Narendra Modi vs the Dynasty: Contrasting Ideas of India

[Shanmukh]

If you are referring to reserved constituencies for SCs & STs, any SC & ST individual from across the country can contest as a candidate in any LS constituency. No? I know for sure that RS used to have residency reqmts but these were removed.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Any SC/STs can contest from any SC/ST constituency respectively, anywhere in India. Last time, we had Qamar Rabbani Chechi, a Kashmiri Muslim ST contesting from Dausa in Rajasthan against Dr. Kirori Lal Meena.

[Sri]

I think Anyone can contest from anywhere. If I remember correctly few people have filled papers for as much as 50 constituencies. Of course SC / ST etc rules apply but no domicile is needed...

[bhargava]

UPA’s misery: CBI case against NDA in the Barak missile deal falls flat

House is being cleaned up for the new occupant

[Hari Seldon]

^^^ I want NaMo to promise to release *all* 2011 census data to public scrutiny - let the country knopw just how many BeeDees we now have in our midst and what are the %ges in different parts of the country. Also cleanup required on aadhar as its been given to noncitizens under UPA.

[johneeG]

ramana garu, No problem. just trying to inject some humor.

-----

Atri: Thanks. Looks like my deracination is complete

OTOH, there is this alternate interpretation of "bhArata bhAgya vidhAta" which I remember from my childhood. But Gurudev's repudiation of that interpretation is not well-known (or atleast not known to me till now when I looked at Wikipedia).

Wikipedia

Controversy shadowed Jana Gana Mana from the day of its first rendition in 1911 at the Congress session in Calcutta. King George V was scheduled to arrive in the city on 30 December and a section of the Anglo-Indian English press in Calcutta thought – and duly reported – that Tagore's anthem was a homage to the emperor.[13]

The poet claims in a letter written in 1939: "I should only insult myself if I cared to answer those who consider me capable of such unbounded stupidity."[13] In another letter to Pulin Behari Sen, Tagore later wrote, "A certain high official in His Majesty's service, who was also my friend, had requested that I write a song of felicitation towards the Emperor. The request simply amazed me. It caused a great stir in my heart. In response to that great mental turmoil, I pronounced the victory in Jana Gana Mana of that Bhagya Vidhata [ed. God of Destiny] of India who has from age after age held steadfast the reins of India's chariot through rise and fall, through the straight path and the curved. That Lord of Destiny, that Reader of the Collective Mind of India, that Perennial Guide, could never be George V, George VI, or any other George. Even my official friend understood this about the song. After all, even if his admiration for the crown was excessive, he was not lacking in simple common sense."[14]

thanks matrimc.

Somehow the 'rightwing' is more prone to the negative stories about Tagore as it feeds into the generic 'oh! if only all those leaders had not sold out...'. I had not thought of looking at wikipedia but thanks to the unkown guy who has clarified this. Will look up the original reference as well.

Saar,
Tagore's explanation seems unconvincing to me... too little too late(in completely changed situations). The song was written in 1911 and Tagore 'refuted' in some letter to someone in 1939?!! Thats totally inadequate.

Given the situation and the lyrics of the song, it is reasonable to conclude that the song was written in honor of George V.

'Western Education' for India was recommended and adopted by a committee comprising of Alexander Duff and Macualay. Missionaries were expecting the Indians to convert enmasse in next 20-30 yrs due to this education. - 1835

Bankim Chandra Chattopadhyay starts his literary career. He wrote in Eng and Bengali. He was one of the sole english-educated nationalist voices while most other english educated ones were already half-converted or ready to convert to X-ism. 'Western Education' introduced by Macualay 30 yrs ago was successfully alienating the Hindus from their culture which was portrayed as a mass of superstitions. Missionaries were having a field day. - 1865

Anandamath(novel) of Bankim. The novel was the source of 'Vande Matram' - 1882

Vandhe Maathram was adopted as the warcry by all independent strugglers. So, brits had to neutralize Bankim's influence.

Tagore released his manasi poems - 1890
Bankim Chandra Chattopadhyay died - 1894
First Nobel Prizes given - 1901
Tagore found an ashram at Shantiniketan. He started becoming popular.(Now that Bankim was no longer there) - 1901

Brits tried to divide Bengal and there was severe resistance to it in 1905. Kongis split in 1907 and then, severe crackdown on the nationalists by the brits to allow the brit lackeys to remain unchallenged. Tilak was sentenced to Jail and Lala Lajpat Rai went to US to avoid arrest. Aurobindo Ghosh was arrested and released only after he had become spiritual. Violent revolutions were spawning against the brits. The patriotic fervour had reached its crescendo. There was urgent need for the brits to neutralize this. Gokhale was nearing his end and about to retire. His replacement had to be found. The unrest in Bengal was severe enough for the brits to change their capital from Calcutta(Kolkatta) to New Dilli. So, the unrest in Bengal had to be quelled for the brits.

Bengal was reunited - 1911
Veer Savarkar sentenced to 50 yrs imprisonment in Kaala Paani(Cellular Jail) for justifying the action of Madanlal Dhingra - 1911
Tagore wrote Jana Gana Mana. It was sung on the occasion when George V was supposed to visit India. - 1911


It was reported at that time that Tagore's song was in honour of George V. There is nothing to show that he refuted it at that time. By his silence, it was understood that the song was in honour of George V.

Gokhale visits South Africa to mentor Gandhi - 1912
Harappan seals were found - 1912
Tagore went to England to parade his work there. He caught the eye of a Gandhi protege(missionary) and other literary figures. Then he went to US. Tagore was appreciated by Swedish Academy. - 1912


It was one of the friends of Gandhi who was instrumental in making Tagore popular abroad.

Please note that Jinnah, Gandhi and Tagore all came on the screen almost at the same time. Jinnah and Gandhi even shared the same mentor: Gokhale. Gokhale also mentored the person who founded the Muslim League. Gokhale was opposed to Tilak all his life. Tilak and Gokhale represented two poles. Tilak was arrested and sent to Mandalay while Gokhale trained Gandhi, Jinnah and others.

Tagore was given a Nobel Prize in Literature - 1913
Gadar Party formed - 1913
Wakf validation act was passed. It was introduced by Jinnah in Imperial Legislative Council - 1913
Jinnah joined Muslim League even though he was already a member of Congress - 1913

These phoren awards... should one really think that they are given only for excellence without any motive? Please understand that Tagore was not in favour of the independence movement. He criticized the revolutionaries and others. He seemed to believe that brit rule was the best that Bhaarath could hope for.

Note that Jinnah was simultaneously the member of Muslim League and Congress.

South Africa brit govt accepts the 'demands' of Gandhi because of the recommendations by the Indian brit administration - 1914
Gandhi hailed by media in US, India and UK - 1914
Gandhi went to England and Gokhale was also in Europe for medical treatment - 1914

Gokhale Died - 1915
Gandhi returned to India and was declared a 'Mahathma' immediately on his arrival. He was being built up as a second Jesus. American Papers were also building him up - 1915
Tagore was granted a Knighthood by the brits. These various phoren awards made Tagore immensely popular. - 1915


Jallianwala Bagh massacre and subsequent outrage among Indians against brits - Apr 1919
Ottoman Empire(Turkey) was sought to be divided by the brits after WWI - 1919
Khilafat Movement started under leadership of Gandhi. Gandhi's position was weak. So, he tried to acquire the support of muslims. - 1919
Ramachandra Baba led Peasant Protest in UP(Awadh) - 1919
Ramachandra Baba was arrested and jailed for 2 yrs. Motilal started another Kisan Sabha. Kongis were happy with the removal of Ramachandra Baba - 1919
Lala Lajpat Rai returned to India from US - 1919
Tagore renounced his brit Knighthood - 1919

Note when Tagore renounced his brit knighthood. He was given the Knighthood in 1915. He renounced it in 1919 when the mood in Bhaarath was completely against the brits.

Tagore went on a world tour - 1924

Tagore had been raised on a pedestal. Tagore disliked Nationalism(i.e. independence movement and any overt Hinduism) and hence was a darling of brits, naram-dal and crpto-jihadis. They tried to praise him into some kind of a 'seer'. - 1930

From 1935 onwards, there were massive changes in the world. Rise of Fascists in Italy, spanish civil war, japanese invasion of china, rise of Nazis, ...etc. In Bhaarath, Bose became very popular and exceeded the popularity of even Gandhi. Germany and USSR signed a non-aggression pact in 1939 and the German war against the Brits was imminent. Various brit lackeys were hedging their bets. It was at this time that Tagore supposedly wrote some letter to someone. This is too little and too late to be taken seriously.

Even Gandhi had written once that brits should not fight the Nazis but simply surrender to them and try the 'non-violent' methods. Do you really think that Gandhi did not know what he was saying? He was also hedging his bets.

Link

[Prasad]

I wonder if NaMo would come out and talk about the SC verdict today and express solidarity with the lgbt community. That would set the cat amongst the pigeons. And would be fun to watch all the idiots who shout "bharathiya sanskriti onlee" react to it.

[sum]

^^ Fess up, which of you guys did this in Firstpost comments section:

This is Prof. Madan Meena Lucknow UP. On the behalf of the entire
academic community, I would like to say that Delhi people have done a
very irresponsible voting this time. The first point is, if they were
not happy with Sheila-ji, there is no way that they will be happy with
BJP or AAP government. Sheila-ji has been rated as one of the best
politicians in the world. Look at her partial list of achievements.

- Infrastructure development (Delhi has the best infrastructure in the entire India). Several flyovers and expressways

- T3 terminal, rated one of the best in the world

- Swanky and glittering ever expanding Delhi Metro

- Effectively managed the largest migration in the world. Everyday,
10000 new people come to Delhi in search of employment from all over
India and neighboring countries. Everyone is assured ROTI, KAPDA,
MAKKAN, and JOB.

Fine, if they wanted to give a chance to BJP or AAP, they should have
given clean majority to one of them. AAP is a hollow party. They think
that lokpal will solve everything. It is NONSENSE! They are good at
talking, but poor at delivering. They essentially played with the
emotions of people and got so many seats. I would suggest that let them
run Delhi for 2 years. People will realize how useless they are. I am
extremely disappointed with Delhi people. I concur with Nikhil Wagle-ji
that Indian middle class is a blot. I agree with Justice Katju that 90%
of Indians are fools. As a teaching faculty, I accept the responsibility
of academic community because we have failed to educate this middle
class.

[chaanakya]

Just back from Bihar Patna.

Few observations.

As a Capital of Large State, it now sucks. Infra development has taken a hit. Road conditions are poor. Not keeping pace with the heavy traffic. Somewhere Nitish has lost it.
Law and Order seems ok.

People not much happy with breaking of alliance. Praised NaMo for his courage to deliver speech amidst bombs. Many are convinced that the bombs were are the instance of Nikuamma. Police was deliberately lax.

NiKuamma organised Sankalp Rally in Motihari with tight security and metal detectors etc. Newspapers reported attendance of 2000 people only. While returning , his carcade killed one boy.

Mid Day Meal problem continued on one of the district and was big news.

While People like NaMo , Local BJP seemed lack lusture. SuMo is not able to take charge. Met one BJP leader and erstwhile Minister in Bihar Govt. Hopeful of comeback on NaMo wave.

Congis are doomed. Met one relative who has joined Congis and I had good time making fun of him. He acknowledged that Congis have no future. People are positively despise them.

RJD has no chance more so after Laloo is in Jail. Rabri was trying to hold party meetings but voice of rebellion is getting stronger.

So it is NiKu vs NaMo in Bihar. NikU has limited chance as JDu is trying with BahuBalis or goondas to win elections.

Sad at lost opportunities for development. NiKu is not seen as Corrupt free or above caste considerations. He has packed Bureaucracy with his caste. Obviously bringing murmur against him.

My opinion BJP , even with lacklusture unit , will romp home comfortably.

BJP will loose onlee ( in vaunted tradition of BRF anti jinx.)

[sooraj]

Mumbai: give BJP a missed call, get picked up for Narendra Modi rally
http://www.ndtv.com/article/cities/mumb ... lly-457285

[sumishi]

...

Saar,
Tagore's explanation seems unconvincing to me... .
...
... The unrest in Bengal was severe enough for the brits to change their capital from Calcutta(Kolkatta) to New Dilli. So, the unrest in Bengal had to be quelled for the brits.

Say, will shifting of capital from Dilli to umm... Dholera after a probable BJP sweep help in seriously demolishing the power brokers and the dilli-billi crowd of the C-system? Just a thought.

[RoyG]

Seems like BJP win now is inevitable unless Modi is taken out. This is the most dangerous time for him. A lot of people are going to lose their black money b/c of him and the jihadis will get kicked in the teeth in the NE, Kashmir, and Kerala if he comes to power. Same goes for the naxals.

[Karan M]

I wonder if NaMo would come out and talk about the SC verdict today and express solidarity with the lgbt community. That would set the cat amongst the pigeons. And would be fun to watch all the idiots who shout "bharathiya sanskriti onlee" react to it.

Seriously, at such a crucial time, this is what you want NaMo to be doing? Engaging in irrelevant sidetracks and needless controversies.
Talk about misplaced priorities.

[chaanakya]

Met some of the relatives from Delhi just before the results ( at patna)

they are well placed, successful in life. , Middle class, educated, ITVity , Bank, MNCs etc.

All of them said they voted for AAP. I asked why? They replied because of their anti corruption stand and Loakpal Bill. Probed further they had not much idea about Lokapal and how it will reduce corruption . How Janloakpal is different than Govt Lokpal Bill. Except that they wanted PM to be included. I said PM is perceived to be honest and has agreed to include PM within the ambit so what's different. No answer.

Did they know that Kejariwal take foreign funding? Not sure

Do they know the motive behind Agitation on corruption which resulted in giving Congis time to prolong their hold on power?

Do they know that his supporters include those who have taken money from ISI of Pakitan? No , there is no proof or it is a propaganda of BJP.

If not for AAP whom thay would have voted?? BJP of course.

Politically illiterate and naive. I have a feeling that young and educated voters esp first timers and street agitators ( like students) voted for AAP. If one recall, naxal movement was joined by Students from St Stephen's , Hindu College etc. also besides JNU. The voting could be due to some romatic notion of Politics.

[chaanakya]

NaMo has planned Rally in ranchi on 29 Dec. Local admin denied permission to conduct rally at Mohrabadi Ground. It is now being held at Prabhat Tara ground. Tight security arrangement. Ranchi has been linked to Bomb blast at Patan Rally and BodhGaya complex. It has emerged as safe haven for such elements as per IB report and warning to state Govt. NaMo is challenging them in their den onlee.

[pankajs]

Not that it matters but brits too have seen the writing on the wall ..

No ban on visa to Narendra Modi, says British Minister

Chennai: The British government does not judge Indian political leaders and there is no ban on issuing visa to Narendra Modi, Gujarat Chief Minister and Bharatiya Janata Party's (BJP) prime ministerial candidate, a British minister said in Chennai on Wednesday.

[member_20292]

^^^^

mainly due to the "people like us" phenomenon. The AAP is full of idealistic people from education, middle class backgrounds, who have felt the need to speak up against the injustices and inefficiencies in todays society.

Many educated people, automatically become an AAP votebank due to this perceived similarity of backgrounds.

[Karan M]

Politically illiterate and naive. I have a feeling that young and educated voters esp first timers and street agitators ( like students) voted for AAP. If one recall, naxal movement was joined by Students from St Stephen's , Hindu College etc. also besides JNU. The voting could be due to some romatic notion of Politics.

exactly. i met several really self assured AAP supporters, and they couldnt answer any firm details about any AAP policies and nor could they defend kejriwals behavior (batla house encounter, meeting the maulana etc). further, i also noticed kejri/AAP supporters tend to become very fefensive and hostile very fast. and this in real life, so no internet troll thing. its really cult-ish. have seen BJP supporters in contrast explain their stand. the self righteousness which AAP supporters have is jarring, in that they think they are superior and have a moral right to preach. yet, they can't defend many of their points.

AAP is a phenomenon of the clueless, for the clueless, by the canny and shrewd.
kejriwal is an expert at rabble rousing. and he knows what sells.

[chaanakya]

They acted surprised when I pronounced that AAP is a Congis B team in disguise. telling them how it would save Congis from Utter humiliation in Next poll. But for AAP Congis would have been decimated beyond any recognition. But the saving grace is that some of them are still redeamable as they like NaMo. BJP still has a fighting chance to recover in Delhi and win the battle of perception against all Odds(MSM)

[Karan M]

kejri has just won public support by cannily using a variety of means - Anna as Gandhi, Baba ramdev and finally the youth/middle class desire of clean politics by portraying himself as underdog/savior with MSM shrieking his name like a banshee.

but what surprised me is the most educated supporters were not only rabid and uncivil, but also completely clueless of the details. merely supporting him on basis of perceived traits. didn't speak volumes about young educated voters and how/why they support whom they support. another friend pointed out, rhetoric sells, facts dont. and kejri is good at rhetoric and has built an "us" versus "them" angle in the minds of his target audience.

but question is how long will this facade last. so far he has been outmaneuvering his opponents because they underestimated him or sought to use him to target the other side. i have a feeling his arrogance will be his undoing.

after the delhi elections he was smug enough to declare, that both sides were so besharam (INC and BJp) that they would join hands in a few hours. seriously, was he on crack? this level of contempt is a new low even by the standards INC has set. and doesn't speak well for his so called political analysis either.

he also seems very dependent on yogendra yadav. wonder how long that partnership will last.

[panduranghari]

Dynasty's objective is clear. They will sit it out in 2014. They will recoup for 5 years. They will allow BJP to salvage and grow the economy maybe to 4 Trilion USD GDP..go upto 9-10% rates. Then 2019 they will announce freebies and win. Then they will run a bit tight 4 years, and open up the purse a year down from 2023. That will get them to 2028. India will be khaali again and they will sit out another 5 years. Rinse and repeat cycle. This is bad news for India for these reasons:

If India is on top of Asia then all can co exist. CHina and India both.
If China gets to top overwhelmingly..then it will make India;s existence difficult. It will try best to break it up.

Put simply India could afford to go it easy and suffer poverty and dole out liberally as long as CHina was poor too. If the gap between CHina and India is so overwhelming that India is in no position to even catch up somewhere near..we are doomed on the strategic front. So we have to move quickly up on the GDP front so we can maintain some kind of balance. Else we will doubtless see problems emerging all North, West and East of our borders and within too.

Saar

operation indrashakti is decimation of the current economic paradigm. There can be no freebies in the new system. It is not geared up to allow that. ALL the welfare programs we hear about in India and also in the west are unsustainable in such a paradigm. And congress was successful until now due to welfare onlee. However Rajasthan also punctured holes and ended that as a possibility. I do concur that the lazy and the lax still like freebies but its not possible to deliver that in a system which settles the balances on a daily basis.

I see no reason for you or me to fear the resurgence of congress brand of economic policies.

Operation indrashakti is going to hit everyone irrespective of their global clout and current financial might.

Lets hope we as a rashtra are prepared for it. I think we are but not as well as China is as of now. Even European and American nations are not ready for it as China is.

[panduranghari]

Dynasty's objective is clear. They will sit it out in 2014. They will recoup for 5 years. They will allow BJP to salvage and grow the economy maybe to 4 Trilion USD GDP..go upto 9-10% rates. Then 2019 they will announce freebies and win. Then they will run a bit tight 4 years, and open up the purse a year down from 2023. That will get them to 2028. India will be khaali again and they will sit out another 5 years. Rinse and repeat cycle. This is bad news for India for these reasons:

If India is on top of Asia then all can co exist. CHina and India both.
If China gets to top overwhelmingly..then it will make India;s existence difficult. It will try best to break it up.

Put simply India could afford to go it easy and suffer poverty and dole out liberally as long as CHina was poor too. If the gap between CHina and India is so overwhelming that India is in no position to even catch up somewhere near..we are doomed on the strategic front. So we have to move quickly up on the GDP front so we can maintain some kind of balance. Else we will doubtless see problems emerging all North, West and East of our borders and within too.

I have been saying this for year and more now. I found the name for this in spring of 2013 - Indrashakti..

But now BJP is committed - Unless of course, BJP manages to pull off a delhi-assembly like situation nationally.. Will require a very skillful maneuvering and a huge heart to take this gamble. I have been saying, let the gandus of Indian politics take the hit from impending indra-shakti. let them be ghatotkacha. kejri in delhi and secular first OR third front nationally.

this looks unlikely since the resources are now committed. lets see. I pray to Mahakaleshwara that the ones on steering wheel find the necessary luck and well-oiled steering wheel and differential to pull off the extremely difficult but potentially fruitful maneuver. only a Paartha-Sarathi can drive a chariot this efficiently.

पतन-अभ्युदय-वन्धुर-पन्था, युग-युग-धावित यात्री ।
हे चिर सारथि, तव रथचक्रे, मुखरित पथ दिन रात्री ।
दारुण विप्लव-माझे, तव शंखध्वनि बाजे, संकटदुःखत्राता ।
जन-गण-पथ-परिचायक जय हे, भारत-भाग्य-विधाता ।
जय हे, जय हे, जय हे, जय जय जय, जय हे ।।

Atri saheb,
Please if possible could you articulate your opinions of the fall out of operation indrashakti on another appropriate thread or may be even your blog.

[johneeG]

Saars,
I think if the AAP supporter is fixated on Fordriwal, then don't attack Fordri instead try to point out to about his associates, specially Bhushan. I think Archan saar also asked about this.

Archan saar, just follow the career of Bhushan and see all the cases that he is involved in. You'll be amazed. Similarly, Sisodia guy or even Fake Psephologist. Just google their words and actions before they were part of Fordri group. Best thing is that most of the supporters of Fordri can afford to google. So, you don't have to do it for them. Just tell them to do it atleast out of curiosity. They'll find their own truth.

But, saars, I think it takes some time for people to accept a bitter truth, so better to be patient. If a supporter gets combative, generally its a sign that you have touched a raw nerve and he has no answer to it. Of course, the best punches are the ones that are done is soft manner. Jor ka jatka, dheere se...

mainly due to the "people like us" phenomenon. The AAP is full of idealistic people from education, middle class backgrounds, who have felt the need to speak up against the injustices and inefficiencies in todays society.

Many educated people, automatically become an AAP votebank due to this perceived similarity of backgrounds.

True saar. Thats why digging the antecedents can be revealing for the supporters to show that they are anything but 'like us'.

----
Saars,
but what are the views of the Fordri supporters to the latest happenings?
a) Will they again vote for Fordri if there are re-elections or will they vote for BJP?
b) What do they think about Fordri not forming the sarkaar?

[Sachin]

Politically illiterate and naive. I have a feeling that young and educated voters esp first timers and street agitators ( like students) voted for AAP. If one recall, naxal movement was joined by Students from St Stephen's , Hindu College etc. also besides JNU. The voting could be due to some romatic notion of Politics.

+1. But most of these chaps are idealistic and do wish to see India changing. But they are really not bothered on the minute details. Secondly, AAP also has the advantage of being "secular". Congress is corrupt and BJP-RSS-Bajrang Dal all are communal. Being naïve, they also may not have a good knowledge of history and what really happened in the name "secularism".

[Karan M]

Saars,
I think if the AAP supporter is fixated on Fordriwal, then don't attack Fordri instead try to point out to about his associates, specially Bhushan. I think Archan saar also asked about this.

Archan saar, just follow the career of Bhushan and see all the cases that he is involved in. You'll be amazed. Similarly, Sisodia guy or even Fake Psephologist. Just google their words and actions before they were part of Fordri group. Best thing is that most of the supporters of Fordri can afford to google. So, you don't have to do it for them. Just tell them to do it atleast out of curiosity. They'll find their own truth.

JohneeG, can you point me to a few such cases? TIA - since you have a fair idea, it would help me to quickly pick the most notable ones.

[Rahul M]

Atri: Thanks. Looks like my deracination is complete

OTOH, there is this alternate interpretation of "bhArata bhAgya vidhAta" which I remember from my childhood. But Gurudev's repudiation of that interpretation is not well-known (or atleast not known to me till now when I looked at Wikipedia).

Wikipedia

Controversy shadowed Jana Gana Mana from the day of its first rendition in 1911 at the Congress session in Calcutta. King George V was scheduled to arrive in the city on 30 December and a section of the Anglo-Indian English press in Calcutta thought – and duly reported – that Tagore's anthem was a homage to the emperor.[13]

The poet claims in a letter written in 1939: "I should only insult myself if I cared to answer those who consider me capable of such unbounded stupidity."[13] In another letter to Pulin Behari Sen, Tagore later wrote, "A certain high official in His Majesty's service, who was also my friend, had requested that I write a song of felicitation towards the Emperor. The request simply amazed me. It caused a great stir in my heart. In response to that great mental turmoil, I pronounced the victory in Jana Gana Mana of that Bhagya Vidhata [ed. God of Destiny] of India who has from age after age held steadfast the reins of India's chariot through rise and fall, through the straight path and the curved. That Lord of Destiny, that Reader of the Collective Mind of India, that Perennial Guide, could never be George V, George VI, or any other George. Even my official friend understood this about the song. After all, even if his admiration for the crown was excessive, he was not lacking in simple common sense."[14]

thanks matrimc.

Somehow the 'rightwing' is more prone to the negative stories about Tagore as it feeds into the generic 'oh! if only all those leaders had not sold out...'. I had not thought of looking at wikipedia but thanks to the unkown guy who has clarified this. Will look up the original reference as well.

Saar,
Tagore's explanation seems unconvincing to me... too little too late(in completely changed situations). The song was written in 1911 and Tagore 'refuted' in some letter to someone in 1939?!! Thats totally inadequate.

Given the situation and the lyrics of the song, it is reasonable to conclude that the song was written in honor of George V.

'Western Education' for India was recommended and adopted by a committee comprising of Alexander Duff and Macualay. Missionaries were expecting the Indians to convert enmasse in next 20-30 yrs due to this education. - 1835

Bankim Chandra Chattopadhyay starts his literary career. He wrote in Eng and Bengali. He was one of the sole english-educated nationalist voices while most other english educated ones were already half-converted or ready to convert to X-ism. 'Western Education' introduced by Macualay 30 yrs ago was successfully alienating the Hindus from their culture which was portrayed as a mass of superstitions. Missionaries were having a field day. - 1865

Anandamath(novel) of Bankim. The novel was the source of 'Vande Matram' - 1882

Vandhe Maathram was adopted as the warcry by all independent strugglers. So, brits had to neutralize Bankim's influence.

Tagore released his manasi poems - 1890
Bankim Chandra Chattopadhyay died - 1894
First Nobel Prizes given - 1901
Tagore found an ashram at Shantiniketan. He started becoming popular.(Now that Bankim was no longer there) - 1901

Brits tried to divide Bengal and there was severe resistance to it in 1905. Kongis split in 1907 and then, severe crackdown on the nationalists by the brits to allow the brit lackeys to remain unchallenged. Tilak was sentenced to Jail and Lala Lajpat Rai went to US to avoid arrest. Aurobindo Ghosh was arrested and released only after he had become spiritual. Violent revolutions were spawning against the brits. The patriotic fervour had reached its crescendo. There was urgent need for the brits to neutralize this. Gokhale was nearing his end and about to retire. His replacement had to be found. The unrest in Bengal was severe enough for the brits to change their capital from Calcutta(Kolkatta) to New Dilli. So, the unrest in Bengal had to be quelled for the brits.

Bengal was reunited - 1911
Veer Savarkar sentenced to 50 yrs imprisonment in Kaala Paani(Cellular Jail) for justifying the action of Madanlal Dhingra - 1911
Tagore wrote Jana Gana Mana. It was sung on the occasion when George V was supposed to visit India. - 1911


It was reported at that time that Tagore's song was in honour of George V. There is nothing to show that he refuted it at that time. By his silence, it was understood that the song was in honour of George V.

Gokhale visits South Africa to mentor Gandhi - 1912
Harappan seals were found - 1912
Tagore went to England to parade his work there. He caught the eye of a Gandhi protege(missionary) and other literary figures. Then he went to US. Tagore was appreciated by Swedish Academy. - 1912


It was one of the friends of Gandhi who was instrumental in making Tagore popular abroad.

Please note that Jinnah, Gandhi and Tagore all came on the screen almost at the same time. Jinnah and Gandhi even shared the same mentor: Gokhale. Gokhale also mentored the person who founded the Muslim League. Gokhale was opposed to Tilak all his life. Tilak and Gokhale represented two poles. Tilak was arrested and sent to Mandalay while Gokhale trained Gandhi, Jinnah and others.

Tagore was given a Nobel Prize in Literature - 1913
Gadar Party formed - 1913
Wakf validation act was passed. It was introduced by Jinnah in Imperial Legislative Council - 1913
Jinnah joined Muslim League even though he was already a member of Congress - 1913

These phoren awards... should one really think that they are given only for excellence without any motive? Please understand that Tagore was not in favour of the independence movement. He criticized the revolutionaries and others. He seemed to believe that brit rule was the best that Bhaarath could hope for.

Note that Jinnah was simultaneously the member of Muslim League and Congress.

South Africa brit govt accepts the 'demands' of Gandhi because of the recommendations by the Indian brit administration - 1914
Gandhi hailed by media in US, India and UK - 1914
Gandhi went to England and Gokhale was also in Europe for medical treatment - 1914

Gokhale Died - 1915
Gandhi returned to India and was declared a 'Mahathma' immediately on his arrival. He was being built up as a second Jesus. American Papers were also building him up - 1915
Tagore was granted a Knighthood by the brits. These various phoren awards made Tagore immensely popular. - 1915


Jallianwala Bagh massacre and subsequent outrage among Indians against brits - Apr 1919
Ottoman Empire(Turkey) was sought to be divided by the brits after WWI - 1919
Khilafat Movement started under leadership of Gandhi. Gandhi's position was weak. So, he tried to acquire the support of muslims. - 1919
Ramachandra Baba led Peasant Protest in UP(Awadh) - 1919
Ramachandra Baba was arrested and jailed for 2 yrs. Motilal started another Kisan Sabha. Kongis were happy with the removal of Ramachandra Baba - 1919
Lala Lajpat Rai returned to India from US - 1919
Tagore renounced his brit Knighthood - 1919

Note when Tagore renounced his brit knighthood. He was given the Knighthood in 1915. He renounced it in 1919 when the mood in Bhaarath was completely against the brits.

Tagore went on a world tour - 1924

Tagore had been raised on a pedestal. Tagore disliked Nationalism(i.e. independence movement and any overt Hinduism) and hence was a darling of brits, naram-dal and crpto-jihadis. They tried to praise him into some kind of a 'seer'. - 1930

From 1935 onwards, there were massive changes in the world. Rise of Fascists in Italy, spanish civil war, japanese invasion of china, rise of Nazis, ...etc. In Bhaarath, Bose became very popular and exceeded the popularity of even Gandhi. Germany and USSR signed a non-aggression pact in 1939 and the German war against the Brits was imminent. Various brit lackeys were hedging their bets. It was at this time that Tagore supposedly wrote some letter to someone. This is too little and too late to be taken seriously.

Even Gandhi had written once that brits should not fight the Nazis but simply surrender to them and try the 'non-violent' methods. Do you really think that Gandhi did not know what he was saying? He was also hedging his bets.

Link

dear god, this silly urban legend just doesn't die.

I wrote this sometime back.
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 8#p1086598

rao sahab, he died before charles was born !
this is the source of that urban legend. read it all. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jana_Gana_ ... troversies
tagore came from a brahmo family and the brahmo god is an impersonal, nirgun brahman, . in this case however it seems he couldn't resist the human imagery. the song is not about bharat mata, it is an appeal to god to bless bharat and its inhabitants.

it is true he was initially considered loyalist by the british because the earlier generations of his family were certainly so, since they owed their wealth to the connections with the british. however his vociferous and effective opposition to the partition of bengal (1905) certainly disillusioned some of them. the british govt gave him knighthood and at least okayed the nobel nomination (keep in mind it was not directly given by brit govt). he returned the knighthood protesting the jalianwalabagh massacre. to understand his politics you have to read his works, chain mails won't do.

for example, his poem bandi bir (on Banda Bahadur and his struggle against the mughals) is probably the most powerful piece of patriotic literary work I have read.
here's an english translation, unfortunately much of the emotion is lost in translation.
http://www.sikhreview.org/pdf/february2 ... ritage.pdf

___________________________

abhishek, why not try his own biography, jibon smriti. publishers like rupa should have a translation.

___________________________
armen sahab, IIRC most of what we consider today as NE was part of the bengal province. and I guess restrictions of literary forms might have applied as well. for example kashmir is not mentioned.

here's the relevant wiki section :

Historical significance

The poem was composed in December 1911, coinciding with the visit of King George V at the time of the Coronation Durbar of George V, and "Bharat Bhagya vidhata" and "Adhinayaka" was believed to be in praise of King George V as per the British newspapers. The composition was first sung during a convention of the then loyalist Indian National Congress in Calcutta on 26 Dec 1911.[2] It was sung on the second day of the convention, and the agenda of that day devoted itself to a loyal welcome of George V on his visit to India. The event was reported thus in the British Indian press:

"The Bengali poet Rabindranath Tagore sang a song composed by him specially to welcome the Emperor." (Statesman, Dec. 28, 1911)
"The proceedings began with the singing by Rabindranath Tagore of a song specially composed by him in honour of the Emperor." (Englishman, Dec. 28, 1911)

"When the proceedings of the Indian National Congress began on Wednesday 27th December 1911, a Bengali song in welcome of the Emperor was sung. A resolution welcoming the Emperor and Empress was also adopted unanimously." (Indian, Dec. 29, 1911)

Counter arguments

Many historians aver that the newspaper reports cited above were misguided. The confusion arose in British Indian press since a different song, "Badshah Humara" written in Hindi by Rambhuj Chaudhary,[3] was sung on the same occasion in praise of the monarch. The nationalist Indian press stated this difference of events clearly:-

"The proceedings of the Congress party session started with a prayer in Bengali to praise God (song of benediction). This was followed by a resolution expressing loyalty to King George V. Then another song was sung welcoming King George V." (Amrita Bazar Patrika, Dec.28,1911)
"The annual session of Congress began by singing a song composed by the great Bengali poet Ravindranath Tagore. Then a resolution expressing loyalty to King George V was passed. A song paying a heartfelt homage to King George V was then sung by a group of boys and girls." (The Bengalee, Dec. 28, 1911)

Even the report of the annual session of the Indian National Congress of December 1911 stated this difference:

"On the first day of 28th annual session of the Congress, proceedings started after singing Vande Mataram. On the second day the work began after singing a patriotic song by Babu Ravindranath Tagore. Messages from well wishers were then read and a resolution was passed expressing loyalty to King George V. Afterwards the song composed for welcoming King George V and Queen Mary was sung."

On 10 November 1937 Tagore wrote a letter to Mr Pulin Bihari Sen about the controversy. That letter in Bengali can be found in Tagore's biography Ravindrajivani, volume II page 339 by Prabhatkumar Mukherjee.

"A certain high official in His Majesty's service, who was also my friend, had requested that I write a song of felicitation towards the Emperor. The request simply amazed me. It caused a great stir in my heart. In response to that great mental turmoil, I pronounced the victory in Jana Gana Mana of that Bhagya Vidhata [ed. God of Destiny] of India who has from age after age held steadfast the reins of India's chariot through rise and fall, through the straight path and the curved. That Lord of Destiny, that Reader of the Collective Mind of India, that Perennial Guide, could never be George V, George VI, or any other George. Even my official friend understood this about the song. After all, even if his admiration for the crown was excessive, he was not lacking in simple common sense."

Again in his letter of 19 March 1939 Tagore writes,

"I should only insult myself if I cared to answer those who consider me capable of such unbounded stupidity as to sing in praise of George the Fourth or George the Fifth as the Eternal Charioteer leading the pilgrims on their journey through countless ages of the timeless history of mankind." (Purvasa, Phalgun, 1354, p738.)

Moreover, Tagore was hailed as a patriot who wrote other songs too apart from "Jana gana Mana" lionizing the Indian independence movement.He renounced his knighthood in protest against the 1919 Jallianwala Bagh Massacre. The Knighthood i.e. the title of 'Sir' was conferred on him by the same King George V after receiving the Nobel Prize in Literature for "Gitanjali" from the government of Sweden. Two of Tagore's more politically charged compositions, "Chitto Jetha Bhayshunyo" ("Where the Mind is Without Fear" :Gitanjali Poem#35) and "Ekla Chalo Re" ("If They Answer Not to Thy Call, Walk Alone"), gained mass appeal, with the latter favoured by Gandhi and Nettie.
Literary interpretations

The proponents of the controversy stress the usage of the following words and phrases to claim that Jana Gana Mana was written for the King and the Queen of England-

Stanza 1: (Indian) People wake up remembering your good name and ask for your blessings and they sing your glories.
Stanza 2: Around your 'throne' people of all religions come and give their love and anxiously wait to hear your kind words.
Stanza 3: Praise to the 'King' for being 'the charioteer'.
Stanza 4: Drowned in deep ignorance, and suffering, poverty-striken, this unconscious country waits for the wink of our eye and your mother's (Earth's) true protection.
Stanza 5: In your compassionate plans, the sleeping Bharat (India) will wake up. We bow down to your feet O Queen(Earth), and victory come to Rajeshwara(the lord of the lords).

Counter arguments

The supporters of the nationalist message of Jana Gana Mana claim that "King","Throne" and "chariot" refer to the Almighty who will lead India to freedom. "Ma" on the other hand is more likely to refer to "The Motherland" i.e. India, than King George V's mother- The Queen. In Amar Sonar Bangla, the national anthem of Bangladesh, Tagore has used the word "ma" and "mata" numerous times to refer to the motherland. In his deeply mystic book "Gitanjali" (an offering of songs to the God) Tagore has used the same metaphor of God as "King":-

Poem #50:[4] "I had gone a-begging from door to door in the village path when thy golden chariot appeared in the distance like a gorgeous dream and i wondered who was this King of all Kings!"
Poem #51:[5] "The King has come- but where are lights, where are wreaths? Where is the throne to seat him?..... Open the doors, let the conch-shells be sounded!"
Poem #35:[6] "Where the mind is without fear and the head is held high...Into that heaven of freedom, my Father, let my country awake."

The following phrases ignored by the proponents of the King George V controversy strengthen credibility of Jana Gana Mana's patriotic message:-

Stanza 1:"Jana gana mangaldayako" The saving of all people waits in thy hand. Saving from what? Obviously British imperialism.
Stanza 2: The call of the Lord (not the King or Queen)is announced in every Indian home continuously in their prayers. He brings "Oikyo" i.e. unity of the people to gain freedom.
Stanza 3: "Jugo Dhabito Jaatri" (Pilgrims of the ages) are those who follow the path leading to God, not to some King or Queen of British Empire. Similarly "Biplabo" i.e. fierce revolution is our freedom struggle and "Shankhodhwoni"(conch-shell sound) in mythology announced the start of a "battle", here- nationalist struggle against the Empire. This is a path of sacrifice and only God can protect from fear and misery (Sankato Dukho).
Stanza 4: Through nightmares and fears, our mother i.e. motherbhumi protected us in her lap, not the Queen.
Stanza 5"Nidrito Bharato Jaagey" (Sleeping India awakens). This phrase has been used at least once by every nationalist poet to awaken the masses for revolution against British Imperialism. The "Supreme King" makes a mockery of King George V in the sense that the protector of India is a king above all mortal kings.

[RajeshA]

Tweeted

Difference between Aam Aadmi Party and BJP is

RDP vs GDP

"Rona Dhona Party" vs "Governance and Development Party"

This is the message that should go out clearly!

[sum]

They seem to have lost it completely:

Salman Khurshid saying SG is his mom?

Sonia Gandhi isn't just Rahul's mother,but our mother too.She's entire nation's mother:Union Minister Salman Khurshid

[RajeshA]

They seem to have lost it completely:

Salman Khurshid saying SG is his mom?

Sonia Gandhi isn't just Rahul's mother,but our mother too.She's entire nation's mother:Union Minister Salman Khurshid

Those who think Sonia is their Mom should vote for Congress. Those who think Bharat Mata is their mother should vote for BJP.

[chetak]

A bit dated but.........



Narendra Modi undercurrent in the Uttar Pradesh

BY HASHMI SHAMS TABREED

A silent wave is sweeping the Hindi heartland. Despite the brave face, an uneasiness is brewing in dominant regional parties SP and BSP in UP. No one could have predicted that Narendra Modi, the man almost entire political class of the country dismissed as a small regional leader would throw such a challenge in their own backyard.

In my extensive travel across the Hind heartland over past few months and in speaking to people there, the Modi factor is evident. What is surprising is that in the state where traditionally people have voted based on caste equations, they’ve have started talking of development as an agenda for the upcoming 2014 elections. “People talk of development in Gujarat”, says Suresh Pasi, village pradhan from Gohana in Azamgarh. He says “so many people from UP go outside for Jobs. It’d be good if we can get work near our homes.” Something Modi touched upon in Jhansi and Bahraich rallies. A discussion among villagers near primary school in Jogawa village, Mirzapur soon hots up as soon as Modi is mentioned. Shivbaran yadav, accepts they’ve traditionally voted for SP but did not get anything. Most of youngsters go out for studies and Jobs. Poor electricity supply and irrigation woes are perennial problems. He says they’ve heard Modi has done a miracle in Gujarat and they’re thinking about BJP this time. Similar sentiments were echoed in most of the districts of UP. While congress is no longer a force in UP, SP and BSP seem to be losing votes to BJP.

Leadership of Modi and presence of Amit shah seems to have galvanized BJP cadres in UP. BJP was almost a spent force till 7-8 months back. Leaders with bloated egos, inner party rivalries pushed it to the fourth place in last elections. Shah seems to have changed that. Master strategist that shah is, he has avoided public limelight and yet strengthened the party structure. Going by the success of rallies in Kanpur, Jhansi, Bahraich and Agra, he seems to have succeeded to a great extent.

Rise of Modi and declining congress has forced a rethinking in Muslim community. Perplexed and divided, the community is looking for a strong counter to Modi but the absence of a credible alternative isn’t helping. Congress is not strong enough in UP to stop BJP but its the only option at national level. Rahul Gandhi is a damp squib and the perceived pro Muslim utterances of Digvijay Singh et all have failed to impress. BSP has in past joined forces with BJP and would not be averse to doing so in future if it came to that. Hence for Muslims, SP is the only viable option. The recent reports from Muzaffarnagar riots and its aftermath has left a bitter taste for Muslims though. In absence of a Congress BSP coalition in UP, SP will gain Muslim votes by default. however, it doesn’t mean BJP doesn’t have any support. Shia community has in past voted for BJP when Vajpyee was leading and seems they’re gravitating towards BJP once again. Shia leader Kalbe Jawad has already made statements that were taken to be pro Modi. Many in Sunni community are disillusioned as well. Haji Ismail, a hotel owner in posh Hazratganj area of Lucknow says “Muslims have been strategically voting for congress and SP since long and yet they remain poor. Lets us give a chance to Modi”. His employees, all Muslims, seem impressed with Modi’s humble beginnings and his chaiwallah story.

There are numerous stories from UP that defy caste and religious equations. With several rallies planned in UP, Modi is only going to heat up the 2014 battle and charm the UP voters.UP is often called the King maker state and if the indications are anything to go by, then BJP is certainly set for a spectacular rise in fortunes.

[Karan M]

Meenakashi Lekhi ‏@M_Lekhi 17h

#AAP akin2 commentators in a cricket match,cursing all batsmen& claiming2score a century when time2 prove mettle in governance get cold feet

Shashank Singh ‏@shashank157 17h

@M_Lekhi but why BJP is shying away from forming government being d largest party. @bharat_builder

Meenakashi Lekhi ‏@M_Lekhi 17h

:@shashank157 because V can't take support of parties who seek support from the likes of Maulana Tauqeer!

[RajeshA]

Seeing the results in Madhya Pradesh and Rajasthan, BJP cadres in other places esp. UP and Bihar are going to be fully charged and ready to go!

[ramana]

RajeshA, The four state elections were defacto two party elections.
It was
- BJP vs INC in three states of Rajasthan, MP and Chattisgarh
- BJP vs AAP in Delhi with INC a spoiler

I think UP it will be BJP vs SP with BSP and INC as others

[member_20317]

I think the news about Kejriwal contesting against Modi is fake. It has to be fake. For one thing, no other media outlets are reporting it - this would have been breaking news all over the place, had it been true. Secondly, Kejriwal is no fool. He knows that he needs to stay clear of criticizing or directly standing up to Modi. That will decimate him. So far he has been sensible enough not to stand up against Modi, and I am sure he won't start doing stupid things at this stage of the game.

My guess is that kejriwal will not even contest national elections. Let us see.

Well at least there is a rumour among the supporters. What actually happens will be decided probably by congress and AK together.

[Yagnasri]

As you know I am now faithful public servant of mafia facilitators and money bags. As per inside info Nilankani is serious contender for being useful idiot of mafia. Wish to change nation in 10 years as per his talk with family friends. Top Chiddu ministry fellows were thinking till a week back Modi will not get allies.current info after 4 defeats not known.

[Yagnasri]

GATKARI ANNOUNCED BJP VISION 2025 MAY PROPOSE REMOVAL OF INCOME TAX, SALES TAX, EXCISE TAX.

1 OR 2 % BANKING TRANSACTION TAX WITH 1000 AND 500 NOTES ABOLISHED.

BYE
BYE
Mafia, khejiri, trs, sp/bsp, dmk, tmc, jdu, bjd, and the rest of gangs.

[vishvak]

So after 10 years of con misrule, now NaMo has to contest against first timers?

A stable government is even more important now! Plus a healthy crop of second and third string leaders like NaMo or similar style is timely.

[Atri]

GATKARI ANNOUNCED BJP VISION 2025 MAY PROPOSE REMOVAL OF INCOME TAX, SALES TAX, EXCISE TAX.

1 OR 2 % BANKING TRANSACTION TAX WITH 1000 AND 500 NOTES ABOLISHED.

BYE
BYE
Mafia, khejiri, trs, sp/bsp, dmk, tmc, jdu, bjd, and the rest of gangs.

I knew it...

Link please..

Arthakranti finally..

[chaanakya]

GATKARI ANNOUNCED BJP VISION 2025 MAY PROPOSE REMOVAL OF INCOME TAX, SALES TAX, EXCISE TAX.

1 OR 2 % BANKING TRANSACTION TAX WITH 1000 AND 500 NOTES ABOLISHED.

BYE
BYE
Mafia, khejiri, trs, sp/bsp, dmk, tmc, jdu, bjd, and the rest of gangs.

So what will b e the source of revenue? Expenditure Tax?

[disha]

^^ If that is the case, GREAT NEWS.

Removal of Sales Tax and Excise Tax is the biggest step. It will take away 90% of the mafia. <- I am all for it. Sales/VAT should just go away.

Of course, if doing away with IT and just doing banking transaction - and generating enough revenues - that will be the biggest thing!

[disha]

GATKARI ANNOUNCED BJP VISION 2025 MAY PROPOSE REMOVAL OF INCOME TAX, SALES TAX, EXCISE TAX.

1 OR 2 % BANKING TRANSACTION TAX WITH 1000 AND 500 NOTES ABOLISHED.

So what will b e the source of revenue? Expenditure Tax?

I call it in my own words - Transaction tax. The big khan, amerikhan can learn from this!