India-US Strategic News and Discussion

[Rudradev]

You know, I'm honestly delighted with at least one crucial aspect of the way this is likely to play out.

Approving the Rs. 4000 Crore purchase of C-130s should be used by Modi to drag Manmohan Singh face-down through the gravel for the slavish opportunist he is. I've tweeted @narendramodi about this, and strongly urge other NaMo supporters here to do the same. Already the fury in Maharashtra is building up-- RPI activists smashed up a couple of Domino's Pizza outlets today and NaMo can capitalize on this anger hugely by taking the US and its proxy-GOI to task during his appearance in Mumbai on Sunday.

But more than that, much more, I'm deeply gratified at what the US has managed to do to a whole generation of up-and-coming IFS, IAS and Babu cadre. These young folks, in their early 30s, are extremely incensed at the US treatment of their batchmate and colleague. This is the generation that would not have borne any cold-war animosity against the US, but boy have they been alienated now! They are extremely angry, they've had an object lesson in the US "strategic relationship" that no amount of double-dealing with Pakistan would have replicated as impactfully. Note that it is only the has-beens, the Nirupama Raos and Sujata Sehgals on their last legs of tenure, who are still bleating about the "Indo-US relationship" being "too important to burn."

Too important? Not for the new generation of babus. They don't have cold-war baggage but they don't have the colonial-era massaland hangover either, and will not quietly accept the white man's mistreatment of a female colleague-- and everything that it symbolizes-- as an inescapable lot in life. They have long memories. And they will be calling the shots for the next 40,50,60 years!

Goodbye, "natural allies"-- farewell, "strategic partnership". I couldn't be happier!

[member_22733]

You can already see stereotypes creeping in the image posted above: Did anyone note the multiple arms?

[Rony]

You can already see stereotypes creeping in the image posted above: Did anyone note the multiple arms?

Watch This , by the Taiwanese

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04FMiZ-l_60

[Prasad]

That picture is from a cartoon in the hindu about how the modern indian woman handles multiple roles. Not the negative connotations implied there.

[Rony]

Well thought out article from Jaggi. Hope he was our FM instead of that nikamma. Read full

India and US: 5 lessons to learn from Khobragade case

The most astonishing and ironical aspect of the Devyani Khobragade affair involving alleged underpayment to her domestic help is this: it has nearly gone out of control over an issue that should normally have been handled quietly and diplomatically. In this case, both the US and India have miscalculated the other side's intentions - real and make-believe - and allowed matters to get out of hand where a public spat became unavoidable.

The only major gain from all this is what we can learn from it. The learning, however, has to be more intense from our side as we were the naïve ones in the relationship.

The first lesson for us to learn is that America is a frenemy - a friend by necessity, and an enemy by instinct and past cold war realities. This is as true on the Indian side. We too have cold-war-mongers influencing foreign policy, even as economic and business realities, as well as geopolitical compulsions, propel us towards an alliance based on mutual interest. Dealing with a frenemy calls for more nuanced approaches where the costs and benefits of agreements have to be negotiated clearly and unambiguously.

China is a frenemy too - but here the second part of the term (the enemy bit) is more apparent to us and hence a policy is easier to calibrate. Despite the power asymmetry, we know what we have to do: we have to build up our border defence capabilities even while expanding economic ties with some safeguards. But with America our mistake was that we simply let our guard down and assumed they are fully on our side. They are not.

This brings me to the second point. For Americans, the alliance with India is one of geopolitical convenience. It is about providing a counterweight to a rising China apart from giving US multinationals market access in Asia’s second largest growing large economy. But they are under no illusion that Indian interests coincide with theirs.

It is best to understand US interest in us by taking a look at their domestic politics. For simplicity's sake, let's assume there are two broad poles - centre-right and centre-left - in American politics represented by Republicans and Democrats. We also have to understand that within these broad groupings, there are ultra-right and ultra-left pressure groups that exert an undue influence on policy. The ultra-right, for example, would include Neocons and Evangelical groups whose interest in India is from the religious conversion point of view.

The ultra-left would comprise the unions and the vast armies of educated Americans who are underemployed or unemployed due to India’s skilled challenge. They believe that cheap Indian engineers are eating their lunch, and hence they are at the forefront of instigating visa fraud cases and protectionist legislation against TCS and Infosys, among others.

The interests of the American right and left sometimes converge and sometimes diverge. Hence it is not possible for Americans to have a simple friend or foe policy with India. (It is the same with Pakistan, where the US believes Pakistan is vital for protecting its West Asian strategic interests, but it’s also a double-agent when it comes to fighting terror.)

Back to American politics. The Evangelists, for example, are essentially Islamophobic and they worry that by mid-century Muslim demography will make Islam the world's dominant religion. They are thus interested in easy conversion options - and there is no market bigger than India to help them drum up Christian numbers, as China is closed. Millions of evangelical dollars are being poured into India by these groups, raising communal tension and suspicions everywhere. The Evangelicals can also look at Africa, but conversions there have already reached critical mass (outside the Islamic parts of Northern and Eastern Africa), and hence further conversions will be hard to come by.

Logically, an Islamophobic Christian right and an equally Muslim-baiting Sangh Parivar should be natural allies, but the conversion agenda makes them antagonists. In fact, it was American evangelists who fought the hardest to highlight the Gujarat communal conflagration even though it was Muslims who got killed in larger numbers in 2002.

Where the interests of left and right converge is in showing up India's human rights and religious freedom lapses. The left would like to use this to deny us labour market access, and the right to make this a key reason to justify aggressive conversion. Khobragade fits in well into this picture - for it is an obvious case of underpayment under American law, and the domestic help in question provided everyone the necessary ammo to use against Khobragade and India. We have played into this perception by tom-tomming the maid issue beyond reason.

But we also need to understand why we are unable to defend our own interests.

The problem is, unlike the Americans who see this alliance as a mere convenience, we view America with the blissful unawareness of infatuated lovers. Indians love America and the American way of life; we dream of American visas, American jobs and American education. This is what made a Sangeeta Richard (Khobragade’s estranged domestic help now at the centre of allegations against her) accept a good wage by Indian standards just to enter America. She then proceeded to betray her employer once American NGOs and other busybodies offered to get her a better deal.

The truth is Americans were never in love with us before or after 9/11. Till 9/11 we felt angry and jilted that our love was not reciprocated and we went to bed with the Russians instead. After 9/11, when an angry George Bush was scouting for some friends in South Asia, we accepted the offer with both hands and jumped to the wrong conclusion that this time it was the real thing. It wasn’t quite.

The Americans probably understand our follies better than we understand theirs. They understand our poverty and eagerness to ingratiate ourselves with the White man; we mistake their apparent politeness for genuine friendship and trust. We let our guard down without real proof of fidelity.

As the withdrawal of the special concessions given to American embassy staff in the wake of the Khobragade affair shows, we bent over backwards to give them benefits that they did not give us in return. And this is why we feel particularly angry they behaved like this with our diplomat. We feel betrayed.

There is another aspect where we have to hold a mirror to ourselves. And it’s not really about the maid and visa fraud. The truth is we are deeply compromised. We think we have given the Americans special favours but they think they have already paid for it. This is how it works. Given our love for America and the obvious attractions of American universities and work life, they are happy to quietly help our elite bureaucrats, politicians, intellectuals and senior media personnel to find scholarships, fellowships, jobs and sinecures in US think-tanks.

It would be interesting to know how many of our intellectuals and the media have been long-term guests of Uncle Sam. None of this may be corruption, but it surely clouds our judgment when we seek reciprocity in relationships. I would not be surprised if we have given the Americans more or less a free hand to send all their spies here in the belief that they won’t do us harm, and that they must really be hunting the jehadis. But can we be sure? What is the guarantee that the Americans have not planted maids on our consuls in the hope of gathering intelligence from our top diplomats? We have to be on guard.

The Americans have surely paid for our friendship, and given our willingness to settle for small favours, we have compromised national interests in the bargain. We have traded private benefits for the elite while they have safe-guarded their national interests for very little expenditure. For every favour, Pakistan extracts billions of dollars in aid. We give the same for a scholarship here, a think-tank position there.

This leads me to the third lesson: in future, even while dealing with a likely ally like America, we have to build reciprocity into the relationship. Even more important, we should build coercive counter-capabilities. See how the Americans have handled it. To let Khobragade off, they will demand a high price. Do we have a bargaining chip? An American who they want to rescue? Or will we just take things lying down and accept minor regrets and the deportation of Khobragade as a face-saver?

The minor lessons to learn from the Khobragade affair are these: the fourth lesson is that we have to re-examine the domestic help policy and instead pay our diplomats more, so that they can afford to employ locals. This is the hard lesson the Infys of the world have learnt after paying fines for alleged visa frauds. It is time the government of India and the Indian Foreign Service learnt this.

Fifth, we should closely monitor American politics and find the right mix of allies among left and right to get our work done. This calls for hard work, acute policy analysis, and a hard-nosed understanding of our larger interests. This means creating our own strong think-tanks and not using spare capacity in American think-tanks, whether it is the Heritage Foundation or the Cato Institute, the American Enterprise Institute or Brookings.

We also have to monitor our IFS officers and netas who send their children for studies abroad. This is where we will find many of the things that compromised us.

The media, for its part, needs to be wary about accepting every American junket that comes its way. But this is easier said than done, and most media enterprises accept junkets (including, Firstpost) as they themselves cannot afford the big costs of covering foreign affairs or business through foreign travel. It is not an easy issue to resolve. But the bottomline is simple: we can’t make easy assumptions about American friendship, however desirable it may seem. Genuine alliances can only be built on the principle of reciprocity and mutual respect. That simply ain’t there right now.

[Yagnasri]

Rony ji this is the best analysis I have read. I do hope Modi does some thinking on these lines. The 2014 elections may result is more intelligent leadership in MHA.

[Karan M]

Jaggi rocks.

[Karan Dixit]

If answer to those questions is no then why is GoI providing all those 'amenities' to the US diplomats and citizens?
.

The answer to all your questions is a loud YES. Now tell , why congis are providing non reciprocal amenities. The answer is that they get private benefits to their wards/themselves.

I wrote that post in a hurry. Here I just revised it.

***

What I am saying in this post is not triggered by the current incident with Devyani Khobragade. However, this could have prevented such incident(s).

Indian diplomats in the US do not get the kind of privileges India accords the US diplomats in India. I do not know how long this has been going on but this is the root cause of the problem. Congress party could hardly conceal its glee when Modi was denied visa. They did not even seem to understand the sophistication and motivation of such US policy. It is truly sad.

Does US custom/immigration fingerprints Indian citizens entering the US?
Does US frisk Indian diplomats (even the Ambassador) when they pass through airport security?
Is Indian embassy (and consulates) allowed to erect barricade to protect itself from would be terrorist attacks in the US?
Do Indian diplomats enjoy immunity in the US?

If answer to those questions is no then why is GoI providing all those 'amenities' to the US diplomats and citizens?

This is what needs to be fixed without any fanfare and emotion. The US is a friendly country and we should not engage in unnecessary meaningless rhetoric against a friendly country.

[Mort Walker]

Rony,

Good post. A few comments in the article stated that perhaps India should give Edward Snowden asylum in India. Why not? As well as Julian Assange. This way all of the US's dirty laundry would be aired out.

[Prem]

MutuA
The Real Story Behind India’s Diplomatic Feud With The U.S.

[quote]U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry called Indian National Security Advisor Shivshankar Menon on Wednesday to “express his regret” regarding the very public diplomatic row regarding the arrest of India’s deputy consul general Devyani Khobragade in New York on December 12. Kerry also noted his concern that the two friendly nations “not allow this unfortunate public issue to hurt [the] close and vital relationship.” Menon is one of many elected and unelected officials who have publicly denounced the United States’ handling of the arrest — where she was handcuffed and strip-searched — as “despicable” and “barbaric.” Khobragade is accused of submitting false documents in an application for her housekeeper to live and work in the U.S. and of not paying the housekeeper a minimum wage, as per the affidavit filed by the U.S. Department of Justice. While Khobragade is entitled to some diplomatic immunity related to her official duties, consular officials are still subject to arrest or detention for felonies.

Furor and backlash is resounding in all parts of the Indian society. ThinkProgress earlier noted that the arrest set off a growing feud, with many prominent officials chiming in. Prime Minister Manmohan Singh called the treatment “deplorable.” Indian National Congress Vice-President Rahul Gandhi and several ministers declined to meet five visiting U.S. Members of Congress. Opposition party Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) leader Narendra Modi sided with the majority for once, tweeting he would “stand in solidarity protesting ill-treatment meted to our lady diplomat in USA.”

Protests and calls for India to take an actual stand led to a series of petty reprisals — Indian authorities removed security barricades surrounding the U.S. embassy in New Delhi, revoked the identity cards of U.S. consular personnel, and began investigating salaries paid to Indian staff members at U.S. consulates. Citing the recent Indian Supreme Court decision outlawing homosexuality, one BJP official suggested arresting the same-sex partners of U.S. diplomats. As the BJP put it, India should “match each and every step of the U.S., to take serious action in this matter to establish Indian sovereignty and prestige of its diplomatic community.”
The U.S. handling of the situation certainly raises concerns on standard U.S. Marshall and State department protocol — are strip-searches necessary, even if performed by a female deputy marshal as the Department of Justice has clarified? Do the charges against Khobragade warrant public handcuffing? Scuttled under the fiery words and cries of humiliation, though, it has been forgotten that there are serious charges against the diplomat, and that the domestic worker is also an Indian. The bipartisan approach in which elected officials in India have come to Khobragade’s defense is a good sign of political pandering with the upcoming 2014 elections — where politicians are keen to show voters that Indian pride is still alive and well. The Indian narrative surrounding this case reveals a troubling gender and class bias. The arrest and humiliation of a middle-class Indian woman has caused national outrage, yet the mistreatment of the lower-class maid goes unmentioned or worse vilified. The New York Times noted that “[it] is not unusual in India for domestic staff to be paid poorly and be required to work more than 60 hours a week.” The only statement that the Indian Embassy has made about the domestic worker in this case — Sangeeta Richard — is noting in a press release that she is the subject of an Indian warrant for “blackmailing by Ms. Richard demanding that she be permitted to change her passport, visa status and to work elsewhere.” /quote]

[Prem]

Nanny, not my daughter, culpable of any visa fraud, Indian diplomat's dad says

WASHINGTON/MUMBAI: The father of the Indian diplomat charged with visa fraud in course of bringing an absconding housekeeper to the United States says the nanny who filed the visa petition should be held guilty — and not his daughter Devyani Khobragade — because it was the she (the nanny) who alone signed the application and appeared for the visa interview.Devyani Khobragade does not know what transpired between the US official and Sangeeta Richard at the time of the visa interview and what documents were submitted by Sangeeta Richard to the US authorities, he maintained, adding that his daughter "has nothing to do with the entire visa process except that she helped Sangeeta Richard by typing the information provided by her on her computer for electronic submission to the US authorities."Khobragade said Devyani did not submit a single document nor made any statement to the US authorities for the visa of Sangeeta Richard. The said agreement/employment contract between the two, which is being referred to, is not a statement under oath. It is a proper contract signed between two Indian citizens in Delhi, and any violation thereof is in domain of civil law and no criminality is involved.

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes ... grant-visa

[sanjaykumar]

Well I am sure good practising Christian folk are aware of issues of institutional racism, which is endemic to India of course. Thus prompting the rescue of Christians.

Institutional racism: “refers to the processes – intentional and unintentional – by which
criminal justice agencies systematically discriminate against certain social groups on
grounds of race or ethnicity”

But see,
http://diverseeducation.com/article/7569/


With a little bit of this:
http://www.sheldensays.com/asianvictims.htm

and http://www.civilrights.org/publications ... itude.html

http://www.civilrights.org/publications ... lence.html

And what about this

http://www.civilrights.org/publications ... icans.html

But of course it is better than India

http://www.civilrights.org/publications ... anics.html

http://www.civilrights.org/publications ... cific.html

http://www.civilrights.org/publications ... icans.html


Anyways good luck with the trial thingie if you decide to plead not guilty.

[habal]

Rony,

Good post. A few comments in the article stated that perhaps India should give Edward Snowden asylum in India. Why not? As well as Julian Assange. This way all of the US's dirty laundry would be aired out.

You can't use Snowden or Assange as bargaining chip, in the sense once they are here. They remain here. Their lives are in danger if they are sent outside or bargained for. And that is not a risk to be taken. Their asylum to India would be done out of plain spite for US. The Russians are smart, they have kept the Snowden card open, by not granting outright asylum when they could have very easily done so, this they did so that someone disaffected with US may have a go at it.

Basically the Indians have played all their cards wrong, have given an impression of dispensing favors at the drop of a hat. They haven't got back anything concrete for their one-sided dispensations so far. That is the bare truth. The whole Indian political and bureaucratic class needs to understand this. This is a lesson to the whole country.

Americans have any leverage only until we keep hankering after Devyani. Once we let go and get determined to spite, it will disturb them quite a bit. It is good in a sense, that even the most pliable sections of the Indian adminstration led by none other than ManMohan are being taught this lesson.

It is again a failure of the Indian political class to have allowed Americans such easy access to Asia. They should have put up hurdles at every step of the way, we should have used our relations with West Asia to create hurdles for the Sam there. We should have kept them uncertain in Afghanistan, where the only worthwhile activity they did was to encourage the growth of poppy crops, and this is an activity the Taliban could have well done by themselves. We built walls around us, and shut ourselves inside because we lacked a capacity to take risk and win. We didn't intervene in Iraq or Iran with an intent to secure the lives of the civilians. To hide our lack of risk-taking ability, we surround ourselves with legalese, that we can't do this, we are not allowed to do that, we are bound by these rules etc in the international arena.

Atleast the Pakistanis did the right thing by increasing the opportunity costs for the Americans for entering and operating in Afghanistan and Af-Pak. They leaked cash from the Americans for the slightest of favors.

[Dipanker]

Unfortunately for Devyani K. the judicial report on Adarsh Scam is out, does not bode well for her. Apparentally she lied and submitted false papers to get a flat in Adarsh complex.

[habal]

It does not matter a wee bit in this case. That is an internal matter between her, her father and Indian courts.

When the US was busy attacking Iraq, Iran, Syria, Afghanistan, all we did was sleep away the events and call it opportunity cost for being allowed the favor of doing business with Uncle Sam. The attitude itself was all wrong, we can create the capability to intervene in each and every conflict in mid-east within months just like we intervened in Sri Lanka. We have a tendency to underestimate ourselves quite a bit due to the lack of confidence that the Brits and various ruling classes bestowed us with.

It is time to reclaim Asia.

[sanjaykumar]

Basically the Indians have played all their cards wrong, have given an impression of dispensing favors at the drop of a hat. They haven't got back anything concrete for their one-sided dispensations so far.

Not really, withdrawal of special privileges theoretically cost India little but some goodwill. This is probably not about India's proximate actions but more about India setting a precedent. The nearest analogy is not selecting the F18/F16/MiG 35. Sure it was only a commercial deal but none of these planes have won an order since in any competition I know of, and given that due process is followed with no histrionics the action is seen as legitimate by the world community. India today, Kyrgyzstan tomorrow.

[Arjun]

by Abhijit
This case can potentially be the downfall of the pretty boy barara. There is equal chance that this case may be lost by him and then his entire overzealous prosecution and intimidation tactics will come under scrutiny. He has already ruffled many other powerful feathers.

Like what other powerful feathers?

SBajwa ji, not a response to your question - but one reason Preet Bharara is a complete dickhead is because he believes "due process" under US law is important but does not provide the same consideration to Indian law. There are probably other reasons as well, but from an Indian perspective the above point is critical to remember.

[habal]

>> and given that due process is followed with no histrionics

that's the plain reason why it is preferable to hunker down and shut up if you are not going to invoke reciprocity to save Devyani. No more comments from foreign minister. Nor does he need to entertain US phone calls. Just shut up and do all of us a favor before you leave forever.

[Prem]

Rony,
Good post. A few comments in the article stated that perhaps India should give Edward Snowden asylum in India. Why not? As well as Julian Assange. This way all of the US's dirty laundry would be aired out.

Americans have any leverage only until we keep hankering after Devyani. Once we let go and get determined to spite, it will disturb them quite a bit. It is good in a sense, that even the most pliable sections of the Indian adminstration led by none other than ManMohan are being taught this lesson.

As per her father , she did not sign any Visa papers and Sangeta went alone for interview with Consular. If true , its going to be big shit blown all over. Indians should agree that let the law take its course and if proven guilty , sentence her violating all Diplomatic rules. But if she is not guilty, are they going to cook the trial, which will be almost impossible? Only disappointing part is the opportunity to take the whole EJ infrastructure is being wasted and that old man MMS still clinging to Kursi.

[sanjaykumar]

Unfortunately for Devyani K. the judicial report on Adarsh Scam is out, does not bode well for her. Apparentally she lied and submitted false papers to get a flat in Adarsh complex.


Sure try her in India and jail her.

[chanakyaa]

This means creating our own strong think-tanks and not using spare capacity in American think-tanks, whether it is the Heritage Foundation or the Cato Institute, the American Enterprise Institute or Brookings.

Haha.....these institutions are used by the establishment in a spare think-tank capacity?? These fine institutions are public-opinion shaping spy agencies... Unbelievable.

[Rony]

In the context of Slavish Singh and Janpath courtiers giving go ahead for the C-130 J deal inspite of the row, something to appreciate about the Brazilians

NSA ruined it!' Brazil ditches Boeing jets, grants $4.5 bln contract to Saab

Brazil has rejected a contract for Boeing’s F/A-18 fighter jets in favor of the Swedish Saab’s JAS 39 Gripens. The unexpected move to reject the US bid comes amid the global scandal over the NSA’s involvement in economic espionage activities.

[Arjun]

This means creating our own strong think-tanks and not using spare capacity in American think-tanks, whether it is the Heritage Foundation or the Cato Institute, the American Enterprise Institute or Brookings.

Haha.....these institutions are used by the establishment in a spare think-tank capacity?? These fine institutions are public-opinion shaping spy agencies... Unbelievable.

A number of Indian HNMs (High Networth Morons) have funded the Indian arms of Heritage and other think tanks...

[sanjaykumar]

Well India does need to have responsible NGOs and rights advocates to push for systemic justice for disadvantaged groups. The US is full of them and there has been material improvement in levels of equity from the 1960s. One has to admire this society for it.


Here is a list of the members of The Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights. Impressive by any standard.

http://www.civilrights.org/about/the-le ... n_members/

[Singha]

my memory is hazy but didnt a couple of US marines get into police trouble in delhi a few years ago ?
unable to find it in google so far.

all this drama reminds me of the dying days of the roman empire...under attack on all fronts internally and externally...clans of germanic tribes, visigoths & franks plundering and pillaging the frontier belts, even sacking rome deftly....people running away to eastern roman empire for safety....old temples destroyed....and a pleasure loving sickular elite who pretend all is well inside their mansions....always attempting to bribe the invader with gold and grain....legions melted away...restive peasants and slaves...

[chanakyaa]

...This means creating our own strong think-tanks and not using spare capacity in American think-tanks, Brookings. it is the Heritage Foundation or the Cato Institute, the American Enterprise Institute or Brookings.....


Haha.....these institutions are used by the establishment in a spare think-tank capacity?? These fine institutions are public-opinion shaping spy agencies... Unbelievable.

A number of Indian HNMs (High Networth Morons) have funded the Indian arms of Heritage and other think tanks...

Oh yeah... It is a public knowledge that one of the Ambani brothers is part of the Heritage foundation. Hey when the country's keys are in part handed to Italian bahu, submitting to foreign think tanks seems less worthy of treason.

[Philip]

I am frankly amazed at the US's insensivity in this case.Over a decade,Indo-US ties have definitely improved to a degree never seen before,where we have mil. exercises together,buy US eqpt. in the billions upsetting our "old friend" Russia which has felt left out in the cold.Ronu's post is spot on.Our over-enthu policy makers of the snake-oil brigade have imagined that by lickiing Uncle Sam's boots,he will stroke the head of his latest pet canine,tickle its chin and throw him a bone whenever he barks for a titibit! Simpleton Singh and co. simply forgot that Uncle Sam also carries with him,Uncle Theodore Roosevelt's "big stick" ,with which to beat the foreign cur if he gets out of hand.A sound thrashing every now and again is Uncle Sam's method of keeping his "pets" to heel.

I have for aeons posted how the closer one gets to America,the greater the danger of being shafted.For over a century now world leaders ,Uncle Sam's closest cronies like the Shah,Saddam,Marcos,Noriega,Thieu,just to name a few,were unceremoniously dumped into the dustbin by the yanquis.One can now add Dr.Singh of "India loves you" infamy to the list! Coming so soon after the rout in the recent elections,this must've felt like a spear up his "cavity" for our gallant lion who has scarcely mewed in protest. We have tolerated US espionage (TOI report),where we quietly sent the gent in Q back home.We could've exposed him in style like the Russians did with their US spy,"James Blond",Chris Fogle,remember him?

The name is Blond... James Blond: Russia set to expel US 'spy' caught wearing a shaggy wig as he offered millions to agent to switch sides. U.S. diplomat named as Ryan Christopher Fogle was arrested last night Russia claim he was attempting to recruit a Russian secret services official
Letter allegedly found on him offers agents $1million per year to defect
U.S. ambassador to be summoned to Russian foreign ministry to explain
Photos of his belongings show he was in possession of two wigs, three pairs of sunglasses, a microphone, knife and a plenty of money

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z2o4S53vmD

Anyway,we didn't give him the "Full Fogle",as the Russian did,keeping in mind our desire not to harm ties.What have they done to us in return? Traumatised through a sadistic ,perverted ,fascist and racist arrest of a poor lady Indian diplomat who has not by any stretch of the imagination committed a heinous crime in the US ,and treated her like a junkie wh*re and "finger raped"! How would Hillary Clinton,Condy Rice, or the US ambassador feel is they were "finger f*cked" in both "Cavities" by our cops?
To add gross insult to injury,the US scumbags and sh*tworms of the State Dept. from Kerry downwards refuse to apologise and maintain they they've done nothing in return! If so then India must return the compliment to every US diplomat male or female as well as every yanqui tourist who enters our domain,after all they're the world's worst drug abusers and smugglers.

The longer the US takes to keep sh*tting upon India,the further downhill will relations plummet.As Rony,Karan and others ghave pointed out,this is an eye-opener for young diplomats and IAS babus as to the grim reality of institutionalised US establishment racism,where unless you are a WASP,you will not be full;y respected or treated with the dignity that every human being deserves.It is all the more inexplicable that this has occurs not during the presdiency of a blue-blooded WASP,say Dubya Bush for example,who appeared truly genuine in his affection for India and Indians,but under a black president who behaves like an "Uncle Tom" pervert in a Ku Klux Klan hood

[sanjaykumar]

.For over a century now world leaders ,Uncle Sam's closest cronies like the Shah,Saddam,Marcos,Noriega,Thieu,just to name a few,were unceremoniously dumped into the dustbin by the yanquis

South Korea, Malaysia, Japan, Indonesia, post war Germany have all used their proximity to the US for economic development. India and South Korea had similar poverty as recently as the early 1970s. Where are they? Where is India?

Or is it that Indians are culturally incapable of engaging the US in a mutually beneficial relationship?

[A_Gupta]

Diplomats are human, and not infallible. Many of them might have gotten diplomatic positions by climbing their native country's power structure in unsavory ways. They are no different from other human beings in their character, morality, adherence to the law.

BUT - diplomats are appointed representatives of their countries. So, there are protocols for dealing with the no doubt innumerable cases where a diplomat has broken the law of the host country.

The one question is - why were these niceties not extended to an Indian diplomat?

The question is in nature the same as - what is the value of an Indian passport? Will the Indian government stand behind its citizens? (Notice, I have not mentioned anything any particular citizen might or might not have done.)

Every thing else is sideshow - whether the diplomat actually committed a crime, whether the maid was indeed exploited, etc. - there is due process and **had it been followed** none of this would have made the news.

[Arjun]

Or is it that Indians are culturally incapable of engaging the US in a mutually beneficial relationship?

That's a rich question - coming as it does after a violation of the principles of the relationship from the US side and not from the Indian side !!

If the implication is that India needs the US more than the US needs India - please to shove it up...

[chanakyaa]

.For over a century now world leaders ,Uncle Sam's closest cronies like the Shah,Saddam,Marcos,Noriega,Thieu,just to name a few,were unceremoniously dumped into the dustbin by the yanquis

South Korea, Malaysia, Japan, Indonesia, post war Germany have all used their proximity to the US for economic development. India and South Korea had similar poverty as recently as the early 1970s. Where are they? Where is India?

Or is it that Indians are culturally incapable of engaging the US in a mutually beneficial relationship?

Sanjayji, the reason India is behind b'cas people like you and me have decided that politics is not for us. I think India will do much better under you or any other BRFite as Prime Minister. AAP showed that it is possible. Let's not cry on last 50 years but look forward to next 50 years to be different.

[sanjaykumar]

Deleted, wrong thread.

[sanjaykumar]

If the implication is that India needs the US more than the US needs India - please to shove it up...

Sure Mac, hope you got your three meals today.. I mean that in all sincerity.

[habal]

The question is in nature the same as - what is the value of an Indian passport? Will the Indian government stand behind its citizens? (Notice, I have not mentioned anything any particular citizen might or might not have done.)

On second thoughts, it seems that the 'devil may care attitude' is due to fact that US has given up on Asia after Syrian theatre failure. India is lost to it forever too, however it doesn't care because it is not in the game anymore.

Now field is open to Bear or Modi or whoever can take charge from hereon.

[Arjun]

If the implication is that India needs the US more than the US needs India - please to shove it up...

Sure Mac, hope you got your three meals today.. I mean that in all sincerity.

You brought up a point about, what was it again - "Indian cultural incapability of having a mutually beneficial relationship with the US" when the US has done everything possible to puncture it. And your reply, when this is pointed out, has no logical connection whatsoever...

I guess I am concerned about the communication capabilities of my fellow American citizens (& I presume you are one)...I mean that in all sincerity as well.

[sanjaykumar]

You are correct to be. Your reply makes no sense to me.

[CRamS]

As may pointed out, the sense of superiority and righteousness and refusal to see India's POV by US is simply breath-taking. I checked this morning's US newspapers and nothing much, meaning, ignore these protesting Indian casteist rascals, we are a culturally, racially, superior, enlightened superpower coming to the aid of someone who was treated like a slave and "our laws" (scripted directly from Jesus Christ) were violated.

Please don't call me a bigot if there are any gays on this forum, US law is so sacrosanct as to supersede the Vienna convention, then I think Yeshwant Sinha has a point, namely, since gay sex is illegal in India, lock up the gay US diplomats and do a cavity and strip search on them by a rugged Tihar jail cop in Delhi. How will Americans react to this? Of course, we know what the reaction will be, so this was just rhetorical.

The point the racist Americans, and their establishment and Indian Uncle Toms don't realize is that this was not a crime of such proportions to humiliate and legally rape an Indian diplomat representing India. It could have been handled quietly and with dignity. The rest is all hot air.

My take so far, Game, set, & match to USA. India will get a few dog bones as usual. What concerns me more is that surely, after this shameful humiliation of India, India's standing is sure to go down, and rightfully so as a 2-bit banana republic masquerading as a hollow "we are an emerging superpower" country. India's immediate enemies, TSP, and China will be the biggest beneficiaries. I can only imagine TSP RAPE laughing their asses off at the "US India Strategic Partnership" on display through this DK episode. Be it 26/11, or the brazen Chinese incursions in Ladakh, or this DK episode, India has been shamed and humiliated, and all India can do in return is show some impotent rage.

[Arjun]

Sigh...Ok Sanjaykumar, how about you start by explaining how you deduce "Indian cultural incapability of engaging in a mutually beneficial relationship with the US" from the current incident ?

[sanjaykumar]

Please don't call me a bigot if there are any gays on this forum

I am not particularly gay but that would classify as a bigoted statement by any thinking liberal. if Indians are to be taken seriously by anyone in the west other than bible thumping primitives, you need to get over the gay thing.


I can only imagine TSP RAPE laughing their asses off at the "US India Strategic Partnership" on display through this DK episode.


Not really I expect them to be full of admiration. A stereotypically obese sweaty dude handcuffs a Dalit diplomat, India's suave Menon calss it 'barbaric'.

An most allied non-NATO allied rascal kills two of Pakistan's finest and he is eating Kentucky fried chicken in the few days he spent in custody while the ally arranges for a military plane to ferry him out.

Let us keep some perspective.

[habal]

My take so far, Game, set, & match to USA. India will get a few dog bones as usual. What concerns me more is that surely, after this shameful humiliation of India, India's standing is sure to go down, and rightfully so as a 2-bit banana republic masquerading as a hollow "we are an emerging superpower" country. India's immediate enemies, TSP, and China will be the biggest beneficiaries. I can only imagine TSP RAPE laughing their asses off at the "US India Strategic Partnership" on display through this DK episode. Be it 26/11, or the brazen Chinese incursions in Ladakh, or this DK episode, India has been shamed and humiliated, and all India can do in return is show some impotent rage.

I am not sure your conclusions are correct. It's US that seems to have given up on Asia. With India, ME, China & Russia now out of bounds. They are not in competition with anyone for anything.

It's game, set, match to whoever wins elections in India. For that entity will control democratic Asia's future. US is out of the race.