India-US Strategic News and Discussion

sraj · Post by **sraj** » 21 Dec 2013 08:21

vera_k wrote:
12:22 pm: Omar questions removal of US embassy security barriers

"I'm all for reciprocity but removal of US embassy security barriers is taking things too far. These barriers weren't a privilege, were they?"
If the security barriers weren't a privilege, there should be records of how much the embassy was paying or being billed for those barriers. Have the barriers been paid for going back to the time they were first placed?

For last 10 years, GoI allowed a major road to be blocked to traffic in the process of providing security barricades to the US Embassy in New Delhi.

Guess what? Even the parking spots on the doorstep of the Indian Embassy in Washington, DC are public parking spots. And the Indian Embassy is much more vulnerable than the US Embassy in New Delhi.

Once the US installs security barricades in front of the Indian Embassy in Washington, DC, it can request for reciprocal privileges for its Embassy in New Delhi.

We need to implement the principle of strict reciprocity without fanfare. Either one of the opposition parties can move a bill in Parliament mandating this, or one of our PIL activists can get this done through the courts.

Similarly, GoI needs to implement a system where all Indian nationals employed by the US Embassy, Consulates, schools (consular officials, administrative staff, teachers, drivers, guards, etc.) are paid the same wages as those paid to US nationals for similar work in these workplaces, with US minimum wages serving as the floor. "Equal pay for equal work", particularly on "deemed US territory" should not be a concept foreign to our egalitarian American friends. Again, a PIL filed in the Delhi High Court or the Supreme Court may accomplish this if GoI is unwilling.

Above needs to be certified to GoI by the employer in every single case by filling out detailed forms asking for voluminous information, together with copies of signed contracts in standard formats provided by GoI, and annual signed certification of payment of all taxes due, medical coverage, etc.

This will keep them on a short leash in the future. We need to start creating our own pressure points.

kenop · Post by **kenop** » 21 Dec 2013 08:46

A couple of points
1. Complaints about the maid's disappearance were made by Dr. DK (also Embassy?) to NYPD immediately. IIRC, no action was taken. Does it sound like "police has not yet filed FIR" that we encounter in India? Can/Does that happen? If no cognizance was taken, then the wheels were set in motion as long back as Jun end. Something was cooking on low flame. The GOI had lost sight of the ball and did not do anything to remove Dr. DK from the US soil. Complacency? Or complicity?
2. GOI has not yet started any (publicly declared) investigation in the whisking away of the husband and children. Wonder if there is any will to do that. They just continue to appeal and demand action from GOTUS. Have their passports been declared as withdrawn? Action on these lines would be semblance of willingness to act. As far as the maid is concerned, the Delhi HC case had resulted in communication with the US. Why inaction now?
3. Action on the other fronts is still not enough. The first batch of activities like removal of barricades, stoppage of liquor import licenses etc. has had no effect (I had no expectations from this in any case). Escalations from the GOI side is not seen. Waiting for the Christmas week to get over perhaps. However, if something of significance is done, I am sure the concerned officials from the GOTUS will be obliged to get back to office or phone to sort things out.

habal · Post by **habal** » 21 Dec 2013 08:59

In case spiriting away of Philip Richard & Family was a low level ops by US embassy CIA staff in cahoots with DP DCP level staff, the staff would have been punished by now. That it is not so, implies clearly that whatever happened with Philip Richard had full approval of the political authority that controls police and IB/immigration. So right from minister's level to the very top. That is why US didn't bargain for any retaliation, since they thought they had the political class in their control.

What is also happening is that the US is winning a few tactical battles and showing tactical brilliance by using language such as 'retrospective immunity', they are putting up a brave face because they fear a loss-of-face more than anything else. But they know well, the damage has been done.

Every cloud has a silver lining. Maybe, and just maybe, India has just accomplished the impossible. Syria finished massa's trans-border intervention capability. India has finished his soft power capability.

And usually when the soft power goes, the hard power will soon follow. These days I keep myself in good humor watching this. US must now get used to him too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfwaR57miKg

member_22872 · Post by **member_22872** » 21 Dec 2013 09:02

Of course, they have a right to fleece a maid, break the law and claim immunity
Verbal diarhhea.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 21 Dec 2013 09:07

The Coup Journo on Dk Episode.

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/of-co ... /1210149/0

Truth to tell, instead of cursing Bharara, we should try and import him as our first lokpal.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 21 Dec 2013 09:07

Singha wrote:so long as this circus of all critical parts of the indian power elite 'placing' their sons/daughters via marriage and immigration into the US does not end, this unequal treatment will continue. even MMS daughter who last I heard was a ACLU lawyer is probably carrying a american passport by now! not having foreign entanglements must be strictly enforced for higher levels of babus and political appointees.

our elites can do nothing - not the congi regime for sure. and all the senior babus have their sons/daughters/bhatijas in the US.

the problem is not so much the "placement" as it is the power balance in the equation.

the "placement" itself can be very advantageous if the Indian Govt has an established policy of encouraging and following policies and institutions internationally which have strong tilt of constantly presenting the "motherland" to those living in foreign lands.

think of how Israel encourages the "Jewish citizenship" instead of a purely "Israeli citizenship".

the problem is the lacking apparatus which takes all those living outside and provides them with a strong, "nurturing" force that can always be relied upon to back them in their ambitions.

that's what is needed.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 21 Dec 2013 09:11

Indian Express Executive Editor V. Sudarshan:
http://www.newindianexpress.com/opinion ... 956256.ece

The president himself makes that case: Davis is a diplomat, a man who shoots and kills two Pakistanis in full public view and causes the collateral death of another. We still do not know what else Davis did during his Pakistani stint in line with his “diplomatic” work but surely it wouldn’t be pretty. As Obama saw it, starkly in black and white: “If our diplomats are in another country then they are not subject to that country’s local prosecution.” What sort of diplomat carries a Glock and shoots people dead and is immune from “local prosecution”?
....
....
According to America, Davis is a diplomat and deserves the full weight of the Vienna Conventions and Devyani Khobragade does not deserve the minimum courtesy due to a real diplomat.

member_22872 · Post by **member_22872** » 21 Dec 2013 09:22

Francois Gautier: #DevyaniHumiliated However much I love India,I've often been shocked at how Indians - specially rich ones -treat & underpay their servants.

Sometimes I feel no matter how much a foreigner loves India, he fails to understand the pulse and soul of India and Indians. Please keep in mind the reference.

Shanmukh · Post by **Shanmukh** » 21 Dec 2013 09:23

sanjaykumar wrote: South Korea, Malaysia, Japan, Indonesia, post war Germany have all used their proximity to the US for economic development. India and South Korea had similar poverty as recently as the early 1970s. Where are they? Where is India?

Or is it that Indians are culturally incapable of engaging the US in a mutually beneficial relationship?

Germany and Japan had all the ingredients for success. They had all the knowhow to rebuild their society - a disastrous war was their main problem, and they succeeded.

South Korea has succeeded in eliminating poverty, but at a terrible price. Indonesia - well - the country too has been shafted considerably.

The problem for India is that it is too weak to be a great power on its own, and too strong to be a vassal. She is never as strong as she believes, and never as weak as her foes want her to be.

habal · Post by **habal** » 21 Dec 2013 09:29

nageshks wrote:She is never as strong as she believes, and never as weak as her foes want her to be.

You can be as strong as you believe in, just need to walk the talk or walk the thought. In the end, it boils down to risk taking ability. As Indians get more confident, they will increase their risk taking ability too. It's a work in progress. From a nation of test-takers we will morph into a nation of risk-takers and take risks for significant gains. Eventually we shall prevail over US in their own game. But the first steps have to be taken.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 21 Dec 2013 09:36

relevant x-post from Nukkad.

LokeshC wrote:In all this stuff, I find one element surprisingly missing :- An underlying reason to unite.

There is no framework in current day India that is powerful enough to unite people over their differences. Instead there are divisive frameworks like caste, religion, region etc etc.

Our macaulayized elites and macaulayized population have made a major self-goal has been accepting the "knowledge" from the west that Hindoo == caste system. People stop looking into Hinduism as an framework that is powerful enough to unite, instead they go intellectually bankrupt and borrow everything from the west, like sekoolarism, communism and many other ism resulting in competing frameworks and even more divisiveness.

This kind of intellectual bankruptcy is the biggest bane of India. In the US thread I was mentioning that we have had almost zero true post colonial thinkers and I was wondering why. I think the answer is we started borrowing things from west and became intellectually lazy to create anything by our own way and be confident enough to stand by it.

And so we have an army of snake-oil salesmen who know to vomit post-mordernist prose and are fanatically devout believers in one of the "isms" of the west. For any issue in India there solution is the same"ism". People in the west who create ideas love these guys and they get invited to posh foreign conferences all expenses paid and what not: to tell the story on how that "ism" saved 10000s of poor people in a secluded village of snake-charming SDREs. Once they taste this money, they will be even bigger followers of that "ism" and they develop an army of local Indian chamchas. This is the new International intellectual slavery and/or colonialization. The kingdom of "isms" and their game of thrones, ofcourse all "isms" are alien to India.

The fact is, India is in such a deep economic bind by following these "isms" from the west, to which the solution is some or the other new"ism" and some new local gungadeen will emerge singing paeans to that "ism". Meanwhile people keep going around in circles.

Fun Fact: Post-mordernist prose can be generated by an automated computer algorithm: http://www.elsewhere.org/pomo/ refresh the page and you will see a new post-mordernist essay that has never been seen before.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 21 Dec 2013 09:41

nageshks wrote:
South Korea has succeeded in eliminating poverty, but at a terrible price.

Just curious, this is OT, and to me it does appear that SK's success is simply dazzling. What is the terrible price they have paid? Of course, I would anyday love to be in an India with smiling faces, an easy go attitude (although it goes too far), and a liberal way of looking at things, but I am not sure what is the terrible price.

But sticking to topic, if one thinks India is a pushover when it comes to US, which no doubt it is, many of these east asian countries including SK are nothing but pliant side kicks of US and western wannabes (especially their women) putting on an air of independence. And they also show impotent anger when US walks over them like they did to India on DK.

Patni · Post by **Patni** » 21 Dec 2013 09:42

To me it seems the real pro usa tilt under current administration of MMS is going to get neutralised and India will in coming few years be able to stay out of being grouped into pro USA camp and be a small pole in hopefully new multi polar international order we will see in coming decade.

Shanmukh · Post by **Shanmukh** » 21 Dec 2013 09:44

CRamS wrote:
nageshks wrote:
South Korea has succeeded in eliminating poverty, but at a terrible price.
Just curious, this is OT, and to me it does appear that SK's success is simply dazzling. What is the terrible price they have paid?

Have you ever talked to a South Korean Buddhist? Please do, and you will see what I mean.

KrishnaK · Post by **KrishnaK** » 21 Dec 2013 09:45

LokeshC wrote:As long as Brown Sahibs exist, India will not be developed.

Every country has had brown sahibs at some point. If your statement had any semblance of fact, no country would be developed.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 21 Dec 2013 09:48

^^Then you probably did not get the point. Point is, these brown sahibs were unceremoniously (and usually violently) dumped, in the other countries that are successful in uniting themselves into a power.

Ex: China had the brownsahib catonese unceremoniously and violently dumped into Taiwan. Japan had the brownsahib shoguns (fiercely patriotic, but feudal), dumped in Meijin restoration. USA had people like Paul Revere exposing traitors in the revolutionary war. French revolution the bourgeoisie got what they wanted to guillotining the nobes. All these countries are proud of who they are. They dont need external validation to stand up on their own ideas.

In India, intellectually bankrupt brownsahibs are the movers and shakers. Most of them are the morally sleazy slimeballs. Fine specimen is our Prufrock Tejpal.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Dec 2013 09:50

Ok, Dipankar et al any one who brings in Dk's Adrash society links will get one step banned to cool them and make and example.
That aspect is India's internal issue. Kapisch?

sivab · Post by **sivab** » 21 Dec 2013 09:50

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1131221/j ... 705344.jsp

The US state department recognised Sangeeta Richard as a victim of trafficking as far back as July at a time New Delhi was asking Washington to help trace her, exposing its deep mistrust of India’s claims that the nanny at the centre of a diplomatic row was an absconder.

The state department awarded Sangeeta a T-1 visa, exclusively given to victims of human trafficking. In December, it handed her husband Philip a T-2 visa and their daughters T-3 visas, which allow family members of trafficked victims to join them in the US.

These new details, confirmed to The Telegraph by multiple Indian and US officials, challenge the perceptions of differences between the state department and US attorney Preet Bharara whose move to arrest diplomat Devyani Khobragade has exploded into a rare public feud.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 21 Dec 2013 09:51

Dipanker wrote:Unfortunately for Devyani K. the judicial report on Adarsh Scam is out, does not bode well for her. Apparentally she lied and submitted false papers to get a flat in Adarsh complex.

Are decks being cleared by khobragade pater, preparatory to entering politics by "gifting" away all his property so that none appears on his list of assets declaration??

How much is Devyani Khobragade worth?

According to a story in Rediff.com, Devyani Khobragade is not pleased with her portrayal, by some sections of the media, as "a rich elite exploiter, a child of privilege."

Further more, in an email to Foreign Secretary Sujatha Singh, Devyani stated -

"Only my friends know how I live here in Manhattan, saving every penny."

However her own assets disclosure paints an entirely different picture than that of a simple, humble employee of the government.

While her Government salary may be a topic of dispute, Devyani Khobragade does not lack for funds, inheritance or influence.

According to a document submitted by Devyani, and available through the Ministry of External Affairs website, she owns about 35 acres of agricultural land, six non-agricultural plots of land totaling roughly 15,000 square feet and three flats of 500-1000 square feet each.

Her declared income from all of this is about Rs 2,30,000 per year, the majority of it comes from the flats.

Interestingly her listed income from 25 acres of land (Rs 25,000 annually) is nearly the same as the amount she listed in another 2-acre plot of land (Rs 20,000 annually.)

Her assets are also pan-Indian, as her various properties are spread across from Kerala to Uttar Pradesh to Maharastra.

In Maharastra alone, she owns property in five different villages, Pune and Mumbai.

Seven of her properties were either inherited or gifted to her by her father, who is a former IAS officer.

And as is already well known, one of her flats in within the infamous Adarsh Housing Society in Colaba.

Flats in that society, built on Defense land, were supposed to be given to the kin of those soldiers martyred in Kargil. However the flats have nearly almost completely been distributed amongst political bigwigs and those with connections in Mumbai.

The entire matter is currently under investigation for fraud, snaring quite a few big names in Maharastra politics.

The Adarsh Report, a report on the entire scam, was recently presented in the Maharastra Assembly, where the Government refused to accept it.

The opposition declared that the refusal was an attempt by the State Government to not take responsibility for the scandal.

sivab · Post by **sivab** » 21 Dec 2013 09:52

http://m.timesofindia.com/india/Govt-mi ... 696106.cms

The Richards' — parents of Philip — live in the house of a US diplomat at 5, Aurangzeb Lane in Lutyens' Delhi and the premises used to be the residence of the US embassy's political counselor.

Owned by the US government, in the past the house was occupied by Geoff Pyatt, Ted Osius and Uzra Beya. Philip's mother worked for the Pyatts as their cook, and the father was employed there as well.

The house is currently occupied by a senior US diplomat, and the Richards' continue to live there. There are now serious questions about the role played by US diplomats in getting the Richard family to the US by slapping a trafficking charge on an Indian diplomat.

Second, refuting the charge that the Richards were "persecuted" in India, government records say Philip and his son Jatin applied for fresh passports on September 17. Philip got his passport on October 4 and Jatin a couple of days later.

Officials here say the fact that they got their passports without a fuss is testimony that no such vengeful action had even been contemplated. "But they were clearly working to a plan, and were being advised on all their moves, including when to apply for a passport," sources said.

habal · Post by **habal** » 21 Dec 2013 09:53

CRamS wrote:But sticking to topic, if one thinks India is a pushover when it comes to US, which no doubt it is

Why don't you have any doubts ? there are still so many issues wherein India was not a pushover. For instance we were not pushed over regards Bangladesh. Just imagine, even with the most pliant regime in place still ..

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 21 Dec 2013 09:59

Dipanker wrote:Unfortunately for Devyani K. the judicial report on Adarsh Scam is out, does not bode well for her. Apparentally she lied and submitted false papers to get a flat in Adarsh complex.

Well, first of all this is an internal matter and nothing to do with Devyani's ignominious arrest by Amirkhans. Second, the report mentions that there is no evidence of quid pro quo in respect of six officers whose wards were allotted flats. One of them happens to be Devyani's father. The Report finds that DK was not eligible as she was having a flat in Oshiwara.She had applied under reservation quota and rightly so as she belongs to Sc community. Mr Khobragade has answered that while applying they have given undertaking that the existing flat would be sold and in fact the price of new flat has been paid out of sale proceeds. So that bears out. However the Adarsh Scam is something which is wrong ab-initio and a matter of discussion in appropriate thread. Please do not mix up the issue. There are bigger congi fishes to be fried and congis are trying hard to save.

habal · Post by **habal** » 21 Dec 2013 10:02

For those who even think for a moment that IFS officers may abuse servants. I have this to say. In IFS hostel in dilli, not a single apartment would have an IFS officer wherein a help, would be treated any less than a member of their own family. IFS is a profession that centers around image and public image is of primary importance. And the officers are very self-conscious on what they portray to the public at large. If they are even remotely abusive to their servants, it will soon be news across the cadre in one way or another and their entire career would be in jeopardy due to this, because of the poor halo they have created around themselves. So great care is ensured in how the domestic help are hosted in the household. And that is one primary reason why IFS-Diplomat types are so popular amongst an upwardly mobile section of nanny/domestic types. No way can one look at them as a conventional 'full-time servant' (which is a very rare phenomenon these days anyway) in a middle-class household helping with all the family chores. There is absolutely no comparison here.

So that is why such a case is not even imaginable.

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 21 Dec 2013 10:10

krithivas wrote:Ms. Devyani will NEVER get a fair jury trial in the US because the common populace has been poisoned by a never ending stream of caste bias, oppression stories against Indians in general.

Krithivasji,
Trials in the US are never fair. Justice dispensed depends on the circumstances and whims of the lawyers, judge and jury. Personally, I have seen people get for a DUI, 2 years, 5 years, 7 years or even 15 to life. For a Murder of second degree, it can be 7 to life to 50 to life or anything in between. These are sentences for similar charges. I have also seen many get life for stealing a pair of shirts (three strikes law). Generally, if you are black or Hispanic you automatically get a bad deal. Strangely, this is accepted by everyone as something natural. That is the reason the prisons are 33% White, 33% Black and 33% Hispanic, very disproportionately colored. The rule here is to plea bargain, or have the book thrown at you. But to do that Dr. K has to plead guilty. That will be very difficult for her. If she pleads not guilty, she has to be found not guilty by a jury of Americans who do not like any one that is different from themselves. And to deliver her fate to a group of semi-literate stupid people will be a great gamble. OJ has proven that you can get away with a group of brilliant lawyers (the dream team). But, with the negative publicity a jury trial will be very risky. Dr. K not being white will almost automatically be of great disadvantage. Also, pleading guilty or being judged guilty will forever take away her chances of getting a green card and stay with her husband. That possibility has become dim anyway right now.
Gautam

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 21 Dec 2013 10:11

Patni wrote:To me it seems the real pro usa tilt under current administration of MMS is going to get neutralised and India will in coming few years be able to stay out of being grouped into pro USA camp and be a small pole in hopefully new multi polar international order we will see in coming decade.

I have my own pisko theories which cannot be aired here on why MMS is such a US side-kick, except to say that he simply does not share the "exceptional Indian nationalism" to borrow a phrase from US lexicon. He is a "South Asian" at heart as scripted by US. Has MMS expressed so much desire to visit and be a part of historical places across the length and breath of India to show off his pride as an Indian, as much as his often expressed desire to visit TSP? About the only pride I have seen MMS express forcefully as an Indian is his "secularism".

KrishnaK · Post by **KrishnaK** » 21 Dec 2013 10:15

Philip wrote:I am frankly amazed at the US's insensivity in this case.Over a decade,Indo-US ties have definitely improved to a degree never seen before,where we have mil. exercises together,buy US eqpt. in the billions upsetting our "old friend" Russia which has felt left out in the cold.

I have for aeons posted how the closer one gets to America,the greater the danger of being shafted[/b].For over a century now world leaders ,Uncle Sam's closest cronies like the Shah,Saddam,Marcos,Noriega,Thieu,just to name a few,were unceremoniously dumped into the dustbin by the yanquis.

Nice try Phillip. We purchased mil gear from the US because it was the best we could get. And no, Manmohan Singh is not the same as the Shah, Saddam, Marcos, Noriega, Theiu or whoever else. Not even if he actually had the same moral fibre as those you named, because he's the PM of India. Stop peddling your nonsense for a change.

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 21 Dec 2013 10:19

habal wrote:For those who even think for a moment that IFS officers may abuse servants. I have this to say. In IFS hostel in dilli, not a single apartment would have an IFS officer wherein a help, would be treated any less than a member of their own family. IFS is a profession that centers around image and public image is of primary importance. And the officers are very self-conscious on what they portray to the public at large. If they are even remotely abusive to their servants, it will soon be news across the cadre in one way or another and their entire career would be in jeopardy due to this, because of the poor halo they have created around themselves. So great care is ensured in how the domestic help are hosted in the household. And that is one primary reason why IFS-Diplomat types are so popular amongst an upwardly mobile section of nanny/domestic types. No way can one look at them as a conventional 'full-time servant' (which is a very rare phenomenon these days anyway) in a middle-class household helping with all the family chores. There is absolutely no comparison here.

So that is why such a case is not even imaginable.

And yet Debyani's case is 3rd one in almost as many year. First it was Prabhu Dayal (?), then Mehrotra, and now Debyani. Got to be the maids?

KrishnaK · Post by **KrishnaK** » 21 Dec 2013 10:21

LokeshC wrote:^^Then you probably did not get the point. Point is, these brown sahibs were unceremoniously (and usually violently) dumped, in the other countries that are successful in uniting themselves into a power.

Ex: China had the brownsahib catonese unceremoniously and violently dumped into Taiwan. Japan had the brownsahib shoguns (fiercely patriotic, but feudal), dumped in Meijin restoration. USA had people like Paul Revere exposing traitors in the revolutionary war. French revolution the bourgeoisie got what they wanted to guillotining the nobes. All these countries are proud of who they are. They dont need external validation to stand up on their own ideas.

In India, intellectually bankrupt brownsahibs are the movers and shakers. Most of them are the morally sleazy slimeballs. Fine specimen is our Prufrock Tejpal.

You have no point to make. India has been united into a "power" for a while now, your angst notwithstanding.

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 21 Dec 2013 10:25

Dipanker wrote:And yet Debyani's case is 3rd one in almost as many year. First it was Prabhu Dayal (?), then Mehrotra, and now Debyani. Got to be the maids?

Habal was talking of ill-treatment and abuse of servants. These cases are based on pay disputes centering around what is allowed by the visa - not on abuse.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 21 Dec 2013 10:25

KrishnaK wrote:You have no point to make. India has been united into a "power" for a while now, your angst notwithstanding.

Ok saar, you win.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Dec 2013 10:27

chetak, What relevance is the DK's property to this thread?

Do you want one step ban along with others?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Dec 2013 10:28

A_Gupta wrote:Diplomat Devayani Khobragade was strip searched by the US Marshal Service. If you look up their policies and directives (from 2010), you will find that a strip search was legally allowed only if there was reasonable suspicion that the prisoner has contraband or weapons, or is a security, escape or suicide risk. If a strip search was conducted, the Marshals had to fill out paperwork with the justification.

But then the US Supreme Court, in 2012, ruled that strip searches could be conducted by the arresting authorities with no justification necessary. If you are stopped for jay walking (crossing the road disregarding the traffic signal) the officer can strip search you, and you have no legal recourse.

The US, instead of being the land of the free, has become a country where the government spies on its citizens' phones and email, and can examine their body orifices at will. Most Americans are taking all of this lying down - all it took was a 9/11 to knock the stuffing out their supposed love of freedom.

PS: You can find the US Marshal Service directives on body searches, etc., from 2010 here:
http://www.usmarshals.gov/foia/Directiv ... arches.pdf

PPS: Here is a news-story about aforementioned US Supreme Court decision allowing strip searches for anything:
http://www.npr.org/2012/04/02/149866209 ... -offenders

What US has done is legally bring Abu Ghraib practices inside US and there is no outrage in the community.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Dec 2013 10:33

I still think lifting barricades due to the parkinng lot issue in DC is not retaliation for DK arrest. Its stupid of India to wait three months to act when the US had thrown open the parking lot in September.

So where is the retaliation for DK arrest and humiliation?

Is it the liquor permit cancellation? Are the US folks habitual drunkards that this measure hurts them?
Or asking salary details for Indian employees of US embassy personnel? Shouldn't Income Tax people have such details every year?

So where is the retaliation?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Dec 2013 10:35

From Shekar Gupta's oped looks like LKA put those barricades despite MEA advice in 2001.

he got paid back for the kindness.

habal · Post by **habal** » 21 Dec 2013 10:37

Dipanker wrote:And yet Debyani's case is 3rd one in almost as many year. First it was Prabhu Dayal (?), then Mehrotra, and now Debyani. Got to be the maids?

these folks are very ambitious, and most speak very fluent english unlike sangeeta. So once they are taken to English-speaking countries, their ambition can get the better of them. And then it becomes mandatory to file charges against employer to entertain asylum request abroad.

Katare · Post by **Katare** » 21 Dec 2013 10:41

[edited]

User warned for language and glee at an Indian woman being violated by US authorities.

ramana

You didnt see problem with those words when Philip wrote them? i just repeated them in my reply and you come back at me barking warnings? If u have done your job or controlled the yahoogiri here i would not need to counter them wud i?

You personally encourage certain type of behavior and ideology of members who use most vile and aggressive language but when it is confronted you come running to protect your flock. Ith's shame ramana!

Some moderator you are!

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 21 Dec 2013 10:42

ramana wrote:What US has done is legally bring Abu Ghraib practices inside US and there is no outrage in the community.

Instead of questioning Indian cultural attitudes as some idiots on this board have done, the right question would be - what is it about American culture that allows for practices like government-mandated "orifice searching" to be acceptable, when in most civilized parts of the world including India they are only applied under very out-of-ordinary circumstances ?

One possibility that seems to follow logically is that many Americans by the time they attain their twenties are quite used to penetration of their various bodily orifices in the "normal" course - and therefore the government also putting their hands in does not quite shock them as much. Any other theories to address the issue ?

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 21 Dec 2013 10:42

The US justice system has a conflict of interest with its legislative system. BOTH are based on elections. what tht means is that posts for Sheriffs and above in the Police Dept (== SP of a region in India) will be an elected official instead of a career policeman (can be both). The same is the case with most DAs.

You can imagine the election plank : Scare the people of something (usually blacks, crime rate etc ) and say I will provide security. This scaremongering leaks into legislative elections, where the candidate who promises to "finish the bad guys" gets elected. So they keep imagining security risks and keep adding laws, which are never rolled back. As a result on an average a person would commit at least a couple of felonies a day. In fact there is a book on the same subject and if you are planning to spend sometime of your life in the US, its worth a read: http://www.threefeloniesaday.com/Youtoo ... fault.aspx

Anytime a white politician of a predominantly white county/district mentions "strong on crime" as one of his goals if elected it means that if you are non-white, you are gonna get screwed. This is true in US and in Canada. So majority of the blacks and hispanics are in prison for felony crimes (and that means they cannot vote, which means it amplifies the value of a white vote)

THis has gone to such an extent that there are now "constitution free zones" in the US, where the federal govt. can do whatever the eff they want with no consequences. Here are more details: https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights-c ... e-zone-map

US is fast moving into a police fascist state. What white poors and white commoners dont know is that they will be coming for them next (after finishing off the colored ofcourse). It is already happening to a small extent and growing exponentially. Its just a matter of time before this place is lost to full fledged fascism.

symontk · Post by **symontk** » 21 Dec 2013 10:43

US passport with a retrospective date is the ultimate trump card US has. That Indian Attorney knows about that. If its there, Indian diplomat will be in jail for sure

Folks who think US cannot do that are not in this world, they are in some other universe

You cannot stop any country giving passports to anyone in the world. Its an age old practice

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 21 Dec 2013 10:50

Tweeple r claiming DK was on Iran Afghan Desk before she joined Nyc Consulate.