India-US Strategic News and Discussion

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 17 Dec 2013 17:09

Yashwant Sinha was stating on TV news when Parliament Delegation goes to US they have hard time getting appointment even with single senator

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 17 Dec 2013 17:11

The BJP's Yashwant Sinha said this was not enough action. He said, "The media has reported that we have issued visas to a number of US diplomats' companions. Companions means that they are of the same sex. Now, after the Supreme Court ruling (on gay sex verdict), it is completely illegal in our country. Just as paying fewer wage was illegal in the US. So, why doesn't the Government of India go ahead and arrest all of them! Put them behind bars, prosecute them in this country and punish them?"

tit for tat.

Very likely it is the SC ruling which has riled certain sections within the US govt to take action against the Indian diplomat. So one can rub it in even more if GoI want to play hard. Lot of consular officials will have to leave in a jiffy to avoid arrest.

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 17 Dec 2013 17:17

If you want to establish diplomatic parity, then doing something similar to a US diplomat is the only option.
You could also remind the US of APJ, SRK events , wait for a few weeks to pass and do something similar to a higher ranking US member. That sends a different message.

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 17 Dec 2013 17:18

Having a gay partner is not illegal, sexing them is. What proof is there unless you have 4 bious momeen as witness for the sex?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 17 Dec 2013 17:20

Er you mean their consular officials are into lgbt liaisons here?

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 17 Dec 2013 17:30

Delhi Police remove barricades from outside US embassy.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 17 Dec 2013 17:32

Singha wrote:Er you mean their consular officials are into lgbt liaisons here?

Their buggers are here, there and everywhere

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 17 Dec 2013 17:32

They seem to have applied for "companion visas" with great difficulty as per the NDTV report.

http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/devya ... eststories

So in principle their visas can be revoked for their own safety and asked to leave.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 17 Dec 2013 17:36

Now that the US supreme court has ruled illegal phone tapping for all (at least numbers dialed and length of call) was in effect, one can invite Snowden to India to give a seminar and safe passage citing persecution of a whistle blower in the US.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 17 Dec 2013 17:39

5.23 pm: India demands unconditional apology from US

wasu · Post by **wasu** » 17 Dec 2013 17:46

http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 284_1.html

Indian govt hits back through 7 measures to express its displeasure

1. The immunity US embassy and consular staff enjoy will now be limited.

2. The government has asked for details of salaries paid to all Indian staff employed at the US consulates, including by consulate officers and families, such as domestic help.

3. All airport passes for US diplomats - both from Embassy and Consulates – have been cancelled, which means Americans employed by their diplomatic missions will not be able to walk into the immigration areas to receive family and other visitors arriving in Indian cities.

4. Visa and other details of all teachers at US schools and salary and bank accounts of those of Indians in these schools have been sought by the Indian government – to check if any American teachers are violating India’s visa policy.

5. The Identity Cards of consulate personnel and their families have been recalled.

6. All import clearances for the US including for the import of liquor have been stopped.

7. Traffic barriers around the US embassy in Delhi – put up as a courtesy measure for US embassy staff but a serious inconvenience for Indians – have been removed.

sum · Post by **sum** » 17 Dec 2013 17:52

^^ Why were these there in the first place?

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 17 Dec 2013 17:53

1. Road outside the embassy have been open for free flowing traffic.
2. Speed breakers in-front of the Embassy has been removed.
3. Parking in-front of the embassy has been opened to public.

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 17 Dec 2013 17:58

Wait.
Sonia has to respond before Jan 2nd no?
Looks like a escape hatch for Sonia.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 17 Dec 2013 18:00

pankajs wrote:1. Road outside the embassy have been open for free flowing traffic.
2. Speed breakers in-front of the Embassy has been removed.
3. Parking in-front of the embassy has been opened to public.

Hopefully the footpath in front of the embassy has been opened to patriotic Indians to exercise their constitutional and fundamental rights.

The embassy wall should be named as kejri wall, to encourage the above-mentioned rights.

Ardeshir · Post by **Ardeshir** » 17 Dec 2013 18:37

I am surprised how much the Yankee news outlets are underplaying this.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 17 Dec 2013 18:49

Inside dope apparantly -- from FB

Here is the genesis of Devyani Khobragade diplomatic row:-

1. A new guy got posted in the US embassy here. When the spouse's visa form came to the MEA, it turned out that it was a gay couple. The concerned officer referred to the rule book and realised gay partner does not qualify as spouse, so denied visa.

2. The issue got big, so India immediately gave the visa and also removed the concerned officer from the desk. The IFS officers weren't too happy though. For, an officer was shunted out for following the rules, merely for she chose to not act as a chicken as most would, when it comes to dealing with the Americans.

3. But US being US, its massive ego was hurt.

4. Now, providing incorrect information in the wages column has been going on for ages. It is wrong and unethical, but it has been going on for years, and apparently other missions, including the big ones, too do so, including when they come to India.

5. But the US was still smarting under the no visa for gay spouse knock. So, Devyani was targeted and humiliated and strip searched and made to spend time with criminals, all in total disregard for how a diplomat should be treated.

So, basically, the US humiliated an Indian diplomat just in retaliation, and as is often the case with the US, the reaction was far stronger than necessary.

The Indian government would have pussyfooted again, as is evident when it transferred the officer instead of standing by her, but the rage within the IFS brass was not something they had bargained for. That the NSA of India too is the former Foreign Secretary of India made the government respond in a manner that is uncharacteristic.

Let us now await the consequences! They could be massive, I think!

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 17 Dec 2013 19:03

Dmc should open a lowest quality toilet nd urinal outside khan embassy for benefit of visa seekers made to wait in long lines.
just make sure the septic tank leaks lol.
paan nd nihari shops old dilli style can be allowed outside to serve the hungry masses.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 17 Dec 2013 19:08

The liquor license will be the most painful....

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 17 Dec 2013 19:12

Why? With rupee weak nd various hardship allowances they can still afford to drink themselves silly.
the lower level gora staff might feel some pinch though.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 17 Dec 2013 19:14

Gus wrote:The liquor license will be the most painful....

Indeed.

Diplomatic gay couples are sensitive, will need wine and all before.........

a_bharat · Post by **a_bharat** » 17 Dec 2013 19:14

India should simply announce that the voluntary moratorium on nuke-tests comes to an end and the scientists are free to carry out tests if they feel necessary.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 17 Dec 2013 19:18

Sanku wrote:Inside dope apparantly -- from FB
Here is the genesis of Devyani Khobragade diplomatic row:-

1. A new guy got posted in the US embassy here. When the spouse's visa form came to the MEA, it turned out that it was a gay couple. The concerned officer referred to the rule book and realised gay partner does not qualify as spouse, so denied visa.

2. The issue got big, so India immediately gave the visa and also removed the concerned officer from the desk. The IFS officers weren't too happy though. For, an officer was shunted out for following the rules, merely for she chose to not act as a chicken as most would, when it comes to dealing with the Americans.

3. But US being US, its massive ego was hurt.

4. Now, providing incorrect information in the wages column has been going on for ages. It is wrong and unethical, but it has been going on for years, and apparently other missions, including the big ones, too do so, including when they come to India.

5. But the US was still smarting under the no visa for gay spouse knock. So, Devyani was targeted and humiliated and strip searched and made to spend time with criminals, all in total disregard for how a diplomat should be treated.

So, basically, the US humiliated an Indian diplomat just in retaliation, and as is often the case with the US, the reaction was far stronger than necessary.

The Indian government would have pussyfooted again, as is evident when it transferred the officer instead of standing by her, but the rage within the IFS brass was not something they had bargained for. That the NSA of India too is the former Foreign Secretary of India made the government respond in a manner that is uncharacteristic.

Let us now await the consequences! They could be massive, I think!

According to this story, the officer who denied the Visa was none other than Neena Malhotra, the woman who was fine $1.5 mil in the maid abuse case.

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/ifs-o ... t/1201023/

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 17 Dec 2013 19:20

Guys, stop with the gay bashing... one thing has nothing to do with the other. In the Indian case, the gay diplomat's partner's visa was finally provided ... a serving officer was shifted (unwarranted).

The treatment of Khobragade is of another stripe altogether. Sure, they could have responded - but this is way beyond the pale.

Haresh · Post by **Haresh** » 17 Dec 2013 19:41

The hypocracy of the Americans is sickening.

Is speeding and reckless driving covered by diplomatic immunity?

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news ... r-of-three

Just google the ba$tards name, so much more comes up.

Search for "Joshua Walde Kenya"

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 17 Dec 2013 19:52

What is ERW

habal · Post by **habal** » 17 Dec 2013 19:55

beaten back in Syria, beaten in the mediterranean, retreating from Afghanistan .. yet look at the arrogance of this third rate power. If the conditions for good conduct are not spelt out clearly now, it will mean more trouble to come from a retreating power, who will throw all sorts of tantrums to see if they can get away with it.

Ofcourse, it doesn't concern UPA, it never has but it should definitely concern a more nationalist setup.

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 17 Dec 2013 19:55

Anand K wrote:One point to consider.....
This "strip searching" means she was really stripped and frisked by NYPD Amazons?

Searching as done in California is basically taking you through a metal detector and then running your palms on the person looking for objects hidden. Usually done by a female on a female, but if none available done by a male. The front area, where the breasts are, are touched by the back of the palm. So there is no grabbing of the breasts. Genital areas are also touched by the back of the palm. If the results are not satisfactory, a female has to undress completely, hand over he cloths to be inspected. She, in a nude position the lifts her arms to expose the arm pits, bottom of her feet, shakes her hair and back of her ears. Then she bends down and coughs. If this is not satisfactory, medical help is taken to inspect the body cavities to see in any thing is hidden.
There you have it: The ABC of Searching.
Gautam

habal · Post by **habal** » 17 Dec 2013 20:01

Marten wrote:"This entire episode is facilitated by State Dept to help Mama san get off the hook." - overheard yesterday.
- Apologies for the twittertrashspeak.
Many aspects to this. Deal is this: the maid visas are a known perk and until now, every Indian diplomat has been helped in bringing in their own help from India. This is NOT the first violation or H3 visa fraud. US cos importing agricultural labour via H3 also includes fraud, but this is not taken up by India at ANY forum.
- Mainoji's case is coming up first week of Jan (response required by then).
- Khobragade is an old loyal. They chose an impeccable background. One cannot believe this candidate was not "nominated" with consent. (Given the circumstances that the case was already in). NO outrage in any media until now about the mistreatment. Doubt if even BRFites would have outraged about the maid's family being arrested and her passport being canceled. Any facts related to the maid being a gold digger are probably not relevant to this point.
- The maid is being actively coached by an evangelical body, and she is but a small pawn in the big game. Her family will be given safe passage once enough outrage is manufactured in India against extradition of an Indian who has been convicted in a US court (within the next year, mark my words).

The stage is being set. All players are well known to each other, and the smokescreens built rival the "wheels within wheels" Ludlum usage. Unfortunately, ERWers will say maid is EJ, RWers will say Nation first, Leftists will say Punish the diplomat, but in India - US is a tyrant. And eventually India will be one (future PM included) in saying no prosecution in the US, we will handle it instead.
PS: US has extradition treaties with more countries than India so given the pace of a similar case in India, any 84 riots perpetrator would prefer to stay here than the US.

So DK participated in this willingly ? Her father's tears are approved by UPA high command ?

Also US is a willing accomplice in tarring it's name. It can't be the 'State Dept' that is an accomplice then, must be some shady dept.

Mahesh_R · Post by **Mahesh_R** » 17 Dec 2013 20:15

pankajs wrote:This too shall pass .. just as the anger after 26/11 .. business as usual will return with the passing of the initial fury unless the compromised government is thrown out.

+ 1 sir...I was thinking the same...
when 26/11 happened the way GoI responded I thought old man now get to see difference between Green and Blue.
but unfortunately after 1 month or so it was back to business...

Let us wait one week or max 1 month and all the privileges which are revoked now will be given back in gold platter may be add some more to make the deal sweater...it is only the matter when US SD will issue an apology...goi will jump in joy and forget what the diplomat had been thru ...the worst part is all this was done in front of her kids...

And I guess all this tamasha by GoI is only to divert the attention since they had badly beaten in 4 states now trying to cover as much ground as possible in the next few months...

I hope I will be proved wrong by goi....

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 17 Dec 2013 20:18

Marten wrote:Paul: There's a far far right, just termed them Extreme Right Wingers (ERW)
Habal: Read again - the father is an old loyalist. Uncle is serving IFS, left the US around 2010.
Think about how someone could have landed so many plum posts - MHADA, MSRTC, BEST without real backing from the top. Shinde's friendship is not to be taken lightly here.

All said, take it or leave it. Give it a couple of months and see what comes of it. I believe this is the trial balloon.

Yes, indeed.

All noticed how easily he walked into the Home Ministry and had a meeting with the headman.

Such favors are not easy to come by for retired babus unless there has been a lot of quid pro quo somewhere

Chandragupta · Post by **Chandragupta** » 17 Dec 2013 20:21

Don't think DK was in on it. They chose her because they knew being a lady & second gen IAS, the kind of outrage it would create in India & babudom.

habal · Post by **habal** » 17 Dec 2013 20:27

So it is all about humiliating India, by stripping one of it's women diplomats to save Maino skin. But how about the long term consequences for US in India. This is not a short term affair, it's repercussions will be felt for a long time. US diplomats are henceforth going to have a tough time in India. And whatever the UPA does in response will still fall too short when compared to a nationalist response. In the end it will always look like India was humiliated and stripped to save Maino skin.

Father is a Congress loyalist is obvious, from his postings. Maybe US will offer apology and Father-Daughter duo will 'accept'.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 17 Dec 2013 20:30

Chandragupta wrote:Don't think DK was in on it. They chose her because they knew being a lady & second gen IAS, the kind of outrage it would create in India & babudom.

The US babus are big idiots, might is right variety. Look at the mess that they have created the world over.

I don't think that this virulent, spiraling, out of control reaction was in anyway anticipated by anyone.

If the safety barricades have actually been removed outside the US embassy, there will be genuine all round panic in the US consular circles.

That it's election time in India would have just sunk into their pea brains now.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 17 Dec 2013 20:35

chetak wrote:
sum wrote:^^ Thank heavens atleast the elections and the recent drubbing are causing GoI to do some long overdue reciprocal actions
Some long overdue and serious reciprocity house cleaning may be done by the GOI under guise of protests.

I don't understand why GoI all these years were still providing above and beyond what the US provides for its diplomats and consular officers. At least now, I hope the US diplomats and consular officers are treated exactly the same as Indian diplomats are in US. And if it means no additional security etc for US ambassador, do that. Review every single privilege and maintain parity on all of them.

Expel the US same sex companions too, citing the law! And the gay diplomats! After all, the law should be applied equally, like what the US claims

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 17 Dec 2013 20:39

photo feature on all the barricades being dragged away....ndtv was also allowed to film this exercise and bcast.
http://www.ndtv.com/photos/news/diploma ... assy-16636

there was damage to the road surface as the tow truck could only drag the heavy concrete blocks..but in true rugged dilli style they tied a steel cable and dragged them purposefully away.

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 17 Dec 2013 20:43

pankajs wrote: 3. Parking in-front of the embassy has been opened to public.

Hope Delhiites take this opportunity to plant golgappa walas, pan walas and make the front of the embassy look like chandni chowk.

paramu · Post by **paramu** » 17 Dec 2013 20:44

The Indian embassy in Washington said on Friday that the detention was based on "allegations raised by the officer's former India-based domestic assistant".
The domestic worker had "absconded" from her employer in June and was already the subject of an injunction issued by the High Court in Delhi, the embassy added in a statement on its website.

This is a domestic worker issue which has taken a total different turn.

But they pressed the wrong button and went after visa issue for diplomatic person.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 17 Dec 2013 20:44

^ not just chandni chowk the india gate lawns will do.

ndtv

Devyani Khobragade row: arrest same sex companions of US diplomats in India, says Yashwant Sinha
All India | Edited by Deepshikha Ghosh | Updated: December 17, 2013 14:50 IST

New Delhi: Senior BJP leader Yashwant Sinha raised eyebrows on Tuesday with a comment that after the arrest and alleged mistreatment of diplomat Devyani Khobragade in the US, India should reciprocate by arresting the same sex companions of American diplomats using a Supreme Court verdict that restored a ban on gay sex last week.

"My suggestion to the Government of India is, the media has reported that we have issued visas to a number of US diplomats' companions. 'Companions' means that they are of the same sex. Now, after the Supreme Court ruling, it is completely illegal in our country. Just as paying less wages was illegal in the US. So, why doesn't the government of India go ahead and arrest all of them? Put them behind bars, prosecute them in this country and punish them," Mr Sinha said.

Sources in the BJP say Mr Sinha may have been referring to an American diplomat and his partner, who faced visa difficulties last month.

Ardeshir · Post by **Ardeshir** » 17 Dec 2013 20:46

Also, as someone mentioned on Twitter, if the Yanks claim that Diplomatic Immunity extends only to actions taken in the course of duty, then they shouldn't really have claimed Diplomatic Immunity for Raymond Davis.