Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan - Aug 21, 2013

arun · Post by **arun** » 02 Oct 2013 10:49

Was the conclusion of the Indian origin of weapons recovered, a la “Lungi Test”, because the weapon was not a halal sawn off shot gun nor was it one without a muzzle brake

Karachi operation: Rangers team seizes ‘Indian weapons’ from MQM office

Joseph · Post by **Joseph** » 02 Oct 2013 11:36

ramana,

Yes, I understand that Pakistan still wants to win Big over India, but they haven't accomplished it after decades of trying.

In the past and elsewhere on the internet, I went a few rounds with a Paki who wanted the U.S. to put much more pressure on India in regards to Kashmir. I pointed out to him that the U.S. has done quite a few things for Pakistan over the years and the Americans have very little influence over what Pakistan does while the U.S. has done very very little for India and the Americans could not be expected to have any influence over what India does. He gave no response and left the conversation.

The U.S. didn't flatten the PA headquarters in Rawalpindi for supporting the Taliban and hiding bin Laden, yet Pakistan expects the U.S. to do whatever it takes to get India to budge on Kashmir.

The Paki civilian leadership knows that terrorism will be brought up in conversations with India, yet they still ask for talks & meetings.

Pakistan continues with the same repetitive behavior that has accomplished very little in regards to their major goals such as Kashmir and humiliating India. They don't periodically reassess the situation and decide to try something different or decide that their goals are impossible to achieve.

arun · Post by **arun** » 02 Oct 2013 12:26

KLNMurthy wrote:
kish wrote:A report on "The World’s Worst Passports For Travel", As usual Al-Bakistan finds it-selves among fellow failed states. (needless to say top 6 are muslim majority nation)

Revealed: The World’s Worst Passports For Travel
SDRE saazish

Corrected URL: Revealed: The World’s Worst Passports For Travel

Undoubtedly a “Hanood saazish” given that the article was written by an individual named Aarti Nagraj which clearly suggests a Hindu female.

In any event that is not the only index that the Islamic Republic of Pakistan has plumbed the depths.

Pakistan among the worst countries to grow old in: UN

I wonder how much longer it will take the Islamic Republic of Pakistan to realise that its obsession with boxing well above its weight class in order to match India militarily comes at a huge and unaffordable cost to them.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 02 Oct 2013 13:43

As PM talked peace in NY, Paki's occupy village across LOC

Even as Prime Minister Manmohan Singh met with Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif in New York, Indian troops were engaged in a murderous fight to clear Pakistani troops who have occupied a ghost village alone the Line of Control, highly placed military sources have told Firstpost. This is the first time since the 2001-2002 near-war that Pakistani troops have held territory across the Line of Control, and comes as a ceasefire declared after that conflict unravels. Fighting, the sources said, is still taking place in the village of Shala Bhata, where Pakistani irregulars and special forces personnel are using abandoned homes to fire on troops attempting to clear the area.

Effort to take back still underway. So when did such an instance last happen and how did India tackle that..

Pakistani troops last occupied positions on the Indian side of the Line of Control in July, 2002, taking Loonda Post— part of the same sector where fighting is now underway. India responded, on that occasion, by using eight Mirage 2000 aircraft to drop precision-guided bombs on to the four occupied bunkers. Following the air strike, troops supported by 155-millimetre howitzers retook the positions. The daylight air assault, government sources told Firstpost, had been authorised at the highest political leavel, and were intended to demonstrate that India would not hesitate to escalate the conflict if provoked.

Let us see what our PM authorizes..i don't have much hope though.

arun · Post by **arun** » 02 Oct 2013 14:01

^^^ The occupation of Indian territory by the military of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan is reported as having taken place on the 23rd.

What on earth was the Nehru-Gandhi family led Congress party administration of Prime Minister Dr. Manmohan Singh thinking when he met the Pakistani's in New York?

arun · Post by **arun** » 02 Oct 2013 14:13

India Today quoting un-named IB sources confirms Praveen Swami’s story that the military of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan has occupied Indian territory:

Pakistan troops enter village in Kupwara, IB indicates at 'small-scale war'

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 02 Oct 2013 14:20

Arun you know when 2 half brained liberal Indian and Paki's meet abroad what they say.." All problems are caused by politicians, we people are the same". While the Paki knows he or she is lying through the teeth the Indian liberal buys that cliche hook, line and sinker. the eureka moment has arrived for that liberal Indian who goes out of the way to make the paki more comfortable saying that by even negating his religion mainstream culture and more. Well now that Liberal Indian had been made PM. His moment of Cognitive dissonance is arriving. He believes so deeply in the cliches which he has internalized deep within, that he cannot fathom that this is anything but an aberration and will order all resources under his command to play it down while he talks. We can't change neighbours right? We cant clap with one hand? A Stable Pakistan is good for India, right? We are the same people, right. The point to note is when you internalize deeply a stupid cliche as gospel, it may take decades to unravel. If one happens to rise up while having internalized those idiocies, one can cause grave damage to polity. That is why i earlier made a lit of cliches that have been internalized by a lot of our liberal elite. We need to bring them all out in the open and thrash them threadbare into oblivion. Need of the hour to identify these cliches and expose the damage they are causing.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 02 Oct 2013 15:07

I have an idea, why cant the eminent Journalists who have sweets in NY, producer caste and crew of 'WAR'-Chod NA Yaar and eminent Policans and Babus, Former babus walk to this village and ask the Paki troops to abandon the village. If it works we have given peace a chance? What say.

Meanwhile Army denies report of Pak army presence in Indian village

The Army on Wednesday said it foiled an infiltration bid by Pakistan-backed terrorists in the Keran sector on the line of control (LoC) last week and search operations were going on there.

""An infiltration bid was attempted last week by terrorists which was foiled by the Army. The search operations are still on," the Army headquarters said here.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 02 Oct 2013 18:03

@anupmisra, please check PM.
- Rahul.

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 02 Oct 2013 19:07

Army launches massive anti-infiltration operation in J&K, five jawans injured

SRINAGAR: The Army has launched a major anti- infiltration operation against militants and suspected Pakistan special troops holed up in an area in Keran sector along Line of Control in which five Indian soldiers have been injured.

"We are in total control of the operation which was launched on September 24. The reports of our posts being captured by the infiltrators are absurd," general officer commanding of the Army's 15 Corps Lt General Gurmit Singh told reporters here on Wednesday.

"From the operation that is going on till now and the strength (of infiltrators) and the multiple points they attempted (to infiltrate), give the indication that definitely there were some special troops. This is quite different from the trend we have seen in the earlier infiltration attempts," he said.

Five soldiers have been injured in the operation that entered the ninth day today, Lt Gen Singh said.

"All the injured soldiers have been hospitalized and are stable," he said.

Lt Gen Singh refused give details of the operation, saying it could compromise the effectiveness and strategy used by the Army against the infiltrators holed up in the area.

Lt Gen Singh said the operation was started on the basis of specific intelligence inputs about possible infiltration in Keran sector by militants from across the LoC.

Although the army commander maintained it will be premature to say whether the Pakistan Army was involved in the infiltration of militants, he said there were definite indications that some special troops were part of it.

Cheers

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 02 Oct 2013 21:34

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 415438.cms
18 members of Pakistani Hindu family convert to Islam

LAHORE: Eighteen members of a Hindu family in Khanpur area of Pakistan's central Punjab province have converted to Islam, local residents said on Wednesday.
Seven men and 11 women of the family adopted Islam during a ceremony conducted on Tuesday evening by Mian Ghaus Mohammad, custodian of the Khwaja Ghulam Fareed shrine at Jhok Farid.
They recited the Kalima Tayabba, the Islamic confession of faith, and converted to Islam, local residents were quoted as saying by state-run APP news agency. Samaram, the head of the family, chose Mohammad Sharif as his new name. Prominent people of the area were present on the occasion. There have been several reports of forcible conversion of members of the minority Hindu community in the southern Sindh province. Community leaders have also alleged that several women were abducted and forced into marriage with Muslim youths. Members of the Hindu community, especially traders and professionals like doctors, have been the target of kidnapping for ransom and extortion demands in the restive southwestern Balochistan province.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 02 Oct 2013 21:56

Exclusive: As PM talked peace, Pak grabbed ghost village on LoC

Praveen Swami

http://www.firstpost.com/india/exclusiv ... um=twitter

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 02 Oct 2013 22:33

the talk whilst attack game was exactly what the chinese did earlier this year. either this is coordinated or just inspired by. either way the PA is telling both GOI and GOP that they are in charge of the badlands

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 02 Oct 2013 23:09

If there has been an invasion of swine into a so-called "ghost village",then it is past time to turn the swine into real "ghosts" by bombing it from the air or levelling the village to the ground by heavy arty.,etc. A splendid opportunity for our chaps to indulge in some worthwhile target practice what? In fact every intrusion across the LOC should be joyously viewed as opportunities for indulging in the ancient art of pig-sticking. The slain pigs should be suitably displayed in public before dumping the carcasses into the Paki HC pigsty.

Let's see if the " Man" in MMS's name is truly man enough to "sport" with the ungodly swine. Otherwise we will have to goad the Yuvraj to making another display of petulance for the same.

member_22872 · Post by **member_22872** » 03 Oct 2013 00:04

Philip ji, already NS declared what he thought of MMS, NS thinks there is a 'man' alright in MMS, but with s prefix 'wo' too.

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 03 Oct 2013 03:38

If you follow the currents affairs talk shows on Shitistani TV channels in the last 2 weeks the comments from various so called experts and (anal)yst is:
Manmohan Singh is a weak PM and he has "nothing to give" to Pakistan. One participant clearly said Pakistan can get nothing from him

As has been correctly pointed out by a poster earlier Shitistani experts are desperately trying to project that RAW and Indian Army is not in the control of the Govt and is basically in the drivers seat in India!!!!! A couple of TV anchors were in the US and UK and admitted that they spoke in the House of Commons and with Senators and tried to bring to their attention India's role in Pakistan's problems and were

that nobody was willing to give it any importance.
They were basically trying to do all is well with their audience and claimed that there is no problem about World's perception of Pakistan it is just the Indian lobbying and effective campaigning in the western world that is creating problem for Pakistan.
Manmohan's comment about Pakistan being the epicenter of world Terrorism created fire under their collective tush and the pakistani anchor went to the absurd extent of saying that with its Naxalite Problem it is India and not pakistan which is the epicenter of terrorism.
Ejaz Haider on a program about the Jammu attack denied pakistani terrorists having done this.Instead he was was practically gloating that Indian authorities should note that Kashmiri separatists are no longer targeting civilians and have now become motivated and trained enough to attack hard Indian targets (Army and Police camps) and that this will only increase in the future.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 03 Oct 2013 03:50

Anujan wrote:There was an article from Sherry in Jinnah institute report. Apparently MMS failed to reciprocate NS efforts and it was a huge lost opportunity. No where is Lahore declaration mentioned (when India came closest to sustained engagement with Pakistan and they did a Kargil) or Agra summit (With Mushy's bluster) or just before Mumbai attacks. Pakis conveniently forget all these and tell "Why cant you sign a peace agreement when everything has been normal for the past few hours?"

Another narrative among "intellectuals" is that MMS is "weak" and cannot carry his armed forces and party with him, and is not a good partner to NS "bold moves". I find this laughable, Nawaz hasnt completed a term yet, last two times he was deposed, was cooling his heels in Saudi arabia for a full 9 years, and during Mushy's time even bundled and sent back when he attempted to return. Let him complete a term first and then we can see who is the stronger partner and who is the weaker partner.

I think MMS got his Kargil moment when TSP terrorists occupied the border village in Kupwara last week while the summit was going on.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 03 Oct 2013 03:51

pankajs wrote:Intelligence agencies warn of Taliban's brazen plans to carry out terror attacks in Pakistan
Pakistan intelligence agencies have warned the Sindh government that the banned Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) has prepared a massive terrorism plan. The Home Department, Sindh has been sent two separate secret reports by intelligence departments informing about the Pak Taliban’s brazen plans
butt .. butt why is napak intelligence confused .. TTP denies that it is involved in terrorism .. it is the RAW/CIA/Mosad wonlee

There is no need for secret reports when the TTP is very open in giving press statements about their intent.

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 03 Oct 2013 05:35

Bomb Kills 2 Pakistan Soldiers in Quake-Hit Region

Suspected separatists killed two Pakistani soldiers Wednesday, in a wave of attacks targeting troops doing relief work in a remote region of the country's southwest where a major earthquake killed at least 376 people last week, military officials said.

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 03 Oct 2013 05:38

$25 million in cash smuggled out of Pakistan daily, official says

The head of Pakistan's central bank has told legislators he believes $25 million in cash is being smuggled out through the country's airports every day, a senator said on Wednesday.

Senator Nasreen Jalil told Reuters that the central bank governor singled out smuggling as one reason the Pakistani rupee had been falling in foreign exchange trading.

Jalil said governor Yassen Anwar told a committee of parliament's upper house that he intended to try to stop the smuggling of large sums but that controls were weak. Jalil chairs the Senate Standing Committee on Finance.

Brad Goodman · Post by **Brad Goodman** » 03 Oct 2013 05:39

Pakistan: Prices of sacrificial animals rocket

Floods wiped out so much of Pakistan's livestock that families are struggling to afford animals to sacrifice, reports suggest.

Prices have rocketed by 30-50% ahead of the Eid festival, when Muslims sacrifice an animal to distribute meat to family, friends and the poor, according to the Associated Press of Pakistan. It quotes traders in Lahore's major Bakra Mandi as saying goats are going for a princely 30,000 rupees ($283; £174) and a cow for about twice that. Downhearted shoppers are worried that relatively few will be able to afford the sacrifice this year.

The floods affected more than a million people, notably in Punjab and Sindh provinces, where tens of thousands of families were forced out of their homes. Those areas are also major hubs for cattle production. And the destruction has resulted in a booming black market, according to Pakistan Today. Reports suggest that middlemen are deliberately holding onto livestock in order to drive prices up. Some they say are even selling animals to neighbouring Afghanistan. One way people are coping is through "collective sacrifices", whereby several people chip in to buy one animal that they offer up together, it seems.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 03 Oct 2013 05:54

Expect cattle smuggling to TSP enabled by UPA politicians as a CBM.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 03 Oct 2013 06:32

Rumours in the pig capital

Who is the Cutest Pig Of All

Lieutenant General Haaroon Asslam and Lieutenant General Rawshid Mahmood have been reported as almost the “final” candidates, that will fill the upcoming vacancies after the retirement of Chairman Joint Staff Committee General Khalid Sharmeen Wynne and Chief of Army Staff General Asshfaq Parvez Kayani respectively. Although it has not been confirmed officially, these two names remain in the air as the talks for the next CJSC and COAS commence in the capital. The announcement is to be made by Premier Nawaz Sharif upon returning from the United Nations General Assembly.Rumours and analyses emanating from journalists, military analysts and politicians remain abundant speculation, but the Premier has yet to declare a decision for either position. Considering how these two roles are the most influential card players in Pakistan’s domestic and foreign policy, it is an issue replete with dramatic turns and twists that yields – historically – unexpected changes.Statements issued by the Federal Information Minister are ambiguous at best. This newspaper was informed that the Premier will announce the changes upon his arrival which is due in the next few days. It was contradicted by the ministry when it expressed ignorance about any such development. This growing confusion involving the most coveted military slots in Pakistan carries risk for the security situation of the country for several reasons. With 2014 around the corner and an imminent American military withdrawal from Afghanistan, Pakistan cannot afford ambiguity in its stance about its highest military rankings. Furthermore, with growing hostility from extremists and relentless episodic attacks on citizens that have led to dozens of lives lost in the past two weeks alone, the government would instill stability by giving a clear statement in the upcoming days in relation to the new CJCSC and COAS. Hopefully the decision will be in line with the order of seniority, and any adventurism will be avoided.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 03 Oct 2013 06:39

http://tribune.com.pk/story/612463/sinful-crime/
Sinful crime

The sordid case, reported from Multan, where a cleric at a seminary has admitted to plotting to rape and then kill a three-year-old girl sent to him for Quranic lessons, brings back a host of ugly memories. There have been other cases reported in the past of sexual and physical abuse of children at seminaries. In the latest incident, the child was taken to a grave the cleric had ordered dug; he was spotted removing his clothes by a gravedigger, and then caught, tied naked to a pole and beaten as other people converged. The rescued victim is recovering in hospital and the cleric is in police custody.The lack of monitoring and control over madrassas has led to many children sent to them being criminally assaulted or badly mistreated. We need to ask if we can afford to put other children at such risk. Indeed, many cases of abuse at seminaries may not have come to light and recent focus on child rape following the abuse of a five-year-old in Lahore is one of the reasons other cases are coming forward. This will only be a temporary phenomenon. We need lasting solutions and better protection for children and indeed, all victims of rape.The case has also exposed a little more about our society. It has shown that piety is often nothing more than hypocrisy, with persons using their status in society to harm its most vulnerable members. People everywhere need to be made more aware of the risks. Status as a teacher, a holy man or a cleric should not bring trust and all persons who misuse their standing in this manner deserve to be punished, under the law and also socially, to deter others. The little girl in Multan was fortunate she was rescued. Others, of course, may not be quite so lucky, and the incident at the graveyard should teach us all a lesson about a society where evil comes in many different forms.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 03 Oct 2013 07:27

Manmohan Singh, Nawaz Sharif and the ‘dehati aurat’
http://tribune.com.pk/story/612454/manm ... ati-aurat/

The news that Pakistan’s Prime Minister, Nawaz Sharif, called his Indian counterpart a ‘dehati aurat’ (rustic woman) was sufficiently played up by media on both sides. Mian Nawaz Sharif denies using such language for Manmohan Singh. Indeed, the Indian journalist Barkha Dutt, who was part of the private meeting, denied hearing any derogatory remark about the Indian prime minister. Notwithstanding the fact that it is against journalistic norms to publicly report an off-the-record conversation, there is a possibility that Mian sahib might have used the term very privately to vent his frustration about the Indian premier discussing India-Pakistan relations with American President Barack Obama.Many people wondered what was most provocative — dehati or aurat? Given the Punjabi or general South Asian culture, the term dehati or villager seems to be an icing on the cake with the main intended insult being aurat. It’s almost everyday that one hears terms that tend to differentiate between a man and a woman. Bravery is equal to being a man, not a woman. Thus, being a woman is akin to being soft, cowardly, unable to take decisions, someone who engages in backbiting and endless gossip, and will eventually turn to a strong male shoulder when in trouble rather than decide something on her own.. I am sure what a woman does to protect her household is unbelievable. To top it all, a dehati aurat is a very suave specie, who knows exactly where her interests lie and how she will manoeuvre to protect herself and those close to her. Let’s also imagine for a minute that the term dehati aurat is a concept and not just a reference to a particular person.So, why does Mian Nawaz Sharif think that being a woman is derogatory because he did himself, what he is now implying a dehati aurat would do, many years ago? Surely, he still remembers how he rushed to the US to stop the Kargil conflict, a misadventure that even some senior commanders in the military admit was too risky and shouldn’t have been done. Could Pakistan have afforded to be more manly then and prolonged a fight that it simply couldn’t, especially with innocent soldiers stuck at the glacier without supplies?
In Pakistan’s security establishment’s estimation, Manmohan Singh should have been more manly and withstood immense pressure from the political opposition, the security hawks and India’s larger security community, which is now dominated by military thinking but not necessarily, the military as an organisation. The fact is that civil-military relations in all South Asian states have undergone a shift towards a more proactive military approach, which essentially reflects the growing militarism in all societies. The larger security establishment in India is averse to taking peace overtures by Nawaz Sharif, who is seen as a well-meaning leader on face value since the assumption is that he may not be in total control of security policymaking. Indeed, if the Sharif government has tasked the National Defence University to make the national security policy with minimal civilian intervention, then the GHQ has greater power than the political government.It might have helped if we had village women in charge of policymaking on both sides. At least, there would have been more caution than adventure. Speaking from a woman’s logic, it may seem difficult for someone to trust a situation where every peace initiative is doomed due to some military or semi-military adventure. The Lahore Declaration followed by Kargil and Musharraf’s peace overtures by Mumbai can throw anyone off-balance. This is not to suggest that the Indian government is very innocent but then, diplomacy is not an issue of innocence versus evil but how interests are gauged.
Our years of manliness haven’t taken us very far. At the UN, Nawaz Sharif spoke about the Kashmir issue being resolved according to UN resolutions. This position is different from what was proposed by former president and army chief Pervez Musharraf. Even earlier in 1998, the then Sharif government had agreed on a comprehensive dialogue rather than a Kashmir-first approach. Surely, this flip-flop has confused many. Forget about the Indians, it is very confusing to average Kashmiris as well, especially on the Indian side, who have experienced a gradual weakening of their own position versus New Delhi due to variations in Pakistani policies. The hanging of Afzal Guru is a reflection of the strengthening of the Indian security community’s perspective. The relative consolidation of the Indian state’s position versus the Kashmiri population has happened also because of a realisation regarding Islamabad’s general fickleness and inability to negotiate the issue on its own terms.Referring to Pervez Musharraf, he realised even after doing Kargil that direct military means was not an option. Of course, the other possibility is giving a free hand to non-state actors, which is something that would scare anyone into adopting a very cautious approach in bilateral relations. Twenty-Fourteen is a likely game changer for the entire region. This is a time when militants will gather more strength and legitimacy due to their involvement at multiple fronts. Even the Kashmiris are concerned that there may be an increase in violence on their side. A growing internal discontent will play into the hands of the jihadis.From a bilateral perspective, it is necessary for leaders to adopt a more cautious approach towards each other. Mian sahib may deny the state’s assistance to Hafiz Saeed and the likes but the ground reality scares others into caution.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 03 Oct 2013 10:47

Only In TSP

12 terrorists killed in Pakistan suicide attack

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 03 Oct 2013 11:02

Pratyush wrote:Only In TSP

12 terrorists killed in Pakistan suicide attack

Reminds me of this

r_subramanian · Post by **r_subramanian** » 03 Oct 2013 11:20

^
Re. the suicide bomber attack
According to The Tribune, "Mullah Nabi Hanfi was a commander of the Hangu chapter of the Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) before switching sides and joining the government’s counter-insurgency efforts."
So, it is just the case of more pure attacking the less pure.
link: http://tribune.com.pk/story/612912/15-k ... de-attack/

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 03 Oct 2013 12:33

Jhujar wrote:http://tribune.com.pk/story/612463/sinful-crime/
Sinful crime

The sordid case, reported from Multan, where a cleric at a seminary has admitted to plotting to rape and then kill a three-year-old girl sent to him for Quranic lessons, brings back a host of ugly memories. There have been other cases reported in the past of sexual and physical abuse of children at seminaries. In the latest incident, the child was taken to a grave the cleric had ordered dug; he was spotted removing his clothes by a gravedigger, and then caught, tied naked to a pole and beaten as other people converged. The rescued victim is recovering in hospital and the cleric is in police custody.The lack of monitoring and control over madrassas has led to many children sent to them being criminally assaulted or badly mistreated. We need to ask if we can afford to put other children at such risk. Indeed, many cases of abuse at seminaries may not have come to light and recent focus on child rape following the abuse of a five-year-old in Lahore is one of the reasons other cases are coming forward. This will only be a temporary phenomenon. We need lasting solutions and better protection for children and indeed, all victims of rape.The case has also exposed a little more about our society. It has shown that piety is often nothing more than hypocrisy, with persons using their status in society to harm its most vulnerable members. People everywhere need to be made more aware of the risks. Status as a teacher, a holy man or a cleric should not bring trust and all persons who misuse their standing in this manner deserve to be punished, under the law and also socially, to deter others. The little girl in Multan was fortunate she was rescued. Others, of course, may not be quite so lucky, and the incident at the graveyard should teach us all a lesson about a society where evil comes in many different forms.

Paki's know what likely to happen when they leave their boy to the mullahs care in a madrassa - only that they still want him to somehow grow up with "Islamic piety" all around and come back a man (even if his mind has been scarred for life).
The above story of a mullah lynched when he was caught trying to bury a boy alive reminded me again of below. Its from an old article in Boston Globe.

Sex between men is also commonplace in Pakistan's gender-segregated madrassas, or religious schools, where students and mullahs will go for months without setting eyes on a woman. Here, more than anywhere else in Pakistan, the situation resembles that found among prison inmates, where sex is mostly about availability and dominance rather than preference. In many cases, families take their sons to madrassas because they cannot afford to raise them themselves. A researcher with the AIDS Prevention Association of Pakistan (who asked that her name not be used) cited a saying such parents have for the teachers when they bring them their sons: "His flesh is yours, but his bones are ours."

Posting the article in full for archival purpose as original 2004 article has all but disappeared form Boston Globe site and has quotable quotes in it.

Open Secrets

Miranda Kennedy who is a journalist and a Contributing Editor of The Old Town Review. She reports frequently for National Public Radio(NPR) from across South Asia.

LAHORE -- The first time Aziz, a lean, dark-haired 20-year-old in this bustling cultural capital, had sex with a man, he was a pretty, illiterate boy of 16. A family friend took him to his house, put on a Pakistani-made soft-***** video, and raped him . Now, says Aziz (who gives only his first name), he is "addicted" to sex with men, so he hangs around Lahore's red-light districts, getting paid a few rupees for sex. At night, he goes home to his parents and prays to Allah to forgive him.

In the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, homosexuality is not only illegal, it is a crime punishable by whipping, imprisonment, or even death. But across all classes and social groups, men have sex with men. In villages throughout the country, young boys are often forcibly "taken" by older men, starting a cycle of abuse and revenge that social activists and observers say is the common pattern of homosexual sex in Pakistan. Often these boys move to the cities and become prostitutes. Most people know it happens -- from the police to the wives of the men involved.

In some areas, homosexual sex is even tacitly accepted -- though still officially illegal -- as long as it doesn't threaten traditional marriage. In the Northwest Frontier Province (NWFP), which shares many tribal and cultural links with neighboring Afghanistan, the ethnic Pashtun men who dominate the region are renowned for taking young boys as lovers. No one has been executed for sodomy in Pakistan's recent history, but across the border in Afghanistan, the Taliban (who are also overwhelmingly Pashtun) executed three men for sodomy in 1998 by bulldozing a brick wall over them, burying two of them alive. (The third survived, which meant, according to Taliban law, that he was innocent, so he was taken to a hospital for treatment.)

Among Pakistan's urban elite, there is a growing community of men who identify as gay, some of whom even come out to their friends. Men meet on Internet bulletin boards, or at private pool parties with lots of rented boys and heavy security. But they are a tiny, terrified minority, living in cities such as Lahore, Karachi, or Islamabad, where the cultural elite has carved out a niche for itself. In a country where alcohol is forbidden except to Christians, dancing is banned, and the Koran guides many aspects of criminal law, such men rarely step outside of their protected world. (Because women in Pakistan inhabit, for the most part, a strictly private realm, it is difficult to say with any certainty how common lesbian relationships may be.)

Homosexuals in Pakistan walk a fine line between harsh legal and cultural prohibition and some form of unspoken social acceptance. "Islamic tradition frowns on but acknowledges male-male sex, and this plays a role in permitting clandestine sex so long as it is not allowed to interfere with family life, which is of paramount importance," the San Francisco-based sociologist Stephen O. Murray writes in "Sociolegal Control of Homosexuality: A Multi-Nation Comparison," a collection of scholarly essays published in 1997. Further complicating matters, the most common form of male homosexuality in Pakistan, according to Murray, is pederasty, where an older man entices or coerces (sometimes forcibly) a younger boy into sex.

Among the many obstacles facing men who have sex with men in Pakistan is this close association, in the eyes of many Pakistanis, between homosexuality and exploitation. But they face their own psychological barriers as well. Of the dozens of men interviewed for this article, almost none who admitted to having homosexual sex identified themselves as "gay." (All would give only their first names, which could not be verified, or would speak only anonymously.) Most do not even believe that homosexuality should be legal.

Aziz says he now enjoys sex with other men, but he believes that's only because he isn't able to have sex with women, who are largely inaccessible -- even in red-light districts, where there are many more men than women for rent. And like most Pakistani men who have homosexual sex, Aziz believes it is wrong. "The Verses of the Koran do not allow it," he says. "That's the only thing that matters."
. . .
According to the Koran, when the prophet Lot saw that his people had been engaged in sodomy and debauchery, he said, "Come ye to men, instead of women, lustfully? Ye are indeed a people given to excess." When they refused to repent their sins, Allah destroyed them: "And we rained a rain upon them: and see what was the end of the wicked!"

The lines don't seem to leave much room for interpretation. But Faisal Alam, founder of the Al-Fatiha Foundation, a Washington-based organization for gay and lesbian Muslims, argues that Lot's people were killed not because they had homosexual sex, but because they were forcing sex on each other. That interpretation is unlikely to hold much weight with Pakistan's religious leaders. The matter is not open for debate here -- not among mullahs, academics, or even activists.

Like many Pakistani men who have sex with men, Aziz believes he is plagued by a "satan," or demon, that makes him desire men. Veteran human rights lawyer Hina Jilani, who lives in Lahore and specializes in women's rights cases, says the inconsistent application of Sharia (Islamic law) and Pakistani criminal law has blurred the line between abuse and gay sex, and the emphasis on Islamic values has imbued the very word "homosexuality" with a moral color.

"Here we have two totally different issues: exploited boys and sex workers versus consensual sex," Jilani says. "But the majority of people will think of them as the same. Even people like myself who do understand this issue haven't been able to take it up, except in the context of violence against people on basis of sex orientation."Jilani says there are innumerable cases of young boys -- some sex workers, some not -- charged under Pakistan's sodomy law, even if they have been enticed into sex.

Page 3 of 5 -- Jilani, who has defended dozens of children accused under the law, says they spend long years in jail awaiting trial; their families are stigmatized and often forced to disown them. In most parts of Pakistan, it's easier to lure a boy into sex than it is to catch a glimpse of a woman's legs. Sometimes it doesn't take more than the promise of a new cricket bat.

A 16-year-old who identifies himself only as Khurram knows all about that. Born in Dina, a small city in central Pakistan, his father died when he was young, and by the time he was 8 he was sent out to support his family. He says his employer sexually assaulted him, and he eventually realized that if he let it happen, he would make more money than he would serving chai. So he moved to the big city. Now he lives beside the bus stand in Rawalpindi, sleeping during the day and emerging at dusk to wait for work. For less than a dollar, he'll let a man have sex with him on a string bed behind a tobacco shop. "I don't like what I do," he says sorrowfully. "I am doing it so my sister can go to school."
. . .

There are no discernible red-light districts in the Northwest Frontier Province. In Peshawar, the provincial capital, women billow through the dusty streets in white "shuttlecock" burkas, named for the netted veil over the face. Many of the city's movie theaters have been shut down, and playing music in local buses is banned.

Ruled by an alliance of six Islamic parties who recently declared Sharia to be supreme over Pakistani national law, the NWFP is one of the most religiously conservative regions of Pakistan. This is the province that helped give rise to the Taliban, and where Al Qaeda leaders -- including Osama bin Laden -- continue to seek refuge, according to the Pakistani government.

Yet this is also the region of Pakistan where homosexuality is most tolerated -- however quietly. Among the Pashtun majority, having a young, attractive boyfriend is a symbol of prestige and wealth for affluent middle-aged men. Indeed, Pashtun men often keep a young boy in their hujra, the male room of the house that the wife rarely enters. The practice is so common that there are various slang terms for the boyfriends in different regional languages: larke (boy), warkai, alec.

According to many people interviewed in Peshawar, there's a strict code of behavior in these relationships. The boy is always the passive partner in sex and has often been coerced into the relationship; he is given food and clothes by his partner, and is in may cases forbidden to leave the relationship or marry. (In theory, the boys could marry when they're grown, but they are generally considered damaged, and end up wandering the streets as outcasts.)

Sayed Mudassir Shah, a human rights activist based in Peshawar, believes this goes on in part because of the extreme austerity of the traditional culture. Even after marriage, women are kept separate from men (except at night), and a strict interpretation of Islam discourages sports, music, and TV. Indeed, says Sayed, the practice is deeply embedded in the local culture. "It is so common to take boy lovers, that it is part of our Pashtun folklore," Sayed says. "One story tells of a wife crying to her husband that he has made her jealous, because he is spending so much time in the hujra with his boyfriend. This is folklore, but it is similar in life."

Sex between men is also commonplace in Pakistan's gender-segregated madrassas, or religious schools, where students and mullahs will go for months without setting eyes on a woman. Here, more than anywhere else in Pakistan, the situation resembles that found among prison inmates, where sex is mostly about availability and dominance rather than preference. In many cases, families take their sons to madrassas because they cannot afford to raise them themselves. A researcher with the AIDS Prevention Association of Pakistan (who asked that her name not be used) cited a saying such parents have for the teachers when they bring them their sons: "His flesh is yours, but his bones are ours."
. . .
A spirited, self-confident young man of 25 who lives in Islamabad, the nation's capital, and identifies himself only as Sajat, tells me that he first had sex with a man at a religious school in a central Pakistani village. But unlike most madrassa students and the boys in the red-light districts, Sajat's first sexual encounter with a man was by choice. Now a well-paid government servant in Islamabad, he hoots with laughter when he describes his preference for young, "hot-blooded, fighting soldier men," and happily recounts his regular trawls for boys through Islamabad's parks.

But Sajat's irreverent, openly gay self abruptly disappears when marriage comes up. He admits that he is engaged to a match of his parents' choosing, and will marry in the next two years. "Nature has made females for males, so after I get married, I will stop having sex with men," he intones, as though dutifully.

Indeed, gay men in Pakistan usually succumb to family pressure to marry, and those who are brave or rich enough to refuse to marry live under constant threat. Human rights workers say that the dearth of Pakistani gay-rights or community groups heightens the isolation and fear of those who identify -- and live -- as homosexuals. There are groups working against the spread of AIDS in Pakistan, but their work is often impeded by the cultural disapproval of homosexual sex. Continued...

Haji Muhammad Hanif, the general secretary of the AIDS Prevention Association of Pakistan, says that when he talks to male sex workers in the red-light districts of Lahore, he first asks them, "Do you know that gay sex is a heinous crime?" According to Pakistan's official figures, there were only some 2,000 cases of AIDS in Pakistan as of June 2003, but data collection is limited by social taboos. Estimates by the World Health Organization and UNAIDS put the 2002 figure at 78,000.

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 03 Oct 2013 13:03

ramana wrote: I think MMS got his Kargil moment when TSP terrorists occupied the border village in Kupwara last week while the summit was going on.

ramana Ji :

You couldn't have "thought" better!

Pak 'special troops' involved in massive infiltration bid, fierce gunfight on

Ironically, the skirmish was in full swing when PM Manmohan Singh met his Pakistani counterpart Nawaz Sharif in New York last Sunday to discuss measures to reduce tensions along the 778-km-long LoC. There has been a definite surge in infiltration attempts and militancy in J&K this year, along with as many as 150 ceasefire violations by Pakistan being recorded since January, 2013.

Despite the above and Nawaz referring to him as a "Dehati Aurut" MMS still went on with the "Nobel Prize ambition Meeting"

Cheers

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 03 Oct 2013 13:05

Pre-Friday preparations:

Car commits suicide 15 killed

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 03 Oct 2013 14:52

Another confirmation from Nadir Hassan :

The Pakistan-India stalemate

According to that account, Sharif compared the Indian PM to a village girl, apparently an offence so deep that it could have undermined, or even led to the cancellation, of the meeting. Never mind that other journalists present at the briefing denied that any such thing had been said or even that there is a difference between a metaphorical analogy and a direct like-to-like comparison, this could have been enough to destroy even the extremely modest gains the two leaders made just by talking to each other.

The Paki Media is “Gloating” over MMS seeing Badmaash despite such a derogatory remark!

Cheers

Rajagopal · Post by **Rajagopal** » 03 Oct 2013 15:56

Peregrine wrote:Another confirmation from Nadir Hassan :

The Pakistan-India stalemate

Let’s be clear about one thing: far too often in the past Pakistan has sent militants across the LoC to wreak havoc in Indian-administered Kashmir. We have trained and funded militants and then defended the end result at international forums as the justifiable uprising of locals. But now we have a bigger problem at home with militants who replicate the same strategy but target us. So, while it is possible we may be responsible for recent attacks across the LoC it is by no means certain.

Cheers

This is possibly the very first time a Pakistani Journalist has admitted to Pakistan being responsible for the border problems with the above statement. Mr. Nadir Hussan is looking to get "halal"ed by the ISI very soon.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 03 Oct 2013 16:30

Rajagopal wrote:This is possibly the very first time a Pakistani Journalist has admitted to Pakistan being responsible for the border problems with the above statement. Mr. Nadir Hussan is looking to get "halal"ed by the ISI very soon.

Not unless the naïve journalist gets to a western embassy first.

arun · Post by **arun** » 03 Oct 2013 19:46

arun wrote:
kish wrote:A report on "The World’s Worst Passports For Travel", As usual Al-Bakistan finds it-selves among fellow failed states. (needless to say top 6 are muslim majority nation)

Revealed: The World’s Worst Passports For Travel
Corrected URL: Revealed: The World’s Worst Passports For Travel

Undoubtedly a “Hanood saazish” given that the article was written by an individual named Aarti Nagraj which clearly suggests a Hindu female.

In any event that is not the only index that the Islamic Republic of Pakistan has plumbed the depths.

Pakistan among the worst countries to grow old in: UN

I wonder how much longer it will take the Islamic Republic of Pakistan to realise that its obsession with boxing well above its weight class in order to match India militarily comes at a huge and unaffordable cost to them.

After plumbing the depths of two index’s yesterday, the Islamic Republic of Pakistan plumbs the depth of one more index today, namely that of freedom of the net:

Pakistan bottom of the barrel on net freedom: Report

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 03 Oct 2013 21:44

Right now, A Paki joker ,Pirzada by name,says that the LOC is a line of "conflict",not control! So what else do we need to understand that to the Paki "wild boars",it is not a sacred boundary that needs to be respected. The excuse that is being trotted out is that Pak is so involved fighting terrorism in its north-west regions,that it simply cannot have the kind of troop strength and surveillance that India has on its side to repel intruders.Thus "freedom fighters" of J&K are the ones who are doing the fighting and that unless a solution to J&K is agreed upon (to Paki terms obviously!),don't expect the "freedom fighters" to go away.

However,there is one point on which one must agree upto a point with some of the Paki panellists,in that "What is the Indian Army doing in preventing these incursions?" Going by this statement,the Paki Pontius PIlate personalities have disassociated themselves from the "wild boar" intrusions. Therefore,the IA and the Indian military establishment have no other alternative but to execute "Operation Roast Pork" whenever such intrusions and attempts to squat on Indian territory occur.In this,one must draw the similarity between what China is doing in Ladakh,etc.and the recent Paki intrusions that aim to achieve the same objective ,a scinching of the border by degree.Both Pak and China have seen their never to be repeated opportunity of achieving mil. success during the tenure of India's most spineless leadership ever,where our beloved leader-in-charge is willing to surrender without a shot being fired,as we saw with his Baluchi. stand One shudder to think of what perfidy Pak would've indulged in had Gen.Zia (the snake)
been in charge.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 03 Oct 2013 21:52

Philp, There is a higher command failure that led to this fiasco. Some idiots might have wanted to give Badmash a win.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 03 Oct 2013 23:16

Pak: One of the worst countries to grow old in

I think with some more Purity and Peace flowing in, no one is going to grow old. Direct transition from Youth to Jannath..

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 04 Oct 2013 00:09

Peregrine wrote:
ramana wrote: I think MMS got his Kargil moment when TSP terrorists occupied the border village in Kupwara last week while the summit was going on.
ramana Ji :

You couldn't have "thought" better!

Pak 'special troops' involved in massive infiltration bid, fierce gunfight on

Ironically, the skirmish was in full swing when PM Manmohan Singh met his Pakistani counterpart Nawaz Sharif in New York last Sunday to discuss measures to reduce tensions along the 778-km-long LoC. There has been a definite surge in infiltration attempts and militancy in J&K this year, along with as many as 150 ceasefire violations by Pakistan being recorded since January, 2013.
Despite the above and Nawaz referring to him as a "Dehati Aurut" MMS still went on with the "Nobel Prize ambition Meeting"

Cheers

Peace dialogue should be uninterruptible. AoA.

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 04 Oct 2013 01:13

The faction of Paki RAPEs (like Taliban Khan) who want to start talking peace and brotherhood with TTP (en route to establishing a Shariah state) say that the church attack and other such attacks on civilians (Shi'a, etc.) could be carried out by India and other foreign kaffirs in order to prejudice Paki society against the Taliban. Therefore, Pakis must talk to the Taliban.

Does Pakistan Need Jihad Against Tehrik-e-Taliban?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vi0bSSsAuWc