They had commandeered a truck and were coming towards Samba, they stopped 2 kms short and were coming on foot. The 16 CAV Mess complex is the first army camp that side. They shot the lone sentry, and entered the Mess from the rear. One staff qrs door was open - the shot the mess house keeper and threw a grenade inside for a good measure.

They ran into the Mess and did proper room clearing drill of throwing 1-2 grens and spraying auto fire - this they did in the dining hall and lounge. They found no one - all YOs at gun cleaning!!! Meanwhile the 2 i/c and another jawan raced towards the guardroom at the gate, to pick up some weapons. One of the militant who had come out saw the 2 1/c running and shot him with 2 x bursts. The jawan running behind was hit by the militant who ahd gone up to the 1st floor of the empty G/Room block(except for one house on the first floor where a young lady of the family was alone - Mukul's wife, and the militants did not know then).

The CO and the qrt had surrounded them and started engaging them. The two militants who were outside, ran to the G/Room block spraying bullets over their shoulders. That was when the CO was hit on his left elbow, shattering it. Meanwhile the unit had put a tight outer cordon and a tight net around the unit perimeter, and moved 5x tanks. Unmindful of injury the CO got into the 1st tank and tried to run down one militant who had come out. he dodged back into the bldg, and his comrade shot at the CO fro the first floor. The CO was hit on the chest - by then he had lost a lot of blood and was evacuated in the tk.

During this time, the militants on the first floor realised there was a lady trapped in the opposite house, but the brave girl had locked all the doors of the house and was int he bedroom facing the rear with a kitchen knife to kill the first SOB who came in. She was guided by Maj Balwan to push out the cooler and jump down - which she did.
Seeing this, our YO, Capt Arpan Bose angry at the injury caused by these SOBs and seeing Mrs Mukul was safe, shot off 2x HE rds into the bldg, wherein one mo-bike next to the staircase caught fire. That frightened the sods and they hid between the water tks on the roof of the servants qrs of this blosk - access from the first floor.

The qrts of 2 SIKH had come by then - how? One of their boys was att with us undergoing cmptr course and he rang up his unit. Henc the unit and the bde reached there swiftly.
In hind sight, they should have permitted our brave hearts to bring down the block with 2 - 3more HE rds and the sods would have been dead quickly. But fearing collateral damage the sr offrs would not permit our brave hearts to do this, and they then took more time and had to bring in 9 SF - an unnecessary delay.

An outstanding reaction and response by the unit prevented a greater conflagaration - as ack by all the Sr offrs up the chain of comd. Hope the 'GHOST OF AUG 12' is now off our shoulders.
--

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 01 Oct 2013 01:39

The fear psychosis is being abtated by irresponsible statements from Omar Badullo.

And IA should have spokesman who can clearly state what the issues are and give a correct picture. By not having desginated spokesmen IA is leaving the field open for all sorts of miscreants.

Chetak, Thanks, for the emailed accounts. Could you please have them avoid the use of militants and use terrorists.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 01 Oct 2013 03:25

Chetak, can these be shared elsewhere on email? 16 Cavs response needs to be disseminated. Way too many people are buying into the media spin.