LCA News and Discussions, 22-Oct-2013

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 19 Dec 2013 23:27

JTull wrote:The article seems to suggest that the range limit is due to the radome, and implicitly not with the radar.

Yes. It also explains why the LCA team has been looking around for a new radome. We have made radomes for the Jaguar, Mirage 2000, and various other items (missiles etc) which apparently met performance requirements. It seems in this one case, the radome design has not been upto spec, has compatibility issues with the hybrid MMR, so they are looking for a new radome.

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 20 Dec 2013 06:59

Tarmak007: We are offering a battle-ready Tejas to IAF now: ADA Chief
By Anantha Krishnan M
Express News Service
FRIDAY, DECEMBER 20, 2013

Bangalore: The Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) chief P S Subramaniam says that Tejas is completely battle-ready and its increased number of flights in the last 3 years (over 1000) is a testimony to the maintenance, safety and operation features of the aircraft. In an interview to Express on Thursday, Subramaniam said that the Tejas has proved its flying capabilities at all important Indian Air Force (IAF) and a couple of naval bases.

“This year we have touched almost 50 flights and have conducted outstation trails at Jamnagar, Jaisalmer, Gwalior, Leh, Utterlai (near Jodhpur) and Goa. The aircraft has demonstrated the capabilities to operate like a typical squadron. On many occasions the same aircraft has flown more than once in a day. Many have accused us in the past that Tejas was not capable of flying more than once in day. But we have demonstrated flying thrice in a day, which is a pointer towards the ease at which it can be serviced,” the ADA chief said.

He said many local IAF technicians have appreciated the flying and serviceable qualities of Tejas, which was against the general opinion. “Today, the product speaks for itself and we were all glued to improvising its performance for the last many years. The weapon delivery capabilities of Tejas in many modes were demonstrated and over a dozen times we have fired the R-73 E missile. The electronic warfare trials were also conducted at an IAF base in central India,” Subramaniam said.

He said the Tejas is fully battle ready and over the years his team has converted it into a fighting machine from a flying machine. “The IAF is convinced today that they are accepting an aircraft which is completely combat ready. The IAF team in ADA interacted constantly with us to make sure that they get a maintenance-friendly aircraft. The IAF wanted us to cut down the servicing time, which has been done on priority. Today, if Tejas goes for a combat mission, it can be readied for another mission within an hour’s time,” Subramanian said.

The ground support equipment specifications have also been evolved. There are about 20 major ground equipment developed for Tejas. “We have also made some new tools for the IAF technicians and many of their concepts have been incorporated. Today Tejas is a fighter evolved from hundreds of feedback we received from designers, engineers, pilots and technicians. We have gone through the motions of making a new generation fighter and faced many difficulties. The induction of Tejas into IAF will being soon and that should silence most of the critics. Plane-making a serious business and making military platforms is a complex exercise. We have covered some distance and Tejas is the answer,” he said.

Click for the full-sized image

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 20 Dec 2013 07:31

so while the whiners were attacking the program in public, tejas team was slogging away in silence to get the job done. very SDRE - kudos for these hard worker bees.

Gurneesh · Post by **Gurneesh** » 20 Dec 2013 08:34

Does anyone know if the ioc2 ceremony can be watched online somewhere?

OOHHH ndtv is showing it live...

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 20 Dec 2013 08:48

Gurneesh wrote:Does anyone know if the ioc2 ceremony can be watched online somewhere?

Gurneesh,

There was an announcement that ADA/HAL/IAF would allow the telecast and they have put up large screens at the venue for the glitterati. And that this feed could be telecast.

The best feed I got for MOM was on DD@youtube. But I don't have the exact time for the IOC2. So guess, I'll keep my ears open for the thunder of the LCA and then hunt for DD.

Anyone has any info, please post.

varunalh · Post by **varunalh** » 20 Dec 2013 08:54

Tarmaks FB page has the official invite and it says the flying display is from 9.30 to 9.50

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 20 Dec 2013 08:54

jamwal wrote:This retard Rajat Pandit of TOIlet can never write 3 lines without displaying his monkey mind.

a third grade journo..the title of that article itself is a piece of poor journalism that acts as propaganda to make the common man think that the Tejas is going to cost the nation a fortune.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 20 Dec 2013 09:01

nileshjr wrote:^^^^ It is air-break. Probably its slowing down. I dont think LCA uses air-breaks for any flight control operations, though its possible in theory.

ADA site uploded Final Tejas Brochure:

https://www.ada.gov.in/images/IOC%20con ... 0Final.pdf

A good reference to all spec all at one place.

I do think, They should seriously hire some Art agency to do this stuff, it could be much better.

thank you!

The brochure clearly states that the IOC-II angle of attack (alpha) has been tested to 24 degrees. So, Cmde Maolankar was spot on and this was done by Feb 2013 itself. By FOC, they'll probably have to test it at that alpha for all points on the envelope

Gurneesh · Post by **Gurneesh** » 20 Dec 2013 09:04

now on ndtv

dammit idiots showed the take off and went to break..

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 20 Dec 2013 09:08

do we know the inter-mission wait-time for gripen-ng just to compare?

btw, we are grateful to mr anantha krishnan for his sincere reporting.

nash · Post by **nash** » 20 Dec 2013 09:09

Gurneesh wrote:now on ndtv

dammit idiots showed the take off and went to break..

which NDTV:

NDTV india
NDTV 24*7

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 20 Dec 2013 09:10

It was on NDTV 24*7 .....damn it they came with sports news.

Any other news channel covering it ?

Gurneesh · Post by **Gurneesh** » 20 Dec 2013 09:11

^ was 24x7 but they are now showing cricket highlights; even when they have a journalist and live telecast crew on the ground...

Sagrawal · Post by **Sagrawal** » 20 Dec 2013 09:20

Live in ndtv India hindi

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 20 Dec 2013 09:27

try:

http://www.yupptv.com/ndtv_india_live.html

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 20 Dec 2013 09:30

requires some third party player

Gurneesh · Post by **Gurneesh** » 20 Dec 2013 09:32

http://khabar.ndtv.com/videos/live/channel/ndtvindia

but they are showing something else now..

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 20 Dec 2013 09:34

This really sucks. I hope someone is recording the actual event.

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 20 Dec 2013 09:35

NDTV Hindi 10AM news is going to show it.

http://khabar.ndtv.com/videos/live/channel/ndtvindia

They showed it in the headlines. So hopefully they will trot it out.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 20 Dec 2013 09:39

i doubt it , they are showing the diplomat case, they might just show glimpse of it

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 20 Dec 2013 09:52

Indian political skunks are on higher priority then India's breakthrough in aeronautics.

Seriously Indian media need to set their priorities straight.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 20 Dec 2013 09:55

they got it straight , but not for us , for them self

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 20 Dec 2013 09:57

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... ?prtpage=1
Key test for indigenous light combat aircraft Tejas today

Today , the aircraft is different .Comparedtotwo years ago , the angle of attack has been increased to 24 degrees from 17, it has been integrated with a basic electronic warfare suite, has lesser maintenance issues, more weapons and comes with an enhanced flight envelop .

"I remember the first flight vividly . Wing Co Kothiyal and I took off together . Andtoseethatwhitecraftlift off was a moment of unrivalled pride . It was ours and it was flying . Today , I'm proud because it has evolved ," he said . Like most IAF pilots of his time , his heartiswiththeMiG . "AMiG is a MiG, our first aircraft . We used to call it the Ferrari ," he says . MiG-21 FL was decommissioned last week.

So what's the LCA? "It's better than the Ferrari ," he says . "It has an inherent advantage . We have the design , so we can alter it to our needs . Also, inputs from flying the MiG, Mirage and Sukhoi have been used in designing the cockpit . I can say it's the best. The pilot interface is amazing ," he said .

Krishna has the maximum number of flying hours on the Tejas . His colleague , Group Captain Venugopal , said : "There were a few upgrades the IAF wanted two years ago . We've achieved them now , and the aircraft is ready to be handed over ."

He said the LCA is an ongoing programme . "We've achieved certain targets and havesomebeforethefinaloperational clearance (FOC). Even after that , we can keep improving it," he said .

finally jilebi news from ToIlet services.
If Mig21 was ferrari, then Tejas should be lamborghini. IAF has decommissioned fiat, and commissioning Audi.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 20 Dec 2013 10:02

December 20, 2013, will be etched in the memory of the makers (Aeronautical Development Agency) of the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) as it will formally be anointed as having cleared the second initial operational clearance (IOC-II), like January 10, 2011, is etched in their memory when the first IOC was realised at HAL airport.http://www.deccanherald.com/content/375 ... rance.html

The second operational clearance, which will also be realised at the HAL airport on Thursday, implies that the aircraft is ready to be flown by Indian Air Force (IAF) pilots who can now test the aircraft’s combat capabilities live.

So far, only test pilots of the National Flight Testing Centre have been flying the LCA though they also happen to be former IAF pilots. IAF pilots who will test the LCA the entire next year will have the final say on the aircraft.

While the second operational clearance is a moment of celebration for the makers of LCA, it carries strong symbolic value because it is only one year from now that the IAF will decide whether the aircraft can be actually inducted for combat operations and be made part of live IAF squadrons.

The real test for LCA is not the second operational clearance, but the live testing of combat and weapon systems of the aircraft for over one year by IAF pilots who will certify whether they are induction-and battle ready after the formal IOC-II is handed out.

Based only on their approval, of its air prowess and strike power, will the aircraft’s induction begin. This doesn’t take away credit from its makers who have ensured that the aircraft has clocked over 2,400 test flights and 3,000 hours of flying without a single incident and accident since 2001 when the first test flight began.

Additionally, the second IOC is not a climax of work on the LCA, because the IAF has been very grudging about accepting it as a fourth generation fighter, which the scientists say it is. IAF says the aircraft is third generation plus, not superior to the MiG-21, that it will be replacing.

But since January 2011, the makers of LCA have weaponised the aircraft and made it combat-ready. IAF is not willing to accept this until they test the LCA arsenal in live situations.

There is an opinion in certain quarters that the scientist community is pressuring the IAF to accord the LCA the second operational clearance so that it is ready for the final operational clearance and so that it indicates that the aircraft is far more amenable to IAF’s demands compared to what it was in January 2011 and establishes the scientists as being capable of designing a combat aircraft on their own.

The difference of perception on the LCA’s airworthiness between scientists and IAF has been going on for several years, but in the end the rigorous demands the IAF is making may ensure a much better LCA than what is available now.

Scientists have released a report on the strike capabilities of the LCA through the Centre for Military Airworthiness and Certification (Cemilac) and will handover the same to IAF Chief N A K Browne soon after the operational clearance is given on Friday and flight displays are completed. The report is a kind of authentication of the weapons and combat capability of LCA.

we need to lookout for this cemilac report soon.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 20 Dec 2013 10:18

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/t ... epage=true

Made of composite materials, which weigh less than a fifth of metal, the aircraft has marked India’s entry into a select group of nations that can build such flying machines from scratch.
Almost 30 years after it was conceptualized and 20 years after funds were released for it, India’s indigenously designed and developed frontline fighter aircraft, Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas, is all set to get the Initial Operational Clearance (IOC II) here on Friday that would pave the way for its induction into the Indian Air Force squadrons.

Though, the 14 aircraft that have been produced by Hindustan Aeronautics limited so far have clocked nearly 2,500 hours of flying, some of the 11 having flying capability would again take to the skies on Saturday in the presence of Defence Minister A.K. Antony during a function at the LCA-LSP Hangar of HAL , where the IOC II would be handed over by the Centre for Military Airworthiness and Certification (CEMILAC) to the Indian Air Force.

Director General Aeronautics and Chief Executive of CEMILAC Dr. K. Tamil Mani told The Hindu that Tejas was the best aircraft in the LCA category. Apart from being the lightest, with a gross weight of just about 9 tons, it was also the most cost effective as its price ranged from between Rs 170 and Rs 180 crore, which was almost a third of similar fourth generation aircraft.

He said the aircraft is capable of carrying nearly three tons of weapon systems, including laser guided and 500 kg bombs, has a top speed of 1,350 km per hour, capability of withstanding 7 G gravitational force and a 400-500 km radius of operation. However, before it is inducted, the Air Force wants the aircraft to improve its angle of attack from 24 degrees to 28 degrees, possess capability for refueling in air and to possess modern missile systems.

Made of composite materials, which weigh less than a fifth of metal, the aircraft has marked India’s entry into a select group of nations that can build such flying machines from scratch.

Dr. Mani said the LCA project has been developed at a cost of nearly Rs 10,000 crore. The aircraft are likely to go into series production and be inducted into the Air Force in the first half of 2014.

To meet the growing demand, the HAL would be ramping up the production from 4 aircraft in 2014 to eight each in the following two years and 16 in the years thereafter. By 2016, the IAF is expected to raise its first squadron of Tejas LCA aircraft.

While Tejas seeks to mark India’s entry into the 10 ton aircraft category, it is also a technology demonstrator for the nation and has even showed the country’s resilience in standing up to the challenges of denial of technology, as was experienced when the United States had banned the supply of critical flight control equipment in the wake of the Pokharan nuclear tests, said Technology Director of Aeronautical Development Agency, V. Subbu Rao.

Mr. Rao, who has been associated with the project for 26 years, said “entire design and concept is ours and the Mach 1 LCA is better than its contemporaries such as Mirage 2000, F-16 and Gripen.” Moreover, he said, with not a single accident the aircraft has shown a high degree of durability.

Though Tejas have been equipped with GE engines, efforts are on to use Indian Kaveri engines on it. However, the lower thrust provided by the Indian engine remains an area of concern. The Indian engineers are also trying to develop their own radar system for the aircraft, which to begin with would be fitted with Israeli systems.

Mr. Rao said while the development of Tejas has taken a long time, it has led to the creation of huge log data on problems faced. “We are now in a better position to develop the fifth generation fighter aircraft, which come with stealth technology and super cruise, as also the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft, which is at an advanced design stage.Keywords: LCA aircraft, Tejas, IAF fighter jet, Light Combat Aircraft, Indian Air Force, Hindustan Aeronautics Limited, Centre for Military Airworthiness and Certification, CEMILAC

nash · Post by **nash** » 20 Dec 2013 10:21

As per NAK browne on NDTV:

There will be 6 SQD of LCA - 2 of MkI and 4 of MkII.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 20 Dec 2013 10:26

that seems to be in line with earlier projections from what we heard.

ps:
well wait, there is slight number plays here:

The first 20 Tejas will be powered by the American GE-404 engines; the next six Mark-II squadrons (16-18 jets in each) will have the more powerful GE F-414 engines. India will be buying 99 GE-414 engines from GE at a cost of $822-million.

http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/intro ... 1387517397

Eric Leiderman · Post by **Eric Leiderman** » 20 Dec 2013 10:57

28- 30 Million $ per plane this is one aircraft ready to be mass produced.
Way to go, roll them out like sausages, If handled right finding export customers will not be that hard. Our IAF has to start beating the drum about its attributes, making the 3 legged cheetah a beast of the past.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 20 Dec 2013 11:02

one could potentially bring that cost down on economies of scale, and 100% indigenous components.

member_23455 · Post by **member_23455** » 20 Dec 2013 11:20

By accounts on social media quite a snazzy ceremony with helmet mounted videos of three LCAs in flight being simulcasted for journos. They should trickle through in time for lesser mortals.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 20 Dec 2013 11:26

India's Homegrown Light Combat Aircraft - LCA Tejas - achieves initial clearance

IAF Chief on challenges for MK II

The two primary design drivers already identified by us are the critical GE 414 engine integration for enhanced thrust along with perhaps a better intake design and improved maintainability of the platform. With better HMI functionality and a more efficient avionic system architecture, these design improvements promise to add to LCA’s operational capabilities, as envisioned in the ASR. Under pinning these design improvements is the immediate need to adopt efficient management structures... I therefore, urge all agencies to be ready to ‘bite the bullet’ and never hesitate in making tough decisions as they work towards the final induction of LCA MK II into IAF.

Defe Min said that the IAF pilots can begin flying from tomorrow onwards.

member_28334 · Post by **member_28334** » 20 Dec 2013 11:48

Why isn't any channel screening the live video of the IOC -2. I remember that they were supposed to screen the live cockpit video this time. I don't see it nywhere. Neither in the TV nor on net.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 20 Dec 2013 11:57

hopefully, ADA will upload those videos along with images on the tejas.gov.in website.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 20 Dec 2013 14:07

India's Homegrown Light Combat Aircraft - LCA Tejas - achieves initial clearance

have updated it with latest pics and additional info which has been received by various PRO's.

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 20 Dec 2013 14:14

Man, I wish I could get a chance to photograph these birds!

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 20 Dec 2013 14:20

lungi dance lungi dance lungi dance lungi dance
lungi dance lungi dance lungi dance lungi dance

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 20 Dec 2013 14:24

>> it has led to the creation of huge log data on problems faced

this is one of most vital resource...absolutely not for sale anywhere and the enabler which permits people to eliminate 8 out of 10 possibilities to home in on the 2 that bear promise instead of trying all 10 like newbies are forced to.

the west/russia has some 100 years now of aircraft design and production experience across vast range of models.

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 20 Dec 2013 15:01

I think IOC-2 is the moment I've been waiting for since I first saw the video of LCA's first flight in January 2001. I'm quite sure that's when the LCA won many over, including me. I didn't know then that IOC and FOC were two different things. It will take a bit more time till we see a picture of a full squadron of LCA, but considering everything started with this....

... I think the good people at all these places deserve a toast.

This is no less momentous than Arihant's launch. Between the Tejas, Arjun, Kolkata class, IAC and Arihant, India has it all covered.

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 20 Dec 2013 15:24

Deeply satisfying journey from Jan 4 2001 (when I bought a colleague lunch) to Dec 20 2013. Have been tracking the LCA from 1991 and wished it would fly someday and now its close to induction.

Great job by DRDO (ADA, ADE and the rest), HAL, NAL and IAF.

Now onwards to Mk2, AMCA, Aura and beyond.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 20 Dec 2013 16:52

A record I want to set straight. IAF, which I have been bashing since I began my life on forum discussions and later made it a profession, has put in tremendous faith in the projects in recent years. It needs to move the scale up and there is always scope, like trainers. If the momentum is not lost, then it will be called builders air force, which is a proud thing to be put on my sleeve.

When I was invited to today's event by people I look up in these organisations, I politely refused saying LCA now has its tailwind and I have no job there. I was told to channelise my energy to encourage and pat user (IAF) in the back, which is taking an important step. These are the very same people who have been humiliated, called names in media...

Great job IAF. Great Job DRDO.