Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 24 Oct 2013 17:59

1984 attacks on Sikhs by INC goons were worse than what happened in Gujarat in terms of : magnitude, number of people killed per area, extent, offical complacence (MHA slept, Army not called, Politicial leaders made inflamatory statements), polticial party invovlovement (Still roaming free), later prosecution of the perpetrators.
N Ram's tweet can be built up on using these facts.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 24 Oct 2013 18:16

^and the spread of violence to all kangress ruled states! stats should be brought up.

a_bharat · Post by **a_bharat** » 24 Oct 2013 18:29

vnmshyam wrote: The going is tough.. Here's a transcript of my chat with hima few minutes ago:

Friend: One thing is sure Shyam... no matter however good man Modi is, I won't vote for him nor do I ask others for it. you can blame on my expericences or me... thats decided at least for near future...
Me: Can I ask why?
Friend: easy answer to your question is, I want to be illogical and hold on to my decision..... so no reason can explain you why I have decided like that
Me: give me the difficult answer. I would really like to understand...
Friend: I don't want to... you will try to prove that my difficult reason is illogical or can be changed.... so I am mentioning that I WANT to be illogical(not thinking) and want to hold onto my decision

Rudradev wrote: I don't know what it is... I think it is something to do with the Indian impulse to be contrarian or argumentatitve.

RajeshA wrote: Some piskoanalysis from my side as well. Dedicating it to shiv saar!

I would give two reasons for the above behavior: Macaulayism and Gotravad.

I think the West and their Chamchas in India, the Macaulayite Sepoys, have been successful in doing INCEPTION, planting an idea deep within our psyches that Indians lack broad-mindedness, analytic, moderating and articulation skills and we would never be able to produce the literary richness and philosophical precision available in the West.

I think there is a simpler explanation -- MSM. I might have behaved like vnmshyam's friend 30 years ago when I was in 8th standard (I had been following politics since my school days). At that time, I used to take whatever that was written in newspapers, be it news, editorials as the truth. As I grew up, though I had become more critical, the impressions I had formed of VHP, Shiv Sena, RSS, BJP, etc. stayed long with me. When I learnt that a school friend of mine was associated with RSS, I thought: what a pity, a nice guy was becoming a bigot. My mind was closed to seeing the right wing in any way other than as bigots. I was depressed by the Mandal issue (not the fault of the right wing) and then LKA's rathyatra as they were both creating unnecessary internal conflicts in the country when the focus should have been on development and economy.

It took the prospect of a foreigner becoming the PM of India (I think it was 1998), that made me look for alternatives: I was thinking, I can accept any one -- even Lallu or Mullu, or even from BJP, but not a foreigner as the PM. Only since then, I was able to see positives in BJP (again, somewhat positive press ABV had when I was young probably helped a bit) and stopped looking at them as bigots (or perhaps I have become one too for the psecularists).

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 24 Oct 2013 18:33

This is MP Govt's response to Gujarat Govt's request for additional forces to quell the riots in Gujarat in 2002. It is signed.

Source

member_27873 · Post by **member_27873** » 24 Oct 2013 18:45

Tytler

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 24 Oct 2013 19:03

Cross-posting from deracination dhaga. follow ups will be answered there.
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Atri wrote:NaMo is bringing in a much needed "Evangelical streak" among Hindus.. I am glad.. this should translate into actual Hindu evangelism. Will be useful in the process of assimilation in future.. Those in their 20s, 30s and 40s should remember this streak and sharpen it.. mata is going to need it 2-3 decades from today.

Pranav wrote:It is a fragile phenomenon. One more round of EVM management and Hindus will go into a shell for the next 2 or 3 decades. I view it as Darwin's law, the unfit have no right to live.

Jhujar wrote: This time it is different, indians have tasted the Garroor to do anymore Ji Hazoor.
Even the Ex Faui are now itching to fix the PSecular Twitching .Moditva is not going away without having impact on present Non Governing system.

panduranghari wrote:Atri ji, Could you elaborate on this please?

I return to this dhaga with renewed vigor and diksha from Saraswati..

A legend tells us that having conquered Kalinga, a certain king which is referred to as Devaanaam Priya Raja Priyadarshi (Beloved of devas, king Priyadarshi), whom modern historians equate with Ashoka Maurya, grandson of emperor Chandragupta Maurya, looked at the field filled with remorse and proclaimed that he will henceforth conquer the world by the means of Dharma-vijaya and not shastra-vijaya. Dharmavijaya is beautiful Indian counter-word for western word "Evangelism". It does not have the baggage of evangelism, yet captures the zeal to spread and convert aptly. I will henceforth call Hindu-missionaries as "Dharmavijayee" people.

He then trained and sent Indian missionaries all over the world which spread Indian civilizational influence to distant lands. The wheel of Buddha's dharma started rotating throughout Asia. The real catalysts of this revolutionary spread of Hindu soft-power were traders, monks, roaming brahmins and Bhikshuks who were so convinced about their belief in superiority of "Dharma" that the original Vaidik zeal of Krinvanto Vishwam Aaryam received a shot in arm.

Various darshanas in India kept on competing with each other on ideological domain to capture the imagination and following of as many people as possible. This continuous churning which is characteristic of Hindu civilization gave rise to stalwart names like Nagarjuna, Dharmakirti, Ashwaghosha, Adi Shankara, Kalidasa, Ramanuja and many many others in all spheres of life from engineering to poetry, from warfare to philosophy and sciences. While Ashoka himself temporarily paralyzed himself and India due to overemphasis on Ahimsa in political domain, the subsequent Indian kings corrected this course time and again and maintained a fine balance between Shastra-vijaya (victory by arms) and Dharmavijaya (victory by soft-power). If we follow the trajectory of Sungas, Guptas, Pratiharas, Rashtrakutas, Cholas etc, a long spell of dharmavijaya followed after every short-spell of shastravijaya.

The agents of Dharma-vijaya, were able to function and convince others due one simple and fundamental fact - They were living as per "dharma", they were protected dharma and were in turn being protected by dharma, they were tasting the fruits of leading a dharmik lifestyle and thus were convinced (by comparing adhaarmik civilizations through the 4-pramana based tarkashastra) that following dharma will lead to the ultimate happiness of mankind. In fact, it is their ishwara-pradatta karma (godgiven duty) to spread dharma. Hence they even chose to call one of their most prominent and popular dharmashastras as "Maanav-dharmashastra" (The ethics for mankind).

The drive and the qualities described in above paragraph are essential in every civilization hoping to perform a dharma digvijaya. The invasioins of past thousand years have eroded this mentality among the Hindus. It is true that post independence, many dvaita-vedantin sects have been successfully propagating and "Evangelizing" their sampradaaya (ISKCON, for example), but this is in very limited context of a small-subset of total moksha-purushartha repertoir which in itself is a quarter of overall purushartha-ashrama based dharmik civilization. For dharmavijaya to show its effect, the thrust has to be on all four purusharthas and all four ashramas from all four Varnas of society. For this to show its effect, people have to have an example, a real experience of living in a dharmik system and leading a principled, prosperous and peaceful lives.

Strange things started happening in Indian society since Indira Gandhi imposed internal emergency in 1975, thus breaking a social-contract which Indians had with Indian National Congress. The civilization struck back, thus giving vital sanjeevani to a suppressed Dharmik revivalistic movement within the society which is now popularly referred to as Hindutva. Throughout the decade of 80s and 90s, this movement grew stronger, although it was severely diluted in my opinion by fixating it on a material object, that is Ramjanmabhumi temple of Ayodhya. The rise of Narendra Modi is against this backdrop.

The man belongs to an institution which in turn belongs to an ideology which invokes and tries to work by the very Rigvedic and Ashokan concepts of Krinvanto Vishwam Aaryam OR Dharmavijaya. It has the necessary discipline, pride and mechanisms to train the dharmavijaya agents. What Narendra Modi has done is given some tangible data and evidence to these agents to go out and spread the good news of Dharma among macaulayputras and Nehruvians and common people. Today we see various people arguing with other people who oppose Narendra Modi out of either ignorance about Indian civilization OR hatred towards Indian civilization - both instilled in the minds due to 6 decades of three-pronged Nehruvian education (which comprises of Nehruvian socialism, secularism and westernism). These dharmavijayi people argue and try to "convert" the Nehruvians and fence-sitters with similar missionary-like zeal. This sort of arguments stem from inherent pride which the dharmavijayins have in their civilization and way of life which is buttressed by actual workable material growth models which Modi has demonstrated.

It is not about Modi, the individual. It is about valuable data that he has provided to dharmavijayi people to go out and evangelize and convert people to lead their life under all-encompassing umbrella of Dharma (Hindutva is just a fashionable name of this fundamental Indian characteristic). The critics of this idea has expressed their reservations about this thesis, like Pranav ji has, by saying that this is only a temporary swell in the enthusiasm of Hindus which can be easily cauterized by engineering an electoral loss. Yes, in case there is electoral loss of BJP in loksabha elections, there will be some depression among dharmavijayee people. But this will not reflect in states of India which are becoming increasingly prosperous and demanding increasing autonomy to operate and make their own decisions. The very fact that the number of dharmavijayee people and their drive and zeal only went on increasing in past 6-7 years (that is in spite of electoral loss of 2009), is evidence this is not a superficial change in Hindu society.

The Mughal-British-Congress continuum of Delhi-based centralized governance on India with the coalition of small local regional satraps pandering to a small but united minorities, has induced India into a long comatose tamasik state. To shed this tamas and invoke the inherent Raajasik and Saatvik characteristics in Hindu prakriti, past decade has been instrumental. Now is the time to fan this dharmavijayee zeal among Dharmiks.

My fellow Dhaarmik brothers and sisters, it is our duty to make this world dharmik and aarya by removing the adharma and uncivility rampant. I urge you to not only try and convert the "other" Nehruvians and adharmiks within and outside the geographical confines of India, but also to study, learn, adapt to current times and resurrect all the dharmik models of all spheres of life - from spiritual to economic, from military to political, from sociological to family-related and from individual to entire world. The rest of the world is desperately searching for sustainable solutions to lead a principled, peaceful and prosperous life. They are searching for answers and my fellow dharmik brothers, you are sitting on that treasure trove. You only have to know yourself and spread this goodnews to rest of humanity.

That is your Dharma in his birth !!!!

Shubham astu..

muraliravi · Post by **muraliravi** » 24 Oct 2013 19:04

http://www.niticentral.com/2013/10/24/a ... 49828.html

"During Ram Mandir agitation, BJP had won all the four Lok Sabha seats from the Bundelkhand region. Ganga Charan Rajput in Hamirpur, Rajendra Agnohotri in Jhansi, Bhanu Verma in Jalaun and Prakash Narain in Banda were victorious. That time Kanlyan Singh was at the helm of affairs and was holding sway among backward caste.

The signs of revival are there for the BJP. The recently concluded Panchayat and corporation election in Bundelkhand region, the BJP has done well. It has won almost half a dozen Nagar Parishad and Jhansi corporation election. Thus, meaning that revival of the BJP in urban areas was complete. And in rural areas, the party has used traditional methods to invite people for Modi’s rally. “During door to door meetings, people were given rice stained in yellow colour as invitation as is done in this part during auspicious ceremonies, especially wedding rituals. This experiment has gone well,” said BJP spokesman Vijay Bahadur Pathak."

Is there is a website which provides results of all panchayat elections all over India.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 24 Oct 2013 19:35

Atri garu,

A tour de force!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 24 Oct 2013 19:40

sum wrote:Some more secular thoughts from uber-secular beings:
Modi’s rise is a challenge to democracy: Javed Akhtar

Lyricist and Rajya Sabha MP Javed Akhtar on Thursday said Narendra Modi can never be a good prime minister, alleging that the BJP’s PM aspirant was not only tainted of communal riots but was also “undemocratic”. “Besides, all talks of involvement in Gujarat riots of 2002 which are before the courts, this man (Modi) is not democratic,” Akhtar told reporters on the sidelines of a school function in Patna. Lyricist and Rajya Sabha MP Javed Akhtar.

“Amid chants of registering hat-trick in Gujarat one thing is glossed over – that he has given a damn to democracy in the state… His rise is a challenge to democracy,” Akhtar, Padma Bhusan awardee, poet and well known script writer of Bollywood said. Alleging that Modi treated ministers in Gujarat like ‘chaprasis’ (peons), Akhtar asked “How can he run the country with this mindset?”

Love it when Modi gets all these seculars to chant absolute BS

Sum the above article and statement/speech by Javed Akhtar is an example of appeal to false authority.

Javed Akhtar is making a politcal statment and he probably believes in it. And is entitled to it.

However the reporter keeps making references to Javed Akhtar being a lyricst, a Rajya Sabha Member(was he a nominated member? in which case he is not supposed to make polticial statements), his being a Padma Bhushan, Bollywood script writer etc

How are all those relevant to the political statement that Akhtar made? Isn't that an editorialising sin that Sleepy Sid was accused off in The Hindu?

Also Mrs Sonia Gnadhi has treated her own cabinet as worse than chaprasis! And her own son has undermined the Prime Minister when he was abroad meeting world leaders at the UN.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 24 Oct 2013 19:42

ramana wrote:1984 attacks on Sikhs by INC goons were worse than what happened in Gujarat in terms of : magnitude, number of people killed per area, extent, offical complacence (MHA slept, Army not called, Politicial leaders made inflamatory statements), polticial party invovlovement (Still roaming free), later prosecution of the perpetrators.
N Ram's tweet can be built up on using these facts.

There is a difference. During 1984 Pogrom , it was congress goons ( be it hindus ot mislims or any other castes) who were perpetrating it because one prime leader was assassinated. It was for the first time Sikhs were targeted by Congi goons, not by Hindus and will probably not happen again. Non Congi Indians were pained by it. While in Godhara, it was not BJP goons but Hindus who were retaliating. even Admin was alert and contained riot swiftly not actively took part in it unlike 1984 in Delhi. This type of riots have a long chain of history right before Independence and thousands of similar riots happened and continue even now.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 24 Oct 2013 19:42

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 24 Oct 2013 20:08

Atriji, Good post. In my view Narendra Modi is like Andrew Jackson 7th President of US.

He represents a fundamental shift in Indian political thnking from the London based regimes of internationalist controls.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 24 Oct 2013 20:14

kmkraoind, The book "Righteous Mind" describes how well thinking people become fundoos while seraching for the purity..

In the epics thread I noted that Lord Krishna's kinfolk who benefitted from his slaying of Kamsa still used to poke fingers at him until his death!!!!

M Joshi · Post by **M Joshi** » 24 Oct 2013 20:18

Nearly 3000 Sikhs were killed in the riots that followed Mrs Gandhi's assassination . Senior Congress leaders like Jagdish Tytler and Sajjan Kumar who are being tried for allegedly inciting mobs to attack Sikhs have not been penalized by the party.

Guess which news-site's article this boiler-plate is from?

Clicky

Winds of change maybe. Anyways, harsh words by Harsimrat Kaur Badal there in reply to amul baba's my dadi and papa were killed comments.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 24 Oct 2013 20:48

sum wrote:Some more secular thoughts from uber-secular beings:
Modi’s rise is a challenge to democracy: Javed Akhtar

Lyricist and Rajya Sabha MP Javed Akhtar on Thursday said Narendra Modi can never be a good prime minister, alleging that the BJP’s PM aspirant was not only tainted of communal riots but was also “undemocratic”. “Besides, all talks of involvement in Gujarat riots of 2002 which are before the courts, this man (Modi) is not democratic,” Akhtar told reporters on the sidelines of a school function in Patna. Lyricist and Rajya Sabha MP Javed Akhtar. Lyricist and Rajya Sabha MP Javed Akhtar.

“Amid chants of registering hat-trick in Gujarat one thing is glossed over – that he has given a damn to democracy in the state… His rise is a challenge to democracy,” Akhtar, Padma Bhusan awardee, poet and well known script writer of Bollywood said. Alleging that Modi treated ministers in Gujarat like ‘chaprasis’ (peons), Akhtar asked “How can he run the country with this mindset?”

Love it when Modi gets all these seculars to chant absolute BS

The pseudo secular lies are plain wrong from an educated writer. All his allegations are false. Being Padma Bhushan awardee the least he could do is not spread lies and indulge his ashraf self in misinformation campaigns.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 24 Oct 2013 21:49

> being padma bhushan awardee

perhaps that says it all. after 2009 such awards have been doled out liberally to the faithful. the rot started sometime earlier even with bharat ratnas....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bharat_Ratna

predictably every one from JLN down has got themselves one, with LBS being the diversity affirmative action candidate!

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 24 Oct 2013 21:55

Pseudo Secular Szunka Barzani is the harbinger of new Dawn. Before opening the Secular mouth , Akhtar Sahib have to go and experience Islamic Democracy floursihing in part of world special to his heart and mind.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 24 Oct 2013 22:03

ramana wrote:Atriji, Good post. In my view Narendra Modi is like Andrew Jackson 7th President of US.

He represents a fundamental shift in Indian political thnking from the London based regimes of internationalist controls.

But know that Andrew Jackson actually started the process in 1833 of slow descent of USA towards Civil war 20 years later.

America truly became independent from London based regimes of international controls after Lincoln won the civil war and stabilized the two coasts. The nullification crisis of 1833 was a major turning point in American history which is underrated.

India has much to learn from USA. USA, with all its current failures, is a model for India to relearn our ancient genius. The current faults of American policy has arisen because they signed the Atlantic charter in 1941 (OK, we grant it to them that it was essential to maintain the existence of Anglo-saxon cartel, which also forms the bedrock of American narrative). Churchill somehow managed to sell the English dream of global empire and "Pax Americana" to Roosevelt. Anyways, post 1941 USA has very little to teach India. But the American founding fathers and some great leaders of 19th and earlier 20th century has a lot to teach. By studying them, we can actually find some missing datapoints of how India would have been if we had continued on the pre-islamic trendline as if nothing happened.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 24 Oct 2013 22:04

Intersting that SCB's posthumus award had to be withdrawn because the committee could not prove conclusively he died. Do they still believe that he is still alive? Baby giri at its best this.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 24 Oct 2013 22:07

Imagine a caste muslim of high caste saying that about NaMo, an RSS fellow!

Where have leftist anti caste warriors or even that is selective for pretenders.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 24 Oct 2013 22:07

Kamal Farooqi on Timesnow just said that Modi is communal because he did not say one word on Muzzafarnagar and has not expressed any regret on the riots in UP! Imagine being in SP and having been the architect of the riots, killings, communal cover up he expects NM to express regret!

kish · Post by **kish** » 24 Oct 2013 22:52

Unbelievable, is this for real?? Does one practice crying to get votes. Anyway posting it for posterity, it could be taken down.

Live! Rahul rehearsed 'I may also be killed' speech before Priyanka, Sonia

Congress vice-president Rahul Gandhi's emotional speech in Rajasthan yesterday saying he may also be killed like his father and grandmother before him, has not gone down well with the party, say sources in Delhi.

A Union Minister spoke to a few general secretaries of the AICC and realised that Rahul had rehearsed his speech before Priyanka and Sonia Gandhi before it had been okayed. No inputs were given by any senior Congress leaders.

Congressmen cracked jokes that the mother-son-daughter triumvirate were in fact the real core committee members of the Congress

The 'family draft' will not work, believe Congress party seniors and they want him to share his speech ideas with friends of the late Rajiv Gandhi and Indira Gandhi who are still around at 24 Akbar Road.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 24 Oct 2013 23:03

This killing thing is strange. Jihaadis are targeting NaMo - leader of opposition and PM to be, while shehzada is crying of danger on TV when con race is in control of UPA government for a decade.

His crying all over just shows lack of security is all.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 24 Oct 2013 23:12

Atri wrote: America truly became independent from London based regimes of international controls after Lincoln won the civil war and stabilized the two coasts. The nullification crisis of 1833 was a major turning point in American history which is underrated.

The independence in fact started getting eroded post the civil war and was ended by 1913.

The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the large centers has owned the government of the U.S. since the days of Andrew Jackson.

President Franklin D. Roosevelt, in a letter written to Colonel E. Mandell House (handler of President Wilson) (link)

These matters have been covered in this thread.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 24 Oct 2013 23:15

Rahul's Crocodile tears might confirms to Septic Dienastic family tradition.Pappu has laid down the framework for getting sympathy votes like his Papa . There are forces within congress beyond the control of Local body and they can, will or do make use of this without even him knowing who moved the chess piece.He should no open his mouth when the foot is still stuck on his Talwa. This might develop out as Sanjay Gandhi and Indira Gandhi Maa- Puttar struggle scenario where one have to go for other to rule. Either Pappu being set up or Mother as the forces above them are ruthless and xpert in creating deadly Accidents.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 24 Oct 2013 23:22

Rahul's whines are like the script from "Rajneeti" where Katrina Kaif makes similar whines about how the bad opposition politicians are!

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 24 Oct 2013 23:33

Informal polling again, so take the anecdote FWIW. Rahul's recent utterances seem to be harming him. Even some people who were earlier protesting that "Rahul should be given a chance, he is so young" are now saying "what an idiot/spoilt-brat" etc.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 24 Oct 2013 23:37

replying in OT thread regarding Andrew Jackson.

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 24 Oct 2013 23:42

Rahul apni audience ko dat ta hai. He is shouting at his audience in a typical perplexed moronic mode. His hand gestures are too fast and erratic. Nerves. He is clearly a disturbed person. Possible that he has not recovered from the death of his dad and his grandmother. His playing Baddy with the Killers and telling they asked inside info off him may have some really deep secrets he has been keeping within..of betrayal. He clearly feels the need to blame someone for what happened. His shouting and utterances are manifestations of cognitive dissonance. He shakes hands with the real Killers while blaming the wrong person/ BJP Dharmics. BJP/ spokesmen-women for it should take be mild in response and say gently he needs psychatric help. IMHO he needs it.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 24 Oct 2013 23:45

devesh wrote:replying in OT thread regarding Andrew Jackson.

reply in deracination thread..

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 24 Oct 2013 23:52

Atri wrote:
devesh wrote:replying in OT thread regarding Andrew Jackson.
reply in deracination thread..

ok, will crosspost it there.

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 25 Oct 2013 00:54

swami ramdev ‏@yogrishiramdev 1h
#Pappu in Speech: Meri Maa,Meri Daadi, Mere Papa. @narendramodi in speech: Mera Gujrat,Mera Desh,Mera Bharat. That's the Diference in vision

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 25 Oct 2013 01:06

ramana wrote:Rahul's whines are like the script from "Rajneeti" where Katrina Kaif makes similar whines about how the bad opposition politicians are!

But her acting was much better than Rahul.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 25 Oct 2013 01:12

sum wrote:Some more secular thoughts from uber-secular beings:
Modi’s rise is a challenge to democracy: Javed Akhtar

Lyricist and Rajya Sabha MP Javed Akhtar on Thursday said Narendra Modi can never be a good prime minister, alleging that the BJP’s PM aspirant was not only tainted of communal riots but was also “undemocratic”. “Besides, all talks of involvement in Gujarat riots of 2002 which are before the courts, this man (Modi) is not democratic,” Akhtar told reporters on the sidelines of a school function in Patna. Lyricist and Rajya Sabha MP Javed Akhtar. Lyricist and Rajya Sabha MP Javed Akhtar.

“Amid chants of registering hat-trick in Gujarat one thing is glossed over – that he has given a damn to democracy in the state… His rise is a challenge to democracy,” Akhtar, Padma Bhusan awardee, poet and well known script writer of Bollywood said. Alleging that Modi treated ministers in Gujarat like ‘chaprasis’ (peons), Akhtar asked “How can he run the country with this mindset?”

Love it when Modi gets all these seculars to chant absolute BS

Implication is that treating someone like chaprassi equals ill-treating that person. This is the mark of feudal mindset. Both minister and chaprassi should be treated the same way: with respect and professional courtesy.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 25 Oct 2013 01:13

Jhujar wrote:Rahul's Crocodile tears might confirms to Septic Dienastic family tradition.Pappu has laid down the framework for getting sympathy votes like his Papa . There are forces within congress beyond the control of Local body and they can, will or do make use of this without even him knowing who moved the chess piece.He should no open his mouth when the foot is still stuck on his Talwa. This might develop out as Sanjay Gandhi and Indira Gandhi Maa- Puttar struggle scenario where one have to go for other to rule. Either Pappu being set up or Mother as the forces above them are ruthless and xpert in creating deadly Accidents.

One is reminded of Solozzo trying to off don Vito when Sunny opens his mouth at the wrong time during negotiations for territories.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 25 Oct 2013 01:27

vishvak wrote:Imagine a caste muslim of high caste saying that about NaMo, an RSS fellow!

Where have leftist anti caste warriors or even that is selective for pretenders.

For 60 odd years several groups of certain minorities in this country have been fed stories about their victimhood, also been granted total immunity from any sort of introspection about their own communities behaviour in years past. As a result, they have a huge sense of entitlement and also are always into aggressive, we are the victims now we will take matters into our own hands sort of rubbish. In turn they overreact to perceived slights to their honor etc, and violence breaks out, and the cycle repeats.

Similar is the case with other targeted castes/groups within the majority.

On the other hand, educated upper castes in the majority have been cowed into submission at an intellectual level, and been told that they single handedly suppressed everyone else and must now be good, turn the other cheek sort of folks. So they refuse to fix things. Instead, they run around trying to prove to everyone how nice they are, how liberal they are et al

In the meanwhile, actual discrimination, bigotry, fratricidal conflicts have all been encouraged because it allows us versus them behaviour to persist making specific groups look upon the INC as their mai-baap.

All this sort of stuff has allowed a huge middle-man/broker group to emerge as the representatives of all these aforesaid groups, who enjoy the patronage of the INC and are hence "their masters voice". In return, they receive fame, fiscal benefits via access to all sorts of nice opportunities etc.

Whether majority or minority, these folks exist to shape opinions within their respective groups and curry influence for the INC.

If everyone was on the same level - H/M/C/S etc urban or rural- the privileged position of these people would disappear.

People like Javed Akhtar would have no place in a real egalitarian India, where the likes of Modi rule and everyone advances on merit alone. An Akhtar would no longer be the fashionable, english speaking, urbane "moderate" muslim so beloved of talk shows etc with he & his wife making money hand over foot and yet claiming discrimination.

Modi is feared by all these guys - the NAC types, Akhtar types because with Modi, they will become irrelevant.
Modi does not need them to "talk" to the average Muslim or represent Muslims to him.

Hence the fear. Plus, in a Modi type of country, there is always the chance that the artificial constraint imposed on the majority in terms of behaviour, thought-police may disappear. In which case again, the likes of Akhtar are irrelevant. They are used to working in an environment of entitlement.

Plus in a country with an effective defence, both external (Pakistan) and internal (Ind Muj) type of threats would be effectively tackled. The need for such showpiece characters to state all is well, would also disappear.

In short, Modi type of folks will raise all boats. Privileges, feudal entitlements, the pride in misplaced things (ah, inheritors of Mughal empire etc, expressed by several of these fashionable types in dinner party gossip wherein they hold their lineage as a mark of pride) all count for nought.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 25 Oct 2013 01:42

Jhujar wrote:Rahul's Crocodile tears might confirms to Septic Dienastic family tradition.Pappu has laid down the framework for getting sympathy votes like his Papa . There are forces within congress beyond the control of Local body and they can, will or do make use of this without even him knowing who moved the chess piece.He should no open his mouth when the foot is still stuck on his Talwa. This might develop out as Sanjay Gandhi and Indira Gandhi Maa- Puttar struggle scenario where one have to go for other to rule. Either Pappu being set up or Mother as the forces above them are ruthless and xpert in creating deadly Accidents.

Bilkul satya vachan. Folks dont know the forces that let the 2Gs think they rule.
These are there in ganga-jamini culture since the ancient times. If they are too clever and over reach the region goes dormant for centuries and then suddenly it remerges.

Sushupti · Post by **Sushupti** » 25 Oct 2013 02:51

How bluntly he tells to participants about flaunting environmental norms.

Wow! Around 23:00 he says (In the context of Indian bills being printed with imported ink) within 4-5 months all the indecisiveness/wrong decision will be gone. First time he has openly expressed himself about being sure of taking PM chair.

Atri · Post by **Atri** » 25 Oct 2013 03:15

he said it quite a few times.. I heard it for the first time in Mumbai that diamond merchant speech..

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 25 Oct 2013 03:32

@Karan M ^^^: "For 60 odd years several groups of certain minorities in this country have been fed stories about their victimhood, also been granted total immunity from any sort of introspection about their own communities behaviour in years past. As a result, they have a huge sense of entitlement and also are always into aggressive, we are the victims now we will take matters into our own hands sort of rubbish. In turn they overreact to perceived slights to their honor etc, and violence breaks out, and the cycle repeats."

Not just in India. Globally. It's always" Some winged entity dictated an entire book a guy wandering around the desert in the 7th century with the central premise of 'what's yours (whole world) is yours and the rest is to be taken by force." " And, if you don't get what you want, you must scream injustice and fight to the bitter end."

Funnily, I happen to run across this piece in Al-Guardian by one Haroon Siddique:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/o ... an-suu-kyi

Even Suu-Kyi a pacifist Buddhist balances the ground reality.

Maybe what we need is muscular Buddhism. What an irony.